I don’t know if you guys know, but the suicide of a sitting US senator over his gay son is something that actually happened here in the US. I’m guessing this show is pulling inspiration from that event. See Sen. Lester Hunt from the state of Wyoming who died from a self inflicted gunshot wound in 1954.
Embarrassed as a gay American that I didn't know that; thank you for posting it- the Senator's son was 92 years old when he passed away in 2020. Looking forward to digging into this further so again, thanks for sharing.
Don't forget also.... Mr. George Michael (love him & RIP) was caught in public bathroom with a guy doing Uknowhat. Public bathrooms are NEVER safe places, guys. Ever! gay or straight, Stay Safe
Episode 5 and 7 broke me, the final episode tried to glue me back but failed miserably. Funny I did not sob for the final episode as I did at the end of episode 5, but I’m in a deep sadness now which I don’t know how to get out of. And Hawk’s tears hunt me ever since.
I think while Hawk's actions are still incredibly wrong, the perspective that gets lost is Hawk's loyalty to Senator Smith, and genuine distaste for Leonard. I think Leonard as a social liability to the family goes way beyond the fact that he's gay. Pretty much the first scene of Leonard is him making everyone super uncomfortable at the Senator's birthday party (not his fault, he's clearly an addict, and people barely understand that now much less back in the 50's). We see that Hawk has probably gotten Leonard out of a lot of scrapes in the past. It seems like the family dynamic had morphed itself into something where Hawk is responsible for keeping Leonard out of trouble, something that breeds understandable resentment for both of them. Hawk wants Leonard gone not (just) because he's gay but because I genuinely think they were put in a dynamic that was destined to end in mutual hatred. Leonard getting caught in the bathroom was just the thing that Hawk couldn't cover up. Additionally, I think Hawk genuinely loves Senator Smith, even though yes, a lot of that love is that Senator Smith helps Hawk hold onto power. I think really the only people Hawk genuinely likes being around are people who are idealists in some way, he loves how the Senator wants to go up against McCarthy, even though he has to encourage Smith to keep a lid on it, him being friends with Marcus is also interesting. The politically wise thing to do at that time would be to have nothing to do with Marcus, but Marcus fights for what he believes, and Hawk can't help but respect that. Then with Tim most of all, even though Hawk knows that Tim is naive, he still can't help but love Tim's passion anyway. I think Hawk views Leonard as a threat, yes because he's gay, but also because Leonard could bring down the only family Hawk has left, and if it was gonna be a choice between protecting Leonard, a guy that can't stand him, or Senator Smith, the idealist who took Hawk in after his own father's rejection, Hawk was always going to choose Senator Smith.
Oh, of course Hawk’s actions are wrong and hurtful. But more than anyone, he represents the tightrope of trying to be gay and also have a full life in homophobic times. He is the internalization of the homophobia of the system he is trying to thrive in. His moral corruption and his constant attempts to do the right thing, followed by being despicable is the perfect picture of a man being torn in two.
You may not respect Hawk. But you can't blame him for what he's doing. I empathize him actually. He feels like he doesn't belong anywhere in this world. He has a high position in the government but he really only uses it to protect himself (he doesn't vote, he's "neutral"). He has a family but it's not his own (Lusy's father who took him in as a teenager and who still sees men like him disgusting). He really does love Tim but it's out of the question and he knows that he can never have him AND stability and control over his life that he desperately needs. It's not just black and white. He's a traumatized person and he's pretty much screwed all over. And I don't think he's denying what he truly is. It's just a way of surviving at this point. I believe he can clearly see that by no means his attraction to Tim can be "cured" and that means that there is no possible positive outcome for their relationship. He does what he thinks is best which is pushing Skippy away by getting married to a woman. That way he secures himself. Yes, it's selfish but he has a right to be selfish when it's his life we're talking about. You mentioned (and rightfully so) that this show makes you question everything. And I think it is what fascinating about it. After watching the last episode I felt very at peace and I think it was very well done by the creators 💔 Love Matt and Jonny, they are brilliant by bringing this story to life.
I'd also say that with the Senator dead, Hawk no longer has the Senator's protection. He's always been friendly with Lucy, and I think he feels he can make it work, but more importantly, she will be his beard and the protection that her father used to provide to him will come by marrying his daughter. He has gotten where he is by survival instincts. It would be one thing if Hawk could live a celibate life, but he needs the sex. He almost excuses it be not needing the associated emotion. I would say, it wasn't long ago, that women were not considered co-equal partners in the marriage and the attitudes was a man did important stuff while the women raised the children. You can see how Lucy has learned to serve Hawk, That's what women were expected to do, support the husband over their own desires. I think that's why Hawk thinks maybe he can survive the marriage. He can still sneak away, and she might not ask too many questions.
Hawk is just an awful person and character tbh, stop defending his shitty behavior. They all suffered during that time but it should not EXCUSE him for being a selfish asshole. Tim, Frankie, Marcus and Lucy suffered too but they chose to be the bigger person all the time and fought for their lives without hurting other people intentionally. The only thing that made me like him is because of what Tim did in the last episode, Tim made a lot of people like Hawk in the last ep. But honestly?? Hawk deserved the negative opinions from people.
@@qtjyh3675 I'm not going down this road. I literally said that you may not respect him as a person but to think that he's a horrible man? Not all people are the same, our brains are not the same, we differ in the way we react to certain things and again, the world is not black and white. If you remember, Marcus was an "awful person" as well at some point BUT I can't find it in me to blame him! If Hawk lived with that narrative nowadays I would judge him too. But given the time period it's just not fair to judge his actions like people do. He came to accept himself overtime and I think it's a big character development. I just shared my opinion, was happy to hear yours 🙌🏻
I agree with you. What Hawk has done is questionable, but understandable. I recently watched J. Edgar and the new film Maestro and have gained some understanding of that period of time. I think Matt Bomer must have been having a lot going on in his head after portraying all those repressed/struggled gay characters in recent years, and all the experiences lead him to the remarkable performance in FT. He's really phenomenal! Also I love your icon. I'm actually watching Doom Patrol now
@@gailymilkyway There are reasons to dislike Hawk when you compare him to Marcus. He is selfish, manipulative, lies all the time, and hurts people for his benefit. But it's easy to say what is decent in today's society was always that way and we should judge those based on today's standards. Let's think about this. First, can Hawk and Tim live gay lives out and proud? Not really. Gay people had to lie about themselves, especially those in positions of power. Much of the reason Tim gets hurt is because he is so religious and so unable to get over Hawk. Up to that point, Hawk's relationship had been purely transactional. It didn't hurt anyone as far as we could tell. He had sex with no commitments. He had no reason to expect Tim was any different. The concept of a gay man having love is very foreign to many who feel they are living sinful lives. Hawk just chooses not to believe in sin, but he knows society doesn't accept it. It's Tim that pushes Hawk to change his mind, and that's a lot of work. Hawk is leery of love. He chooses to survive so he can do greater things, like fight communism. He can't do that if he gets caught and transactional sex fulfills a desire without the danger of commitment. Tim is the cause of much of his own suffering. He knows that. Is it Hawk's fault that Tim can't get over Hawk? He was already suffering before he met Hawk when he admits that he had a gay encounter. He's already conflicted. In his effort to get Hawk to be more like him combined with Hawk's desire to be in control of Tim, Tim falls hopelessly for Hawk. It's Hawk that's asked to change, not Tim. To a great extent, both Hawk and Tim struggle to make changes, but Hawk is actually far more successful than Tim. Tim is always burdened with Catholic guilt, but Hawk actually learns he can love, even if it takes him decades to do so. And how can Tim blame Hawk for getting married to Lucy? So many gay men got married, many denied their own gay desires and felt getting married would solve their problems. That still happens, and certainly it happens in repressive countries. And Lucy? She had her own affairs, too. She's actually very much like Tim. She wants Hawk to be a devoted husband, she wants him to be straight. And just as Tim feels he needs to be desired, so does Lucy. Many women in the same situation actually just suffered and did other things like focus their lives on their children, lead a monastic life, or cheated. Think about the Clintons. This marriage feels like a sham too. Bill cheated, it seems, quite frequently. Men still cheat a lot, if they can get away with it. Tiger Woods cheated. I mean the list is too long to mention. Hillary knew this but being married to Bill benefited Hillary too. It's sad, but there's only ever been one bachelor president. It was better for Hillary to pretend the marriage worked than to be honest and get a divorce and run for president as a single person. People do things for less than honorable reasons to benefit themselves. Lucy even admits that she stayed with Hawk because his position gave her clout. Women have often married more for security. How often do we hear women that want to bag a rich man? They can do without love if they get lots of money. I mean, do we really believe Melania is doing it out of love? Lucy knows Hawk is gay. But she has old-fashioned thoughts. Despite her brother's demons, she thinks Hawk can change, and give her love. She's under as much wish fulfillment as Tim. The two suffer because they can't change their desires, and Hawk is the only one who makes some progress, and even he finds it hard to really change. I often suggest people watch Rothaniel, the Netflix comedy special with Jerrod Carmichael. Jerrod is a gay black comedian raised in the South. His father cheated on his wife. Both his grandfathers not only cheated on their wives, but had multiple mistresses and multiple children. This was not that unusual in the day. Women had no choice. Men could provide for them. And despite Jerrod's mother knowing her husband cheated on her, she forgave him. She had to so she could survive. She made an exception for her husband's infidelity because it suited her. What couldn't her mother forgive? He son's homosexuality. The two were extremely close, and she chose to distance herself from her sinning son even as she forgave her sinning husband. I think there's a case to be made that both Tim and Lucy made unrealistic expectations and had unrealistic feelings towards Hawk, and they just as complicit in their own suffering wishing Hawk could be someone he's not. And Hawk does change, albeit very slowly. Lucy was the one who insisted on children, then she blames Hawk for not loving her. She stays with Hawk for the children she insisted on having. And it's not like Hawk didn't love his children. He really did. That's my contrary view.
That what you guys were talking about, I said yesterday to my best friend. Fellow travellers doesn't tell you a story about black and white. There are so many sheets between and so many stories on the way. It is done so accurately in a very very brilliant way. Looking forward to your next reactions! Thxs!
Thank for the conversion speech. In, France, 2 years ago, a law has been establish to forbid the development of this queer torture. The law = "Act of January 31, 2022 prohibiting practices aimed at modifying a person's sexual orientation or gender identity."
I am a trained psychologist and it is important to remember that for a very long time, homosexuality was categorized as a mental illness and we believed it even for ourselves. We actually did believe it could be treated and though we suspected the process was terrifying and had low instances of success, that did not mean we did not think it a viable path to saving ourselves from public censure and death.
Just finished the last episode and it put me through the wringer! Can't wait to see what you think! What a great series, going to be thinking about it for a long while
Tim is vulnerable at times but can /have accepted his reality to certain degree so though he lost battle to AIDS but he is still at peace doing what he likes(helping others in distress) and living his true identity..but My heart break for Hawk every time..he can't even be true to himself..he couldn't even grief his childhood trauma and loosing his first love..he can't break down, can't let his guards down, can't protect his love and family and most of all can't have the stability in life that he always craved.. despite of all his selfish act i just can't hate this character..i sympathise with Hawk..
Ultimately, Hawk is a victim just like everyone else. He hates to be viewed as such, but that is the reality of this story. Fellow Travelers truly was delight.
I'm sorry if this comment comes out too harshly but I don't think you're really understanding Hawk's character, nor fully understanding the times they were leaving in. Doing what Hawk does here, or in any other episode, doesn't make you a bad person, he was simply trying to survive. Also, I don't agree on the whole "he's marrying Lucy to convince himself he's not gay" thing. Between Tim and Hawk, Hawk is actually the one that's more unapologetically gay. He doesn't feel guilt or shame about it as Tim does. He's the first person to acknowledge there's no sin in being gay and in what they were doing, he embraces his own homosexuality and lives it. He even stood up to his homophobic father - and okay, he might've done it in a scene where it's only just the two of them but it's not like in the 50s you could simply go around challenging homophobes about their homophobia (although he does that as well, with the guy that was interviewing him in episode 4, resulting in him getting polygraph tested). He simply realises and understands that he can't live his homosexuality openly and that (especially for men coming from a rich family and working in a powerful political position) there are certain societal expectations (such as getting married and having children) to be met, but that doesn't mean not accepting himself. He's simply protecting himself.
@@marika7349 He's not a bad person for wanting to survive, but that doesn't disqualify the fact that he's a selfish person. An "un-selfish" person would be someone like Tim, or Marcus, who are cautious and very private about their sexuality, but are still thoughtful and empathetic. Hawk simply doesn't possess those qualities. Hence why he always put his own pleasure and desires first without feeling any guilt if he hurt other people's feelings. Selfishness is not necessarily a bad trait because it's pretty inevitable in his scenario. But saying he's not selfish is wrong.
I hate Hawk from episode 1 to 7 tbh, but episode 8 changed my heart a little bit because Tim made me like him and made me appreciate Hawk's presence in his life. PS. Skippy and Lucy deserve so much better. 😭💔
This episode was especially hard to watch, because I know 2 people who went through conversion therapy when we were young. One tried to kill himself when he got home, and the other is married with children now. He advocated for someone else we knew to go to conversion therapy too (thankfully, they didn't end up going). He probably would've suggested I go, if I'd be outed or honest growing up. He and his wife can't even get a divorce if they're unhappy (and I'd bet a million dollars they are), thanks to the fucked up religion we grew up in. If you watch the movie "Latter Days", you'll get an idea what it was like for them.
Oh god, this was only uploaded 3hrs ago?? Loving your reactions to this show, I was hoping to binge watch you going through the whole show already 😭 can’t wait to see your thoughts on the last 3 episodes…they’re a doozy
Also, I just finished the series and had to go back to watch Heartstopper again to refresh my hope and my heart. I am 56 and I hope this series can tell some of later generations what we had to survive and why Heartstopper means so much to us.
I honestly don't who is more cuter ? Hawk and Tim or you guys ? The candle bit 😅 honestly you guys are so cute snd funny i just loved your interactions and how you complete each other lines ❤❤❤
Please review the last 3 episodes back to back..I really wanna hear everyone talk about this beautiful piece of art.. what a beautifully crafted show..n keep tissue handy , you are gonna need it..
This whole episode was brilliant, but what was super fascinating was when homophobia was used to bring down McCarthy and Cohn. Talk about viewing history through a queer lens! Cohn is utterly repulsive here, but when the Army Council says, “I think a pixie is kind of like… a fairy,” you can’t feel good. Evil is being brought down, but through the same homophobic means as good is attacked in the show. Anyway, I love you guys and how you bring us that very gay combination of analysis and real emotion. Keep up the great work (and do the HBO mini-series of “Angels in America” and the Netflix movie of “Boys in the Band.”)
Ricardo Brown , wrote a telling memoir . Evening crowd at Klemsers.. telling about the people that came to an unofficial gay meeting space in St Paul , Minn. . I’ve walked past the space where it stood. Minneapolis had a place also. Viking Bar at the old Radisson hotel.
Get your tissues ready because the next few episodes are going to be devastating. PS: In the book, the whole story takes place in the 1950s. Hawk is an f** son of a ...
After it’s all said and done. I will like to hear your opinion on side characters like Roy Cohn. It was so interesting to me that he was a real person. I didn’t even know of him
2:47 I hope this episode helps remind todays queers why there should be No Cops At Pride! ✊ They are not, and have never been, our allies. And yea, despite understanding him and even occasionally pitying him, I grew to despise Hawk more and more with each episode (until the very last one anyway) I can’t wait for the rest of your reactions to this show 💔
Hawk destroyed each member of this family to save himself and get ahead. No wonder this boy was so angry all the time. He called it. Would it have killed Hawk to hold Skippy's hand for even a minute. He's clearly distraught but Hawk be like, while you're on the ground, let me finish the job. Horrible person
I respect this perspective, but I also thing it ignores several key points about Hawk as a character. This is a guy who is *constantly* telling Tim he is better off without him, and honestly, its hard not to agree sometimes! "I think you should go back inside and lock the door", "I should've left you alone." These are warnings to Skippy that getting involved with Hawk is a bad move, and that Hawk cannot offer what Tim wants. But Tim is a grown ass man who repeatedly reaches out to Hawk anyway (not that Hawk doesn't too of course). I think that Hawk refusing Tim affection at this point is not him being heartless, its him realizing he's already done enough damage and refusing to do any more.
@@rileynewman-gatton8549 editing to warn you that there are SPOILERS ahead! nah he's just manipulating him so he can be blame free. Textbook examples TBH. In this particular case though, what's most upsetting is that he refused to lend him any kind of support when Skippy is at his lowest. His world just shattered and he just needed someone to hug him and tell him everything was going to be ok. It's the lack of kindness and compassion or just consideration that he shows that's disheartening. He could have broken the news to him once he felt a little better. So callous. Also Skippy did his best to stay away but kept falling in Hawk's traps because he'd lure him back every time he needed something from him. Right from the start, it was about him, his ambition, his safety but his priorities were all wrong. If he weren't such a coward, they'd have been able to act on their desire and love for each other, have a life together. By the time Hawk has the courage it's too late. Yet, he's still the one who survives. I hope he suffers for having taken conscious decisions that he knew would limit Skippy's chances at love and a good job. He's as insufferable as closeted republicans today who actively hurt queer people so their position and privileges are not taken away. It's difficult not to feel sympathy for Hawk some of the times. That Matt plays him probably doesn't help us keep a clear head but he still humanized him compared to how gross he is in the book. I find it interesting that people still defend him at the end of the series because they can't help see the positive side of him and blame the circumstances instead of him. The man made choices that you see other people in that situation did not. They dealt with it without hurting everyone, including those that gave meaning to his life. For me, the last episode sealed the deal. I have very little sympathy for him and do wonder if he wouldn't just have been a different kind of horrible if the obstacles to get ahead were not homophobia but some other thing. I'm not blaming him for not being able to make lemonade with the lemons life threw at him. We all deal with our problems differently. I am far from guilt free myself and not exactly living my authentic life openly myself. But he took those lemons and decided to poison everyone around him. He's lucky his daughter is still by his side at the end.
@@i.t.t. SPOILERS! I never read the book and It sounds like he was a lot more of just a straight up dick than he was in the show. But I disagree with the idea that other people got out without hurting people. Mary turns in her actual long term live in partner and we as an audience were fine with that. Marcus left Frankie on the street to get beaten up by cops and god knows who else and we forgave Marcus and watched him grow. Even though Marcus was still struggling with this in the 70's as well. Tim starts an affair with Hawk knowing he's married with a baby on the way. To say Hawk is the only guy in these circumstances that makes harmful choices is just inaccurate. The reason why he won't hold Tim is they are literally in the middle of the sidewalk where anyone could see??? Tim just randomly shows up unannounced and gets way too close for plausible deniability, and yeah I get it because his world is falling apart, but its not like the cops will let them go because Tim's having a bad day. If it had been Frankie coming to Marcus in the middle of the street in distress, I'm sure that if Frankie tried to hold Marcus the way Tim tried to hold Hawk, Marcus would have recoiled in the exact same way that Hawk did. Hawk has no issue showing affection to Tim when they're in safe places, in their apartments, the cozy corner, Fire Island, in the cabin, etc. Yes Hawk absolutely is a coward, but I also think he's just more calculating? Tim isn't actually brave enough to want to be out in the 50's either, he just doesn't know the rules/isnt as hyperaware of appearances as Hawk. Frankie is really the only one who is truly brave in that sense for a good 20+ years. Hawk still is 100% responsible for his choices, and he makes HORRIBLE ones, but I think its again, way too simplistic to say everyone else was nice and Hawk was just a completely unfeeling conniving jackass. Hawk made those choices in 1957, clearly feels horrible about them, and does everything he can reasonably do to help Tim when their paths cross in later years. He gets Tim out of Baltimore, gives him a safehouse, gets him a lawyer, offers him a house, pines for him, This doesn't excuse the things he's done, I just think someone who didn't care what they'd done would make the choices Hawk did.
@@rileynewman-gatton8549 *****SPOILERS HERE AS WELL***** I see what you are saying. I think I do and please do correct me if I'm reading you wrong because there are things I said that you are getting wrong. I might be failing to be express myself well enough so please allow me to clarify what I am trying to say. First of all, believe me, I'm not saying that Hawk was the only person who made bad choices. I was absolutely not fine at all with what Mary did and I also thought that Marcus could be quite horrible at first. I could see why he was good friends with Hawk. I can also understand and sympathize with their predicament because so much of it was based on the repression around them and their need to survive. I grew up in such an environment. I've seen people do pretty terrible things and pretty desperate things just so that they could survive. But for me that is where it's at. How different people went about it and who snitched on whom, who was cowardly and who did what they had to do without dragging everyone down with them, just as Skippy stood firm by his beliefs and chose to turn himself in than rat out his fellow protestors. The difference between the different people in the series (notably Marcus) is that they evolved over time while Hawk remained a coward until he had to be bullied into seeing beyond himself even at the very end. That time you mention about the hug, Skippy asked to go upstairs. I will never unhear the way he was begging Hawk to *please* go upstairs. Of course he wasn't asking for the hug in the middle of the straight. He just needed comforting. Why couldn't Hawk oblige just as Skippy did for him, time and time and time again, right from the start? As for Skipply, he was very naive but also very young and idealistic, fresh out of college. Hawk was attracted to him yes but he was just looking for a play thing and also someone he knew he could easily chew up for his benefit and discard him later. He had no intention of falling in love with him and that's what makes this story so compelling. When they met, Skippy was acting on impulse and wasn't getting that his actions were very risky. I think that over the years, he became much wiser, even more so than Hawk, who was much older than him. Take the example of when he was speaking with Jackson. While he was there taking care of him, he used the same words that Hawk once used with him about everyone lying. He barely knew the kid but sat to take care of him knowing how risky it was for him to even be chatting with him. His humanity trumped his need to be safe. Did Tim rekindle their relationship knowing that Lucy was pregnant? I need to rewatch the episode. I don't remember but I'm too destroyed at the moment for that. One thing that was clear to me though is how when he saw the new baby, he realized that it was silly to think that he could just come back and continue a relationship with Hawk, "without any expectations". I'll remind you that it was Hawk who kept giving him high hopes throughout. At that moment though, I think Skippy understood that what they had was difficult to justify. No matter how deep the feels, they couldn't just ignore their responsibilities. Hawk wasn't just married for appearances and living a double life. He had a family and now a whole new life had entered the scene. Skippy knew what the right thing to do was and he left. Hawk, on the other hand, just went on about "lowering his zipper" only when the need became too much. First of all, I don't believe him but I can't blame him for it either. It's the part where he is deluded himself in thinking that he is still honouring the vows he took. It didn't take long for him to go back to his old ways. He'd thrown Skippy under the bus, and I cannot stress the fact that he did this after McCarthy and Cohn were gone, for nothing. Look, I'm not saying that Hawk didn't suffer. I think the trauma he's been carrying since his father caught him with Kenny has done a lot of damage to him and there was no therapy at the time lol. However, my problem with him is that he knew when he was doing something wrong and did it because he always found ways to justify it. He actively hurt people. That's what makes him unforgivable, especially the part where it was after things had calmed down at work. I honestly have no understanding how Skippy could forgive him so many times. I know I haven't been able to be that gracious with the Hawks in my life. I think that all the things he did, that you describe at the end, it's a/ partly because he feels guilty about what he did to Skippy and it ate him up, considering that he never stopped seeking out men anyway, including the guy who worked for him in their country home. He couldn't even keep it at a safe distance away. That's literally rule number 1. b/ And also, he just really loves him. That's the most heartbreaking part of it all. I wouldn't be conflicted about so many things and feeling so deeply sad about how the story developed and ended if he was just a narcissistic prick. The problem with these two men is that they were intensely in love with each other. They were not good for each other though. The problem is that they were the endgame. The last scene was so heartbreaking, perhaps because it is the first time we hear him verbalize what he really thought and felt. I want to believe that he got to go to Italy after all and live out his dream as he once confessed them to Skippy. Even he deserves a 2nd chance and maybe he could spend the rest of his life living his truth in peace and celebrating the people who will love him because he will love them back and treat them accordingly.
Heartstopper is way better imo but I can get understand the importance of FT and how this story has to be told. Also, I'm watching this at 4am and just woke my other half up laughing out loud at the Josh doing maths in bed 🤣🤣🤣
I mean they’re totally different shows. It’s sort of like comparing To All the Boys I’ve Loved Before and like, idk, 1917. You’re more than welcome to like one more than the other (I personally tend to prefer romcoms over historical dramas), but they’re not really similar enough to be comparable at all. If anything, this show would be better compared against like Maurice or Interview with the Vampire.
I have now adopted the habit of watching one episode of FT and watching one episode of AWST reactions because I need, genuinely need, the parasocial moral support because godDAMN this series is HEAVY. Thanks so much for doing what you do, im gonna go find a way to heal from this one 🥲
I don’t know if you guys know, but the suicide of a sitting US senator over his gay son is something that actually happened here in the US. I’m guessing this show is pulling inspiration from that event. See Sen. Lester Hunt from the state of Wyoming who died from a self inflicted gunshot wound in 1954.
i was shocked to find out that that really happened
The whole pollical part of the show is real. There were rumors about McCarthy being gay and Roy Cohn was actually gay and died of HIV
Embarrassed as a gay American that I didn't know that; thank you for posting it- the Senator's son was 92 years old when he passed away in 2020. Looking forward to digging into this further so again, thanks for sharing.
Yea they did say pretty much everything from tim and hawk is real , even they used the real quilt for HIV people who died
Don't forget also.... Mr. George Michael (love him & RIP) was caught in public bathroom with a guy doing Uknowhat. Public bathrooms are NEVER safe places, guys. Ever! gay or straight, Stay Safe
Episode 5 and 7 broke me, the final episode tried to glue me back but failed miserably.
Funny I did not sob for the final episode as I did at the end of episode 5, but I’m in a deep sadness now which I don’t know how to get out of.
And Hawk’s tears hunt me ever since.
Oh Alex, your sad ‘bye’ at the end really got me. I’m so used to ‘byeeeeeeee!’ 😭
Guys I suggest you do the next three episodes back to back coz last two are unbearable heartbreaking and very heavy💔
last three got me dead
What a great idea!!! I'm here for it!!!!
Last 3 episodes litterly left me sobbing and throwing up
You will need the fan AND some tissues
I agree with this!
I think while Hawk's actions are still incredibly wrong, the perspective that gets lost is Hawk's loyalty to Senator Smith, and genuine distaste for Leonard. I think Leonard as a social liability to the family goes way beyond the fact that he's gay. Pretty much the first scene of Leonard is him making everyone super uncomfortable at the Senator's birthday party (not his fault, he's clearly an addict, and people barely understand that now much less back in the 50's). We see that Hawk has probably gotten Leonard out of a lot of scrapes in the past. It seems like the family dynamic had morphed itself into something where Hawk is responsible for keeping Leonard out of trouble, something that breeds understandable resentment for both of them. Hawk wants Leonard gone not (just) because he's gay but because I genuinely think they were put in a dynamic that was destined to end in mutual hatred. Leonard getting caught in the bathroom was just the thing that Hawk couldn't cover up. Additionally, I think Hawk genuinely loves Senator Smith, even though yes, a lot of that love is that Senator Smith helps Hawk hold onto power. I think really the only people Hawk genuinely likes being around are people who are idealists in some way, he loves how the Senator wants to go up against McCarthy, even though he has to encourage Smith to keep a lid on it, him being friends with Marcus is also interesting. The politically wise thing to do at that time would be to have nothing to do with Marcus, but Marcus fights for what he believes, and Hawk can't help but respect that. Then with Tim most of all, even though Hawk knows that Tim is naive, he still can't help but love Tim's passion anyway. I think Hawk views Leonard as a threat, yes because he's gay, but also because Leonard could bring down the only family Hawk has left, and if it was gonna be a choice between protecting Leonard, a guy that can't stand him, or Senator Smith, the idealist who took Hawk in after his own father's rejection, Hawk was always going to choose Senator Smith.
Very well put!
What Hawk did is certainly distateful but he's human with agendas and flaws like the rest of us
Oh, of course Hawk’s actions are wrong and hurtful. But more than anyone, he represents the tightrope of trying to be gay and also have a full life in homophobic times. He is the internalization of the homophobia of the system he is trying to thrive in. His moral corruption and his constant attempts to do the right thing, followed by being despicable is the perfect picture of a man being torn in two.
Spolier.......we don't really get to see Leonard again...
@@ceebee23it honestly annoyed me that this wasn’t brought up by hawks wife later on in life
You may not respect Hawk. But you can't blame him for what he's doing. I empathize him actually. He feels like he doesn't belong anywhere in this world. He has a high position in the government but he really only uses it to protect himself (he doesn't vote, he's "neutral"). He has a family but it's not his own (Lusy's father who took him in as a teenager and who still sees men like him disgusting). He really does love Tim but it's out of the question and he knows that he can never have him AND stability and control over his life that he desperately needs. It's not just black and white. He's a traumatized person and he's pretty much screwed all over. And I don't think he's denying what he truly is. It's just a way of surviving at this point. I believe he can clearly see that by no means his attraction to Tim can be "cured" and that means that there is no possible positive outcome for their relationship. He does what he thinks is best which is pushing Skippy away by getting married to a woman. That way he secures himself. Yes, it's selfish but he has a right to be selfish when it's his life we're talking about.
You mentioned (and rightfully so) that this show makes you question everything. And I think it is what fascinating about it. After watching the last episode I felt very at peace and I think it was very well done by the creators 💔 Love Matt and Jonny, they are brilliant by bringing this story to life.
I'd also say that with the Senator dead, Hawk no longer has the Senator's protection. He's always been friendly with Lucy, and I think he feels he can make it work, but more importantly, she will be his beard and the protection that her father used to provide to him will come by marrying his daughter. He has gotten where he is by survival instincts. It would be one thing if Hawk could live a celibate life, but he needs the sex. He almost excuses it be not needing the associated emotion.
I would say, it wasn't long ago, that women were not considered co-equal partners in the marriage and the attitudes was a man did important stuff while the women raised the children. You can see how Lucy has learned to serve Hawk, That's what women were expected to do, support the husband over their own desires. I think that's why Hawk thinks maybe he can survive the marriage. He can still sneak away, and she might not ask too many questions.
Hawk is just an awful person and character tbh, stop defending his shitty behavior. They all suffered during that time but it should not EXCUSE him for being a selfish asshole. Tim, Frankie, Marcus and Lucy suffered too but they chose to be the bigger person all the time and fought for their lives without hurting other people intentionally. The only thing that made me like him is because of what Tim did in the last episode, Tim made a lot of people like Hawk in the last ep. But honestly?? Hawk deserved the negative opinions from people.
@@qtjyh3675 I'm not going down this road. I literally said that you may not respect him as a person but to think that he's a horrible man? Not all people are the same, our brains are not the same, we differ in the way we react to certain things and again, the world is not black and white. If you remember, Marcus was an "awful person" as well at some point BUT I can't find it in me to blame him! If Hawk lived with that narrative nowadays I would judge him too. But given the time period it's just not fair to judge his actions like people do. He came to accept himself overtime and I think it's a big character development.
I just shared my opinion, was happy to hear yours 🙌🏻
I agree with you. What Hawk has done is questionable, but understandable. I recently watched J. Edgar and the new film Maestro and have gained some understanding of that period of time.
I think Matt Bomer must have been having a lot going on in his head after portraying all those repressed/struggled gay characters in recent years, and all the experiences lead him to the remarkable performance in FT. He's really phenomenal!
Also I love your icon. I'm actually watching Doom Patrol now
@@gailymilkyway There are reasons to dislike Hawk when you compare him to Marcus. He is selfish, manipulative, lies all the time, and hurts people for his benefit. But it's easy to say what is decent in today's society was always that way and we should judge those based on today's standards.
Let's think about this. First, can Hawk and Tim live gay lives out and proud? Not really. Gay people had to lie about themselves, especially those in positions of power. Much of the reason Tim gets hurt is because he is so religious and so unable to get over Hawk.
Up to that point, Hawk's relationship had been purely transactional. It didn't hurt anyone as far as we could tell. He had sex with no commitments. He had no reason to expect Tim was any different. The concept of a gay man having love is very foreign to many who feel they are living sinful lives. Hawk just chooses not to believe in sin, but he knows society doesn't accept it.
It's Tim that pushes Hawk to change his mind, and that's a lot of work. Hawk is leery of love. He chooses to survive so he can do greater things, like fight communism. He can't do that if he gets caught and transactional sex fulfills a desire without the danger of commitment.
Tim is the cause of much of his own suffering. He knows that. Is it Hawk's fault that Tim can't get over Hawk? He was already suffering before he met Hawk when he admits that he had a gay encounter. He's already conflicted. In his effort to get Hawk to be more like him combined with Hawk's desire to be in control of Tim, Tim falls hopelessly for Hawk.
It's Hawk that's asked to change, not Tim. To a great extent, both Hawk and Tim struggle to make changes, but Hawk is actually far more successful than Tim. Tim is always burdened with Catholic guilt, but Hawk actually learns he can love, even if it takes him decades to do so.
And how can Tim blame Hawk for getting married to Lucy? So many gay men got married, many denied their own gay desires and felt getting married would solve their problems. That still happens, and certainly it happens in repressive countries.
And Lucy? She had her own affairs, too. She's actually very much like Tim. She wants Hawk to be a devoted husband, she wants him to be straight. And just as Tim feels he needs to be desired, so does Lucy. Many women in the same situation actually just suffered and did other things like focus their lives on their children, lead a monastic life, or cheated.
Think about the Clintons. This marriage feels like a sham too. Bill cheated, it seems, quite frequently. Men still cheat a lot, if they can get away with it. Tiger Woods cheated. I mean the list is too long to mention. Hillary knew this but being married to Bill benefited Hillary too.
It's sad, but there's only ever been one bachelor president. It was better for Hillary to pretend the marriage worked than to be honest and get a divorce and run for president as a single person. People do things for less than honorable reasons to benefit themselves.
Lucy even admits that she stayed with Hawk because his position gave her clout. Women have often married more for security. How often do we hear women that want to bag a rich man? They can do without love if they get lots of money. I mean, do we really believe Melania is doing it out of love?
Lucy knows Hawk is gay. But she has old-fashioned thoughts. Despite her brother's demons, she thinks Hawk can change, and give her love. She's under as much wish fulfillment as Tim.
The two suffer because they can't change their desires, and Hawk is the only one who makes some progress, and even he finds it hard to really change.
I often suggest people watch Rothaniel, the Netflix comedy special with Jerrod Carmichael. Jerrod is a gay black comedian raised in the South. His father cheated on his wife. Both his grandfathers not only cheated on their wives, but had multiple mistresses and multiple children. This was not that unusual in the day.
Women had no choice. Men could provide for them. And despite Jerrod's mother knowing her husband cheated on her, she forgave him. She had to so she could survive. She made an exception for her husband's infidelity because it suited her.
What couldn't her mother forgive? He son's homosexuality. The two were extremely close, and she chose to distance herself from her sinning son even as she forgave her sinning husband.
I think there's a case to be made that both Tim and Lucy made unrealistic expectations and had unrealistic feelings towards Hawk, and they just as complicit in their own suffering wishing Hawk could be someone he's not. And Hawk does change, albeit very slowly. Lucy was the one who insisted on children, then she blames Hawk for not loving her. She stays with Hawk for the children she insisted on having.
And it's not like Hawk didn't love his children. He really did.
That's my contrary view.
What a series this has been. It means so much to us that you both have put yourselves through this pain for us.
That what you guys were talking about, I said yesterday to my best friend. Fellow travellers doesn't tell you a story about black and white. There are so many sheets between and so many stories on the way. It is done so accurately in a very very brilliant way. Looking forward to your next reactions! Thxs!
Thank for the conversion speech.
In, France, 2 years ago, a law has been establish to forbid the development of this queer torture.
The law = "Act of January 31, 2022 prohibiting practices aimed at modifying a person's sexual orientation or gender identity."
I cried every single episode. Brutally beautiful. ❤
I am a trained psychologist and it is important to remember that for a very long time, homosexuality was categorized as a mental illness and we believed it even for ourselves. We actually did believe it could be treated and though we suspected the process was terrifying and had low instances of success, that did not mean we did not think it a viable path to saving ourselves from public censure and death.
Just watched the last episode… left me crying and speechless
you are simply not ready for the rest of this show so um enjoy!
7 and 8 destroyed me in a good and bad way 🥲
Just finished the last episode and it put me through the wringer! Can't wait to see what you think! What a great series, going to be thinking about it for a long while
Tim is vulnerable at times but can /have accepted his reality to certain degree so though he lost battle to AIDS but he is still at peace doing what he likes(helping others in distress) and living his true identity..but My heart break for Hawk every time..he can't even be true to himself..he couldn't even grief his childhood trauma and loosing his first love..he can't break down, can't let his guards down, can't protect his love and family and most of all can't have the stability in life that he always craved.. despite of all his selfish act i just can't hate this character..i sympathise with Hawk..
Ultimately, Hawk is a victim just like everyone else. He hates to be viewed as such, but that is the reality of this story. Fellow Travelers truly was delight.
I'm sorry if this comment comes out too harshly but I don't think you're really understanding Hawk's character, nor fully understanding the times they were leaving in. Doing what Hawk does here, or in any other episode, doesn't make you a bad person, he was simply trying to survive. Also, I don't agree on the whole "he's marrying Lucy to convince himself he's not gay" thing. Between Tim and Hawk, Hawk is actually the one that's more unapologetically gay. He doesn't feel guilt or shame about it as Tim does. He's the first person to acknowledge there's no sin in being gay and in what they were doing, he embraces his own homosexuality and lives it. He even stood up to his homophobic father - and okay, he might've done it in a scene where it's only just the two of them but it's not like in the 50s you could simply go around challenging homophobes about their homophobia (although he does that as well, with the guy that was interviewing him in episode 4, resulting in him getting polygraph tested). He simply realises and understands that he can't live his homosexuality openly and that (especially for men coming from a rich family and working in a powerful political position) there are certain societal expectations (such as getting married and having children) to be met, but that doesn't mean not accepting himself. He's simply protecting himself.
Very well put!
We understand his choices and that the environment made him this way, but he’s still a selfish person.
@@aragotodragons8848 No, most reactors (including them) act as if he's actually a bad person.
@@marika7349 He's not a bad person for wanting to survive, but that doesn't disqualify the fact that he's a selfish person. An "un-selfish" person would be someone like Tim, or Marcus, who are cautious and very private about their sexuality, but are still thoughtful and empathetic. Hawk simply doesn't possess those qualities. Hence why he always put his own pleasure and desires first without feeling any guilt if he hurt other people's feelings. Selfishness is not necessarily a bad trait because it's pretty inevitable in his scenario. But saying he's not selfish is wrong.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I hate Hawk from episode 1 to 7 tbh, but episode 8 changed my heart a little bit because Tim made me like him and made me appreciate Hawk's presence in his life.
PS.
Skippy and Lucy deserve so much better. 😭💔
I'm not going to forgive the makers ... The ending of this series hurt me with serious injuries...
Not better than Heartstopper, just different. You can’t compare IMO. Both extremely well done series with important representation in their own way.
Yeah, we absolutely need both.
Thank you for pointing out that conversion therapy still exists here in the UK. IT MAKES ME LIVID! 😡😡😡
guys, you need to watch GOOD OMENS. its just so so good...
How did I survive last night...... Thanks for your reaction I will stick here
Now I've seen them all and I cried the most during ep5. Broke me the most.
This episode was especially hard to watch, because I know 2 people who went through conversion therapy when we were young. One tried to kill himself when he got home, and the other is married with children now. He advocated for someone else we knew to go to conversion therapy too (thankfully, they didn't end up going). He probably would've suggested I go, if I'd be outed or honest growing up. He and his wife can't even get a divorce if they're unhappy (and I'd bet a million dollars they are), thanks to the fucked up religion we grew up in. If you watch the movie "Latter Days", you'll get an idea what it was like for them.
The worst thing is that even now there are people thinking that a human being could be a “nature’s mistake”
Oh god, this was only uploaded 3hrs ago?? Loving your reactions to this show, I was hoping to binge watch you going through the whole show already 😭 can’t wait to see your thoughts on the last 3 episodes…they’re a doozy
For some background about Smith, look up Senator Lester Hunt and his son Buddy.
This episode completely broke me. I love this show I can’t wait for episode 8 to the available. Also I kinda have a crush on Josh 😅
Also, I just finished the series and had to go back to watch Heartstopper again to refresh my hope and my heart. I am 56 and I hope this series can tell some of later generations what we had to survive and why Heartstopper means so much to us.
I honestly don't who is more cuter ? Hawk and Tim or you guys ? The candle bit 😅 honestly you guys are so cute snd funny i just loved your interactions and how you complete each other lines ❤❤❤
Converson therapie is the worst. I saw this movie called boy erased once and I am so happy they did not show it in this show
I haven’t seen anyone pick up on the fact that the guy Leonard picks out in the toilets is dressed a bit like Hawke. That was the first thought I had.
Love the schitt's creek inspired shirt! Lol
Please review the last 3 episodes back to back..I really wanna hear everyone talk about this beautiful piece of art.. what a beautifully crafted show..n keep tissue handy , you are gonna need it..
Guys! Catch up! Episodes 6 & 7 are just brilliant!!!
9:40 that sentence hit hard, bc it's so true and it's not often you look at stuff like this and realise how little we have progressed in some ways
I hate this. I hate cry 😭
This whole episode was brilliant, but what was super fascinating was when homophobia was used to bring down McCarthy and Cohn. Talk about viewing history through a queer lens! Cohn is utterly repulsive here, but when the Army Council says, “I think a pixie is kind of like… a fairy,” you can’t feel good. Evil is being brought down, but through the same homophobic means as good is attacked in the show. Anyway, I love you guys and how you bring us that very gay combination of analysis and real emotion. Keep up the great work (and do the HBO mini-series of “Angels in America” and the Netflix movie of “Boys in the Band.”)
Ricardo Brown , wrote a telling memoir . Evening crowd at Klemsers.. telling about the people that came to an unofficial gay meeting space in St Paul , Minn. . I’ve walked past the space where it stood. Minneapolis had a place also. Viking Bar at the old Radisson hotel.
It's giving brokeback mountain with all these years in between and separate lives they live and explore. It's so sad :(
Get your tissues ready because the next few episodes are going to be devastating. PS: In the book, the whole story takes place in the 1950s. Hawk is an f** son of a ...
“Do you ever ask why it's not black and white?
How you sleep at night when you're just like me?” -Louis Tomlinson
Yeah the ending 😢
I know, Hauk's a complicated character, but god I hate him. I hate him from my guts.
I didn’t know what to do with myself after watching the finale last night. 🥹
Also want to let you know this is real life story of ppl many Tim’s and hawks and Marcus and frankie. Nothing is fictional.
This show is so depressing and bleak, yet I cannot stop watching it. A true work of art!
After it’s all said and done. I will like to hear your opinion on side characters like Roy Cohn. It was so interesting to me that he was a real person. I didn’t even know of him
kinda didnt like hawk since episode 3 this episode kind of made me hate him
Wait did Alex actually get the necklace back? 😅🤣
Alex’s T-shirt is giving 💙
I love Josh to death
❤❤❤❤❤❤
2:47 I hope this episode helps remind todays queers why there should be No Cops At Pride! ✊ They are not, and have never been, our allies.
And yea, despite understanding him and even occasionally pitying him, I grew to despise Hawk more and more with each episode (until the very last one anyway)
I can’t wait for the rest of your reactions to this show 💔
Hawk destroyed each member of this family to save himself and get ahead. No wonder this boy was so angry all the time. He called it.
Would it have killed Hawk to hold Skippy's hand for even a minute. He's clearly distraught but Hawk be like, while you're on the ground, let me finish the job. Horrible person
I respect this perspective, but I also thing it ignores several key points about Hawk as a character. This is a guy who is *constantly* telling Tim he is better off without him, and honestly, its hard not to agree sometimes! "I think you should go back inside and lock the door", "I should've left you alone." These are warnings to Skippy that getting involved with Hawk is a bad move, and that Hawk cannot offer what Tim wants. But Tim is a grown ass man who repeatedly reaches out to Hawk anyway (not that Hawk doesn't too of course). I think that Hawk refusing Tim affection at this point is not him being heartless, its him realizing he's already done enough damage and refusing to do any more.
@@rileynewman-gatton8549 editing to warn you that there are SPOILERS ahead!
nah he's just manipulating him so he can be blame free. Textbook examples TBH. In this particular case though, what's most upsetting is that he refused to lend him any kind of support when Skippy is at his lowest. His world just shattered and he just needed someone to hug him and tell him everything was going to be ok. It's the lack of kindness and compassion or just consideration that he shows that's disheartening. He could have broken the news to him once he felt a little better. So callous.
Also Skippy did his best to stay away but kept falling in Hawk's traps because he'd lure him back every time he needed something from him. Right from the start, it was about him, his ambition, his safety but his priorities were all wrong. If he weren't such a coward, they'd have been able to act on their desire and love for each other, have a life together. By the time Hawk has the courage it's too late. Yet, he's still the one who survives.
I hope he suffers for having taken conscious decisions that he knew would limit Skippy's chances at love and a good job. He's as insufferable as closeted republicans today who actively hurt queer people so their position and privileges are not taken away.
It's difficult not to feel sympathy for Hawk some of the times. That Matt plays him probably doesn't help us keep a clear head but he still humanized him compared to how gross he is in the book. I find it interesting that people still defend him at the end of the series because they can't help see the positive side of him and blame the circumstances instead of him. The man made choices that you see other people in that situation did not. They dealt with it without hurting everyone, including those that gave meaning to his life.
For me, the last episode sealed the deal. I have very little sympathy for him and do wonder if he wouldn't just have been a different kind of horrible if the obstacles to get ahead were not homophobia but some other thing.
I'm not blaming him for not being able to make lemonade with the lemons life threw at him. We all deal with our problems differently. I am far from guilt free myself and not exactly living my authentic life openly myself. But he took those lemons and decided to poison everyone around him. He's lucky his daughter is still by his side at the end.
@@i.t.t. SPOILERS! I never read the book and It sounds like he was a lot more of just a straight up dick than he was in the show. But I disagree with the idea that other people got out without hurting people. Mary turns in her actual long term live in partner and we as an audience were fine with that. Marcus left Frankie on the street to get beaten up by cops and god knows who else and we forgave Marcus and watched him grow. Even though Marcus was still struggling with this in the 70's as well. Tim starts an affair with Hawk knowing he's married with a baby on the way. To say Hawk is the only guy in these circumstances that makes harmful choices is just inaccurate. The reason why he won't hold Tim is they are literally in the middle of the sidewalk where anyone could see??? Tim just randomly shows up unannounced and gets way too close for plausible deniability, and yeah I get it because his world is falling apart, but its not like the cops will let them go because Tim's having a bad day. If it had been Frankie coming to Marcus in the middle of the street in distress, I'm sure that if Frankie tried to hold Marcus the way Tim tried to hold Hawk, Marcus would have recoiled in the exact same way that Hawk did. Hawk has no issue showing affection to Tim when they're in safe places, in their apartments, the cozy corner, Fire Island, in the cabin, etc. Yes Hawk absolutely is a coward, but I also think he's just more calculating? Tim isn't actually brave enough to want to be out in the 50's either, he just doesn't know the rules/isnt as hyperaware of appearances as Hawk. Frankie is really the only one who is truly brave in that sense for a good 20+ years. Hawk still is 100% responsible for his choices, and he makes HORRIBLE ones, but I think its again, way too simplistic to say everyone else was nice and Hawk was just a completely unfeeling conniving jackass. Hawk made those choices in 1957, clearly feels horrible about them, and does everything he can reasonably do to help Tim when their paths cross in later years. He gets Tim out of Baltimore, gives him a safehouse, gets him a lawyer, offers him a house, pines for him, This doesn't excuse the things he's done, I just think someone who didn't care what they'd done would make the choices Hawk did.
@@rileynewman-gatton8549
*****SPOILERS HERE AS WELL*****
I see what you are saying. I think I do and please do correct me if I'm reading you wrong because there are things I said that you are getting wrong. I might be failing to be express myself well enough so please allow me to clarify what I am trying to say.
First of all, believe me, I'm not saying that Hawk was the only person who made bad choices. I was absolutely not fine at all with what Mary did and I also thought that Marcus could be quite horrible at first. I could see why he was good friends with Hawk. I can also understand and sympathize with their predicament because so much of it was based on the repression around them and their need to survive. I grew up in such an environment. I've seen people do pretty terrible things and pretty desperate things just so that they could survive. But for me that is where it's at. How different people went about it and who snitched on whom, who was cowardly and who did what they had to do without dragging everyone down with them, just as Skippy stood firm by his beliefs and chose to turn himself in than rat out his fellow protestors. The difference between the different people in the series (notably Marcus) is that they evolved over time while Hawk remained a coward until he had to be bullied into seeing beyond himself even at the very end.
That time you mention about the hug, Skippy asked to go upstairs. I will never unhear the way he was begging Hawk to *please* go upstairs. Of course he wasn't asking for the hug in the middle of the straight. He just needed comforting. Why couldn't Hawk oblige just as Skippy did for him, time and time and time again, right from the start?
As for Skipply, he was very naive but also very young and idealistic, fresh out of college. Hawk was attracted to him yes but he was just looking for a play thing and also someone he knew he could easily chew up for his benefit and discard him later. He had no intention of falling in love with him and that's what makes this story so compelling. When they met, Skippy was acting on impulse and wasn't getting that his actions were very risky. I think that over the years, he became much wiser, even more so than Hawk, who was much older than him. Take the example of when he was speaking with Jackson. While he was there taking care of him, he used the same words that Hawk once used with him about everyone lying. He barely knew the kid but sat to take care of him knowing how risky it was for him to even be chatting with him. His humanity trumped his need to be safe.
Did Tim rekindle their relationship knowing that Lucy was pregnant? I need to rewatch the episode. I don't remember but I'm too destroyed at the moment for that. One thing that was clear to me though is how when he saw the new baby, he realized that it was silly to think that he could just come back and continue a relationship with Hawk, "without any expectations". I'll remind you that it was Hawk who kept giving him high hopes throughout. At that moment though, I think Skippy understood that what they had was difficult to justify. No matter how deep the feels, they couldn't just ignore their responsibilities. Hawk wasn't just married for appearances and living a double life. He had a family and now a whole new life had entered the scene. Skippy knew what the right thing to do was and he left. Hawk, on the other hand, just went on about "lowering his zipper" only when the need became too much. First of all, I don't believe him but I can't blame him for it either. It's the part where he is deluded himself in thinking that he is still honouring the vows he took. It didn't take long for him to go back to his old ways. He'd thrown Skippy under the bus, and I cannot stress the fact that he did this after McCarthy and Cohn were gone, for nothing.
Look, I'm not saying that Hawk didn't suffer. I think the trauma he's been carrying since his father caught him with Kenny has done a lot of damage to him and there was no therapy at the time lol. However, my problem with him is that he knew when he was doing something wrong and did it because he always found ways to justify it. He actively hurt people. That's what makes him unforgivable, especially the part where it was after things had calmed down at work. I honestly have no understanding how Skippy could forgive him so many times. I know I haven't been able to be that gracious with the Hawks in my life.
I think that all the things he did, that you describe at the end, it's
a/ partly because he feels guilty about what he did to Skippy and it ate him up, considering that he never stopped seeking out men anyway, including the guy who worked for him in their country home. He couldn't even keep it at a safe distance away. That's literally rule number 1.
b/ And also, he just really loves him. That's the most heartbreaking part of it all. I wouldn't be conflicted about so many things and feeling so deeply sad about how the story developed and ended if he was just a narcissistic prick. The problem with these two men is that they were intensely in love with each other. They were not good for each other though. The problem is that they were the endgame.
The last scene was so heartbreaking, perhaps because it is the first time we hear him verbalize what he really thought and felt. I want to believe that he got to go to Italy after all and live out his dream as he once confessed them to Skippy. Even he deserves a 2nd chance and maybe he could spend the rest of his life living his truth in peace and celebrating the people who will love him because he will love them back and treat them accordingly.
@@rileynewman-gatton8549 Well put!
And we say hawk wasn't like Roy cohn
Heartstopper is way better imo but I can get understand the importance of FT and how this story has to be told. Also, I'm watching this at 4am and just woke my other half up laughing out loud at the Josh doing maths in bed 🤣🤣🤣
I mean they’re totally different shows. It’s sort of like comparing To All the Boys I’ve Loved Before and like, idk, 1917. You’re more than welcome to like one more than the other (I personally tend to prefer romcoms over historical dramas), but they’re not really similar enough to be comparable at all. If anything, this show would be better compared against like Maurice or Interview with the Vampire.
@@call_rickey you're not wrong. I was just commenting on the comparison that Josh & Alex made in the video :)
I have now adopted the habit of watching one episode of FT and watching one episode of AWST reactions because I need, genuinely need, the parasocial moral support because godDAMN this series is HEAVY.
Thanks so much for doing what you do, im gonna go find a way to heal from this one 🥲