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Hey, have you done "the gospel of mary" yet? you know the one that "The DaVinci code" mentioned? I know it's fiction, but would be nice to see an explanation on it.
I don't find anything wrong with this video. In genera your content is well balanced and insightful. But there's rumors of Adpocholypse 2.0 - UA-cam is demonetizing like crazy again. That's bad. I hate to pay premiumship for UA-cam only to see good videos stripped unjustified.
It's not jesus' fault no one else had seen the movie yet. A lot of his jokes didnt land well because they referenced pop culture from the future. He would forget not everyone else was omniscient.
In June of 2016, the woman who introduced the papyrus to the world, Karen King, after having defended it for several years finally admitted its probably a forgery.
Yeah, I read the article from the investigative journalist that blew the case open. I made this video a year ago though. Maybe I should do a follow up.
I think a follow up would be good, especially following the Atlantic article. But you could go into the public profile of this, and look at what James McGrath has done on this, saying that "Although the Gospel of Jesus' Wife is a forgery, its content is anything but spectacular or unique. Scholars of early Christianity needs to educate the public on "shocking" authentic Christian texts in order to combat the sensationalism (and high market demand) for forgeries"
Daniel N. Gullotta Good point. I have been meaning to do a follow up but have been lazy. And you're right...there are so many more "scandalous" authentic texts that no one talks about.
Poor women...can you imagine...7 years attacking her...she is trying to save her reputation...so sad how things work..conspiracy is t opposite..goes against t agenda of to many...7 years she resisted...very brave...
Hi, Jesus has died on the cross so that we (perhaps everyone) may be forgiven for our sins (perhaps more). Please accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through him.🙏🙂
What I really like about your channel, is that I honestly can't tell where you stand on any of this. Are you Jewish, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic? Who cares? I appreciate that you focus on the historical & contextual placement of these ancient writings. It's refreshing and engaging, thank you!
It is nice that academic perspectives override any personal convictions that might direct truth for a political or religious purpose. I guess that's why they call them objective.
Sensationalism is easy to sell, and since Christianity is the largest religion in the world, it is easy to sell it. A lot of people consider The Davinci Code as historically accurate, which reveals the historical illiteracy on many.
@@fearlesscrusader The number you claim depends on the Christian sect, if you take out the Catholics as its own religion (which you should, its dishonest not to), Christian's are actually the 5th largest cult. It's funny how Christian's love to come together for the numbers but constantly tell each other that they aren't true Christian's.
@@aathanraan8819 Islam literally does the same thing? So does buddhism, animism and almost alI religions have a sect or different schools of philosphy.
@@marcelszpak1460 And the fact is, Jesus' existence is as certain as any person in the ancient world's existence could be. Whether he was divine, a prophet or whatever else is a matter of faith, but that there was a Jewish preacher in Judea and Galilee during the reign of Tiberius who was executed by crucifixion under the governate of Pontius Pilate (and that a number of people believed they saw alive afterwards) is near certain There's more evidence for the historical existence of Jesus than there is for Hannibal of Carthage, yet nobody disputes that Hannibal existed
@@marcelszpak1460 My point is, if one is going to claim a historical Jesus never existed, then by the same degree of skepticism, one has to call into question the existence of almost every historical figure who wasnt a ruler that commissioned surviving monuments and mint coinage of their likeness and reign. The evidence of Jesus' existence (again, his existence, not necessarily his divinity) is as solid and conclusive as one can get for a non-ruler figure from that period of history.
Coptic isn’t a Semitic language, but is in the same language family. Additionally, the word used in the forgery specifically means, “woman” or “wife.” Sister would be ⲧ.ⲥⲱⲛⲉ, as opposed to ⲧⲁ.ⲥϩⲓⲙⲉ (lit. My wife) in the text.
Well I’m not a “Jesus Fanatic” as one of your other commenters “tried” to say but I DO Love Biblical Archaeology, Love your videos and the way you explain things...
Is it possible that you might do a video on the "Secret Gospel of Mark?" I'm given to understand that it *might* be a forgery, but there's enough awkwardness surrounding it, and the circumstances of its discovery, that it's difficult to be sure. I'd love to know more about it.
@@789uio6y “Fought” in what sense? Like swords and knives and bloodshed, or passive resistance, or what? As for “Radical Jew,” I don’t have a problem with that. Much of what He said seems to fall into the category of the Very Angry Later Prophets who decried their own temple practices and priesthood for corruption and a lack of deep commitment to the faith, so, sure, no argument from me there. If you feel that the sayings attributed to Jesus in the Gospels are not the true things Jesus said, then what do you think *are* the true things He would have said? And do you have a source for them? Preferably a period source, but something more recent with reasoned logical arguments by respectable historians and scholarly types is also acceptable.
I have just recently discovered your channel and am slowly working through it in reverse order. You are doing a fantastic job, enjoying it immensely. Your walk through on the analysis process was enlightening but I was wondering if they were able to test the ink for composition or age. It would be interesting to know and very telling I would think.
@dwellyn - Also, where the inked letters come up to the edge of the papyrus, do they wrap around the edge or are they torn off cleanly, with no ink wrapping the edge? Is that a "tell" or am I barking up the wrong reed?
Carbon dating has been shown to be wildly inaccurate when used on objects of known age. It's basically useless as a dating method, and the premise for the method is invalidated by the fact that the earth's atmosphere hasn't even reached equalibrium.
@@nathanmckenzie904 lol you seem to be under the impression that those are the only two sources from which one could derive the opinion that carbon dating is flawed and inaccurate. Try again.
When I was 12 or 13 (around 2010), I had a Sunday School teacher mention that she was a person who suspected that Jesus may have had a wife (Mary Magdalene) based on some New Testament verses that could be interpreted in such a way. She made sure that we understood that there was not much strong evidence to support this. The 2012 discovery definitely caught my attention. It's good to learn to get a scholarly follow up.
You said that the author of this fragment probably didn't know Coptic and was likely copying from the Gospel of Thomas. You showed how text from this fragment matches up with text from GoT, but said the piece corresponding to "My wife..." didn't show up in the GoT. My first question is, if the author didn't know how to write Coptic, how would they have known how to write "My wife..."? Then it occurred to me that even if the author was copying from the GoT, they still would have to have had some knowledge of Coptic in order to copy and paste the text into a coherent narrative.
I think Mary might have been his wife but I prefer facts and I like how you are interessted in thruth and the science of research... Thanks and if you know more about it tell us cause I’m gonna follow you from now on !!
You did an excellent job, in just a few minutes, of untangling an enormous amount of confusion perpetuated by some MSM outlets. If only more of the MSM stories were written by experts like you to begin with! Anyway -- well done. I have no idea if you still look at comments on 7 year old videos, but, taking a chance: do you read Coptic yourself, or are you dependent on translations? Do you have any idea how many academics the world over can read Coptic fairly easily? (Hmm. "Fairly easily" is not a very precise term, is it?) And of that group of academic readers of Coptic, are many of them also members of the clergy of the Coptic Church (or would it be more precise to say: the clergy of the Coptic churches?)
That fragment may have been forged but from what I’ve heard from several Rabbi’s even back then to be a Rabbi you have to be married. I haven’t come across any documented sources on the subject though and for all I know they could be wrong. It’s an interesting puzzle though right up there with what are the odds that Jesus had no siblings.
I was under yje impression that Jesus did have siblings, and that that was not a controversial understanding. The first Bishop of Jerusalem, James, was his brother. I know that there are many who insist that they must be half siblings, as acknowledging them as full would conflict with their understanding of whether Mary did or did not ever have an actively sexual life, but I think that no 'evidence' from scripture would lead one to this conclusion, whereas references to Jesus's brothers are, if not extensive, at least non-trivial. I'll leave to others to bring up the whole 'what did they mean when they said brother' argument, which I think is a little ridiculous, but I may, of course be either blinded by demonically inspired heterodoxy, or just wrong.
the prophecy of Massiah in the old testament (Torah) says that the messiah (jesus) will live till he sees his sons ..... and this supports the gospel of jesus's wife
Have you investigated Jesus' lost years, before he began his ministry, and what is your view of the Book Of Enoch abd the Apocrypha? I'm constantly seeking truth on these subjects but don't know who to trust.
All people that accept Jesus as their Lord and savior are "betrothed" to God. It is a spiritual statement that Jesus is our Father. We have to learn to discern spiritual from human. humbly...allan
I enjoy your work so far. But, unfortunately, you keep using the word Conspiracy. That word comes with stigma. To most people, it refers to, for example, the crazy conspiracy theorist that wears aluminum foil hats in the '50s through the '70s in America. But, come to find out, aproximintly 90% of those "conspiracy theories" were true thanks to the Freedom of Information Act. It's a "theory," not a conspiracy. The word "conspiracy" puts people who just seek to prove or explore a theory at risk of being looked at as crazy. Then chose to not pursue the truth. At least that's how I see it. What is your opinion?
Isn't it the other way around? It was totally normal for a rabbi to be married. Most all Jewish men were married and married relatively young. It was actually out of the norm for a Jewish man to be unmarried. The only ones not married were those who belonged to strange cults. Jesus may have been in one - the Essenes - but otherwise it would totally be expected for him to be married.
Can't they also analyse the ink, which would help determine when it was written? Yes they can, but no mention of that here. Just a lot of speculation. Maybe this, maybe that. If the ink also dates it, then it's authentically from ancient times. The truth of it, or any other theist fantasy, is still highly suspect.
I was under the impression that in the times of Jesus a man who was called Rabbi was expected to be married and not act like a celibate monk especially as he was well and truely of an age to be married. The women disciples were always there with the men. Remember the vigil at his tomb , it was the women not any of the men. It makes perfect sense that Yeshua ben Yoseph was a married Rabbi and that Mary ( Magdalene) was his beloved
Gospel of Philip, 'Wisdom and Mary of Magdala' (63,30-64,9). 'Mouth' is bracketed because that part of the manuscript is damaged. Citation numbering per 'The Nag Hammadi Scriptures, The Revised and Updated Translation of Sacred Gnostic Texts, Complete in One Volume'. Meyer, Marvin, Ed. HarperCollins, NY NY, 2007.Cheers.
They demonize... I mean demonitize, because you create scholarly, clear and concise videos without the usual flame fanning vitriol and hatred of so many!
Thanks for this informative video. You mentioned Nag Hamadi in your video, and I remember one of the collection being stolen off a professors desk before it was able to be translated. I think it was called the Gospel of John the Baptist. Do you know if any other versions of this book were found? Also wasn't the Gospel of Thomas older than the Gospel of John we find in the bible?
Paul LoPiccolo I haven't heard the story about any Nag Hammadi texts being stolen...but to answer your question about whether the Gospel of Thomas predates the Gospel of John, the answer is a bit complicated: Although both texts are composite texts, Thomas has both earlier and later sources than John. Some of the "Jesus sayings" in Thomas probably date back to Jesus himself, while some of the more "Gnostic" sounding verses date to the 2nd or 3rd century. John, on the other hand, probably dates entirely to the late 1st century (our earliest fragment of John dates to about 130 CE, so its composition was earlier than that). So, our version of John is earlier than our surviving version of Thomas. But both contain sayings that date back VERY early in the 1st century.
Choco Potpot This video was not bad.i think it's best too read the books before judging them.some are not good fake but I did read the book of Enoch and found nothing wrong with it and Some other ones.allways use the bible and the Gospel as a guide.
Yet, there are those with PhD's, that know this stuff more than you, say it's not fake. Why is it so hard for Christians to believe that Jesus was married? He was a jewish male. He followed jewish law to the letter. The law of God says that all males must take a wife and multiply. It's doesn't say "except for Jesus. He doesn't have to do that." I'm a non believer, I don't believe in some all mighty magical creature, but I believe that Jesus did live. I believe he was a good and righteous man, that wanted to see his people live a good life, and tried to fight the powers that were to achieve that goal.
Man, I was hanging on every word and I’m Jewish 🙀🔯 PLUS astronomy is my bag. GREAT stuff! I hope you are working on a historical detective novel on the side.
But didn't you say that there were changes in the book of John changing "May" to Mary and Martha? And that those changes indicated that the Mary from that story was the same person as Mary Magdelene, meaning Jesus spent even more time around her then we thought, increasing the odds that they were spouses or something like that?
Copying every word is such a newb move. First thing I'd want to do with something like this is a linguistic analysis, specifically looking at what percentage of words and sentence structures it has in common with other authors, which is the best evidence of authorship we have.
Why would not our Father not want his son not to know love between a man and a woman. Forgery or not , as a jew Christ would be expected to be married.
kat Mats Non sequitur. Jesus would have been expected to toe the line of the Jewish authorities as well. Jesus being married is nothing but conspiracy land fantasies and barbaric Islamic dreamt up nonsense.
Curious what the ink was made of. If this was someone copy words from a language they didn't know, how did they know the phrase 'my wife' and where to put it? Just curious.
Here are some general questions for the author/narrator of the "ReligionForBreakfast" UA-cam forum: I am not an expert in this field but I like to read and watch videos about it. I am fascinated by your insights and knowledge on the subjects you cover. However, I would like to know more about your background such as your real name and which University Degrees you've attained and if you have authored books related to ancient Biblical Archeology.
In the story of the man blind from birth, he is referred to as Rabbi, but these people also hung on his every word and questioned him, believing he had complete gnosis of Yahweh's spiritual laws regarding the man's blindness. He also healed and did work on the Sabbath in that same story, something a "true" Rabbi would not do (and in fact angered leaders) or preach on a hill, instead of in a Synagogue. There's various indicators of unconventionality here and yet he was still referred to as Rabbi. I am also sure there is process and ritual in becoming a formal Rabbi, of which there is no writings saying Jesus underwent such formal training. He would also have fallen short today, in studying Kabbalah, as marriage and being over 40 years of age being a requirement if one was to take Talmud and Jewish law literally.
Sarah Harris I agree that the story has inconsistencies. BIG inconsistencies. I personally don't think that Jesus ever existed, but this sort of scriptural anomaly and its explanation is always an interesting exercise.
Judaism has no say on how a rabbi has to be married. Judaism doesn't even acknowledge Jesus as the son of God. Judaism is the "words of the pharisees and sadducees" basically
Um...What about Fr. Thomas Brodie's hypothesis that the New Testament gospels are derivative of the Septuagint and a set of Pauline epistles? I just finished Brodie's _The Birthing of the New Testament: The Intertextual Development of New Testament Writings_ and I highly recommend it. I think Fr. Brodie's speculation upon the true nature of Q is inspired. I'm a convert. To date, I've largely been an adherent to Burton Mack's postulated developmental processes, but Brodie's fine points just adds the icing to Mack's cake.
Lesson from the Apocalypse of Blessed John the Apostle , i . 1-5 Hearken , O daughter and see , and incline thine ear : and the King shall greatly desire thy beauty .All beautiful is the Kings daughter as she comes in , robed in cloth of gold. Alleluia alleluia. Mary has been assumed into heaven : the angelic host re-joices. Alleluia.
Thank you for sharing. For my ignorance, It would not change my faith if Jesus had been married. Its only the Roman Catholic Priests that make a big deal of remaining celibate.
Excellent video. However two importants questions have not be asked 1- Who forged that document? 2- For what purpose? Do you have any assumptions about or information?
Thank you for the tip. I just finished to read the long (too long?) article...It is an extremely thorough investigation even when the journalist tries to determine the motives of the forger! The whole section about his pornographic past is mind boggling!!!
Beside of this document being fake. Wouldn't it be likely, that Jesus was married? Was the social status of being married important? Is it likely that historical documents would mention if someone is married or not?
There are so many gaps in knowledge of Christian religion and history in general, anything is possible. Scribes everywhere were putting their own opinions on scripture as they copied texts. Even today people, mostly for profit, come up with unusual theories. The whole research area is underfunded, and just think what wonders might be awaiting in a dank hole in some out-of-the-way monastery or even a tomb.
The message is all about love. That anyone should stand up in this world and say love your neighbor as yourself is the only relevant discussion. What a truly great man.
You seem to ignore the fact that the person who authenticated it in the first place is probably the leading expert in the field. And how long did it take the church to find and pay to discredit her. They have time after time.
I know her personally. The text was found to be a forgery by other scholars, and she eventually agreed. Not the "church" paying anyone off. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show me the evidence that the "church" paid her off.
The irony of your claim is that even if this was an authentic fragment it would still be, at best, a 3rd to 5th century work. Meaning it would prove literally nothing about Jesus. It would be like claiming that the Arthurian cycle is historical proof that there was a king named Arthur who slept with his sister who was a witch / faerie / goddess. I doubt “The Church” would risk tarnishing their own reputation through subterfuge over a fragment that had no hope of actually harming them.
@@ReligionForBreakfast actually the very idea that she was wrong and lesser scholars convinced her is laughable but the evidence of the bribes and corruption of the church is only a distraction from the fact that the church and its believers have provided no evidence that any of the gospels are true. We do however have precedent for the churches corruption and dishonest tactics.
Do correct me if I’m wrong but, Jesus not being celibate would complicate CATHOLICISM rather than Christianity in general. The concept of celibacy is a lot younger than Christianity, and the justification by Jesus supposedly being unmarried himself to set an example wasn’t its original justification.
It is so sad that even now most so-called Christians don't know what Jesus is, what he did, and what he has done since. Anyone who thinks an advanced Master like Jesus had a wife demonstrates to the world that they are also in this boat of ignorance. The truth is not a secret, it just gets rejected or ignored by people who want to believe something else.
4 роки тому
The media always jumps on a story that might discredit Christianity. Fake? They don't care. They'll never print a retraction.
Here's the thing I was raised in church and I am now a atheist. The bible says that jesus was without sin. Its not a sin to be married the bible also says it is better to marry that to sin or burn.
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UA-cam constantly demonetizes my videos. Religion apparently is not "advertiser friendly content." If you would like to support this channel, consider becoming a patron on Patreon (www.patreon.com/religionforbreakfast) or donate at PayPal! www.paypal.me/religionforbreakfast
Hey, have you done "the gospel of mary" yet? you know the one that "The DaVinci code" mentioned? I know it's fiction, but would be nice to see an explanation on it.
well in my country, religion is a tool for political agenda, and that issue already out of control.
I don't find anything wrong with this video. In genera your content is well balanced and insightful. But there's rumors of Adpocholypse 2.0 - UA-cam is demonetizing like crazy again. That's bad. I hate to pay premiumship for UA-cam only to see good videos stripped unjustified.
Some one commented that Christian denominations number over 30,000. Where did they get that number, and is it anywhere close to the truth?
@@stephendickinson7071 it's from an ambitious protestant medical missionary that wrote the "World Christian Encyclopedia".
*Jesus hanging with his buddies tries to be funny, turns to his disciples and in a Borat voice says* My wife... *nobody laughs*
Maybe the full text shows Jesus was practicing his one-liners. "And then Jesus said, 'Take my wife ... please!'"
*Jesus impersonates Borat*
Disciples: *don't laugh*
Jesus: don't worry, it'll be funny in about 2000 years.
Hilaro!!
It's not jesus' fault no one else had seen the movie yet. A lot of his jokes didnt land well because they referenced pop culture from the future. He would forget not everyone else was omniscient.
Waa waa we wa
In June of 2016, the woman who introduced the papyrus to the world, Karen King, after having defended it for several years finally admitted its probably a forgery.
Yeah, I read the article from the investigative journalist that blew the case open. I made this video a year ago though. Maybe I should do a follow up.
I think a follow up would be good, especially following the Atlantic article. But you could go into the public profile of this, and look at what James McGrath has done on this, saying that "Although the Gospel of Jesus' Wife is a forgery, its content is anything but spectacular or unique. Scholars of early Christianity needs to educate the public on "shocking" authentic Christian texts in order to combat the sensationalism (and high market demand) for forgeries"
Daniel N. Gullotta Good point. I have been meaning to do a follow up but have been lazy. And you're right...there are so many more "scandalous" authentic texts that no one talks about.
ReligionForBreakfast Oh talk about those.
Poor women...can you imagine...7 years attacking her...she is trying to save her reputation...so sad how things work..conspiracy is t opposite..goes against t agenda of to many...7 years she resisted...very brave...
The things which I really appreciate of this channel, is that it is based on actual scholarship
actual perhaps but honest that tuff gem to find
Hi, Jesus has died on the cross so that we (perhaps everyone) may be forgiven for our sins (perhaps more). Please accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through him.🙏🙂
@@asdallah2159 God bless!
What I really like about your channel, is that I honestly can't tell where you stand on any of this. Are you Jewish, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic? Who cares? I appreciate that you focus on the historical & contextual placement of these ancient writings. It's refreshing and engaging, thank you!
It is nice that academic perspectives override any personal convictions that might direct truth for a political or religious purpose. I guess that's why they call them objective.
Yes cause it’s just a book . Culturally important but it’s not magic words of god
He worships the Old Gods
@@newaccount3743 Word Gods?
Bless all
Sensationalism is easy to sell, and since Christianity is the largest religion in the world, it is easy to sell it. A lot of people consider The Davinci Code as historically accurate, which reveals the historical illiteracy on many.
KevZen2000 technically Islam is the largest religion but meh
According to Pew Research, there are 2.4 billion Christians and 1.8 billion Islam, so technically you are incorrect, revealing your own illiteracy.
@@fearlesscrusader The number you claim depends on the Christian sect, if you take out the Catholics as its own religion (which you should, its dishonest not to), Christian's are actually the 5th largest cult. It's funny how Christian's love to come together for the numbers but constantly tell each other that they aren't true Christian's.
@@aathanraan8819 Islam literally does the same thing? So does buddhism, animism and almost alI religions have a sect or different schools of philosphy.
Most readers understood that it was fiction, which the foreword actually says.
is this a jesus fanfic?
The new testament is the second fan fiction written. The Koran (Quran) is the third. Mormonism is the fourth.
John itself is a copy. Lol.
@@marcelszpak1460 Not according to the near-universal consensus of even secular scholars
@@marcelszpak1460 And the fact is, Jesus' existence is as certain as any person in the ancient world's existence could be. Whether he was divine, a prophet or whatever else is a matter of faith, but that there was a Jewish preacher in Judea and Galilee during the reign of Tiberius who was executed by crucifixion under the governate of Pontius Pilate (and that a number of people believed they saw alive afterwards) is near certain
There's more evidence for the historical existence of Jesus than there is for Hannibal of Carthage, yet nobody disputes that Hannibal existed
@@marcelszpak1460 My point is, if one is going to claim a historical Jesus never existed, then by the same degree of skepticism, one has to call into question the existence of almost every historical figure who wasnt a ruler that commissioned surviving monuments and mint coinage of their likeness and reign.
The evidence of Jesus' existence (again, his existence, not necessarily his divinity) is as solid and conclusive as one can get for a non-ruler figure from that period of history.
Woah, a 1st or 3rd century Shipping fanfic
Humans never change lol
Actually, nothing new. Those times were full of it
^^^^
The word used for wife in Semitic, languages of that time is "sister".
It takes a very good knowledge of the context to interpret the Gospels.
Wow just like in Tasmania today!
@William Burns even though it's a fabrication, it's still nice to know what the text is actually saying.
Coptic isn’t a Semitic language, but is in the same language family. Additionally, the word used in the forgery specifically means, “woman” or “wife.” Sister would be ⲧ.ⲥⲱⲛⲉ, as opposed to ⲧⲁ.ⲥϩⲓⲙⲉ (lit. My wife) in the text.
@@thescopio4113 ok
That must be what Alabama people write in
Well I’m not a “Jesus Fanatic” as one of your other commenters “tried” to say but I DO Love Biblical Archaeology, Love your videos and the way you explain things...
I SURE AM A "JESUS FANATIC".
so... in retrospect
the synoptic gospels could have been ancient forgeries too because they have lines that are identical word for word
And Borat said onto them “MY WIFE”
I am finding your channel very educational. Thankyou so much for your passion and hard work
Is it possible that you might do a video on the "Secret Gospel of Mark?" I'm given to understand that it *might* be a forgery, but there's enough awkwardness surrounding it, and the circumstances of its discovery, that it's difficult to be sure. I'd love to know more about it.
The biggest forgery is the bible itself. Nothing from the bible is a true jesus's teaching. Jesus was a radical Jew who fought the romans.
@@789uio6y “Fought” in what sense? Like swords and knives and bloodshed, or passive resistance, or what? As for “Radical Jew,” I don’t have a problem with that. Much of what He said seems to fall into the category of the Very Angry Later Prophets who decried their own temple practices and priesthood for corruption and a lack of deep commitment to the faith, so, sure, no argument from me there.
If you feel that the sayings attributed to Jesus in the Gospels are not the true things Jesus said, then what do you think *are* the true things He would have said? And do you have a source for them? Preferably a period source, but something more recent with reasoned logical arguments by respectable historians and scholarly types is also acceptable.
I have just recently discovered your channel and am slowly working through it in reverse order. You are doing a fantastic job, enjoying it immensely. Your walk through on the analysis process was enlightening but I was wondering if they were able to test the ink for composition or age. It would be interesting to know and very telling I would think.
@dwellyn - Also, where the inked letters come up to the edge of the papyrus, do they wrap around the edge or are they torn off cleanly, with no ink wrapping the edge? Is that a "tell" or am I barking up the wrong reed?
Thank u for caring and sharing the Truth brother. Blessings, love n peace b with u.
Thank you for being unbiased and covering this story
I am in possession of a papyrus scrap showing a receipt from the dry cleaners that Jesus used...
I subbed after the 1st vid on DDS. Excellent! (Well Done, to you) it's refreshing to listen to you. Tfs
you're my favorite person on youtube, pls keep the videos coming!!!
+Josbi Thanks!! New video coming next week.
bless! 🙏
I think because it's so old, and all the contradictions in it, the bible itself is a conspiracy theory!
@@scottlouissmith2382 - Nah, nothing so sinister. It is an anthology, a collection of tall tales.
And Jesus said, "fake my wife, please!" I just flew in from Barbalo, and boy are my Archons tired.
Nothing to cause a scandal like the suggestion of a secret romantic/sexual relationship! That's why it's a tabloid staple.
Has anyone carbon dated the ink?
Afaik carbón dating can’t tell you anything that specific. It’s more for placing the ball park within 10000 years or so
Carbon dating has been shown to be wildly inaccurate when used on objects of known age. It's basically useless as a dating method, and the premise for the method is invalidated by the fact that the earth's atmosphere hasn't even reached equalibrium.
@Sanjo Official right, I agree with you. We are saying the exact same thing.
@@elliottray5926 stop listening to Ken ham and Kent Hovind
@@nathanmckenzie904 lol you seem to be under the impression that those are the only two sources from which one could derive the opinion that carbon dating is flawed and inaccurate. Try again.
When I was 12 or 13 (around 2010), I had a Sunday School teacher mention that she was a person who suspected that Jesus may have had a wife (Mary Magdalene) based on some New Testament verses that could be interpreted in such a way. She made sure that we understood that there was not much strong evidence to support this. The 2012 discovery definitely caught my attention. It's good to learn to get a scholarly follow up.
Thank you so much for this summary! This is super helpful for me as a divinity student studying this.
You said that the author of this fragment probably didn't know Coptic and was likely copying from the Gospel of Thomas. You showed how text from this fragment matches up with text from GoT, but said the piece corresponding to "My wife..." didn't show up in the GoT. My first question is, if the author didn't know how to write Coptic, how would they have known how to write "My wife..."? Then it occurred to me that even if the author was copying from the GoT, they still would have to have had some knowledge of Coptic in order to copy and paste the text into a coherent narrative.
So how is this gospel called? The gospel of Dan Brown?
P.S a 'fragment is not a gospel, without other sources naming it .
I think Mary might have been his wife but I prefer facts and I like how you are interessted in thruth and the science of research... Thanks and if you know more about it tell us cause I’m gonna follow you from now on !!
You did an excellent job, in just a few minutes, of untangling an enormous amount of confusion perpetuated by some MSM outlets. If only more of the MSM stories were written by experts like you to begin with! Anyway -- well done.
I have no idea if you still look at comments on 7 year old videos, but, taking a chance: do you read Coptic yourself, or are you dependent on translations? Do you have any idea how many academics the world over can read Coptic fairly easily? (Hmm. "Fairly easily" is not a very precise term, is it?) And of that group of academic readers of Coptic, are many of them also members of the clergy of the Coptic Church (or would it be more precise to say: the clergy of the Coptic churches?)
That fragment may have been forged but from what I’ve heard from several Rabbi’s even back then to be a Rabbi you have to be married. I haven’t come across any documented sources on the subject though and for all I know they could be wrong. It’s an interesting puzzle though right up there with what are the odds that Jesus had no siblings.
I was under yje impression that Jesus did have siblings, and that that was not a controversial understanding. The first Bishop of Jerusalem, James, was his brother. I know that there are many who insist that they must be half siblings, as acknowledging them as full would conflict with their understanding of whether Mary did or did not ever have an actively sexual life, but I think that no 'evidence' from scripture would lead one to this conclusion, whereas references to Jesus's brothers are, if not extensive, at least non-trivial. I'll leave to others to bring up the whole 'what did they mean when they said brother' argument, which I think is a little ridiculous, but I may, of course be either blinded by demonically inspired heterodoxy, or just wrong.
You know it’s a forgery when the sentence cuts off right after the controversial phrase.
the prophecy of Massiah in the old testament (Torah) says that the messiah (jesus) will live till he sees his sons ..... and this supports the gospel of jesus's wife
Alwqas Alwqas: KINDLY INFORM US ALL READERS AS TO THE QUOTE IN TORAH THAT SAYS MASIACH WILL SEE HIS SONS.!
@@canadianchristian2314 Hi ... read this please ...His life will be prolonged (extended) and he will live to even see his children (Isaiah 53:10 )
The jews however do not believe that Yeshua is the Messiah.. that's where we got tangled... so any conclusion derived from this argument is hersay...
Lol, I only recently subbed to your channel (past year or two), and I'm now going through the back catalogue. Baby-faced clean-shaven you is adorable.
Jesus, in a Borat impression: "my wife"
Some times you'll also look at what wording order is written. It's also a very good way to date writings.
Have you investigated Jesus' lost years, before he began his ministry, and what is your view of the Book Of Enoch abd the Apocrypha? I'm constantly seeking truth on these subjects but don't know who to trust.
hlb0111 you probably know the TRUTH now. This guy being pushed buy a darker power. I was bout to subscribe until he told on himself.
All people that accept Jesus as their Lord and savior are "betrothed" to God. It is a spiritual statement that Jesus is our Father. We have to learn to discern spiritual from human.
humbly...allan
hlb0111 Trust the Bible. It wasn't written to 'control the masses' or something; it was written to convey what the disciples saw and heard.
TheGhostrider1959 Were you writing to me?
TheGhostrider1959 I just wanted to know for sure. I know how the canon was assembled. Don't assume I assume.
I'm so glad you eventually learned how to get a haircut.
I enjoy your work so far. But, unfortunately, you keep using the word Conspiracy. That word comes with stigma. To most people, it refers to, for example, the crazy conspiracy theorist that wears aluminum foil hats in the '50s through the '70s in America. But, come to find out, aproximintly 90% of those "conspiracy theories" were true thanks to the Freedom of Information Act. It's a "theory," not a conspiracy. The word "conspiracy" puts people who just seek to prove or explore a theory at risk of being looked at as crazy. Then chose to not pursue the truth. At least that's how I see it. What is your opinion?
can u make a video about gospel of barnabus
Isn't it the other way around? It was totally normal for a rabbi to be married. Most all Jewish men were married and married relatively young. It was actually out of the norm for a Jewish man to be unmarried. The only ones not married were those who belonged to strange cults. Jesus may have been in one - the Essenes - but otherwise it would totally be expected for him to be married.
Jesus had no wife. However if His mission had allowed Him to have one, Mary Magdelene would definitely have been likely.
Can't they also analyse the ink, which would help determine when it was written? Yes they can, but no mention of that here.
Just a lot of speculation. Maybe this, maybe that.
If the ink also dates it, then it's authentically from ancient times.
The truth of it, or any other theist fantasy, is still highly suspect.
Yeah, I was really wondering why we are talking about the brush but not the ink?
I was under the impression that in the times of Jesus a man who was called Rabbi was expected to be married and not act like a celibate monk especially as he was well and truely of an age to be married. The women disciples were always there with the men. Remember the vigil at his tomb , it was the women not any of the men. It makes perfect sense that Yeshua ben Yoseph was a married Rabbi and that Mary ( Magdalene) was his beloved
Gospel of Philip, 'Wisdom and Mary of Magdala' (63,30-64,9). 'Mouth' is bracketed because that part of the manuscript is damaged. Citation numbering per 'The Nag Hammadi Scriptures, The Revised and Updated Translation of Sacred Gnostic Texts, Complete in One Volume'. Meyer, Marvin, Ed. HarperCollins, NY NY, 2007.Cheers.
When I'm rushing on my run
And I feel just like Jesus' son
And I guess that I just don't know
And I guess that I just don't know
- Lou Reed
They demonize... I mean demonitize, because you create scholarly, clear and concise videos without the usual flame fanning vitriol and hatred of so many!
Thanks for this informative video. You mentioned Nag Hamadi in your video, and I remember one of the collection being stolen off a professors desk before it was able to be translated. I think it was called the Gospel of John the Baptist. Do you know if any other versions of this book were found? Also wasn't the Gospel of Thomas older than the Gospel of John we find in the bible?
Paul LoPiccolo I haven't heard the story about any Nag Hammadi texts being stolen...but to answer your question about whether the Gospel of Thomas predates the Gospel of John, the answer is a bit complicated:
Although both texts are composite texts, Thomas has both earlier and later sources than John. Some of the "Jesus sayings" in Thomas probably date back to Jesus himself, while some of the more "Gnostic" sounding verses date to the 2nd or 3rd century. John, on the other hand, probably dates entirely to the late 1st century (our earliest fragment of John dates to about 130 CE, so its composition was earlier than that). So, our version of John is earlier than our surviving version of Thomas. But both contain sayings that date back VERY early in the 1st century.
I have heard of this case. Many people still don't believe me when I tell them this is a forgery.
Possibly because it’s not... or possibly they regard there is no more manuscript on site as highly
suspicion...
@@cheryldeboissiere1851 it is a forgery…. Karen King, the women who supposedly found the script, admitted to be a fake in 2016.
The church is the bride of Jesus Christ.
Thomas Bressler true
Choco Potpot
This video was not bad.i think it's best too read the books before judging them.some are not good fake but I did read the book of Enoch and found nothing wrong with it and Some other ones.allways use the bible and the Gospel as a guide.
YES!! BUT I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED ABOUT JESUS BEING A MAN IN HIS 30'S NOT MARRIED, BEING A GOOD JEWISH BOY AND ALL!!
Jonathan Soko have U read it??
The book of Enoch??
Joe Wright are all good Jewish men married??
The word mouth is a lacuna or unknown break in the fragment so we don’t know where Jesus was kissing mary
@0:57 Your video had my like in under a minute. Hats off to you, sir.
I love this channel.
Yet, there are those with PhD's, that know this stuff more than you, say it's not fake. Why is it so hard for Christians to believe that Jesus was married? He was a jewish male. He followed jewish law to the letter. The law of God says that all males must take a wife and multiply. It's doesn't say "except for Jesus. He doesn't have to do that." I'm a non believer, I don't believe in some all mighty magical creature, but I believe that Jesus did live. I believe he was a good and righteous man, that wanted to see his people live a good life, and tried to fight the powers that were to achieve that goal.
Next release .. The gospel of Mary Magdalene
0:06 WHY DOES SHE LOOKS SO SCARY 💀💀💀
Gospel of Phillip says there was French kissing before there was a France. Cool
Man, I was hanging on every word and I’m Jewish 🙀🔯 PLUS astronomy is my bag. GREAT stuff! I hope you are working on a historical detective novel on the side.
But didn't you say that there were changes in the book of John changing "May" to Mary and Martha? And that those changes indicated that the Mary from that story was the same person as Mary Magdelene, meaning Jesus spent even more time around her then we thought, increasing the odds that they were spouses or something like that?
Copying every word is such a newb move. First thing I'd want to do with something like this is a linguistic analysis, specifically looking at what percentage of words and sentence structures it has in common with other authors, which is the best evidence of authorship we have.
Id love if you did a video on your own personal religious beliefs, they are clearly extremely well thought out and researched
Kerri D same! Please do one
@Kerri D - I prefer not having it spelled out. I do not want to watch future videos always with the constant eye out for bias.
Just because you're scholarly doesn't mean you're allowed to just skip over a perfect Borat reference like that.
1:54
Great explanation.
Why would not our Father not want his son not to know love between a man and a woman. Forgery or not , as a jew Christ would be expected to be married.
Why would he go threw the Trouble of marrying and having a kid if he knew he was going to leave the earth?
kat Mats Non sequitur. Jesus would have been expected to toe the line of the Jewish authorities as well. Jesus being married is nothing but conspiracy land fantasies and barbaric Islamic dreamt up nonsense.
Samuel Appiah because marriage is eternal
And lo, he said onto them, "Take my wife...please."
Curious what the ink was made of. If this was someone copy words from a language they didn't know, how did they know the phrase 'my wife' and where to put it? Just curious.
The Atlantic did an interesting piece on it a couple of years ago. Oh, BTW, Jesus is married/will be married, to the Church. *Runs away
Here are some general questions for the author/narrator of the "ReligionForBreakfast" UA-cam forum: I am not an expert in this field but I like to read and watch videos about it. I am fascinated by your insights and knowledge on the subjects you cover. However, I would like to know more about your background such as your real name and which University Degrees you've attained and if you have authored books related to ancient Biblical Archeology.
Daniel Evjen literally took 15 seconds to find answers to your questions
religionforbreakfast.com/about-me/
Jesus in scripture is referred to as a Rabbi. In Judaism you cannot be a rabbi without being married and that has been historically invariable.
In the story of the man blind from birth, he is referred to as Rabbi, but these people also hung on his every word and questioned him, believing he had complete gnosis of Yahweh's spiritual laws regarding the man's blindness. He also healed and did work on the Sabbath in that same story, something a "true" Rabbi would not do (and in fact angered leaders) or preach on a hill, instead of in a Synagogue. There's various indicators of unconventionality here and yet he was still referred to as Rabbi. I am also sure there is process and ritual in becoming a formal Rabbi, of which there is no writings saying Jesus underwent such formal training. He would also have fallen short today, in studying Kabbalah, as marriage and being over 40 years of age being a requirement if one was to take Talmud and Jewish law literally.
Sarah Harris I agree that the story has inconsistencies. BIG inconsistencies. I personally don't think that Jesus ever existed, but this sort of scriptural anomaly and its explanation is always an interesting exercise.
Soylent Green JESUS CHRIST IS REAL. HE LOVES YOU. REPENT AND GET RIGHT WITH HIM. THERE IS NO TIME. GOD BLESS YOU.
Soylent Green lol I just wrote this same point!
Judaism has no say on how a rabbi has to be married. Judaism doesn't even acknowledge Jesus as the son of God. Judaism is the "words of the pharisees and sadducees" basically
Um...What about Fr. Thomas Brodie's hypothesis that the New Testament gospels are derivative of the Septuagint and a set of Pauline epistles? I just finished Brodie's _The Birthing of the New Testament: The Intertextual Development of New Testament Writings_ and I highly recommend it. I think Fr. Brodie's speculation upon the true nature of Q is inspired. I'm a convert. To date, I've largely been an adherent to Burton Mack's postulated developmental processes, but Brodie's fine points just adds the icing to Mack's cake.
I kind of wish Jesus had a wife, it would be nice to have someone to ship him with lulz
I ship him with Peter
Seriously??
Lesson from the Apocalypse of Blessed John the Apostle , i . 1-5
Hearken , O daughter and see , and incline thine ear : and the King shall greatly desire thy beauty .All beautiful is the Kings daughter as she comes in , robed in cloth of gold. Alleluia alleluia. Mary has been assumed into heaven : the angelic host re-joices. Alleluia.
Thank you for sharing. For my ignorance, It would not change my faith if Jesus had been married. Its only the Roman Catholic Priests that make a big deal of remaining celibate.
Excellent video. However two importants questions have not be asked 1- Who forged that document? 2- For what purpose? Do you have any assumptions about or information?
Thank you for the tip. I just finished to read the long (too long?) article...It is an extremely thorough investigation even when the journalist tries to determine the motives of the forger! The whole section about his pornographic past is mind boggling!!!
How did they find out how to spell
"My wife" if just copied from thomas
nthnppps they were fluent in coptic, or knew a scholar.
Bentley Laytons Coptic in 20 lessons was published in 2007
"My wife" appears in the Gospels. Could have taken it from a Coptic New Testament.
Very useful information for early covid era
OH MAN!!! PLEASE cut out that obnoxious background noise! You have valuable input- that's all we need!
I can't hear the phrase my wife without hearing Borat in my head
Jesus did have a wife.
Its allegory the marriage didn't happen it happens, a perfect union that takes place inside of oneself.
Beside of this document being fake. Wouldn't it be likely, that Jesus was married? Was the social status of being married important? Is it likely that historical documents would mention if someone is married or not?
Kissed her often on her (unknown), could be foot, cheek whatever
Why would the other diceples be so angry about it, however?
I love your channel
6:24 The beat 🔥🔥🔥
loool yup 🔥
Judas kissed Jesus on the face, like Jesus kissed his students on the face, so He did with Mary Magdalene.
Good point, kissing was common currency among friends. Nothing to see here folks, move on please.
There are so many gaps in knowledge of Christian religion and history in general, anything is possible. Scribes everywhere were putting their own opinions on scripture as they copied texts. Even today people, mostly for profit, come up with unusual theories. The whole research area is underfunded, and just think what wonders might be awaiting in a dank hole in some out-of-the-way monastery or even a tomb.
Jesus knew he would die at age 33... why on earth would you marry and leave your family widowed?! Not the son of God that’s for sure...
Actualy he did not died at the age 33, the new scienctific research proved he was in his 40s,43 years old.
Don Lucchese
Can i have a link to these?
Thanks Elizabeth, common sense isn’t very common these days.
Don Lucchese : According to who? Got any evidence?
@Warren Goss sure nota s high as you.
The message is all about love. That anyone should stand up in this world and say love your neighbor as yourself is the only relevant discussion. What a truly great man.
Home Run Andrew! Your scholarly diligence is the reason I sub you! Keep up the good work!
You seem to ignore the fact that the person who authenticated it in the first place is probably the leading expert in the field. And how long did it take the church to find and pay to discredit her. They have time after time.
I know her personally. The text was found to be a forgery by other scholars, and she eventually agreed. Not the "church" paying anyone off. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show me the evidence that the "church" paid her off.
Actually he didn’t ignore it. He did acknowledge it towards the end.
The irony of your claim is that even if this was an authentic fragment it would still be, at best, a 3rd to 5th century work. Meaning it would prove literally nothing about Jesus.
It would be like claiming that the Arthurian cycle is historical proof that there was a king named Arthur who slept with his sister who was a witch / faerie / goddess.
I doubt “The Church” would risk tarnishing their own reputation through subterfuge over a fragment that had no hope of actually harming them.
@@ReligionForBreakfast actually the very idea that she was wrong and lesser scholars convinced her is laughable but the evidence of the bribes and corruption of the church is only a distraction from the fact that the church and its believers have provided no evidence that any of the gospels are true. We do however have precedent for the churches corruption and dishonest tactics.
Excellent analysis.
Do correct me if I’m wrong but, Jesus not being celibate would complicate CATHOLICISM rather than Christianity in general. The concept of celibacy is a lot younger than Christianity, and the justification by Jesus supposedly being unmarried himself to set an example wasn’t its original justification.
So many gospels all copies of copies of legends are there any direct gospels?
God Bless Everyone
Thanks much for this video.
It is so sad that even now most so-called Christians don't know what Jesus is, what he did, and what he has done since. Anyone who thinks an advanced Master like Jesus had a wife demonstrates to the world that they are also in this boat of ignorance. The truth is not a secret, it just gets rejected or ignored by people who want to believe something else.
The media always jumps on a story that might discredit Christianity. Fake? They don't care. They'll never print a retraction.
great video keep it up!
And Jesus said unto them, "Take my wife. Please."
From the Gospel of Henny Youngman.
LOL! I was thinking that you look and sound so different! Then I realised this is from 7 years ago!
{:o:O:}
Here's the thing I was raised in church and I am now a atheist. The bible says that jesus was without sin. Its not a sin to be married the bible also says it is better to marry that to sin or burn.