The moment Hawk and Tim share in bed is so depressing. Hawk spends the entire time looking at Tim's face, and Tim pretty much never looks at Hawk's. Tim struggles to keep that moment impersonal out of the messed up guilt it makes him feel. Hawk, on the other hand, is experiencing sexual intimacy (or trying to) when the sex he's been having for years is the antithesis of that. He also kind of admitted he loves Tim. Tim said his 2 truths were loving Hawk and loving God, and that he could only love God now. Hawk said he felt that way about his family, implying his 2nd truth was the same as Tim's. This whole situation is so unfair for everyone, including Lucy. She got screwed out of finding someone who would romantically love and desire her because of society's heteronormative bullshit that made Hawk feel like he had to use her as a beard.
I imagine how hard it was for Matt Bomer(a real loving father in reality) to shoot the scenes of an ignorant father of a son who is in so much pain and to face the eventual loss that is shown so beautifully in the 7th episode..
For me the ending was a perfect example of how parenting must have been like back then, and how both Lucy and Hawk are portrayed as parents in this episode: Jackson is clearly bravely expressing that he feels something is "wrong" with him (I personally interpret it as being mental health related as, no spoilers, he seems depressed at best in this episode), and Hawk just tells him he is fine, thus making it more difficult for Jackson to articulate what exactly feels wrong. I do think that Hawk was trying to be a better father, but you can see throughout the episode how he was trying to impose strict discipline - I think perhaps as a way of reassuring himself that he was a "real man of the house" in a patriarchal way? This show is so interesting on so many levels. Be prepared to cry guys, it gets better and worse in the next 2 episodes.
The final episode will make you cry like a baby! I cried! I finally finished the book and the ending is much worse, much sadder than in the series! I feel so, so sad for these characters, specially for Tim! His final plot is devastating.
I wish we could have delve into Lucy's moment with her mother! That scene was truly poignant, especially the mother's words urging Lucy to find comfort in Hawk coming home each night reguardless of who he spends the day with. It touched on such sensitive themes - societal expectations, women's resilience in the face of infidelity, and the complex dynamics of family relationships. This short scene resonates with broader societal narratives surrounding infidelity and gender roles at the time. This entire episode gives a deeper understanding of Lucy's character and the intricate web of emotions she carries. She has known all along her husband is in love with another man and she ignores it to pick the easier role that society has written for her, the dutiful wife.
Sadly, this is still the norm in a lot of countries. I still hear young women saying this about their husband sleeping around. At the end of the day, he still comes home to me and he's a good father to our children. Because him cheating is not even an idea they can entertain. In return they continue to be the dutiful wife.
And like so many great things in the TV "adaptation" of Thomas Mallon's fine 2007 novel, the development of Lucy as a real character is entirely the work of showrunner Ron Nyswaner. Add to that the long list of characters (and subplots) he created from the ground up, including Senator Smith, Marcus, Frankie and Jerome, the lesbian couple (in the book Mary is straight) and Hawk and Lucy's son Jackson... wow!
@@i.t.t. Be mindful of the societal norms of the time and place, which would have made openly acknowledging same-sex relationships within a marriage highly unconventional. I love Hawk but he is selfish and controlling in nature, as well as his reluctance to be vulnerable...would make this arrangement unlikely as he would have never told Lucy he was gay (much less tell himself). Marrying for protection would not become more "mainstream" till the 70s and certainly the 80s during the start of the AIDS crisis.
This is an amazing series definitely one of the best imo...I watched the finale last night and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed...I loved it and thnk it was very important viewing. I'm loving the lbgtq+ films and series that are coming out recently and feel they will go along way towards getting people to rethink their views...I learnt so much I didn't know but should have known whether straight or gay.....and you guys are too much...have been giggling at Alex constantly, you both do a brilliant job xx
This is so true. I used to hate the sad endings or that queer films just routinely saw us punished, by death more often than not. With all the different types that we have now and explore us in all our dimensionality, it is possible to take this in without thinking omg not this again. This is my favourite queer-themed series and I've seen so many of them to the point that I can't find any that I haven't
I think you are right when you say that the bed scene is painful. It made me feel so sad, they both love each other and all they want to is to have sex, but for different - but equal absurd to me - reasons they don’t allow themselves to do it. It’ really painful.
It‘s also bittersweet in a way, because Tim is clearly in control of how far they’ll go and Hawk respects that. Tim tries to somewhat act more „celibate“ and won’t allow himself to fall completely into Hawk’s seduction trap, even though for Hawk it would be so easy to have actual sex here, nothing‘s holding him back except for Tim‘s decision. :(
You guys believe I cannot watch the reaction video to episode 8? I can’t afford for my heart to break again. I haven’t touched the very finale since I saw it for the first time. This serie gave me such strong emotions.
I don’t think Tim is a bad role model on account of facing 12 years of jail. The unjust motivation for the long jail sentence is to use Tim as a warning ⛔️ to discourage others.
I feel so deep for Hawk... in his experience when he is himself the people he loves die (his first boyfriend). The person he considered like a father and that he really looked up to to make some change in the world lets his son be taken to conversion therapy and shoots himself showing Hawk nobody will ever accept gay people... He's really trying his best to protect himself and the people he loves. He feels like the whole world is out there to get him. And to think that he tries so hard to lie to Lucy, he wastes so much energy trying to be something he is not for her when she's known his secret all along!!! It breaks my heart!!!! When Jackson tries to open up to him saying he thinks there's something wrong with him Hawk tries to comfort him at the best of his abilities... his dad kicked him out of the house, he's there for his son, he's trying to tell him that he loves him no matter what, that's what he would have wanted to hear from a father figure, that it didn't matter, that he was loved anyway. But Jackson needed more than that, Jackson needed his father to ask questions to be able to talk about it, he wasn't just asking for love and acceptance, he was asking for help
I have one complaint about this episode and it's that the first flashback to the “just recently married” 50s time period isn't immediately clear that it is not happening in the Tim/hawk 70s era. There are only a couple of clues like Lucy’s hair length but its position between the scenes that surround it might make you think it's just you the morning after the previous scene since Hawk looks basically the same in both eras
I had the 'pleasure' of having two boyfriends who were like Hawk, except I didn't find out until one year from the end of our relationships - both of them! The more of the series I watched the angrier I became. When I saw the quilt with Tim's name on it I lost it.
I would like to recommend a very good film for you to watch, the name is "The Normal Heart". I don't know if you've seen it but this film is exciting and very interesting. It talks about the lives of queer people in the 80s in NY at the beginning of the AIDS crisis and talks a little more about this discovery and the struggle of these people to be seen by the government that at the time ignored the emergency situation
I doen't think Mark Ruffalo is gay. However there are certainly a goodly number of "out" gay actors in the cast, including Jonathan Groff, Joe Mantello, Stephen Spinella and BD Wong.@@albatizon6681
Hawk is the most flawed character in this series but also I think represent most queer lives back then..it's all about survival and denial at this point..but seeing the son struggling specially with his father is so heartbreaking 😢..but it's a fact, parents don't like their kids have the same "flaws" that they have and prefer to avoid talking about it or looking at the opposite direction and convince themselves that "no we haven't passed that to them".. Lucy and the kids deserve better 😢
A great follow-up to this series (and the Thomas Mallon novel from which it sprang) is James Kirchick's "Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington." It traces the perilous course of gay men and lesbians in D.C. through the entire 20th Century, divided by the various Presidential administrations. about 600 pp of narrative, 200 pp of notes... exhaustive but not exhausting!
Chicos, les escribo en español porque se me vienen a la mente algunas cosas y no se como traducirlas de la manera que quiero hacerla en español jajajja pero yo termine de ver Fellow Travelers y ver su reaccion del capitulo 6 me costó mucho porque aun me duele porque...(como lo digo) la historia de Tim y Hawk me hizo pedacitos el corazon y debo decir sinceramente, que hace mucho muuuuchooo tiempo no lloraba de una manera que me costara respirar como con el final de esta serie :( incluso no he podido re-ver escenas y apenas algunos videos edits de internet, porque me marcó tanto emocionalmente la historia, que me es dificil incluso hablarla o contarla a los demas....Es y sigue siendo super duro todo lo que ocurre con la Comunidad LGBTQ+ y todas las historias de personas que sufren actualmente y tambien sufrieron en el pasado con toda la represion y homofobia y es muy duro de ver proyectado en una serie, que ademas te involucra en una hermosa historia de amor a traves de casi 30 años... Esta es una tremenda serie y a pesar del dolor que siento aun, estoy tan agradecida de que hace unos meses me aparecieran ustedes en youtube ya que han sido una compañia para mi y me he reido tanto tambien :D y sus recomendaciones me hicieron llegar a ver esta serie, que sinceramente, me cambio la vida.... nunca podre agradecer lo suficiente que me hayan permitido conocer esta serie y a estos increibles actores y seres humanos :) Les escribo desde Chile, Latinoamerica y de antemano, preparense para el capitulo 7 que es una montaña rusa emocional jajajja y el ultimo que para mi, aun no supero :( abracitos y amooo sus reacciones y recomendaciones de esta y muchas series y pelis :)
Not that it matters in the larger scheme of life, but Matt Bomer did get a Golden Globe nomination for this show a few weeks ago. _Fellow Travelers_ won't be eligible for the Emmys until next year (the 24-25 season), because the cutoff date was May 31st of 2023, where the Golden Globes runs on a calendar year. The show is also nominated in the Limited Series/Movie Made for Television . The other five titles are strong, though…
I think I hated Hawk thru so much of this series because of who he is in comparison to Tim. Tim is the most earnest, compassionate, and principled man in the world, so when Hawk treats him the way he does, he comes off as EXTRA despicable
“Gay Cabin in the Woods” got me thinking…if you guys ever want to try more queer horror movies, then I would definetly reccomend and wanna hear what you think of Knock at the Cabin. It’s starring Ben Aldridge and Jonathan Groff!
8:08 What you say here is actually really deep. I hadn't thought about it but Skippy is a great role model to Jack, in a way that Hawk wasn't to him. I think that him going to jail doesn't take anything away from that role because he's not going for doing something wrong either. In any case, he's giving him advice about the man who is also causing him heartache and nobody is better placed for that. You really made me think about Lucy here. The lying part. I couldn't imagine that he would ever tell her and probably thought he was being clever this whole time. I mean he fooled the polygraph, right? lol Not after what he did to her brother and as a result her father's suicide. However, we did see her telling Hawk about what she thought about homosexuality when speaking about the gayz she met in Europe. He should have told her at one point anyway because she was going to find out anyway. She wouldn't have to go and flirt with that man just to see if she still got it. She could have gone to find someone who would give her the sex life and satisfaction that she also deserved. I wondered for a long time if she'd seen that letter before she got married. Seeing the convo she had with the women, it seems to me that she didn't. It was afterwards and she was knee deep in her fantasy world by then. I think that she was willing to turn a blind eye so long as she could keep living the life that was promised to her, including the reputation of the family (though Jackson, as perceptive as he was, saw right through them). It was when all that was threatened that she blew up. She was willing to tolerate everything so long as the appearances didn't suffer and they could still provide for the family without getting in trouble with the law to boot. . The question that this raises for me (especially after having finished the series) is, when was that exactly though. At what stage did Skippy write that letter and what did he do next? I keep thinking about the significance of that letter but mostly because I don't think I understand it. How would that have changed anything with Hawk. I hope your next reaction/review (or anyone, please) will help me with this. Celibacy - for me anyway, just means that you're not having sex with someone else. Solo sex or the meeting of needs on our own is excluded. What Skippy is struggling with is to do with his religion and their version of celibacy doesn't allow masturbation, let alone what they did. Plus what do you mean there was no sin in what they did? Adultery? I don't know if I agree that Hawk treats Skippy as a convertible in the car as he was away and came back now but it is true that all the effort they've made at staying away from each other doesn't help them in any way get over each other. Indeed, in the way they try to break the rules (like Mormon girls doing anal or something) just makes Skippy feel worse. He is so torn, it's heartbreaking. Hawk, at least is clear about what he wants and who he is. That and because he is in control of most of the actions that we see in the series (within the cage he is) and it's the others who have to suffer the consequences of his choices, he is probably suffering less... up to this episode anyway. Skippy is fighting the demon within and the repression outside, which was so well demonstrated in the only and super odd sex scene we get this episode. I didn't enjoy it much either because this wasn't based on kinky play and there was nothing gratifying abou tit. It's all just so heart-wrenching and the suffering does continue and intensifies for all involved because they really are endgame.
Late to this party, but I think Hawk is absolutely suffering, and emotionally more repressed than all the others even if he is trying to have both sides. This series is heartbreaking for literally every character.
Again a suggestion to do back to back with ep 7 and 8 u will understand why when u see ep 7 and ep 8. So pls try to finish it and then continue whatever it is tat u are doing next
You guys should checkout the movie "The normal heart" If you haven't already! It's an INCREDIBLE movie!!! I will worn you that you'll need boxes of tissues!
From Lucy's standpoint, she did what so many women felt they had to do in the late 50s and early 60s. Marry a man and have his children ---and as fast as possible. Locking Hawk down with a marriage and kids was her guarantee of fulfilling her destiny no matter the costs. Once married what's done is done. Carry on. Divorce would never be an option no matter what. Divorce was not as common then as it is today. She needed to seal the deal with Hawk. The clock was ticking. Finding that letter, as shocking as it was, forced her to make the split decision to burn it so that Hawk would never see it. It was the most profound decision she'd ever make in her life at that point. That was her moment to take control. The one being manipulated finally became the manipulator. It gave her what she wanted, but a price she would be paying for for the decades to come.
This is a favourite comment. Have you figured out when Skippy wrote that letter tho? I haven't and also can't grasp its significance. What would it have changed?
Skippy was a passionate person. Loving, sensitive and caring. That letter was more for his well-being than Hawk's. Skippy knew that when he wrote it. He slid it under Hawk's apartment door just before going overseas with the army. He was heading towards a new chapter in his life. Moving on. He enlisted just to break away from Hawk who had already told him of his intentions of proposing to Lucy. Skippy needed to write the letter to get Hawk out of his head. It must have felt cathartic for him to put his words on paper letting Hawk know how he was moving on. Telling Hawk in person was not an option. So writing a letter and hand-delivering it to his door was how he dealt with it. A letter like that could not be put in the mail for anyone to possibly see. Ironically, while packing up Hawk's apartment Lucy intercepted the letter and read it. It's worth noting here how she then burns the letter. She could have simply ripped it up or tossed it in the trash. But, that wasn't good enough. She had to see the letter burn in an attempt to make those words go away. Snub them out. For me, I couldn't help but appreciate the look on Skippy's face the moment Lucy told him that she had found that letter. "Read it...and then burned it". That look was priceless. It became abundantly clear to Skippy that Hawk had been played. Even Hawk, the man Skippy always saw as bulletproof was not immune to deception. And why, you might ask did Lucy feel the need to tell Skippy. She was wounded. Even after all those years, Hawk still has this man in his life. Proof that she'd never snub out those words, ever. So, she did what so many wounded people do. She wounded Skippy. As he walked away leaving her home, she "took that dagger and stabbed him in the back" metaphorically speaking. Hurt people hurt people. @@i.t.t.
@@johnnyebarrera1380 SPOILERS AHEAD Thank you for the detailed answer and a perspective I hadn't considered. It makes a lot of sense to me what you say, especially in terms of why that letter was important to Skippy. I was kind of stuck on that it wouldn't have changed the nature of their relationship anyway. At first I also thought that he had written the letter before he went away to Fort Dickson (or, I thought later, overseas) but the way they go back and forth in time, I had to wonder if the letter didn't come after the confession he made, when he accidentally said "i love him" to the priest (Father Lawrence?), after he'd already been in the army for awhile and decided to try something else, something meaningful. The way the letter was worded, it felt like it was just before he joined the seminary. I considered that he joined the seminary after the baby/the events we see in E8 but for him to say "I still love you", that couldn't have been just a few weeks later and also the part where he wrote "hoping to find something else maybe a deeper faith some day... to take your place" sounds like the disillusion he was already feeling in the army and fits the part where he said in 69 that Father Lawrence helped him find the faith that he had lost. But also, at the same time, I find it hard to believe that so much time had passed between that and the scene where we see Lucy is packing up Hawk's flat. Gosh, I'm so confused. They could have made that a bit clearer. At first I couldn't even really tell the difference between 1968 and whenever it is that we had the contractor/Lucy's mum scene. To me, by the letter scene, Hawk and Lucy were already married. Lucy was saying to her mother that they didn't need that extra expense after the mother said that she was surprised he FINALLY accepted to give up his DC flat. At the end of the day, he comes home to you because he loves you and the rest is just the meeting of needs and nothing to worry about... just like it was for her and Lucy's father. This was after he'd told the mom (before he went out to chat to the contractor lol) that Lucy had been great at decorating their place that he had renovated... The timing of the letter isn't very important when it comes to what you say. I mean in terms of Lucy's feeling and her reaction, especially the burning bit. I am 100% with you on that. Also Skippy's reaction to the violence of her words. That whole scene is brilliant and I find it even more impactful after reading your words. What is important to me about the timing of the letter is whether she married him after she found out that he was gay or not. I just can't imagine she'd still go ahead with it given what happened to her dad and her brother but then again, she'd had affairs in Europe and was no longer a virgin, which was a big deal back then but to the point of choosing him over other someone else. Someone of her status and class, I'm sure there was no lack of suitable prospects? Thanks if you read all that but please get me out of my misery if you have this figured out.
I’m still wondering what the son was truly struggling with. When he says “I think something is wrong with me” it seemed more sincere and self-aware than anything he’s said about how his parents both lie etc. and the drugs and stealing etc aren’t what he feels is wrong with him, but his coping mechanisms. I have some ideas but I don’t have enough data to base them on so I won’t say
I think that the addition of Jackson to the story -- in the original novel, Hawk and Lucy only have a daughter, named Susan -- is so brilliant and heartwrenching.
I totally agree on what you’re saying about the hero and Tom, Hawk and Lucy, even though I believe I would much rather be Tom/Lucy than Hawk… I wanna live, I don’t wanna just survive.
Please please please do a recap with the top 5 or top 10 sex scenes of this series. We deserve it for Christmas!!! Congratulations for the channel. Love you beyond mesure!
I think this show does a good job of exploring how homophobia, racism, and patriarchy have affected people over the decades, and shows the intersection between those things. With respect to Lucy, you need to remember how the patriarchal system worked in all these the time periods. It was expected that men cheat on their wives because they had certain "needs" that couldn't be fulfilled by one woman alone, and women were forced to just kind of look the other way. It didn't have to do with allyship, unfortunately, it just had to do with how little women were allowed to ask for in their relationships with men. Think of Hawk as a long lost cousin to Don Draper. Lucy just had the unspoken contract many women did to not ask questions and compartmentalize their lives. Hawk, Tim and Lucy are all victims of the oppressive times they were living in. In a more progressive world, Hawk and Tim would have just decided to be together from the get go and Lucy and Hawk never would have married.
And thinking about what you were saying about Hawk treating Tim like a sportscar he takes for spin every once in awhile, it also reminds me of Don Draper and how he acted in a lot of his relationships as well. With Mad Men, it was kind of like this cocktail of existential angst, capitalism, and patriarchy that served as the backdrop for some of Don's choices and his inability to really connect with other people... for FT, it's the homophobia and toxic masculinity that makes people like Hawk feel disconnected, too busy fighting for survival to get the love they would really want from the people in their lives. They have a lot in common as characters and what they are willing to do for survival.
Never seen you both breakdown badly whilst watching a series or movie but trust me next two episodes pls be ready. You cant really move on from the next two episodes atleast for a year
@@Moffel83. he was haunted by his own choices. Others were affected by his choices that's y they were able to set themselves free in the end while he would remain prisoner to his guilt
Bomer and Williams have said that they believe that Hawk and Lucy genuinely loved each other. And through the years, many gay men in these situations have said they really did love their wives. After all, love and sex are not the same thing and the latter often confound the former and make people think they love someone they do not. Indeed, some of these marriages, despite the core issue, were more truly loving because there was not the sex to define the parameters of their commitments to each other. Sadly, too many of those men were also unable to resist the temptations of living their true sexual desires and that felt too much like emotional and personal betrayal to those wives.
That is actually shown very well in the movie Maestro as well which stars Bradley Cooper as Leonard Bernstein. Bernstein was gay (one of his male lovers is played by Matt Bomer in the movie) but married a woman (played by Carey Mulligan). He genuinely loved her and the movie focuses on their love story. Their kids who themselves call their father a gay man acknowledge that their parents loved each other and had a loving relationship for the most part. Hawk also loved Lucy, just not romantically and sexually. The decisions that Hawk made on the show... He was not the only man who made them. Bernstein (of the same generation as Hawk) was another one, Larry Trainor (also the same generation) on Doom Patrol (also played by Matt Bomer) was another man who chose to marry a woman and hide his homosexuality. It's horrible how common it was 😟
@@Moffel83. so glad you brought up Doom Patrol. I was also thinking about Larry Trainor and how coincidental it was that Bomer played that role. Given his real life background, it makes so much sense that he would gravitate to these roles.
You know lil nas x wasn't too far off. While not as camp as his portrayal, that was the silver lining for some gays that ended up in prison back then. Yes prison is not where you ideally want to be, but for some, they were able to find their own oasis in a sense and love behind bars, or so I am told. Not caught up on the series yet but it would be interesting if they touched on this.
In light of the hate-filled souls in Heartstopper fandom who never want to see any redemption or relief from pain for Ben, I wonder if you two would think of doing a comparison between Ben Hope and Hawk? I feel they are not so different and treat those around them with a similar disregard for their pain as a result of the anguish they've each internalized.
the difference is that ben is not a main character and doesn’t deserve any more screen time. that’s not the show heartstopper is, and “hate-filled souls” is a touch dramatic
Sorry, guys, but I disagree with you on the character of Lucy. She has known about her husband's sexuality since before their marriage, and she still went on with that charade because she yearned for the life Hawk could give her. She even put up with her husband's affair with Andrew, their contractor, in the pursuit of that lifestyle. At some point people should bear the consequences of their choices, and out of Hawk and Tim, she is the least deserving of empathy as she had the most options. Hawk and Tim followed the two paths accessible to them, with the former marrying a woman and having childred and the latter becoming a perpetual nomad seeking some kind of security and sincerity in his life. She opted to marry Hawk not out of love or necessity but out of sheer vanity and greed.
so, I don't know if I'm only one who felt this way, because it's not really addressed later in the episodes. But when Jackson says "I think there's something wrong with me.." does anyone else think that might be hinting at queerness?
I think he's more hinting at mental health struggles, but Hawk sort of stops him by saying he's fine, which...well, I'll let the guys see the remaining 2 episodes
I did consider it. I don't know what he knew about his dad though. He'd have probably tried to talk to him about it if that were the case. The addiction problem is one they also shared though and maybe they would talk about it later. I agree with @user-qu8zs7vs1x . I think he might have been trying to get the conversation started and might have felt how one does with toxic positivity. Whatever he was struggling with, that could be season 2 although I am aware that this is wishful thinking.
Really, Skippy? Afterwards is when you decide Hawk needs to leave you alone?? Do me a favor. I mean, Hawk treats u like garbage, but romping in bed with him is not the time to judge morality.
The moment Hawk and Tim share in bed is so depressing. Hawk spends the entire time looking at Tim's face, and Tim pretty much never looks at Hawk's. Tim struggles to keep that moment impersonal out of the messed up guilt it makes him feel. Hawk, on the other hand, is experiencing sexual intimacy (or trying to) when the sex he's been having for years is the antithesis of that. He also kind of admitted he loves Tim. Tim said his 2 truths were loving Hawk and loving God, and that he could only love God now. Hawk said he felt that way about his family, implying his 2nd truth was the same as Tim's. This whole situation is so unfair for everyone, including Lucy. She got screwed out of finding someone who would romantically love and desire her because of society's heteronormative bullshit that made Hawk feel like he had to use her as a beard.
I imagine how hard it was for Matt Bomer(a real loving father in reality) to shoot the scenes of an ignorant father of a son who is in so much pain and to face the eventual loss that is shown so beautifully in the 7th episode..
I believe Hawk is suffering just as much as everyone else. he's just better at hiding it.
For me the ending was a perfect example of how parenting must have been like back then, and how both Lucy and Hawk are portrayed as parents in this episode: Jackson is clearly bravely expressing that he feels something is "wrong" with him (I personally interpret it as being mental health related as, no spoilers, he seems depressed at best in this episode), and Hawk just tells him he is fine, thus making it more difficult for Jackson to articulate what exactly feels wrong. I do think that Hawk was trying to be a better father, but you can see throughout the episode how he was trying to impose strict discipline - I think perhaps as a way of reassuring himself that he was a "real man of the house" in a patriarchal way?
This show is so interesting on so many levels.
Be prepared to cry guys, it gets better and worse in the next 2 episodes.
Go back to episode one where Lucy says "Have I ever in all these years opened your mail"...
Oooooooooohhhhhhhh did not catch that!
🤣🤣🤣
R u not reacting to interview with a vampire @@AStoryWorthTelling
She opened skippys note pushed through the door for hawk and burned it
Hawk is such an interesting character. So flawed, but also so relatable(?).
Beyond measure... Take this words in your mind. They will have a massive impact an other time.
True
Oh my god, yes!!!
😭😭😭😭😭😭
The last episode quilt 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
The final episode will make you cry like a baby! I cried! I finally finished the book and the ending is much worse, much sadder than in the series! I feel so, so sad for these characters, specially for Tim! His final plot is devastating.
I wish we could have delve into Lucy's moment with her mother! That scene was truly poignant, especially the mother's words urging Lucy to find comfort in Hawk coming home each night reguardless of who he spends the day with. It touched on such sensitive themes - societal expectations, women's resilience in the face of infidelity, and the complex dynamics of family relationships. This short scene resonates with broader societal narratives surrounding infidelity and gender roles at the time. This entire episode gives a deeper understanding of Lucy's character and the intricate web of emotions she carries. She has known all along her husband is in love with another man and she ignores it to pick the easier role that society has written for her, the dutiful wife.
Sadly, this is still the norm in a lot of countries. I still hear young women saying this about their husband sleeping around. At the end of the day, he still comes home to me and he's a good father to our children. Because him cheating is not even an idea they can entertain. In return they continue to be the dutiful wife.
And like so many great things in the TV "adaptation" of Thomas Mallon's fine 2007 novel, the development of Lucy as a real character is entirely the work of showrunner Ron Nyswaner. Add to that the long list of characters (and subplots) he created from the ground up, including Senator Smith, Marcus, Frankie and Jerome, the lesbian couple (in the book Mary is straight) and Hawk and Lucy's son Jackson... wow!
@@treesny I certainly like it better that Mary is straight. It changes everything
Wait but that still doesn't explain to me why they didn't opt to marry so that they could protect each other 🤔
@@i.t.t. Be mindful of the societal norms of the time and place, which would have made openly acknowledging same-sex relationships within a marriage highly unconventional. I love Hawk but he is selfish and controlling in nature, as well as his reluctance to be vulnerable...would make this arrangement unlikely as he would have never told Lucy he was gay (much less tell himself). Marrying for protection would not become more "mainstream" till the 70s and certainly the 80s during the start of the AIDS crisis.
This is an amazing series definitely one of the best imo...I watched the finale last night and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed...I loved it and thnk it was very important viewing. I'm loving the lbgtq+ films and series that are coming out recently and feel they will go along way towards getting people to rethink their views...I learnt so much I didn't know but should have known whether straight or gay.....and you guys are too much...have been giggling at Alex constantly, you both do a brilliant job xx
It is indeed a brilliant series!
This is so true. I used to hate the sad endings or that queer films just routinely saw us punished, by death more often than not. With all the different types that we have now and explore us in all our dimensionality, it is possible to take this in without thinking omg not this again. This is my favourite queer-themed series and I've seen so many of them to the point that I can't find any that I haven't
3:23 literally me everytime i see tim
I think you are right when you say that the bed scene is painful. It made me feel so sad, they both love each other and all they want to is to have sex, but for different - but equal absurd to me - reasons they don’t allow themselves to do it. It’ really painful.
It‘s also bittersweet in a way, because Tim is clearly in control of how far they’ll go and Hawk respects that. Tim tries to somewhat act more „celibate“ and won’t allow himself to fall completely into Hawk’s seduction trap, even though for Hawk it would be so easy to have actual sex here, nothing‘s holding him back except for Tim‘s decision. :(
You guys believe I cannot watch the reaction video to episode 8? I can’t afford for my heart to break again. I haven’t touched the very finale since I saw it for the first time. This serie gave me such strong emotions.
I don’t think Tim is a bad role model on account of facing 12 years of jail.
The unjust motivation for the long jail sentence is to use Tim as a warning ⛔️ to discourage others.
I feel so deep for Hawk... in his experience when he is himself the people he loves die (his first boyfriend). The person he considered like a father and that he really looked up to to make some change in the world lets his son be taken to conversion therapy and shoots himself showing Hawk nobody will ever accept gay people... He's really trying his best to protect himself and the people he loves. He feels like the whole world is out there to get him. And to think that he tries so hard to lie to Lucy, he wastes so much energy trying to be something he is not for her when she's known his secret all along!!! It breaks my heart!!!! When Jackson tries to open up to him saying he thinks there's something wrong with him Hawk tries to comfort him at the best of his abilities... his dad kicked him out of the house, he's there for his son, he's trying to tell him that he loves him no matter what, that's what he would have wanted to hear from a father figure, that it didn't matter, that he was loved anyway. But Jackson needed more than that, Jackson needed his father to ask questions to be able to talk about it, he wasn't just asking for love and acceptance, he was asking for help
I have one complaint about this episode and it's that the first flashback to the “just recently married” 50s time period isn't immediately clear that it is not happening in the Tim/hawk 70s era.
There are only a couple of clues like Lucy’s hair length but its position between the scenes that surround it might make you think it's just you the morning after the previous scene since Hawk looks basically the same in both eras
I had the 'pleasure' of having two boyfriends who were like Hawk, except I didn't find out until one year from the end of our relationships - both of them! The more of the series I watched the angrier I became. When I saw the quilt with Tim's name on it I lost it.
I would like to recommend a very good film for you to watch, the name is "The Normal Heart". I don't know if you've seen it but this film is exciting and very interesting. It talks about the lives of queer people in the 80s in NY at the beginning of the AIDS crisis and talks a little more about this discovery and the struggle of these people to be seen by the government that at the time ignored the emergency situation
Beautiful performances from Matt Bomer, Mark Ruffalo, and other great gay actors. I loved the movie! Thinking about watching it again!
I doen't think Mark Ruffalo is gay. However there are certainly a goodly number of "out" gay actors in the cast, including Jonathan Groff, Joe Mantello, Stephen Spinella and BD Wong.@@albatizon6681
I CANT WAIT for you guys to watch a certain scene in the finale
Please finish your watch of Fellow Travelers. Episode 8 was a masterpiece! I keep waiting for your take.
"Beyond Measure"
I love the "Hawk, STAWP".
Our hearts might ‘skippy’ a beat this time around. Also, Hawk deserves to be disciplined.
Agreed.
Hawk is the most flawed character in this series but also I think represent most queer lives back then..it's all about survival and denial at this point..but seeing the son struggling specially with his father is so heartbreaking 😢..but it's a fact, parents don't like their kids have the same "flaws" that they have and prefer to avoid talking about it or looking at the opposite direction and convince themselves that "no we haven't passed that to them".. Lucy and the kids deserve better 😢
A great follow-up to this series (and the Thomas Mallon novel from which it sprang) is James Kirchick's "Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington." It traces the perilous course of gay men and lesbians in D.C. through the entire 20th Century, divided by the various Presidential administrations. about 600 pp of narrative, 200 pp of notes... exhaustive but not exhausting!
17:50 positive healing
Ep7 hold my beer
😝😝😝 Healing is a complex process...Hahahahaha
You should watch My Policeman ! Th trope is similar to this one in some ways and it is freaking tragic and beautiful
Now I need Alex's thoughts on the new Doctor and The Doctor calling Isaac Newton hot.
Best part of this reaction
"And little does he know......."
Update ep 7 & 8 please..
Let's cry together
I smiled when you said TIMY WIMY cause I am a huge DOCTOR WHO nerd
The end was heartbreaking😢
I can't wait for you guys to watch the last 2 episodes. Prepare your hearts.
Chicos, les escribo en español porque se me vienen a la mente algunas cosas y no se como traducirlas de la manera que quiero hacerla en español jajajja pero yo termine de ver Fellow Travelers y ver su reaccion del capitulo 6 me costó mucho porque aun me duele porque...(como lo digo) la historia de Tim y Hawk me hizo pedacitos el corazon y debo decir sinceramente, que hace mucho muuuuchooo tiempo no lloraba de una manera que me costara respirar como con el final de esta serie :( incluso no he podido re-ver escenas y apenas algunos videos edits de internet, porque me marcó tanto emocionalmente la historia, que me es dificil incluso hablarla o contarla a los demas....Es y sigue siendo super duro todo lo que ocurre con la Comunidad LGBTQ+ y todas las historias de personas que sufren actualmente y tambien sufrieron en el pasado con toda la represion y homofobia y es muy duro de ver proyectado en una serie, que ademas te involucra en una hermosa historia de amor a traves de casi 30 años...
Esta es una tremenda serie y a pesar del dolor que siento aun, estoy tan agradecida de que hace unos meses me aparecieran ustedes en youtube ya que han sido una compañia para mi y me he reido tanto tambien :D y sus recomendaciones me hicieron llegar a ver esta serie, que sinceramente, me cambio la vida.... nunca podre agradecer lo suficiente que me hayan permitido conocer esta serie y a estos increibles actores y seres humanos :)
Les escribo desde Chile, Latinoamerica y de antemano, preparense para el capitulo 7 que es una montaña rusa emocional jajajja y el ultimo que para mi, aun no supero :( abracitos y amooo sus reacciones y recomendaciones de esta y muchas series y pelis :)
Not that it matters in the larger scheme of life, but Matt Bomer did get a Golden Globe nomination for this show a few weeks ago. _Fellow Travelers_ won't be eligible for the Emmys until next year (the 24-25 season), because the cutoff date was May 31st of 2023, where the Golden Globes runs on a calendar year. The show is also nominated in the Limited Series/Movie Made for Television . The other five titles are strong, though…
I think I hated Hawk thru so much of this series because of who he is in comparison to Tim. Tim is the most earnest, compassionate, and principled man in the world, so when Hawk treats him the way he does, he comes off as EXTRA despicable
“Gay Cabin in the Woods” got me thinking…if you guys ever want to try more queer horror movies, then I would definetly reccomend and wanna hear what you think of Knock at the Cabin. It’s starring Ben Aldridge and Jonathan Groff!
Beyond Measure. How has this show totally break me. I hate Hawk huhuhu
8:08 What you say here is actually really deep. I hadn't thought about it but Skippy is a great role model to Jack, in a way that Hawk wasn't to him. I think that him going to jail doesn't take anything away from that role because he's not going for doing something wrong either. In any case, he's giving him advice about the man who is also causing him heartache and nobody is better placed for that.
You really made me think about Lucy here. The lying part. I couldn't imagine that he would ever tell her and probably thought he was being clever this whole time. I mean he fooled the polygraph, right? lol Not after what he did to her brother and as a result her father's suicide. However, we did see her telling Hawk about what she thought about homosexuality when speaking about the gayz she met in Europe. He should have told her at one point anyway because she was going to find out anyway. She wouldn't have to go and flirt with that man just to see if she still got it. She could have gone to find someone who would give her the sex life and satisfaction that she also deserved.
I wondered for a long time if she'd seen that letter before she got married. Seeing the convo she had with the women, it seems to me that she didn't. It was afterwards and she was knee deep in her fantasy world by then. I think that she was willing to turn a blind eye so long as she could keep living the life that was promised to her, including the reputation of the family (though Jackson, as perceptive as he was, saw right through them). It was when all that was threatened that she blew up. She was willing to tolerate everything so long as the appearances didn't suffer and they could still provide for the family without getting in trouble with the law to boot.
.
The question that this raises for me (especially after having finished the series) is, when was that exactly though. At what stage did Skippy write that letter and what did he do next? I keep thinking about the significance of that letter but mostly because I don't think I understand it. How would that have changed anything with Hawk. I hope your next reaction/review (or anyone, please) will help me with this.
Celibacy - for me anyway, just means that you're not having sex with someone else. Solo sex or the meeting of needs on our own is excluded. What Skippy is struggling with is to do with his religion and their version of celibacy doesn't allow masturbation, let alone what they did. Plus what do you mean there was no sin in what they did? Adultery?
I don't know if I agree that Hawk treats Skippy as a convertible in the car as he was away and came back now but it is true that all the effort they've made at staying away from each other doesn't help them in any way get over each other. Indeed, in the way they try to break the rules (like Mormon girls doing anal or something) just makes Skippy feel worse. He is so torn, it's heartbreaking. Hawk, at least is clear about what he wants and who he is. That and because he is in control of most of the actions that we see in the series (within the cage he is) and it's the others who have to suffer the consequences of his choices, he is probably suffering less... up to this episode anyway. Skippy is fighting the demon within and the repression outside, which was so well demonstrated in the only and super odd sex scene we get this episode. I didn't enjoy it much either because this wasn't based on kinky play and there was nothing gratifying abou tit. It's all just so heart-wrenching and the suffering does continue and intensifies for all involved because they really are endgame.
Thanks guys for another great reaction video.
The series is winding down and brace yourselves.
Late to this party, but I think Hawk is absolutely suffering, and emotionally more repressed than all the others even if he is trying to have both sides. This series is heartbreaking for literally every character.
I think this was the best episode of the series.
Again a suggestion to do back to back with ep 7 and 8 u will understand why when u see ep 7 and ep 8. So pls try to finish it and then continue whatever it is tat u are doing next
will do! x
There will be too many tears to speak after E8 is over. Bring the tissues.
You guys should checkout the movie "The normal heart" If you haven't already! It's an INCREDIBLE movie!!! I will worn you that you'll need boxes of tissues!
Seconded. I don't know if HBO/Max is streaming it across the pond yet, but it's definitely something to look into.
From Lucy's standpoint, she did what so many women felt they had to do in the late 50s and early 60s. Marry a man and have his children ---and as fast as possible. Locking Hawk down with a marriage and kids was her guarantee of fulfilling her destiny no matter the costs. Once married what's done is done. Carry on. Divorce would never be an option no matter what. Divorce was not as common then as it is today. She needed to seal the deal with Hawk. The clock was ticking. Finding that letter, as shocking as it was, forced her to make the split decision to burn it so that Hawk would never see it. It was the most profound decision she'd ever make in her life at that point. That was her moment to take control. The one being manipulated finally became the manipulator. It gave her what she wanted, but a price she would be paying for for the decades to come.
Well said. It was a very narrow path, women had to walk.
Absolutely! @@sinceslicedbread7422
This is a favourite comment.
Have you figured out when Skippy wrote that letter tho? I haven't and also can't grasp its significance. What would it have changed?
Skippy was a passionate person. Loving, sensitive and caring. That letter was more for his well-being than Hawk's. Skippy knew that when he wrote it. He slid it under Hawk's apartment door just before going overseas with the army. He was heading towards a new chapter in his life. Moving on. He enlisted just to break away from Hawk who had already told him of his intentions of proposing to Lucy. Skippy needed to write the letter to get Hawk out of his head. It must have felt cathartic for him to put his words on paper letting Hawk know how he was moving on. Telling Hawk in person was not an option. So writing a letter and hand-delivering it to his door was how he dealt with it. A letter like that could not be put in the mail for anyone to possibly see. Ironically, while packing up Hawk's apartment Lucy intercepted the letter and read it. It's worth noting here how she then burns the letter. She could have simply ripped it up or tossed it in the trash. But, that wasn't good enough. She had to see the letter burn in an attempt to make those words go away. Snub them out. For me, I couldn't help but appreciate the look on Skippy's face the moment Lucy told him that she had found that letter. "Read it...and then burned it". That look was priceless. It became abundantly clear to Skippy that Hawk had been played. Even Hawk, the man Skippy always saw as bulletproof was not immune to deception. And why, you might ask did Lucy feel the need to tell Skippy. She was wounded. Even after all those years, Hawk still has this man in his life. Proof that she'd never snub out those words, ever. So, she did what so many wounded people do. She wounded Skippy. As he walked away leaving her home, she "took that dagger and stabbed him in the back" metaphorically speaking. Hurt people hurt people. @@i.t.t.
@@johnnyebarrera1380 SPOILERS AHEAD
Thank you for the detailed answer and a perspective I hadn't considered. It makes a lot of sense to me what you say, especially in terms of why that letter was important to Skippy. I was kind of stuck on that it wouldn't have changed the nature of their relationship anyway.
At first I also thought that he had written the letter before he went away to Fort Dickson (or, I thought later, overseas) but the way they go back and forth in time, I had to wonder if the letter didn't come after the confession he made, when he accidentally said "i love him" to the priest (Father Lawrence?), after he'd already been in the army for awhile and decided to try something else, something meaningful. The way the letter was worded, it felt like it was just before he joined the seminary. I considered that he joined the seminary after the baby/the events we see in E8 but for him to say "I still love you", that couldn't have been just a few weeks later and also the part where he wrote "hoping to find something else maybe a deeper faith some day... to take your place" sounds like the disillusion he was already feeling in the army and fits the part where he said in 69 that Father Lawrence helped him find the faith that he had lost. But also, at the same time, I find it hard to believe that so much time had passed between that and the scene where we see Lucy is packing up Hawk's flat.
Gosh, I'm so confused. They could have made that a bit clearer. At first I couldn't even really tell the difference between 1968 and whenever it is that we had the contractor/Lucy's mum scene.
To me, by the letter scene, Hawk and Lucy were already married. Lucy was saying to her mother that they didn't need that extra expense after the mother said that she was surprised he FINALLY accepted to give up his DC flat. At the end of the day, he comes home to you because he loves you and the rest is just the meeting of needs and nothing to worry about... just like it was for her and Lucy's father. This was after he'd told the mom (before he went out to chat to the contractor lol) that Lucy had been great at decorating their place that he had renovated...
The timing of the letter isn't very important when it comes to what you say. I mean in terms of Lucy's feeling and her reaction, especially the burning bit. I am 100% with you on that. Also Skippy's reaction to the violence of her words. That whole scene is brilliant and I find it even more impactful after reading your words.
What is important to me about the timing of the letter is whether she married him after she found out that he was gay or not. I just can't imagine she'd still go ahead with it given what happened to her dad and her brother but then again, she'd had affairs in Europe and was no longer a virgin, which was a big deal back then but to the point of choosing him over other someone else. Someone of her status and class, I'm sure there was no lack of suitable prospects? Thanks if you read all that but please get me out of my misery if you have this figured out.
I’m still wondering what the son was truly struggling with. When he says “I think something is wrong with me” it seemed more sincere and self-aware than anything he’s said about how his parents both lie etc. and the drugs and stealing etc aren’t what he feels is wrong with him, but his coping mechanisms.
I have some ideas but I don’t have enough data to base them on so I won’t say
I think that the addition of Jackson to the story -- in the original novel, Hawk and Lucy only have a daughter, named Susan -- is so brilliant and heartwrenching.
I totally agree on what you’re saying about the hero and Tom, Hawk and Lucy, even though I believe I would much rather be Tom/Lucy than Hawk… I wanna live, I don’t wanna just survive.
Please please please do a recap with the top 5 or top 10 sex scenes of this series. We deserve it for Christmas!!! Congratulations for the channel. Love you beyond mesure!
I think this show does a good job of exploring how homophobia, racism, and patriarchy have affected people over the decades, and shows the intersection between those things. With respect to Lucy, you need to remember how the patriarchal system worked in all these the time periods. It was expected that men cheat on their wives because they had certain "needs" that couldn't be fulfilled by one woman alone, and women were forced to just kind of look the other way. It didn't have to do with allyship, unfortunately, it just had to do with how little women were allowed to ask for in their relationships with men. Think of Hawk as a long lost cousin to Don Draper. Lucy just had the unspoken contract many women did to not ask questions and compartmentalize their lives. Hawk, Tim and Lucy are all victims of the oppressive times they were living in. In a more progressive world, Hawk and Tim would have just decided to be together from the get go and Lucy and Hawk never would have married.
And thinking about what you were saying about Hawk treating Tim like a sportscar he takes for spin every once in awhile, it also reminds me of Don Draper and how he acted in a lot of his relationships as well. With Mad Men, it was kind of like this cocktail of existential angst, capitalism, and patriarchy that served as the backdrop for some of Don's choices and his inability to really connect with other people... for FT, it's the homophobia and toxic masculinity that makes people like Hawk feel disconnected, too busy fighting for survival to get the love they would really want from the people in their lives. They have a lot in common as characters and what they are willing to do for survival.
Never seen you both breakdown badly whilst watching a series or movie but trust me next two episodes pls be ready. You cant really move on from the next two episodes atleast for a year
Lol no healing here boys. Lucy n tim suffered more than hawk due to his survival mode .
After episode 7 and 8 I think it was pretty clear that Hawk was the man hurt most by his own actions 😥
@@Moffel83. he was haunted by his own choices. Others were affected by his choices that's y they were able to set themselves free in the end while he would remain prisoner to his guilt
Bomer and Williams have said that they believe that Hawk and Lucy genuinely loved each other. And through the years, many gay men in these situations have said they really did love their wives. After all, love and sex are not the same thing and the latter often confound the former and make people think they love someone they do not. Indeed, some of these marriages, despite the core issue, were more truly loving because there was not the sex to define the parameters of their commitments to each other. Sadly, too many of those men were also unable to resist the temptations of living their true sexual desires and that felt too much like emotional and personal betrayal to those wives.
That is actually shown very well in the movie Maestro as well which stars Bradley Cooper as Leonard Bernstein. Bernstein was gay (one of his male lovers is played by Matt Bomer in the movie) but married a woman (played by Carey Mulligan). He genuinely loved her and the movie focuses on their love story. Their kids who themselves call their father a gay man acknowledge that their parents loved each other and had a loving relationship for the most part. Hawk also loved Lucy, just not romantically and sexually. The decisions that Hawk made on the show... He was not the only man who made them. Bernstein (of the same generation as Hawk) was another one, Larry Trainor (also the same generation) on Doom Patrol (also played by Matt Bomer) was another man who chose to marry a woman and hide his homosexuality. It's horrible how common it was 😟
@@Moffel83. so glad you brought up Doom Patrol. I was also thinking about Larry Trainor and how coincidental it was that Bomer played that role. Given his real life background, it makes so much sense that he would gravitate to these roles.
OMG update pleeeeas.😢
Guys, Looking season 2 please!!!!
You know lil nas x wasn't too far off. While not as camp as his portrayal, that was the silver lining for some gays that ended up in prison back then. Yes prison is not where you ideally want to be, but for some, they were able to find their own oasis in a sense and love behind bars, or so I am told. Not caught up on the series yet but it would be interesting if they touched on this.
I need episode 8
What I am surprise is the lack of support of host says how good looking Johnathan Bailey is😍.
In light of the hate-filled souls in Heartstopper fandom who never want to see any redemption or relief from pain for Ben, I wonder if you two would think of doing a comparison between Ben Hope and Hawk? I feel they are not so different and treat those around them with a similar disregard for their pain as a result of the anguish they've each internalized.
the difference is that ben is not a main character and doesn’t deserve any more screen time. that’s not the show heartstopper is, and “hate-filled souls” is a touch dramatic
I found this on the web 😭
Hi! I'm writing to you here because I'm watching your live stream (late) and I can't find your discord server anywhere! Thanks!
Please update
1:09 nahhhhhhh :( just u wait
I appreciated the Doctor Who references 💙
Can you please react to Hollyoaks? It has a gay storyline now😊
You do not need to tone down your comments about Hawk. He is a selfish prick. He constantly hurt Tim, and Tim always saved him.
Wait the next episode 😔
please please please tell me you’re gonna be watching saltburn on here or patreon!!!! need to know what u guys think of it !!!
Sorry, guys, but I disagree with you on the character of Lucy. She has known about her husband's sexuality since before their marriage, and she still went on with that charade because she yearned for the life Hawk could give her. She even put up with her husband's affair with Andrew, their contractor, in the pursuit of that lifestyle. At some point people should bear the consequences of their choices, and out of Hawk and Tim, she is the least deserving of empathy as she had the most options. Hawk and Tim followed the two paths accessible to them, with the former marrying a woman and having childred and the latter becoming a perpetual nomad seeking some kind of security and sincerity in his life. She opted to marry Hawk not out of love or necessity but out of sheer vanity and greed.
They're all very unpleasant people.
😭
so, I don't know if I'm only one who felt this way, because it's not really addressed later in the episodes. But when Jackson says "I think there's something wrong with me.." does anyone else think that might be hinting at queerness?
I think he's more hinting at mental health struggles, but Hawk sort of stops him by saying he's fine, which...well, I'll let the guys see the remaining 2 episodes
I did consider it. I don't know what he knew about his dad though. He'd have probably tried to talk to him about it if that were the case. The addiction problem is one they also shared though and maybe they would talk about it later. I agree with @user-qu8zs7vs1x . I think he might have been trying to get the conversation started and might have felt how one does with toxic positivity. Whatever he was struggling with, that could be season 2 although I am aware that this is wishful thinking.
Really, Skippy? Afterwards is when you decide Hawk needs to leave you alone?? Do me a favor. I mean, Hawk treats u like garbage, but romping in bed with him is not the time to judge morality.
You guys should react to "Man in an Orange Shirt" from 2017...!