Saint Patrick: First Missionary to Ireland or Not?
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- Опубліковано 16 бер 2017
- Saint Patrick was a real guy...a 5th century bishop to the Christian communities in Ireland. But the notion that he was the FIRST Christian missionary to Ireland is actually not true. Christianity was in Ireland decades before Patrick's career.
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Check out St. Patrick's "Confessio:" www.confessio.ie/etexts/episto...
Photo Attributions:
Celtic statue: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ce...
Celtic bowl: Credit to Malene Thyssen. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Leprechaun picture and Parade picture: Credit to Daniel Ramirez at Waikiki St. Patricks Day Parade
Lullingstone Villa image: Credit to Captmondo commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
Lullingstone Villa Fresco: Credit to user Udimu. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lu...
Celtic Viking pic: Credit to user Noah Sachs. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
My Mom, third generation Irish American, used to say that St. Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland and she said proof is that there are no snakes in Ireland. She also said that St Patrick converted the Druids to Catholic along with the king and all the people of Ireland. We lived in a suburb of Boston at the time. We never went to those crazy celebrations in Boston on St. Patrick's Day. Instead we went to mass where the Italian priest would lead mostly Portuguese and Puerto Rican parishioners in Irish hymns whilst wearing green vestments. Then we'd go to my grandparents house for corned beef and cabbage and of course potatoes and my grandfather went on at great length about how wonderful the IRA was and why we should all pray to St. Patrick for his intersession to spread disease and famine among the English. He did so while giving my Dad dagger eyes. Dad was protestant and mostly English. Afterwards we kids would have a contest to see who could draw the best leprechaun. And of course Grandma would repeat the oft told story of how St. Patrick explained the trinity using the shamrock. I was for the longest time confused by the concept as I always thought that the trinity was Jesus, Mary & Joseph, probably because my Mom and grandparents always chanted "JESUS, MARY & JOSEPH!" every time they got mad about something. Every spring shortly before St Patrick's Day we'd buy shamrock plants at a local nursery and when the frost stopped we'd plant them in the garden. Every autumn they'd freeze to death as our climate while further south than Ireland was somewhat more frigid for some reason. These days I live in Florida and interestingly we have here growing wild a south American variety of shamrocks with pink flowers. They pretty much grow everywhere except where I want them to.
I never thought he was first, only that he must have been the best lol!
I can't leave without recommending "St. Patrick:The Musical" on the LutheranSatire channel.
In Walt there is a very similar cobfusion where everyone thinks St David was the first Christan in Wales. I don't know who was the first but I know St Illtyd was earlier. St Illtyd just happened to be my primary school, which is why I know of him.
Love these. thank you for making them.
The American Episcopal Church, according to the teaching of that church, was not actually instituted by the Church of England, but because of attitudes of the colonists towards England, the Apostolic Succession of Episcopal bishops was instituted from the Church of Scotland. But according to that same source, the first Christian to arrive in England was Joseph of Arimathea, whose tomb the body of Jesus was laid in. Joseph of Arimathea was some sort of shipping magnate, and took one of his ships to England. I believe the stone that is under the throne that the Kings of England are crowned on in Saint Paul's Cathedral was supposed to be placed there by Joseph of Arimathea, if my memory serves me...
there are many scholars who consider Palladius (soldier) and Patricius (nobleman) to be the same person, and interesting to note, both are honorifics, not necessarily names. the name usually linked to both is Succat. the title Palladius is said to have been sought and granted, in Rome.
I would not call it "many". It was a theory but there is no evidence beyond the fact that both names begin with P. There really isn't much you can say about the historical Patrick except to say we are reasonable confident he existed based on the two documents he left behind.
Are the Iberian/Gaulish/Briton forms of those gods' names Romanized? Because the -us/-ia suffixes strike me as decidedly Latin, rather than Celtic. I could be wrong, of course. It was just a point of curiosity.
Are those Irish versions right? I thought Brigid was pronounced like “breed” or something
Actually the celtic languages were quit like Latin.
@@emmanarotzky6565 In Modern Irish it's Bríd. In Old Irish Brigit.
The name is derived from Proto-Celtic *Brigantī and means "The High One", cognate with the name of the ancient British goddess Brigantia, the Old High German personal name Burgunt, and the Sanskrit word Bṛhatī (बृहती) "high", an epithet of the Hindu dawn goddess Ushas. The ultimate source is Proto-Indo-European *bʰr̥ǵʰéntih₂ (feminine form of *bʰérǵʰonts, "high"), derived from the root *bʰerǵʰ- ("to rise").[20][21] Xavier Delamarre, citing E. Campanile suggests that Brigid could be a continuation of the Indo-European dawn goddess.[1]
I'm not 100% sure but I am aware that -us endings were a thing in Celtic languages for some nouns.
The Primitive Irish form of the name Congus was *Cunagossus
Lugus may have been how the name was in the languages but I am aware that the continental version of Ogma was Ogmios.
Usually, masculine nouns would have ended in -os (like Greek) but I do think some noun classes ended in -us (I'm aware they did in Primitive Irish and Greek, tho not a Celtic language did too)
@@emmanarotzky6565 All of the Irish pronunciations are painfully wrong in this video, as I have come to expect.
And Happy St. Patrick's Day to you too!
Most likely Christianity already existing on Ireland long before St. Patrick. But St. Patrick is the one who responsible for the widespread and ultimately domination of Christianity on Ireland.
Alexlaza
- In a letter to the Northumbrian warlord, Coroticus, Patrick stated that - “In the days of old the laws of God were already well planted and propagated in Ireland. I do not wish to take credit for the work of my predecessors.” And if you look up the Synod of Whitby and the quartodeciman controversy you find that the Irish/Scottish Church was not Roman Catholic.
I really enjoyed this one and thank you Andrew!
I remember that St Patrick was known for chasing 'the snakes' out of Ireland, which I later learnt was a metaphore for getting rid of the traditional Celtic religions.
I'm intrigued with the pic of the erstwhile Patrick, in authoritative garb, holding up a shamrock. I suppose this is meant to be the shamrock with which Patrick reputely demonstrated the concept of the triune godhead. I suspect it improbable that this ever occurred, considering the Celtic peoples already had a triune goddess and an icon, the triskele, which adequately incorporated the concept. Using a shamrock would have been a bit of intellectual snobbery upon Patrick's part and I'd guess he'd have been laughed off the stage.
Nice video! Here is a question: I recall reading about a Pelagius that was accused of heresy (IIRC Arianism). Is this the same one? I believe the dates kind of correlate here...
No. The missionary to Ireland is Palladius, not Pelagius. Pelagius' heresy concerned the nature of sin, not the nature of Christ
Not that much? He did leave us an autobiography, which I have read, years ago. But you have mentioned it.
St. Patrick was from St Davids, Wales
These earlier Christians could possibly be the followers of Joseph of Arimathea? Do you have a video on that?
Maybe St. Patrick gave out free beer to gain a larger audience?!
I’ve done ancestry, 23andme, heritage, you don’t get links to thinks like the heralds of the patronymic names. Growing up thinking my name was created after St Patrick evangelized Ireland. Through my fathers father, I have a lot of genetic ancestry through 23andme showing the areas that would be consistent with the kingdom of osriage and other groups associated with the actual peoples of the last name which would eventually be fitzpatrick. I don’t know if I’m related to the fella who claims to have run into st Patrick and came to my ancestors local area, but I’d like to think so since at least based on my direct line I have genetic ties to that specific area.
James Charles Roy's 1986 book "The Road Wet, the Wind Close" has a great chapter on how Patricius was probably more important than Patrick.
*Palladius, not Patricius.
Also, both the concept of a trinity and of holy water are pagan, pre-Christian Celtic concepts, which were integrated into Christianity.
Ok..propagandist. Nice try. We don't even have a single written source by celtic pagans and neo pagan crazies are already spinning wild dumb conspiracy theories.😂😂
What do you think of the idea that the legend of the expulsion of the snakes is a metephor for the expulsion of other christian and/or gnostic sects? Other proposed evidence for this are the 'Sile na Gig'
It's most definitely a metaphor, snake=Lucifer, pagans often being accused of devil worship, ergo "driving the pagan religion from Ireland" ... It's way too cold here for snakes.
Yeah Boston! I live here too!
I’m nearby in Peabody
This verse talks about the saints of God so its helpfull to know how to be a saint of God.
Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
If you go to some places in Ireland... Tara's Patrick Statue would be an excellent topic for a St. Patrick's Day video. It's "cursed" according to local legend. (I surmised that's got to do with conflict of a dying religion vs a new, modern religion that Patrick brought to the Emerald Island.) Anyway, it's considered bad luck to directly look at this statue, so maybe you don't wanna see a picture? Visitors to Tara must walk past this statue and a small Catholic church to get to the Hill of the High Kings in Meath, Ireland.
So the story goes, Patrick drove out the "snakes," BUT there never were snakes in Ireland. I suspect this means he drove out the *Triskelion,* the old religion's spiral marks that can still be seen on the rocks at Newgrange. My hunch is that his statue on that land in Tara got cursed due to conflicting regions, old tribal ways vs new, modern ways that Patrick represented.
I'll say one good thing about Patrick, despite whoever he upset that cursed his statue, he supposedly converted the "savage natives" of Ireland peacefully. He wasn't one of those Catholic missionaries who did unthinkable things to convert the "savage natives." As far as I know he didn't go around killing people to make his point, but *Patrick seemingly must've upset someone at Tara,* and I'd love to know more about that, but I don't think I ever learned that story. Also, no way was Patrick the first missionary there, but he might've been the first _nice_ missionary to visit Ireland.
*Patrick most definitely brought more than just faith (modernization) because the shamrock was almost certainly a sacred plant long before Patrick got there, and it became his symbol.* The Irish people who liked him _really liked_ him.
After passing Patrick's statue and the church, The Hill at Tara isn't just one hill, it's like ripples on water's surface, a hill surrounded by circles - raised mounds - very tiring to make it to the middle, but that must've been the point to making those mounds, good defense. Someone very important lived there or held some kind of court there. The vaguely phallic pillar there amid these mounds is kinda creepy, I won't lie, but it's there - obviously a marking of what was once some great place. It was obviously well defended at some point, and it may have been a gathering place for kings or chiefs to meet for who knows how long.
Also, it's still considered irreverent in Ireland for farmers to cut Hawthorns there - people still leave thin strips of cloth tied to the Hawthorn bushes at Tara, cloth pieces carrying prayers (or wishes) to old/new divine beings. This isn't a Catholic tradition. It's thought to be much older than that.
I visited over the St. Patrick's Day weekend many years ago, and they take it seriously there. BUT that old religion - *Newgrange is older than the Great Pyramids of Egypt and Stonehenge!!* - left quite a lot to admire without much explanation, sorta like other neolithic and prehistoric places like Stonehenge, for example. Newgrange has a lottery to go inside once a year on the Winter Solstice at sunrise: Newgrange's inner chamber was either a tomb or some kind of ritual place of neolithic people of Ireland, *possibly the ancestors of the folks that Patrick later "drove out" of Ireland?* I've heard that the inner chamber walls look like melting gold for a moment, but others describe the Solstice sunrise as just bright gold light. A few entries are given away each year to see it; winners must make their own arrangements to get there; you cannot pay for the experience, as I understand it; you have to win the lottery. They allow people to apply for the lottery entry online. It's ancient and amazing, I hear it's beautiful beyond words, though I hesitate to worsen my chances by mentioning it here, though they get like 30,000 applications per year. I've stood inside the chamber, but not on the Solstice; I've never seen the liquid golden walls in person, but there's video of the light's path through the chambers on UA-cam. Newgrange is an undeniable sign of a people who had relatively advanced knowledge of seasonal cycles and some astronomy. Many speculate that this was a place of worship or some other religious ritual.
The old religion includes legends of Finn MacCool (definitely not the original spelling) who ate a magic salmon, something about golden apples, and the mists (which I can totally understand whyyyy the mists are something of legend and magic there, mists roll in off the Atlantic, the mist comes and goes without warning, it's confusing especially at night if you're lost, it's easy to see why so many of their legends involve people who go missing in the mists; also the cliffs are insanely steep for a people who used their thick Guinness for sustenance on long treks), as well as people who age forward and backward!! It was a LOT to unpack in one trip, but I'd love to hear more!
For more information about Celtic religions, see Asterix.
Read in the ortodox book about st. Patrick
How were slaves viewed and treated around this time?
T.F. O'Rahilly's 'Two Patricks' theory suggests that there was a sycretism of Palladius and Patrick
more interesting really is Celtic Christianity in general and Irish Christianity in particular. the diocesan structure of the early church seemed not to be the most important structural development in Irish church history; Irish monasteries were much more important, so much so that bishops were actually named by monastic abbots...
Fun fact the Irish had trouble reading the Latin Bible , so they added spaces between the words . Giving us spaces between words in language .
Brigid is pronounced “bridge-id” 😩😩
It hurt me too
In English, yes but that's an anglicised form of the name which rendered in Modern Irish is Bríd but in Old Irish form would have been Brigit, for which his pronunciation isn't too far off (the "g" would have been lenitied into the voiced velar fricative and the "r" would have been rolled)
1:19 Lugh, Ogma, Brigid.
You say that Palladius in 431 precedes Patrick by 'at least a few decades'. But at least one source gives a date of 432 fit the start of Patrick's work in Ireland. Now it's true most historians believe in a later date, and that that data may even have been purposely chosen to downplay Palladius's role, but I would still say that 'decades' is not the low end estimate of the difference - it a be less wrong to consider it the high end.
No, he said *Christianity* preceded St Patrick by a few decades, not Palladius. There are no reliable dates for Patrick's arrival in Ireland. The 432 date comes from the book of Armagh which was written 400 years later. The date 432 was invented by the writer because they were familiar with the Chronicle of Prosper of Aquitaine. They just picked the next year possibly to diminish the perceived legacy of Palladius and increase that of Patrick. For the Bishopric of Armagh, Patrick was a source of legitimacy and therefore power. They wanted to be the center of the church in Ireland.
I just thought St.Patrick cleared away snakes from some Irish village.
thebeasthatfeasts
And I heard the “snakes” were actually pagans.
Snakes are not native to Ireland, so I dunno
Yup the snakes represent paganism/druidism and withcraft summoning of demons
Is there any validity to the claims that the first major Christian presence in Ireland and Britain was that of Coptic Orthodoxy?
Highly doubtful. Almost by definition Coptic Christianity is Egyptian because that was where Coptic was spoken (and where Coptic liturgy would have been recited). Pelagian Christianity seems to have been popular in Britain though...so perhaps it spread to Ireland too. That's my hunch.
Thanks for the insite, I remember reading that the Isles monastic orders was founded by half a dozen or so coptic monks but I'm thinking that might be coming from the Oriental British Orthodox church to give them some sense of a pre Latin-rite claim of antiquity.
I'm not a Christian let alone a historian of Christianity so I never know what is fact and what is romanticism. Another great reason to be subcribed to this channel!
Yeah, I'd need to see the evidence for Coptic monks in Britain. As far as I know, no archaeological evidence with Coptic script has been found there. Mostly vernacular Latin.
It's also claimed he drove all the snakes out also🐍🐍🐍
I knew that
You and Dan Carlin should do some things together.
When the commentator uses CE you know he's not a Christian.
St Patrick was Welsh.
David Keane
Cumbria is where he was birn, so he was British, as are the Welsh, and the Bretons, and. ...
@@christopherellis2663 well he was a Briton which means something different to the modern term British. Nevertheless what it really means is that his native tongue was something much closer to modern Welsh than modern Irish and he was educated in Latin during the turbulent times of the collapse of the Roman Empire.
Kind of weird to call him Welsh centuries before there was anything that could be called Wales
He was Romano-British and was probably fluent in the local Latin as well as the local Brythonic language.
He was Romano-Briton from somewhere called "Banavem Taburniae" or something like that.
Last I recalled it was unknown where in Britian that was but was likely somewhere along the western coast
As Ireland was never a part of the Roman empire, I was taught as a child, that the first Christians fled to Ireland to escape the Romans and that they spoke Arabic. Personally, I've never beleived the myths surrounding Patrick's presence in Ireland.
There were 2 christian churches, Rome and Ireland, Rome won and we had to get in line, we have never forgotten as our church could have been number one.
Why dose he look like a god damed anime character
Palladius was sent by the pope at the time, and they both constantly undermined Patrick's missionary, there were Christians in Hibernia before Patrick landed there because the Scots of Hibernia (irish) used to do land raids in Briton and take slaves (which happened to patrick) Christianity was already in Briton and made it's way to Hibernia with the slaves and they spread the word in small bits because they were christian, small few missionary tried but didn't succeed. Eventually Patrick after escaping back to Briton, Got his calling from God to return to Hibernia and spread the gospel among the pagans, he did and after a while he had massive success. The pope and Roman Catholic religion didn't like that and made up ridiculous unbelievable tales of Patrick to make his story seem unrealistic. They also spread lies that the pope commissioned him to go to Hibernia when the truth is Patrick had nothing to do with Rome or the pope.
Hahahahahahahaha
Well at least we can still be certain the blessed Saint Patrick drove the snakes from Ireland.
I would like to see more on the history of Islam that really dig deep like how you go into the controversial things in Christian history. Thank you!
Christian were in Ireland North Germany and Normandy in year 1 and before. There were 2 St. Patricks who were in Ireland 50 yrs apart.
I would like to see a link please!! AND wow.. 2 of them...
Hello is this Ireland??
No this is patrick
St Patrick's day is the celebration of the Irish people, culture and society . It is the single greatest national celebration day in existence - nothing else comes close to it's international success .( not 4th july, not bastille day, not Australia day .....)
Do you have info. on where the Celts began and when? I watched a very lengthy documentary, years ago, that placed the very first Celtic site in a cave in Northern Austria, according to archaeological facts, around: 700 BCE. In the documentary, the Austrian artifacts showed the people had a king and religious practices. As we know from the Old Testament of the Bible, the Northern tribes of Israel were captured by the Assyrians in: ~741 BCE and taken north, over the Caucus Mountains and then abandoned to continue their journey northward. Seems to me like there's a significant link between these original Celts and some or all of the Northern tribes of Israel. Any research on this topic?
Linguistically the Celtic languages are a part of the Indo-European family which, the current academic consensus has it being spoken around the Pontic-Caspian Steppe during the Neolithic period I believe.
(Material) Culturally, the earliest sites are in Central Europe with the late bronze age Hallstatt Culture
I wish you would have included while he was known for running snakes out of Ireland. "Snakes" and serpents was a derogatory term used to label pagans and more specifically the Druids. St Patrick was no hero or saint by any means. Pagans were forced to convert to Christianity and would be murdered if they didn't. So now we know why there are supposedly no serpents in Ireland. Still have leggless reptiles though.
Just like how St. Patrick was the first to christianised Ireland, the story that St. Patrick hunted down druids was also a legend. The snake story with st. patrick is just purely because there are actually no native snakes in Ireland, and people then started the legend that since there are snakes anywhere else, someone must expelled them away, and that person was st. patrick.
@@gandaruvu according to some family history that has been passed down through the generations among Druids he was responsible for systematically having pagans that did not convert to Christianity killed or driven out to the isle of man and into Wales. Not sure where you did your research but mine comes from a long line of pagans including druids and other shaman.
@@juggaloscrub365 no, the thing is, most pagans and druids in Europe are revivalist movements, that includes druids in Ireland. Druids in Ireland are neo-druids, and their practice is a reconstruction from ancient sources, not a direct lineage.
Here is a source on my comment, which was even backed by a Celtic Reconstructionist: www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2012/03/saint-patrick-druids-snakes-and-popular-myths.html
@@gandaruvu I'll be sure to check that out. I'm going off of knowledge passed down through generations with in my family that dates back to 700. They still live and practice in Ireland. Not neo anything they still practice what was practiced then In The same format.
@@gandaruvu so who were the snakes then?
there where no Celts in the British Isles, British Celts were invented in the 1720's by the London Oxbridge establishment whilst the English all became Anglo Saxons to facilitate the Ascension of George I, this is not the only rewrite or shuffling of British History researched by Alan Wilson and Bram Blackett for over 40 years- ua-cam.com/users/RealBritishHistory -The Druids adopted Christianity cAD37 and even the Roman Church acknowledged this, seems our early Christianity expert does not, which is reasonable since real British History has been continually suppressed as with the Colbern Alphabet - British History in this sense is the Kumric (Welsh) History who were the Britons and Original British, the number of areas this impacts on when unravelled is immense, from the ten tribes, the Trojan Wars, Reading Etruscan writing and Hieroglyphs to the Bat Creek stone, from apostolic Christianity to the Island being wiped out in the 7th Century (think the glassified castles in Scotland) by a comet and more besides - It is no wonder that the British Establishment is destroying Welsh by the teaching of a language thy call welsh but according to welsh Speakers they are having to learn a new language when their grandchildren try to converse with them, many sites with archaeological history as part of hill forts, star maps or other significance are being destroyed as I write, by wind farms, pine/spruce plantings or new housing, Oh it is absolutely verboten to speak Welsh in the House of Commons. I am currently reading the reprinted King Arthur Conspiracy Book (yes they were real about 6 of them but 2 are of note) a current channel is ua-cam.com/users/BritainsHiddenHistoryRoss his company now has the reprinted a few of titles incl the one mentioned. As an Englishman it is massive in terms of the real history of this island - from Julius Caesar having his arse handed to him twice to the reasons Claudius succeeded - and again at this point his capture of the Christian Caractacus, which normally meant death didn't occur and his adopted daughter was married into the British Royal Family, his time in Rome is still marked in Rome in Stone, I believe if I recall correctly Constantine came from this line, and his mother, Helen of the Cross brought back the (a) 'Cross' to Britain and W&B traced its location from the records.
And there is a book on the real St Patrick in their bookstore
"St. Patrick", whose birth name was actually Maewyn Succat, was not part of nor sent by the rising Roman Catholic Church, but instead was laboring under the earlier Apostolic Christian Church's influences and missionary efforts. His missionary efforts in Ireland were prior to the Papal puppet Palladius (who was sent to Ireland by the "Pope" to try to reign the Celtic Christians into Papal submission. Palladius failed and finally fled to Britain after only a year or so failing in his commission there from Rome. the Venerable Bede makes mention of Palladius and his failure within his famous 700s history (written several centuries after both Patrick and Palladius). Bede says nothing about St. Patrick / Maewyn Succat, since Bede was recording (twisting) history as it conformed with Papal bias and the earlier Celtic Church's success in early Ireland did not sit well with Papal propaganda. irishchristian.net/celtic-church-ireland/
Why do you have pope in quote marks? Was he not the real pope?
Having read Patricius' own work, I can only assume that you are just another Protestant twister. ...
"Thanks be to God, you have passed from the kingdom of Satan to the city of God; the church of the Irish is a church of Romans; as you are children of Christ, so be you children of Rome." - Dicta Sancti Patricii, Book of Armagh
Palladius made a big mistake because he built a church and named it house of Rome, Patrick was already there spreading the true gospel and how churches spreading the gospel belong to God, because he (palladius) names it that the Irish didn't trust him and he eventually gave up and left