Hat Format - Frazier Smith &
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
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First time watching the podcast, and absolutely love it. I have a lot to say about Infernity though.
The only reason I got into HAT is that the year before, I was completely addicted to Yugioh and just going to locals everyday. So on the day of the first HAT tournament, I showed up with no deck and not knowing how to play, and I basically got leant Sehabi's deck with a 5-minute tutorial, and then I topped the tourney. The list honestly aged pretty well.
Now I am the boogeyman Infernity player that no one seems to be in tournaments. The thing is, I've played against historically strong players as well as online players, and Infernity is significantly harder to play online than it is in real life. With the modern builds of 3 Maxx C, 3 D.D. Crow main, you don't just blow them up turn 1 every time. It's actually very rare that you just completely one-shot them, so you actually have to play a grind, and then Infernity is just inferior to other decks in the grind because the gameplan is significantly more linear (Exciton).
The D.D. Crows main aren't even for Infernity because no one plays that deck. The Crows are there because they interact well with every single good deck in the format. It's just Infernity taking collateral damage.
I personally don't agree with the argument that good players don't play non-Edison formats because good Edison players play HAT (Yomero, Indicud, James, etc.) and Infernity singularity is not even close to happening. I do disagree with the general HAT community about the strength of Infernity, but maybe that's because I haven't entered online HAT formats. I still think Infernity is definitely a top 5 deck, but maybe that's because I'm influenced by my local scene and Montreal values Infernity very highly since a lot of the players were historically good and Infernity was considered the best back in the day.
I also think Soul Charge is good, but that would take too long to talk about and I already dumped a paragraph in your comment section.
EDIT: I forgot to say that HAT is in my top 5 yu-gi-oh formats. I like HAT overall and think it's a good format.
I've enjoyed seeing all the enthusiasm for HAT recently. Even if the format turns out to be pretty bad after more serious exploration, I think the process of exploring it and reaching that point is still worthwhile. I hope that this new enthusiasm for HAT doesn't turn into the sort of conflict that you mentioned, with people trying to tear down formats like Edison or Tengu to build up their own. I like to believe that all the formats can coexist and lead to an even more vibrant retro Yu-Gi-Oh scene!
Wish people would think like that, not just in yugioh but in everything in life
But as it always was people will divide and go to the extreme to shit on the other side and try to tear it down
exactly hat is a fresh change of pace from other available formats
I think it’s important to enjoy whatever you like and never hate on other formats because ultimately all we wanna do is grow the amount of people playing.
Kinda crazy. Oscar’s hat tournament was already larger than any of his Edison tournaments
I very much prefer either Fire/Water or Vegas format over HAT personally. No Hands, no Artifacts, and most importantly no Soul Charge.
big agree
This is the correct take
Hard agree
Vegas is a goated format for sure
Vegas is it
Honestly, HAT is one of my all-time favorite formats. I think u have PTSD with infernity. I dont remember it running a muck back then, it was more control oriented with your occasional sylvan and lighstworn.
Its wild that HAT is blowing up, I can't think of a single thing that HAT has over Vegas format it just seems more toxic in every way 😅(soul charge is wild)
I enjoyed HAT, but the format immediately after that included BA/shaddoll/constellar was just superior
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who doesn't look fondly back at HAT. I mean if other people do, that's great (for you). More power to you. But for me, I did not like fighting against backrow.deck or 3x soul charge.
TBF people didn't play veiler, maxx c, crow, meister to full capacity which are vital when you realise how much combo there is. People didnt because of control but like Edison, people can now optimise their sides which may affect what decks are good now
I’d like for more ppl to consider Vegas format, fire water
Bc I think what hat will develop into is soul charge + artifact engine
Getting soul charged on turn 1 is rough. It’s almost non playable
13:23 these guys are spittin man. Lots of truths said there.
One potential podcast topic could be the experience of playing against a top player in the community that you look up to. The nerves of playing against your idol can definitely impact your play
Edison is great! I'm certainly not the best player in both edison and HAT but I enjoy both for different reasons. It just sucks when buyouts and price spikes happen and stops others from trying to enjoy different formats.
Cmon Frazier you know you got some nostalgia playing Dino Rabbit
I don’t think diversity has much of anything to do with how fun a format is gameplay-wise.
BUT, I think that a format without a high level of diversity is severely limited in how mainstream it can become. You need all kinds of yugioh players in order to reach “escape velocity,” and a HUGE chunk of players just want to have fun brewing new decks or piloting their pet deck without getting stomped by tier 1.
At the top levels, Edison is a 3 to 6 deck format, but the true strength of Edison and the reason it blew up is that there are so many decks that aren’t **completely** unviable. And any new format that intends to attract new players will need to have that same quality.
I agree with that
i like every era of summing having its dedicated format
fusion - goat
synchro - edison
xyz - ig it's hat?
i like that hat is actually seeing irl play at nationals this year and now locally vs the other xyz formats that are db tournaments once a month with 12 players 😭
also even tho spiritualism is a nice counter to infernity that's a classic case of irrespective of the card's existence, that doesn't justify the nonsense infernity is capable of 😭 ARG has plenty of references
I really think Soul Charge is not as bad as people think it is. Any deck can play it and the best decks don’t even play all 3 copies. It allows some of the combo decks like Sylvan and Dragons be able to compete with the control decks.
Infernity on the other hand is a problem, but look at 2014 NAWCQ not a lot of Infernity, especially now that a lot of decks in modern HAT are maining D.D crow which really hurts Infernity.
But I guess only time will tell as the format develops.
Geeat Video!
I am one of the bigger HAT enthusiast, but I still wanna ride the Edison wave for now.
I really enjoyed the Dino rabbit Format where Rabbit was at 2, WindUp could do no Handloop and Inzektor Hornet was at 1.
Glad to know I'm not crazy. The HAT hype seemingly came out of nowhere and the buyouts, as shitty as it feels to say, might have a lot to do with the interest. I also think you're correct to assume once the format has something worth playing for the competitive players will come through with infernity and take over. Hell if it ever did last as long as Edison even average players will have played the lines enough to be decent infernity players.
Duea format, lets explore that more. Love my dante mills gooo bluuurrr
PRIO/Dragons of Legend definitely powercrept what was mainly a great era for Yugioh. Really hope people look more into Fire/Water and Vegas, because I legitimately loved those formats.
People definitely have rose-tinted glasses when looking back at HAT format.
On the surface, it seems like this diverse format, slower yet more modern Yu-Gi-Oh with XYZs and such.
In reality, Soul Charge's legacy looms heavily over that format, and the more people optimize that format, the worse it's going to get. Not to mention Maxx "C" and Vanity's Emptiness are also legal in that format. 🤮
Thank you! Like I hate to be the bearer of bad news or rain on anyone’s parade, but as someone who actually lived through this era it was not some pleasant experience. I want people to enjoy it if that’s their thing, but I also want them to be prepared for reality.
I love HAT and I’m slowly getting people at my locals to join in. I think it’s healthy for the game to have variety and it’s going to bring players into a place to explore. The trap heavy nature showcases a nuance to the game that makes the game feel different than Edison. Love to both and the game in general but I’m certainly excited to see its resurgence.
I feel like it’s an under explored format that has potential to be fun while also dynamic in a different way than Edison or GOAT. It’s also budget friendly with some decks being able to be made out of nickels and dimes.
Being priced out of modern and getting a high rarity Edison deck also getting up there, HAT gives budget boys a chance to ball out with a shiny deck without breaking the bank. I mean I got Ulti Bujin xyz fairly cheap.
HAT holds a special place in my heart because it was the format that was the genesis for UA-cam content for me. It’s nostalgic in a way that others can’t have.
Just my thoughts. Love the content!
Mermail is my favorite deck of all time, and so I will play HAT format if it’s popular. HAT and Geargia are both miserable decks to play against tho besides getting non-gamed by Sylvans and Infernity. I will say that my locals in 2014 didn’t really have anyone playing HAT, Sylvan, or Infernity so my personal experience with the format was very good.
Like someone else said tho, fire/water or Vegas format is the move actually.
Personally, I’d love to play the 2015 clown format right before all the decks for that year got the ban hammer.
I actually played this format back in the day while I didn't play edison so that is something that is naturally drawing me towards this. I feel like a lot of these buyouts are happening due to people not having most of the cards used in the format to begin with. As someone who has collected zexal cards for 10+ years now, I have found that not many people keep their zexal era stuff around unless they were explicitly using it in decks and such. One thing to be noted imo is that compared to other older formats, the sealed product isn't nearly as expensive. Some of the main sets line sets you can still buy boxes for in the $150-$200 range so if cards get too expensive, we might see product being ripped again and that would increase the supply of many of the cards used in that format.
I think it's fine more formats are growing, the beauty of retro formats is that you can play multiple, take a break from X format, then go back, etc.
HAT has been very successful in my local scene for the past 2 years. You're right that you need actual good players to play for the format to actually develop, at the moment most people on discord are not good.
Infernity is a strong deck, and so is any combo deck going 1st that opens soul charge, we'll see how the format develops.
The Gear vs Books thing you mentioned is a Gear problem in general going 2nd, be it vs books, mirror match or any combo deck.
My local is having its first HAT tournament next month. Just play testing it, I can honestly say I'm really enjoying it. Yes, Soul Charge is a problem but being able to play some of my most favorite decks of all of yugioh is worth it.
I love hat format, but also I'm a huge infernity enthusiast and side really heavily for the mirror.
I'm pretty easy, my only requirement for a format is that it has a deck I want to play.
The buyout probably had more so to do with Vegas announcing another Retro 3v3. It’s assumed Edison and Goat. So people started buying out HAT In anticipation probably
I think it's a combination of geniune interest and, as far as the higher end version of the cards go; slight market manipulation. I watched a lot of the cards naturally go up over the past month or so, but the biggest boom happened right after Legacy Retro Formats started posting duel videos IMO. It's one thing to talk about the format, but seeing people actually play it is what got people to want to get the cards. I'm just a retro YGO lover in general so I already had the icy HAT stuff but I will admittedly say; it is nice to finally use the cards and not just look at them in a binder lol.
I was playing it a lot on db recently
Hey! Frazier saw my comment about it being the same name as their video game rewave stuff! I do hope it’s something more then that of course :)
Hat invites modern players to retro formats
honestly, this
Sup guys, the buyout thing was inevitable, it’s a preemptive strike on something that has potential, so it was bound to happen. I do feel like the format has seen much change in comparison to how it was being played back in 2014. And the reason I say this is because it has been 10 years, and 10 years worth of new information and deck building and theorizing that has come about since. Applying this newfound knowledge to the format allows us to unlock the potential that we simply didn’t think about in 2014, and the same can be said about Edison format. If you take a close look at what was played in 2010, it’s not comparable to the efficiency of what is being built and played today in Edison. It’s worth a revisit as it applies modern YGO theory to older, slower formats that don’t have powerful one-of’s that completely swing the tide of the game.
While personally I do think more formats should be explored and that there's sufficient space for at least a third mainline retro format to emerge, on the other hand I do appreciate it when I see skepticism towards the validity of adopting more formats for competitive play.
At least it reinforces the fact that we're not just playing this dumb progression series where now that edison is ""over"" we all need to collectively switch to whatever is the hot "new" format even though it might not have the same technical merits as something like goat or edison.
It's important to be forward thinking but we need future-proof solutions that last, not "goat/edison is solved and stale so let's move to this other format that will never become like that".
The reason I never got back into yugioh was because I pulled up format library and saw a top 16 with 14 of them being one deck. At least in HAT and Edison there are multiple decks still topping. Sure there is a meta like every format but it’s not as bad as modern.
To be fair, Edison is very much a solved format. I play it since 2020, where Edison wasn't even a thing and I saw everything now, after 4 years Edison you come to the conclusion there is so much wrong in this format, where even bad players get rewarded. Starting from top decking these bunch of limited cards like heavy storm, brain control, mind control, DAD the list goes on, too many cards you barely can play around like absolute Zero, caius and priority JD and DAD, I'm actually done with this format and now, after almost every top player on this world at least tried Edison once. You can see blackwing is dominating, for me this is a solved format. Time to look forward to HAT and try to solve this format, because there are many things to discover.
My favorite format was during ycs long beach, especially bc it was in my hometown haha
I liked HAT format but I played infernity back then xD. I do think a lot of the decks from the format are fun to play and stand a chance to be good in their unique ways. Still love edison obviously but nice to switch it up sometimes.
I actually don’t think soul charge at 3 is that much of a problem. It makes a lot of combo decks viable like mythic rulers and mermail, it’s a lot of fun.
I’ll give you this though Frazier, infernity is definitely the deck that you don’t want to play if it’s piloted well. Because they’ll have two lavalval chain arch fiend and necromancer and you just lose
What do you think of Vegas Format (April 2014, before the release of Primal Origin and Dragons of Legend)? Same banlist as HAT, but no soul charge / hands / artifacts. Seems to have all of the diversity of HAT, without the downsides.
Hat format is so op soul charge.The late MC duffe popularized it .seharbie was to strong Konami had to band him because he won words twice with infernity . you playing loli dragon mirror I always watch that game alot
I played 1 hat format tournament, french nats 2023, and tbh on 20 players there were like 4 good players and none brought infernity. The top 4 basically was 2 cat, 1 spellbook and 1 geargia hands. Personally, I think more people played that specific format when younger (nostalgia) and SPELLBOOK BDIF
2015 format was amazing
POST DUEA
It’s very possible that other formats like hat and tengu aren’t fully developed, and once they are and skilled players are competing it will be a „bad“ format. But I still feel like official tengu and hat tournaments or even other formats would do a good deed to the community. Or similar to the 3v3. Because after all, most of the people competing there are not perfectly skilled in that format and will have a great experience playing in it.
Fuck the buyouts. Would not touch HAT with a 10 foot pole. Just feels sleazy.
Dad I have been waiting for you to do hat. Haven’t watched it yet but I really hope you like hat
oh you're in for a treat lol
Damn dawg tell us how you really feel XD brutal
I know people would hate it, but I would love for Konami to alternate time wizard tournaments. Goat, Edison, Vegas, Hat. Honestly just want to play goat on a giant scale 😅
Most people will probably flock to Mermail, hat or geargia.. those are the best decks that don’t have a million lines like infernity
I played madolche back then, similar to the list leblanc won with
You could be right about Infernity, but I'm not convinced yet. I do agree that it's a good deck and that Soul Charge creates a lot of toxic non-games though
Infernity reminds me of Dragon Turbo. It can be insanely broken at times and do well with a good player, but it has some weaknesses that make it a bit worse than the very top decks (Artifacts in this case)
Crow is actually mained for Artifacts while also being good against other decks in the format--Mermails, Dragons, Infernity, Bujins, etc.
As for your point about Geargia vs Prophecy, that's a big thing I don't like about HAT. A lot of matchups seem one-sided. For example, Geargia has a good HAT matchup but has a much harder time against a lot of the other decks. It's kinda like how GBs have some very good matchups in Edison but get stomped by other decks
Again, I could be completely wrong though
A lot of people had similar sentiment toward Dragon Turbo in the past as you do toward Infernity. When Ghostrider got 2nd at a couple major online events with the deck, people started talking about how broken and modern it is, but it's really fallenand has only gotten a few tops since.
I think Infernity could be a successful deck, but it would take a lot for it to overtake Artifacts
@@jared-DAD4GAME I agree entirely, especially with the matchups being the true main issue
Hate to see it I had a bunch of high rarity hat staples in my cart and I was like I’ll get them later now some cards are double or triple 😂😭
HAT is more skillful then edison by far cuz there’s no stupid one offs like brain/heavy/dustshoot which wins game on the spot. Don’t get me wrong i like edison but if you ask me I’d rather lose to a good infernity/sylvan/dragon player then from noob who plays bw and opens shura whirlwind or just dustshoot me on turn one or topdeck brain for win…
this is a take
I’d argue it’s all the same
You can’t tell me that sylvan opening lonefire soul charge is not a sack?
The skill is navigating the micro interactions for both formats but the power cards still exist in hat
I enjoyed hat, riiiight until ppl discovered infernity lol. Back then, a single match against infernity just sucked the life out of the entire day for me.
Thoughts on Clown Nekroz format or that 2016 PK Fire format being time wizard potential?
no thoughts on it really, I only play Edison currently
I started during hat format but i was in high school so i wasn't buying meta cards. I might dabble but watching infernity just pop off every game definitely doesn't seem fun.
Seems the Infernity take actually doesn't hold up, but I haven't had the interest to look into things until we have a db ladder tbh
What bothers me more is geargia cause it's like the only deck with a good hat matchup but it gets destroyed by a few decks, especially books as you mentioned.
how doesn't it hold up? Scott page literally just got 2nd with the deck after not touching the format for 10 years....
@@imnerdpodcast Because the hat deck has evolved in a direction where the matchup has naturally improved. You speak about the difference in player quality mattering and then mention that a strong player beat people that don't know how hat really works anyway. He would have performed with most of the top decks, I imagine. I don't think we have enough information right now, but the information we do have kind of points away from infernity.
I didn't expect it either. I was playing Infernity in that format cause people couldn't handle it back then but it seems like the prep has adjusted a bit since crow is actually just great in the format, among other reasons. We'll see what happens I guess
you're contradicting yourself. How are you going to declare that it's evolved and then also say you havent had the interest to look into things? And to the information we have right now is the biggest irl HAT tournament in recent years had Infernity come in 2nd so what are you talking about it?
@@imnerdpodcast ok apologies. I haven't gone in-depth and really started playing but I'm familiar with the topping lists and stats and stuff. Just to say I can't fact check super hard cause I haven't taken the time to actually immerse myself. That being said, I think the information out there online is probably a better sample, not that the gameplay seemed particularly high caliber anywhere I watched yet.
Mediocre gameplay is one thing, but I think there's been considerable development in deck construction at least. The artifact traptrix deck seems the most developed
As someone that plays hat I can say your fears you listed aren't really a thing. I think you're looking at infernity kind of like an outsider from Edison looks at dragon turbo. On paper it looks like a super toxic deck everyone should be playing, but in practice it gets hated out really easily so it's not actually that worth playing.
As for soul charge, soul charge is kind of needed as a comeback card but also has counter play.
So overall the gameplay of hat feels very balanced which is why I feel it's very close to Edison and I'm glad to see it's getting popular. Maybe time will tell whether you're right though I'm very curious to see.
Calling me an outsider when I literally played the format and topped multiple events with the best players in the world is actually crazy…
@@imnerdpodcast not calling you an outsider, was just making a comparison by analogy to outsiders of Edison looking at dturbo and how your opinion had the same vibe is all. I respect the fact that you played competitively during the time of the actual format. However, like with Edison, the format back then is not the same thing as the format now after people have had time to figure it out a bit more, and since you haven't played the format recently (as far as I know), I think it's fair to say you have more of an outsider's perspective now than people who play the format currently.
And, like with Edison dturbo, if a deck like infernity ever were to become widespread in hat, people would adapt and hate it out of the format, which is what is currently the case online.
Where is this dueling dojo podcast?
Also PCM or critter are very fun formats
@Meta-Foes
Vegas format is better then HAT imo as it’s the same but without soul charge, hands and artifacts.
Only thing about hat I like is hieratic ruler was I guess playable except against prophecy so yeah I don't like it
I like HAT format because of the archetypes, but I truly detest Soul Charge.
I’m definitely guilty of buying HAT cards but I targeted ulti staples for the format (breakthrough skill for example). The format is fun but I can definitely see something more degenerate come along the more it’s solved.
Edison just started getting popular in my city, so I hope it stays
It seems like people are buying the cards way more then it's being played. People might want to get ahead of the crazy prices before it becomes a real format again. Because people missed out on Goat and edison, so they are buying out the cards just incase it becomes big. It's just hype right now sadly
This was kind of jarring to listen to as someone that was buying into the HAT hype. I was having fun trying it out myself recently and was gonna buy some cards, but now I’m having second thoughts. Buying overpriced cards for what could just be infernity die roll format is a bit spooky…
I just want people to be aware of what they’re getting into lol
Everyone has on rose tinted glasses right now
BA SATELLAR SHADDOLL
WAYYY BETTTER FORMAT
I feel like people who say they enjoyed HAT format get it confused with the format that happened prior which was fire/water. I only play HAT because geargia exists in that format but if it didn’t I wouldn’t play because soul charge completely ruins the format for me.
I think the decks are cool but then you see soul charge and vanity’s and it doesn’t take much to extrapolate what degenerate things could be lying it wait.
🔥🔥🔥🔥
All hail clown format!!!
Edison best format hands down
Vegas > HAT
3 soul charge and maxx c is toxic
It’s not because it balances out the format quite well
HAT was a mediocre format and the first time I quit the game 🤷♂️
oof lol
hat format toxic