🍎 Fruit Tree Training Progress, Perfect Forms 🍏
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- I have found that the common recommendations for training fruit trees are slow, clunky and burdened with misconceptions. My experiments toward better, faster, smarter methods have shown outstanding results. Using these simple methods we can usually get exactly the tree forms that we want much faster than the old clip and pray methods recommended and followed for hundreds of years, but challenged and tested by few.
By avoiding cutting back new trees and using simple interventions like notching and disbudding, growth can be guided very specifically down to choosing which buds are to be the main scaffold branches and where lateral fruiting wood comes off of main scaffolds. For more detailed, specific information, watch the following videos.
Tree Forms Explained: • Fruit Tree Training Ex...
Smarter Fruit Tree Training: • Before You Cut Back Yo...
Follow Up on Pear Tree Training: • This is the Future of ...
The 1920's apple framework study: skillcult.com/...
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I tried your notching technique last season. It's really satisfying watching them sprout and elongate just where you wanted. It's a revolution.
Yep, it's so much better. Not my technique though, it's been known and used for a long time. I"m not sure why all these simple things haven't come together into a commonly used system of training.
My dad used to train limbs to grow the direction he wanted by hanging weight on the branches using a loop of string. The weights he used were usually big old washers or nuts. It worked very well for him. The weights he would reposition over time to get the exact angle he wanted.
I do that sometimes. I have wire hooks and various pieces of metal and slate cut outs that I use.
Good to see you and the orchard. Dr.Jim Cummins use to run the New York Experimental Station and retired to his own nursery(Cummins Nursey) told me if you want a standard tree just to plant graft below soil line and it will root itself to standard. I have found in my area only trees that i planted like that have survived.Cant wait to see what you have to offer for sale this year. Keep up the good work !
I’m so grateful for the videos you put out. Would love to buy you a beer.
I would love that too :)
Those M111 - bud 9 interstems (15:40, 16:36, 17:01) are looking so nice
Yeah, they are great except for suckering. the suckers on some of them are epic. I"d recommend planting interestems deep enough to get the botto stock fully underground so the interstem piece roots too. In the future, I hope to compare them in trials to M27 and Bud 10
deer can be frustrating, Ive given up having nice low branching trees and force everything to be a whip until 5' high, then train it as you show.
I fence everything, but in some areas they are very aggressive about getting through fences. Not here fortunately.
Sounds familiar, we have 3 apple trees in the yard and the deer remove anything low down. Seriously considering moving to standard size trees when I plant more just to have bigger trees (bears break a lot of trees around here while climbing to get the fruit)....
@@folkcraftrevival7758 bears are horrible man, just breaking trees to the ground to eat unripe fruit. I think Steven here has had success using security lights on motion detectors, but Im dreading when they move in to my newly planted orchard...deer are at least mindless walking vacuums that will only suck what they can easily reach normally....
@@MrChickadee Agreed. I may have to look into that. I expect that if an apple falls from the tree the deer will have eaten it by the next day, and they'll eat any twig lower than 5-6 feet off the ground -- That's annoying, but I can deal with it. I've seen bears 15-20 feet up the neighbor's pear tree snapping branches and eating all the fruit. If they hit your tree you don't end up with anything!
There's a young apple tree about 1/2 mile from my house that's been snapped off several times in the last couple years by bears in the fall. Hence me thinking it might be wise to try growing larger trees -- at least they would only be able to snap the top branches. Not ideal for picking, but might be helpful in trying to keep the tree alive.
Great video! Looking forward to snagging some of your scion wood this year for my orchard. Can't wait!
Just found this video after watching your series on pruning. Thanks for the great content! This video would make a great addition to your "Smart fruit tree training" series of videos. Awesome stuff!
Thanks, I must have forgot to put it in that playlist!
Best video yet I've seen from you. Keep doing what you do, good sir.
I’ve been getting into studying community production gardens and different organizational structures for gardens, with the goal of figuring out how they could be introduced to areas where they will reduce food insecurity and add some social value to the communities. Just wanted to say that so many of your videos have priceless information in them. The charcoal videos are also very interesting, and I’d like to test at some point if there’s a beneficial relationship between the nitrogen fixing colonies in legumes or clover, and the charcoal in the soil. Outstanding stuff, keep up the good work 👍
I would think that char and legumes would play well together. For one, it is alleged to shift PH higher. But it makes sense that it might house those symbiotic bacteria better than soil without char. I would not be surprised if someone has studied that already.
One of my favorite videos yet!
I can’t believe how much I just learned. Thank you!!!
Thank you for sharing your journey.
Another great video, thanks. Maybe you could also do a video on how to prune and rejuvenate old apple trees (>20yrs).
I would like to do that sometime. It's on the list!
@@SkillCult if you need any specimens for demonstration and are in the Portland OR area, I've got several old and unattended apple trees you're welcome to!
Nice, I've been waiting for your next upload. By the way, I was luck to get some scionwood (Gold Rush, Fuji, Pink Lady & Winter Banana) in December from the US , I'm in Jamaica. I did the chip bud method to maximize success rates. Will show my results 👍🇯🇲👨🏽🌾🍎
Chip budding is great for conserving grafting material! hope you did well.
Are you at high altitude? Apples need a few hundred hours between freezing and 45f/7c each winter.
@@mytech6779 no they don't, Apples have been growing in hot California for decades, as shown by kuffel creek . Likewise, the Wambugu variety from Kenya. There's a comprehensive list of low chill/ no chill varieties available online, demystifying the high chill requirements for apples.
Yes, but most of the varieties you mentioned are high chill hour apples
But good luck
Just got some Cherry Scions from the vendor you recommend. Will be my first attempt at grafting. Look forward to implementing your training. Thanks for these Masterclass videos.
Sweet cherries have been the hardest, most stubborn trees to train for me so far. They grow in teirs or whorls of branches that are space out pretty far. Tart cherries seem easy enough.
@@SkillCult It looks like bud grafting is the recommending method for sweet cherries according to some extension and university ag articles.
I’m going to try that notch and sheet metal technique this year.
I need to fab up some new clip prototypes this season.
Hi, I’m currently trying your method. Really interested to see how the first tree in this video reacted to the notching this spring, what buds took off etc. Hope you will make a followup.
I probably won't make a follow up and I'd have to watch the video to try to figure out which buds you are talking about. The approach seems to be remarkably effective on apples and pears. I just used it this spring on all my new fruit trees in the nursery. Other trees need more research, but I suspect it will work very well for most.
@@SkillCult Got two apples on Antonovka rootstock. One notched, one untouched. I can compare and share my xp this fall
Great video and nice work!
Can t wait to see the apple trees this summer.
Awesome. I was dismayed to hear Bud 118 has some graft incompatibility since I thought I could simplify to one root stock for a weather resistant orchard with no fussy staking or wires. I was wondering why my Tangowine mostly succumbed. Just have to grow mostly compatible varieties or could try B118 with B9 interstem. No problems with B9. Nice looking training, thanks.
I just love your content. Great stuff 🙂
I've been trying to grow all kinds of fruit trees (70 some trees, apples, sweet cherries, plums, hybrids, peaches and pears) for 6 years. Reading all the standard books and ...STRUGGLING! Just found your videos and realize all the things I should have been doing from the beginning (Instead of following the books)! Your videos are a Masters Class in fruit trees. Thank you! How do you save/keep your fruit over the winter? What about the apples on the trees in January, they haven't frozen?
I don't save much in the way of apples, except on the tree. I like to save some gold rush. You can keep them in a cellar or root cellar, but a fridge works better. Definitely sealed up though. We don't get super cold here, so apples keep on the tree fine. I'm not sure what the temperature limits are on that. Probably around 15 degrees maybe? Depending on the apple though. We need more people to test those long hangers in more climates.
@@SkillCult Thank you. I'll try leaving some hang this year. I was told to pick them all before the first freeze... so I did.
@@lyndaseiler1037 All apples have their own best time to pick. Some need to be stored, but don't store well on the tree, like gold rush. Most are best picked in fall. Only some apples hang well into winter. One of my projects is collecting and breeding apples that hang into winter. If you climate is mild ebnough, they are amazing. what is your usual low winter temp?
@@SkillCult Central Missouri...usually -10F but can get -20 sometimes. I have some trees that ripen in Mid-Late November and it will be in the low 20s at least two or three days by then. Thanks for any advise. I need all the help I can get...your videos are the best source I have found.
@@lyndaseiler1037 so you're not going to be able to hang very late, but maybe into early winter some year. Allen's Everlasting and Pilot are good apples that ripen late, but not super late.
Informative, thanks. Subscribed.
What a gas! Cool video.😮 The notching info was good. I heard people use a hacksaw blade too. I Tried to do it last summer late with summer pruning to set some fruit buds if I could... a few worked and others, on my pear top 3ft. shoot did not, and they are drying out after the buds sprouted out... I hope that's not disease. Which makes me ask what disease are you testing for with those certain scions.? I understand you are trying to keep the stock pure for resale of scions or just cleanliness too. I have a big knowledge gap to fill about diseases... pears around here in Eastern Iowa get fireblight. So with honeycrisp alot into this orchard I prune. Carry on with the love of fruiting..😅.!!
Sometimes notching works late and sometimes not. I'm testing for apple mosaic virus. It shows up as a mottled appearnce on the leaf. I have a video about it somewhere on youtube.
Great video, thanks!
Beautifully done and elegantly explained. Thank you! Your scaffold structure is beautiful. I plan to try notching! I wonder about slowing, by later reduction cuts, the big codominant scaffold branches you want. Just a little, so they remain big but enough smaller in girth to possess stronger attachments to the main trunk. Possibly you'd get longer tree life? But would this negatively impact fruiting?
I will start heading the mail scaffolds back at some point. I usually want them to grrow out pretty long though. But if they seem too long for their diameter, of course you can head back at any time. At this point, I'm mostly just interested in seeing what happens. If the tree is growing well, they will tend to thicken up pretty fast, because all the energy is going into just those few limbs.
@@SkillCult Thanks. It's interesting for me, coming at this from a background in structural pruning of shade and ornamental trees. A Reduction cut there means, if possible, to cut to a smaller branch, at least a third the diameter of the main branch, that can take over as leader. This slows the branch down but enables you to keep it longer, say if it is too low on the trunk to remain as a permanent branch, to help thicken the main trunk. Reduction cuts are also used of course to shorten a tree or limb, say to reduce wind resistance, cutting back to a lower, slightly lesser branch that takes over as the new leader.
Heading cuts are controversial in my world because in a large tree, they generally mean topping. But they are sure useful on whips or on young trees with unbranched branches, so to speak, and arborists with nursery backgrounds.know this. QUESTION: Are heading cuts as stimulating to new growth as fruit tree guys tend to say? I ask because I am training some young trees of all kinds, shade and fruit, and in some cases I can't decide whether a Reduction or a Heading cut would be best to A.) retain the branch longer and B.) slow it the heck down so that the eventual Removal pruning wound is smaller.
My hunch or working theory is that if a Heading cut does stimulate rampant new growth, as I've heard, it's whippy the first year but its girth does not appreciably increase. Which would be great for me as I could keep the branch longer, helping the main trunk.
Nice work Stephen and thx for the edumacation. What's this about moving? You got a new place in mind? Definitely gonna use this technique this season as an experiment.
-fixie
I have to move in the next few years. I'm saving money for a new place.
Thanks for the video. How do you control the dominance of the main scaffold branches, to get co dominance. I've heard you should cut back the less dominant branches hard to encourage growth.
If I have one that is sluggish, I'm more likely to notch above it if it's young, even if it's a year or two old. Usually it's not much of a problem though. You can also keep cutting the top back until the main scaffold branches are well established.
On somewhat older stock, remove all fruit from the weak branch first thing in spring, leave heavy fruit on the vigorous branch.
Angle makes a difference too, vertical shoots try to become dominant and horizontal lose vigor with the range in between effect this with twine and stakes.
Light matters too, a slightly shaded side will be less vigorous and need more thinning to let in light.
Combine all (including notching) as appropriate for the condition.
There are more extreme methods for special cases like notching below a vigorous branch or even ringing the bark all the way around said branch,(Cover groove with grafting tape or wax) but at that point I just reconsider the whole tree goal, maybe even cut it down and rind graft onto the stump.
Impressive cacti! How long have you been growing those?
Those in the first frame are 3 years old from seed. I have a small cactus channel too. www.youtube.com/@TeamWachuma
I am very interested in using your technique on my cordon espalier. I am doing a 45 degree espalier for apples and pears. I am not sure how to use your methods on a cordon. Can you give me some advice please.
The part that will prove useful in a diagonal cordon system is notching above buds to encourage side growth. I have used that myself on mine. sometimes they will grow section of stem with no spurs or side growth. You can notch above the buds to create the side growth you need. Don't do any disbudding though. for more complicated espalier forms, notching and disbudding should be extremely useful for getting those branches exactly where you want them, without having to head back over and over again and pray they sprout out where you want them.
Steven, pink lady's real name is : cripps pink, it was bread by a Mr Cripps in Western Australia at a resurch station, if that helps trace lineage, ( i;m saying this cos i'm not shure if Americans know this).
Most fruit people know that, but the pubic doesn't. I think it was the first successful tradmarking of an apple name. Now everyone does it.
@@SkillCult i wasn't shure if you knew cos your in America. i hope you get your own farm soon, so you can continue your projects.
Steve - when we have a really hot summer here in the UK, trees on small rootstocks often go almost dormant for a while. They produce no scions, often for a year or two, which can be frustrating if you have a tree you want to propagate. . Have you any ideas about waking dormant up trees which are small and have ceased putting on growth?
By dormant you mean they leaf out and then just sit there?, or they are not growing at all? Very strange sounding. maybe cutting back and fertilizing? Dunno.
The Bite Me tree where you’re going to replace all the branches - can you replace all of them at one time or do you have to space it over a few years?
I can do it in one year. I don't really worry about that. I will take a whole tree and replace all of the current growing and fruiting wood in one year and just keep the framework.
@@SkillCult Awesome thanks. I got a big nursery tree for cheap and i'm planning to rework all the limbs with the scions i got in the mail. First time grafting! Your videos are helping a lot. I'm having a lot of trouble getting the thumb position right when making grafting cuts. It's really difficult to hold it so that it keeps the scion tip steady, but also is not in the path of the blade.
Have you ever experimented with summer pruning?
Yeah, it's useful. It can encourage the formation of fruiting wood and allow light to get to the fruit.l It can also control size. I usually don't pull it off, but it's usefull. More time to prune in the winter tho
do you know if the notching technique works on peach trees as well?
Usually you wouldn't need to, but sure it ought to work. They tend to feather out a lot as the grow. If they are feathering during the growing season, you can just remove the ones you don't want as it grows to channel more growth into the ones you do want. It is grows long stems that are branchless I would try it.
What do you think of Emla 106 rootstock for a backyard zone 6b WV? I found a really good unknown variety I want to graft an plant in my yard. Emla 106 is the rootstock I ordered
I don't know a lot about rootstocks actually. I just look at the comparison tables. I haven't used that rootstock.
Do you wait a year after planting to prune?
You don't have to. It just depends on the situation. Typicaly you do some cutting on planting.
Do you happen to know the name of the rootstock for the tree at 15:40? I have a tree that grows its limbs in a very similar way and Ive been curious to find out what the rootsock potentialy could be.
That has more to do with the fruit variety and growth than the stock. since there are a lot of branches, they are small and easily bent down by fruit weight. That one and the next two I showed are all on M111 with a dwarfing bud 9 interstem.
@@SkillCult Thanks for the insight!
Probably a stupid question- but is there any way to test for virus?
Probably. I think indexing is probably very effective though. My friend Mark Albert said they used to use Hewes Virginia Crab in to index apples for virust at a nursery he worked in.
I've watched and read about ladders and scaffolding, but I still struggle to understand.
Will branches continually "branch" and is that bad?
It is fine as long as they are not too crowded, but that is what pruning is for. I usually shoot for a secondary scaffold along the main limbs every 12 inches, but on alternating sides of the tree. so on one side of the branch, they are spaced out at around 24 inches. You just want to maintain enough space for light and air circulation.
Scaffold means structural support, main limbs and some secondary branches. Fruit is produced on younger twigs and spurs. Thick old sections of branches usually do not have active buds so they do not branch much unless damage activates the repair response.
@@SkillCult Strange the comment is marked 35minutes ago but your response to it is marked 40 minutes ago. 🤔...youtube.
You could call the ice princess "pea princess" if it's so sensitive.. like that Fable about a princess so sensitive that she could feel a pee underneath a hundred mattresses... Or something like that.
yea, but everyone will giggle everytime i say it :)
Another great video! Reminds me that I need to do some work on my whips from your seed. I'm going to be planting them in the ground soon and I guess I'll be doing a trial row. I am not really limited by space, but obviously I don't really want to space them at the normal spacing for apples. How much space would you recommend between them?
My trials rows are planted 12 inches apart and 6 feet between rows. You might get away with that usin the oriinal roots, but mine are on dwarfing stock like m9 and bud9. I have some super crowded seedlings on their own roots that seem to do well enough, so I'd say 12 to 18 inches if they are just for trials.
@@SkillCult Awesome, thanks!
Question: here in central Nebraska, can I do this on my apple trees now or do I have to wait until spring and buds appear?
I would wait until the most severe freezes are over, but preferably before the vegetative buds break.
@@SkillCult We have a problem in the south where the weather is so crazy, our trees are sprouting again for the second time this winter.
@@workinprogress3609 wacky. I had a few flower this fall and early winter, that's abou the weirdest thing I've seen here.
Does your delayed central leader system work well with stone fruits? Does it benefit the longevity of the tree?
It can. they are more often pruned to open center form and delayed open center is a good one. I'm not sure for very good reasons though. I"m not entirely sure what the reasons even are. Delayed open is a really nice form though. Just train the same and cut out the center when you have all the scaffolds where you want them.
Before you move?
Yeah, I'm planning to buy a new place. I hope anyway.
What rootstock do u use
Depends on what size trree and what rootstock properties you want. there are charts online showing size and characteristics.
👍
Why is pruning your fruit trees so complicated? It all sounds like "Wha wha whawhawha wha wha"
Is there like a tree pruning for dummies?
Ehat about it is so hard
I feel the same. What's a scaffolding and what's a ladder?
Watch his videos on fruit tree training and that will give you a good foundation.
@@jonathangardner4475 ladder??
It's a complicated subject. Eventually I'll be trying to simplify it as much as possible, but it can only be dumbed down so much. The common recommendations are so dumb that they don't work well. If you want good results, you might have to apply yourself a little bit, or take some rittalin.