My hats off to the few and far in between who've decided to not hate here. It takes a REAL man or woman to hold their tongue even if they find this information contrary to their own knowledge. It also takes a REAL man or woman to, if they absolutely must, leave a constructive comment. I never claimed to be a professional technician. I AM, however, doing my best to make great content. The intent of this video was to show the pros and cons of an electric fan setup. Clearly this was aimed at beginners. I hope some of you can relate with me. But, if not, I hope you can leave constructive criticism at most and leave your negative, hateful comments locked tightly in your fingers. Thank you all!
My thoughts on the haters, if you can't say something nice or constructive, keep your mouth shut. Big fan of yours, Jimmy. Learned a lot from you. I'm looking into putting a single fan on my 91 Silverado to see if it will help with keeping my old boy cooler in the blazing heat.
Not a hater but you may want to consider not making videos on stuff you don't know anything about. You will get criticized for them. UA-cam is chock full of trolls but I'd hate to say they aren't the only ones giving you a rash of sh1t. Good luck on picking better content for future videos.
You say "The intent of this video was to show the pros and cons of an electric fan setup", but the title of the video says you should NEVER install an electric fan, implying that the intent of this video was never to show it's pros. However, the video content itself was very informative, and I enjoyed your insight. The only change I would make is to stop telling people to NEVER do something that actually works just fine in many situations. Circumstance is important. Weak alternator, low load? Yeah, of course mechanical is better. Powerful alternator, very low driving speed and very high load? The electric fan is obviously better.
As an electrician - there's some stuff that needs addressed here: 1. "Hot idle" rating for an alternator isn't a thing. If you select the wrong alternator and pulley setup, you might not be turning it fast enough, you won't get your excitation field and your 140A alternator won't produce much power at all. That's the sort of thing that normally gets fixed with an idle regulator and voltage feedback loop. If the engine computer sees the voltage sag, it opens up the fast idle valve. That's basically the way the big three have been doing it since the late 80s. Sometimes they change the alternator design after testing shows they're using the idle kick too much. Often, they just put a smaller pulley on the alt so it spins faster at low idle. (Looking at you, F150 Tritons...) 2. Early 80's VW's have 30A cooling fans (and 30A rear window defrosters!) Their alternators are usually rated for about 85 amps. It's a simple circuit, passes through a thermal switch in the radiator and through the fuse block. The wire's about 12g. It's not complex or difficult to replicate. You don't need an alternator that's rated for literally twice the peak current draw of the entire vehicle. Even aircraft only go over by about 20%. 3. If you're blowing a 40A fuse with a device that's only supposed to draw 30, then you have either a defective part or a wiring fault, end of story. A weak alternator could have a voltage sag below 12v and then, technically, sort of, almost, you could probably make it so that 30A fan was drawing more current because of the lower voltage... assuming your battery had failed as well. I just about guarantee - that's not what happened. As for benefits - Meh. I mean, the power has to come from somewhere. If you have a mechanical fan with a fluid coupler, you're gonna feel the drag all the time. If it's directly coupled, you have harmonics to deal with, additional rotating mass that will effect your RPM pick-up and, just like the fluid-coupled fan, you'll be producing drag all the time. If you have electric fans with a thermal switch, then you'll have additional drag on the alternator and you'll feel it pretty much the same as with the mechanical fans, but only when they're running, which they won't do (usually) on the freeway so they're at least good for boosting freeway mileage, even if just a little. Electric fans with good motors are usually heavier than directly coupled fans and about the same weight as a fluid-coupled fan. I always install electrics and it has nothing to do with a cool factor or fuel efficiency or even cooling effectiveness. I use electrics because I never, ever, want to have to pull out a mangled cat from my radiator shroud again. YMMV.
I agree with everything you had to say except about the hot idle. It's been proven that as alternators get hotter, they put out less power. Also, when your vehicle is idling obviously its spinning the alternator slower and will put out less power. Even with a hairpin alternator.
One funny thing about them engine driven fans is that, during the fall seasons, theres always like a "mini tornado" right under the hood with the leaves and what have you... :D
@@mbl2012 but if it's getting hot enough that the heat soak is dropping voltage that much, then there's a major issue in there. The whole set up is overheating. Go buy an rc car and do a burn out untill it starts to slow down, then keep going and see what happens. It'll smoke up, but it only slowed a few seconds before the smoke. That heat soak shouldn't be allowed to go that far and if that's happening then airflow isn't there. Hot idle won't drop voltage that much, severe heat soak will though.
@@KeeganClimo my belt driven fan was 35cm from blade to blade and my new electric fan is 40cm. That would mean that it's sufficient enough? Also i live in Finland and summer lasts like 3 minutes and winter 11 months 😂🔫
Youre thinking centimeters. Im talking about cfm. Cubic feet per minute in terms of the amount of air moved by the fan not the length of the blades sorry
@@KeeganClimo i know what you meant but my comment was just about how my new fan i much larger and spins faster aka should maybe move more air through the radiator? Belt driven was spinning slow while car was idling. New electric one can spin the max speed while I'm stationary, if i want that.
Ahh gotcha. Yeah more surface area should translate into more flow especially at a stand still since the electric keeps moving air. I misunderstood where you were going with that at first.
When my dad and I rebuilt a 69 c10, we used a dual electric fan setup and radiator from ron Davis. We had a lot of the same issues you're describing here. Through lots of trouble shooting and killing our high-horsepower engine at idle, even with a 280 amp alternator, we found the one thing that really made the biggest difference. A second battery, wired parallel to the original. Positive to positive, and negative to a good ground. If you're going to keep the circuit at 12 volts, this is the way you have to connect them. Effectively, your doubling the "depth" of the battery, giving you a larger duty cycle or more amps stored up for large power draws like the dual fans. I'm no expert on the specifics of how this worked, but all of this is based purely on experience. It really helped to have another battery for the fans to draw current from.
Your blowing fuses has nothing to do with your alternator being weak. 50 amp fuse takes 50 amps to pop the fuse. You pushing more power with a larger alternator is going to have the same result. The wires are melting because the wire gage is not rated for the constant high current . Run a fuse to two 30 amp relays and wire the fans independently with 30 amp fuses with larger gauge wire. Your pos and negative wire should be the same size so you have minimal resistance. Hope this helps you or someone else.
He said the fans are 30 amps (i confirmed this and it is for both fans) and he popped 40 and 50 amp fuses. His wiring is good. He is messed up with his understanding of amps as you are. Resistance will melt wiring because of heat degradation, but resistance will not pop the fuse. The fuse will never ever pop unless at least 30 amps go threw it. He is pulling to much of a load for some reason or another. Either a fault with the components themselves, or it is not wired correctly. What you say to do is as stupid as the video is. I just watched your iphone video on your channel. And to think your a grown adult. Shame shame. Spamtard. YOU spam tard.
Correct. Just got done with this on my mustang. I used a heavier gauge from the battery with a 70amp fuse ran to 3 30 amp relays that only need switched power signal to operate, one for the AC override and 2 for the fans. Ground pins all come into one wire that I mounted to chassis ground. I also am not a fan of radiator probes. I installed a 3/8 npt temperature sensor into the thermostat housing. An intake manifold coolant jacket would be more accurate, but this is still 10x more accurate than a probe
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Not true the way you are thinking of it. If you have zero volts how many amps do you have????? Which side of the circuit are you thinking of? The fuse is directly in the middle. The fuse is like a dam in a river and is the exact middle of the pass of energy. If the electricity/energy does not pass through it, the fuse will not pop. Think of a river from way up north that flows down south as gravity makes the water move. Think of a dam in the river. This is concept stuff. Water, air and electricity are all pretty much the same. Were we really get stuck is we don't know what gravity is or really what goes on inside an atom. For electricity I think of voltage as the speed in which electrons move, and amps as how many electrons move. Resistance is the opposition of the two. If you have zero volts, how many amps do you have?
@@topmodstv3682 Not correct. I really don't know what you did to your car but I bet it should not have been done. See the comment thread starter below from brittany freeman 4 days ago
If I may add some constructive criticism. I'm sure these points have already been made in the comment section but I digress. Your comments about the alternator and needing to upgrade I agree with completely. However to say you need an expensive $300+ alternator with a max amperage in the 200s range simply isn't true. It's not about how much amperage the alternator is capable of making total, but what it makes where and when you need it. I can buy an aftermarket let's say DB Electric alternator just as an example so these aren't actual numbers, that makes 200 total amps, but only makes those amps at let's say 5000 RPM. Where as it may only make let's say 65 amps at 800. Now let's take a 140amp DR44 Delphi and again just spit balling numbers here but that alternator even though it makes a lower total, can make 100+ at 800 rpm. An alternator isn't just a thing where the more money you spend the better it's going to work. But I will say great job pointing out the big 3 upgrade. Many people skimp out on this. However this also applies to your fan wiring. I understand the fan controller was paired with the fans however I don't ever recommend using one. More often than not the wiring is too light, and heat can build as a result. You're better off grabbing a couple relays and temp probe. Build your own harness. If anyone actually takes the time to read this comment because I doubt anyone will, an electric fan is an amazing upgrade for anything from your daily driver all the way to your weekend toys. A proper install is key.
You make a great point. Many people fail to realize that the RPM is the alternator’s RPM which is dependent on the pulley size ratio between the crankshaft and alternator. The engine rpm is not the same. I was having the same issue with a discharge at idle until I replaced the stock alternator pulley with a smaller one which increased the alternator’s RPM. At idle, my alternator is NOW putting out the amperage needed to run my Windstar fans on my conversion. I did the math to ensure I got the smallest pulley I could while staying in the maximum rpm range for my alternator. When doing an alternator conversion you must consider the power curve for the ALTERNATOR’s RPM as a function of the vehicle’s rpm.
@@mark8012 Okay but you are essentially overclocking the alternator, which especially in a hot climate, will tend to wear out the bearings, diodes, and regulator, so you're buying a new alternator anyway and possibly much more often. Maximum RPM range does not mean everything is okay if you run closer to that RPM. It means don't ever for a moment exceed it. Automakers would have loved to just give you a smaller, lighter, cheaper alternator stock from the factory if all it took was putting a smaller pulley on it. On the other hand, even a stock alternator setup is going to fail eventually, so unless what you have is pretty new/recent repair, it's not entirely extra cost as you've got a full alternator life ahead on the replacement if it is sized appropriately instead of pulley swap-overclocked. You can get a 200A alternator for around $250 which isn't that much higher cost than a 130A.
Malibu, something is funny if your 140A DR44 alternator example is putting out 100+A at 800 RPM. Do you have a current vs RPM graph I could look at for it? Oh wait! You probably mean 800 RPM ENGINE speed so we're talking about double that for the alternator RPM? I don't ever rate them that way since there are people who change their pulley ratios. Anyway that would be a very unusual alternator to make over 70% of its peak rated output at a mere 1600RPM alternator shaft speed. Regardless I feel a 200A alternator is about right for this application because that's what I'm seeing car manufacturers put on trucks with electric fans, Granted I don't know what engine he has in his so it may vary some but I doubt all that much when sitting idle at a stop light which he kept mentioning as a primary concern, when the drive thru mentioned later would be more stressful as a longer event at idle. Automakers must have tested this and decided upping the amperage rather than just throwing a special alternator or smaller pulley on was either the most cost effective or longer lasting option if not both (probable). Then again, it seems like his fans are overkill and a radiator with another row would have helped efficiency. It shouldn't need both fans going 100% when sitting idling.
Stinky Cheese lol I straight up said in my comment those wasn't real numbers. But thank you for your reply. I'm aware of the differences between engine RPM and Accessory RPM.
Larger battery would help a lot. Run separate fuses to each fan. Change to pulley on the alternator so it turns faster. Factory setup is that one fan will engage with AC, both fans engage with temperature. Rather than having the AC fan cycle with the AC clutch it might be better to figure out a way to have the AC fan running full time anytime the AC system is on.
Agreed, in fact the instruction sheet that came with my 280 setup has a diagram where the battery is labelled "Secondary Battery" which implies that you have two.....IMO.
@@cuzz63 I usually wire them with separate relays but using NO/NC relays you can wire them so that the AC will always run one fan and the engine temp will run both fans.
You had a bad fan clutch. If you do install electric fans, be sure to use a heavy duty relay to transfer full fused battery voltage when activated by a temperature sensor that closes the relay ground circuit when needed. Power the relays positive control side by fused ignition switch circuit. You can use a second relay to close the fan relay control circuit when the AC is turned on and high side pressure needs to be reduced. All new vehicles use electric fans, most with 110-130 amp alternators and 5 times as many modules as your old truck. If your blowing or melting fuses, something is wrong, likely a bad connection which generates heat or a wire gauge too small. ...a weak alternator would cause a battery to go dead or discharge until you accelerated again.
i put 2 of 120amp heavy duty relay on the fan, using 8 Awg , upgrading from mechanical clutch fan to electri fan.. for my W140 97, S320 Mercedes..its works fine.. so far..hahaha
@@williamhussey1611 just because you can doesn't mean you should. You don't need both fans running together constantly. A factory setup has a high speed and low speed.
Good video. One extra thing: electric motors are defined as a "inductive load". And automobiles operate on Direct Current. Every time the cooling turn off, they send a reverse voltage spike into the electrical system. On most systems (with motors or electromagnetic devices) they place a diode accross the power terminals to release that energy.
Bad info here, I did e fan upgrade on my 96 suburban. No upgrades to the alternator. No issues after the initial installation. All that is needed is a quality installation with good grounds and proper wiring. My 07 has 2 e fans stock and and still not running a 240amp alt. For people watching this video e fan is the way to go installed properly not scary or cost expensive.
For small vehicles it's good but they can't pull no where near the cfm that a big V8 gas or large diesel when towing a 14,000 pound trailer. 6.0 Powerstroke fans pull up around 10k cfm through the radiator. When clutch is completely locked up it spins more rpm than the Engine itself.
living in a desert I heard and read multiple times that clutch fan is better for heavy duty trucks. GM is still using them in new diesel 2500+ trucks. I bought a mustang GT500 e-fan (13-14 5.8 super charge) 9 months ago to swap in my 4.0 v6 Nissan, but still not sure if I wanna do it lol.
The thermostat in your engine coolant needs to be the same as the settings on your fan when it kicks in. Most newer cars have a thermostat set at 195 to 205° so you’re 185 fan kick-in will interfere with the engine getting up to operating temperature. You should reprogram the fan kick in switch or change thermostats to match one another. That could help keep the fans from running unnecessarily and possibly save your fuses.
Glad someone caught on to this. Changed my t stat to 185 but was having a hard time wity set points.. It actually should be 195 to match a kit I was looking at... He mentions his has adjustable set points.. His kit is Probably out of my price range. I heard an older ford taurus fan has low and high speeds which is an interesting concept that may possibly lower amp draw when high speed is not needed... giving the circuit and components time to cool. Only thing I want electric is for a few more horsepower on entrance ramps on hills to highway or as I am looking for a spot on a hill to change lanes cause I had to get around a dump truck or garbage hauler...
When you change to a lower temperature thermostat (160-180°F), condensation in the transmission fluid doesn't evaporate ("boil off") as rapidly. ...it builds up. Especially if you drive a lot of short trips. To the extent that yir automatic transmission burns up clutches faster. If you have a manual transmission, this problem doesn't exist. So be wary of this.
Usually thermostatically controlled fans are supposed to kick in at the higher temperature range. If you have a 180F coolant thermostat, the Electric fan should kick in at around 210F and shutoff at around 190F, at least that's how I've seen it done on cars with factory electric fans.
I'll say this just from being a technician. I've done this conversion a few times. And the main thing you have to worry about is cubic feet per minute. If you're not pumping the same or more air than the fan clutch was pumping then it's not going to cool the car down. And also the other things a dual fan setup. Because you want a fan that turns on when you just got the AC running that'll keep your condenser cool but not have your car running so cool that it interferes with engine performance. But then you also want the second fan in case all hell breaks loose and it gets super hot and you need to just cool it down. But and you also need to have it disconnected from the engines other harnesses and wiring. It needs to be on its own independent circuit it does draw a lot of power but most of the vehicles that would need this setup can handle it if it's installed properly. And the other thing is making sure that your controller cut the fans on at the correct temperature. If it's too high you're going to have overheating issues if it's too low it'll interfere with engine performance and the proper way the engine is supposed to be ran
Installed a dual electric fan(flex-a-lite) on my 2001 GMC truck, it was the best thing I ever did to the truck! Had absolutely no problems... but to each his own.
I live in Las Vegas. I installed a dual electric fan set on my F150 as a supplement to the clutch fan and wired them to a relay to only come on with the A/C compressor. Worked fine
Come on man 🤦🏻♂️ I watched this because I was curious as to why someone would say stay away from electric fans. Then I realized the guy did it all wrong.
The clutch was probably failing on the mechanical fan, so a stock replacement would have most likely done the job. You do live in a high stress environment though so you might have had to go with a higher pitch blade/stronger clutch combo to get the job done. With the electric fan route, a smaller alternator pulley is what you needed.
I live in Arizona and I run a HD fan clutch and a bigger /more blades fan and my temp never goes past 180. As soon as it hits 185 the fan races on and the temp drops like a brick in secs even pulling trailers. 97 Tahoe 350 vortec 277,000 miles and still runs perfect
@@dieselbossbrandon I've read that you should let your vehicle get to an optimal temp around 200 so that it burns the fuel properly. Have you noticed any draw backs with it running slightly cooler?
@@TheDookieMaster I honestly have not I have over 280,000 miles on my Chevy Tahoe that has a fan clutch on it and I have not had a single problem with it running under 200 degs even while pulling heavy trailers. Matter of fact I actually have had less problems with my truck by it running cooler than it running hotter. The fuel economy part I don't notice any difference between it running anywhere between 160 to 200 my fuel economy stays about the same. I've heard a lot of people say that if you run under $200 as well that you're feeling economy will drop I don't believe that's true I haven't had a huge change. I keep all my cars and trucks running around 180 gas and diesel powered. All have well over 200,000 miles on them. I haven't had a problem with either one due to cooling issues or fuel economy. There are people that say that you'll get sludge in your engine by running too cool that's not true either I haven't had that problem. I do do my oil changes regularly as well.
Ok there is a simple $15 fix that would have stopped all of these problems. Bottom line is when you keep throwing parts at a problem and you don't understand the problem you'll never get it fixed.
Proper tittle "You Should NEVER EVER INSTALL ELECTRIC FANS!!" when you don't have a clue about what you're doing... Sorry all, but that's the most reasonable thing that came out of this video. ;-) Cheers
A few things about electric fans. 1) in very hot weather the high side pressure on an AC system can go ballistic when driving slow in traffic. Damage to the system can happen. Rather than going to a complete electric fan system simply install a single pusher fan that will activate only when the AC compressor is functioning. This will help keep the AC condenser (the part that is in front of the radiator) cool. Works on most applications fairly well. 2) The extra surge while driving in traffic is likely due to the engine staying cooler rather than extra power due to the lack of an engine driven fan. Remember, an automobile engine is actually a heat engine and when the engine becomes terribly hot it looses efficiency (power). 3) A person can install a fan system themselves IF (a big if) they are well versed in DC circuitry (operation of relays, temp sensors, etc.). This video was informative and fairly well balanced (not a rant).
A really informative video. I made the mistake of wasting plenty of time and hundreds of dollars trying to get electric fans to operate dependably and that's a key word because I got them to work, just not where I could trust them. This was on my 67 Mustang with a spirited late model 5.0 V8 engine. I figured that I'd free up some horsepower. I already had an extra cooling, 3 row radiator and a high flow water pump. I bought the name brand fans, too, the same brand mentioned on the video and another brand, also. It didn't matter, I was always chasing an issue with my high performance car in Florida heat with electric cooling fans. The very last thing I wanted to do was to destroy my expensive engine because it had overheated. There was fan motor failure (brand new fan), relay failures, temperature sensor failures (or sensor settings not staying consistent) and then the alternator upgrades then battery upgrades, wiring upgrades, (including installing diodes to protect the alternator from voltage that can be generated from free-wheeling, non-energized fans). Then there was the chronic belt slippage caused by the sudden load spikes that hit the electrical system when the fans kicked in especially when my cammed up, loping engine sat at idle. I finally got tired of the time and money dedicated, along with the issues and returned to a super dependable clutch operated manual fan. I bought the clutch that is short and made for hotrodders, for extra room, because my aluminum radiator takes up more space than a stock copper radiator. Summit or Jeg's can set you up with one for the same price as a standard, longer one, if you need it. The clutch fan may drain a few horsepower, but at least I don't have to worry that the electric cooling fan will find another reason to fail in summer heat and traffic, which is a constant issue if you live in a large Florida city. If you've got an old school, carbureted engine that isn't wired to a programmable on board computer and it has the V-belt alternator drive, don't use an electric cooling fan for your engine. The only way that I found to possible cure the belt slippage would have been to invest more money and time in a serpentine belt drive for the alternator. Then again, that wouldn't be a guarantee of no belt slippage. I'm not saying that electric fans don't work, period, it's just that they can be temperamental, costly and not suitable for a V-belt drive alternator that puts out just over 100 amps without A/C.
the number one reason you should never ever ever listing to anything this guy is talking about . 1 the ac was shit because he needed a fan clutch. 2 its not a school bus you don't need a 30a fan. the 100a alternator should be good to run anything. 3 this is the second video that showed up in my feed filled with misinformation. and i highly doubt that he even wired the fan correctly.
I'd recommend a PWM fan controller. They work a lot better than the simple on/off controls for fans. Helps with in-rush current and is much easier on your alternator. It ramps fan from stop to the necessary speed to cool down the engine which doesn't always required full speed.
Scott ___ Does this reduce the need for an upgraded alternator, since the fan is used less often? I like to think that my battery is pretty good - its got a large reserve capacity. Perhaps it would be enough to compensate for the draw. I’d have to crunch the numbers. I also live in Ohio, so it’s not as though it gets particularly hot here. 95 is usually the tops for a week out of the summer.
@@markofexcellence5209 N1ck0145 Garage is correct. Your alternator will still need to provide enough current for the vehicle and it's factory electrical load plus the fans. You might be able to use a slightly lower current alternator, but when your vehicle runs the a/c, the PWM controller will ramp to max speed to keep the head pressure on the ac condensing coil within operating range and dissipate the heat. If you idle very long at low rpm you'll experience the same issues Jimmy did. The lower the voltage the higher the current and the warmer your wire will get until breaker trips, or fuse melts, or wires melt if your fuse or breaker is rated for higher current than your conductors (wiring). Good luck with your project, hopefully this helps.
I have a Derale PWM fan controller but heard after I bought it that some customers had issues with them. I will try mine but fit a couple manual on and off control switching.
definitely use a PWM at all cost. It'll save fan motors from mechanical wear. In-rush spike is 2 or 3 folds greater than run-time current while the rotor has not begun to spin. HINT: fancy cars use PCM soft start on all high load/tork DC motors (FANS, windows, roof, fuel, steering column...) If you run a home AC system, look into soft-starting the (single phase) compressor to save costs. PWM all the way!!
Good advice. I also run a second alternator, and I have a second starter wired in, along with running dual heads with cams just in case one fails. I'm in the process of routing a secondary heater core and engine right now
I legitimately appreciate your honestly admitting that you have made mistakes, it is quite refreshing compared to the people who say that everything they buy is great. I am sure that this has probably already been mentioned, but when a fuse MELTS like yours were, that is NOT a problem with the fuse or alternator, and it is probably not caused by an overload. What actually usually causes the plastic housing of a fuse to melt is a poor connection either between the fuse and the fuseholder, or a poor connection inside the fuseholder, such as spread out female terminals that don't grab the fuse tightly, So basically that means you need to get a different fuseholder, and make sure that the one you get is rated for at least 50 amps. On a motor application (such as fans), you need a fuseholder that is rated for more current than what the continuous load is because of the inrush current of the motors starting up since the motors will draw more current starting up than they will once they are running. I hope this helps you or someone else
Thanks for your video! I was a GM Man unit 1996. My first car was a used 1960 Corvair In 1995. Then many Cars until my last New car an 1986 EuroSport wagon, and a used 1991 Cavalier. Once i tried a used Honda, my tinkering around with Cars really ended. I still did my own maintenance on my Cars, but veryfew repairs. My first car with an electric fan was a 1983 Buick Century with a 3.0L V6, it did have a fan problem, which after a lot of testing turned out to be a short to ground. Once repaired I added a manual turn on switch, this repaired all my problems. All of the Honda’s had 1 or 2 electric fans. None of these ever caused any problems, and never had any problrpems (7 cars since 1996). All sold with at least 137,000 miles (except 1), and the last 2 over 170,000 miles. I am currently driving a 2009 Honda CR-V with 127,000 miles with 0 repairs (bought new). None of these Honda’s had or have large or heavy gauge wiring. The Civics had one fan the Accord and CRV have 2 fans. None of these had larger alternators, nor was this an option. Strange, eh? Thanks….Jim PS……seeing that GM is owned by China…..do you think it’s ok to buy foreign? I am currently on a Toyota kick (this may change), because of Honda’s change to small engines, turbos and CVTs…..which I will not buy. Toyota is still using non turbo engines and regular transmissions in the cars I like (purchased a new 2017 Toyota RAV4, FWD, 2.5L with 6 speed transmission, has 67,000 miles with no problems). Good luck.
A 30 amp system that is blowing 40 Amp fuses points to a problem in the fans themselves. There is no way that a healthy 30 amp system will pull 40 Amps. The system in my Jeep never had those problems and we live in New Orleans, while not as hot as Vegas, it is a humid heat, which reduces the cooling effect of the airflow. It is also a 30 Amp system that rarely pulls over 18 amps. Your fans were defective from the get go. I would worry about whatever problem they have going into complete failure mode and causing a fire.
one also wonder if he is running it through a relay ...that initial draw down when they engage could be causing problems... I would put and amp clamp on the fan power wire and see what happens when they engage ..
What year is your Jeep? I am going by memory from years ago, but a bunch of the jeeps have a gizmo under the right headlight if I remember correctly. I guess its a controller, or resistor, or what ever. This gizmo is a common failure. It is in fact so common I have had to make this repair so many times the trick is to drill a hole in the bumper cover so you can get to it easily for the next time the gizmo fails without removing anything but the headlight. Or, you can put a clutch fan on it. I despise Jeeps. I despise anything Chrysler. Crap. And to think the jeep helped us win WWII. Also, I think humidity increases the affect of cooling with airflow, so you may be wrong there? Evaporation. If moisture is on my skin and wind hits it, it make me cold. Dogs do not sweat so there is no evaporation on their skin. They can deal with the cold better than humans. I think evaporation removes heat. Google this for me please to confirm. I ain't no weather man or physicist. You got the amp part correct. :) He he. An intelligent person makes a comment on youtube. How very odd you are. Thanks.
YouSpamTard I think what he was trying to get at is that when it’s humid, the evaporative cooling effect doesn’t work as well. That’s why swamp coolers don’t work very well right after it rains
@@SergioPena20 Ummm, I think what you are talking about is called saturation. Dew point. I do not know. This is physics way beyond me and believe me, I have tried to understand. I ain't no chemist. :) Thing is, it is so very simple fundamentally speaking, but I do not have that fundamental. Google will not help. Do not even try.
I have been running electric fans in my trucks for 20 years. I've learned a ton in getting them right. I used off the shelf AutoZone stuff on my Dakota and initially for my S10. Eventually for my S10 a combination of a Summit Racing 31x19 aluminum radiator and a set of Summit shrouded fans has worked for years. For full size trucks the normal late model dual fan available from Doorman has been very reliable with my Suburban keeping a 454 cool and running happy; even in Las Vegas. Alternators: I've usually run Powermaster, but know others that are happy with either Mechman or Mean Green. I am currently running a 165amp from O'Reilly's on the Suburban. Each fan has it's own relay and power supply. They are triggered by a switch on the dash that is tied into an ignition hot circuit. That way my wife can drive my trucks without issue. I have not seen the electrical issues you note, unless I try to use fancy controllers. E-fans are my preferred setup no matter what. My water pumps live longer with out a heavy clutch fan dragging them down.
M AAR there’re far too many idiots making rude or counter productive comments online, huh? I go with the rule Mama taught me long ago. If you don’t have something nice to say, best not to say anything at all....especially on line. In person, yeah, I don’t always follow that rule, but on line, yeah.
I enjoyed the video, and learned a few things. I had residual and industrial training and worked as maintenance trouble shooter 42 years. Lets get down to basics 1. A fuse or breaker is used to protect the wiring in a circuit but in most cases will protect the device that its powering. 2. A fuse or breaker is designed to blow or trip without damaging the casing or mechanism. 3. If you have a 20 amp breaker in yours home and wire in a new rectangle using a number 14 wire you must drop down to a 15 amp breaker to protect the wiring (National Electric Code). 4. When using wie stripper don't nick or cut into the wire or remove some of the wire strains, this will result in a weak point that will heat up or start a fire.
Great video. Just want to add.... you can get a smaller alternator pulley. EX: from 2.25" to 1.75" and will rack out about 25% more power. Also the extra and more consistent cool increases life if coolant system. Don't forget Fleetguard coolant bypass filters. 75 filter + 20 1 piece T + 25 hoses. Great time to add a heat sink to further increase coolant
Funnily enough in high performance vehicles than run at higher rpm people often do the opposite and install larger pulleys on the alternator so that it operates within its optimal rpm limits, has less rotational mass and is easier for the engine to turn.
I had a 92 Chevy suburban that had the exact same problem and I also installed electric fans. I upgraded my alternator with one from a 3/4 ton Diesel 4x4 with the snow plow package Which was a 160 amp alternator. The key here is eliminating voltage drop. Your melted fuses and your flickering lights were being caused by restrictions in the electrical system not the alternator not being able to keep up. The fuses that you’re using just are not capable of handling a long-term high current draw. It’s because of the connections inside the in-line fuse holder that you’re having problems. I installed fusible links instead and powered the fans with relays and a temperature switch. I used a set of fans from an Oldsmobile 98 Regency that I found at the junkyard. I used two relays, one for each fan so there was some redundancy, and both relays were wired to either activate when the temperature switch reached a certain point (mine was a 190° switch), and when the air-conditioning compressor came on. I also added an additional ground strap between the alternator case itself and the engine block and between the engine block and the frame. And I ran a second charge wire in addition to the original wire directly back to the battery. The fans were also powered directly from the battery through the fusible links to the relays and had their own dedicated ground back to the frame. It wasn’t very costly to wired that way it just took some planning. Hi resistance causes excessive heat buildup and wiring, and no alternator can overcome that. The alternator is like a pump for electrons. I don’t care how big the pump is, if you restricted in late and it’s outlet it’s not going to be able to move the volume that you wanted to move. You are right about an alternator is rated capacity not being at hot idle. At hot idle it is only capable of about 60% of its full capacity. My system ran flawlessly for almost 10 years until one day sitting at a red light the car got totaled. And it went from being a swamp box to being frigid Lee cold even sitting in heavy traffic when it was brutally hot outside.
I had a 1990 Isuzu 2.6L 4x4 LS SpaceCab in SE Arizona. Lived there for nearly25 years. One of the best things I ever did for that truck was to install an electric fan system in it. I had gone thru several fan clutches and finally decided on the electric system. Bought the truck brand new in Hawaii in late 89, had 15 miles on it. Sold it a year ago with 226K miles and it still had that great electric fan on it (though I moved to Ohio in 2012).
Put each fan to different temperature. Like one on 90 degrees, second 95 degrees. You'll have less stress on idle and under load your engine will pull up the electric power up.
Aside from this video entirely, a lot of people in the comments do not know how alternators work. You can run dual 300 amp alternators on a stock system and the batter will not just "explode" as most of you think. Your vehicles electronic systems will draw the power they need and that is when having a 250 amp alternator is helpful. Alternators are also speed dependent and put out lower amps at lower rpms. My 1984 Dodge W250s stock alternator is 60 amps, at idle with my headlights on and aftermarket radio and a/c on I'm using every last bit of 60 amps and it's hard on the alternator to keep up so I put a 130 amp alternator in it and now I can run everything no problems. It's like the common misconception with wire gauge. (I've even seen electricians get this wrong) You can use a larger gauge wire as long as you start off with the correct size. My aftermarket gauges in my truck recommend 22 gauge wire but I used 16 gauge for durability and longevity since 22 gauge is too thin for my liking even though it would work perfectly well. You can even use zero gauge wire to run a 1 amp accessory light if you wanted, why? because the light is only going to draw as much power as it needs to. Same concept with alternators, the put out only the amps your systems are drawing. But yes if your old vehicle has a 60 amp alternator and you put on an aftermarket fan that can draw 40-50 amps you definitely need to upgrade your alternator, just get one that can put out enough amps for whatever you are planning to do.
This video has led me down a rabbit hole. After watching the video I saw a few things were not right. After reading the comments I learned a ton about what else could be improved. All this to say I finally realized I do not know as much about electrical systems as I thought I did. Your video whether it was 100% right, 100% wrong but it feel in-between and the pure controversy sparked interest for the truth. I started looking up educational scientific sources explaining voltages, wire diameters, voltage drop over length, heat effect on amps and tons of things that I never knew completely before. The more I learned the more mechanics I meet that were in the same boat as I was originally (just winging it). I found friends cars that have the switched fused 30 amps for the switch to the relay BUT the relay itself power circuit not having a fuse at all! Another was a weak dual radiator fan assembly being fed by an 18 gauge wire from the battery in the truck by the time the voltage drop hit the fans the 12-18V fans were only seeing 6v. All this to say, your video made a huge difference in my mechanical hobby life and I think about your video often when I am fixing stuff. Kaizen my friend!
I managed twin 16" fans on a custom steel shroud with an 80 Amp alternator and 2k watt stereo without issues at night with everything on...lights, wipers etc...
Wow, a 2000 Watt sound system? 2000/13.6 = 147 Amps. I bet your battery didn't last 5 minutes at that current draw. Oh, wait: maybe it just said "2000 Watts" on the Chinese box but it was actually 200W RMS? That's a common scam.
1. I used a lot of Rockford stuff not cheap China knock offs. 2. I never said it was RMS. 2k is a peak rating. 3. I never said I ran it at 100% all the time OR for extended periods... as that sort of thing would make one deaf. 4. I never said my gauge for my alternator didn't dance a bit and that the headlamps didn't dim when the bass hit. 5. I ran multiple amps as well. So to quote max power conversion numbers and call it impossible is like saying that the twin towers was a scam as jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt the steel...when steel doesn't need to melt to bend...in other words MAX power numbers aren't the absolute determining factor as to whether or not something works. So before you cry bullshit and bash with ignorant comments you should ask intelligent questions. You'll likely gain understanding.
@@manolisgledsodakis873 also don't forget that alternator output is not 13.6v as that would indicate a problem with your charging system. Proper voltage should be about 14.4 volts and when divided by an RMS of 1,000 yields a different result = 69.4
Not to argue with anyone but my set up worked for 15 years. I could write an essay on the details of WHY it worked out for me. I'll answer constructive questions as to WHY the person that made this video had issues with it working and WHY I didn't. Thanks.
I installed a derale electric fan on my 2003 dodge and it works great! I did not have to upgrade to more amp alternator. I've had my system for about 5 years now. I does require a little maintenance over the years but I am happy with my system.
What was the size of the fan, cfm rating and where was it installed on. was it on the radiator without ac or on the ac condenser. I am looking to install the Derale fan. Thank you
I bought a double set recently for $50 from the JY, with pigtails and shroud. He also had both fans running on the one power line, with an indirect ground. Wiring was pretty much all wrong, causing that fuse to melt every time.
Your absolutely right on all points, I own a 94 Ford Bronco and I live in the California desert where is gets to 110 in the summer and with my stock system my AC and truck would overheat and I was forced not to run my AC, to be honest with you i wouldn't even drive my truck on hot days like that. So i upgraded here is what it cost me. now in my case I didn't want my Bronco to even over heat again so i put in a new radiator. and i'm going to be installing everything when my radiator comes in its been on back order since January, but you are right with needing to upgrade everything else, awesome video man. Flex-a-lite fan-295 $366.00 Frostbite radiator FB224 $411.00 Mechman 320 amp alternator $525.00 Big 3 wiring and connectors and battery terminals. $200.00 Total Cost 1502.00
Dude! Thanks for all the details! I think it can help everyone here including me. Looks like you’re off to a running start. Mechman alts are no joke. Plenty of power for the fans. My Mechman 250 elite is awesome. I have since swapped the stock clutch fan back in but plan on going back to the electric setup soon!
Actually the best upgrade u need at the top of ur mods list would be a good set of electric fans.. Takes a lot of drag off motor allowing the crank to reach higher RPM's quicker and less drag. All around great move.
I'm building up my 87 Monte Carlo. 383 stroker, aluminum block, 4-core aluminum radiator, AC delete. Due to space concerns I think I'm going to need electric fans, and the added horsepower will be more than welcome.
Nope. A fan takes a certain amount of watts to turn. You can get those watts through the crankshaft with a mechanical fan, or through the alternator and electric fan. The wattage will be the same, so the drag will come from either the crank or alternator, but it will be there. People assume an alternator makes current with no drag. Not true. An fully loaded alternator causes serious drag....
@@scottyh72 lol did u just tell me no as in im wrong not a very intelligent upgrade to try an convince me that replacing a clutch or rpm fan with a set of electric fans wired to a 180 stat, wont give multiple benefits . what's the rest of this i gotta hear it plz u were telling me how the crank supplies tiny bits of watts ehh as if there is a stator mounted like a dirt bike or Indro . those do actually produce some "millivolts" that are capable od running some low volt flood lights or enough to help replenish a trickle type charge to keep a 9 volt moto battery on the positive side of things. now are u certain u feel like challenging me to any common sense mechanics of simple motor function and or possible up grades ? cause im gonna be honest and tell u ive got 20 plus years of rod, nitro methanol speedway , motocross, 24hours Daytona, rat rods, daily driver, large diesel earth working tractors , jet boats, toys u fuggin name it ive either executed full ground up builds on there motors for any thing from oem to max flow head work and gapping rings, degreeing cam shafts, balance and blu printing full 30k motor builds , roller, solid, hydraulic tappet, rockers, roller cam, gear driven cam with dual tension dual adjusters, injection, super charged, nitrous 50 to 200 shot etc etc etc
Does electric fans not add more drag to the alternator. I would like to get electric fans. I have a liquid clutch fan in my Chevy 2500hd. I do know that more load the more work the motor has to do with turning the alternator. I wonder what the trade off is with an electric over a clutch fan.
@@jimdavidson5208 Uhh... no, you are wrong. Those blue ScotchLoks are rated at a max recommended current of 15 Amps, using 14 AWG wire. But beyond that, I was referring to his miserable choice to use ScotchLoks in an automotive environment, due to their failure rate and tendency to create issues. LOL? WSF
@@jimdavidson5208 Sorry if my response was misconstrued, but I did laugh when I read your first reply. I just have a severe disdain for ScotchLoks and electrical tape when used in permanent automotive installs/repairs, and wish people would not use either, except for temporary or roadside repairs....
Great description. In my experience was the same deal. I had a Ford Ranger that somebody had scabbed in a huge electric fan and I ended up by going back old school with the Shroud and the original clutch fan. The AC started to work better and with always pulling air through the coil. I eventually just put a 12in electric fan in front of everything to assist it and not have to buy an alternator and and and and and. It was very cost-effective and it took the temperature down about ten degrees in the summertime
"most people do". Been working on cars for nearly 40 years and I've NEVER seen anybody change the pully size on an alternator. Pully change yes, size no.
Roy Blackburn well that’s true, not the only reason I want electric fans, they’re quieter, I would love to get rid of my fan clutch, it fouls my water pump more often.
Engine Masters did a dyno comparison with different cooling fan setups, if I recall a standard clutch fan reduced hp by about 15% and a fixed fan reduced hp by around 30%. Food for thought for those looking for hp gains.
Exactly what I was thinking. I've installed 3 sets in the past with absolutely zero fuse melting issues. Obviously you have to know before installing them they draw more power than a stock can handle. That's like installing a 1k+ rms watt stereo amp and expecting it to keep up 🙄
Good, honest assessment. I've struggled with AC performance (and, to some extent, engine cooling) on my 93 C2500 Suburban (454) as well. Here are some ideas for other GMT400 owners, based on my experience. First and foremost, CLEAN OUT YOUR EVAPORATOR BOX! Our trucks don't have cabin air filters, so all the crud that comes down into the box from outside just gets minced by the blower fan and ends up blocking the evaporator. You have to remove the blower motor to get in there and clean it out, but it's worth it. I noticed MUCH cooler AC temps after cleaning out decades of dirt and pine needles blocking the evaporator. Second, my truck came from factory with an additional pusher fan in front of the condenser. It looks like something that could easily be added to trucks that did not come with it. From the factory, it's wired to come on whenever the engine hits a certain temp (most likely to help the oil cooler) but I wired mine to come on whenever the AC condenser is on, kinda like Jimmy in this video. The stock alternator can handle this just fine. Last, after making sure your fan clutch is working, consider a clutch fan with more blades from a newer truck. On 454s, the trucks in the late 90s came with a fan with much more blades than stock, and it bolts right in place. All this, plus ensuring that the stock AC system has no leaks and is perforiming properly, has made a big difference in my truck. It still climbs to 210 in traffic, but the AC blows cold all the time.
Michael White I just want to add to your excellent suggestions. 454s from 91+ changed the coolant flow through the heads from series to parallel flow. This helped immensely with the cooling issues most Mark IV big blocks had in these trucks. Especially the ‘88-90 trucks. This was the most significant difference between the Mark IV and Gen V big blocks. If you have an auto trans, idling in P or N helps a bit with cooling and AC performance in traffic too.
I have a Alternator rebuild shop and DIY engineers are a pain in my ass. You don't need 240 amp to run fans. Honda did it with 80 amps. Those fans you have also blow hot air directly on the alternator and that will over heat the unit. The wiring in this video tells the tale. I also tell people that the engine has plenty of power to run a nice fan. The Higher amp alternator also take more engine power to run. Electric fans were mostly used when the engine was transverse and so it was impossible to run a fan belt system. So I agree with the title of this video and nice job on explaining the system.
This is an interesting video for the instances where a vehicle is originally equipped with a belt driven thermostatic clutch fan and the owner wants to convert to an electric fan for the engine radiator and air conditioner condenser. However a lot of cars today come equipped with electric fans on the radiator as part of the manufacturers design. In these cases the system works with out problems.
@T T 1. They're not lead, they're usually Zinc. 2. Most of them will still carry 4/5ths of their rated current at 100c. Even if it was straight-up boiling hot in there, he still would have had 5% more capacity than his rated draw.
I have both electric and the belt fan. Vegas gets hot and the air conditioner cuts out at stop lights so the electric fan really helps. Just make sure you wire up and override to allow you to keep them on. A lot of times the compressor switch will flip them on and off.
@@tylerchapin2011 Yes easy to install. I did have to remove the shroud. also had to build some mount brackets since you can't screw it into the radiator. But enough room for the original fan and the electric fan
Good video, I've been thinking about doing an electric fan conversion on my 93 toyota pickup, now I see it is probably not worth it. Another thing I like about the stock clutch fan is that if the clutch fails I can take a couple of zip ties and fasten the fan to the clutch body and make it home. Sometimes simple is better.
I live in las Vegas and with the correct set of E fans things are beautiful. You need computer controlled fans . You basically need to know what you are doing. Now this guy knows and learned the hard way.
I'm amazed all the people that have installed electric fans on you tube they throw the old fan shroud away without thinking there is a reason why the whole raditator is covered not just where the electric blades straw verses funnel
@I Paid you need to go look again. Every OEM fan that I've seen have shrouds. Usually for ducting and also to keep morons from trying to lick the fan blades. Every idiot is a liability.
I gotta protest here. I have heard of people having issues just as you're saying, and I'm sure it happens. I have e-faned many machines I've had and never had these issues. The issues I've found on many cases was cheap relays, or bad/lazy wiring. Once done the right way, it cools like a champ!
I agree with many of you. Lots of misinfo here. A huge alternator is not the fix for lack of idle amperage. Try an overdrive pulley on the alternator. Also, you shouldnt need 2 huge fans running full speed at idle, even with ac. Fuses don't blow from an alternator being underrated. 2 ga wire is RIDICULOUS overkill for fans.
Fuses don't blow from an alternator being underrated. OMG that cracked me up. I stopped it at 1 min. just scanning comments before I leave. Glad I didn't waste 16 min of my life here.
I just mentioned that for the 30 amp load he’s saying he’s running, #8 wire would probably be absolutely fine for the short distances he’s running the wiring.
The air coming out of the dash of just about any vehicle will begin to warm somewhat whenever the vehicle is sitting in traffic. This is more noticeable on older vehicles with an engine driven fan. However this isn’t caused solely by a lack of air flow through the A/C condenser and shouldn’t cause the A/C to quit working all together. The A/C compressor is driven off the engine’s crankshaft and varies in speed with the engine. The compressor capacity is reduced as its speed is reduced. As its capacity is reduced by lower speed, so is the required amount of airflow through the A/C condenser. I’m sure this and pretty much all vehicles are designed to have the A/C to work satisfactory under these conditions as built. When it doesn’t that usually means something is broken, not maintained properly or is being used in a manner beyond its capacity. The proper first step would have been to clean the A/C condenser and radiator. Next would have been to make sure the clutch on the fan is operating properly. The thermal clutch on the center of the fan will eventually wear out. The clutch allows the fan to freewheel when the air is cool and it engages the fan more and more as the temperature rises. The clutch usually fails in a manner which the fan just free wheels constantly. Then have the A/C system checked for proper charge and performance. His mentioning at the end of the flickering indicator should have been his first clue. If the indicator is flickering he should have checked the clutch on his compressor. The clutch is like an electromagnet that makes the compressor spin with the belt when turned on. If it is getting a flickering voltage the clutch wouldn’t be fully engaged causing slipping in the compressor’s engagement to the pulley and greatly reducing the capacity of the A/C system which would be most notable when sitting in traffic when the engine is idling. I understand the intent of the video as it does give some pointers on what to expect when you modify something on your vehicle. That being it is rare that you can just bolt something on without it affecting something else. If you want to upgrade the performance of something you have to look at the big picture because this upgrade may expose a weakness in a related system. I wasn’t trying to be disrespectful, just explaining how I would have approached the original issue.
@720 man Electric fans take only one horsepower to run. A clutch fan takes 24-30 horsepower. That old suburban only had about 250hp. So an extra 25hp would be noticeable.
@720 man It is Engine Masters episode 20 from "Season 2". I saw it on MotorTrend's UA-cam channel, but I can't find it there now. It looks like they have pulled all the full episodes off of their channel. Only the previews remain. It's on MotorTrendOnDemand now. But I'm watching episode 20 again right now and they haven't asked me for any money yet.
I did the same thing with twin screws. I had the suburban serviced and they didn’t put the belt on correctly. When it came off in the middle of nowhere it saved me - those fans kept convection cooling from overheating the thing without the water pump working. Ice cold a/c too, when the belt is in place.
The biggest problem with this setup is how he hooked it into the AC clutch so the fans will be constantly turning on and off every few seconds. When the fans start they will draw more current than the rated 28 running amps, maybe like 50 amps to start. The fuse isn't designed to protect huge intermittent switched loads like that, so that's why it melted. He needs to add time delay that will run the fans for 1-2 minutes after the clutch shuts off so the fans stay running across clutch cycles. This is how it works on modern cars, the fans run constantly at a low speed when the AC is turned on.
Would a capacitor in the circuit help with this? Where would this go in the typical fan circuit using a relay to switch on when AC clutch or temp probe opens the relay?
I'm a little confused about the fuses blowing. They are basically pieces of wire that heat up and burn open above a certain amount of power applied. Not sure why insufficient power on the alternator would burn up a fuse. I hope they were slo-blows because you need to account for the 100mS or so of inrush current needed to get the fan motors going.
You should have kept the original fan and installed a small electric fan on the ac condenser, which will only activate when you switch on the AC. Worked well on my chrysler
Not sure if your ex military but it sure sounds like it....let's take a simple problem and make it as complicated as possible....lol. Simplest way is get a set of cooling fans for m the junk yard, buy an electric cooling fan controller and here's the kicker...follow the instructions!!! Under $150 and will work fine.
when i installed 2 extra 80-watt auxiliary fans in my honda fit, i attached them to 2 separate wiring harnesses that were meant for fog lights good for 20 amps each. depending on the temperature i just turn them on individually as needed. Both fog light wiring harnesses have a fuse and a relay switch which protects my other electrical devices. other upgrades i did to the car that may have improved my alternator power headroom are LED lights and a voltage stabilizer. Everything works awesome here in the Philippines where it gets particularly hot in the summer. My air conditioning had an awesome boost in cooling too because of these
Or he could’ve just diagnosed why the factory system wasn’t providing proper condenser airflow at red lights like every other 95 suburban in Las Vegas did brand new.
Just two day ago I upgraded (or maybe just call it swapped) the clutch fan with an electric. The car is a Mercedes W124 300E with a 115A alternator as stamped on it. The stock is 70A but I upgraded it a while back (used for $80 USD) so it was not part of this conversion. I took it to my indie MB electrician to install it. The fan I used (dual setup) is an original new part from a Chinese car maker called Geely. Chinese, but original form a global manufacturer, so I think it will last. Total cost was ~$255 USD. Where I live temps could reach ~50C in some good days. +45C is not unheard of in summer and +40C is common. Coolant temp improved drastically and AC a little. The fan runs at two speed, low at 85-80C and high at 100-95C. There was a front aux fan (dual setup) already and I did not remove it. I kept it to run at low speed with the AC switch and high with refrigerant pressure. I tested it today at 42C ambient for like an hour mixed drive and it worked great. Relays are original MB parts. I will always keep the clutch+fan in the truck as a precaution. They are easy to install should a worse case scenario present itself. Have a nice day!
Thank you for sharing your experience. I would have done two things differently. First, I would have installed an automatic reset circuit breaker rather than a fuse. Second, I would not used the scotchlok on the compressor clutch wire; I would have used a pressure switch in the high-side refrigerant line. Those changes would alleviate concern about melting fuses and refine the operation so you can achieve maximum efficiency. I am editing to clarify. An A/C shop can fabricate a tee fitting to accommodate the high pressure cutoff switch that is part of the factory system along with the pressure switch for the fans. This is not unlike the control system of the Horton Corsair fan clutch in my truck.
He could have added an additional battery, in parallel, and never had the drama. I did this on a 83 GMC Suburban, to accommodate for a Western Snow Plow's high current draw, to its hydraulic pump's electric motor. The stock alternator was able to charge both batteries fine.
Im about to put in an electric fan on a 47 panel truck where i dont have enough room for the belt fan, how do you wire in the second battery for a novice
@@blakenorman4822 Oreillys sells Clamps and both Positive (red) 2 Gauge Wire/Harness, and Negative (black) 2 Gauge Wire/Harness. Run a new wire between both batteries. Red to Red. Black to Black. That's all you have to do.
Your video is great , Everything is good and your not afraid to try different things , Also the people who actually contributed great information to the actual problem solving really helps others .
Add a soft-start device for the fans and no more blown fuses (fans tend to draw x3 Amperes when they start from stable position)(same problem as cheap angle grinders) :)
Dude you failed to add appropriate relays and if your fans pulled so hard as to melt wiring and fuses you didn't set system up properly. Your adding control wiring was added in wrong area. As for cooling your fans should not Max out a 105 amp alternator. Heck I set my big block Monte Carlo with a single cooling fan off a 91 Cavalier application and used 120 amp alternator for my stereo. No blown fuses, melted wiring. Your research was incomplete and execution failure. Proper power and ground through relays should keep your temps cool and fans functional for years.
The stock electric fan in our Jeep Liberty, 2008, has been 100% trouble free for 180,000 miles, rock steady thermostat. I only added the mechanical fan for when we are towing our camper.
So, every car manufacturer in the world is wrong. Your battery is your power source. The alternator recharges your battery. The “cool factor “ of hearing your fans run after you shut the key off is killing the battery. I have installed electric fans on many vehicles. Used a 100 amp alternator and a 1500 amp battery (Oddssey). Wire them to come on only when the engine is running, engine temperature is 10 to 15 degrees or more than the thermostat or the a/c is on. Never had your problems. Worked at my father radiator shop in Las Vegas NV.
You've got that bass-akwards, the alternator supplies all your electrical needs AFTER the car is started, recharging the battery is basically a side effect of that process. The battery is NOT needed after the vehicle is running. When an alternator fails then everything reverts to running off of the battery. Also, a thermostat doesn't keep an engine from overheating, it forces the engine to heat up and run in a specific window of operation. Furthermore, an A/C doesn't cool the inside of your vehicle, it removes the heat from the air. Last but not least, there is no such thing as darkness, it's "absence of light" !
Some of your post is incorrect but you are right that you dont need the fans to run after you shut off the car. I put electric fans on my 84 Camaro and wired it to shut off when car was off.
@@jameswalls9468 if you remove the heat then yeah you are cooling. darkness is the absence of light but it is still darkness. don't be such a stickler.
Sorry you are wrong. The battery picks up any short high power requirements the alternator can't handle such as two electric fans coming on while the cabin fan is running and the lights are on. Add up those amps and you will find they temporarily exceed the output of most alternators especially at idle.
Scotch Locks + Small gauge wire = HEAT.. This is simply the result of a bad electrical setup overall, Not representative of good quality electric fan installations.
Hey bro I appreciate your concern but that scotchlok was only used as a signal from the AC compressor to the computer for the fans to know when to kick on it was not power for the fans.
Still this is heat and heat is generated by resistance from a wire that is not capable of sustaining the average amperage draw of those fans... Ive seen this issue a million times in high power audio systems, I install the electric setups for alternators and this is far too common on the el-cheapo 10dll audio kit install… Melting wires and melting fuses without actually blowing them.
The reason for this is because those wires are overheating and transferring all the heat to plastics that are not made to handle those temps, In this case the fuse holder which is probably made out of ABS Plastic with a low melting point. The fuse holders we use are fiber reinforced with a melting point of over 400°C this is mated to a wire gauge that must be at least 2x rated to that of the average amp draw. This reduces the risk of overheating the wire and fuse holder failure… My advice is to simply re-do the installation now using a beefier gauge wire and a fuse holder rated for high heat. Now your points of fan failures are still valid though, But this whole issue is NOT caused by the fans themselves, its the electric setup that is the problem.
I installed a 10” and 12” mishimoto racing fans on a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 hemi to replace the disaster hydraulic fan which failed causing one of the heads to drop a valve seat. Fans pull 1600/1800 cfm and use 10/14 amps. Wired to a VW dual temp sensor mounted in radiator hose. Used 10 gage GLX wire and relays rated at 25 amps continuous one for each fan. Wired into existing jeep fuse box spare spots. Fans are also wired independent of ICU and use AC clutch power to activate both fans and/or temp switch without ac two run one or both depending upon engine coolant temp. In stop and go city driving with ac off only one fan has ever had to come on but im sure if 4x4 low range im sure both fans would come on. So im not quiet understanding why the alternator on your vehicle cant handle the amp draw this install runs flawlessly doesnt hurt i also installed an all aluminum radiator as well but sounds like you vought inferior parts to be having those issues. 24 amps for both fans isnt that much and stock alternator should be able to handle.
18 years ago I installed similar FlexLite model 292 on my 03 GMC sierra 1500 with a stock alternator, to this day I have never had one problem and many benefits, quieter operation, much quicker warm-up, more horsepower, better fuel economy, my fans only come on while sitting in traffic on a hot summer day other than that they never have to run ,much easier to work on the serpentine belt and everything else between the radiator in the engine, absolutely no drawbacks
I tried to convert to e-fans and I wasn't impressed. Switched it back to the stock clutch fan with a small aux-fan in front of the condenser and haven't looked back.
HEY JIMMY THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP THEY WAS ON MY RADAR..BUT I THINK I WILL PASS MY04 YUKON IS GOOD WITH THE CLUCH FAN..AND I LIKE LOTS OF BASS..SO NO EL FANS FOR NOW...GREAT VID
Hmmm title should read "Electric fans not suitable for people who 1) don't understand automotive electrical systems, and 2) don't understand cooling systems." Most newer cars have electric fans for improved efficiency and power, and run 120 amp range alternators from the factory.
Exactly. Gee, do you think the manufacturers are stupid for installing electric fans? And the guy is clearly asking for a fight with the title of his video. Some people should support their local mechanics and never open the hoods themselves.
My hats off to the few and far in between who've decided to not hate here. It takes a REAL man or woman to hold their tongue even if they find this information contrary to their own knowledge. It also takes a REAL man or woman to, if they absolutely must, leave a constructive comment. I never claimed to be a professional technician. I AM, however, doing my best to make great content. The intent of this video was to show the pros and cons of an electric fan setup. Clearly this was aimed at beginners. I hope some of you can relate with me. But, if not, I hope you can leave constructive criticism at most and leave your negative, hateful comments locked tightly in your fingers. Thank you all!
You said you " had a child and a wife" are you and them ok?
My thoughts on the haters, if you can't say something nice or constructive, keep your mouth shut. Big fan of yours, Jimmy. Learned a lot from you. I'm looking into putting a single fan on my 91 Silverado to see if it will help with keeping my old boy cooler in the blazing heat.
Not a hater but you may want to consider not making videos on stuff you don't know anything about. You will get criticized for them. UA-cam is chock full of trolls but I'd hate to say they aren't the only ones giving you a rash of sh1t. Good luck on picking better content for future videos.
You say "The intent of this video was to show the pros and cons of an electric fan setup", but the title of the video says you should NEVER install an electric fan, implying that the intent of this video was never to show it's pros.
However, the video content itself was very informative, and I enjoyed your insight. The only change I would make is to stop telling people to NEVER do something that actually works just fine in many situations. Circumstance is important. Weak alternator, low load? Yeah, of course mechanical is better. Powerful alternator, very low driving speed and very high load? The electric fan is obviously better.
@@knox7095 All good
As an electrician - there's some stuff that needs addressed here:
1. "Hot idle" rating for an alternator isn't a thing. If you select the wrong alternator and pulley setup, you might not be turning it fast enough, you won't get your excitation field and your 140A alternator won't produce much power at all. That's the sort of thing that normally gets fixed with an idle regulator and voltage feedback loop. If the engine computer sees the voltage sag, it opens up the fast idle valve. That's basically the way the big three have been doing it since the late 80s. Sometimes they change the alternator design after testing shows they're using the idle kick too much. Often, they just put a smaller pulley on the alt so it spins faster at low idle. (Looking at you, F150 Tritons...)
2. Early 80's VW's have 30A cooling fans (and 30A rear window defrosters!) Their alternators are usually rated for about 85 amps. It's a simple circuit, passes through a thermal switch in the radiator and through the fuse block. The wire's about 12g. It's not complex or difficult to replicate. You don't need an alternator that's rated for literally twice the peak current draw of the entire vehicle. Even aircraft only go over by about 20%.
3. If you're blowing a 40A fuse with a device that's only supposed to draw 30, then you have either a defective part or a wiring fault, end of story. A weak alternator could have a voltage sag below 12v and then, technically, sort of, almost, you could probably make it so that 30A fan was drawing more current because of the lower voltage... assuming your battery had failed as well. I just about guarantee - that's not what happened.
As for benefits - Meh. I mean, the power has to come from somewhere. If you have a mechanical fan with a fluid coupler, you're gonna feel the drag all the time. If it's directly coupled, you have harmonics to deal with, additional rotating mass that will effect your RPM pick-up and, just like the fluid-coupled fan, you'll be producing drag all the time.
If you have electric fans with a thermal switch, then you'll have additional drag on the alternator and you'll feel it pretty much the same as with the mechanical fans, but only when they're running, which they won't do (usually) on the freeway so they're at least good for boosting freeway mileage, even if just a little.
Electric fans with good motors are usually heavier than directly coupled fans and about the same weight as a fluid-coupled fan.
I always install electrics and it has nothing to do with a cool factor or fuel efficiency or even cooling effectiveness. I use electrics because I never, ever, want to have to pull out a mangled cat from my radiator shroud again. YMMV.
hahaha so much legit practical information/critiques.. then the goddamn cat lololol.. you engineer bunch are a funny crowd.
I agree with everything you had to say except about the hot idle. It's been proven that as alternators get hotter, they put out less power. Also, when your vehicle is idling obviously its spinning the alternator slower and will put out less power. Even with a hairpin alternator.
One funny thing about them engine driven fans is that, during the fall seasons, theres always like a "mini tornado" right under the hood with the leaves and what have you... :D
Your comment just made me remove my electric fan, I was wondering why the cat problem was so bad LOL
@@mbl2012 but if it's getting hot enough that the heat soak is dropping voltage that much, then there's a major issue in there. The whole set up is overheating. Go buy an rc car and do a burn out untill it starts to slow down, then keep going and see what happens. It'll smoke up, but it only slowed a few seconds before the smoke. That heat soak shouldn't be allowed to go that far and if that's happening then airflow isn't there. Hot idle won't drop voltage that much, severe heat soak will though.
The title should read "Why you should ALWAYS do your homework before buying and installing aftermarket parts"
Nothing hard about it. You take the cfm number you need and find an electric fan to match it.
@@KeeganClimo my belt driven fan was 35cm from blade to blade and my new electric fan is 40cm.
That would mean that it's sufficient enough? Also i live in Finland and summer lasts like 3 minutes and winter 11 months 😂🔫
Youre thinking centimeters. Im talking about cfm. Cubic feet per minute in terms of the amount of air moved by the fan not the length of the blades sorry
@@KeeganClimo i know what you meant but my comment was just about how my new fan i much larger and spins faster aka should maybe move more air through the radiator?
Belt driven was spinning slow while car was idling. New electric one can spin the max speed while I'm stationary, if i want that.
Ahh gotcha. Yeah more surface area should translate into more flow especially at a stand still since the electric keeps moving air. I misunderstood where you were going with that at first.
When my dad and I rebuilt a 69 c10, we used a dual electric fan setup and radiator from ron Davis. We had a lot of the same issues you're describing here. Through lots of trouble shooting and killing our high-horsepower engine at idle, even with a 280 amp alternator, we found the one thing that really made the biggest difference. A second battery, wired parallel to the original. Positive to positive, and negative to a good ground. If you're going to keep the circuit at 12 volts, this is the way you have to connect them. Effectively, your doubling the "depth" of the battery, giving you a larger duty cycle or more amps stored up for large power draws like the dual fans. I'm no expert on the specifics of how this worked, but all of this is based purely on experience. It really helped to have another battery for the fans to draw current from.
having an overdrive pulley probably would have solved your issue.
Your blowing fuses has nothing to do with your alternator being weak. 50 amp fuse takes 50 amps to pop the fuse. You pushing more power with a larger alternator is going to have the same result. The wires are melting because the wire gage is not rated for the constant high current . Run a fuse to two 30 amp relays and wire the fans independently with 30 amp fuses with larger gauge wire. Your pos and negative wire should be the same size so you have minimal resistance. Hope this helps you or someone else.
He said the fans are 30 amps (i confirmed this and it is for both fans) and he popped 40 and 50 amp fuses. His wiring is good. He is messed up with his understanding of amps as you are. Resistance will melt wiring because of heat degradation, but resistance will not pop the fuse. The fuse will never ever pop unless at least 30 amps go threw it. He is pulling to much of a load for some reason or another. Either a fault with the components themselves, or it is not wired correctly. What you say to do is as stupid as the video is. I just watched your iphone video on your channel. And to think your a grown adult. Shame shame. Spamtard. YOU spam tard.
Correct. Just got done with this on my mustang. I used a heavier gauge from the battery with a 70amp fuse ran to 3 30 amp relays that only need switched power signal to operate, one for the AC override and 2 for the fans. Ground pins all come into one wire that I mounted to chassis ground. I also am not a fan of radiator probes. I installed a 3/8 npt temperature sensor into the thermostat housing. An intake manifold coolant jacket would be more accurate, but this is still 10x more accurate than a probe
@@JOHNDANIEL1 Not true the way you are thinking of it. If you have zero volts how many amps do you have????? Which side of the circuit are you thinking of? The fuse is directly in the middle. The fuse is like a dam in a river and is the exact middle of the pass of energy. If the electricity/energy does not pass through it, the fuse will not pop. Think of a river from way up north that flows down south as gravity makes the water move. Think of a dam in the river. This is concept stuff. Water, air and electricity are all pretty much the same. Were we really get stuck is we don't know what gravity is or really what goes on inside an atom.
For electricity I think of voltage as the speed in which electrons move, and amps as how many electrons move. Resistance is the opposition of the two.
If you have zero volts, how many amps do you have?
@@topmodstv3682 Not correct. I really don't know what you did to your car but I bet it should not have been done. See the comment thread starter below from brittany freeman
4 days ago
Nando is right. Fuses are there to protect the wiring nothing to do with the fans.
If I may add some constructive criticism. I'm sure these points have already been made in the comment section but I digress.
Your comments about the alternator and needing to upgrade I agree with completely. However to say you need an expensive $300+ alternator with a max amperage in the 200s range simply isn't true. It's not about how much amperage the alternator is capable of making total, but what it makes where and when you need it. I can buy an aftermarket let's say DB Electric alternator just as an example so these aren't actual numbers, that makes 200 total amps, but only makes those amps at let's say 5000 RPM. Where as it may only make let's say 65 amps at 800. Now let's take a 140amp DR44 Delphi and again just spit balling numbers here but that alternator even though it makes a lower total, can make 100+ at 800 rpm.
An alternator isn't just a thing where the more money you spend the better it's going to work.
But I will say great job pointing out the big 3 upgrade. Many people skimp out on this. However this also applies to your fan wiring.
I understand the fan controller was paired with the fans however I don't ever recommend using one. More often than not the wiring is too light, and heat can build as a result. You're better off grabbing a couple relays and temp probe. Build your own harness.
If anyone actually takes the time to read this comment because I doubt anyone will, an electric fan is an amazing upgrade for anything from your daily driver all the way to your weekend toys.
A proper install is key.
I read it and wise words this video is a joke I'm always amazed at idiots with enough time to make incorrect videos....
You make a great point. Many people fail to realize that the RPM is the alternator’s RPM which is dependent on the pulley size ratio between the crankshaft and alternator. The engine rpm is not the same.
I was having the same issue with a discharge at idle until I replaced the stock alternator pulley with a smaller one which increased the alternator’s RPM. At idle, my alternator is NOW putting out the amperage needed to run my Windstar fans on my conversion. I did the math to ensure I got the smallest pulley I could while staying in the maximum rpm range for my alternator.
When doing an alternator conversion you must consider the power curve for the ALTERNATOR’s RPM as a function of the vehicle’s rpm.
@@mark8012 Okay but you are essentially overclocking the alternator, which especially in a hot climate, will tend to wear out the bearings, diodes, and regulator, so you're buying a new alternator anyway and possibly much more often. Maximum RPM range does not mean everything is okay if you run closer to that RPM. It means don't ever for a moment exceed it. Automakers would have loved to just give you a smaller, lighter, cheaper alternator stock from the factory if all it took was putting a smaller pulley on it.
On the other hand, even a stock alternator setup is going to fail eventually, so unless what you have is pretty new/recent repair, it's not entirely extra cost as you've got a full alternator life ahead on the replacement if it is sized appropriately instead of pulley swap-overclocked. You can get a 200A alternator for around $250 which isn't that much higher cost than a 130A.
Malibu, something is funny if your 140A DR44 alternator example is putting out 100+A at 800 RPM. Do you have a current vs RPM graph I could look at for it? Oh wait! You probably mean 800 RPM ENGINE speed so we're talking about double that for the alternator RPM? I don't ever rate them that way since there are people who change their pulley ratios. Anyway that would be a very unusual alternator to make over 70% of its peak rated output at a mere 1600RPM alternator shaft speed.
Regardless I feel a 200A alternator is about right for this application because that's what I'm seeing car manufacturers put on trucks with electric fans, Granted I don't know what engine he has in his so it may vary some but I doubt all that much when sitting idle at a stop light which he kept mentioning as a primary concern, when the drive thru mentioned later would be more stressful as a longer event at idle.
Automakers must have tested this and decided upping the amperage rather than just throwing a special alternator or smaller pulley on was either the most cost effective or longer lasting option if not both (probable). Then again, it seems like his fans are overkill and a radiator with another row would have helped efficiency. It shouldn't need both fans going 100% when sitting idling.
Stinky Cheese lol I straight up said in my comment those wasn't real numbers. But thank you for your reply. I'm aware of the differences between engine RPM and Accessory RPM.
Larger battery would help a lot. Run separate fuses to each fan. Change to pulley on the alternator so it turns faster. Factory setup is that one fan will engage with AC, both fans engage with temperature. Rather than having the AC fan cycle with the AC clutch it might be better to figure out a way to have the AC fan running full time anytime the AC system is on.
Agreed, in fact the instruction sheet that came with my 280 setup has a diagram where the battery is labelled "Secondary Battery" which implies that you have two.....IMO.
Each fan should be on a seperate relay. You can turn on one fan relay when you turn on the AC.
@@cuzz63 I usually wire them with separate relays but using NO/NC relays you can wire them so that the AC will always run one fan and the engine temp will run both fans.
You had a bad fan clutch.
If you do install electric fans, be sure to use a heavy duty relay to transfer full fused battery voltage when activated by a temperature sensor that closes the relay ground circuit when needed. Power the relays positive control side by fused ignition switch circuit. You can use a second relay to close the fan relay control circuit when the AC is turned on and high side pressure needs to be reduced.
All new vehicles use electric fans, most with 110-130 amp alternators and 5 times as many modules as your old truck.
If your blowing or melting fuses, something is wrong, likely a bad connection which generates heat or a wire gauge too small.
...a weak alternator would cause a battery to go dead or discharge until you accelerated again.
Jim Myers
I think wires for the fan is way too thin
Even heavy duty city buses use electric fans these days
I agree
@@fargeeks heck - mostly all Vehicles have ELECTRICAL FANS 🤔
Those fans need two seperate relays, with two separate circuits.. one for each fan. I will be making a video on this shortly
i put 2 of 120amp heavy duty relay on the fan, using 8 Awg , upgrading from mechanical clutch fan to electri fan.. for my W140 97, S320 Mercedes..its works fine.. so far..hahaha
Did you make that video
no they don't, you can wire them in one loop, to one bigger relay
@@williamhussey1611 just because you can doesn't mean you should. You don't need both fans running together constantly. A factory setup has a high speed and low speed.
Good video. One extra thing: electric motors are defined as a "inductive load". And automobiles operate on Direct Current. Every time the cooling turn off, they send a reverse voltage spike into the electrical system. On most systems (with motors or electromagnetic devices) they place a diode accross the power terminals to release that energy.
Blowing 60 amp fuses? = Bad installation
yea, melting too? Jesus
I have 99z71 with ls2 the e fans worth every $$$ no problem
yea, and the solution? BIGGER FUSE! LMFAO literally the only wrong answer.
I wish he would say not to follow his instillation. So many mistakes
Dude must have an intermittent short to ground.
Bad info here, I did e fan upgrade on my 96 suburban. No upgrades to the alternator. No issues after the initial installation. All that is needed is a quality installation with good grounds and proper wiring. My 07 has 2 e fans stock and and still not running a 240amp alt. For people watching this video e fan is the way to go installed properly not scary or cost expensive.
What fans did you use on the 96?
...And another example of why battery power, rather than alternator power, is correct -- because that's what the car makers do.
For small vehicles it's good but they can't pull no where near the cfm that a big V8 gas or large diesel when towing a 14,000 pound trailer. 6.0 Powerstroke fans pull up around 10k cfm through the radiator.
When clutch is completely locked up it spins more rpm than the Engine itself.
living in a desert
So what’s the result?
living in a desert
I heard and read multiple times that clutch fan is better for heavy duty trucks. GM is still using them in new diesel 2500+ trucks. I bought a mustang GT500 e-fan (13-14 5.8 super charge) 9 months ago to swap in my 4.0 v6 Nissan, but still not sure if I wanna do it lol.
The thermostat in your engine coolant needs to be the same as the settings on your fan when it kicks in. Most newer cars have a thermostat set at 195 to 205° so you’re 185 fan kick-in will interfere with the engine getting up to operating temperature. You should reprogram the fan kick in switch or change thermostats to match one another. That could help keep the fans from running unnecessarily and possibly save your fuses.
I agree
Glad someone caught on to this.
Changed my t stat to 185 but was having a hard time wity set points..
It actually should be 195 to match a kit I was looking at...
He mentions his has adjustable set points..
His kit is Probably out of my price range.
I heard an older ford taurus fan has low and high speeds which is an interesting concept that may possibly lower amp draw when high speed is not needed... giving the circuit and components time to cool. Only thing I want electric is for a few more horsepower on entrance ramps on hills to highway or as I am looking for a spot on a hill to change lanes cause I had to get around a dump truck or garbage hauler...
Placing the temperature sensor at the radiator Outflow and, turn on point to even 175 assure adequate cooling without over cooling.
When you change to a lower temperature thermostat (160-180°F), condensation in the transmission fluid doesn't evaporate ("boil off") as rapidly. ...it builds up. Especially if you drive a lot of short trips. To the extent that yir automatic transmission burns up clutches faster. If you have a manual transmission, this problem doesn't exist. So be wary of this.
Usually thermostatically controlled fans are supposed to kick in at the higher temperature range. If you have a 180F coolant thermostat, the Electric fan should kick in at around 210F and shutoff at around 190F, at least that's how I've seen it done on cars with factory electric fans.
I'll say this just from being a technician. I've done this conversion a few times. And the main thing you have to worry about is cubic feet per minute. If you're not pumping the same or more air than the fan clutch was pumping then it's not going to cool the car down. And also the other things a dual fan setup. Because you want a fan that turns on when you just got the AC running that'll keep your condenser cool but not have your car running so cool that it interferes with engine performance. But then you also want the second fan in case all hell breaks loose and it gets super hot and you need to just cool it down. But and you also need to have it disconnected from the engines other harnesses and wiring. It needs to be on its own independent circuit it does draw a lot of power but most of the vehicles that would need this setup can handle it if it's installed properly. And the other thing is making sure that your controller cut the fans on at the correct temperature. If it's too high you're going to have overheating issues if it's too low it'll interfere with engine performance and the proper way the engine is supposed to be ran
Installed a dual electric fan(flex-a-lite) on my 2001 GMC truck, it was the best thing I ever did to the truck! Had absolutely no problems... but to each his own.
Did you install?
IVE been running Black Magic fans since 2003.
I live in Las Vegas. I installed a dual electric fan set on my F150 as a supplement to the clutch fan and wired them to a relay to only come on with the A/C compressor. Worked fine
Out of interest, where did you fit them assuming the clutch fan was still fitted? And also, are they pusher or pullers? Thanks.
I own a 95 SUBURBAN to up here in Ontario Canada, the truck never overheats and still runs great,best beast Ive ever owned love the old girl
Same here! Got a 96 Suburban in S Texas. Never runs hot still running strong daily driver!
That's because the sun never shines up there
@@drunkbillygoat explain the texas guy though
Get a 99 ! -06 tahoe!! The best ever made
Come on man 🤦🏻♂️ I watched this because I was curious as to why someone would say stay away from electric fans. Then I realized the guy did it all wrong.
Not really. I didn't spot a nail or bolt instead of blown 50 fuse.
Other than that I had fun time.
Right! First questions I had would be is, what gauge wires did he use and did he use any relays. And some of the wires look way too small.
660cc kei truck here, I replaced the clutch fan with a Mishimoto setup, no regrets.
Brothers I have a c10 with vortec engine one serpentine belt and it’s hell down here what are you suggesting for me
Welp, the title worked didn't it? Probably sucked everyone in.
The clutch was probably failing on the mechanical fan, so a stock replacement would have most likely done the job. You do live in a high stress environment though so you might have had to go with a higher pitch blade/stronger clutch combo to get the job done. With the electric fan route, a smaller alternator pulley is what you needed.
Yep
I live in Arizona and I run a HD fan clutch and a bigger /more blades fan and my temp never goes past 180. As soon as it hits 185 the fan races on and the temp drops like a brick in secs even pulling trailers. 97 Tahoe 350 vortec 277,000 miles and still runs perfect
@@dieselbossbrandon I've read that you should let your vehicle get to an optimal temp around 200 so that it burns the fuel properly. Have you noticed any draw backs with it running slightly cooler?
@@TheDookieMaster I honestly have not I have over 280,000 miles on my Chevy Tahoe that has a fan clutch on it and I have not had a single problem with it running under 200 degs even while pulling heavy trailers. Matter of fact I actually have had less problems with my truck by it running cooler than it running hotter. The fuel economy part I don't notice any difference between it running anywhere between 160 to 200 my fuel economy stays about the same. I've heard a lot of people say that if you run under $200 as well that you're feeling economy will drop I don't believe that's true I haven't had a huge change. I keep all my cars and trucks running around 180 gas and diesel powered. All have well over 200,000 miles on them. I haven't had a problem with either one due to cooling issues or fuel economy. There are people that say that you'll get sludge in your engine by running too cool that's not true either I haven't had that problem. I do do my oil changes regularly as well.
@@TheDookieMaster sorry my spell check is all over the place today bear with me 😂😂😂
Ok there is a simple $15 fix that would have stopped all of these problems. Bottom line is when you keep throwing parts at a problem and you don't understand the problem you'll never get it fixed.
Yes, the diagnosis is the most important part of HOW to attack a problem.
They will learn.
i PUNCH SOME HOLES ON THE THERMOSTAT AND MANUALLY TURN THE ELECTRIC FAN ON OR OFF
Proper tittle "You Should NEVER EVER INSTALL ELECTRIC FANS!!" when you don't have a clue about what you're doing...
Sorry all, but that's the most reasonable thing that came out of this video. ;-)
Cheers
Right thats y before he did all that he could have try a better fan blade that move more air than his stock blads
AI3xZJE41 YT or replace the dying fan clutch
I see....Ah, the expensive pitfalls of not having the faintest idea what you're doing.
Exact same thing I was thinking
@@genaro.cruz-vicario5301 RIght lets just throw parts at it and see what happens.... garbage ... nice camera tho
fking wrecked
Agreed.
Nowadays..98% of all vehicles use electric fans
A few things about electric fans. 1) in very hot weather the high side pressure on an AC system can go ballistic when driving slow in traffic. Damage to the system can happen. Rather than going to a complete electric fan system simply install a single pusher fan that will activate only when the AC compressor is functioning. This will help keep the AC condenser (the part that is in front of the radiator) cool. Works on most applications fairly well. 2) The extra surge while driving in traffic is likely due to the engine staying cooler rather than extra power due to the lack of an engine driven fan. Remember, an automobile engine is actually a heat engine and when the engine becomes terribly hot it looses efficiency (power). 3) A person can install a fan system themselves IF (a big if) they are well versed in DC circuitry (operation of relays, temp sensors, etc.). This video was informative and fairly well balanced (not a rant).
A really informative video. I made the mistake of wasting plenty of time and hundreds of dollars trying to get electric fans to operate dependably and that's a key word because I got them to work, just not where I could trust them. This was on my 67 Mustang with a spirited late model 5.0 V8 engine. I figured that I'd free up some horsepower. I already had an extra cooling, 3 row radiator and a high flow water pump. I bought the name brand fans, too, the same brand mentioned on the video and another brand, also. It didn't matter, I was always chasing an issue with my high performance car in Florida heat with electric cooling fans. The very last thing I wanted to do was to destroy my expensive engine because it had overheated. There was fan motor failure (brand new fan), relay failures, temperature sensor failures (or sensor settings not staying consistent) and then the alternator upgrades then battery upgrades, wiring upgrades, (including installing diodes to protect the alternator from voltage that can be generated from free-wheeling, non-energized fans). Then there was the chronic belt slippage caused by the sudden load spikes that hit the electrical system when the fans kicked in especially when my cammed up, loping engine sat at idle. I finally got tired of the time and money dedicated, along with the issues and returned to a super dependable clutch operated manual fan. I bought the clutch that is short and made for hotrodders, for extra room, because my aluminum radiator takes up more space than a stock copper radiator. Summit or Jeg's can set you up with one for the same price as a standard, longer one, if you need it. The clutch fan may drain a few horsepower, but at least I don't have to worry that the electric cooling fan will find another reason to fail in summer heat and traffic, which is a constant issue if you live in a large Florida city. If you've got an old school, carbureted engine that isn't wired to a programmable on board computer and it has the V-belt alternator drive, don't use an electric cooling fan for your engine. The only way that I found to possible cure the belt slippage would have been to invest more money and time in a serpentine belt drive for the alternator. Then again, that wouldn't be a guarantee of no belt slippage. I'm not saying that electric fans don't work, period, it's just that they can be temperamental, costly and not suitable for a V-belt drive alternator that puts out just over 100 amps without A/C.
the number one reason you should never ever ever listing to anything this guy is talking about . 1 the ac was shit because he needed a fan clutch. 2 its not a school bus you don't need a 30a fan. the 100a alternator should be good to run anything. 3 this is the second video that showed up in my feed filled with misinformation. and i highly doubt that he even wired the fan correctly.
How does anyone manage to be so wrong and so contradictory while sounding so confident, all at the same time. This is nonsense.
😂😂😂😂😂. True 😂😂😂
Yeah.. presenting pros, cons, and lessons learned is pretty ridiculous.
I agree --- electrical theory he has none.
weed?
I'd recommend a PWM fan controller. They work a lot better than the simple on/off controls for fans. Helps with in-rush current and is much easier on your alternator. It ramps fan from stop to the necessary speed to cool down the engine which doesn't always required full speed.
Scott ___ Does this reduce the need for an upgraded alternator, since the fan is used less often? I like to think that my battery is pretty good - its got a large reserve capacity. Perhaps it would be enough to compensate for the draw. I’d have to crunch the numbers. I also live in Ohio, so it’s not as though it gets particularly hot here. 95 is usually the tops for a week out of the summer.
@@markofexcellence5209
N1ck0145 Garage is correct. Your alternator will still need to provide enough current for the vehicle and it's factory electrical load plus the fans. You might be able to use a slightly lower current alternator, but when your vehicle runs the a/c, the PWM controller will ramp to max speed to keep the head pressure on the ac condensing coil within operating range and dissipate the heat. If you idle very long at low rpm you'll experience the same issues Jimmy did. The lower the voltage the higher the current and the warmer your wire will get until breaker trips, or fuse melts, or wires melt if your fuse or breaker is rated for higher current than your conductors (wiring). Good luck with your project, hopefully this helps.
I have a Derale PWM fan controller but heard after I bought it that some customers had issues with them. I will try mine but fit a couple manual on and off control switching.
definitely use a PWM at all cost. It'll save fan motors from mechanical wear. In-rush spike is 2 or 3 folds greater than run-time current while the rotor has not begun to spin.
HINT: fancy cars use PCM soft start on all high load/tork DC motors (FANS, windows, roof, fuel, steering column...)
If you run a home AC system, look into soft-starting the (single phase) compressor to save costs.
PWM all the way!!
Volvo fan relay works well. With a 96 bmw 325 dual temp fan sensor.
You need at least 5 alternators to run dual fans all of them at LEAST 250 amps
Good advice. I also run a second alternator, and I have a second starter wired in, along with running dual heads with cams just in case one fails. I'm in the process of routing a secondary heater core and engine right now
I legitimately appreciate your honestly admitting that you have made mistakes, it is quite refreshing compared to the people who say that everything they buy is great. I am sure that this has probably already been mentioned, but when a fuse MELTS like yours were, that is NOT a problem with the fuse or alternator, and it is probably not caused by an overload. What actually usually causes the plastic housing of a fuse to melt is a poor connection either between the fuse and the fuseholder, or a poor connection inside the fuseholder, such as spread out female terminals that don't grab the fuse tightly, So basically that means you need to get a different fuseholder, and make sure that the one you get is rated for at least 50 amps. On a motor application (such as fans), you need a fuseholder that is rated for more current than what the continuous load is because of the inrush current of the motors starting up since the motors will draw more current starting up than they will once they are running. I hope this helps you or someone else
well i will have to say this only made me want to buy electric fans for my truck even more
Thanks for your video! I was a GM Man unit 1996. My first car was a used 1960 Corvair In 1995. Then many Cars until my last New car an 1986 EuroSport wagon, and a used 1991 Cavalier. Once i tried a used Honda, my tinkering around with Cars really ended. I still did my own maintenance on my Cars, but veryfew repairs. My first car with an electric fan was a 1983 Buick Century with a 3.0L V6, it did have a fan problem, which after a lot of testing turned out to be a short to ground. Once repaired I added a manual turn on switch, this repaired all my problems. All of the Honda’s had 1 or 2 electric fans. None of these ever caused any problems, and never had any problrpems (7 cars since 1996). All sold with at least 137,000 miles (except 1), and the last 2 over 170,000 miles. I am currently driving a 2009 Honda CR-V with 127,000 miles with 0 repairs (bought new). None of these Honda’s had or have large or heavy gauge wiring. The Civics had one fan the Accord and CRV have 2 fans. None of these had larger alternators, nor was this an option. Strange, eh? Thanks….Jim
PS……seeing that GM is owned by China…..do you think it’s ok to buy foreign? I am currently on a Toyota kick (this may change), because of Honda’s change to small engines, turbos and CVTs…..which I will not buy. Toyota is still using non turbo engines and regular transmissions in the cars I like (purchased a new 2017 Toyota RAV4, FWD, 2.5L with 6 speed transmission, has 67,000 miles with no problems). Good luck.
A 30 amp system that is blowing 40 Amp fuses points to a problem in the fans themselves. There is no way that a healthy 30 amp system will pull 40 Amps. The system in my Jeep never had those problems and we live in New Orleans, while not as hot as Vegas, it is a humid heat, which reduces the cooling effect of the airflow. It is also a 30 Amp system that rarely pulls over 18 amps. Your fans were defective from the get go. I would worry about whatever problem they have going into complete failure mode and causing a fire.
The guy is running 10 gauge wire to pull 30 amps on dual fans. No less than 8 gauge, more like 6 or 4 should be used!
one also wonder if he is running it through a relay ...that initial draw down when they engage could be causing problems... I would put and amp clamp on the fan power wire and see what happens when they engage ..
What year is your Jeep? I am going by memory from years ago, but a bunch of the jeeps have a gizmo under the right headlight if I remember correctly. I guess its a controller, or resistor, or what ever. This gizmo is a common failure. It is in fact so common I have had to make this repair so many times the trick is to drill a hole in the bumper cover so you can get to it easily for the next time the gizmo fails without removing anything but the headlight. Or, you can put a clutch fan on it. I despise Jeeps. I despise anything Chrysler. Crap. And to think the jeep helped us win WWII. Also, I think humidity increases the affect of cooling with airflow, so you may be wrong there? Evaporation. If moisture is on my skin and wind hits it, it make me cold. Dogs do not sweat so there is no evaporation on their skin. They can deal with the cold better than humans. I think evaporation removes heat. Google this for me please to confirm. I ain't no weather man or physicist. You got the amp part correct. :) He he. An intelligent person makes a comment on youtube. How very odd you are. Thanks.
YouSpamTard I think what he was trying to get at is that when it’s humid, the evaporative cooling effect doesn’t work as well. That’s why swamp coolers don’t work very well right after it rains
@@SergioPena20 Ummm, I think what you are talking about is called saturation. Dew point. I do not know. This is physics way beyond me and believe me, I have tried to understand. I ain't no chemist. :) Thing is, it is so very simple fundamentally speaking, but I do not have that fundamental. Google will not help. Do not even try.
I have been running electric fans in my trucks for 20 years. I've learned a ton in getting them right. I used off the shelf AutoZone stuff on my Dakota and initially for my S10. Eventually for my S10 a combination of a Summit Racing 31x19 aluminum radiator and a set of Summit shrouded fans has worked for years. For full size trucks the normal late model dual fan available from Doorman has been very reliable with my Suburban keeping a 454 cool and running happy; even in Las Vegas. Alternators: I've usually run Powermaster, but know others that are happy with either Mechman or Mean Green. I am currently running a 165amp from O'Reilly's on the Suburban. Each fan has it's own relay and power supply. They are triggered by a switch on the dash that is tied into an ignition hot circuit. That way my wife can drive my trucks without issue. I have not seen the electrical issues you note, unless I try to use fancy controllers. E-fans are my preferred setup no matter what. My water pumps live longer with out a heavy clutch fan dragging them down.
M AAR there’re far too many idiots making rude or counter productive comments online, huh? I go with the rule Mama taught me long ago. If you don’t have something nice to say, best not to say anything at all....especially on line. In person, yeah, I don’t always follow that rule, but on line, yeah.
I enjoyed the video, and learned a few things.
I had residual and industrial training and worked as maintenance trouble shooter 42 years.
Lets get down to basics
1. A fuse or breaker is used to protect the wiring in a circuit but in most cases will protect the device that its powering.
2. A fuse or breaker is designed to blow or trip without damaging the casing or mechanism.
3. If you have a 20 amp breaker in yours home and wire in a new rectangle using a number 14 wire you must drop down to a 15 amp breaker to protect the wiring (National Electric Code).
4. When using wie stripper don't nick or cut into the wire or remove some of the wire strains, this will result in a weak point that will heat up or start a fire.
Great video. Just want to add.... you can get a smaller alternator pulley. EX: from 2.25" to 1.75" and will rack out about 25% more power. Also the extra and more consistent cool increases life if coolant system. Don't forget Fleetguard coolant bypass filters. 75 filter + 20 1 piece T + 25 hoses. Great time to add a heat sink to further increase coolant
Funnily enough in high performance vehicles than run at higher rpm people often do the opposite and install larger pulleys on the alternator so that it operates within its optimal rpm limits, has less rotational mass and is easier for the engine to turn.
I had a 92 Chevy suburban that had the exact same problem and I also installed electric fans. I upgraded my alternator with one from a 3/4 ton Diesel 4x4 with the snow plow package Which was a 160 amp alternator. The key here is eliminating voltage drop. Your melted fuses and your flickering lights were being caused by restrictions in the electrical system not the alternator not being able to keep up. The fuses that you’re using just are not capable of handling a long-term high current draw. It’s because of the connections inside the in-line fuse holder that you’re having problems. I installed fusible links instead and powered the fans with relays and a temperature switch. I used a set of fans from an Oldsmobile 98 Regency that I found at the junkyard. I used two relays, one for each fan so there was some redundancy, and both relays were wired to either activate when the temperature switch reached a certain point (mine was a 190° switch), and when the air-conditioning compressor came on. I also added an additional ground strap between the alternator case itself and the engine block and between the engine block and the frame. And I ran a second charge wire in addition to the original wire directly back to the battery. The fans were also powered directly from the battery through the fusible links to the relays and had their own dedicated ground back to the frame. It wasn’t very costly to wired that way it just took some planning. Hi resistance causes excessive heat buildup and wiring, and no alternator can overcome that. The alternator is like a pump for electrons. I don’t care how big the pump is, if you restricted in late and it’s outlet it’s not going to be able to move the volume that you wanted to move. You are right about an alternator is rated capacity not being at hot idle. At hot idle it is only capable of about 60% of its full capacity. My system ran flawlessly for almost 10 years until one day sitting at a red light the car got totaled. And it went from being a swamp box to being frigid Lee cold even sitting in heavy traffic when it was brutally hot outside.
I had a 1990 Isuzu 2.6L 4x4 LS SpaceCab in SE Arizona. Lived there for nearly25 years. One of the best things I ever did for that truck was to install an electric fan system in it. I had gone thru several fan clutches and finally decided on the electric system. Bought the truck brand new in Hawaii in late 89, had 15 miles on it. Sold it a year ago with 226K miles and it still had that great electric fan on it (though I moved to Ohio in 2012).
Put each fan to different temperature. Like one on 90 degrees, second 95 degrees. You'll have less stress on idle and under load your engine will pull up the electric power up.
Aside from this video entirely, a lot of people in the comments do not know how alternators work. You can run dual 300 amp alternators on a stock system and the batter will not just "explode" as most of you think. Your vehicles electronic systems will draw the power they need and that is when having a 250 amp alternator is helpful. Alternators are also speed dependent and put out lower amps at lower rpms. My 1984 Dodge W250s stock alternator is 60 amps, at idle with my headlights on and aftermarket radio and a/c on I'm using every last bit of 60 amps and it's hard on the alternator to keep up so I put a 130 amp alternator in it and now I can run everything no problems. It's like the common misconception with wire gauge. (I've even seen electricians get this wrong) You can use a larger gauge wire as long as you start off with the correct size. My aftermarket gauges in my truck recommend 22 gauge wire but I used 16 gauge for durability and longevity since 22 gauge is too thin for my liking even though it would work perfectly well. You can even use zero gauge wire to run a 1 amp accessory light if you wanted, why? because the light is only going to draw as much power as it needs to. Same concept with alternators, the put out only the amps your systems are drawing. But yes if your old vehicle has a 60 amp alternator and you put on an aftermarket fan that can draw 40-50 amps you definitely need to upgrade your alternator, just get one that can put out enough amps for whatever you are planning to do.
This video has led me down a rabbit hole. After watching the video I saw a few things were not right. After reading the comments I learned a ton about what else could be improved. All this to say I finally realized I do not know as much about electrical systems as I thought I did. Your video whether it was 100% right, 100% wrong but it feel in-between and the pure controversy sparked interest for the truth. I started looking up educational scientific sources explaining voltages, wire diameters, voltage drop over length, heat effect on amps and tons of things that I never knew completely before. The more I learned the more mechanics I meet that were in the same boat as I was originally (just winging it). I found friends cars that have the switched fused 30 amps for the switch to the relay BUT the relay itself power circuit not having a fuse at all! Another was a weak dual radiator fan assembly being fed by an 18 gauge wire from the battery in the truck by the time the voltage drop hit the fans the 12-18V fans were only seeing 6v. All this to say, your video made a huge difference in my mechanical hobby life and I think about your video often when I am fixing stuff. Kaizen my friend!
I managed twin 16" fans on a custom steel shroud with an 80 Amp alternator and 2k watt stereo without issues at night with everything on...lights, wipers etc...
Wow, a 2000 Watt sound system? 2000/13.6 = 147 Amps. I bet your battery didn't last 5 minutes at that current draw. Oh, wait: maybe it just said "2000 Watts" on the Chinese box but it was actually 200W RMS? That's a common scam.
1. I used a lot of Rockford stuff not cheap China knock offs. 2. I never said it was RMS. 2k is a peak rating. 3. I never said I ran it at 100% all the time OR for extended periods... as that sort of thing would make one deaf. 4. I never said my gauge for my alternator didn't dance a bit and that the headlamps didn't dim when the bass hit. 5. I ran multiple amps as well. So to quote max power conversion numbers and call it impossible is like saying that the twin towers was a scam as jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt the steel...when steel doesn't need to melt to bend...in other words MAX power numbers aren't the absolute determining factor as to whether or not something works. So before you cry bullshit and bash with ignorant comments you should ask intelligent questions. You'll likely gain understanding.
@@manolisgledsodakis873 also don't forget that alternator output is not 13.6v as that would indicate a problem with your charging system. Proper voltage should be about 14.4 volts and when divided by an RMS of 1,000 yields a different result = 69.4
Not to argue with anyone but my set up worked for 15 years. I could write an essay on the details of WHY it worked out for me. I'll answer constructive questions as to WHY the person that made this video had issues with it working and WHY I didn't. Thanks.
Well Mr. Monalis...you just got your azz handed to you, you barked up the wrong tree...lmao
Thanks for the laughs! LOL. I'd recommend that when you try to give advice, you should first know what you're doing.
I installed a derale electric fan on my 2003 dodge and it works great! I did not have to upgrade to more amp alternator. I've had my system for about 5 years now. I does require a little maintenance over the years but I am happy with my system.
What was the size of the fan, cfm rating and where was it installed on. was it on the radiator without ac or on the ac condenser. I am looking to install the Derale fan. Thank you
difference is 1995 chevy and 2003 dodge
When he said star bucks explains everything
Shoulds just went the junkyard and took the fans off a 2005...probly half the price
That is exactly what I did!!
I bought a double set recently for $50 from the JY, with pigtails and shroud. He also had both fans running on the one power line, with an indirect ground. Wiring was pretty much all wrong, causing that fuse to melt every time.
anthony rosales used use more amps
Dude fans cost about 50usd ....there is a thin line between between smart cheap purchases. And just being a jew...guess what you are lol
But they wouldn't come with a 240 amp alternator.;)
Your absolutely right on all points, I own a 94 Ford Bronco and I live in the California desert where is gets to 110 in the summer and with my stock system my AC and truck would overheat and I was forced not to run my AC, to be honest with you i wouldn't even drive my truck on hot days like that. So i upgraded here is what it cost me. now in my case I didn't want my Bronco to even over heat again so i put in a new radiator. and i'm going to be installing everything when my radiator comes in its been on back order since January, but you are right with needing to upgrade everything else, awesome video man.
Flex-a-lite fan-295 $366.00
Frostbite radiator FB224 $411.00
Mechman 320 amp alternator $525.00
Big 3 wiring and connectors and battery terminals. $200.00
Total Cost 1502.00
Dude! Thanks for all the details! I think it can help everyone here including me. Looks like you’re off to a running start. Mechman alts are no joke. Plenty of power for the fans. My Mechman 250 elite is awesome. I have since swapped the stock clutch fan back in but plan on going back to the electric setup soon!
Actually the best upgrade u need at the top of ur mods list would be a good set of electric fans.. Takes a lot of drag off motor allowing the crank to reach higher RPM's quicker and less drag. All around great move.
I'm building up my 87 Monte Carlo. 383 stroker, aluminum block, 4-core aluminum radiator, AC delete. Due to space concerns I think I'm going to need electric fans, and the added horsepower will be more than welcome.
Nope. A fan takes a certain amount of watts to turn. You can get those watts through the crankshaft with a mechanical fan, or through the alternator and electric fan. The wattage will be the same, so the drag will come from either the crank or alternator, but it will be there. People assume an alternator makes current with no drag. Not true. An fully loaded alternator causes serious drag....
@@scottyh72 lol did u just tell me no as in im wrong not a very intelligent upgrade to try an convince me that replacing a clutch or rpm fan with a set of electric fans wired to a 180 stat, wont give multiple benefits . what's the rest of this i gotta hear it plz u were telling me how the crank supplies tiny bits of watts ehh as if there is a stator mounted like a dirt bike or Indro . those do actually produce some "millivolts" that are capable od running some low volt flood lights or enough to help replenish a trickle type charge to keep a 9 volt moto battery on the positive side of things. now are u certain u feel like challenging me to any common sense mechanics of simple motor function and or possible up grades ? cause im gonna be honest and tell u ive got 20 plus years of rod, nitro methanol speedway , motocross, 24hours Daytona, rat rods, daily driver, large diesel earth working tractors , jet boats, toys u fuggin name it ive either executed full ground up builds on there motors for any thing from oem to max flow head work and gapping rings, degreeing cam shafts, balance and blu printing full 30k motor builds , roller, solid, hydraulic tappet, rockers, roller cam, gear driven cam with dual tension dual adjusters, injection, super charged, nitrous 50 to 200 shot etc etc etc
Does electric fans not add more drag to the alternator. I would like to get electric fans. I have a liquid clutch fan in my Chevy 2500hd. I do know that more load the more work the motor has to do with turning the alternator. I wonder what the trade off is with an electric over a clutch fan.
The use of Scotch Loks, but not using any relays, tells me everything I need to know.... *_And everything he doesn't!_*
You got that right.
You are wrong, Scotch Locks are rated for 60 plus amps continuous. LOL
@@jimdavidson5208 Uhh... no, you are wrong. Those blue ScotchLoks are rated at a max recommended current of 15 Amps, using 14 AWG wire. But beyond that, I was referring to his miserable choice to use ScotchLoks in an automotive environment, due to their failure rate and tendency to create issues. LOL? WSF
I was JOKING SIR. I wouldn't use scotch locks for a 1 amp circuit. Crimping, soldering and shrink wrap is superior.
@@jimdavidson5208 Sorry if my response was misconstrued, but I did laugh when I read your first reply. I just have a severe disdain for ScotchLoks and electrical tape when used in permanent automotive installs/repairs, and wish people would not use either, except for temporary or roadside repairs....
Great description. In my experience was the same deal. I had a Ford Ranger that somebody had scabbed in a huge electric fan and I ended up by going back old school with the Shroud and the original clutch fan. The AC started to work better and with always pulling air through the coil. I eventually just put a 12in electric fan in front of everything to assist it and not have to buy an alternator and and and and and. It was very cost-effective and it took the temperature down about ten degrees in the summertime
AWSOME 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
A 240 amp alternator? Or just do what most people do and change the pulley size on the alternator.
1D10CRACY /cheers man ,and keep a spare from a wreck .
THANK YOU!
Or do it right the first time and hook up the fan's power wire to the battery, lol
"most people do". Been working on cars for nearly 40 years and I've NEVER seen anybody change the pully size on an alternator. Pully change yes, size no.
@@datsuntoyy People do them with superchargers alot to change the amount of boost they put out
You lost me when you went to the fan instead of getting the A/C unit checked and/or recharged.
Funny, I was wondering the same thing. Why not make sure a/c system was working properly before jumping to electric fans?
@@javiervalenzuela7214 It's not the hardest possible way? Maybe he likes throwing money away. I didn't watch the whole thing.
This is my dilemma, my a/c system is Brand new, so I’m going to do dual electric fans.
@@JacobEcret your a/c compressor also has reduced output at idle speed don't expect too much benefit for your money.
Roy Blackburn well that’s true, not the only reason I want electric fans, they’re quieter, I would love to get rid of my fan clutch, it fouls my water pump more often.
Engine Masters did a dyno comparison with different cooling fan setups, if I recall a standard clutch fan reduced hp by about 15% and a fixed fan reduced hp by around 30%. Food for thought for those looking for hp gains.
Holy crap dude, you need to stop talking about cars. This makes 4 or 5 videos in a row where you have given flat out false information.
Big ratings views
I might be useful if you pointed out what information you are referring to and why.
Exactly what I was thinking. I've installed 3 sets in the past with absolutely zero fuse melting issues. Obviously you have to know before installing them they draw more power than a stock can handle. That's like installing a 1k+ rms watt stereo amp and expecting it to keep up 🙄
Lol, "140A alternator still would not keep up, I was blowing fuses....." SMH.....come on man.
Thanks my man. I’m currently going through the process of taking my electric fans off my F150 and replacing it with the OEM fan and clutch
Good, honest assessment. I've struggled with AC performance (and, to some extent, engine cooling) on my 93 C2500 Suburban (454) as well. Here are some ideas for other GMT400 owners, based on my experience. First and foremost, CLEAN OUT YOUR EVAPORATOR BOX! Our trucks don't have cabin air filters, so all the crud that comes down into the box from outside just gets minced by the blower fan and ends up blocking the evaporator. You have to remove the blower motor to get in there and clean it out, but it's worth it. I noticed MUCH cooler AC temps after cleaning out decades of dirt and pine needles blocking the evaporator. Second, my truck came from factory with an additional pusher fan in front of the condenser. It looks like something that could easily be added to trucks that did not come with it. From the factory, it's wired to come on whenever the engine hits a certain temp (most likely to help the oil cooler) but I wired mine to come on whenever the AC condenser is on, kinda like Jimmy in this video. The stock alternator can handle this just fine. Last, after making sure your fan clutch is working, consider a clutch fan with more blades from a newer truck. On 454s, the trucks in the late 90s came with a fan with much more blades than stock, and it bolts right in place. All this, plus ensuring that the stock AC system has no leaks and is perforiming properly, has made a big difference in my truck. It still climbs to 210 in traffic, but the AC blows cold all the time.
Michael White I just want to add to your excellent suggestions. 454s from 91+ changed the coolant flow through the heads from series to parallel flow. This helped immensely with the cooling issues most Mark IV big blocks had in these trucks. Especially the ‘88-90 trucks. This was the most significant difference between the Mark IV and Gen V big blocks. If you have an auto trans, idling in P or N helps a bit with cooling and AC performance in traffic too.
Its fans bro, not a 10k+ watt sound system.
Real mechanics will ever use robbers in electrical work. This guy is totally FAIL
I have a Alternator rebuild shop and DIY engineers are a pain in my ass. You don't need 240 amp to run fans. Honda did it with 80 amps. Those fans you have also blow hot air directly on the alternator and that will over heat the unit. The wiring in this video tells the tale. I also tell people that the engine has plenty of power to run a nice fan. The Higher amp alternator also take more engine power to run. Electric fans were mostly used when the engine was transverse and so it was impossible to run a fan belt system. So I agree with the title of this video and nice job on explaining the system.
This is an interesting video for the instances where a vehicle is originally equipped with a belt driven thermostatic clutch fan and the owner wants to convert to an electric fan for the engine radiator and air conditioner condenser. However a lot of cars today come equipped with electric fans on the radiator as part of the manufacturers design. In these cases the system works with out problems.
Of Coors
Blowing fuses!!
Someone does not know about electricity.
@T T 1. They're not lead, they're usually Zinc. 2. Most of them will still carry 4/5ths of their rated current at 100c. Even if it was straight-up boiling hot in there, he still would have had 5% more capacity than his rated draw.
@T T bad when the comment section is more helpful than the actual videos on UA-cam 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Great comments
Simple issue- heat at idle
Hot air expands and rises = bonnet vents
Using factory fans off of things (I'm using a dual speed escort fan) can be a really good way to get great performing electric fans for a great price.
I’m using dual Ford Contour fan’s in my 1980 Jeep. The Counter fan and shroud assembly fit the Jeep radiator PERFECT.
@@MrSirDudeGuy i love when the shroud fits too
I have both electric and the belt fan. Vegas gets hot and the air conditioner cuts out at stop lights so the electric fan really helps. Just make sure you wire up and override to allow you to keep them on. A lot of times the compressor switch will flip them on and off.
What electric fan did you buy that would fit with original fan? Looking for something like that for my truck. Was it hard to install/wire?
@@tylerchapin2011 Yes easy to install. I did have to remove the shroud. also had to build some mount brackets since you can't screw it into the radiator. But enough room for the original fan and the electric fan
Good video, I've been thinking about doing an electric fan conversion on my 93 toyota pickup, now I see it is probably not worth it. Another thing I like about the stock clutch fan is that if the clutch fails I can take a couple of zip ties and fasten the fan to the clutch body and make it home. Sometimes simple is better.
I’m Ghetto too 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I live in las Vegas and with the correct set of E fans things are beautiful. You need computer controlled fans . You basically need to know what you are doing. Now this guy knows and learned the hard way.
Ive seen EMP electric fans that run on variable speed depending on the cooling demands of the engine and the fans alone are not cheap
I'm amazed all the people that have installed electric fans on you tube they throw the old fan shroud away without thinking there is a reason why the whole raditator is covered not just where the electric blades straw verses funnel
Matt Pamp you are correct that shroud is meant to direct the air flow where it needs to be
Removing the shroud was dumb.
@Theodore Marakas that's funny. i thought they were there to make access to the front of your engine a lot more difficult.
2005 chevy Silverado &tahoes have 2 with a full shroud
@I Paid you need to go look again. Every OEM fan that I've seen have shrouds. Usually for ducting and also to keep morons from trying to lick the fan blades.
Every idiot is a liability.
I gotta protest here. I have heard of people having issues just as you're saying, and I'm sure it happens. I have e-faned many machines I've had and never had these issues. The issues I've found on many cases was cheap relays, or bad/lazy wiring. Once done the right way, it cools like a champ!
I agree with many of you. Lots of misinfo here.
A huge alternator is not the fix for lack of idle amperage. Try an overdrive pulley on the alternator. Also, you shouldnt need 2 huge fans running full speed at idle, even with ac.
Fuses don't blow from an alternator being underrated.
2 ga wire is RIDICULOUS overkill for fans.
Fuses don't blow from an alternator being underrated. OMG that cracked me up. I stopped it at 1 min. just scanning comments before I leave. Glad I didn't waste 16 min of my life here.
I just mentioned that for the 30 amp load he’s saying he’s running, #8 wire would probably be absolutely fine for the short distances he’s running the wiring.
The air coming out of the dash of just about any vehicle will begin to warm somewhat whenever the vehicle is sitting in traffic. This is more noticeable on older vehicles with an engine driven fan. However this isn’t caused solely by a lack of air flow through the A/C condenser and shouldn’t cause the A/C to quit working all together. The A/C compressor is driven off the engine’s crankshaft and varies in speed with the engine. The compressor capacity is reduced as its speed is reduced. As its capacity is reduced by lower speed, so is the required amount of airflow through the A/C condenser. I’m sure this and pretty much all vehicles are designed to have the A/C to work satisfactory under these conditions as built. When it doesn’t that usually means something is broken, not maintained properly or is being used in a manner beyond its capacity. The proper first step would have been to clean the A/C condenser and radiator. Next would have been to make sure the clutch on the fan is operating properly. The thermal clutch on the center of the fan will eventually wear out. The clutch allows the fan to freewheel when the air is cool and it engages the fan more and more as the temperature rises. The clutch usually fails in a manner which the fan just free wheels constantly. Then have the A/C system checked for proper charge and performance. His mentioning at the end of the flickering indicator should have been his first clue. If the indicator is flickering he should have checked the clutch on his compressor. The clutch is like an electromagnet that makes the compressor spin with the belt when turned on. If it is getting a flickering voltage the clutch wouldn’t be fully engaged causing slipping in the compressor’s engagement to the pulley and greatly reducing the capacity of the A/C system which would be most notable when sitting in traffic when the engine is idling.
I understand the intent of the video as it does give some pointers on what to expect when you modify something on your vehicle. That being it is rare that you can just bolt something on without it affecting something else. If you want to upgrade the performance of something you have to look at the big picture because this upgrade may expose a weakness in a related system. I wasn’t trying to be disrespectful, just explaining how I would have approached the original issue.
I’ve been running an electric fan on my 66 Chevy for years. It’s been really helpful.
I laughed so hard when you said you replaced the alt.
Yeah, he definitely should let a professional do the installation. They're simple and reliable if you know what you're doing
So much false information. I can’t even begin to explain. Just watch something else lol
Yeah and no, they dont make more horsepower but they free up the power clutch fans choke out
@720 man Electric fans take only one horsepower to run. A clutch fan takes 24-30 horsepower. That old suburban only had about 250hp. So an extra 25hp would be noticeable.
@720 man I don't "know it", I watched it on Motor Trend's Engine Masters. Some fans eat 30 horsepower.
@720 man It is Engine Masters episode 20 from "Season 2". I saw it on MotorTrend's UA-cam channel, but I can't find it there now. It looks like they have pulled all the full episodes off of their channel. Only the previews remain. It's on MotorTrendOnDemand now.
But I'm watching episode 20 again right now and they haven't asked me for any money yet.
😹😹😹
I did the same thing with twin screws. I had the suburban serviced and they didn’t put the belt on correctly. When it came off in the middle of nowhere it saved me - those fans kept convection cooling from overheating the thing without the water pump working. Ice cold a/c too, when the belt is in place.
The biggest problem with this setup is how he hooked it into the AC clutch so the fans will be constantly turning on and off every few seconds. When the fans start they will draw more current than the rated 28 running amps, maybe like 50 amps to start. The fuse isn't designed to protect huge intermittent switched loads like that, so that's why it melted. He needs to add time delay that will run the fans for 1-2 minutes after the clutch shuts off so the fans stay running across clutch cycles. This is how it works on modern cars, the fans run constantly at a low speed when the AC is turned on.
I agree 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Would a capacitor in the circuit help with this? Where would this go in the typical fan circuit using a relay to switch on when AC clutch or temp probe opens the relay?
I'm a little confused about the fuses blowing. They are basically pieces of wire that heat up and burn open above a certain amount of power applied. Not sure why insufficient power on the alternator would burn up a fuse. I hope they were slo-blows because you need to account for the 100mS or so of inrush current needed to get the fan motors going.
You should have kept the original fan and installed a small electric fan on the ac condenser, which will only activate when you switch on the AC. Worked well on my chrysler
Not sure if your ex military but it sure sounds like it....let's take a simple problem and make it as complicated as possible....lol. Simplest way is get a set of cooling fans for m the junk yard, buy an electric cooling fan controller and here's the kicker...follow the instructions!!! Under $150 and will work fine.
There is a disclaimer at the very beginning saying not to follow any of his instructions. I figured that was good a spot as any to stop the video
when i installed 2 extra 80-watt auxiliary fans in my honda fit, i attached them to 2 separate wiring harnesses that were meant for fog lights good for 20 amps each. depending on the temperature i just turn them on individually as needed. Both fog light wiring harnesses have a fuse and a relay switch which protects my other electrical devices. other upgrades i did to the car that may have improved my alternator power headroom are LED lights and a voltage stabilizer. Everything works awesome here in the Philippines where it gets particularly hot in the summer. My air conditioning had an awesome boost in cooling too because of these
This is a good tutorial to show that people who think they know about cars, actually don’t know what they’re getting into.
I think I lost a few brain cells watching this video so much misinformation
Neil Brown dude cars should be equipped with nuclear reactors to produce enough electricity to run dual fans
Lmao yupp
Or he could’ve just diagnosed why the factory system wasn’t providing proper condenser airflow at red lights like every other 95 suburban in Las Vegas did brand new.
@@slowpoke96Z28
That's exactly what I was thinking very early in the video.
The whole issue was most likely low R134A with a malfunctioning fan clutch
Just two day ago I upgraded (or maybe just call it swapped) the clutch fan with an electric. The car is a Mercedes W124 300E with a 115A alternator as stamped on it. The stock is 70A but I upgraded it a while back (used for $80 USD) so it was not part of this conversion. I took it to my indie MB electrician to install it. The fan I used (dual setup) is an original new part from a Chinese car maker called Geely. Chinese, but original form a global manufacturer, so I think it will last. Total cost was ~$255 USD. Where I live temps could reach ~50C in some good days. +45C is not unheard of in summer and +40C is common. Coolant temp improved drastically and AC a little. The fan runs at two speed, low at 85-80C and high at 100-95C. There was a front aux fan (dual setup) already and I did not remove it. I kept it to run at low speed with the AC switch and high with refrigerant pressure. I tested it today at 42C ambient for like an hour mixed drive and it worked great. Relays are original MB parts. I will always keep the clutch+fan in the truck as a precaution. They are easy to install should a worse case scenario present itself. Have a nice day!
Thank you for sharing your experience. I would have done two things differently. First, I would have installed an automatic reset circuit breaker rather than a fuse. Second, I would not used the scotchlok on the compressor clutch wire; I would have used a pressure switch in the high-side refrigerant line. Those changes would alleviate concern about melting fuses and refine the operation so you can achieve maximum efficiency. I am editing to clarify. An A/C shop can fabricate a tee fitting to accommodate the high pressure cutoff switch that is part of the factory system along with the pressure switch for the fans. This is not unlike the control system of the Horton Corsair fan clutch in my truck.
you do not run both for cooling. 1 is for cooling, the second comes on with the A/C, that way you have a lesser load demand on start up
Correct'O Mundo Nigel4wheeler. Plus being made out of metal they're going to pull more of a load.
@@giannisaaverdra1648 what metal?
I have a '99 Chevrolet K1500 5.7 pickup and has the same electric fan you have and has zero issues like you mentioned in your video
He could have added an additional battery, in parallel, and never had the drama. I did this on a 83 GMC Suburban, to accommodate for a Western Snow Plow's high current draw, to its hydraulic pump's electric motor. The stock alternator was able to charge both batteries fine.
Im about to put in an electric fan on a 47 panel truck where i dont have enough room for the belt fan, how do you wire in the second battery for a novice
@@blakenorman4822 Oreillys sells Clamps and both Positive (red) 2 Gauge Wire/Harness, and Negative (black) 2 Gauge Wire/Harness.
Run a new wire between both batteries. Red to Red. Black to Black. That's all you have to do.
@@andylowe2725 you the man, thamks
@@blakenorman4822 You're welcome. Just think of it as using jumper cables, under your own hood, to your second battery. Red to Red. Black to Black.
It’s truly amazing the level of engineering that goes into stock vehicles.
Yep and the issues that arise when a person starts messing with it
@@atmosrepair except nearly everything this guy says is complete bullshit so....
Your video is great , Everything is good and your not afraid to try different things , Also the people who actually contributed great information to the actual problem solving really helps others .
Add a soft-start device for the fans and no more blown fuses (fans tend to draw x3 Amperes when they start from stable position)(same problem as cheap angle grinders) :)
Dude you failed to add appropriate relays and if your fans pulled so hard as to melt wiring and fuses you didn't set system up properly.
Your adding control wiring was added in wrong area.
As for cooling your fans should not Max out a 105 amp alternator.
Heck I set my big block Monte Carlo with a single cooling fan off a 91 Cavalier application and used 120 amp alternator for my stereo.
No blown fuses, melted wiring.
Your research was incomplete and execution failure.
Proper power and ground through relays should keep your temps cool and fans functional for years.
The stock electric fan in our Jeep Liberty, 2008, has been 100% trouble free for 180,000 miles, rock steady thermostat. I only added the mechanical fan for when we are towing our camper.
So, every car manufacturer in the world is wrong.
Your battery is your power source. The alternator recharges your battery.
The “cool factor “ of hearing your fans run after you shut the key off is killing the battery.
I have installed electric fans on many vehicles. Used a 100 amp alternator and a 1500 amp battery (Oddssey). Wire them to come on only when the engine is running, engine temperature is 10 to 15 degrees or more than the thermostat or the a/c is on.
Never had your problems. Worked at my father radiator shop in Las Vegas NV.
You've got that bass-akwards, the alternator supplies all your electrical needs AFTER the car is started, recharging the battery is basically a side effect of that process. The battery is NOT needed after the vehicle is running. When an alternator fails then everything reverts to running off of the battery. Also, a thermostat doesn't keep an engine from overheating, it forces the engine to heat up and run in a specific window of operation. Furthermore, an A/C doesn't cool the inside of your vehicle, it removes the heat from the air. Last but not least, there is no such thing as darkness, it's "absence of light" !
Some of your post is incorrect but you are right that you dont need the fans to run after you shut off the car. I put electric fans on my 84 Camaro and wired it to shut off when car was off.
@@jameswalls9468 if you remove the heat then yeah you are cooling.
darkness is the absence of light but it is still darkness.
don't be such a stickler.
What he thinks is a cool factor is to the rest of the world a fool factor
Sorry you are wrong. The battery picks up any short high power requirements the alternator can't handle such as two electric fans coming on while the cabin fan is running and the lights are on. Add up those amps and you will find they temporarily exceed the output of most alternators especially at idle.
Scotch Locks + Small gauge wire = HEAT.. This is simply the result of a bad electrical setup overall, Not representative of good quality electric fan installations.
Hey bro I appreciate your concern but that scotchlok was only used as a signal from the AC compressor to the computer for the fans to know when to kick on it was not power for the fans.
Still this is heat and heat is generated by resistance from a wire that is not capable of sustaining the average amperage draw of those fans...
Ive seen this issue a million times in high power audio systems, I install the electric setups for alternators and this is far too common on the el-cheapo 10dll audio kit install… Melting wires and melting fuses without actually blowing them.
The reason for this is because those wires are overheating and transferring all the heat to plastics that are not made to handle those temps, In this case the fuse holder which is probably made out of ABS Plastic with a low melting point.
The fuse holders we use are fiber reinforced with a melting point of over 400°C this is mated to a wire gauge that must be at least 2x rated to that of the average amp draw. This reduces the risk of overheating the wire and fuse holder failure…
My advice is to simply re-do the installation now using a beefier gauge wire and a fuse holder rated for high heat.
Now your points of fan failures are still valid though, But this whole issue is NOT caused by the fans themselves, its the electric setup that is the problem.
I installed a 10” and 12” mishimoto racing fans on a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 hemi to replace the disaster hydraulic fan which failed causing one of the heads to drop a valve seat. Fans pull 1600/1800 cfm and use 10/14 amps. Wired to a VW dual temp sensor mounted in radiator hose. Used 10 gage GLX wire and relays rated at 25 amps continuous one for each fan. Wired into existing jeep fuse box spare spots. Fans are also wired independent of ICU and use AC clutch power to activate both fans and/or temp switch without ac two run one or both depending upon engine coolant temp. In stop and go city driving with ac off only one fan has ever had to come on but im sure if 4x4 low range im sure both fans would come on. So im not quiet understanding why the alternator on your vehicle cant handle the amp draw this install runs flawlessly doesnt hurt i also installed an all aluminum radiator as well but sounds like you vought inferior parts to be having those issues. 24 amps for both fans isnt that much and stock alternator should be able to handle.
what the fu...
"fuses pop cuz the alternator is to weak"
its like saying "my chair broke because I am to light"
So what could be the reason fuse pops?
hacatan24 too much power
@@m4ui8o87 thank you..
@@hacatan24 the load is to heavy,the fans are drawing more juice (amps) than fuse can handle
@@adrew1963 they draw more amps if the voltage drops lower
Best advise I could give would be to ditch the fuse for a circuit breaker.
Yup
18 years ago I installed similar FlexLite model 292 on my 03 GMC sierra 1500 with a stock alternator, to this day I have never had one problem and many benefits, quieter operation, much quicker warm-up, more horsepower, better fuel economy, my fans only come on while sitting in traffic on a hot summer day other than that they never have to run ,much easier to work on the serpentine belt and everything else between the radiator in the engine, absolutely no drawbacks
I tried to convert to e-fans and I wasn't impressed. Switched it back to the stock clutch fan with a small aux-fan in front of the condenser and haven't looked back.
HEY JIMMY THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP THEY WAS ON MY RADAR..BUT I THINK I WILL PASS MY04 YUKON IS GOOD WITH THE CLUCH FAN..AND I LIKE LOTS OF BASS..SO NO EL FANS FOR NOW...GREAT VID
@@DJKEYS-br1xh Why are you replying to me? But I agree, the clutch fan works fine.
@@FabiusMaximus1000 oh..my bad..wasn't paying attention.was intended for Jimmy video..
Will do the same as you Dan. I have a 2003 Toyota Hilux with a 3L 2.8 diesel. Here in Barbados I have 30 deg C so I still need the stock fan.
Hmmm title should read "Electric fans not suitable for people who 1) don't understand automotive electrical systems, and 2) don't understand cooling systems." Most newer cars have electric fans for improved efficiency and power, and run 120 amp range alternators from the factory.
Exactly. Gee, do you think the manufacturers are stupid for installing electric fans?
And the guy is clearly asking for a fight with the title of his video.
Some people should support their local mechanics and never open the hoods themselves.
Thanks!
You bet!