Labour's shallow victory
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
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British headlines this morning were all about the Labour Party's landslide victory in the UK general election. But take a closer look at the numbers, and there's another story under the surface. UnHerd's Political Editor Tom McTague joins Freddie Sayers to dive into the data.
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#UnHerd #Labour #KeirStarmer
Labour will be a shitshow
No they won't great to have a labour government
They will be a shit show
Will it be a worse shitshow than the one we have just had?
@@ianHolmes-up2oc Yes they will,because Starver's party is nothing but red Tories.
@@Dylan-co2clFucking hell will you shut up and acknowledge that we now have the most state educated Cabinet in history and Starmer‘s first instincts were to appoint actual experts and reforming voices to the justice, attorney, and science departments.
The reason we have such low voter turnout is because People think it is a waste of time, as whoever you vote for, you only get either Conservative or Labour.
One thing was that there used to be kind of internal diversity in the parties, i.e the Labour party had everyone from left of centre socialdemocrats to Trotskyites, similarly the Tories ranged from people like Ted Heath and Harold Macmillan to Enoch Powell.
@@Minimmalmythicist heute sind alle Kapitalisten.
Wrong..you are getting either New Labour or Conservative branded New Labour.
Only if you follow msm. We knew by social media that there was a massive turnout for Reform, but the apathetic still believed the above. The other thing that we have to change is the horrible first past the post rigging.
Also politics fatigue. The only party offering a genuine alternative are the Greens, but theyre too radical for most, or people like their positions on things like tax and housing but hate their identity politics and positions on things like self ID.
The headline should have been "FPTP throws up yet another absurdly unfair distribution of seats to votes". Time for a change of system.
Yes it is unfair, but until PR arrives labour have to play the system because they’re certainly not going to get any help from the media like the tories do. Until now the left has always been divided but now the Tory vote is being split by Reform they don’t like it, a lot of people in the Labour Party are agitating for proportional representation and I’m sure it will be part of their manifesto the next time round because until now first past the post has massively benefited the tories.
@@raymondelliott2280 You can't seriously believe the media are more pro Tory than Labour? Most people in media are exactly Labour's target voter.
@@raymondelliott2280 I think we should support keeping the First Past the Post Electoral System. But advocate for Proportional Representation for 10 additional UK wide MP seats.
"Voter Apathy Wins in a Landslide" is the real headline.
@@kaxar6954The Scottish system works quite well. FPTP for constituencies and list MSP's on your second vote.
That Harriet Harman is now being considered by the Labour Party to become the next chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) is a VERY BAD SIGN of things to come
Given her historical alliance with the Paedophile Information Exchange people should be very concerned at this news.
PIE
I did see her on ch 4/ gurumurthy election panel show... they were all gobsmacked, astounded and non -plussed that rfm were doing so well.
to be fair she did say by way of " how could this be happening", WHY r ppl voting this way?- about LEGAL immigration and it is alot, they WILL have to listen to ppl and have the conversation reduce numbers/ allow uk ppl to train... an eg she gave was a lady working in tesco she had met, bcos she couldn't afford midwife training. she sed we needed more bursaries for uk ppl wanting to train
@@CL-he4jzThere were certain parts of that election night coverage on Channel Four where she came out with the most vile and line-towing nonsense that even I, who am ecstatic about the Labour victory, started to get angry. Didn’t help that the removal of her hair dye made her look as if she’d aged like Bilbo after he gives up the One Ring.
That woman HH would not know 'Fairness of Equality' if it came and introduced itself. She is both mean and spiteful except when dealing with her own relatives who are not perfect when researching her history.
Reform has 5 now after a recount in Basildon and East Thurrock
Yess I live in east Thurrock
change is what?from sunak to him,he can't change the sanctions britain imposed on themselves,can't join brics,can't overturn the nuclear threaths,can't join the free world trading platform
Shame
Only a shame if you wanted Tories to hold it.@KickRocks-me7hh
@@mikewaite5507 Tories do hold it, just currently the light blue, free market capitalist loony kind
Starmer said he wont rejoin the EU...? But Starmer has proven multiple times that he''ll say anything at the time that he thinks people want to hear.
What politician dosen't, !!!...name one...!!!...
@@Nuts-Bolts and that's what politicians do. While the REAL levers are pushed and pulled from behind the curtains
@@jsd8981 Kemi? Rosie Duffield? Corbyn?
@@jayjaydubful Corbyn hätte den BREXIT verhindern können.
@@jsd8981 Perhaps I should have put it better. Starmer is on record saying complete opposites to what he said before on various subjects.
He doesn’t therefore appear to have any firm guiding credo, principles etc.
Well, one things certain, massive immigration.
This is true whether you vote conservative or labour.
Commooniteee. Refooogeee ❤🤗
And mass emigration of those who can afford it.
What can you expect from a communist lawyer like Starmer ? After his strange visit to communist Czechoslovakia in 1986, Starmer joined the Haldane Society of lawyers, at a time when everyone knew it was practically a cover for the british communist party, the old CPGB. A dangerous Trotskyite is our Kier.
Deport the Reform voters, to Russia or North Korea, then we will have more space for immigrants!
I don't think anyone can think it is fair and correct that Labour has 150 plus majority on a third of the vote. Also Starmer got less votes Corbyn, hardly a ringing endorsement.
Amazing, how broken this system is.
on only 21% of the vote
Barely got a higher proportion of the population to vote Labour than in 2010. A party that failed 14 years ago is back again with the same ideas against the same problems.
We've been trapped in a political time warp since 2008.
Fewer people voted overall this election
@@TreblaineThe conservatives have been conserving 2008 since they got into power. Can't blame Labour for a global recession either
'Davos over Westminster' Starmer...lovely.
Yep the bulk of the UK public here are stupid beyond my wildest dreams ..... or nightmares.
So global cooperation instead of isolationism? Good work I say
@@kingflynxi9420 Is that what you call it? Oh dear. Heard of the Barcelona Declaration, Barcelona Convention or the Barcelona Agreement? Look them up and see what that 'global cooperation' has in store for us all.
You won't be quite so happy when you see it.
No corporate technocrats usurping democratic process. Labour will pass more constitutional power on to select committees and appointed (corporate owned) consultants/experts (super lobbyists) deciding your future for you instead of where it should be decided in the commons on the floor . Like the agreegious insipid climate nonsense, which is the biggest wealth transfer croney capitalism has thus far contoured up. But get ready being allied to the Davis super sharks there will be any more.
@@kingflynxi9420 Treason, actually
It's interesting that in his constituency, Keir Starmer's majority HALVED - apparently, this has never happened before to an incoming PM
David Lammy as Foreign Secretary? Surely he’s the first to be sacked.
Lammy is really clever actually...in his own head
He might get lost on the way to work on monday.
He's described Donald Trump as a “neo-nazi-sympathizing sociopath.” That won't go down well if Trump wins.
Don't talk rubbish
I give him 3 months before he makes a major gaffe.
It is a fundamental error to believe that 'Reform took votes away from the Tories'. I was a Tory voter and if Reform hadn't been there I would not have voted at all. The Tories abandoned conservative values and left the field empty for Reform. In my opinion there is no way back for the Tory (centre left) party. It remains to be seen if Reform can occupy the centre right successfully.
A win for the uniparty is a win for the Tories.
And what have Reform PLC owned by mi/billionaires Tice + Farage ever done for anyone apart from gaslighting and disrupting political discourse and denying man made global warming causing climate chaos.
Are they offering/promising to help people insulate their homes or even rehouse them adequately the day their homes are destroyed because of floods or fire ? No, they are not. Are they offering to Invest in Renewable energy for all ? No they are not.
The only thing they're offering is HATRED towards those refugees and immigrants who have lost everything either because of Wars caused by lack of resources directly linked to Global Warming + Western Govts' lack of Development Aid these days and since the era of criminal tRump !
We all need to look at the bigger picture. #ClimateChaos is the biggest threat to mankind, our environment and the natural world.
All politicians who are willing to listen know exactly what needs to be done to diminish its advance but instead we get wars caused by Putin/Netanyahu and Western 'politicians' like Liar Johnson, Truss, Sunak, Trump, Farage, Orban, Le Pen, Modi, looking at their own navels whilst supporting these warmongerers and whilst the planet burns.
There is no planet B and no solution unless all countries work together. Cooperation and peace to reverse GW and Climate chaos.
Govts must listen to the Science. We are in 2024 after all and not in 1789 ! Huge technical advances since then but the intellect isn't keeping up as the Main stream Media insist on keeping us dummed down.
Great dialogue guys. I love how you prove it’s possible to have enlightened conversation about multiple political factions without denigrating anyone…. See BBC, it can be done 😮
BBC aren't interested in NOT denigrating anyone. You've misunderstood completely!
No, you have.
Labour won with Less than 20% of the eligible people to vote
Knowing that, did anyone vote for blue wing at all considering how hard they crashed? :D
if labour lower the age to vote to 16....FARAGE is making great inroads to the younger and so would these 16 year olds bring in the REFORM GOVERNMENT
You are saying that with 5 candidates and only 6 come out to vote. The man with 2 votes wins. Even though there are 1000 voters.
This is an attempt to deflect and misrepresents the actual Vote, why not show what the other parties each won as a % of ELIGIBLE. What is the proportion of who ACTUALLY voted, for each of the parties. There is a diffusion of votes across lots of parties, with all earning a lot less votes than Labour. This is the system that you have in the UK, this is the result.
@@John-gr5tx There are 1000 people eligible to vote who did not vote. So by default, the only votes that count were the 6 people who bothered to show up. so yes you are correct.
I predict….
-Increased immigration
-Another war
-continued high inflation particularly on food and fuel
-increased minimum wage which will contribute to inflation
-increased council tax
-reduced freedom of movement especially in cars
So, then, how and why did Labour succeed so 'resoundingly'?
Don't forget Reduced freedom of speech
Great question. In fact, THE question.
The Labour Party won 9,712,011. In 1997 (when voting population was lower in number) John Major won 9,591,085 votes in the catastrophic Conservative defeat. Therefore, this is hardly a resounding victory for the Labour Party. More a worrying indictment of our electoral system.
They won on an anti Tory protest vote .
Look out now for Davos/Wef policies to be made UK law
Could you give a brief summary in layman's terms please? I'm what you'd call politically ignorant lol
@@chickenfist1554
- You won't own anything. (Lease/subscription for everything)
- Increased invas.. er.. migration.
- Hate speech laws protecting certain groups whilst penalizing the legitimately concerned. ie. native population and the common sensical.
- Net zero = restricted travel/heavier taxes and charges eg. ULEZ (but nation wide).
- Destruction of farming.
- Privatization of NHS. (Everything sold off to basically end up a US model. Can't afford it then die.)
- Digital currency (tracking all of your accounts, expenditures etc..)
- Eat ze bugs.
The list goes on.. it's basically a dystopian nightmare should these things actually be implemented. Globalism. Control.
It is literally a ransacking of everyone's freedoms.
But if we don't do anything about it then we basically deserve it. (apart from our children of course. They don't.)
You're talking cobblers. Admit it.
Add to the fact a lot of reform voters didn't end up voting reform. They voted tactically to remove seats from Labour knowing reform couldn't win. They voted Green, conservatives and lib dems.
Next election will be huge
I don't think this is true.
@@lancevance60 a lot of reform voters said they were going to do it last minute just to get labour out. Not because they didn't support reform. There were comment sections telling people a vote for reform was a vote for labour... People need to stop tactical voting we just go round in circles...
I really don't think you are free people when I think how we had a revolutionary war to over throw the same system you live under. It's just convenient to pretend.
When I think of why "parliament" I see it as some invention to keep a kings head on his shoulders. Then as the monarch lost power, those powers transferred to a "ruling class"
When I ask one of your types why you think your free, they respond with the Magna Carta, trying to read it all I can see is it puts restrictions on the royals and does nothing for the regular guy.
Having to vote in your local riding and not being able to vote up and down the ticket only keeps the ruling class in power.
You went from one socialist government to the next socialist government, doubling down on it makes you communist now.
@@jamyDodgerConscience voting gets the Tories in every time, tactical voting just got us a massive Lib Dem progressive bloc. I’d stick to tactical voting for now.
@@dominicchallis2928 why... It's got torys and Labour in for last 44 yrs and its basically destroyed the country. We went from flourishing to looking like a 3rd world country... We lost all the things we got in return for taxes to nothing left...
Tell me how voting idiots in because they are a main party is helping us get out of this cycle? I mean Boris s? Starmer can't answer a simple question.
We welcome Keir Starmer as Prime Minister the same way we welcome a haemorrhoid.
I love right wing snowflake tears 🤣
Mister Blister haha
Roll out the red carpet/ toilet paper.
Very unfair to haemorrhoids.
Are you trying to say Starmer is an A...hole?
Puppets change, hand remains the same.
"First Past the Post" is an excellent way of racing horses, but an abysmal way of voting for representative legislatures.
I'm 42, 43 next month. I voted Reform UK. Last election I voted Lib Dem. Before that was UKIP. Before that, I voted Conservative. Before that was Labour. I am not a one party voter. I vote for what I think is the best option at the time, in what I think is the best interests of the country at the time. I will not vote again until FPTP is gone. This archaic system enforces the practice of voting for the least worst option. Any vote for a small party is essentially an irrelevant vote, a waste of time and effort. I will spoil my ballot from now on.
We need PR or some kind of legal obligation to not lie in election material.
Given the choice, I would move to an uninhabited island to live on my own. Unfortunately, there is no uninhabited land free of claim by a government/country. Maybe I could crowd fund a move to Mars! I think I'm finished with Earth.
I’d join you!
Really not looking forward to the next 5 years.
Ireland the same. I would love to move somewhere else. Don't know where !
How do you go from UKIP to the Liberal Democrats?
That's what infuriates me about Lib Dem voters.. Most are not voting FOR anything. They just don't want Labour or, this time, Tory.
Health and social care, green.
Cons wouldnt cut income taxes without la LibDems nudge
An analysis of Liberal voters of the 1970s identified three types - "core Liberals", probably the smallest group, "centrists" looking for a golden mean between Labour and Conservative, and "anti-system", people who just disliked Lab-Con system politics outright and saw the Liberals as outside that. Some parts of the "Celtic fringe" were inclined to elect Liberals when nobody else did. How much the Lib Dems of today follow this pattern is hard to say but the "centrist" thing is certainly there.
On the surface this seems similar to 1997. But Labour have 2 challenges I suspect they will not overcome that were not the case in 1997
1) They do not have a popular mandate. Yes they have a constitutional one, but they have an incredibly low vote share. This means they will get pressure from the outside immediately. They will have little (probably no) honeymoon period
2) They do not have a clear manifesto for change. Just tinkering. This means that it's a blank sheet of paper as far as many new Labour MPs are concerned.
In 1997 Blair had the flagship policies of education reform, internet roll out and the end of cronyism (and cash-for-questions) All Blair's MP's knew what they stood for and what the public expected. He could get little in the way of push back. His own party couldn't suddenly lurch in a new direction because the policies were clear and well known to all.
But Starmer does not have that. No-one knows what he stands for, even his own party. Which means the in-fighting between the extreme left and not quite so extreme left will begin immediately. Expect Starmer to be gone in this election cycle, and this election cycle to not last anything like 5 years.
Those two things may happen simultaneously, though I suspect Starmer will be replaced and possibly his successor to also go before the next election.
They also inherit a huge debt which leaves little room for their spending plans, the banks are the ones really in power.
Religious sectarianism within the party could also be a problem judging by the local elections.
You make some very good points there. I'm wondering what the Corbyn effect will be. If anything splits the Labour party it could be the Momentum factor.
Seems like very reasonable predictions to me.
By 1997 a donkey could have won over the Conservatives but you make excellent points.. there was a clear reform agenda, Blair and Brown were trusted ( * hollow laugh*) and most importantly "centrist" ie "not Michael Foot". This election I found profoundly depressing, which I suppose mirrors objective reality. And someone else on here has made the point that the Labour majority is largely due to Scotland voting against the SNP (at last).
Communication skills are essential for a successful political leader:
Margaret Thatcher, Donald Trump, JFK, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama
Those who don’t have great communication skills will fail:
Gordon Brown, William Hague, Ed Miliband, Theresa May
Rishi Sunak was like a geeky hedge funder giving a presentation to a client with his white board.
Keir Starmer was like a lawyer who would persuade you to plead guilty when you’re innocent.
Both seemed utterly clueless. That’s why Nigel Farage was such a breath of fresh air by comparison.
Also, political leaders should be honest about why the UK has declined so much (particularly outside London). My take is that globalisation and advances in tech have ruined livelihoods. 40% of British children go on to university but graduates are ten a penny. If I’m an employer & want to hire a new grad & the work can be done from home, do I take the Brit on £20K, the Hungarian who’ll take £15K or the Indian who’ll take £7K? No British graduate wants to work in retail, as a carer wiping bottoms or be a taxi driver. That’s work for foreigners. This change in world order has affected where people live in this country and whether to emigrate or not. Tech is where it’s at. That’s why King’s Cross, Battersea & Cambridge all look prosperous & shiny but the rest of the UK looks like a slum. Although working from home is common, people still need to come into the office in cities as visibility still counts as the big decisions take place in meetings held in the office & having contacts/networks ensures you’re not on the outside looking in.
We’re not the only ones in the Western world with this problem. Greece & Italy produce the highest number of law grads but there are no legal jobs there & they don’t want to be olive pickers. 70% of Portugal is empty. People emigrate to where the jobs are - either legally or illegally, usually headed to an already overcrowded western world.
In 5 years’ time, AI & robotics will have kicked in & whoever is in government will look at giving everyone UBI. Then the fun will start.
Honesty and integrity matter.
Excellent comment
In some ways Donald Trump has terrible communication skills.
Get him in a room and he'll talk over everyone else and do minimal listening to what other people say.
He also tends to lie and exaggerate as a compulsive part of his speaking.
@@lint8391 Yes I agree but he connects very well with his core audience - he talks their language. How can you tell when politicians are lying & exaggerating? Whenever they open their mouths.
This is well said.
@@veroniquendambo3242 The art of persuasion by Juliet Erickson is good for sharpening comms skills.
You don’t necessarily need more money in the NHS you need to get rid of all the private companies sucking all the money out first and then organise from there for the benefit of patients!!!!
No mention of the Muslim stanglehold Labour has to deal with. Especially in London. The capital city.
Or of the 'independent' Muslims elected.
Labour don’t care. They appealed to the Muslim vote by saying they’ll recognise Palestine as an official state.
Also in Birmingham, where Labour lost some of its seats and had its majority eroded in inner city areas to pro-Palestinian independents.
You mean the party that concocted a fake antisemitism campaign against Jeremy Corbin? Oh yes they must be Muslims. It laughable
@@evertonporter7887 Native Brits NEED TO FIGHT VERY HARD AGAINST THE MUSLIM Growth/Immigration into the Country. DO NOT ELECT THEM into city/national leadership roles. Their goal is to take over Europe one country at a time.
Anything Labour can do covertly that they said they would not do? THEY WILL DO.
Also the Prime Minister is man who was instrumental in imprisoning a journalist without charge or trial indefinitely in solitary in a cell 3 × 2mts.
When chief of the CPS he illegally allowed his correspondence with the US relating to this case to be deleted.
What on earth was Sunak's wife wearing? An alien skeleton?
I think Starmer won the wives
WWI British Navy dazzle camo
As a billionairess, she should really be able to employ a good advisor about the things she wears.
Red, white and blue - patriotic but didn't work.🤔
@@lostcause6100She's a nondom! They will move to the States to spend more time with their money.
Bank of England and IMF now runs the UK.irrespective of prime minister. Level of our debt precludes the luxury of democracy and given all western vountrues in the same mire this is being globally co-ordinated.. Ask Liz Truss. Voting = performative arts at this point in the cycle.
Yes. Much of this analysis ignores what these unelected heads of such organization will have us do.
Perhaps massively relax border control? That might sort everything out yeah?
@@kenricnarbrough8191 Can it relaxed more than it is already?
It's called Global (American) Capitalism. BoE and IMF are just facilitators for capitalists and capitalism. Of course capitalism is orchestrated on a global scale, that has been part of the objection from people at the arse end of it for years
New puppets, same agendas.
Absolutely nothing has changed.
It’s going to be a laugh a minute watching Labour minister blunders on the global stage…😂 it will be the comedy show of 2024. Comics will have a field day..❤
I believe Rishi Sunak was/is a good, highly intelligent and extremely hard-working person. But he is not a leader, and he is politically tone-deaf.
I totally agree. He has a class about him. He is respectful to even people who abuse him. However, he is not a leader. He does not have charisma. Also, he knew he was boarding on a sinking ship.
He obviously wanted to be in charge though. In a position where making all the right moves would have caused him to lose on a big scale he made a lot of wrong moves and lost on a bigger scale.
Well, he wasn't his own person really, was he?
You are a fool.
He was a chancellor who seemed to have no vision apart from making a business friendly economy
My fear is that because economic progress and public spending is so constrained Labour will go all out on Woke. The Labour revolution will be similar to the SNP and become hectoring and puritanical.
Yup. Censoring will be off the chart.
So the Greens got 4 seats and the Reformers got 4 seats it would have been nice to see how many votes both partys got
The Reform party now has 5 seats.
Reform 4 million, Greens about 2 million
20% of vote share combined and 1% of the seats
Libdems, the quiet assassins
Love him or hate him, Farage is the only party leader capable of generating any excitement at all. Starmer takes being boring to an art form.
People constantly forget decent ,good hearted people like George Galloway. 😢 Same here in Slovenia 😢
I agree even though I cannot stand Farage. Jeremy Corbyn also generated excitement amongst young people; starmer excites very few
@@anacerar6810 Decent, good-hearted people despise George Galloway.
@@o00nemesis00o and why is that? Do you know something I am unaware of? Please, give an explanation of why you feel that way. I wish you peace and good will.
Great analysis, Unherd is staying on top of it!
😂
🩵🏴🏴🏴🇬🇧🩵 5 seats well done REFORM 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I’d be interested to know how the 4 independent seats won by the Independent Muslim/Gaza coalition compares to the Reform Party seats won by number of votes cast?
Makes the case for proportional representation even more relevant.
If you want to play that game look at Sinn Fein, 7 seats for 200k votes. On that ratio Reform would get 130+ seats.
Frankly, PR will lead to a super-centrist coalition that will dominate for decades.
@@AnonymousBoschyes indeed the whole voting game in the UK is a nightmare. The voting system set up in the UK is open to manipulation by the government in power who gets to dictate the constituencies boundaries. The same three parties get to control the electorate, so it looks like a choice.
I don’t know if I like the two party system in the US either. Tactical voting by the public is now an art well known, open to manipulation.
As for Proportional Representation, it has its faults, less stable governments etc. However at least the politicians keep their eye on what the electorate thinks and needs. We all now that much of Europe do what they want behind the backs of the voters. Setting up quango’s and obscure committees that supposedly take the flack instead of government.
Labour, with their massive majority, will follow this practice and move democracy further away from the electorate. By the next election we won’t have anyone to blame and our rights in a democracy will be non existent. Dr David Starkey has spoken about this issue recently.
@@queenie1949of course, this is exactly what Blair did, used power to hang on to power and make MORE power...and he ensured his friends would head up the qwangos and ngos and committees that took power out of Westminster.
look out for more constitutional change / lawfare, hard to reverse.
Reform understand this and want to do alot of REPEALING.
I have no idea who Freddie supports. The hallmark of a good journalist/commentator.
He’s a lefty.
He clearly has bought the 'Russia Bad' narrative (From earlierposts), which suggests he's a little more establishment than he appears - still like the show though.
@@paulmcgreevy3011 No he isn't!!
@@zumamaya2396 i agree. We all have our blind spots. That is his.
What is really happening is that trad Labour voters, like myself, will not vote for a Tory leader of the Labour Party.
One thing i would worry about with Labour is if they go down the PFI route to stimulate the economy and we end up with another big black hole on that again.
We’re already in a black hole. The UK’s public finances are a disaster and neither main party wants to talk about it, hence both manifestos were essentially more of the same:
PFI/PPP was the biggest con ever perpetrated on the tax payer. Largely implemented by Labour.
Superb discussion. I wish the BBC was like this. But then again, you are the new BBC.
Landslide is not a word I would use when you delve into the figures / numbers and meaning. If only 1:5 people voted Labour then that's not an overwhelming mandate to take over. What was indicated though is change is needed to make Britain Great again..
The people who didn't vote at all are happy for the people who did vote to decide what goes on
@@kingflynxi9420 Strangely the remainers never applied that to the referendum vote.
@ChristineRead-ck1uq I'm a remainer, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I think remainers were more upset by the fact the leavers spun up a narrative and lied about the effects of brexit tbf.
Lol!
4 out of 5 adults did not vote for them and yet they represent 2 out of 3 in parliament - how does that make sense?
If you're not good with fractions I will state fractions with the same bottom number. Only 3 out of 15 voted for them, but they end up representing 12 out of 15 people.
So their representation is FOUR times more than it would be under a PR system!!
Keir, this is not a true mandate
One of the main reasons I feel the Tories collapsed in the way that they did is not because they became "centre left" like Reform voters suggest. They just became incredibly statist, a complete antithesis to true small c conservative values. They were ploughing out legislastion constantly, throwing money left, right, and centre as a central policy. That's where I think they failed. They became too heavy a government for people to tolerate anymore. Unfortunately, they've replaced it with Labour, the party of Statism 😅
Plus, the idea that Labour 'won' is astonishing when they just had a landslide from 33% of the popular vote (25% if you count the full electorate). 9 million votes for Labour when the Tories won 13 million in 2019... it's insane. Reform took the Lion's share of that Vote, taking over 4 million. I just think the way a lot of the media are talking, they're ignoring these basic facts to big up Kier Starmer.
Zero seats failed.
This was a trial run boys!
We will get both of them next time. 😂
What is Zero Seats? Only heard the term after the GE.
1 in 5 people actually voted for Labour. Wow, indeed the electoral system seems to be broken.
Reform all the way 👌👌👌👌🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
It was the tories that let in LD ?? if the choice was just reform they would now have 200 seats 😂😂 Nigel tell them your thoughts !! Sit on the fence at your own peril !! Political correctness is for cowards 😢
God bless common folk
ReformUK 🏴 🇬🇧 all day!!
What about 🏴 🏴??
Isn’t being proud in this country all about being British? How come
You didn’t run candidates in Wales and Scotland. Oh yeah that reason.
@@richardcameron3762they did run candidates in Wales and Scotland. Would be interesting if they go harder into Scotland next election
@@razzledazzle7580 just checked on Reforms website and I stand corrected 👍
Thankyou
Er…. No not really
@@razzledazzle7580 UKIP did well in Wales under their system. I think we will see Reform in the Welsh parliament.
Actually, the Government was not punished. The Conservative politicians were punished. Does anyone actually think the Government gives a damn about the voting public? Where is the evidence?
Keir Starmer is the NPC meme with hair.
Your name "Unherd" may be unintentionally appropriate...such is life.
UK has seen Labour Lite for the last years… now it’s going to get the full dose of
Until other peoples money runs out.
Labour havent been Labour in decades.
@@onepartyroule Making excuses already.
@@mikemines2931 Excuses for what exactly? Theyre [insert pejorative]. Theyre only marginally better than the Tories in some respects, and in others theyre worse.
Hopefully this will teach the sheep who voted for labour a lesson.
To my mind this video reveals itself as the best election post-mortem discussion I have heard.
People who voted Lib Dem, as far as I can see, were Conservatives who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Labour as a protest vote, so Lib Dems seem justifiable 😂
Agree. Lots of tactical going on too.
Various websites were set up to inform the electorate who was best to vote for in order to get rid of the Tories. Many Labour supporters voted Lib Democrats in order to do just that...hence the 71 seats
Don't think so. LibDems got less votes than in 2019. They still got 60 more seats though!
I voted Lib Dem but I have never voted Tory in my life and have marched in London against the thatcher govt in the eighties
@@user-bl6kx5ev7x Lib Dem’s stand for absolutely nothing, respectfully.
Zero seats. Had to be done.
I don't know, guys, but as an outsider, knowing Brexit happened, I'd go to vote for sure and choose the least worst candidate. I'm from a country that does not have any viable voting system, so I understand but do not appreciate the low turnout. Gonna root for you all thou, cheers from Eastern Europe.
What the labour party wants to do aligns entirely with the institutions of this country, significantly the Civil Service. Add to that the Greens and the Lib Dems are essentially the same although appealing to a more affluent demographic, and Labour have very little opposition. Blair's permanent government will be completed.
In my constituency the Conservative MP lost to Labour by 152 votes.
3144 votes went to Reform
This is probably another instance of Labour wining a seat thanks to Reform rather than an endorsement of its policies.
Now maybe conservatives can regroup without the bonehead Torry party.
The real illusion is that people think voting is the only time that they have a voice. Even when you are voting, you will only be voting for the constituency, not the leader. Are people comfortable with waiting every 4 years to speak out via a ballot paper? As for voting itself, no point in voting when your own constituency has historically voted one way. Even with the ones where Labour won by a small majority, they still won.
Labour are not left, more center right under Starmar
And I bet you think the current Tory party is right wing. You're lost mate. Lost.
The apathy is electric 😂
"Relatively thin, but very broad coalition" sums this peice up perfectly.
The UK, under Labour, will be hell.
22% of the electorate is not a mandate for ANYTHING
Voter allegiance has fragmented because the demography of the UK has so drastically changed. Traditional British ways of doing things no longer hold sway. There's a popular saying that I can't quite remember, perhaps someone else can? It goes 'Import the...."
Its funny how just a few years ago people were saying 'Labour will NEVER come back from this' and 'The Red Wall is gone FOREVER' just as people were saying the Tory party were no more in the IDS/Howard era.
If there is one thing the establishment are good at its maintaining the two party charade. I'd like to say good riddance to the tories...but sadly I think they will be back.
Love them or hate them, Atlee, Thatcher, Blair and Johnson......they had a vision for how Britain should be .......this brings the public with them. Playing safe and being centric , with nothing really to say
. This leads to 60% of the electorate not voting
The issue is a silly commentary on first pass the post. It is just a kind of system and the idea to move to pr and ranking would also mean the voter has no idea the exact person who will come in as the vote will be distributed. And refer to Taiwan you can see they can get politicians that the voter does not want (special referendum to kick out on guy and now he becomes effectively prime minister).
The first past the post at least for the local guy can kick out whatever you do not like eg all those big guys or ladies in Conservative Party (and even 2 in Labour Party) and force them to be “honest”. With Pr or ranking system than the big Whig will be safe and in. That is also undemocratic in alternative system.
And the liberal demo are ignoring this grand narrative of overall vote but trying a local vote strategy. Deliberately.
There are several different versions of PR and what you have described is just one of them. Ideally it should be a combination of FPTP and total regional voting. For example, some versions have one candidate elected in each district and then more candidates added according to the total vote for each party. That way, at least most voters actually get some representation.
FPTP in isolation is completely unrepresentative of the votes cast.
We should have far less than 650 MPs - half that number would be sufficient or even less. One per county (145) plus others according to the number of votes per party in the election, is just one example.
Very insightful ... Enjoyed the conversation very much
Great chat chaps - echoes and reassures my own thoughts re the rise and rise of Reform and the English Bulldog, Nigel Farage. HIs personality is re-working the scene for Britain's recovery. Britain has sunk low in a chronic depression that the ship of state needs such a fighter and great communicator to haul things back into shape. I'm grateful for your analysis of the fragility factor. An Australian 75yo F of longstanding conservative disposition. Thank you for your excellent site.
Beyond Dubious Oligarchy A moves to Beyond Dubious Oligarchy B, where A=B. Big Brother has landed.
No one bothered when the Tories got in with a minority of people voting for them. Get over it. It’s called first past the post.
You won't see in-depth analysis like this on MSM. A very good episode, thank you.
Voting system needs change
Excellent analysis thanks. You are smashing all the mainstream (unwatchable) channels…
Liz Truss' seat went to Labour, not the Lib Dems.
Excellent journalism
Maybe people in the UK are just fed up with politics in general. The Tory party's mismanagement, the let down of Brexit, the appalling premiership of Johnson and Truss and so on have drawn the enthusiasm out of the British public. The Labour Party offer stability but lack the excitement of a new tomorrow coming anytime soon.
Excellent episode, thank you
33.7% of the vote share for Labour yet they won a huge majority of seats in Parliament. The system is clearly broken and desperately needs reforming, in reality the new government does not by any stretch represent the will of the majority of the people.
I believe the nation is expressing sub-conscious, suppressed and, to a certain extent, free floating anger rooted in the Covid experience. The fact that incumbent parties are losing worldwide, I think, bears this out.
Interesting take: we are far more motivated by our unconscious than most know
Thank you. It’s just a theory of course. It seems to me that people are suffering from “secular story fatigue” and are opting instead to explore other - often suprarational - narratives. Starmer’s “unburdened by doctrine” statement is a direct appeal to this big story fatigue brought on by doctrinaire Covid measures such as lockdowns and the suppression of public debate. What’s scary about that is that Starmer appears to think that the solution to doctrinaire politics is to have no explicable, uniting narrative whatsoever.@@celiacresswell6909
Flip flops starmer
Excellent analysis thank you
Such good analysis, thank you.
thank you, excellent summary and analysis
What is also relevant is that we don't know what the 40% of non voters would have voted that is if voting was compulsory which I strongly believe it should be . I'm with Jes Phillips who said when asked about her reduced majority she replied we won.QED
Every 79 to 90 years capitalism has a massive crisis. 2008 was one such event, and it has been in a zombie since, dependent on state support with ordinary people getting poorer and the rich stealling all the wealth. Starmers Labour represents a continuation of this decline and will not last.
Excellent informed analytical conversation (as usual)
This was an excellent video. From a first time watcher.
Liz Truss lost to the Labour candidate, not the Lib Dems.
FPTP = NFFP (Not Fit For Purpose)
Great analysis. Interesting and insightful - really enjoyed it.
Thank you for this commentary. Labour didn't win by a landslide, maybe there's hope they won't last long.
The UK needs to ditch First Past The post. It needs some form of proportional representation.
Preferential voting is better.
National Service where our UK fit men & women loose their life in Ukraine for BlackRock & Global Financiers can make $ trillions & trillions from Ukraine lithium, oil & gas, & Rich agriculture land.
I think the analysis is missing the real reason for Lib Dem’s success which is anti Brexit middle class voters. That’s why places like Tunbridge Wells voted Lib Dem