Trap Trinkets and Skills: Darkest Dungeon Discussion
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- This video explores what trinkets or skills may look good at first, but are actually mediocre or bad in practice.
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Playlist: • Darkest Dungeon Tier L... - Ігри
Bola should have been a stun move. It just makes so much more sense since bolas are literally used for restraining!
Fun fact: The original idea for Grave Robber Solo was Poison Dart -> Shadow Fade and watching them die of old age.
But then i discovered she cant.
I know you said in your last video that this wouldn't be about in-dungeon traps, but I still clicked on this video thinking "ooh! A video about trinkets for disarming traps!" lmao
Okay, but point blank is actually interesting if you run two highwaymen in the front endlessly point blanking the front rows, and stunners in the back to stun the back row for the first turn. You can melt the front easily enough that you can force the back rows in worse positions.
You're still wasting turns getting rid of dead bodies with that strat, but I think WD+Occultist+HWNx2 might work
@@user-tv2bk2ul9t Occultist has a clear corpse and pull skill, so yea that would be needed for this team, to not waste time shooting corpses in rank 1.
I went out of my way for the restraining padlock, I've been bamboozled
I did too at one point, don't feel bad
Same here. I think part of it is that the stress feels bad, and 40% sounds like a lot, but '3' isn't, especially when you're not transforming many times a dungeon. I think number games did the bamboozling more than than the trinket itself.
transform and restraining padlock is for us poor (or purist) men like us who don't have access to broken key.
We can't make Abomination a stun bot with just Padlock of Transference, considering his base stun chance is lower than other characters. Putting that trinket on him, would be same as putting 10% stun skill chance common trinket on any other hero who can stun
This might be my favorite UA-cam channel. I don’t know how to describe it but your voice and personality PERFECTLY fit your commentary. Well done 👍
Thank you for the compliment
Marks are a trap which is quite sad. You want to use them against bosses otherwise they are tempo loss, but most bosses have multiple actions per round, so the mark is wasted.
21:00 Battle Ballad is also better at stress healing because you crit more often. Just one battle ballad is enough to keep me at 0 stress for most fights.
I was surprised to see Pick To The Face in the list, but then I started thinking about how often i actually use it and turns out that its a common skill for me to use but only in the early game when I still have to run bad teams because I still don't have many heroes or gold to spend on upgrading, so I find myself needing the heroes to be more versatile and occupy positions that they might not be the best suited for.
Because someone has to go on rank one and that lady... That lady has a pickaxe!
Pick to the face is the superior move in some situations. Particularly in CoM. It's good vs the Thing when he's got 80% prot, and vs the Sleeper's Harald which she can usually one shot and can't be blighted easily.
The obvious reason - stun skill chance feels so bad is because it's in fact not -10% or -20% stun skill chance. If you have an enemy with 90% stun resistance, your stun with 140% base chance goes from 50% to 40% with -10% (which means you have 20% less chance to stun an enemy) and to 30% with -20% (which means you have 40% less chance). So the minus stun chance doubles at 90% stun resist (which is to be expected at later levels).
The reason those trinkets are traps is because it reads as "you have 10% less chance to stun enemies" when in reality it's only that way if an enemy has 40% stun resist. Which is almost never the case. In reality your stun chance doesn't go from 100% to 90%? it goes from 50% to 40% or something. Or it goes from somewhat reliable 60% to a coin toss of 50%.
A high speed healer also has the benefit of possibly saving a character from a bleed/blight proc deaths door check in those dire situations
Exactly right
Same with slow arbalest. It's 2 different scenarios, in one, your character is slow which means he goes after all the guys that set him up for his "big move", but that just means he also goes after all the enemies. In other scenario he is fast, which means he gets to go before the necessary set up, but hey, there's always a second turn, right? The set up doesn't go anywhere.
As for the healers, the best speed for a dedicated healer is either when your healer goes before anyone else in your party, so you can save them from blight/bleed proc or if the healer goes after every enemy made their turn so you can react to the situation. But the second option is worse because any speed buff or debuff can mess the turn order up.
I have been starting Highwayman in rank 3, and Vestal in rank 2. Highwayman is usually faster regardless of the SPD roll so Advance goes off, Vestal is where she needs to be then, and riposte is up.
i kinda fell into the Sacred Scroll trap once. And then I started to use it only in one occasion: the Courtyard, with dazzling mirror. Scroll gives massive healing, and mirror negates the stun penalty, leaving a net of +10, which is good enough. The damage penalty stays, but it is compensated by speed bonus from the mirror, allowing her to just stun something. And on top of that, you get a minor stress reduction. BUT, even there it is not very safe, because sometimes in Courtyard you meet non-bloodsucker enemy parties, where you get no bonuses from the mirror. So yes, a risky trinket.
I love the jazz music in the background while you describe this.
i wonder if pick is any good against a certain statue.
Great video mr. shuffle! i caught myself falling into some of these traps even after i've been playing this game for like 6 years now. but you didn't metion the biggest trap in this whole game, which is actually enabling musketeer!
"Today's video is going to be about traps in darkest dungeon, and I don't mean the kind you find in hallways"
Uh oh
"I'm talking about a kind of thing that looks good at first..."
UH OH
"...Get your mind out of the gutter!"
"...then you find out it's a boy and suddenly it's looking even better..."
I've finally gotten around to playing Darkest Dungeon and your videos have been a huge help!
Thank you for going over this information on "traps" , because I never even really thought about the items being a meh or even about the s skills as you have pointed it out💖
Expose is pretty good for endless harvest tho, especially for the horses if you can't kill them fast enough before they Stealth. I don't feel like there's a better kit for endless than pierce, adders/aoe thingy, guard break and expose. It gives too much utility against the miller and the residentsleeper boss. Then I change it most of the times. Still useful tho.
For me transformation skills (I also like to use that Lamia mod) are mostly as a "oh shit" button. As Abo is a great stuner, Lamia is great stress and hp healer, and mostly I dont use and dont rely on their monster forms as main skills. But sometimes shit might get out of hand and all fire power I can get is realy needed.
Swap your mentality around. Transform is a lot of tempo. Use it early, destroy an enemy that would stress you for the same amount and untransform turn 2. That's it. If you need to stun it and sink even more damage, you can just kill it. Run % damage on your abom and you'll see tremendous benefits when he transforms. He has one of the highest base damage (non-transformed) in the game. Transformed it's ridiculous. Base 30+ and crit for 60+ at this point. Not a lot of enemies likes receiving his Rage.
i think flag trinket is still good.
So flag:
if afflicted - he gain +25%dmg, +3spd, -20 dodge. So trinket gives him back his dodge chance at deaths doors. Which helps him survive death's door and heal
Trinket gives him +20% dmg if stress above 85 (which is pretty much afflicted.
Martyr seal is good as well, put both on and you will have afflicted flag at death's door:
- +25%dmg, +3 spd, and -20 dodge if rapturous
- +20% dmg and +7%crit if below 40%hp
- +20%dmg, +5acc, +2spd, +20%stun, bleed, blight, debuff resists from death's door
- +20% dmg. +20dodge, +10%deathblow resist from eternity collar
- +60%dmg, +14%crit, +12deathblow resist, +15max hp from martyr seal.
That puts his, initally, lowdmg attacks to a level of decent dmg + bleed + survivability
13:33 Pick rains all manner of Savage Hell on the Thing from the Stars
expose is also good in endless harvest went running duo shield breaker impale comp.
Your music choice is top tier.
I still find myself running HWM rank 2 cos most backliners aren't that flexible. Like come on, i know he can fight from anywhere but not everyone can.
Put him on rank 3 and make him faster than position 2 "backliner"
@@lubomirsalgo7638 iv definitely thought about doing that but sometimes he still gets outrolled by the rank 2 and screws your comp up on the first turn. So the choices are still limited
I agree with your take on bright tambourine. I think it's only use case is on probably on endless harvest.
hey shuffle, im new to the game and your guides have really been helping me out and getting into the community so I'm not sure if you'll see this sbut thank you
15:48 I use my Highwayman as a Hacksaw. Stab with Advance then Point Blank Shot any poor schlub who was pulled up front. Back & Forth, back & forth. Also, Tracking shot sweetens the Damage... Nothing survives more than two cannon blasts...
Pick to the face is situational. That, and her two ranged abilities are so underwhelming that I'd rather just run pick. Pick, Fade, Lunge, Darts. Thrown dagger has a case, namely instant damage over the blight damage of darts, but I find it to be underwhelming, and would rather just design the rest of my team with my backline-targeting weakness in mind.
Im new to the game, just got it in a sale. In my experience sounding helmet is *fine* on bounty hunter if you’re running 2 of them. That way one does big damage while the other sets him up and does disruption as you said. Still, you’re right, uppercut and come hither are 2 of my 3 favourite moves in the game, the third one being solo on jester
Darkest dungeon just got put on the game pass! New sub here I’m sure there’s plenty more to come, awesome content!
Thanks for subbing :)
I could make a whole 3 hour video absolutely dumpstering Wounding Helmet and how much I hate it
i like point Blank shot, especially on the level 1 dungeon where you can often one shot the frontline but once you are on champion level dungeon it can definitly be a trap. The bright tambourine +2 is not amazing but i feel like the stress heal warp the fight in such a big way (stress dealer are not a priority anymore) that I take it anyway however I understand that dodge/crit can be better especially if you abuse stalling.
Crits on Jester are really significant for stress healing, since the initial hit recovers a bit of stress, but then Jester's post-crit buff increases the effectiveness of the Inspiring Tune on the next turn.
Also, hey, now we know in what way Highwayman falls off in late game.
Courtyard traps are the best cause they only bleed you and don't stress you out. Either that or they summon enemies
Thick showing he's in the "nighttime ambush is just free loot" camp
@@ShuffleFM it is tho, if you play torchless especially you just don't prevent ambush if u r ok and not on champion
I only run pick on grave robber if I am going for thing from the stars
Can you explain how torch works. Like if you turn it off to zero at the end of the fight will you get more loot?
Yes. Any time you are in lower light the game draws more loot for you. Because of this you can snuff the torch right before you kill the final enemy to increase your loot gain. It's better to take extra torches and do this a couple times each dungeon, but it does take planning. If you are on PC press ctrl+shift+left click on the torch icon at the top to do snuff it to 0 light immediately.
You can do this while the enemy is in its death animation, as long as the torch is out before the loot window pops up, so if you are fast enough you can do it on reflex.
i thought this was a video about trap disarming! lol
Didn´t expect pbs at all but you make a really good point
It's a tough one to classify because it is a lot of damage in the right circumstances, but ultimately building around using PBS turn 1 or 2 is ill-advised.
Hey Shuffle, what are the songs you used in this video?
ua-cam.com/video/5mgYnwhM4eg/v-deo.html
The issue Expose has is an issue most anti stealth skills have. Why run that when you could run a cleave move instead?
Great video!
But what's that music? Was super relaxing and would love to listen to it outside the video too.
I just Googled royalty free jazz lol
@@ShuffleFM
Oh 😅
chill piano lounge jazz is always a win
absolutely agree on the fast healers. I'd rather stun or clear an enemy out turn one and end the fight quicker than spam healing at the end of the round because my party got hit by 4+ attacks.
"But what if one hero has to take 4 attacks after my party went??" Yea theoretically thats a risk but if you set up your party right the chances of this happening AND being a life or death situation are really, really low.
I'd rather have my healer go first on the next round then last on the first.
I won’t say point blank shot is a trap since the use of that skill is to move a way from rank 1 where he lose most of his damage ability. HWM biggest trap is grape shot. That skill is pure thrash because of poor acc and most of the time you will miss. But the game give you this skill at the beginning and it’s text sound so good - at crit debuff and deal aoe damage .
I remember running on my first trap in dungeon, not gonna lie, I thought that was a beautiful girl.
Someone had to say it. I'm glad it was you
@@ShuffleFM :D
I'm gonna go and commit a Prophet
@@namenotloading I'll be plucking them with you bro
Sometimes it takes a pretty man to be a beautiful girl...
Captivate spam is actually pretty solid if you have marks. Without marks, it is just a worse Adder's Kiss that doesn't need dancing.
Adder's: No damage penalty, 110 acc, 9 crit.
Captivate: -25% damage, 105 acc, 8 crit, 60% mark damage bonus.
Usually I just run Cap alongside Adder's in case speed rolls screw me and I don't want to Pierce.
Notably, for quirks and trinkets, Captivate is ranged while Adder's is melee.
If you are trying to impale spam with double SB starring Musket Ball or something, Captivate will get the boost.
Nice breakdown :)
Hard disagree on SB's expose. Mostly because late game it melts any size 2+ enemies with crits. That extra crit chance translates into more stun chance, DOT chance, move chance, pretty much everything you need.
It's also pretty much the only way you get DOTs on Thing from the stars since it negates the +speed it gets on reaching low health, and you'll want to be running SB against thing anyways.
SB also has obsidian dagger which grants +40% debuff chance to expose so it's almost impossible to miss a debuff with it.
I think that's a great rebuttal to expose. TFTS is such a jerk, and I forgot it doesn't purge debuffs each turn. Looks like I need to try a dedicated expose build.
Seems like im a bit late to the party, but still:
I have to disagree about Bola being a bad skill to use on the Arbalest, here's why:
The 2 first skills to choose are basically a no-brainer, you take Sniper Shot (thats why she's here in the first place) and Bandage. That leaves 2 more to pick.
I find Supressing Fire almost unusable just like you pointed out (tho i LOVE to cheese Prophet with dodge+SuprFire while i collect 7.5k gold for free :D ), so thats out.
Her Mark is underwhelming to say the least, and i find it a generally worse idea to mark with her (for herself or others) instead of the other classes. (In my recent Torchless-campaign i find myself often bringing her to the Weald with a rank-2-Occultist. In almost all fights vs a Giant i stun the Giant turn 1 while i try to kill any small mobs like wolves. Turn 2 the Occultist can mark the Giant and the almost always slower Arb can try to kill the Giant, if maybe a Hellion or other hard hitter also crits, the Giant might not even get a turn... anyway i digress ^^)
Rallying Flare is quite situational. Clearing stuns or marks would be mostly relevant at the start of a fight, however that means Arb has to move between enemy stuns and your stunned heroes, a situation that rarely seems to happen. Clearing invisbility, aoe even, would seem great. More often than not i find myself not being able to capitalize from that, as the most dangerous invis enemys usually have high speed, so that by the second turn of my Arb they would be visible anyways. Arb also tends to be my primary backline dmg, so other heroes capitalizing of the 1 turn where enemys are visible sooner is not a given, either. (ok to be fair, i might undersell Flares usefullnes here, but it definitely is situational)
I used to run Blindfire on her, however i almost never found a good use for it. If i get suprised, it always seemed to be a better idea to fix my position than to blindfire ... maybe in a team with lots of dancing skills, blindfire could buy time for the other heroes to fix the formation, idk... .Of course, it also allows her to hit rank 1 when there is only that enemy left ... but here we come to Bola:
Bola allows her to hit rank 1 reliably. Sure, the dmg is not great. However, bursting rank 1 is almost never necessary (maybe with the exception of collector). Bola allowes her to finish of any weak/wounded mobs that happen to be at the front (wolves etc), even better so since it hits 2 spots. Also, as her ACC tends to be high enough anyway, i find myself itemising her mostly for dmg and crit. That means, even her Bola-dmg is substantial. But here comes the best Part:
Bolas crit-rate is +6%, vs +9/22% on Sniper Shot and +4% on Blindfire. But since it hits 2 targets and her base crit (+buffs/items) is huge, her chance to score a crit and thus relieve stress is always higher than her other moves vs non marked targets and sometimes even better than Sniper Shot vs a mark. This effect is further ampified, as critting a corpse does not yield the crits benefits, UNLESS you also hit a viable target with the same attack. This means, she can have her double crit chance even against 1 enemy as long as there are still corpses.
In essence, Bola allows the Arbalest to clean up weak frontliners when they are scary or after recovery, while being a substantial stress relief through crits. It also has little compettitors for her skill slots.
Nah. Never Bolas, besides one courtyard mission (but Arbalest isn't great still). Flare, Heal, Sniper Shot and Suppressing Fire/Blindfire depending if you're front-to-back or tempo on the clock.
I don’t run Pick to the Face simply because I can Shadow Fade to set up Lunge instead
You don't set up Lunge. Use it when you need and finish the combat. If you need to setup Lunge your comp isn't working. Lunge should come naturally as an extent of the character, not something you're forcing in because you want it to work.
@@OK-sd3lp it comes naturally.
That’s why I’m doing it
@@noahandrulis9077 Pick to the Face bypasses PROT, which is extremely common. Thing is, it covers all options. Shadow Fade is only good if you're struggling, which you shouldn't aim at.
@@OK-sd3lp pick has a debuff on damage severe enough that throw dagger deals more damage to most enemies. Plus you also have Poison Darts to bypass Prot via Blight. The only reason to run Pick is if you want to stay in rank 1 for a turn. Shadow Fade + Lunge also one-shots most normal enemies, prot or no prot
@@noahandrulis9077 Poison Darts is slow. Don't be stupid. Use Pick to the Face. I said the thing is to cover all options. Just read the advice when it is given. You have an opportunity to learn. Take it.
Siren and the countess are traps too 😂
When you talked about Grave Robber, even with the armor piercing buff, is pick still not worth it taking?
You should always have it on. The issue is leaving GR in place to spam pick is usually not good, especially compared to lunge or poison darts
@@ShuffleFM not even on situations where AP could benefit more than Darts ? (I.e cove crab or thing from the stars)
@@yourpal4l I mean... early game it's kinda nice in the cove and weald as the pelagic champions and fungal scratchers have high prot, so in that case it can be a saving grace IF you don't have the shieldbreaker DLC... but come on redhook, -50% damage? why not have it at most -25%. At least it's still better than fleshing daggers though.
Edit: I'm an idiot, pick to the face is -15%. I do though think pick is still good against thing from the stars in it's final phase.
@@yourpal4l Those are exceptions to it.
I usually start HWM in rank 3, double Duelist's Advance target the 3rd position, Point Blank him back, repeat
With point blank I personally disagree if you have lots of reach but trash frontline damage then point blank is good but if you have a leper that’s when point blank is not as good a choice because you already have good frontline damage and you don’t need the point blank howver the duellist into first can still hit some of the back liners so it’s not that much of a trap and it can be better then 3rd position highwayman in certain scenarios and I find way more success with frontline highway man then the backline one but that’s just my thoughts and keep in mind I’ve never finished the game
You read arbalest's marking skill wrong, you read the dodge debuff which only 2 rounds however the mark itself lasts 3 4:45
Gotta disagree on the bit about the bright tambourine. First I don't think it is an accurate comparison when talking about revenge or shadow fade as both of those are skills which take an action and are only beneficial after you catch up where as the BT is instantly beneficial. I've heard you say that battle ballad is Jesters best skill and I must agree. Thing is there aren't any trinkets that buff buffs. So other than that Jester is recovering and this helps with that more than any other trinket + no down sides. True Jester makes stress management easy baseline but there are times when the extra -stress comes in handy (endless, boss fights, bad luck, saving $ by bringing stressed character with Jester.) If the stress ever actually is hard to manage this trinket also helps jester stress tank a bit too if you keep your other characters lower in stress than jester.
Solid response :)
The skills are beneficial every turn. You do not catch up. You are going for a prolonged fight when you are using them, and not setting them up is resulting in a net loss since you need to compensate elsewhere for the lack of judgment of not clicking the right skills at the right moment. Do the maths. Leper gives back the skill in 2 turns lmao. You didn't do the math I am pretty sure. You probably suck a bit XD.
Airblast/Musketeer shouldn’t be slow but SLOWER then your team
Never again say suppressing fire is bad! It counters so many bosses that I'd rate it borderline broken.
For real. Taking away their crits adds a lot of consistency to decision-making
@@akaroth7542 I see suppressing fire as a late-game blinding gas. The issue with stuns in the game is that you can only stun targets half the time. With Suppressing fire, Accuracy debuff can work every turn. Basically its a move that you need build a lot of dodge chance on your entire to see its benefits. I kinda see arbalelist as more of a support character than a damage character. I think sniper shot in general is noob trap for simple fact that bounty hunter is better pay off mark character than she is. The other reason is that her slow speed and reaction moveset with healing requires you to slowdown fights and easiest way to do that is to stack -accuracy/dodge.
Occultist trap? Any healing trinket is lost on Occultist, I'm never going to run him again with a healing trinket.
Y no trap tier list tho...
(Still a good video though).
I keep expose on primarily for the nightmares cos iv been dumpstered on by 4x stealth snakes before. Im never taking it off until i cleared the nightmares.
Another reason i like to keep expose on is cos it sets up mah boi Jester's finale by moving him from rank 3 to 2
The nightmares are the primary purpose and setting up finale for free is a nice secondary effect.
Human boss+Planned Takedown+ Wounding Helmet=gross damage.
Very situational and not worth it majority of the time IMO
Hound master?
Who really out here running Abom or Arb🤨 like their whole class is a trap and not the right kind🌚
I used to feel that way too but recently began changing my opinion.
Eh Arb is overhated. She's a good support who's got good damage if buffed by a trinket and is good at cleaning up back ranks and healing on other turns where damage is less important. She just needs to be built into a party who works well with her.
She's too much of a choir to work with honestly, you have to go all out on either Damage or Healing to get any decent performance out of her
@@KonoGufo shes too slow for ger damage to matter unfortunately.
She'd be good if she was faster.
I've done well with both Abomination and Arbalest.
My Abomination would switch back and forth between Frontline damage and back line control / stunning, and paired with another good front liner an Abomination can chew through a lot.
The arbalist is a little tricky to use, but paired with houndmaster and bounty Hunter for a mark team becomes a beast capable of doing massive damage, while also stunning enemies or weakening them from time to time.
Hi
Also anecdotal, but when I run sacred scroll I also feel like her stun capability is nerfed to oblivion. Typically anything that encourages a very specific kit is actually less effective overall.
Well said
You can slot it in if you run the Vestal for her all around utility kit (destealth, double heals and judgment). She doesn't need to stun if you make her do damage and have a Bounty Hunter stun in her place as an example. Vestal deals decent (not good) damage un vs Unholy, which is something you can toy with.
@@OK-sd3lp oh for sure. Her utility kit is also fine, but imo more stuns are better overall.
Controversial opinion I kinda like bonk vestal in ruins. With hand of light and her innate damage bonus she can actually crank out some bruiser level numbers
@@jakobgillman7058 No. Stuns are only good if you lack speed control and you can't reliably finish the combats really quick. Stuns are valuable, but if you kill all enemies within the first 2 turns in champion missions, you don't need stun. Stuns are nice for recovery and disrupting specific enemies. You don't need 4 of them. Half of the roster doesn't have a stun available, it's not mandatory. The vestal isn't a dedicated stunned, I've never seen nor did a Vestal with Stun %. I slot healing, the scouting trinkets and some speed on her, but stun % why ? You can run 2 alternative stunners with more reliable accuracy and stun % withtout drawback (like Abom, PD, Bounty, MAA, Occultist, Crusader, Houndmaster).
In the early levels the stun can be valuable, but I wonder what's your math take on the enemies dying. Pretty sure you could contribute to killing them faster with a proper rank 2 vestal.
no time stamps
Its a shame they made abomination so boring to play
You are not seeing it correctly, the Sniper's Mark mark lasts 3 rounds, the Debuff lasts 2 rounds.
You are always off on your calcs. DD rounds up (ceiling) any decimal to whole numbers. Jester with bright tambourine heals 12 stress +20% = 14.4 which rounds up to 15 so it gives +3. Because of rounding, the bonus is practically the same as +25% which makes it better than it looks.
This is why Chirurgeon's Charm and Protection Stone are way better than they appear. The charm can +1 any heal even one with base heal 1 (level 1 Battlefield Medicine).
With Sacred Scroll, any time your vestal heals and rolls a 4 it becomes 5.32 rounding to 6, but try it with a +25% trinket and the 4 rounds at a whole number, 5. When you roll a 5, both the +33% and the +25% trinket reach 6 with some decimals, and both produce a value 7.
Divine comfort with +25% is 5-7 (crit 10-13) and with +33% 6-7 (crit 11-14). As for Divine Grace with +25% 10-12 (crit 20-23) with 33% 11-12 (crit 22-24) 8% makes a difference.
Or in case of Protection Stone, your 5% PROT prevents at least 1 damage from any attack, ie heroes take 0 damage from Swine Wretch or Swine Drummer instead of 1.
The debuff lasts 2 rounds, yes, that was my point. Suppressing fire as well.
No, I'm not always off on my numbers. I know DD rounds up, I never said it did not. BT tune heals for 14. Go test it. It's the odd one out. I've even said multiple times in videos and on stream that something like protection stone is great specifically because it shaves 1 damage off of basically everything.
You're fine to disagree with my assessments, but don't say I'm wrong on the facts when I'm not.
wait-wait-wait. So you mark+debuff target with -20 dodge, so you can land your attack. But your mark is 3rds, debuff is 2rds. Which means you have an enemy at the end, that has 1rd mark and no debuff.
Let's say you targeting high dodge enemy. Land mark, reduced dodge, got 2 shots. Now debuff is gone and you have to reapply debuff, even tho mark is still on. Otherwise you'll have higher chance to miss shot entirely. So making mark 1rd longer than debuff is pointless, because you still need to reapply it after 2rds.
Houndmaster for example has it's mark on 3rds and -%prot debuff for 4rds! Which means he can attack unmarked target that still has debuff and get some use
@@romanpyatibratov4361 Yes, and you can still get bonus damage on a Marked target that has no Dodge debuff.
If hitting high dodge is a problem for you, I advise to use trinkets, Men at Arms / Jester to buff, and upgrading skills.
Mark skills can be resisted or outright miss high dodge targets.