@@TehRealRyan Ziqo casts a lot of frost spells, so people being able to buy frost resistance gear could help his competition. So Ziqo simply made fewer frost resist rings available to them.
Well, I gotta hand it to Ziqo. He's got more passion, dedication, and commitment to the game than I've had in years, and I respect it. It sucks that the back-end of the game is held together with digital duct tape, so that hard work fell through in the test duels.
he had more passion dedication and commitment to winning 50k, i doubt its to the game...but i mean when compared to a random designer wookie, yeah ur probably right
@@AbendscheinLGN but that is only possible because hes put so much free time and effort into becoming good enough to participate in a tournament where the prize 50-100k USD.
i just dont understand why they dont test this with the wow client beforehand. you can have a local version of wow run on your pc and just assign items to you and try it out. why spend 100+hours to test something when you can just be a GM offline and try shit out in minutes...
@@youbetu18 Because they are not official clients (with official servers). Private servers have a whole slew of their own issues and the resist thing might even work differently.
All that and the Sres didn’t even work. So sad. Imagine if he knew that it wouldn’t work and he had all that time to come up with a different plan. Not sure what plan but he’s Ziqo.
Nah bro. totally streamer advantage. Ziqo / Snuts are trash players. give me their accounts and i'd wipe the floor with them with my hands behind my back and whilst blind folded! 😃
Yeah mad respect for ziqo using RMT to pay off a top guild to give him 2-3k gold and a power level boost and get carried through dungeons. Impressive stuff.
I feel like if the "become a raid boss and just beat the fkin dog to death with a stick" strat had worked, it would have become one of the biggest moments of WoW if not video game history in general. The tournament was obviously amazing and will go down in history anyway, but if this shit had worked, I think it would have been on such a different level, like Evo Moment 37 levels of notoriety. At least for WoW players. What a giant fucking shame we got robbed of this by a bug. Sadge.
Definitely would have been a historical moment, at the pinnacle of a huge duel to the death tournament. Robbed of his win by Blizzard's clown code. JUSTICE FOR ZIQO!!!
If everyone that entered the tournament got free carries/groups whenever they wanted and had unlimited gold i'd say it would have been more interesting
@@wallapee high profile tournament, you'll have a name for yourself, and will have helpers. It's the fucking same in sports, football players have coach's and people that donate money so they can focus on THE GAME. This is high level.
One of the reasons Blizzard gave for not wanting to release classic initially was that there would be a lot of bugs that would probably not get fixed and that retail was a much more polished game
@@XirevWoW This was not a bug though. Don't believe everything a streamer says. He was uninformed, and thats why he lost. If he knew how warlock worked in classic, he would have never chosen mage for a 1v1 tournament where you can use anything.
@@ninehills42 I’m responding to people saying it’s Blizzards fault this happened, but they specifically said this was going to happen when they were hesitant on releasing it. Bug or counterintuitive interaction, it’s part of what Classic is, a game that was still growing
little sad your average joe couldn't compete, even if you were as skilled, the streamer bennies were way to out of hand, everyone in the finals had thousands of G gifted to them, mats and consumables. I hope the next tounrey is a solo self found only, with a debuff that enforces SSF so we can have an actually fair tourney for everyone
Love how people always invoke this random joe who is a god at the game but can only play one hour a day. My dude all insane players have ways to gear and get what they need. The best players are the ones that have always been among the best. There's no hidden talent being kept away because streamer privilage.@@haqu123321
@@IomtuuI think what they mean is that they didn't even have a chance to compete because there were basically jobless individuals that were being boosted by multiple other characters. Nobody with normal jobs would be able to compete, let alone even try to fight in the duels
The fact that shadow res is bugged in Classic only reinforces the idea that Blizz knew what they were doing when they introduced the Warlock class. No one was going to win besides Snutz.
Yeah you barely saw anything get resisted by the lock now that you think about it. That on top of being incredibly tanky, heals and a pet that removes people buffs.. yeah warlock is broken
Resistance is not bugged, people just don't understand how it works because in 2004 no one could get under the hood. Everything discussed in the video as a "bug" is entirely working as intended and as it was back in the day. non-damaging spells get resisted extremely well, which damaging spells don't because it's not resistance its HIT. It's an attack table, much like a melee one. Spell School Resistance DOES NOT AFFECT spell damage hits. (and spell hit doesn't affect spell resistance, that's why spell pen exists.) Because some spells like Mana Burn are wonky and include a damage portion as well as what most players would call a non-damaging function, it's more a situation of what the spell was coded as, and it's clearly coded as a damaging spell. The simple fact of the matter is that dot based classes get a lot of benefit since their damage is dealt over time, since spell damage is based entirely on time. Dots have more protection because they are unrealized gains that can be removed and dispelled before their damage is dealt.
not only warlocks are strong as hell , snutz is way too good at the game its like insanely hard to win against i remember old days on retail trying to learn playing warlocks from snutz i couldn't keep up he was way too good playing affli keeping dots on 3 players while using pet to silence and fear
@@AmideusTV You don't seem to have any clue on how programming works, because that makes no sense in a programming context. Any senior architect would be heavily criticised for coming up with a model like that. What is likely happening here is that the chance of resisting and hitting a spell is calculated together. So once a dot has been successfully applied, each individual thick can at most only be partially resisted on damage. Furthermore, there's a good chance that each school of magic has its own method for calculating resistance. It's a common practice in programming to group based on a common unity, but it means each school of magic might behave a little different.
@@Rayzan1000 It's ok to admit that you are wrong and do not know what you are talking about. Word salading speculation when we KNOW how spell hit and spell resistance works doesn't make you sound smarter. Neither does making without evidence or basis the claim that "Developers would never do that" when in fact they did. Just like a developer would NEVER design something like a debuff cap that just drops a debuff off the end because the game cannot handle tracking more than 8 debuffs at one time so it just pushes it off the stack. WoW vanilla is HISTORICALLY known for shortcuts, poor programming decisions, and a lot of other issues including inconsistently applied metrics. Ultimately it's pretty simple. Spells with a damage component use spell hit to determine whether or not the spell actually lands, and they use spell resistance to determine damage dealt. For spells that do not have a damage component, spell resistance is used.
that's insane theory crafting. I'm sure most of the people that went into the tournament were thinking of mechanical play improvements. Ziqo was thinking down right to the numbers on his gear stats. set for a different class
And most that had it just dropped like a stone vs the Shadow priests, that is why they just face tanked melee with resist gear, but ran from others in normal dmg.
Trust me. Nobody is caring about mechanical play improvements in such a simple xpac like classic/tbc. Most specs are like 3 buttons. There's no mechanical skill really. Especially for r1 players competing. It's more about cheese
If you google "How do resists work in Classic WoW" it's all explained and it's not how people generally think they work in later expansions like TBC and Wrath.
Now that is dedication and that is why he is one of the best in the world in WoW PvP. I wish Snutse would make a video like this two. So people could see his journey to the final as well. I am sure he also did some of the same farming stuff as Ziqo. It was so interesting to watch and see the whole strategy unfold.
This is honestly awesome to see. This is like the superbowl to these guys. The level of prep is insane. I couldn't imagine putting in all that work only to realize the game is broken so your strat is as well.
not like, this IS a pro sport for them. this is what is meant by true min maxing that every single Blizz competitor goes through. people, like that Redditor, just dont understand the levels you have to go through just to even compete. skill is only 70% of it. you have to think about everything. when there was less resources back in the day these guys were still going to extremes and trying everything out to be the best. everything was thoroughly thought through. treid and tested and tried and tested again. everything that could be controlled, besides RNG, was.
Resistances got changed allot during earlier vanilla patches around the era that it also had effects like shadow weakness that increased damage taken based on negative resistance, before that patch most dueling warlock always played succubus trying to 1 shot people with shadowbolt that could hit upto like 10-12k sometimes.
I ran a gnome warlock in vanilla.... He had over a year of in game played time lol... Succubus was good for melee classes, the hound was where it was at for casters.... That spell lock if landed during a cast was broken AF... And then you add in howl of terror, fear and death coil and you can CC most classes while dots do the work with occasional nightfall proc 😂
I'm pretty sure it's a dot thing and not necessarily a shadow thing. I also feel like it's always been that way prior to cataclysm. If you hit max dmg on first tick of a dot, the other ticks do full dmg as well.
Shadow Resist DID work in Vanilla, I was in a guild that cleared AQ40 and there were these bosses before C'thun and one of them did shadow damage and warlocks tanked them with shadow resi gear as far as I can remember.
His time invested into farming all that gear wasn't for nothing. At least now everyone knows that it's pointless now and this strategy is completely off the table going forward.
It's stuff like this that's magic in mmos, even if it didn't work out for him. Having a super specific strategy, that requires super specific components, from some random acquisition process, for your own specific usecase always brought me the most joy. Can you do this in retail? Or is everything so streamlined now that 'off-meta' gear and components are purged from the game?
Totally agree! As a game dev myself, it's reasons like this that I do not like the idea of overly streamlining stats or classes and abilities. To me half the fun is trying something crazy and trying to "break" the game. Obviously you try to avoid something being stupidly OP, but I don't mind when something is OP in a certain niche, especially if the player has to put work in to pull it off.
Yeah this is have viable in Retail. For example, only a few players know that playing priest/paladin on controller is INSANELY good. Another is some lesser known buffs from Dragonflight, yes Dragonflight. Love this game, and it’s everything Diablo 4 shouldn’t have tried to have been.
In vanilla i did the same thing Ziqo did, except with runecloth and mageweave. The OG, very first AQ opening event. The supply turn ins were the only way to gain rep with other factions past doing all the quests. There were no cloth turn ins back then. So exalted was impossible until the AQ supply turn ins. I made bandages for hours on end and turned them in on my UD mage, from cloth i farmed on my NE hunter in BWL gear. Had a raptor mount before i could even train to ride it. Probably one of the first ever at the time. Lightnings Blade.
mana burn was like that at the time, when black temple was releasing it was really easy to acquire full shadow res gear so it was common to play it vs shadowplay and such and basically the priest would have to just burn because it would burn the mana normally. Think you can see it in a swarms video
even though I have no experience in playing WoW, I still respect Ziqo for the time he sacrificed, dedication and sheer fuckin' will in his grind despite looking he did that all for nothing due to some bug. That's a true gamer right there
It is obviously a bug. The default values for the resistors for dots will probably be 0. If the spell resists completely, it will simply not be changed. This is certainly not intended
ziqo should have won the tourney...if he knew this was a bad strat cuz of the bug he wouldnt have wasted all that time on that and would have used his time for another strat and would have won...or if this strat worked as intended he would have won blizzard screwed this guy..this dude is smart and deserved it man damn...well we know who the number 1 is
@@Accelerate55 This is a hard cope comment which fits perfectly considering you are simping for a hard counter matchup. Go ask Snutz yourself if he won against Ziqo cause he is "simply better."
@@KingJerbear considering Snutz is a professional e-sports player since he was a kid, I would argue that you are simping for Ziqo, who has at best done arenas competitively. Ziqo didn’t get a single polymorph off and got kited perfectly lol, don’t give me some nonsense shadow resistance response please. I don’t think I’m the one coping here.
I can't believe that after so many years playing WoW, Ziqo doesn't know whether dots are resisted by shadow resistance gear and tested it just for this tournament.
We all had that moment if only have X amount of this stat, we will be super op. We joked about it with our buddy, did half the math, then realize its too much work. Ziqo went for it.
This video is dripping with second hand sweat. I'm extremely impressed by this dedication (of course boosted by the prospect of a potential 50K). Extremely sad that what looks like a bug or at least a weird design decision F'd Ziqo.
In Vanilla, the dot tick was exactly like he is showing. If first didnt have a resist/partial resist the full duration doesnt have any resist. If the first has a resist, the full dot tick will have some resist.
bros. I have had horrible depression for the last 2 years. After raiding for 10 years and giving it up for being an adult.. Finding this community has been life changing. Thank you Baldie. Thank you Ziqo. And everyone who makes this community.
Sadly its working as intended, that behavior was changed only in tbc. In vanilla dot vs resistance worked in two ways: Pure DOT spells: the dot would be applied with the target resistance being applied at 1/10 of its value. So that means that resistance had really really bad effect to actually reduce damage of dot spells, since a lot of them is isntant cast and once its land its almost 100% damage for it. Then theres DoT spells that have secondary non damaging effects (Slows, Drains and etc). The resistance is fully applied to the initial hit of the spell, so if you have a lot of resistance it would actually prevent the spell from being applied to you. But once its applied, it effects is applied at 100% of the value. So you either resist that initial blast (like Immolate) and will resist and the dot will not be applied t you. Or you take the hit and get full dot and any additional effect that comes with the spell.
why would the dot check resists every tick? shouldn't it only check for the initial cast and determine if the dot lands or not? and if the initial cast doesn't land the dot shouldn't stick and do damage at all. i mean it kind of has to be a bug. i have never played a game where the dots acted like that if resisted. i mean if the dot lands unresisted it should do full damage full length of the dot timer, mean all ticks. partial resisted should make the dot break early or do less damage per tick, and if resisted fully it shouldn't even do anything. if i'm wrong please correct me.
shadow resist did actually work in classic i used it as a druid to beat warlocks and spriests in duels. era or whatever patches happened after seems to have changed things.
That is how it was back in the day. I did ALOT of pvp back in vanilla, and the saying was "DoTs dont resist". And what they meant by that was that resistance did so little vs DoTs that it wasnt worth having resist gear.
Why should every dot tick check for resistance? it seems like only the initial is fair, because of this is where the global is spend. So yea the dot is working over a long time, but if you get your frostbolt landed, you still get the full dmg for the cast right?
In vanilla/classic, DoTs only resisted 10% of what other spells would. So with capped shadow resistance you would resist shadow dots 7.5% of the time instead of 75%. Whether this is a bug or an undocumented feature is unclear...
That's not entirely accurate. Resistances work on a spectrum in Vanilla. Non damaging effects are either resisted or not. Since there's no values to affect, it's a binary of all or nothing. Silence, Fear, Shadow Weaving all fall under this category. For damaging spells it's a bit different. Since damaging spells have a value component that can be adjusted, rather than fully resisting the damage from a spell due to resistance you only resist the damage portion as a partial resist. Because a full resist of a damaging spell is a miss, NOT a resist (attack tables weren't just for melee, spells worked off the same concept too). It's why you typically resist spells from lower level enemies easier, because it's the attack table for spells doing that work NOT resistance. DOTs work off the EXACT same function as other damaging spells with one caveat. They are really, really big. The base damage and scaling of a DoT is one of the highest in the entire game, because the damage is dealt over a period of time. All spells work off this basic principle of time versus damage value, and since most dots work off the 16 second or 24 second value, they have to be WORTH the cast for that time. That said, all the game sees when you cast a dot is a single instance of a spell that does X damage. Because of this, the resistance portion of the roll is applied at dot application. You don't get a new chance at resist each time the dot deals it's damage, you only get to resist the first time it's cast on you for the full duration of the spell. (which if you think about it in terms of the resistance protecting you from the spell itself, makes a lot of sense from RP standpoint. You are resisting the spell on cast, not on damage. Once afflicted you're afflicted.) Now, because of the protections afforded to dots due to their damage being delayed the formula is also applied at a lower rate than other spells too, and resistances are less impactful against the spell. I don't believe that it's a 10% effective rate, but it is applied to the formula at a lesser rate. Essentially dots get more benefit from damaging effects due to the way the coefficient works, and less impact from resistance all because the damage is realized over time rather than all at once as a balancing tool, since everything about spells and damage is based on time.
@@AmideusTV This is an extremely long post that completely misses the point. The functioning of spell hit and the scaling of spellpower on Dots is very well understood and is not the issue here. If Dots were simply counted as a damage spell, we would see substantial partial resists, but that's not what happens. Blizzard has explicitly said that until a patch in 2017 during TBC, DoTs were only resisted at 1/10 of the normal resist rate, and that is what is screwing Ziqo here.
@matstornros7231 a fellow patch note enjoyer. Yeah everty unbalanced cheese looks intentional until the devs put out patch notes that say basically this works nothing like we intended. And players that abuse that cheese will defend it to the death.
Maybe I'm wrong, but couldn't the reason for the unchecked resists on non-resisted DoTs just be due to how DoT snapshotting worked, up until WoD (where snapshotting was removed for anything that wasn't Feral Druid bleeds with *certain* buffs)?
Its not a bug however, its working as intended. It used to be like this in vanilla too. Dots only can be resisted but when applied deal max damage. But even if his strat worked there is a major flaw. In 1 v 1 warlocks dont need shadow at all. In fact I use more fire spells then shadow spells in pvp. Immolate and searing pain can do the job just fine.
He should have won IMO. It was so close, if the gear worked he would have wiped the floor with that lock. I was wondering wtf why is his shadow res gear not making this a cake walk?
brother even he admited that he would probably still lose if it worked, he was agaisn't one of the best warlocks in the world and warlock has such a massive advantage over mage it's not even close.
That's amazing. I love this clever, niche shit you can do in classic so much. I really really hope that the next classic season takes this type of mentality into account. I wish shadow res wasn't bugged I would have looooved to see if his Melee mage had worked in the fuuuckin finals. That would have been legendary
Resis sammeln ist kein Problem. Ich stand Klassik als Tauren Tank ( TM ) bei Ragnaros mit 325 Feuerresi. ( Bergbau und Schmied als Berufe ) Hergestelltes Gear / Cromie Brust Doppel FR Schmuckstück Raggi war da dann einfach als Tank.
I don't get the part where he leveled his weapon skill aren't you automatically set at the max level as soon you're going PVP ? Or it does but not on pet ? I only played hunter on classic till p4 of TBC .. didn't have to use much brain
If this strat worked searing pain and immolate would be snutz only damage option but no drain sustain. All the drains are shadow spells. No way you do enough damage as a lock with 2 weak fire spells vs a mage
My only issue with the entire competiton was the ability to trade, the real tournament will be when its ssf. This other shit was pathetic but entertaining.
@@Shizuka0490 more so the leveling is where that matters, I truly think a lot of the people in the tournament would not have legitimately achieved 60 In their timeframe without handouts/ rmt
@@figgypudding6277 even in ssf you can get boosted its not going to change anything other than make it even harder for people who arent household names
When it worked you resisted dmg from all the ticks. However it didnt work properly for most of vanilla so im not surprised it didnt in classic either. Much has to do with limitations in the original. They just couldnt spare the process time on each tick to check resists multiple times / effect, they probably didnt even have the power/tick to calc resist even once for all the things. If you lookup the paladin that "oneshot" kazzak with infinite attacks on a single swing you can see the boss HP getting chunked over 3-4 ticks (the hps drops in stages) cause there where more attacks then the server could handle in a single tick.
I think what's is realized is the DoTs isn't a status effect considering based on its name which most DoTs is usually based on max %hp so it goes through resistances because it's attached to health pools not resistances
It's not a bug, dots check on application for the spell. Vanilla did not have a separate tracking for each instance of damage, dots were coded to be a single spell damage value spread out across the duration of the debuff and not individual instances of damage. Dots at that time did not crit because each tick was not evaluated separately. The damage is checked on application just as all other spells, and then the debuff is applied to the target based on that value. It's also the same reason snapshotting worked back in the day. Use something that gave you increased spellpower and it would be locked in for the entire duration of the dot, because everything was decided the moment you cast the spell and nothing was ever reevaluated. Also the difference between spells resisting and not resisting is also not a bug, but a function of the game. Misses always showed as a resist, but a miss and a resist are treated as different effects by the game's coding. This is why resistance works incredibly well against non-damaging debuffs and less effectively against damaging spells. They are coded to work differently.
But shouldnt it be 75% resist on all ticks then? I feel like it could be done in 2 ways only to be "fair". Either you resist 75% of the applications and it does full dmg , or you cant resist the application and it does reduced damage based on the resistance ( 75% in this case )
resist isn't a clear "75% reduction". AFAIK, and someone please correct if wrong, its the ability to reduce UP to "X amount of damage, or full resist" its not a guarantee that you'll always take 75% reduction. So on each cast of an ability it checks against your res, and gets a return value of "resist 50%" or "resist 75%" or "full resist". So, what @AmideusTV is saying is that when you cast a DoT, it gets checked and the game returns a reduction (or not) value, say 25%. Now the spell is locked in at doing 25% reduced damage over the full duration. so for easy math we say the spell does 100dmg. 100dmg - 25% is 75dmg. Now that 75 damage is going to be applied over 18 seconds. Now this doesn't mean each tick does 12.5dmg it just means the total damage dealt will equal 75. That's why we see some of the SWP ticks dealing full, and some dealing partial when Ziqo actually "resisted" it. It wasn't a "75% flat reduction on each tick" it was a flat dmg reduction on the tooltip amount being applied over x seconds.@@Daared81
You obviously did not understand what "bug" he was talking about. He was saying that if the first application of a DOT hit with full damage, meaning none of it resisted, then every tick of the DOT would continue to just roll the same damage for the continutation, INSTEAD of checking every tick for resistance. Now the reason why that is confusing, is because when the first application of the DOT tick doesn't roll full damage, meaning some of it got resisted, then the rest of the ticks of the DOT would now check resistances INDIVIDUALLY. The bug being why is the checking of resistances on damage rolls for DOT's different for whether or not the first application does full damage or not. That seems pretty buggy to me. It seems like lazy coding. Its almost like the game would check the first application for resistances and if it rolled full damage, the game would just assume you didn't have any resistance to begin with and just repeat the same damage numbers for the duration of the DOT instead of actually working as intended and still continuing to check resistances for every tick.. Now, if the game isn't supposed to work that way, and DOTs arent supposed to check resist on every tick, then why is that exact mechanic the case if the first application is resisted??? The inconsistency is what is making me think bug.
No the dot doesn't check individual resists when partially resisted. The resisted tick from the first application is applied to every subsequent tick. The resistance is applied to the entire dot, and not evaluated on each tick. That's the point.
@@RespawnRoasters Exactly. Furthermore DOTs receive less effectiveness from the resistance effect as well. It's unclear how much of it is reduced and what the specific formula is without looking all that information up, but with no justification whatsoever I am going to guess it's also being applied on the same valuation as everything else with a dot is, divided by the tick rate. So SW:P ticks 8 times over it's full 24 second duration when speced, without could give 1/8 effectiveness, or 9% reduction in damage per tick for the spell when 75% resistance is rolled. Is that a good way to do it? Who knows, vanilla devs weren't gods they made shitty decisions (hybrid tax is a lie cough) but it's pretty clear that is how they designed it.
yeah back in the day, and maybe even today, you could not trade items between horde and alliance - however, there was a neutral auction house in Booty Bay (and maybe other places) where I could auction stuff from my horde character and buy it from my alliance character. it was risky so you had to do it fast and at high price to keep others from sniping the item. But I did it several times without problems.
Lmao those idiots on Reddit complaining it was pre planned for him to win. All of the planning he did in this video was just to be able to beat Snutz , the other people wherent even in his eyes and league lmao. What a legend
Thats how it worked in classic, Fun fact it also worked that way with Channeled spells for offense. Arcane Missiles, Life Drain, DoTs/HoTs could only crit on the first tic of damage/healing but anything after the fact was uneffected. Turtle WoW patched this out and it made a ton of Classic subclasses actually viable.
Having played a lock back in the day, I am pretty sure that dot applications were resisted too. And the partial damage once the dot was applied was true too. Sucks you put in all the work and it turned out that way.
I'am almost 100% sure that this is a bug, because I recall some drama back in Vanilla between a warrior and a warlock, and they decided to battle it out, the warrior showed up in full shadow resist gear and took no dmg.
I played SL quite a bit and the one thing that can really hurt me is another warlock geared for pure dps because the hit on dots is almost impossible to resist. Some spell mechanics are like that like no matter how much resistance your felpuppy has Banish Demon will almost always hit and #$%! your day up. So the only way to look at resistance is lowering the tick but even that is pointless against a NAXX geared SM Ruin or worse even SM DS with 15% increase is a death sentence. By contrast resisting frost mages and Fire is a cake walk compared to shadow.
I implemented the same strategy and got the stygian patterns early. I power leveled tailoring in the final hours to finish my SR set. In the 3rd round, I lost a mirror match to another spriest and knew my set was scuffed. Unfortunate.
its not a bug, the resistance only works on direct-damage spells, this includes like shadow bolt, mind blast, while dots are unaffected by the resistance
Having played a shadow priest extensively throughout classic launch, before TBC release that was not the case ESPECIALLY in pvp. I ranked and remember non stop resist and no we’re not talking about the innate 1%. Dots could very well be resisted which also negated the shadow weaving. It seems that something changed. And vice versa I remember dueling warlocks w shadow res and resisting not just fears but a good majority of corruption and curse cast
I'm not going to link it but someone on Ziqo's stream today linked a Blizzard Dev (blue) post from 2007 saying that they fixed the bug where the dots were not checking resistances (in the old client).... they used the "retail" client to create Classic WoW and the bug somehow still existed..... long story short, DOTs should also do resistance checks.
If you actually watched the video he shows that if he resists the first DOT application he does a resistance check on every DOT after it but it the first check fails it never checks the following ticks for resistance
This doesn't sound like a full bug but some kind of spaghetti code. Sounds like it does 2 checks. 1 did you resist the spell - yes or no and if no then you didn't resist and it doesn't do the 2nd check; 2 if you did resist then it might be that the first is always a resist because of a lack of coding that separates onto what should be a check for each dot and the first dot tick just gets jumbled into the "you resisted" single check. So its doing 2 checks but should be at least 3 or + however many ticks each spell does. If this affects all dot spells then it's the devs being lazy and just using a single code instead of coding each spell properly.
I think the shadow resistance bug came from when they nerfed negative resists, holy resistance was also bugged and was either a flat out resist or a complete hit.
I remember when i played on a classic server in 2016 and i told people that the non coded system is making resists OP, because resiscap gave you the chance to resist the full dot by the % AND partial resists. The only source i found back then was saying: binary spell: No partial resists -> always full dmg or full resist non binary spell: always hits with hitrate, BUT can be resisted fully -> Dots get applied but ticks can be 0/25/50/75/100 % resisted. Same with Spells like mindblast & shadowbolt. So the bug for Ziqo: The partial resists are too low & full resists are never appearing-> he will NEVER reach the full 75% Damage reduction.
I remember farming shadow res gear to tank shadow damage bosses back when I played, only to work out it's useless. Then I found thunderfury procced windfury totem which procced thunderfury, creating a weird possibly infinite loop. I got hits that procced 30 times demolishing things. Then I added lifesteal to it and found that could proc em, too. As well as a proccing trinket. Entire game Nerfs were because of insane things I found and did.
Asmon seems to think these shadow resist sets are a new thing lol.. it’s def broken - this used to be banned in duels as well but it seems to not work anymore…
What? He's not surprised at the resist set, he's surprised at the amount of time and effort he went through to get it. Also, melee mage. It's like you didn't watch the video.
"Every time I saw a frost resist ring, I bought it, and deleted it." lmao
new to WoW, what does this mean?
@@TehRealRyan he was not only making sure to be geared to beat his opponents, **he was making sure they couldn't be geared to beat him** through trade
9:15 :)
@@TehRealRyan Ziqo casts a lot of frost spells, so people being able to buy frost resistance gear could help his competition. So Ziqo simply made fewer frost resist rings available to them.
@@DOSdaze thanks mate!
True classic experience. Build yourself to become a raid boss. Only to have all of it for nothing because a bug.
all of that money wasted from buying gold
@@marlowsmith615 he won 6250 dollar and mosy likely got alot of gold from supporters
@@nedbear1970 he said he did all this off stream and completely in the dark and he spent all his gold on this.
Common Blizzard
@@AngelosRitter well all the secret resistance build stuff but he still leveled and did a bunch of other shit on stream
Well, I gotta hand it to Ziqo. He's got more passion, dedication, and commitment to the game than I've had in years, and I respect it. It sucks that the back-end of the game is held together with digital duct tape, so that hard work fell through in the test duels.
Also he got the biggest gold donation.. I mean passion
he had more passion dedication and commitment to winning 50k, i doubt its to the game...but i mean when compared to a random designer wookie, yeah ur probably right
@@timf6626 Lol, you must be one of those people who think they could beat him if only you had a flask, too. GTFO XD
He was also playing for $100k USD
@@AbendscheinLGN but that is only possible because hes put so much free time and effort into becoming good enough to participate in a tournament where the prize 50-100k USD.
"Every time I saw a Frost Res ring I bought and deleted it" - Yup that's how you BE the game
This made me so sad, man. He had such an amazing plan. He's a winner in my mind.
Only a true warrior puts this much dedication into his fights gotta love it😂❤
i just dont understand why they dont test this with the wow client beforehand. you can have a local version of wow run on your pc and just assign items to you and try it out. why spend 100+hours to test something when you can just be a GM offline and try shit out in minutes...
@@youbetu18 Because they are not official clients (with official servers). Private servers have a whole slew of their own issues and the resist thing might even work differently.
All that and the Sres didn’t even work. So sad. Imagine if he knew that it wouldn’t work and he had all that time to come up with a different plan. Not sure what plan but he’s Ziqo.
@@youbetu18 that's not how that works at all
They should totally put a statue of this guy in black rock mountain holding a glimmering blue frost resist ring over the lava.
hhhh
I could swap characters with Ziqo and he still would beat me
Ziqo could turn his monitor off and still beat me
This is the respect they deserve though. Not these people saying they only won coz of gold ffs
Yup. Same thing in EVE. Player skill (and 110% effort) destroys any stat.
Nah bro. totally streamer advantage. Ziqo / Snuts are trash players. give me their accounts and i'd wipe the floor with them with my hands behind my back and whilst blind folded! 😃
@@briomhar5229 oh shit is it THE briomhar5229 ? damn, yeah you would wipe them easy. not everyone can be a briomhar5229. big fan!
LOVE THE SUPPORT FOR ZIQO
The hardcore tournament was probably the most intense QA / testing ever done to behind the scenes mechanics.
Mad respect for Ziqo dude this is impressive
Yeah mad respect for ziqo using RMT to pay off a top guild to give him 2-3k gold and a power level boost and get carried through dungeons. Impressive stuff.
@@papercutzwow i mean they said no rules when lvling so
U mad? 😂 @@papercutzwow
I feel like if the "become a raid boss and just beat the fkin dog to death with a stick" strat had worked, it would have become one of the biggest moments of WoW if not video game history in general. The tournament was obviously amazing and will go down in history anyway, but if this shit had worked, I think it would have been on such a different level, like Evo Moment 37 levels of notoriety. At least for WoW players. What a giant fucking shame we got robbed of this by a bug. Sadge.
Definitely would have been a historical moment, at the pinnacle of a huge duel to the death tournament. Robbed of his win by Blizzard's clown code. JUSTICE FOR ZIQO!!!
Chill wow is dead game for boomers ain't no way wow will ever make best world gaming moments ever again
@@nekissx8123Dead? After almost 20 years it's still in the top most played MMOs in 2023. There is literally no other that would even come close.
@bencze465 people play garbage so it doesn't matter, gaming died after the ps2
@@kirerunte1046reality disagrees 😂😂
If only I had a flask I could compete
If everyone that entered the tournament got free carries/groups whenever they wanted and had unlimited gold i'd say it would have been more interesting
@@wallapeewell, you’re wrong …
@@wallapee high profile tournament, you'll have a name for yourself, and will have helpers. It's the fucking same in sports, football players have coach's and people that donate money so they can focus on THE GAME. This is high level.
A shadow resist flask 😂
@@thedubdoctor ok champ, explain how im wrong
Thanks blizzard for robbing us of this potentially incredible fight.
Yeah, the game would be so much better without Blizzard
One of the reasons Blizzard gave for not wanting to release classic initially was that there would be a lot of bugs that would probably not get fixed and that retail was a much more polished game
@@XirevWoW This was not a bug though. Don't believe everything a streamer says. He was uninformed, and thats why he lost. If he knew how warlock worked in classic, he would have never chosen mage for a 1v1 tournament where you can use anything.
@@ninehills42 with ur absurd logic and room temperature iq take everyone should've chosen warlock
@@ninehills42 I’m responding to people saying it’s Blizzards fault this happened, but they specifically said this was going to happen when they were hesitant on releasing it. Bug or counterintuitive interaction, it’s part of what Classic is, a game that was still growing
I love the amount of sweat spilled in this tournament. Watching Ziqo’s journey was very entertaining.
little sad your average joe couldn't compete, even if you were as skilled, the streamer bennies were way to out of hand, everyone in the finals had thousands of G gifted to them, mats and consumables. I hope the next tounrey is a solo self found only, with a debuff that enforces SSF so we can have an actually fair tourney for everyone
@@haqu123321 the average joe wouldnt have won anyway do you think any random player can win Pshero Ziqo or Snutz if it was pure skill ? sure dude
I wonder why he didn't still try to sheep and melee the pet. I wonder if that would have worked. He had all the AP still.
Love how people always invoke this random joe who is a god at the game but can only play one hour a day. My dude all insane players have ways to gear and get what they need. The best players are the ones that have always been among the best. There's no hidden talent being kept away because streamer privilage.@@haqu123321
@@IomtuuI think what they mean is that they didn't even have a chance to compete because there were basically jobless individuals that were being boosted by multiple other characters. Nobody with normal jobs would be able to compete, let alone even try to fight in the duels
The fact that shadow res is bugged in Classic only reinforces the idea that Blizz knew what they were doing when they introduced the Warlock class. No one was going to win besides Snutz.
Yeah you barely saw anything get resisted by the lock now that you think about it. That on top of being incredibly tanky, heals and a pet that removes people buffs.. yeah warlock is broken
Resistance is not bugged, people just don't understand how it works because in 2004 no one could get under the hood. Everything discussed in the video as a "bug" is entirely working as intended and as it was back in the day.
non-damaging spells get resisted extremely well, which damaging spells don't because it's not resistance its HIT. It's an attack table, much like a melee one. Spell School Resistance DOES NOT AFFECT spell damage hits. (and spell hit doesn't affect spell resistance, that's why spell pen exists.)
Because some spells like Mana Burn are wonky and include a damage portion as well as what most players would call a non-damaging function, it's more a situation of what the spell was coded as, and it's clearly coded as a damaging spell.
The simple fact of the matter is that dot based classes get a lot of benefit since their damage is dealt over time, since spell damage is based entirely on time. Dots have more protection because they are unrealized gains that can be removed and dispelled before their damage is dealt.
not only warlocks are strong as hell , snutz is way too good at the game its like insanely hard to win against i remember old days on retail trying to learn playing warlocks from snutz i couldn't keep up he was way too good playing affli keeping dots on 3 players while using pet to silence and fear
@@AmideusTV You don't seem to have any clue on how programming works, because that makes no sense in a programming context. Any senior architect would be heavily criticised for coming up with a model like that.
What is likely happening here is that the chance of resisting and hitting a spell is calculated together. So once a dot has been successfully applied, each individual thick can at most only be partially resisted on damage.
Furthermore, there's a good chance that each school of magic has its own method for calculating resistance. It's a common practice in programming to group based on a common unity, but it means each school of magic might behave a little different.
@@Rayzan1000 It's ok to admit that you are wrong and do not know what you are talking about. Word salading speculation when we KNOW how spell hit and spell resistance works doesn't make you sound smarter. Neither does making without evidence or basis the claim that "Developers would never do that" when in fact they did. Just like a developer would NEVER design something like a debuff cap that just drops a debuff off the end because the game cannot handle tracking more than 8 debuffs at one time so it just pushes it off the stack.
WoW vanilla is HISTORICALLY known for shortcuts, poor programming decisions, and a lot of other issues including inconsistently applied metrics.
Ultimately it's pretty simple. Spells with a damage component use spell hit to determine whether or not the spell actually lands, and they use spell resistance to determine damage dealt. For spells that do not have a damage component, spell resistance is used.
that's insane theory crafting. I'm sure most of the people that went into the tournament were thinking of mechanical play improvements. Ziqo was thinking down right to the numbers on his gear stats. set for a different class
a lot of them were wearing resistance gear, they showed before every duel
And most that had it just dropped like a stone vs the Shadow priests, that is why they just face tanked melee with resist gear, but ran from others in normal dmg.
Trust me. Nobody is caring about mechanical play improvements in such a simple xpac like classic/tbc. Most specs are like 3 buttons. There's no mechanical skill really. Especially for r1 players competing. It's more about cheese
If you google "How do resists work in Classic WoW" it's all explained and it's not how people generally think they work in later expansions like TBC and Wrath.
tbc or later exp isnt classic, never has and never will be anything classic,
@@Elchupanibresit’s decently dated gramps
Now that is dedication and that is why he is one of the best in the world in WoW PvP. I wish Snutse would make a video like this two. So people could see his journey to the final as well. I am sure he also did some of the same farming stuff as Ziqo. It was so interesting to watch and see the whole strategy unfold.
This is honestly awesome to see. This is like the superbowl to these guys. The level of prep is insane. I couldn't imagine putting in all that work only to realize the game is broken so your strat is as well.
not like, this IS a pro sport for them. this is what is meant by true min maxing that every single Blizz competitor goes through. people, like that Redditor, just dont understand the levels you have to go through just to even compete. skill is only 70% of it. you have to think about everything. when there was less resources back in the day these guys were still going to extremes and trying everything out to be the best. everything was thoroughly thought through. treid and tested and tried and tested again. everything that could be controlled, besides RNG, was.
your comment is great, btw. nice one.
Its good that we have that guy on our humanity side. Not some evil alien side. I hope.
Blizzard and Resistances issues ... name a better combo lol
blizzard and storages
touche my friend... touche lol@@AngelosRitter
asmon and sweaty losers
Working entirely as intended. Players misunderstanding and misremembering how things worked in vanilla and blaming it on bugs, name a better combo.
Blizzard management and breast milk ....
Resistances got changed allot during earlier vanilla patches around the era that it also had effects like shadow weakness that increased damage taken based on negative resistance, before that patch most dueling warlock always played succubus trying to 1 shot people with shadowbolt that could hit upto like 10-12k sometimes.
I ran a gnome warlock in vanilla.... He had over a year of in game played time lol... Succubus was good for melee classes, the hound was where it was at for casters.... That spell lock if landed during a cast was broken AF... And then you add in howl of terror, fear and death coil and you can CC most classes while dots do the work with occasional nightfall proc 😂
I'm pretty sure it's a dot thing and not necessarily a shadow thing. I also feel like it's always been that way prior to cataclysm. If you hit max dmg on first tick of a dot, the other ticks do full dmg as well.
what a weird DoT, it's just lump dmg but delayed. Not dmg in distinct parts.
Ziqo really took notes from that paladin mak'gora duel
Pallytime is a G
It would be interesting to see if Frost resist gear also has that problem or if it actually works. Meaning Ziqo was at an even bigger disadvantage
Shadow Resist DID work in Vanilla, I was in a guild that cleared AQ40 and there were these bosses before C'thun and one of them did shadow damage and warlocks tanked them with shadow resi gear as far as I can remember.
it did in normal classic and 2019, but they fucked up in tbc, when they made some resist changes, same with rogue and cheap shot/poison
His time invested into farming all that gear wasn't for nothing. At least now everyone knows that it's pointless now and this strategy is completely off the table going forward.
"300 of nothing is still nothing" - Shadow Resistance
It's stuff like this that's magic in mmos, even if it didn't work out for him. Having a super specific strategy, that requires super specific components, from some random acquisition process, for your own specific usecase always brought me the most joy. Can you do this in retail? Or is everything so streamlined now that 'off-meta' gear and components are purged from the game?
Totally agree! As a game dev myself, it's reasons like this that I do not like the idea of overly streamlining stats or classes and abilities. To me half the fun is trying something crazy and trying to "break" the game. Obviously you try to avoid something being stupidly OP, but I don't mind when something is OP in a certain niche, especially if the player has to put work in to pull it off.
Check out old school runescape ;)
Yeah this is have viable in Retail. For example, only a few players know that playing priest/paladin on controller is INSANELY good.
Another is some lesser known buffs from Dragonflight, yes Dragonflight.
Love this game, and it’s everything Diablo 4 shouldn’t have tried to have been.
In vanilla i did the same thing Ziqo did, except with runecloth and mageweave. The OG, very first AQ opening event. The supply turn ins were the only way to gain rep with other factions past doing all the quests. There were no cloth turn ins back then. So exalted was impossible until the AQ supply turn ins. I made bandages for hours on end and turned them in on my UD mage, from cloth i farmed on my NE hunter in BWL gear. Had a raptor mount before i could even train to ride it. Probably one of the first ever at the time. Lightnings Blade.
Man I love Ziqo. Watching him get ready for the tourney was truly insane!
mana burn was like that at the time, when black temple was releasing it was really easy to acquire full shadow res gear so it was common to play it vs shadowplay and such and basically the priest would have to just burn because it would burn the mana normally. Think you can see it in a swarms video
The dot math checks out with dot math at the time. Snapshot math means it's all rolled out at the beginning and then reiterated over time.
That is the craziest amount of effort for nothing I have ever seen. Fucking brutal.
even though I have no experience in playing WoW, I still respect Ziqo for the time he sacrificed, dedication and sheer fuckin' will in his grind despite looking he did that all for nothing due to some bug.
That's a true gamer right there
Its amazing how spell resists are the most important stats in vanilla and even pros still dont know how they work
It is obviously a bug. The default values for the resistors for dots will probably be 0. If the spell resists completely, it will simply not be changed. This is certainly not intended
Does the resistance work in raid instance or BGs? I do recall certain buggs that only occured in-world but not instanced locations.
ziqo should have won the tourney...if he knew this was a bad strat cuz of the bug he wouldnt have wasted all that time on that and would have used his time for another strat and would have won...or if this strat worked as intended he would have won
blizzard screwed this guy..this dude is smart and deserved it man damn...well we know who the number 1 is
No.
He lost to Snutz in 2019, and lost to him again. This wasn’t just a “bug”. Snutz is simply better.
In some alternate universe, shadow resistance worked and they got the Finals we deserved o7
@@Accelerate55 This is a hard cope comment which fits perfectly considering you are simping for a hard counter matchup. Go ask Snutz yourself if he won against Ziqo cause he is "simply better."
@@KingJerbear considering Snutz is a professional e-sports player since he was a kid, I would argue that you are simping for Ziqo, who has at best done arenas competitively.
Ziqo didn’t get a single polymorph off and got kited perfectly lol, don’t give me some nonsense shadow resistance response please.
I don’t think I’m the one coping here.
I can't believe that after so many years playing WoW, Ziqo doesn't know whether dots are resisted by shadow resistance gear and tested it just for this tournament.
We all had that moment if only have X amount of this stat, we will be super op. We joked about it with our buddy, did half the math, then realize its too much work. Ziqo went for it.
I would really like to hear from the Devs on this.
This video is dripping with second hand sweat. I'm extremely impressed by this dedication (of course boosted by the prospect of a potential 50K).
Extremely sad that what looks like a bug or at least a weird design decision F'd Ziqo.
Ziqo is a great story teller, Don't believe me go watch his t3 story had me in tears
The application part is wrong, but the ticks not partially is right. That was TBC.
In Vanilla, the dot tick was exactly like he is showing. If first didnt have a resist/partial resist the full duration doesnt have any resist. If the first has a resist, the full dot tick will have some resist.
Makes me wonder if this was part of why they removed it. An aspect that wasn't really liked which needed a large overhaul. Just killed it instead
bros. I have had horrible depression for the last 2 years. After raiding for 10 years and giving it up for being an adult.. Finding this community has been life changing. Thank you Baldie. Thank you Ziqo. And everyone who makes this community.
Hope you’re doing good bro ❤️
Keep your head up brother! This shit will pass and you will be a gigga chad soon enough!
❤❤❤
The grin we all got when he said, "every time I saw a frost resistance ring on the Auction House I bought it and deleted it."
Oh brother
Sadly its working as intended, that behavior was changed only in tbc. In vanilla dot vs resistance worked in two ways:
Pure DOT spells: the dot would be applied with the target resistance being applied at 1/10 of its value. So that means that resistance had really really bad effect to actually reduce damage of dot spells, since a lot of them is isntant cast and once its land its almost 100% damage for it.
Then theres DoT spells that have secondary non damaging effects (Slows, Drains and etc). The resistance is fully applied to the initial hit of the spell, so if you have a lot of resistance it would actually prevent the spell from being applied to you. But once its applied, it effects is applied at 100% of the value. So you either resist that initial blast (like Immolate) and will resist and the dot will not be applied t you. Or you take the hit and get full dot and any additional effect that comes with the spell.
I wonder if we will get black rock depths raid when they raise the cap to like 50 or something
We did the same in arenas in TBC back in the days, when you could switch gear before they removed it. Was awsome vs all spriest/lock combos.
Gratz to the people in the alternate universe in which his plan worked.
why would the dot check resists every tick? shouldn't it only check for the initial cast and determine if the dot lands or not? and if the initial cast doesn't land the dot shouldn't stick and do damage at all. i mean it kind of has to be a bug. i have never played a game where the dots acted like that if resisted. i mean if the dot lands unresisted it should do full damage full length of the dot timer, mean all ticks. partial resisted should make the dot break early or do less damage per tick, and if resisted fully it shouldn't even do anything. if i'm wrong please correct me.
The best month long prep he could have done would have been leveling a Warlock.
He was probably not confident in being able to beat the best players playing a warlock
I doubt that would have been as entertaining and he is unlikely to beat snutz lock vs lock anyway.
@@mcrbelieve3923 i think he couldve beat em all even as warlock, but against snutz the issue wouldve been the same
shadow resist did actually work in classic i used it as a druid to beat warlocks and spriests in duels. era or whatever patches happened after seems to have changed things.
Are you clueless bro? Or trolling
That is how it was back in the day. I did ALOT of pvp back in vanilla, and the saying was "DoTs dont resist". And what they meant by that was that resistance did so little vs DoTs that it wasnt worth having resist gear.
@chrismcaulay7805 This exactly.
Why should every dot tick check for resistance? it seems like only the initial is fair, because of this is where the global is spend. So yea the dot is working over a long time, but if you get your frostbolt landed, you still get the full dmg for the cast right?
In vanilla/classic, DoTs only resisted 10% of what other spells would. So with capped shadow resistance you would resist shadow dots 7.5% of the time instead of 75%. Whether this is a bug or an undocumented feature is unclear...
That’s the reason why Asmongold always says Warlocks are from another planet and you can’t beat them.
That's not entirely accurate. Resistances work on a spectrum in Vanilla.
Non damaging effects are either resisted or not. Since there's no values to affect, it's a binary of all or nothing. Silence, Fear, Shadow Weaving all fall under this category.
For damaging spells it's a bit different. Since damaging spells have a value component that can be adjusted, rather than fully resisting the damage from a spell due to resistance you only resist the damage portion as a partial resist. Because a full resist of a damaging spell is a miss, NOT a resist (attack tables weren't just for melee, spells worked off the same concept too). It's why you typically resist spells from lower level enemies easier, because it's the attack table for spells doing that work NOT resistance.
DOTs work off the EXACT same function as other damaging spells with one caveat. They are really, really big. The base damage and scaling of a DoT is one of the highest in the entire game, because the damage is dealt over a period of time. All spells work off this basic principle of time versus damage value, and since most dots work off the 16 second or 24 second value, they have to be WORTH the cast for that time. That said, all the game sees when you cast a dot is a single instance of a spell that does X damage.
Because of this, the resistance portion of the roll is applied at dot application. You don't get a new chance at resist each time the dot deals it's damage, you only get to resist the first time it's cast on you for the full duration of the spell. (which if you think about it in terms of the resistance protecting you from the spell itself, makes a lot of sense from RP standpoint. You are resisting the spell on cast, not on damage. Once afflicted you're afflicted.)
Now, because of the protections afforded to dots due to their damage being delayed the formula is also applied at a lower rate than other spells too, and resistances are less impactful against the spell. I don't believe that it's a 10% effective rate, but it is applied to the formula at a lesser rate.
Essentially dots get more benefit from damaging effects due to the way the coefficient works, and less impact from resistance all because the damage is realized over time rather than all at once as a balancing tool, since everything about spells and damage is based on time.
@@AmideusTV This is an extremely long post that completely misses the point. The functioning of spell hit and the scaling of spellpower on Dots is very well understood and is not the issue here. If Dots were simply counted as a damage spell, we would see substantial partial resists, but that's not what happens. Blizzard has explicitly said that until a patch in 2017 during TBC, DoTs were only resisted at 1/10 of the normal resist rate, and that is what is screwing Ziqo here.
@@matstornros7231 thanks for the clarification
@matstornros7231 a fellow patch note enjoyer. Yeah everty unbalanced cheese looks intentional until the devs put out patch notes that say basically this works nothing like we intended.
And players that abuse that cheese will defend it to the death.
Maybe I'm wrong, but couldn't the reason for the unchecked resists on non-resisted DoTs just be due to how DoT snapshotting worked, up until WoD (where snapshotting was removed for anything that wasn't Feral Druid bleeds with *certain* buffs)?
Youll have 25% against frost res because your frost spells are direct damage. Dots are not direct damage.
Its not a bug however, its working as intended. It used to be like this in vanilla too. Dots only can be resisted but when applied deal max damage.
But even if his strat worked there is a major flaw. In 1 v 1 warlocks dont need shadow at all. In fact I use more fire spells then shadow spells in pvp. Immolate and searing pain can do the job just fine.
He should have won IMO.
It was so close, if the gear worked he would have wiped the floor with that lock. I was wondering wtf why is his shadow res gear not making this a cake walk?
Don’t discount the lock. Snutz is multi glad r1 player too lol😂
brother even he admited that he would probably still lose if it worked, he was agaisn't one of the best warlocks in the world and warlock has such a massive advantage over mage it's not even close.
That's amazing. I love this clever, niche shit you can do in classic so much. I really really hope that the next classic season takes this type of mentality into account. I wish shadow res wasn't bugged I would have looooved to see if his Melee mage had worked in the fuuuckin finals. That would have been legendary
Ziqo is an absolute nut case and I'm here for it.
Resis sammeln ist kein Problem.
Ich stand Klassik als Tauren Tank ( TM ) bei Ragnaros mit 325 Feuerresi. ( Bergbau und Schmied als Berufe ) Hergestelltes Gear / Cromie Brust Doppel FR Schmuckstück
Raggi war da dann einfach als Tank.
i never realized wow was just club penguin crossed with candy crush
I don't get the part where he leveled his weapon skill
aren't you automatically set at the max level as soon you're going PVP ?
Or it does but not on pet ?
I only played hunter on classic till p4 of TBC .. didn't have to use much brain
This is the level of gaming sweatiness I live for tbh.
If this strat worked searing pain and immolate would be snutz only damage option but no drain sustain. All the drains are shadow spells. No way you do enough damage as a lock with 2 weak fire spells vs a mage
My only issue with the entire competiton was the ability to trade, the real tournament will be when its ssf. This other shit was pathetic but entertaining.
you can still trade at 60
@@Shizuka0490 more so the leveling is where that matters, I truly think a lot of the people in the tournament would not have legitimately achieved 60 In their timeframe without handouts/ rmt
Yea, they’re all pretty garbage at the game
@@figgypudding6277 even in ssf you can get boosted its not going to change anything other than make it even harder for people who arent household names
@@denimchicken8080 so your one of the people who believe with all things equalized you can beat snutz or ziqo? xD
When it worked you resisted dmg from all the ticks. However it didnt work properly for most of vanilla so im not surprised it didnt in classic either.
Much has to do with limitations in the original. They just couldnt spare the process time on each tick to check resists multiple times / effect, they probably didnt even have the power/tick to calc resist even once for all the things.
If you lookup the paladin that "oneshot" kazzak with infinite attacks on a single swing you can see the boss HP getting chunked over 3-4 ticks (the hps drops in stages) cause there where more attacks then the server could handle in a single tick.
this is kinda inspiring. Gonna download classic and play SoD when that comes out for sure
You’re gunna be waiting forever mate
@@wadeprochaska2714 what you mean? It comes out Nov 30th bro
TF is sol
@@Accelerate55 he means sod(omite)
@@Accelerate55 I meant Season of Discovery.. for some reason I was thinkin it was called season of legacy lol
I think what's is realized is the DoTs isn't a status effect considering based on its name which most DoTs is usually based on max %hp so it goes through resistances because it's attached to health pools not resistances
So not just blizzard, but other games do the same
It's not a bug, dots check on application for the spell. Vanilla did not have a separate tracking for each instance of damage, dots were coded to be a single spell damage value spread out across the duration of the debuff and not individual instances of damage. Dots at that time did not crit because each tick was not evaluated separately. The damage is checked on application just as all other spells, and then the debuff is applied to the target based on that value.
It's also the same reason snapshotting worked back in the day. Use something that gave you increased spellpower and it would be locked in for the entire duration of the dot, because everything was decided the moment you cast the spell and nothing was ever reevaluated.
Also the difference between spells resisting and not resisting is also not a bug, but a function of the game. Misses always showed as a resist, but a miss and a resist are treated as different effects by the game's coding. This is why resistance works incredibly well against non-damaging debuffs and less effectively against damaging spells. They are coded to work differently.
But shouldnt it be 75% resist on all ticks then? I feel like it could be done in 2 ways only to be "fair". Either you resist 75% of the applications and it does full dmg , or you cant resist the application and it does reduced damage based on the resistance ( 75% in this case )
resist isn't a clear "75% reduction". AFAIK, and someone please correct if wrong, its the ability to reduce UP to "X amount of damage, or full resist" its not a guarantee that you'll always take 75% reduction. So on each cast of an ability it checks against your res, and gets a return value of "resist 50%" or "resist 75%" or "full resist". So, what @AmideusTV is saying is that when you cast a DoT, it gets checked and the game returns a reduction (or not) value, say 25%. Now the spell is locked in at doing 25% reduced damage over the full duration. so for easy math we say the spell does 100dmg. 100dmg - 25% is 75dmg. Now that 75 damage is going to be applied over 18 seconds. Now this doesn't mean each tick does 12.5dmg it just means the total damage dealt will equal 75. That's why we see some of the SWP ticks dealing full, and some dealing partial when Ziqo actually "resisted" it. It wasn't a "75% flat reduction on each tick" it was a flat dmg reduction on the tooltip amount being applied over x seconds.@@Daared81
You obviously did not understand what "bug" he was talking about. He was saying that if the first application of a DOT hit with full damage, meaning none of it resisted, then every tick of the DOT would continue to just roll the same damage for the continutation, INSTEAD of checking every tick for resistance. Now the reason why that is confusing, is because when the first application of the DOT tick doesn't roll full damage, meaning some of it got resisted, then the rest of the ticks of the DOT would now check resistances INDIVIDUALLY. The bug being why is the checking of resistances on damage rolls for DOT's different for whether or not the first application does full damage or not. That seems pretty buggy to me. It seems like lazy coding. Its almost like the game would check the first application for resistances and if it rolled full damage, the game would just assume you didn't have any resistance to begin with and just repeat the same damage numbers for the duration of the DOT instead of actually working as intended and still continuing to check resistances for every tick.. Now, if the game isn't supposed to work that way, and DOTs arent supposed to check resist on every tick, then why is that exact mechanic the case if the first application is resisted??? The inconsistency is what is making me think bug.
No the dot doesn't check individual resists when partially resisted. The resisted tick from the first application is applied to every subsequent tick. The resistance is applied to the entire dot, and not evaluated on each tick. That's the point.
@@RespawnRoasters Exactly. Furthermore DOTs receive less effectiveness from the resistance effect as well. It's unclear how much of it is reduced and what the specific formula is without looking all that information up, but with no justification whatsoever I am going to guess it's also being applied on the same valuation as everything else with a dot is, divided by the tick rate.
So SW:P ticks 8 times over it's full 24 second duration when speced, without could give 1/8 effectiveness, or 9% reduction in damage per tick for the spell when 75% resistance is rolled.
Is that a good way to do it? Who knows, vanilla devs weren't gods they made shitty decisions (hybrid tax is a lie cough) but it's pretty clear that is how they designed it.
Now I understand why resist don't work on diablo 4 they were broken from 20 years ago
yeah back in the day, and maybe even today, you could not trade items between horde and alliance - however, there was a neutral auction house in Booty Bay (and maybe other places) where I could auction stuff from my horde character and buy it from my alliance character. it was risky so you had to do it fast and at high price to keep others from sniping the item. But I did it several times without problems.
My dude almost turned into an actual shadow.
The blood, sweat, and tears I would think, go Ziqo go.
What a hero this guy is. Also being able to do this in classic was just insane
Lmao those idiots on Reddit complaining it was pre planned for him to win.
All of the planning he did in this video was just to be able to beat Snutz , the other people wherent even in his eyes and league lmao.
What a legend
Thats how it worked in classic, Fun fact it also worked that way with Channeled spells for offense. Arcane Missiles, Life Drain, DoTs/HoTs could only crit on the first tic of damage/healing but anything after the fact was uneffected.
Turtle WoW patched this out and it made a ton of Classic subclasses actually viable.
Thats crazy,ziqo is a WoW god,this guy deserves a statue ingame😂
Having played a lock back in the day, I am pretty sure that dot applications were resisted too. And the partial damage once the dot was applied was true too. Sucks you put in all the work and it turned out that way.
Now we know what system inspired Diablo 4 with resistance implementation 🤣
I'am almost 100% sure that this is a bug, because I recall some drama back in Vanilla between a warrior and a warlock, and they decided to battle it out, the warrior showed up in full shadow resist gear and took no dmg.
Ziqo earns everyones respect
I played SL quite a bit and the one thing that can really hurt me is another warlock geared for pure dps because the hit on dots is almost impossible to resist. Some spell mechanics are like that like no matter how much resistance your felpuppy has Banish Demon will almost always hit and #$%! your day up. So the only way to look at resistance is lowering the tick but even that is pointless against a NAXX geared SM Ruin or worse even SM DS with 15% increase is a death sentence. By contrast resisting frost mages and Fire is a cake walk compared to shadow.
I implemented the same strategy and got the stygian patterns early. I power leveled tailoring in the final hours to finish my SR set. In the 3rd round, I lost a mirror match to another spriest and knew my set was scuffed. Unfortunate.
he really worked for that win. good for him
Give 99.9% of players Ziqos gear and consumables, prep etc and he would still smash you into the dirt.
Yup but as in every competition, no need for 10 people to defeat you, only the 0.01 and the bag is lost
its not a bug, the resistance only works on direct-damage spells, this includes like shadow bolt, mind blast, while dots are unaffected by the resistance
Having played a shadow priest extensively throughout classic launch, before TBC release that was not the case ESPECIALLY in pvp. I ranked and remember non stop resist and no we’re not talking about the innate 1%. Dots could very well be resisted which also negated the shadow weaving. It seems that something changed. And vice versa I remember dueling warlocks w shadow res and resisting not just fears but a good majority of corruption and curse cast
I'm not going to link it but someone on Ziqo's stream today linked a Blizzard Dev (blue) post from 2007 saying that they fixed the bug where the dots were not checking resistances (in the old client).... they used the "retail" client to create Classic WoW and the bug somehow still existed..... long story short, DOTs should also do resistance checks.
If you actually watched the video he shows that if he resists the first DOT application he does a resistance check on every DOT after it but it the first check fails it never checks the following ticks for resistance
This doesn't sound like a full bug but some kind of spaghetti code. Sounds like it does 2 checks. 1 did you resist the spell - yes or no and if no then you didn't resist and it doesn't do the 2nd check; 2 if you did resist then it might be that the first is always a resist because of a lack of coding that separates onto what should be a check for each dot and the first dot tick just gets jumbled into the "you resisted" single check. So its doing 2 checks but should be at least 3 or + however many ticks each spell does. If this affects all dot spells then it's the devs being lazy and just using a single code instead of coding each spell properly.
It would have worked. if things worked as intended.
I think the shadow resistance bug came from when they nerfed negative resists, holy resistance was also bugged and was either a flat out resist or a complete hit.
Man, I only just 'liked' Ziqo. But after seeing his FireStar twitch alert. I fucking love this guy haha.
capitalsing on emey mistakes hhh
I remember when i played on a classic server in 2016 and i told people that the non coded system is making resists OP, because resiscap gave you the chance to resist the full dot by the % AND partial resists. The only source i found back then was saying:
binary spell: No partial resists -> always full dmg or full resist
non binary spell: always hits with hitrate, BUT can be resisted fully -> Dots get applied but ticks can be 0/25/50/75/100 % resisted. Same with Spells like mindblast & shadowbolt.
So the bug for Ziqo: The partial resists are too low & full resists are never appearing-> he will NEVER reach the full 75% Damage reduction.
I remember farming shadow res gear to tank shadow damage bosses back when I played, only to work out it's useless.
Then I found thunderfury procced windfury totem which procced thunderfury, creating a weird possibly infinite loop.
I got hits that procced 30 times demolishing things.
Then I added lifesteal to it and found that could proc em, too. As well as a proccing trinket.
Entire game Nerfs were because of insane things I found and did.
the only thing you did was wet your bed
@@XpVersusVista
brutal
lol
also the dot damage seems to be off, mindblast and mana burn did like 75% less damage, but dots only do like 25% less dmg
So basically what you're saying is Ziqo would've won had the game not been bugged? Ouch
It's not a bug. That's how resistance work against dots.
Asmon seems to think these shadow resist sets are a new thing lol.. it’s def broken - this used to be banned in duels as well but it seems to not work anymore…
What? He's not surprised at the resist set, he's surprised at the amount of time and effort he went through to get it. Also, melee mage.
It's like you didn't watch the video.