The ultimate Crosby Stills & Nash shoot-out: Analogue Productions Atlantic 75, MOFI One-Step & UK OG

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 8 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 47

  • @jamesmilton-willmott7593
    @jamesmilton-willmott7593 6 місяців тому +2

    In some ways I’m glad my system doesn’t have the ability take adjustments to this level so I don’t have to think about them and just enjoy the music.
    Another great video though Dave and it’s great to understand how certain aspects can change the sound with regard to turntable setup.
    Now what I’m really waiting for is your comparison of the new Atlantic 75 David Crosby- If I Could only remember My Name to the Mofi and the original.
    I currently have an original American Monarch pressing (which is a little beat up) and the mofi.
    If the Analogue productions is better then I will order straight away and sell the Mofi.
    What’s going to be interesting with this comparison is the Mofi was ‘apparently’ cut purely in the analogue domain with no digital transfer!
    Bring it on 😊

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      Glad you enjoyed the video James. To be honest, as if it's not obvious enough, I too just want to enjoy the music and so I do have to be 'in the mood' to do these critical comparisons and make videos. In a way, this channel is an excuse for me to drill down to what is my favourite pressing of any particular album, in order to thin out my collection (which has long passed fitting on my record shelving). Although, it has to be said, that's not going so well, hence I've now got four copies of this album on vinyl.

  • @revelry1969
    @revelry1969 6 місяців тому +3

    In my comparisons….i really enjoy the details in the mofi. It is not lifeless to me. I didn’t find it dead. It sounds very hifi and clarity for days. Most people are not used to hearing it so clear and I think this is part of the situation. Our ears are used to that older sound. Honestly. I love the mofi. I found the A75 to be too heavy in the bass. They all sound good. Also, if you do dynamic measurements the mofi is more dynamic. It feels there is more compression on the original and A75. Compressing it rounds the corners. Which may be pleasing to ears that have listened to it for 50 years. I think mofi was very refreshing. The clarity is the true performance and recording. Warts and all. I would say this is just a different way of experiencing it.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      I can well understand why some / many people might prefer the MOFI. Thanks for feedback.

  • @DrDavidMLevy
    @DrDavidMLevy 6 місяців тому +1

    Interesting that knowing about the DSD step seems to make a difference in perception.
    Thanks for the care to take.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      I'm not certain that it is specifically the DSD step that makes the difference here, but it has a more 'clean' clinical nature which to me could be described as a bit 'digital'.

  • @spacehopper999
    @spacehopper999 6 місяців тому +2

    Thanks for an interesting review Dave. I believe that VTA makes a substantial difference to the sound. I only set mine every 6 months or so, I hope I'm not too OCD! It does change a little as the cantilever and suspension ages. I make the adjustments with the same track on the same record each time using headphones. When the setting is too low, the bass goes flabby, when too high its too lean. I listen to the vocals, once it is spot on they have punchy dynamics and beautifully rich and holographic at the same time. The difference can be only 0.2mm. I hope this helps.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      Your description of the sound is spot-on. It's the snapping into sweet, solid 'holographic' focus I listen for as the ultimate goal.

  • @jansplinter-t5v
    @jansplinter-t5v 6 місяців тому +1

    Very good Dave. I like the original the most . The AP is indeed more clear but less organic and natural on my turntable. Perhaps this is because of the quality of turntable and arm I use.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      Thanks Jan, I agree with your feelings about the sound although when critically dialled in the AP did become more natural sounding, very much like the original, but definitely with more clarity. That's what I meant by the comments about "from the first notes..." It really was startlingly obvious and the comparison between the three was starkly illuminated: the AP is very close to the original, just with more clarity (better vinyl, 45rpm etc), the MOFI was very different sounding, super clean, almost polished surfaces rather than an 'organic' texture, the spaces 'filled' with a black void rather than 'air'.

    • @jansplinter-t5v
      @jansplinter-t5v 6 місяців тому

      You have to listen to the Electric Recording version. IMO and on my system this one beats the USA first pressing and all the other ones

  • @LifelongMusicJunkie
    @LifelongMusicJunkie 6 місяців тому +2

    As an enjoyable listen without paying attention to every bit of nuance, the Mofi suits me just fine. Like yourself, it is costly to get these from the States (Canada for me) and since I have paid that premium already, I will not be adding the Atlantic 75 on top of that. I only listen to the title every now and then so I retired an older Rhino 33rpm version I had and just play the One-Step. Cheers

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +2

      The MOFi, in its own way, sounds phenomenal. Which is best is entirely subjective, I've just tried to explain the differing characters...

  • @preservedmoose
    @preservedmoose 6 місяців тому +2

    Interesting stuff - I have a tri-planar but I almost never use the VTA, even though it is relatively easy to do.
    In fairness, the vast majority of records are 180g or thereabouts so my thinking was that it would not be too far out.
    However, I'll need to have a play around...

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +2

      Nice. I like the Triplanar very much. I came very close to getting one when I went for the Glanz.
      The degree of change does depend on stylus profile: longer footprint (line contact, shibata) makes more difference, spherical makes no difference at all.
      When I did have the facility to adjust easily (a you can on the Triplanar), I did have perhaps two approximate settings: one for the majority of my albums (70s, 140-150g), and one for the thin 80s pressings. I'd certainly have a third setting for the 200g audiophile pressings around today. However once you get into it, you'll aim for that exact spot which is not difficult to dial in if you can adjust during play. A few 1/100ths of a millimetre can make all the difference.

    • @preservedmoose
      @preservedmoose 6 місяців тому +1

      @@DaveDenyer very interesting - my cartridge has a micro ridge stylus, I believe, so there should be some change. Yeah, I agree with you totally in that, realistically, I would want to be able to just dial in the VTA before playing the record and therefore would probably settle on two or three settings given the weight of the record.
      I'll try it out though and thank you for the advice :)

  • @SimonC-z8y
    @SimonC-z8y 6 місяців тому +1

    As a side issue, I have tried cleaning supervinyls with an ultrasonic machine, and find it thins the sound and reduces detail. The opposite to standard vinyl. So maybe you're hearing that too?. It's a kind of sterile sound that ensues.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      Hi Simon, Thanks, that's a really interesting observation, I will take note of and investigate this (do you notice this with 40kHz cavitation only? Have you tried 120kHz cavitation?). However what I have noticed is that Supervinyl does not respond the same as regular vinyl on my AFI Flat 2 record flattener. To the point I no longer attempt flattening Supervinyl - which is a pain because so many MOFI One-Steps arrive warped...

    • @SimonC-z8y
      @SimonC-z8y 6 місяців тому

      @@DaveDenyer I noticed doing wet n vac cleans that supervinyl surfaces remain kinda sticky for longer (ie drag on goat hair brush when rotating) and seem to need more soaking and scrubbing. This is important to me because I have noticed that when the brush glides with minimal friction the sound quality improves. Using 120khz.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      @@SimonC-z8y I agree about the friction / feel relating to sound. I too notice this, during the Loricraft stages. I can 'feel' other a record requires longer cleaning etc.

  • @automatedelectronics6062
    @automatedelectronics6062 6 місяців тому +1

    Not sure if you realize it, but the AP and Classic Records 200g 45rpm versions were pressed from the same stampers. The CR version was pressed by RTI, on a premium vinyl, but the most important part is that RTI had better QC than QRP(where the AP version was pressed).
    In comparing the OG, Mofi and new AP pressings, you should have included the CR version. As far as the OG, you might want to get the American pressings, which were pressed at multiple pressing plants. From the time period, the U.K. pressing were a bit better than the U.S. pressings.
    Myself, I have an OG early pressing by Monarch Records. Monarch didn't use the best vinyl mix, but what I noticed when I compared the CR 45rpm to my OG was that my OG was brighter and had a wider frequency spectrum. After owning a bunch of 200g pressings, it seems that the heavier vinyl absorbs the sound dynamics and the 45rpm versions duplicate the OG dynamics the best. The main advantage is less surface noise. You have to listen to the 200g records at a higher volume to uncover the OG dynamics.
    As far as equipment goes, you are over the top. If you want to hear the records as they were intended to be heard, you should first start with the turntable and cartridge that the people who make the audiophile records we buy use. Most use the Technics SL-1200 series with the Shure M97xe(Shure stylus preferable). Chad Kassem uses 2 Technics SL-1200G's mounted with the Shure cartridge. He does A/B comparisons. In the QC department, They use Technics SL-1200's and 1,000's with the Shure cartridges. They also have the Audio Technica Technics clones onsite, as other record manufacturers also have.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      Hi, interesting observations: I did realise that the Atlantic 75 uses the same metalwork as the CR 45rpm release. I didn't include my 33rpm CR version as I'd already established that I'm not too keen on it. I'm not so sure it's the heavier vinyl. I'm more of the opinion it's the whole process. I generally prefer the 'life' of OGs and would typically trade some surface noise for the more 'dynamic' feel.
      As far as RTI vs QRP QC. I've found really poor QC from RTI in the case of MOFI One-Steps. They are nearly all warped and don't flatten without some visual and sonic trade-offs. With normal vinyl though, RTI are fine, from my experience.
      As far as my equipment goes: I don't consider it over the top. There have several audiophile friends who have far more costly turntable set ups than mine, but most are blown away by how my system sounds, even with a 1950s mono LP. I certain only don't only play "audiophile LPs".

    • @automatedelectronics6062
      @automatedelectronics6062 6 місяців тому

      @@DaveDenyer Yep. RTI has screwed-up too, but not as often as QRP. When you catch it right away(and I have had problems with the Mofi and Craft Records one-steps), Music Direct replaces them right away, without questions.
      Classic Records exchanged one of the four 200g 45rpm discs of "CSN" , pressed by RTI, because of a wrinkled label. I wouldn't accept a defective record when I spent $50. for the set. Because of problems with pressing 200g discs is one of the problems why RTI stopped pressing 200g discs. CR had to go elsewhere.
      QRP has had a long learning curve about pressing 200g discs and also with just pressing records, period. Atleast when CR issued their 200g albums they were pressed on one-sided discs. If there was only a problem with one side, they didn't have to throw away a 2-sided disc when only one side had a problem.
      It's not easy using resurrected freshened-up vintage record presses. These record presses were worn out by the early-80's. New is new only once, They still haven't realized, like a growing number of other record-pressing plants, that it might be wiser to start buying new, more-modern record presses. Even URP is replacing their vintage record presses.
      In my opinion, vintage equipment often stands out, compared to new and new audiophile equipment. My old Pioneer QRX-949 is my favorite. But for home-theater, I've had to add modern equipment and have a totally separate system(but using a vintage turntable and speakers).
      Most current turntable manufacturers have forgotten the advances made in the past, like "S" and "J" style tubular tone arms(which the tone arm on my 1948 Capehart flip-over record changer has). Thank goodness Technics didn't change their "S" style tone arms on their current best known and loved turntables.
      Other current turntable manufacturers have chosen to make "Frankenstein" and "kiddie-looking" turntables. Some have realized "S" and "J" style tone arms may be better and have added them.
      Sorry about writing another book!

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      @@automatedelectronics6062 not sure if you’ve seen any of my earlier videos: My usual turntable (a model designed and released in the 1989s) is currently having its motors and power supply serviced. Hence borrowing (temporarily) the new Clearaudio, with easy to dial-in vta, which is why I discussed this subject in this video.
      The tonearms on my 1980s Master Reference turntable are S or J shaped (a Glanz and a Thomas Schick), the Miyajima cartridges are very ‘old-school’ low compliance designs…
      Ps. I think it’s worth noting that Clearaudio still provide service for a 40+ year old model. There aren’t too many companies that would do that.
      Cheers.

  • @michaelschultz1125
    @michaelschultz1125 6 місяців тому +1

    I agree with your assessment. I was disappointed with the Mofi, but liked the Atlantic 75 version,.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      Cool, thanks for the support Michael.

    • @dossierzoeker5539
      @dossierzoeker5539 4 місяці тому

      Quite the opposite for me. For me the AP75 45rpm is one of the worst in the Atlantic 75 series.

  • @VIDSTORAGE
    @VIDSTORAGE 6 місяців тому +2

    Hello again Dave ..The MOFI verdict is 50 50 , you can dislike it as much as you like it ..I wonder if the DSD sterilizes it a wee bit / side question--Have you ever been much into The Climax Blues Band ? ,I know that they were another English band of the classic era and I have always liked them a lot ..Their music is high quality class..

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      Hi Nice Dawg, I agree: I can easily see why many people would love the MOFI, I've got several friends who like that 'super pure' sound.
      It's hard to say how much the DSD step affects the sound, but thinking about it: how different DACs vary so massively in sound quality, then very very clearly, digital to analogue conversion isn't transparent. So, adding an A to D stage, and then a D to A stage certainly isn't going to be transparent either. It changes the sound; sure, the engineers can work on the sound in the digital domain in ways that are impossible in analogue, but it is a different beast, simple as that.
      Not familiar with The Climax Blues Band, will have to look them up. Cheers.

  • @neilgaydon5430
    @neilgaydon5430 6 місяців тому +1

    The VTA might solve one issue, assuming no potential compromised arm rigidity issues adding vibration. However, given the different materials that make up a turntable; bearing, platter, motor, belt, arm, suspension, plinth, cartridge etc, even the record itself, all expanding & contracting & vibrating at different rates due to varying temperature and humidity at any given time of the day while the stylus is trying to read 0.0014" vinyl playback is a compromised equation that is factually never correct. Vinyl playback - a subject that finds or leaves you with mental health issues😄 Due to its inherent imperfections I set to the mean and forget and enjoy the music. I guess for others they like the hobby of adjusting.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      Hi Neil, I do agree with this. That's why I switched to the Glanz, but knowing the set up is not absolute, I felt I ought to revisit this rather than critique an LP for something it's not guilty of...

  • @davepounds8924
    @davepounds8924 6 місяців тому +2

    So you adjust the Tracking Angle for every record you play!!! Isn’t that going a little OSD??? That would drive me insane as adjusting the tone arm every single time isn’t easy If you’re happy doing that though that’s fine!!! Enjoy your reviews!!

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      Hi Dave, no I don't! I did used to do that when I had a Clearaudio VTA lifter which makes the process so ridiculously easy. However I do have some friends that do do this, and there is no doubt that without properly dealing in, you are not getting the best out of a record. It's as simple as that. The finest adjustments make a difference and so without the ability to adjust during play I'd have no hope whatsoever of achieving the desired results.
      I just felt when making comparisons or statements such as 'this pressing has too much bass' or whatever... Unless I accurately dial in, I'm being completely misrepresentative of a particular record's quality.

  • @ianrobertson8514
    @ianrobertson8514 6 місяців тому

    It is a fascinating topic. One related matter that you did not mention is that all of your very valid logic applied to the mechanics of VTA are totally compromised when anything other than a totally level piece of vinyl is placed on the turntable. Let's be honest, there are very few that are completely flat. That being so the elected VTA becomes something of a compromise no matter how much in-situ live adjustment of the VTA can be undertaken.

  • @mrfabchild4188
    @mrfabchild4188 6 місяців тому +1

    I think one of your ceiling lights is on the blink ?

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      Sorry about that. I only noticed after filming…

  • @ergloo6660
    @ergloo6660 6 місяців тому +2

    Can I make these adjustments on my crosley? 🤣😂🤣😂

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      LOL 😂 I’m sorry to say: “NO!”

    • @charlesgund4812
      @charlesgund4812 6 місяців тому +1

      The only adjustment you can make is with a hammer 😂

    • @mikel4797
      @mikel4797 6 місяців тому +1

      😂😂😂​@@charlesgund4812

  • @ergloo6660
    @ergloo6660 6 місяців тому +4

    Thank you I generally find MOFI's sound flat & lifeless

    • @theheepster
      @theheepster 6 місяців тому +1

      Generally it's to hard. The early Mofi's in the 70s and 80s, mostly pressed by JVC in Japan and often Laquer cut by Stan Ricker sounds very good. Various more recent pressings, such as the Dire Straits- or Santana albums, also sound excellent and not lifeless. I think that after Mofi Gate, a lot of things that were praised before are now talked badly.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      I've got a lot of 70s and 80s MOFIs which I've become to think of as the definitive versions (particular favourites of mine: Genesis - A Trick Of The Tail, and Yes - Close To The Edge). However they do sound different. It all depends on what is the goal. I personally tend to think the original 'first press' is the goal as that's what the artists / engineers made themselves at the time. Before 'MOFI-gate' some of us may have wondered how MOFI achieved such a clean sound. Now it is not so mysterious... I try to judge everything on its sound, digital or analogue. However I don't like being made a fool of which I feel is what MOFI were doing before the truth came out.
      I think Dire Straits' On Every Street sounds sublime.

  • @Plextortion
    @Plextortion 6 місяців тому +2

    Being so concerned with sound quality, I'm sure you might agree that your content would sound a whole lot better if you used a small mic on your shirt.

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому

      Thanks for your comment. I've tried a separate mic, but didn't like it, however I will continue looking for one that I do get on with.

  • @jerrycoffey1782
    @jerrycoffey1782 6 місяців тому +2

    The MoFi was the worst sounding????

    • @DaveDenyer
      @DaveDenyer  6 місяців тому +1

      In some ways yes, in other ways it was the best sounding. What I'm trying to do is describe their respective qualities...