The only way to insulate pull down attic stairs
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2019
- This video will show you the best way to insulate your pull-down attic stairs. Forget those flimsy insulated tents, this is sturdy and no leaks.
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Just got my attic ladder replaced and I'm debating doing this but I'm not the most handiest of people. Watching this video is giving me confidence to tackle this project on my own. Your instructions are super clear and simple.
You can do it!
It’s 102 today here in Louisiana and in the hall upstairs it’s 76 but when I pointed towards the seam on the attic door I got 92. I’m definitely making this asap. Thanks for this video instruction. 👍🏼👍🏼
I'm surprised it's that cool there in August. I was at Barksdale years ago in March and it felt like 125°.
Thanks Ray. I’m going to make one myself here in freezing Ireland. Silly builders put attic hatch in bedroom ceiling so all heat is being lost through it into cold attic. Can’t wait!
" ... mainly because I don't really know ... " lol - classic, thank you!
Excellent professional demonstration with explanation on how each part of the box is cut and why--to fit the opening in a snug manner and easy to move and reset in the opening. Direct and to the point. No idle chatter. Thank you, well done. Now I have to do this!
Thanks Delia. Good luck with building yours.
Just finished building a cover. Thanks for the instructions; easy project. I found the most time consuming part was peeling the backing off the tape. A few other learnings from my job. I did not have a utility knife that went all the way through the board so used a hacksaw blade. This worked ok, but did leave a rough, uneven edge. Putting the manufactured edge down along the staircase board helped solve this. I also had a gap between the staircase frame and the attic frame that was not insulated. I filled this with spray foam ( Great Stuff).
Excellent! You'll be amazed at how well it works. The difference in the winter is immediately obvious.
Many thanks! There's probably a criteria to decide which way to face that foil. It reflects radiant heat well, so simply ask which direction matters more. If you're more concerned about your home heat leaking into the attic in winter, then face the foil inward bouncing that heat back in. If heat from the attic getting into your house in summer matters more, then face the foil out. Of course if you can find insulation with double-sided foil, that doesn't matter.
If you put 2 layers on, the inside can reflect, and the outside can reflect. You don't need double sided foil.
The foil always faces inwards. You will not get heat radiating from outside that passes the foil but it does act as a moisture barrier and if you have it the other way, you can end up with condensation inside the insulation which you absolutely do not want.
You may be right but the board I used was foil on one side and plastic film on the other so I won't get moisture through either side.
Hey, just had my husband watch this. We have the same type of pull-down stairs. Thanks for the tip, again!!! :)
For less than $100 you can do this. You'll be amazed at how well it works.
Looked at many videos on this topic and loved your design the best, especially at the 6:10 minute mark where you show how you added the additional foam. I just did this, using 1/2" foam inside the frame for the stairs, and then added 2" foam on the sides (above the floor level) and on the top. Checked it from underneath by leaving the attic light on and turning off the light in the living space - saw no cracks of light in the box - nice tight seal. I also like how you built it in place, since nothing is completely square in an older house! Thanks!
Glad you found it helpful. It will make a huge difference in your comfort.
Truth.
Thanks. I was looking at foam to do this today. I like how your box fits down into the area around the stairs. Good job.
It's an easy, inexpensive project that will make your house much more comfortable.
Thank you!!! I was looking for a way to insulate my new Werner 25x54 attic ladder. I discovered a ton of fiberglass blanket above my opening, so I'll be needing to rearrange how attic is insulated. Not something easily planned when you are looking at an uninsulated 25 x 54 hole in the ceiling. lol. Thank you for making the video and showing some before and after. I have some EPS foam board , so I'll be looking forward to this. BTW, I ground down a jigsaw blade to resemble a bread knife with rounded over scallops. Bosch want's like $14 for a blade. It does cut pretty well and smooth enough through 2" EPS foam.
Great tip on the jigsaw blade. I'll have to try it.
Awesome video! Thank you for taking the time to make it and share it, its appreciated.
Thank you for your kind words.
Good video! Glad your wife let you down from the attic. Not so sure that would happen around here.
good solution thanks for sharing ray.
Definitely doing this before winter comes. Great video!
It makes a huge difference. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the video, clear instructions without the waffle!-am going to make one of these this week..kind regards from the chilly UK 😊
Glad you found it helpful.
Nice and simple solution. I will try. Thanks from Poland.
It is easy to do.
I used extra drop ceiling angle and rivets to build a box. I than added hinges. It swings to the right as I enter the attic. It's a beautiful thing.
Sounds pretty cool.
A great job and he has nailed it as far as i am concerned. No air infiltration this way. The cost is certainly nice too.
Thanks Joe.
I’m in Georgia, the heat difference is HUGE in summer! Building mine today!!
Thanks!!
You won't be disappointed Robert.
Woo hoo! Just did this. Thank you for help!
Just in time for winter! Thanks for watching.
Great idea, The only change or addition I would make is to put some handles on it in case I need to pull it down a little to make sure it seals
Good idea!
Just what I was looking for today. Thanks!
Glad you found it. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the vid, I just did the same in my attic this weekend
Awesome! I'm sure it will help with drafts.
I like your solution very much. Will be giving it a go. Thanks!
Thanks Colin. Should help make your house more comfortable.
Awesome! Thanks!!!
Good video. I’ll start doing this soon.
Looks really good! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching
Excellent idea ! Thank you
Thanks, and thanks for watching.
That’s awesome man, thank you for the video!
Glad you liked it. It really made a difference in my house this past winter.
I thought that this was a great idea and fully planned out my project; however, just before buying the materials, I was reviewing the rigid foam board documentation and noted that it "must be covered with an approved ignition barrier and cannot be left exposed". There are paints that can be sprayed on, but these are prohibitively expensive...like ~$100 a gallon. The next best method I could find was to cover all exposed foam with a 1/2" board, but that would add considerable weight and cost. Lastly, fire-rated polyiso board is available, but it currently goes for ~$100 per 4' x 8' sheet.
As I was searching for a solution, I came across fireproof, foil-based Attic Stair Insulation Covers on Amazon. These products appeared to be very thin; however, they were rated ~R15 (almost 3x the rating of 1" rigid foam: XPS is R5 and polyiso is R6) and they were priced about the same as one 4' x 8' sheet of 1" rigid foam board (currently ~$30 for foil-backed polyiso). Furthermore, it's much faster and easier to install--it's simply stapled in (though I intend to run a bead of silicone around it for a better seal). I don't know that I believe the R-value rating, but in my humble opinion it's certainly not worth creating a potential fire hazard (or liability issue) when a cheaper, easier, and (allegedly) better performing method exists.
The tutorial was well done, though, Ray.
Doesn't your attic have bare rafters? Wood is more flammable.
@@HouseDoctorRay Yes, it certainly does; however, I strongly disagree that wood is more flammable. In fact, covering the foam board with 1/2 plywood meets the code requirement, so I find it highly illogical and unlikely that the code would allow for a less flammable material to be covered by a more flammable material...
Great idea, and excellent video!! Thank you!
Thanks for watching Brian and the nice comments.
Nice install, attention to detail
Thank you
Nice Job Ray , getting a one put in soon will be sure to , cover it up and will reference back to your video .,
Thanks John.
Thank you for paying attention to air gaps and sealing -- a lot of other videos just slap it on top and don't mention that. They may be helpful, but not as effective as when it is air sealed like you did in this video. Nice work!
Yes. Cutting the airflow is the most important thing.
Great video! Thank you!
Glad you liked it.
Thank you this is awesome !
Glad you liked it.
Well done. Thanks.
Glad you liked it.
Great idea. I'll do the same... Thank you ..
This is a great idea. Initially I thought the tombstone design might not be convenient enough, but a hinged design would really be worse now that I think about it. Thanks for the upload!
Glad you liked it.
Thanks Jimmy
You're welcome Justin.
That's pretty cool thanks for making the video
Thanks for watching. It really does make a huge difference.
Great idea
Thanks Brendan
love the intro
Very good!
Thank you. Stay warm.
Great video! Thx!
Thank you and thanks for watching.
Good job 👍
Thank you
I'd keep an eye on the area where the lid is recessed down into the attic access framing. Could get moisture build up there depending on your local climate.
Great video
Thanks.
Good decision on the shiny side good video
Thanks, and thanks for watching.
Brilliant
Thanks.
Boom, 1k likes! :D congrats.
Good setup. btw
Thanks.
Thanks for the video.I will have to build it because its freezing.
You'll be toasty warm when you're finished.
I had 10 plus inches of cellulose blown in several years ago. Went up recently to install security cams. All of that cellulose has sank to the rafter tops. As in it's ALL GONE. Cellulose is a waste of money. It settles over time. Like you just tossed all that cash out the window. At least pink panther fiberglass stays put.
That's a cool idea. Though the hinge would be useful. My attic doesn't have enough room to open something that big.
Any type of hinge on foam board would fail eventually anyway.
Thankfully I only have to go in my attic when I'm making a video about insulating attic stairs.
For the record using aluminum foil when cooking the dull side is the non-stick stick. There is a big difference.
Good to know. Thanks.
Oh wow... I never knew that! Cool!
I've got a tiny attic and very little space around the stairs. I checked around and it seems the Attic Tent will be a better solution for me, rather than buying all the insulation and cutting them custom.
You gotta do what works.
By the way, I just completed doing mine EXACTLY the same way you did yours. As they say, great minds... There is a difference though, I used EPS rather than PolyIso. I don't think it makes much difference, but the PolyIso has slightly higher R value per inch I believe. I have heard that PolyIso can lose some R value over time though. Not sure if that's true or not, but the EPS certainly is a lot cheaper! Makes more of a mess when cutting it. Lots of static clingy 'snowflakes' all over the place!
Oh... one more thing. I put the foil face on BOTH inside and outside. Since there were two layers of insulation my thought was that if it were on both sides, it would reflect heat down in the winter from the bottom, and reflect heat away from the top in the summer.
Like a thermos! Keeps things hot and cold.
thanks for the video, can you come to my house in NJ and build one for my attic? :)
Sorry I moved outta there. Much cheaper to live on this side of the Delaware.
Hi Thanks for video, well done. Would be helpful if you had some specs on foil tape, and sheets of insulation
Any rigid foam board from the lumber yard should work. Just check the fire ratings. Get the foil tape from the ductwork section (not grey duct tape).
This is a very creative way to a solution and kudos for that!
If I had to improve on your design, I'd put a rubber seal around the door, you also need to make sure that it's continuous so the ends sort of get melted together and for that you need to leave them about 1/2" longer on each side. Try using a rubber seal not foam and you can maybe glue that instead.
I'd also make sure that the frame has a thermal break from the ceiling. You need access to the space around the frame. Make sure that all of that if filled for foam. If you can get a hold of a roll of expanding window installation foam that's best but if not the gun spray kind is also a good solution. There will likely be some packers around the frame. Not much you can do about thermally separating those so ignore them. Fill everything else with foam. One dry, cut out the excess. You can also take the door trim off and do the same on the other side. You'd be amazed how much heat gets lost though the gap around the door.
Great video. I will be making one of these boxes soon. I am considering doubling the flat surface in attempt to use as much of the full sheet of material and to increase R value. What do you think?
I doubled the sides and the top. It's only single walled where it tuck into ladder frame. More is gooder!
Im thinking the shiny side should be on outside facing attic space, would that help in the summer months to reflect heat? Also in winter months the white side facing steps would absorb heat?
You could put a hinge, cord and pulley on it so that pulling down the ladder would lift up the cover?
That level of engineering is way over my head.
great Idea, I just wonder why I don't see insulation on the floor of the attic!
It's in between the joists. There is plywood covering it up.
An energy efficiency contractor installed one with a wood frame and lid. It's solid but has me wondering about the consequence of all that weight resting in one spot.
If you're able to easily open it then the weight is nothing to worry about.
This is a great walkthrough and I'm planning to try it myself. One question, my lightswitch box for the attic is built into the side of the frame for my pulldown stairs, in a corner. The way the switch box is positioned, it would obstruct any foam board--I also have a narrower 1" area to work with. What's the right approach for dealing with this? Should I measure and cut a switch box-sized gap in the board? Would this allow too much of an air leak? And do I need to wrap that area in foil tape or something to prevent a fire hazard?
If you can't move the switch then you'll have to notch the foam board to go around it. Yes, I would tape the edges to make it more durable. Just be very careful that the foil tape and the foil on the board can't slip behind the cover and short the switch.
Foam board insulation is technically flammable but so is all the exposed wood in your attic.
@@HouseDoctorRay True on the wood in your attic, however building codes require foam board to be insulated for a 15 minute burn by using something like drywall. In this case the difference in wood in the attic vs this is that this gives off horrible chemicals when it burns/melts as well as goes up like a dry Christmas tree.
Thank you for the vid! Going to try. One question, it appears to be a box within a box -- is it? (vid didn't show the details)
I built a single box then built a second box around it to get a double layer of insulation.
Works really well and makes the house much more comfortable.
Thanks. For the video, I just built one today. I couldn't get the cuts as clean as yours but I made sure the natural edge that I didn't need to cut was facing the bottom and to make up for the jagged cuts on the top and sides, I uses plenty of the Nashua foil tape. Do you think that adding one of those attic covers they sell on Amazon over the box would give it a more finished look since they're about the same dimensions as the box?
Possibly, but who is in your attic looking at it?
@@HouseDoctorRay You know what? That an excellent question. No one. So I'll just leave it alone!!
So I'm reading up on this project and I really appreciate your guide. During my research, it seems that to code now the insulation should be equivalent to the surrounding attic insulation. Add batt fiberglass on top of the cover to looks to be recommended to improve the total insulation. Any thoughts on this? Have you found that just the foam board is sufficient for your needs?
It stopped the cold drafty air from coming in.
Awesome job. How many 4x8 sheets did you need?
Thanks Keith. I used two sheets but that's because I made it double thickness. You can easily make one of these out of one sheet.
Great video! How much foil tape do you need for a project like this?
One roll is enough if you get at least 50 feet.
Does it make sense to add Weight on top of it and add wheather stripping like a rubber quarter round to make a seal tight better? Thank you . Was very helpful
I would only add weatherstripping if you need to because the framing is not flat or straight. Something like this would work, amzn.to/3ul3gJB. Or maybe camper foam from the auto parts store, it is used between pickups and bed covers.
@@dropndeal Actually an airtight seal is vital, because the thermal barrier can’t work completely if heated air is rising into the attic through cracks and gaps.
How many 48”x8ft boards did you need and is this 1 or 2 inch foam board?
One 4x8 sheet should give you enough to do a single layer. I used 1" thick because the framing around the stairs was tight. Use the thickest you can fit. I put two layers of 1" board so I used two sheets.
I have two attic doors. One in my hall and one in the garage. Both are not insulated. Would this cause my house to be hot in the summer? The rest of the attic seems to be effectively insulated.
Definitely. You can probably feel the heat just by touching the doors. If you look in the video description you will also see a link to a handheld laser thermometer. They are very handy to find spots where the insulation needs to be fixed.
polyisocyanurate is flammable when left exposed and should not be used unless it is surrounded by 1/2 inch gypsum or other non flammable material.
Fire safety is always something to consider. According to this link polyisocyanurate is less flammable than the exposed sheathing and flooring (osb) found in many attics.
www.qualtim.com/sites/qualtim.com/files/uploads/PIMA/PIMA_TechnicalBulletin_XXX_v2.pdf#page=6
You should also compare it to the flammability of kits you can buy that are made of styrofoam.
Joe raises a good point that should be considered.
How does the material do with sound proofing? This is exactly what im looking to do to an attic, except we hangout up there sometimes so we can be loud (we’re a college group) Roommate goes to bed early. Looking to cover the space with sound proofing. Any suggestions?
It will help a little bit with noise. You should Google sound proofing floor.
Hi, will this work with blown in insulation I'd it it higher loft than the rafters? Thanks.
Sure. As long as you have a flat surface for the box to rest on.
that is one massive attic.. i can barely crawl in mine
Everything looks bigger on camera. We don't even use it. We're in the NE and have a full basement for storage.
I like this video and made one in the winter. Worked great, but went up a few weeks ago and the tape failed. Too hot I suppose. Any suggestions?
I like Nashua tape the best. 3M is also good. Life is too short to use cheap foil tape.
UL rated foil tape for ducts should adhere to the foil side well and hold up to attic heat, but perhaps not as well to the raw insulation side. Also if you are doing this in a blown-in insulation area, the insulation dust may contribute to tape adhesive failure, wiping the insulation off just before taping may yield better results..
As far as I know the shiny side is supposed to face whatever warm side your trying to insulate... the shiny side is for radiant heat to reflect heat back towards the warm space, the foam is for insulation against the cold space on the other side...
That was my thought. But in the summer when the attic is 150°...
@@HouseDoctorRay I guess you have to build two of them one for summer and one for winter. LOL good job man. I'm trying to figure out how to make my access door trimless and almost invisible.
@@STEVEM730 Couldn't you just glue/adhere radiant barrier foil on the opposite side. That way it's radiating heat back into the attic in the summer and radiating heat back into the house during the winter.
@@tenazrael honestly since you are doubling up just put have the radiant barrier facing both directions
What R value did you use for the foam board?
Don't remember. Whatever the R value of two layers of polyisocyanurate is.
Very helpful but I have an actual door to my attic since there's a room over my garage.
You should be fine as long as it is an insulated door that is sealed well.
Love that screaming styrofoam sound 😖
Goes right to the bone! Thanks for watching.
Will this work for heat coming in during the summer?
Absolutely. It is just like the insulation in your walls.
So those covers that tout R values of 14 to 17 are pretty much worthless? Also, how hard is it to position the box when you head back down from the attic? Thank you!
I can't say for sure how well the pre-made covers insulate. I can tell you that I find it hard to believe that a 1/4 inch flexible foam cover can insulate as well as 2 inches of solid foam. Rewatch the end of the video and you will see how easy it is to get the cover to drop into place.
Ah, thanks! Another question -- is R10 foam board adequate for boosting efficiency? There's a company selling what it touts as an R-50 lid box kit. Thank you again!
@@TheAnxietyCloset It depends on the price of the kit and the type of board. I would not use white 'styrofoam', it is too brittle. You can buy two sheets of 1 inch rigid insulation board and a roll of foil tape for about $50 at one of the big box stores.
@@HouseDoctorRay thank you! Looks like a Lowe's trip is ahead for me
Shiny side should be facing radiation energy source typically the roof in souther California
True, but in the northern US it will be the other way around half of the year. It is not that critical; the key is stopping the airflow.
A company I just watched their video on youtube make an attic door that's 3" thick filled with foam insulation. I can't understand why all attic door companies don't make the door itself an insulating door. People wouldn't accept it on their front door and their attic door is mounted where all the heat goes first.
I'd say it's just simple ignorance.
People don't know how things work in general, we've become highly specialized workers.
How many sheets did it take for your project? How thick are the sheets? Thx
I doubled it so it took two full sheets. It comes in different thicknesses, I used 1".
@@HouseDoctorRay Thank you Sir. I’m going to follow your lead Sir.
What size staples did you use?
No staples. Just a lot of tape.
You sound like Heath Ledger Joker. That's not an insult.
None taken.
Thanks, Jimmy Kimmel!
🤣🤣🤣🤣
OMG
Is this a 1” board?
Yes, but you can get it it many different thicknesses.
I live in Texas and it’s 104 and I can see light all the way around my attic door! Send help ! :(
The truth is out there...
readme info lol well just meant when the attic light is on you can see into the attic with the door closed . There’s a huge gap all the way around my attic door is all.
@@Rose-sw7nr That is why you need to make a box to seal it up. Pull down stairs are almost impossible to seal around the panel.
Bence olmadı. Biraz yüksek bir muhafaza yapıp, üzerine strafor veya sunta üzerine strafor iyi olurdu. Bunu, kızaklı veya açılır kapanır yapabilirsin..Türkiye' den Selamlar ..
I’m trying to convince my parents to turn out attic into my room , my mom keeps saying that you can’t and I’m like . 😑 yes you can. Hopefully I convince them cause I have money I’m still saving up to be able to make it my dream room.
Never give up on your dreams!
House Doctor Ray , I was wondering, can you turn an attic into a room if it is a ladder to get up ? Or does it have to be a stair case?
@@sal1918 ladder works fine except the parents when i pulled mine up so they had to yell at me to let it down. mine was over our garage !
I think the Different sides has to do with Mold and Moisture
Could be. I'm not a polyisocyanurateologist.
Is this same in attics that get really hot? Just curious.
Just like a thermos; keeps things hot or cold. It stops the transfer of heat no matter which direction.
@@HouseDoctorRay so I couldn’t find 1 inch foam with foil. I got regular 1/2 inch polyiso or backer board. And used Smart Shield on top of it. Let’s see how it works.
Reinforced with foil tape and some screws.
You can always add another layer.
@@HouseDoctorRay I think I may. Last few hot days coming next week. I will see how the temps are near the door, I did use silicone on the seams for an airtight seal.
Went a little bit overboard but cutting airflow was a big mission of mine.
It's all about stopping the air.
You probably should engineer it with a proper rubbery seal all around the edge. Even though you think you've sealed it, you haven't really. It really needs to be airtight.
You're probably right. I'm on it.