Excellent video. I’m a longtime professional finisher & I thought you did a great job explaining the process. This is one of the hardest things to teach newbies😆
Hello! I have been following your page for a couple months now. I would like to first say your videos are very helpful. I also admire your work, support, and sharing of your past and future. As a retired firefighter from injuries I’ve been trying to find projects to do and each time I sometimes find myself researching it on your page. Thank you for your time and sharing information you provide here. Keep up the amazing work!!
To each his own, and I know some people's opinion is that finer grits are a "waste of time" but I go to 400 even on pine, and I can honestly say I've never had a swirl problem. I think we can all universally agree that if you take your time, you'll get better results.
Just finished a table and this video described the issues I had perfectly. Great advice! Sanding back and re-staining is definitely frustrating! Enjoy your videos
SUPER helpful. Thank you. I can imagine when you do floor sanding and the floor is not entirely even, you might come across the same problem, even when you keep the sanding machine as flat as possible??
I think you come up with more plans for folks to purchase. Like the dresser or also the coffee stand. You have so many projects but so few plans. Love 731 woodworks y’all are inspiring!!!
Great video about staining. What I have found is a huge difference (especially using Pine or Spruce) when using the pre-stain! If you have ever seen your staining come out with blotches, the pre-stain will virtually remove those blotches. Matt, maybe you can do a quick short on the difference between having pre-stain or not. Keep it up and god bless you brother!
Great tip, this has happened on a desk I made for myself and didn’t fix it as it was just for me. Will be getting one of those sanding blocks to go with the grain. Thank you JMP
Ever try water popping? Very effective at raising the grain to eliminate swirls. Never used it on softwoods but it's a great technique for hardwoods. Should work equally well on softwoods. Cheers.
Part of the problem is starting with such low grits. In most cases, it is not necessary to start with 60 or 80 grit. That is really aggressive paper and is really meant for stripping paint. Those are the grits that will cause the most swirl marks. Using cauls on glueup and scraping the glue off before it dries will make a big difference in the joint so you don't have to start with such aggressive sandpaper.
Glad you pointed that out as I was thinking the same thing. Honestly with such soft wood you should probably be starting at 120. Save yourself a lot of time and effort.
Any suggestions as to how to fix sander marks now showing up after I’ve stained the door? I think I’ve over sanded as well. I was trying to fix someone else’s repair “fix” to the door cracks caused by high heat and high humidity in Mexico. I don’t have a lot of options when it comes to products to use. They don’t have wood conditioner so I used bondo, sand dust from door, a tad of wood hardener and a dash of stain. Door looks way better than it did before but I see all the imperfections. After seeing your video I subscribed right away and now know how to sand properly for when I start on the opposite door. I definitely over sanded and am afraid at this point if I sand anymore the stain won’t absorb properly and then I’m really screwed! Help!
Great advice. I'm getting ready to head on to the 120 stage of sanding on some shelves I'm making for my wife. Hopefully using this will prevent the staining issues I had on my stove cover...👊
Thank you for this. I just started building tables and I just finished my first one. Only one of the boards had swirls. And I wasn't sure why. Sure enough, I was sanding away lips by turning my sander. I thought only sanding with 120 and now lower grits, I was safe. LOL. I didn't know turning it caused it too.
Matt. Thanks for all your great and in-depth information. I started wooding with your videos and I gained the confidence. Because of a hardship financial situation. I am out of sander for the time being. What would you recommend for the time being?
Card scrapers and cabinet scrapers work awesome for removing glue from joints that are glued together, I have both and it reduces swirl marks because your not trying as hard to get rid of the imperfections at that glue up with your sander.
This is 100% accurate I have had this problem many times. I start with a higher grit 120 or so then wipe the wood between grits. And like you said let the sander do the work I use to want to push on the sander makes it worse plus will burn up velcro on bottom of sander.
Another tip is to wipe the piece down with mineral spirits after sanding. This will offer a preview of what it'll look like when the finish is applied. Swirl marks should show up when the mineral spirits are still wet.
When I made my first big project years ago, our dining room table set, it had those swirl marks. It also has all kinds of other here and there mistakes, but my wife loves them. Says you always have to start somewhere….so she refuses to let me redo the table. It’s humbling seeing how bad I was in the beginning haha
I just noticed this on a lazy susan I made, applied graphics using my cricut, put urethane on and didn't notice it till I got to the farmers market where the lights are better. Now it's sitting in the corner till I can redo the entire thing.
You mentioned not pressing down hard while you're sanding. Another tip (if your dust extractor / shop vac has variable suction rate) is reduce the suction so the higher suction doesn't cause the random orbit sander to press harder into the wood while sanding.
It's even better if you hand sand after each grit. If those marks are made from the lower grits, it will take a lot of time to get those out with higher grits. You will spend less time if you do each grit as you go. 👊
Good advice. I strongly dislike sanding and tend to make those exact mistakes as my patience wanes. My shortcut when it comes to sanding is called a Lie Nielson 4 1/2. Sanding is miserable. Smoothing is therapeutic.
I'm not trying to argue, but pre stain has always caused me blotchy finish results. I've tried it many times over the years and still get great results without it. But DEFINITELY cleaning between grits and a final with the grain sand.
Instead of using the sanding "mouse", I just use an older style 1/3 sheet "finishing sander" for my last high-grit pass. Works great as well. Picked up a couple of those finishing sanders at Harbor Freight like...15 years ago...and they are still working just fine.
I just had an awesome opportunity to get a one-on-one lesson from a retiring woodworker for a huge company. He said he NEVER uses orbital sanders at all, and instead recommended the same thing - a finishing sander, just as you say. I learned more about finishing from that guy in one day than I knew from my entire previous 48 years of life.
@@michaelkeymont501 - Oh, I still use a random orbit sander. Up to about 220 grit or so. But, unlike most UA-cam woodworkers (for reasons I will never understand), I usually sand up to 400 grit, or maybe even 600, using the 1/3 sheet finishing sanders. Gives me a buttery smooth surface. Even on something "fuzzy" like poplar.
I typically brush on water baed poly on pine/spruce. For the next project I am building I actually bought spray can lacquer because it was such a small area. Worked great!
Just come to apologise, i was quite rude a while back in a comment, im not a religious man and i didnt like the reference to god all the time, i thought this man has done this himself nothing to do with religion, anyway i now know i was wrong to be rude about it although my thoughts are the same about religion i think you are doing a great job putting out your knowledge and helping other people get into woodwork including myself Thanks
Your only partially correct. The paper that you show on your sander in the video that is worn and cracked with torn edges is making just as many or more swirl marks. Changing your discs when worn will help. I’ve worked for a wood flooring company for 20+ years and we see this from sanders on even the hardest woods. Our sanders have to hand sand with paper if they need to use an orbital sander.
Digging in, human problems when sanding. No one likes sanding so we get impatient and end up digging in,. Great reminder to be patient and take our time and not dig in.
On a serious note. I am just learning about hand planes now. Several things make them attractive to me. No dust, no consumables, they are quieter, they last literally longer than you and I will live, and I think they may be much faster than sanding once my skills increase. Not to mention if you find abused ones that look like junk at flea markets or yard sales for under $30 they can be refurbed by anyone with very basic tools like a grinder, a wire wheel, sharpening stones and bucket to put solvent in for rust removal. Some people simply use vinegar as the solvent.
How to Cut More Degrees on a Miter Saw: ua-cam.com/video/SS9oiLreUnw/v-deo.html
Excellent video. I’m a longtime professional finisher & I thought you did a great job explaining the process. This is one of the hardest things to teach newbies😆
Thank you
Beginner here...thanks for the tip. Very helpful tip when setting up work practices to keep in mind when moving forward.
Hello!
I have been following your page for a couple months now. I would like to first say your videos are very helpful. I also admire your work, support, and sharing of your past and future. As a retired firefighter from injuries I’ve been trying to find projects to do and each time I sometimes find myself researching it on your page.
Thank you for your time and sharing information you provide here. Keep up the amazing work!!
Just followed yesterday and this is the video I need 😅
👊🏻
To each his own, and I know some people's opinion is that finer grits are a "waste of time" but I go to 400 even on pine, and I can honestly say I've never had a swirl problem. I think we can all universally agree that if you take your time, you'll get better results.
Just finished a table and this video described the issues I had perfectly. Great advice! Sanding back and re-staining is definitely frustrating! Enjoy your videos
SUPER helpful. Thank you. I can imagine when you do floor sanding and the floor is not entirely even, you might come across the same problem, even when you keep the sanding machine as flat as possible??
I think you come up with more plans for folks to purchase. Like the dresser or also the coffee stand. You have so many projects but so few plans. Love 731 woodworks y’all are inspiring!!!
Great video about staining. What I have found is a huge difference (especially using Pine or Spruce) when using the pre-stain! If you have ever seen your staining come out with blotches, the pre-stain will virtually remove those blotches. Matt, maybe you can do a quick short on the difference between having pre-stain or not. Keep it up and god bless you brother!
Great tip, this has happened on a desk I made for myself and didn’t fix it as it was just for me. Will be getting one of those sanding blocks to go with the grain.
Thank you
JMP
Awesome!! Thank you so much! I have that problem a lot and just thought pine was just finicky. This will help me a lot.
Ever try water popping? Very effective at raising the grain to eliminate swirls. Never used it on softwoods but it's a great technique for hardwoods. Should work equally well on softwoods. Cheers.
I do it on a lot of my softwood projects especially on my basswood I woodburn on. Makes it buttery smooth :)
Great content. I like listening to it while I do yard work or even in the shop.
Great video showing the why and how to avoid! This is a common mistake we have all made as beginners!
Part of the problem is starting with such low grits. In most cases, it is not necessary to start with 60 or 80 grit. That is really aggressive paper and is really meant for stripping paint. Those are the grits that will cause the most swirl marks. Using cauls on glueup and scraping the glue off before it dries will make a big difference in the joint so you don't have to start with such aggressive sandpaper.
You can still get sanding marks with 120/220 just as easy if not done right
@@shanebrown2963 yes, but it's less likely with higher grits and easier to remove. There's no reason to start sanding with 60 or 80 grit paper.
Glad you pointed that out as I was thinking the same thing. Honestly with such soft wood you should probably be starting at 120. Save yourself a lot of time and effort.
Now this is a video worth a great deal.
Any suggestions as to how to fix sander marks now showing up after I’ve stained the door? I think I’ve over sanded as well. I was trying to fix someone else’s repair “fix” to the door cracks caused by high heat and high humidity in Mexico. I don’t have a lot of options when it comes to products to use. They don’t have wood conditioner so I used bondo, sand dust from door, a tad of wood hardener and a dash of stain. Door looks way better than it did before but I see all the imperfections. After seeing your video I subscribed right away and now know how to sand properly for when I start on the opposite door. I definitely over sanded and am afraid at this point if I sand anymore the stain won’t absorb properly and then I’m really screwed! Help!
I really needed this video! I’ve resanded several projects for those same swirls🤬
Great advice. I'm getting ready to head on to the 120 stage of sanding on some shelves I'm making for my wife. Hopefully using this will prevent the staining issues I had on my stove cover...👊
This makes feel better about using my power sander. Now does it matter if the sander is a square sander, or should it be a round sander?
Thank you for this. I just started building tables and I just finished my first one. Only one of the boards had swirls. And I wasn't sure why. Sure enough, I was sanding away lips by turning my sander. I thought only sanding with 120 and now lower grits, I was safe. LOL. I didn't know turning it caused it too.
This was great! Thanks.
Matt. Thanks for all your great and in-depth information. I started wooding with your videos and I gained the confidence. Because of a hardship financial situation. I am out of sander for the time being. What would you recommend for the time being?
You saved me yet again
Card scrapers and cabinet scrapers work awesome for removing glue from joints that are glued together, I have both and it reduces swirl marks because your not trying as hard to get rid of the imperfections at that glue up with your sander.
This is 100% accurate I have had this problem many times. I start with a higher grit 120 or so then wipe the wood between grits. And like you said let the sander do the work I use to want to push on the sander makes it worse plus will burn up velcro on bottom of sander.
Another tip is to wipe the piece down with mineral spirits after sanding. This will offer a preview of what it'll look like when the finish is applied. Swirl marks should show up when the mineral spirits are still wet.
Thank you so much for adding this comment -- I have a feeling I'm gonna need it.
When I made my first big project years ago, our dining room table set, it had those swirl marks. It also has all kinds of other here and there mistakes, but my wife loves them. Says you always have to start somewhere….so she refuses to let me redo the table. It’s humbling seeing how bad I was in the beginning haha
Luvly jubbly - keep em coming.
If I caused swirls using 60 grit, should I resand with 60grit to remove them? Or can I start with 80 or 100?
I've started just holding the dust hose when using my RAS and not putting any pressure on the top of the sander.
I just noticed this on a lazy susan I made, applied graphics using my cricut, put urethane on and didn't notice it till I got to the farmers market where the lights are better. Now it's sitting in the corner till I can redo the entire thing.
Thanks!
I approve this message! Pre Stain is no joke! End result using pre stain could bump your project price tag up 60$, easy. ❤️👊🏻
Is there any way to get those out once the stain is on any advice would help new woodworker here
you have to sand it all back off and re-sand the wood
You mentioned not pressing down hard while you're sanding. Another tip (if your dust extractor / shop vac has variable suction rate) is reduce the suction so the higher suction doesn't cause the random orbit sander to press harder into the wood while sanding.
Thanks
I must be the odd one out... I quite like sanding. I find it relaxing 😂
I wonder if the steam trick would work to get the swirl marks out if you see it b4 you stain???
Not sure. It might?
This has happened to me SOOO many times!!
It's even better if you hand sand after each grit. If those marks are made from the lower grits, it will take a lot of time to get those out with higher grits. You will spend less time if you do each grit as you go. 👊
Keep up the great work
Thank you
Hello, I'm new to your channel and I really enjoy your videos.
Glad you like them!
Good advice. I strongly dislike sanding and tend to make those exact mistakes as my patience wanes.
My shortcut when it comes to sanding is called a Lie Nielson 4 1/2. Sanding is miserable. Smoothing is therapeutic.
Awesome advice Matt!! Thank you for the content!!
Thanks
Do you glue with lap and gap or tongue and groove?
Just glue the edges together
Thank you 😎. Luv u r work and appreciate u r helpful tips n tricks They help a lot. 😎
Love your vids. Thank you for what you do. God Bless
Thank you
Just ordered for a project my wife has me doing.
I'm not trying to argue, but pre stain has always caused me blotchy finish results. I've tried it many times over the years and still get great results without it.
But DEFINITELY cleaning between grits and a final with the grain sand.
Cleaning off the boards in-between grits will help make sure no heavy grit sand is left behind as you move to higher grits.
Instead of using the sanding "mouse", I just use an older style 1/3 sheet "finishing sander" for my last high-grit pass. Works great as well. Picked up a couple of those finishing sanders at Harbor Freight like...15 years ago...and they are still working just fine.
I just had an awesome opportunity to get a one-on-one lesson from a retiring woodworker for a huge company. He said he NEVER uses orbital sanders at all, and instead recommended the same thing - a finishing sander, just as you say. I learned more about finishing from that guy in one day than I knew from my entire previous 48 years of life.
Are those the square sanders?
@@mikebroughton409 correct. He preferred Dewalt...
@@mikebroughton409 - More like a rectangle for the 1/3 sheet. The square ones are the 1/4 sheet.
@@michaelkeymont501 - Oh, I still use a random orbit sander. Up to about 220 grit or so. But, unlike most UA-cam woodworkers (for reasons I will never understand), I usually sand up to 400 grit, or maybe even 600, using the 1/3 sheet finishing sanders. Gives me a buttery smooth surface. Even on something "fuzzy" like poplar.
Sand properly then use a "Glue sizing". Then sand once more with a fine grit and then stain.
Guilty. I do that all the time with the sander.
Thanks man.
Chris
How do you apply your top coat?
I typically brush on water baed poly on pine/spruce. For the next project I am building I actually bought spray can lacquer because it was such a small area. Worked great!
@@731Woodworks do you poly the whole project or just the top surfaces.
Awesome 👏
👊🏻
It's like my granny used to say - "The hurried-er you go the behind-er you get"
Gimme some 👊🏻
👊🏻
Just come to apologise, i was quite rude a while back in a comment, im not a religious man and i didnt like the reference to god all the time, i thought this man has done this himself nothing to do with religion, anyway i now know i was wrong to be rude about it although my thoughts are the same about religion i think you are doing a great job putting out your knowledge and helping other people get into woodwork including myself
Thanks
Thank you Jim. I really appreciate that!
Your only partially correct. The paper that you show on your sander in the video that is worn and cracked with torn edges is making just as many or more swirl marks. Changing your discs when worn will help. I’ve worked for a wood flooring company for 20+ years and we see this from sanders on even the hardest woods. Our sanders have to hand sand with paper if they need to use an orbital sander.
Hi Matt.
Iv been trying to find blue prints for the wooden dog crate..you sell them ?
I don’t have any for that one. Sorry
I have gotten all you plans you sell I love how they are so easy to follow ..
Thank you!
Being able to tell if I'm sanding correctly is impossible. Im.watching all the vids but missing something.
Digging in, human problems when sanding. No one likes sanding so we get impatient and end up digging in,. Great reminder to be patient and take our time and not dig in.
I despise sanding 😵 lol
me too
I'm sorry matt tried this step by step did not work
Perhaps use a hand plane instead of sanding to finish the surface? No swirl marks ever. 😀
lol true
On a serious note. I am just learning about hand planes now. Several things make them attractive to me. No dust, no consumables, they are quieter, they last literally longer than you and I will live, and I think they may be much faster than sanding once my skills increase. Not to mention if you find abused ones that look like junk at flea markets or yard sales for under $30 they can be refurbed by anyone with very basic tools like a grinder, a wire wheel, sharpening stones and bucket to put solvent in for rust removal. Some people simply use vinegar as the solvent.
Gaaah, I've totally made this mistake before
👊🏻
Guilty!!!
Do not use circular sander,.......use a belt sander & sand with the grain.
Easy-peasey solution,....duhhhh.
I've never had luck with belt sanders. Causes awful marks on pine/spruce.
I'd NEVER use a circular sander on wood. That like a cardinal sin in my book. You never go against the grain unless your stripping