Royal Enfield Classic 650 Twin versus Classic 650 Single
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
- Royal Enfield Classic 650 Twin - Good idea or not? In this video I give you my thoughts. Please let me know your thoughts in the comments below. If you have a longer story, or want to send photos use the email
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Why can't they make modern 500 like j series?
Future maybe???
I'm just waiting for a little bump in displacement on the Classic 350, something like 25-30 horsepower and 6 gears, just enough to cruise comfortably at 120 kph without revving the engine too much.
I agree with you 100%. I used to own a Classic chrome 500cc bullet in maroon, and would love to see a 650cc single version. Just bought a new Scram 411 last week, so far very impressed.
RE should have upgraded the Scram with the sherpa engine😉
A 650 single that looks like a classic 500 would have my attention . Another warmed over twin ? Not for me .
100%
Que problema tiene el bicilindrico ?
👍
= 650 ccm Twin
@@cascarificationlacking soul
I like your independent thought and true love of old school motorcycling!
I’m only 56 so still have some of that more modern Japanese bike left in me…😂
Last April I bought a used Interceptor 650 which I’m falling in love with more and more with every passing day 😊
The best thing is that it’s probably my wife’s favorite too…❤
Subscribed 🍻🍻
Thanks
Totally agree mate, they should build a 650 single, they would sell like hotcakes 👍🙂🏍
Looks great to me. No doubt it will sell by the bucket load. I wouldn't have thought it would make financial sense to create an entirely new engine when you can simply use a platform you already have and still achieve those sale figures. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Perfectly reasonable points Ian , It should be a single really . RE were never going to the expense of developing a new engine though .
You may get some negative feedback mind you as having a different opinion to the consensus is not allowed these days ....ask me how I know 😊
I've got broad shoulders 😂The joys of living in the modern era
Yes, a 650 single would have been fantastic and more in keeping with the Bullet style of bike.
A 650 single classic, with twin discs & wider wheels/tires & the rest as the 350 classic.
Bronze & chrome, red & chrome, black & chrome would have been in huge demand.
Lots of examples in the world tell us that approximately ~.055 - .08 HP per cc creates a design target for very understressed and very long lasting, practical air cooled engines good for pretty-to-look-at, useful, durable, and classically good bike designs. So, why not just back into cc’s necessary from target HP? 350-650 is a good range for singles with such output it turns out. Given that, and a smooth transmission, the bottom of the tank should be parallel to the ground. Full mudguards. Legit 2-3 hour seat with 30” or a bit less seat height. Good welds and paint. Sit up and beg ergo’s, etc. with practical accessories available. You’re welcome! 🙃
Thanks Ian and you make some interesting points.
RE are faced with the same issues as any of the other volume manufacturers, when they have developed a very good engine platform in the twin 650 and a “parts box” of components, there is a financial incentive to tweak it into various formats to capture as many different markets as possible. In this case they may well fall short when it comes to satisfying as you put it “old school” afficiandos of the Classic model. However, the compromise they have produced is likely to go down well with buyers that have less knowledge/ attachment to the past version of this model.
Thanks again for your video.
I agree with Your way to see things. I'll stick with my 350 classic in chrome bronze, and do regret I did not buy the 500 as I was struggling with health problems at the time they were sold . Maybe I'll change my mind when I'll see the 650 for real, I don't know. Greetings from Luxembourg and ride safely.
I agree. I think you were spot on about how well it would sell also. I think they were afraid it would compete against the 650 twins. Of course they could have bumped them up to 750 I suppose.
I totally agree with you Ian. Any new Classic 650 should be a single and it should sit within a 'Classic' frame and design which is made for it. They could exploit a gap in the market that currently only the BSA is filling. Big singles have character and RE is haunted by the ghost of the 500 and this ghost will not be put to rest with twin cylinder engine mounted in a generic frame and simply named 'Classic' or 'Bullet'. Personally speaking, I don't like the new 350 Classic/Bullet that much. With these bikes they've just taken a 3D photocopy of a 500 Classic/Bullet and fitted it to a modern generic frame using plastic inner mouldings to hold the thing together. There's just so much fakery on these bikes. The battery isn't even behind the now plastic battery box cover, It sits deep inside what used to be the air filter box and to remove it means pulling out loads of wiring and even more plastic. The optional sprung main seat only has fake springs!! The instrument dials and key surround are all chromed plastic and plastic 'glass'. The throttle body cover is plastic. The side box lids open to plastic shells with flimsy hinges to plastic. Don't get me wrong, the J Platform is fine but it was designed for the Meteor and Hunter and not designed for a Classic/Bullet. They should have called it the 'All New Grafted On Plastic 350 REbodged'!! lol Just my opinion 🙂
If the classic 650 engine was rephrased to 360 degrees like a real Triumph, Norton & incidently kawa w650/800 i think that would give it a more authentic feeling/character and make it standout from the other Enfield 650s.
Being new to bikes, my first experience is the j platform 350 and the 411 himalayan. So I lack the nostalgia for the older singles. I am interested in the 650 twin for the occasional two up freeway use here in the US. I really like the styling of my classic 350 but I have been seriously considering the super meteor. I am not a fan of the forward controls, since I have a lot of rough road where I like to take a load off with the mid controls. The 650 seems to be the best compromise of a bit more power, and the styling I like. If the classic were in a 650 single, I would easily be swayed to your point of view.
The Interceptor is a better bike in some ways.First it has a true twin down tube frame.Much stronger for rough use than the stressed member. Brakes and suspension can be upgraded.They make a great scrambler.Tough frame and right in the middle to modify
I tried the interceptor and found it a bit soul less tbh. That was after trying the goldstar 650 which gave me smiles for miles. You could be onto something here.
I think so, which they would do a 650 single looking like the 500 bullet,I would add one to the workshop
I test rode a Classic 500 a couple of years ago , I was instantly hooked with that 500 thumper. The sound. It sang to me. So, I bought a 2020 Bullet 500 Trials. It is my little go everywhere bike. I would be standing in line with you if RE built a 650 single. I always thought single cylinder bikes had no character until I rode a Classic 500.
Ian I agree a 650 air-cooled single would be a great interpretation of the RE classic. However euro5 emission legislation make this a very difficult engineering task for any manufacturer. If they could make a water cooled engine with the aesthetics of the old 500 in my mind they would have a winner but it may have to be priced at too high a level to sell in volume. I agree with your feeling on the BSA a cheaply cobbled together pastiche of a 50s BSA sold at a premium price. Being a BSA man I was very disappointed in this.
Not a huge fan either, I’d of preferred they redone the classic 500 range
A lot of reports say the chassis of the 650 meteor/ shotgun is uncomfortable over rough roads. Riding position will be different but it would suggest it's starting from a bad place 😐
Ian, a very interesting perspective, I really appreciated your side by side comparison of the 500 Bullet engine with the Interceptor twin engine. The only other engine that is as beautifully styled as the Bullet is the Kawasaki W800, which in my opinion is the best I have ever seen. I agree that with a 500-650 cc single cylinder, classically styled bike, RE would have an absolute winner! And, if they could make it air cooled, well we can but dream!
W800 is a beautiful bike ,just shows the Japanese can build a classic bike if the want to
It's a re-badged Super Meteor, agreed. Fair enough and understandable from the business and regulations side. Doubt there's a precedent in the 100 year old catalogue for a parallel twin in a Classic/Bullet? But why not a V-twin 1000cc Bullet? Carbury made a few. Brakes, suspension, everything would need upgrading, but at least I wouldn't feel like a kid when a HD passes me.😂
Its a Shotgun with a new paint job basically, only thing classic about it is its massively overweight as all Enfields are.
Massively over engineered....robust and solid. No bad thing, some would say.
That’s because they are made of metal not plastic that cracks when they get older, if you take care of it they will last a lifetime that is not bad thing
planning of this or BSA 650.. which one would u suggest ?
@@Snoopy-cq5jylightness... Lots of folk keep going on about lightness. Lightness is generally inexpensively created by something being absent. And that's usually wall thickness in frame tubing or less robust plate sections or a plastic fuel tank etc. . Give me a nice chunky robust RE any day
Interesting points Ian. I pretty much agree with you. I'll definitely be hanging on to my two Classic 500s 🙂
I haven't seen too many 9f the pics of this new bike but it appears to be a super meteor with a cosmetic make over. I agree with your opinion. I am not too fussed with it.
My thoughts to
I agree about the twin. I can't see the point, really. I think a 500 single would be possible based on the J series but would have to have the bore and stroke of the original bullet for the 'feel' but, like you, I can't see it happening. Maybe they could do a 650 single with the engine sloped forward and buy the rights to Panther 🙂
Respect your point of view.
I find the 650 Twin engine very good looking. Not sure what you mean by featureless, but it’s a clean, clutter-free design.
Growing up in India looking at the gorgeous cast iron 350s / 500s, the UCE engine is not exactly good looking. It’s probably the second ugliest engine RE ever made after the horrible AVL engines. I do own a J series 350 Bullet, and find the engine good looking.
Not trying to be offensive in anyway, but looks are just subjective.
I do pray RE makes a J series 500, but with their own 650 Twin and the 650 BSA, I wonder who is really going to potentially buy one.
Cheers and ride safe!
The 650 engine looks great
I agree with you, something doesn't feel right. Seems like a shotgun/ meteor with just a nod to a classic. It has that slightly 'sporty' forward leaning frame.. which doesn't work for me. I like it on the shotgun, but not this. Difficult to see clearly but it has the shotguns efi cover without the traditional oval panel. Part of me wants it to be another mock up. For the life of me, as it would sell in huge amounts, I don't know why they don't just make a carbon copy of the recent classic with a bigger single. Personally I fear it's a bit like the himmy- where a few tweaks and a bit more oomph were all that were needed, instead we get a completely new bike. But, I'll still eagerly wait and see what turns up with some better shots.
I think that bend in the exhaust to go back up is the culprit. That gives the game away.
To me it's a Shotgun 650 with spoked wheels and chrome instead of the blacked-out look. I've been hanging on waiting for a scrambler and not quite opting for an Interceptor, but if this is comes in some sort of sand or olive scheme with a 19" front wheel then it'll be a couple of minor tweaks away from being a perfect all road tourer for me.
Just for me, coming back to motorcycling I wanted a classic looking 500 but up to the latest emission story…. And as yet there was nothing I’m interested in so I’m trapped between the BSA 650…. there something holding me back off that and the Enfield 350…. I don’t know whether to pick up one of the latter and chuck all the mods at it…. But I’d rather pick up something from stock.
I can see why they've done it from a financial perspective, it makes sense to get as much use out of the Super Meteor platform as possible.
But like you I think a Classic should be a single, its first iteration was after all based on the original Bullet and a Bullet simply can't be a twin.
And of course in India the Bullet was available as both a 350 and a 500.
So yes, it really should have a big-bore J-series engine, but I'm going to disagree with you and say it shouldn't be a 650cc, stick with 500cc as we had before.
And that makes sense, a mid-point between the single cylinder 350cc and the 650cc twin, rather than a rival to the latter. Of course it's a bit close to the 450cc of the Himalayan and the Guerilla but they're both essentially modern bikes, watercooled, with a completely different character.
As for a Scrambler, again we're going to have to agree to disagree. Any Scrambler should be an Interceptor variant, just like the Scramblers back in the day.
The off-road Bullet, if there is to be one, should be a Trials bike.
You got it in one Ian the classic 350 - 500 have what I look for in all my bikes ‘character’ that’s possibly why I’ve owned mostly European bikes in my 50 years of riding, even my peds when I was 16 all my mates had FS1E AP etc me Puch and Casal and only a couple of UJM’s characterless, good vid mate, just got back from the Uk 😳, so glad to be home…. Pete 🇫🇷
I'm with you on your reasoning.
Would have loved a Reborn Bullet 500 single (or 650 single, sure).
It looks like the Classic 650 won't really have much 'classic' character if it will be largely the Super Meteor / Shotgun platform.
I think what the Classic 650 will do for me is convince me the Bullet 350 is a good/better choice even if a little weak.
I don’t think they should have bothered with a Classic 650. Too similar to other models.
I think seeing it in the flesh will be a big moment one way or the other
I could potentially live with a Classsic/Bullet with the 650 twin (because big single probably won't happen due to emissions regs) but the big "sin" they have committed here is to use the Super Meteor / Shotgun frame ...which means we're going to get another bike that weighs 240-250 kg. That's simply too much. At that weight there are plenty other motorbikes to choose from which are so much better in all respects other than the faux classic looks.
So true
@@iantoy7778 Don't forget the 650 scrambler "Bear" is also in the works (you'll probably see that one at Eicma too )...and that's on an Interceptor frame
My biggest concern with the 650 classic would be the weight. The bike needs to weigh less than the interceptor. Many older riders traded in there interceptors for the slightly lighter 350 classic. RE riders in the uk are generally of the older persuasion.
Last weekend, at the Oneride2024, I noticed my 2024classic350 can keep up with the Bullet500 pretty well. If I was to direct a decent upgrade I'd say upgrade to a 500cc and keep it as it is. BUT... at 62mph/100kmh, the upright seating position does show some decent wind buffeting and helmet noise. At higher speeds one sould sit a bit more forward bend which to me, stresses the lower back. For this reason I like the classic350 so much. The classic650 does not seem to have the "sitting on top of the bike" but a more in the bike experience, The tank appears to be much to high positioned and the overall dimensions look a bit odd. to me the 650 platform is not a Classic platform and the sound of this parrallel doesn't match the thumbing at all.
The classic650 should be "on top of the bike" and a single. But I am in doubt if I really need the extra hp I like the 350 for what it is and 65mph is good enough.
Even my dealer said he'd rather take the nimble 350 for a group trip than the 650.
I do understand many of us do not understand the art of consuming less and for those the classic650 is targetted, not for the 350 owners who see the downsides of this little bike as a feature.
The 650 is for the masses and good for expanding business, but not for the current Classic/bullet owners IMO.
wrong platform it is...
I see Sue listening over your shoulder making sure you say 'no thanks, I'm extremely happy with what i have'😉
The boss listens through walls...
I keep trying to get her to agree to standing the Bullet in the hallway. For some reason the answer is always no 😂
@@iantoy7778 I wonder why😉
@@stevesanelli90 Because it should go in the living room of course! The hallway... blasphemy!
My interceptor comes out of the garage as soon as the condensation starts to appear and into the dining room until spring 😊👍
@@kennethheldreich6604 lucky you😊
I don't think they'll get an air-cooled 500 single past emissions, never mind a 650. Even the 350 is choked, lovely bike that it is. When the Shotgun came out it was clear the 650 Classic would be a heritage styled version of it. It's a personal thing, but the short stroke twin isn't a very attractive looking unit.
Hello, the Canon decal on the battery cover of 500. Did it come with it or is it after market? Because I am interested.😊
I bought the decals off eBay
Great analysis....logical choice should have been 500 classic reborn or better still a modern 650 with kick start... could be air-cooled ..low compression though unlike the BSA goldstar
Maybe, to create the classic look, they should have used the intercepter with classic style (proper) mudguards, a nice old style headstock nacelle and fork shrouds and 1960 style silencers that should be enough. That said, I don't like chrome and I hate spokes and would prefer cast wheels with tubeless tyres. I don't like the huge and heavy chromes silencers and would prefer stainless steel. But I must confess that I do have a 500 UCE C5 . A 650 single? I had a 690 KTM Duke which churned out about 71 BHP - Superb WP suspension but not a nice ride being too "hard and harsh" . I felt it was trying too hard and would have a fast but short life. The modern 350 for all it's fuel injection and OH cam is not anything significantly more powerful than my old 1961 350 Bullet (I wish I still had it). The UCE 500 vibrates mostly because it is not well made. Poor crankshaft and alternator balance and insufficient support from main bearings. My 1954 500 BSA single which I rebuilt in 1968 did not vibrate and I lugged a sidecar around with it. A 650 'ish' big single with static and dynamic crankshaft balance and with a balanced clutch and alternator rotor and a rotating balance shaft may be just the ticket as long as they aim for something like 50 to 55 BHP. I think the 19 inch front wheel is better able to manage on poor quality roads ( much like we now have in the UK). I enjoy your videos so please keep it up.
I upgraded my 2023 classic 350 with a big bore kit and the Kent cam, and it’s much more capable now, almost 1000 km, now so it’s starting to lose up. Much better torque. 410cc kit👍
Sounds good
They should bring back the 500 Classic with the kick starter , just for the fun of it,. They are great fun and if you put a bash plate, some knobbies and a sidecar on them they are unstoppable. They could bore out or stroke the new Himalayan 450 motor and put that in them.
Except the 450cc is water cooled and the Classic is aircooled
@@AlexOnABoat bore out or/and stroke the 350 then.
There’s not much point in releasing a cycle called Bullet or Classic unless it’s a single cylinder.
Royal Enfield has released several 650cc models lately, and that’s cool. But it’s another audience...
A Bullet/Classic is in my eyes a single, that’s the whole DNA of that model.
Maybe RE comes out with a great motorcycle, in fact I don’t doubt that they will. But what differentiates it from the myriad of other 650’s from the later years...?
planning on classic 650 or BSA 650.. which one would u prefer and why ?
Royal Enfield fan ,have 3 so would have pleased to see a 650 single Enfield. If they did bring on out I would probably buy one . The BSA 650 can't get it in Bulgaria anyway. I like my 500 bullet.
IAM in Romania at the moment for 3 days on an 1100 km trip on the Himalayan which I also like lot and as you have seen I have the interceptor so quite happy with what I have got. Not really thought about the BSA somethings on the bike IAM not keen on but would like the idea of a royal Enfield 650. 😉
@@iantoy7778 bullet 650 would be an icing on the cake. plz review bsa if u get a chance
Maybe they should stop chasing the Classic name.
I think they have used the old names completely wrong. The Redich Meteor was always a twin. The Constellation was a twin. I have a Meteor J and a Hunter J, I really like them, but Enfield have completely lost the plot with the names.
My Redich Super Meteor had a 2 in to 1 exhaust with the silencer tucked really close to the bike, not pointing at the moon 😢
The BSA gold stars I've seen wernt poorly made at at!.over engineered perhaps made to last,the controls might be on the cheaper side but that's about it
i think ur summarizing the BSA goldstar 650 😅
I agree with a lot of what you say and would be first in queue if they made a larger 500 or 650 Bullet . . . I think the market is crying put for that . . . Might require water cooling however which would kill it, as it does the "Gold Star" . . .
I'm sad to see so many Super Meteor components on the 650 Classic - it looks like a super Meteor with the headlamp casquette and fork shrouds added which is a missed styling opportunity . . .
I also agree with you on the looks of the 650 twin engine - its very bland and ordinary looking - it needs some "sexing up' . . . The old Reddich Twin engines were just magnificent to look at . . .
In fact a look back at the old British RE bikes would be what I would recommend to the factory - many of them were just beautifully styled - you have a tremendous heritage to call upon - shapely front mudguards for example, the one on the new Classic 650 is very clumsy and unattractive
The new classic needs to be a long stroke oil cooled 500cc single bucket plodder . No place for 650 cc twin lumps , or such things as rider modes , blipper , slipper or fly by wire throttle tat on classic RE .
Yes proper bike for proper riders
Hey there! I noticed the Bulgarian flag in the intro and I am wondering what is your connection to where I am from 😝😁
We are English but moved to Bulgaria in 2011 currently living in the NW near Kozloduy.
@@iantoy7778 wow thats pretty cool! I am near Ruse so if you are coming by give a shout!
Agree,it should have been a 650cc single.They could have made a scrambler version as well.
Knowing RE, this won't be for Indian roads either, just as the SM650 and Shotgun650 aren't. RE refuses to improve anything (especially for India)--so the chassis and hard suspension will be retained from those two.
I'll reserve judgment on what I ultimately think, but you make REALLY good poiints.
I have a Himmy 411 and think they could have made a better job of its successor. Keeping it in the same vein as the 411. Air-cooled etc..
Maybe they could have bore the 350 to a 500 and put better cams. The 350 seems overbuilt for what it is. I think they could have bore it out easily
There is a plug and play 500 overbore kit
I really like the idea of a classic 650. I am excited to see more detail about it. Money still is an issue for me. If i get the chance then I might want an interecptor set up like the attached link. I would prefer a full rear and front fender like the classic. I would maintain the stock tire size
ua-cam.com/video/WnvPpFl_YyY/v-deo.htmlsi=siT4PRvYWTRCtB0k
Some nice looking bikes in that video.
The balancer you suggest for the 650 single robs the engine of power as well as reducing the vibration.
Personally I am grateful that you do not have any input into RE,s designs😂
OMG YOU DONT LIKE THE 500. DONT CARE!
@@shakespearetiger800XR l love the 500 that's why I have one
Does anyone understand this comment?