Could F-14, F-16 Or FA-18 Have Stopped The 1941 WWII Pearl Harbor Attack? (Naval 55) | DCS
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
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Modern US carrier group vs 1941 WWII Pearl Harbor Attack group?
ua-cam.com/video/9BWGNGgrCPI/v-deo.html
@@grimreapers thanks
A couple 1944 WWII Essex-class carrier battle groups with South Dakota-class and Iowa-class battleships for AA defense would be a match for the Pearl Harbor attack force. A modern carrier battle group would wipe them out, easily.
I’m not sure that with every modern battle group doesn’t go at least 1 fast attack submarine, too. Just one such submarine, like Los Angeles-class would probably sink every ship in the PH strike group without ever being detected…assuming they carry enough torpedoes.
But how about 6 human piloted A-4E-C Skyhawks, along with 6 AI Skyhawks, flying from the French carrier, Clemenceau, with four Fletcher-class destroyers and two Perry-class frigates, just for company?
Would only have to sink 3 carriers to foil the attack, probably.
Extended storyline…phase 1, Skyhawks strike Japanese carrier group. Phase 2, wave of carrier planes strike back at Clemenceau carrier group (depending on how many carriers were left), with A-4’s serving as air defense with AIM-9P-5 missiles. Phase 3, A-4’s launch a 2nd strike, if necessary.
One trouble might be getting the Skyhawks back aboard Clemenceau. Seems like you have to aim for the number 4 wire to avoid a bogus ramp strike and explosion. (It may not be ramp strike at all, but just high sink rate at touchdown that triggers airplane explosion…just my lack of skill. High on short final to the boat. I dive in to catch a wire and land hard, I think. Kaboom 💥.
Or, use Etendards and Super Etendards.
The Final Countdown
@@CombatWombat7.62mm When we get the A-7E and A-6E in DCS, to go along with the F-14, then we can do a proper “Final Countdown”. 😀
Can you imagine the totally demoralising effect watching these unbelievably fast jets would have on the Japanese crew?
Even if the 2000 pounder didn't sink a carrier, it would cause so much damage, that they couldn't do flight options.
Very good point sir!!! Enjoy your thumbs up!!!
Yep, this. If it sets off fuel or munitions, that's almost certainly a fatal blow.
The Akagi took a 1000 pound bomb blew up in the hangar and set off fully armed and fueled planes, which started a fire that killed it. Hiryu took four bombs, which started fires that spread to Japanese planes on the hangar deck. Kaga fared similarly due to a 1000 pound and two 500 pounders that set off avgas and 80k pounds of munitions. All were scuttled as a result.
Hey man I would just like to take a moment and say Merry Christmas thank you for all the content that you create you do a great job and I appreciate all the hours that you spend making your videos
Merry Christmas!
The Nimitz and her F-14 led strike force almost sunk the Japanese Fleet. We know this to be true because Hollywood wrote the script. "The Final Countdown."
One of my all time favorite movies.
Sad that strange cloud formation came back !
@@andrewparnell6656 right when it was getting good lol
The best carrier aviation movie ever, Dick Owens flying Victory 200
Last Christmas I gave you my heart, hence why I died...
My uncle was on the USS Nimitz when they went back in time to stop the pearl harbor attack in the movie, The Final Countdown. Of course we could have stopped the attack easily
So the F-14 launches one nuclear tipped phoenix missile at the enemy fleet. Boom. Simulation over.
Like starting a fight with nukes on the combined fleet and then ending the war with nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
In short? No, it would not work.
The AIM-54 was air to air and never carried a nuke. In addition, while a W54 MIGHT have fit it's max yield was only 1KT. To obtain a a max damage blast of 50psi it would need to detonate at 220m for a ground radius of 120m. Unless the carriers could be damaged by a 10psi pressure wave (ground radius of 300m and a burst height of 400m.)
That was tried. The nukes still need better modeling.
Nice work Cap, this is a great tutorial about not only employment of Laser guided bombs from the Hornet, but about picking up the slack when your wingmen don't know what they're doing... lol. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Merry Christmas
Complete wingman failure. And Cap was just cool about it. I'd like to think I would of too. But realistically I doubt I would
OMG LOL the best comment thus far, but right on the button!
Merry Christmas cap and Grim Reapers! love watching yall!
xx
It’s a Christmas miracle!
Cap, unless they say it different in the UK, we say “cooking with gas”
agree xx
Love your content, especially the "Could" and "What If" Series ❤
I don't know if there's any platform to simulate this sort of thing, but what I've always wondered was how Pearl Harbor would've turned out if all the AA had been manned and ready and our planes up.
The AA guns on US Navy ships were badly outdated in 1941. The best hope would've been a proper CAP trying to break up the Japanese strike force, as well as flooding the magazines on the battleships and closing all the watertight doors. We still would've gotten a black eye, but it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.
It could be done in DCS. Just render Pearl Harbour but have the US aircraft scrambled and full AA response.
Thanks GR, was good fun! Merry Christmas to you ALL
*Thank you for posting all of your videos. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!*
Lmao Classic Cap
Cap: “not sure what’s going on here, I’m always forgetting something..”
Cap: “not sure whose bomb I’m following here….not tracking, let’s go to the next one”
Cap: “this one’s tracking, direct hit - yes MY bomb worked…..guys you need to sort out your bombing”
lols x
It took me three videos to figure out what you guys are doing . . . and I love it!
I enjoyed hearing the run down of all the scenarios
I can't figure out why I love these videos, but I do. Thanks GR team!
I wouldn't say this is relatively realistic, because this is an attack of comparable size, but not in locations that match the original locations of the attacking fleets. Your scenario actually gives the Japanese an advantage of more firepower in a concentrated area to defend themselves.
Load up the F/A 18 with 9 Harpoon missiles, take out the 6 carriers, 2 Battleships and 1 heavy cruiser. Then take out the tanker with the fuel to return home with Cannon fire. Even if the Japanese planes got in the air, they would have no where to land and since they were most of the combat air craft in the Japanese navy, war is over.
Merry Christmas to you cap and all at the grim reapers hope you all have a good one and thanks again cap I now have my track ir setup and it is so much more fun with it and I don't have to keep moving my mouse so it as made DC's so much better I have the full setup thanks again
xx
This has become my new favorite channel
Hi John!
Bravo! great video! being a prior USAF 462x0 IMO you have more accurately shown that a single 2K LGB can easily take out a WWII carrier (without armored decks). If anyone doubts it, using your first drop as an example (and not giving away any secret material), a 2k bomb dropped at 22K ft altitude with an initial speed of 600MPH would have penetrating speed to kill a carrier (1250-1400 Ft/s with a wooden deck providing no resistance).
I am curious as to why the f16 was unable to properly laz, track , and destroy the targets. knowing that simba works on the 16's (as did I) I would love to hear more about what happened.
As for the face plants into the ships, who models for that anymore (kinetic energy of a 32K lb missile traveling at 1200 MPH) ;)
Personally: thanks for all your dedicated work to the possible and improbable this year...
The F16 in DCS is still an early access module as far as I know, that may explain it.
Apparently at the time Japan had no bombs that could take out US war ships, so the bombs the Japanese bombers were dropping were actually 16" battleship shells fitted with fins.
Good look at what our modern fighters can do in multi role. But also, shows how deadly those WWII fighters were.
I need to go look up your A10 attempt at this scenario.
Cap: "I'm doing it. Figure your shit out". Hahahahaha lovely
AGM-69 SRAM minimum yield (170KT) airburst at 1,100m would do the trick. (50psi pressure wave over a ground radius of ~ 850m)
EDIT: Would also have the side benefit of swatting anything in the air out of the sky out to about 1,400m radius (based on 30psi pressure wave being sufficient, 10psi was considered optimal to trash civilian areas)
I mean i feel using nukes is a bit unfair, even if it was a modern carrier fleet.
@@andrew6978 Using nukes against the Imperial Japanese is unfair!? Whaaaaaat??
@@dapwn3ritswatido Well, all of these vids would be pretty short if he just launched a nuke at the beginning is my point.
@@andrew6978 yeah but it's just fast forwarding Fat Man by about 4 years lol.
@@andrew6978 tell that to hiroshima and nagasaki
By now the Kido Butai has to be saying "WHAT DID WE DO TO DESERVE ALL THIS I!!!!!!"
I really do appreciate you guy’s content! Merry Christmas and keep up the good work! I’ll send you my gift via patreon ;)
Merry Christmas and thank you Sir!
@@grimreapers Suggestion. do a The Final Countdown what if video. Take one Nimitz air craft carrier loaded with F-14's against the Japanese naval fleet heading to Pearl Harbor.
Merry Christmas all!
xx
Dam it DCS get the subs and their torpedoes working correctly. 1 Seawolf or Virginia would have sunk all of the Japanese carriers. Fight over.
Crazy guy asking Cap to do a Wronski Feint (Harry Potter Quidditch move)
Just a quick FYI. I don't play any pc games anymore. Haven't for years, and I don't watch all of your vids, but I've stayed subbed to your channel for videos like this. Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas
Hey Cap, you could also try using GBU 15s because they had good maritime strike capabilities and it was possible to just ripple launch them due to them being Electro Optical guided thus essentially fire and forget weapons. They had I think 2000lb warhead. It could be dropped from F111, F15E as well as B52s.
Copy
Outstanding.
I like this Christmas present!
Do a Battle of Midway with F-15E's and F-16's on Midway Island, and F-35's off the USS America.
You guys should do something like the JDF against Task Force 54... basically some selection of modern aircraft vs. an evolved World War II US carrier task force. The AAA on a late war carrier task group was not to be trifled with.
Watching you plan your scenarios is my entertainment.
Thankyou Santa!!!
The Japanese would have turned back to Japan long before they got near Pearl. They would think either aliens or secret US planes destroyed their aircraft carriers. The interesting thing is that the US would have never declared war on Japan and Japan sure as hell would have been signaling their diplomatic corp to stand down. At least in my fantasy thoughts.
Would they have known their carriers were destroyed?
@@rnash999 It would have taken some time. I suspect they would have known within 12 hrs.
@@setoredan Yeah, I was thinking the aircraft would maintain radio silence and had no idea if the escorts would use the same radio frequencies to talk to them.
I almost thought you were just talking about the escorts. Would they abandon the downed pilots?
Wouldn't the japanese accuse the americans instead of attacking their force, since the japanese haven't launched any yet?
As the bombs fell onto the carriers, the jets would vanish. The altered past would change the history timeline and the present. These jets might never have been built, and if so, how could they drop the bombs. Wouldn’t this create some kind of paradox that would destroy the Universe? “ Great Scott!! Marty! You have to cancel the mission!” And that’s why they cancelled the mission in “Final Countdown”, too. 😄
Awesome!!!
We'll never know because every time we get close that damn storm pops up and brings us back. 😡
Another great video. Let me know I'd u fancy teaming up with an AV8b, I'm pretty useful with laser guided bombs. Merry Christmas cap and GR
Will be recording with Harriers on 27th.
Good effort, hope you will do this video again once you pilots get laser guidance system working. You pilots could take down 12 ships if you pilots get laser guidance system work.
One of the best
Should try P3 Orion or P8 Pegasus anti submarine and escort fighters being F14 or F18. That or go movie The Final Countdown with F14s, A6s, A7s. A 3rd scenario could be Vietnam era US carrier aircraft A4s, F4s, Skyraiders.
Totally understand this is all fictitious and on the basis of what would have happened if… but does the model of simulator you use have a morale and fear variable? As the question wouldn’t just be could the tech difference tip the result but also how the enemy react to a jet with extremely precise munitions would make them react? It’s a lot to ask I understand but when you give a number in some of your videos for “if we take out this many they couldn’t complete the task” you could also give yourself’s a slightly lower number of targets taken out but a morale deficit would turn the tide of the battle? The video’s are fun regardless but it’s just something that I’d be interested to see if the option was available to turn on 👌🏻
Merry Christmas Grim Reapers
Merry Christmas!
Dear GR gang. Merry Christmas from a fairly new fan.
Merry Christmas
In the spirit of the 'Could' series, Could a WWII Japanese Carrier strike force find and sink Bismarck and Prinz Eugen?
nice
@@grimreapers Video soon to follow...Please.
This would be the konpeki no kantai equivalent of operation ten go; Bismarck and Eugen fending off IJN planes without Luftwaffe cover
And along those lines, could the Yamato sink the Bismark?
@@RobertFalconer1967 at least the iron chancellor couldn't ammo rack the hotel
Using the final scene from Final Countdown, have the mission happen. The Nimitz's airwing vs. the first attack group of the Imp. Japanese Navy?
As soon as I came across this clip, Final Countdown was the first thing I thought of. Saw it as a kid, loved it, and have it on dvd. :)
Ships disappearing due to an enemy beyond visual range by machines never seen before would cause a mental collapse of the IJN to the point that they would never even attempt to engage.
Deleting two cities wasn't enough to make the Japanese military surrender. So I'm not sure that would do it either.
@@SilverStarHeggisist Actually, deleting the second one DID do it.
@@tommyhunter1817 it did not. The Japanese military had exactly zero intention of surrendering, and when surrender happened a number of their higher officers committed suicide rather then except surrender.
The emperor surrendered. Which the Japanese military tried mutliple times to kidnap to prevent the emperor from surrendering. Unlike the emperor the military was planning and willing to fight to the last man woman and child.
It would have caused a hasty withdrawal. The IJN was typically pretty cautious. Losing a couple ships to an undetected enemy would have been enough to limit the attacks to the western pacific.
I am surprised that the AIM-54 was not tried in AS mode here.
A U.S.Carrier commander would position the carrier group behind the Japanese carrier group and attack the Japanese just as they are launching the attack on Pearl Harbour. The Japanese would not know the direction the carrier is at. You are very good at what you do. I do not have the money to buy a gaming computer so watching plan your scenarios is my entertainment.
A supersonic Kamikaze does zero damage? How much damage does the old original prop one do? Less then zero?
Heh I see what you did there
Yep, little know fact of WW2 original prop planes actually did negative damage, slightly repairing the ships they hit.
They repair whatever they come into contact with
It actually strengthens the object it hits
Looking back at this again, it’s blindingly obvious that a flight of aircraft equipped with laser guided bombs could easily wreck the entire fleet. I don’t know the technical specs of the kit involved but I think maybe 3 hits per carrier would put them well out of action, without tweaking the stats. These didn’t have armoured decks so a huge 2k Penetrator bomb would probably plunge through the top deck, main hangar deck into the machinery and tank spaces and shred the internals, maybe also detonating ammo and fuel aboard on the hangar decks. These would become an inferno within seconds, and if the hull wasn’t somehow breached, by a bomb going through the existing hole and blowing the bottom out, these carriers would turn into a Viking funeral for their crews.
i agree the Japanese carriers of the time where very susceptible to aviation fuel fires 1 2000 lb bomb would actually do it or damn near...great post and sidewinders would go into the stacks and boilers and hurt em bad
A couple of 500lb bombs (unguided) did it at Midway.
@@thedungeondelver what I don’t know is how good GBUs are good at penetrating armour. It might be the case that one hits the deck, and goes right through the hull to the bottom of the ship before blowing up - but I guess the delay on detonation could be set. If a 2k GBU blew up just under the keel, it would have the same destructive effect as a modern torpedo and break the ship in half.
Only with maverick and Goose in the seats! OBVIOUSLY
Bro this channel is amazing thank you for the content. Best dcs channel there is.
Is the mission or miz file here somewhere? Great job!
In the genre of Could have happened: How about referencing the movie "War Games" for a cold war scenario for a bomber attack (USA on USSR, USSR on USA, USSR on EU, etc). knowing that you can't use silo based missiles (and assuming that aircraft are already in the air), it would be interesting to see simulated limited engagements of the aftermath. so anything from 1983 or earlier would qualify. Would you like to play a game????
How about Sidewinders on heat from funnel from greater distance?
Oops-shouldn't the title have "and" instead of "or"? Weren't you all fighting together? Really great videos!
Merry Christmas !
Merry Christmas
Again a modern Carrier Group would have Fast Attack Submarines 2 to three per carrier per deployment. Being prior U.S. Navy that is a fact. You have steadily left this out.
Once again, with the right loadouts and strategy, it's entirely possible. Spot 2 Hornets with full ASM packages including SLAMERs, Harpoons and 500- pounders on TERs. The Eagles will also sport AG strike packages. The Tomcats will fly top cover, bristling with Sparrows, AMRAMs and Sidewinders.
Merry Christmas cap
I have no doubt Hornets could do it, they carry an impressive bomb and AGM load, but if we're talking about primarily stopping the Imperial Navy's fighters, I'd definitely want F-14B's or D's. Their radar is insanely powerful and would have the most luck finding and tracking Zeroes, and those Phoenix missiles could kill 6 Zeroes at a time from 100 miles away, and they'd have no clue what's happening.
Have you actually checked the AIM-54 missiles record? the NAVY never once hit anything in combat with it, NEVER . . They tried to use it during Desert Storm every single missile either failed to fire and fell into the desert, or failed to track its target and again flew off into the wild blue and then dug a hole in the desert ,
Phoenix Missiles are also hugely expensive.
@@carljungblut3548 There have only been 2 launches in US Navy history.
All carriers fly into wind so closing speed should be minor degree slower closing speed - enough to give more time for manual bomb lazing?
hmm, what about the ships and aircraft on and around hawaii during rimpac are taken back in time to the day or day before ? more wondering how one sided that would probably be. or just the aircraft that are normally in hawaii
Great job 👏. Question. Is it hard to make up your own campaign?
I find it hard, but I am quite stupid.
@@grimreapers 😂 it does come out nice 👍
Maybe stupid question, but why not drop from 40k where the Zero's cannot reach and the "P51"'s have a hard time reaching?
Yes fair point.
Because the laser only works up to 25K due to a safety limitation. At high altitude there is an issue with some electrical arcing that could cause a fire and the pod cannot be jettisoned.
@@NuclearFalcon146 great point! otherwise we would drop from space. 46x2!!!
@@davidwinter3591 Rods of God
Merry Christmas everyone!
Merry Christmas
Happy Holidays. Cap can we get a "Super Cap, Super Fails" montage for New Years Eve? Not that cap is a terrible pilot, but it's just comical when Super Cap crashes because of the wackiness.
PLENTY of fail material! What I'm missing is any time to make vid :(
Merry Christmas! Idea for a video, GR to escort Santa's slay through a hostile airspace, he must not be shot down! For the sake of Christmas!
Merry Christmas
Hello Grim Reapers. I have a suggestion for a new video.
I would Love to know weather or not if flares.are modeled for damaging enemy or friendly aircraft. If birds can damage or snuff out an engine than surely a barrage of flares could be a hazard. Any thoughts? Has this been tried yet.
Thanks for all of the great videos.
Tried but no damage in game :(
What about flares on the carrier deck full of planes?
Depends on if there's enough. Modern tech or not, there's only so many missiles a plane can carry.
We could also try with Japanese equipped with tie fighters and the Death Star?
Guns sooner on lower flying carrier aircraft (and at greatest distance from AA), decreases their battle space and their speed (they’re into their climbs and slower).
Could a Seawolf submarine stop a World War II battle group
Absolutely !
As long as it's loaded with stand off weapons.
That's not even sealclubbing, that's beating the seal so it's barely conscius and then getting it into a woodchipper, tail first, inch by inch.
The Mark MK48 ADCAP has a 1k lb warhead. One will sink any ship. A Sealwolf has 8 torpedo tubes and can hold up to 50 weapons in its torpedo room. But for argument's sake, say only 35 are MK48s. The Japanese fleet that attacked PH consisted of 67 ships (6 top of the line IJN carriers + fast battleships, cruisers and destroyers, with tankers to fuel the ships). To lessen the fleet's approach to Pearl from being discovered they maintained a relatively close fleet formation. A Sealwolf could easily track each ship in that fleet. It would not take very long to identify, either visually or audibly, 35 of the most deserving ships for a Mk48. It would NOT be discovered or noticed. I would then deliver 8 torp salvos (1 each for the 6 CVs). Once verifying each CV was sinking (i.e. no torp malfunction) , it would then deliver the next 8 torp salvo at the next 8 ships. Rinse and repeat until they had no torps remaining to shoot.
For a surface ship the torp approaches the target from the deep and strikes up, under the ship. The warhead will break the back of any ship it hits. They would NOT see (or hear) it coming nor could they avoid it. The IJN fleet could do NOTHING to detect, track, damage or sink a Seawolf. It can drive faster and dive deeper than any escorting WW2 dd could deal with (even in the unlikely event of getting pinged by a WW2 sonar). It could easily sink half that fleet making it combat ineffective within hours. The only thing steaming back to Japan would be the DDs and support ships.
You have to have the stick in the dead center in the hornet to turn on baro hold in ap.
Nellis AFB. As a whole goes back in time. Learns of the ships leaving Japan and relocates to Pearl before the attack. Kind of one sided but, mixed all round aircraft. Designated air-to-air and anti-ship roles. Think you could take out the entire carrier force and attack aircraft? I love these videos.
Actually, A-6E Intruders would have been the preferred airstrike aircraft against the Imperial Japanese Navy
Man American aircraft just looks so damn sexy
How far do you have to be till a us carrier launch f18s and equal the same attitude as you
Jim Powell speaking.
All three.
There's a movie called "The Final Countdown," with Kirk Douglas (1980 flick) you might want to watch. :-)
It may be worth another revisit just to throw in some F15E Strike Eagles if possible
Will do when we have a pilotable version in game.
There is a VSN version, but urgh, I am not a fan.
@@grimreapers looking forward to it!
I wanted to say Merry Christmas to the grim reapers and to cap have a very happy and safe holiday
Merry Christmas
I'm new to dcs so I don't to if I should get the standalone version or steam version. Any say which one I should get? Also Merry Christmas
Standalone superior. Merry Christmas
@@grimreapers Thanks Keep up with the vids 👍🏽😁
This video reminds me of the movie final countdown
Would really like to see the effect torpedo nets would have.
Against bombs? Zero
"Even with Jets it's HORRENDOUSLY dangerous."
Yet, with _ONE_ F-18 armed with 2,000 lb laser guided bombs, you knocked out four Japanese carriers, the equivalent to the battle of Midway.
And you did in fifteen minutes what took three days and:
- 3 fleet carriers
- 7 heavy cruisers
- 1 light cruiser
- 15 destroyers
- 233 carrier-based aircraft
- 127 land-based aircraft
- 16 submarines
I have no doubt in my mind that with a strike _THIS_ crippling from just one aircraft, the Japanese navy would collectively soil itself. With so much loss of combat ability before they could even launch their first attack, they'd likely drop all ideas of continuing to Pearl. Losing four carriers would not only mean the loss of what was on deck, but many of those aircraft that made it into the air would have to be recovered and then abandoned due to lack of room on the surviving carriers. On top of that, the surviving crew from the doomed carriers would have to be fished out of the water and housed throughout the fleet. The fleet would be left in essentially disaster recovery mode, and be in no shape to press an attack. ESPECIALLY if they believe that MORE terrifying demon planes could come kill them at any moment.
Without the pressed attack on the base, with the carrier task force crippled before it could even engage in its first battle, the Japanese would likely go tight-lipped and not declare war on the U.S. After all, if your most significant navel force just got strung up by its toes and left out to dry so thoroughly that you fear you'll look like a madman when you report how you lost two-thirds of your most expensive assets to ONE! 'plane', would YOU commit to a declaration of war?
The North Koreans sure think that's a good idea 🤷
Saalute to All! Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
Would love to create this mission. Where can I get the mod for the Japanese Navy?
All mods: ua-cam.com/play/PL3kOAM2N1YJcbzwU5FCo0DRmCdF3owO1o.html
“Final Countdown” flashbacks here.
F-16 Viper and a F-18 F super Hornet armed with harpoon and 500 lbs snake eyes, anti runway, with CCRP hud mode for continued calculation release mode could destroy a carrier if it was placed near the munitions area.
If you do a steep dive and CCRP it . Happy boom use inertia to amplify the impact.
Did you try using the big meatball on the deck as a guide point marker.
So why did you not load out with anti ship ordnance. Harpoon and some cluster bombs could frag the beejesus.
I would like to see a squadron of real attack bombers like A4 ,A6 or A7s. A whole deck load of A4 would be interesting
Yeah how would a bunch of Asics Intruders deal? I would love to see that.
F-16 low-altitude supersonic passes just puss them off:-)
Wasn’t there a 80s sci fi movie made about this?