Manual Vs Automatic Transmissions- Which Is Best For Your Hot Rod
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2022
- Boomer musclecar sensibilities dictate that a REAL car has three pedals. Modern realities prove that in the majority of cases, an automatic will get you down the track faster and with less carnage. We're making the switch on our car, and the key to making it work is a custom built torque converter.
Here's what you should know if you're building a car and trying to choose which type of trans will get you the best results.
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Manual transmission: more power to the wheels, better fuel economy, you can bump start it if your battery is low, they don't leave you stranded as often, you may loose a gear or a syncro, but when automatics fail you are usually stuck on the side of the road. Long live the manual!
I once, unknowingly, drove a stick nearly dry, probably 50+ miles with low or no fluid, smoke was coming out where the stupid dipstick used to live (rubber thing holding it shrunk, POS Cavalier) when I got home and popped the hood. I flushed it with ATF (a fair amount of glitter came out), put some thick shit in it, I think it was a bottle of Lucas trans fix, 1qt 20w50, and like half a bottle of STP to make up the rest, and beat on it another couple years before selling. Did you know those 2200 5 speed Cavaliers from the late 90s will bark the tires on hot dry pavement if you bang second hard enough?
Unless you burn the clutch lol
@@Broken_Yugo sorry but Manuel trans don't usually have dipstick you fill until it come out just like a diff so I will call bullshit on your little story
its harder to drink and smoke and drive at the same time tho
@@sb-di3of no you just bad at driving
Whenever someone tries to convince me I need to go auto or floppy paddle because they are consistently faster at the track I have to remind them that I have never in fact participated in high end competitive drag racing nor turned record breaking laps at Nurburgring, and neither have they, we live in Nebraska Daryl, we commute our beaters daily and sometimes drive in anger for fun....
One thing you have to keep in mind is if you lived your whole life in automatics, driving a manual is gonna seem like a chore to drive daily, but if you always had manual cars it’s just second nature, and if you aren’t in a manual you don’t know what to do with yourself making it uncomfortable lol
true. stop and go traffic and uphill stoplights is where a real manual shifter is separated from the rest. but when you've done it all your life, you don't even watch the tach, you just know when...and then you practice clutchless shifting to become Jedi master :)
@@MrSwinger1 only once 😜
So true! Both of my cars have manual transmissions and I don't even think about it. But when I drive someone else's automatic car, it feels weird and annoying. Especially newer cars with electronic throttles. A few days ago I took my neighbor's automatic Ford Fusion for a test drive after fixing some things and the first thing I thought to myself is "how can people stand driving these?" The electronic throttle and automatic trans feels so disconnected and laggy compared to what I'm used to and I kept wanting to shift it out of habit.
So true
@@MrSwinger1 yes I hate that every time a stop a reach for the clutch that is not there
Or on my daily 3 gear grind so a double clutch and when a use my s2000 I always double clutch 3 gear the first time a use it lol
I have battled with this concept for the last 25 years,I built a lot of vehicles and the stick cars are always more fun to me...
I grew up on manuals. Manuals give you a connection to the car that an automatic does not. I will say for me, I have come to realize that an automatic, especially for a classic, is a much simpler installation. Just 1 to 2 cables needed, no linkages, no extra pedal assembly to deal with, no big hole in the tunnel. Insides are just magical witchcraft i do not understand, but now days they are the easiest to come by in the junk yard and so many upgrades and support for them.
I'm 21 I grew up with automatics but lots of tractors and farm equipment. My favorite are twin sticks. I cooked the getrag 5 speed in my D350. I'm looking at swapping in an eaton roadranger. I love my Toronados TH425. Smooth quiet and can take a beating. I've gotten a tunnel ram and headers on it now. Im excited to get it going again. My point is there's purposes for each. If you don't care about money and parts. Go with what tickles your fancy
@@crazycoffee Im 30yrs old never driven an automatic but I live in a country where automatics were rare up until the last decade .... I know nothing about them except they seem more complicated to fix than a 4 or 5 speed which is easy to fix/modify for me. they might shift faster but unless you are competing in a straight line who cares about that? There are also some cool mods you can do to a manual like replacing the synchros with dog rings or fine tuning with an adjustable clutch..
@@davidgalea6113 Their not that bad. Auto's use hydrolic fluid to change the gears and manage downshifting. Once you have done one you can do most of them since they are all, for the most part the same. Keep in mind though there are various differences that you might need to know. As an example, the Ford Explorer has two bands that are controlled by servos that push in to stop a drum from spinning which will cause a gear change (which is normal to all automatics with bands). However, those cases are soft and the piston on the servo can wear out where it travels to hit the band. That requires a either a new case or a sleeve to fix.
A manual transmission is about the best theft deterrent around now. My '69 AMX has a 4-speed and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Better that than the BorgWarner AMC used then. My 68 390 AMX (red on red with white stripes, #1215) had one. The only good thing it was a lot easier to drive in traffic. And I mostly drove sticks up to about 83.
@@mpetersen6 Mine has the close-ratio T-10.
I choose a manual for several reasons and all of them revolve around being a daily driver. All vehicles I own are a daily driver first regardless of also wanting to race them as autocross or drag racing.
1- can't control what the transmission is doing. I got years of seeing it myself from vehicles owned by my parents as well as friends and eventually personal experience of this. Drives me nuts when I'm trying to go up a hill and the transmission keeps kicking up and down the gears because it doesn't know what the road is doing or what I'm wanting it to do. Another example is when an auto will kick down a gear when I didn't want it to because lower rpm with more throttle is more fuel efficient. I've verified this myself watching the fuel rate recorded by the ECU when I had an OBD2 vehicle. That one is being rebuilt now but currently I have a carbed motorcycle and an OBD1 car as a backup which has it's own electrical issues that multiple dealerships have no idea what's wrong, but it keeps going because it doesn't have nearly as much electrical barriers that would flat out stop the engine from running. Eventually I'll be converting it to a carb some day.
2- can't bump start it. Plenty of examples of this very thing getting me home vs stranded somewhere and needing to pay for a tow truck costing me money. I've had a starter fail already and the battery was fine.
3- Most important. I've fallen asleep at the wheel on multiple occasions when driving the automatic vehicles I've owned over the years only to wake up almost going off the road. This has never happened while driving a manual which is why for the past decade I've only owned manual vehicles and refuse to go back to an auto. My mind needs to be busy for me to stay awake after an hour or so of driving non stop.
A manual keeps u engaged in what u r doing. I tend to drift off in an auto.
My first car (a '51 Olds) had an automatic, but my second car was a '32 Ford Tudor, and had a non synchro 3 speed manual, so I not only had to learn to drive a stick, but I had to learn how to double clutch. Every car that I had after that was a stick right up until 2006, when I bought a car for my wife, who wanted an automatic. So all of my cars from 1963 until 2006 were sticks. My two hot rods both have 5 speed sticks in them. Long live standard transmissions!
The extra control over the car is what I enjoy about a manual transmission. They tend to do better with changing conditions because you can change how you put power to the ground. You can have a nice lumpy camshaft and the car is still drivable without chirping tires trying to take off
How would a "lumpy" cam make you chirp tires.
@@akassasin5768 you've never tried to street drive with all a stock converter and choppy camshaft with a good amount of overlap have you?
@@jeremypike9153 the right rear gear ratio generally clears all that up
@@jeremypike9153 Why would you be using a stock converter with a choppy cam in the first place??
@@cdglasser why would you be using the wrong transmission behind an engine in the first place? A manual is 100% versatile it will work behind an engine with the most radical of camshafts or a stock daily commuter. An automatic transmission requires you to set it up #1 not to destroy itself and #2 to work well in only 1 situation. Anyone who races an automatic only actually drove 1/2 of the car. There is much more skill involved when pushing a manual vehicle to it's limits.
Tony don't forget about the late lockup 727s, locking it to a 1:1 ratio once past 55 mph you can still get great cruising mpg.almost like an extra half a gear.
I've built lots of Chevys with 700R4s for this very reason. You get your cake and eat it too. Especially if you wire the lockup so you can control it manually. The non lockup 727s can be converted but it's not cheap. John Cope sells all the parts you need. I'm seriously considering going this direction with my project truck. It's the only option if I want it to be streeable with an auto.
Back when I was hard into street and strip with my Buick Grand National I locked the factory lock up converter at the track using a paper clip shoved into the ecm plug under the dash. It gave me about 2 tenths extra and a couple of mph. You could actually feel the car surge forward when the converter locked up 😎
Doesn't help you down low though.
@@TonysHotRodGarage My Hudson gets 27 MPG thanks to the 700R4, love it!
@@RustOnWheels they're a good transmission if you put 'em together right 👍
When you push all three pedals at once, the car takes a screen shot. 😉
Is that what that clicking sound is? XD
Starting to smell like excuses. 3 pedal cars forever!
The only problem with manuals is when you get high horsepower, like 700 at the wheels, the choice of clutch plates is limited to grabby materials and high pedal effort. For anything under 450 RWHP I still love that extra pedal.
I drive a manual well but love my turbo 350 with shift kit ect. I still love going through the paces in manual !
Manual is more fun, even if it's slower. I enjoy the connection with the car it gives.
Depends oh how you drive it might not be slower
When I was a kid messing around with hotrods on a low budget back in the '80s, the hot setup was to go to the junkyard and get a torque converter out of a 6-cylinder car. They would typically flash a little higher behind a v-8.
Most modernin v8 rwd converters are re stalled v6 fwd converters
I was in the market for a 73'-74' Charger last year and out of nowhere popped up a factory 4-speed car...1 in 396 in 73'! I daily this thing.. it's the most fun I've ever had behind a wheel and I couldn't imagine shoeing it with a three-speed slush box.
Hehe ,a bud had a lame smogged 75 nova with an auto.
We took all the crap off and swapped in a t-10.
Then the damn thing gave late 80s mustangs fits at the time.
No cams or crazy compression or wild intakes (we put a stock iron 4 barrel intake on) ,and it felt like it gained like 50hp.
Totally different car.
@@MrTheHillfolk Those stock 3 speed autos were programmed to shift at like 4500, may have gained 50hp just wringing the motor out farther.
I had a 1973 big block charger hp 400 it came with 3 speed auto with the slap stick shifter loved that car. It was stolen by a wrecker company employee off duty from my yard. The company had no knowledge of him picking up the car. Police said since I had turned in my plates for the car it isnt considered a stolen vechical but just stolen property.
The cop did say if I run across the car call a officer and they will escort me to the car to retrieve my property. I still have the title to this day.
For specific applications, automatics are OK. I still associate them with minivans that have distracted soccer moms at the wheel. One of the neat features of Bottle Rocket was that it had a manual transmission. I have no desire to own a car with an automatic transmission. Long live the stick.
Save the manual's
Yes!
When you drive a stick, you save gas, and there's also that Zen thing of becoming one with the car. You immerse yourself in the task at hand (driving). I like to be in the zone with everything, whether it's driving playing the guitar, using power tools and machinery or just taking a walk and feeding the birds.
The heightened level of awareness and being in the moment contributes greatly to the joy of being alive.
Unless I lose my left leg, I will choose a manual transmission. Slushbox's suck ! It's the entire reason I bought and still own a 2010 Tacoma and not a 2010 Tundra. Actually my Tacoma is equipped with a Clutch Start Cancel Switch so I can start it in gear and I am capable of shifting with out the clutch.
Also, a starter isn't absolutely necessary with a manual transmission. You just need to remember to shut it down up a grade or hill if you can't push it by yourself.
A well built auto is faster in a straight line. But nothing beats nailing a heel-toe downshift just before apex, then being in power for the hole shot, while most auto guys are waiting for the kick down.
@@Kenjh71 Sure let's see what 1g cornering does with a drag built auto. I'll see tail lights in my rear view.😉
No clutch!👍👍
Straight line is boring unless you have a purpose built drag car auto is the way to go but for a fun driver manual all the way
I will never own a automatic car
This is one of the reasons why I don't like electric car
@@zelenskysboot361 built a sequential trans or a dog box with a strain gauge shifter and enjoy no lift shift
They are the most consistent, not fastest .
I do prefer a manual.
And as a tech ,I know how an automatic works and I've redone a few.
Still, the damn thing does have a little voodoo inside that can leave ya stuck in an instant.
And it's always in the back of your mind when ya hit the gas: was that an extra 100-200rpm of slippage I just felt?
Meanwhile the guy with the slipping manual clutch poured a coca cola in the bell housing to get him home so he can order a new clutch.
@@jonathanlawson4667 This is completely untrue. Newer Mustang owners know this well.
@@jonathanlawson4667 you shatter a diaphragm spring in your forward clutch pack, you've lost forwards & have to drive home backwards, about 12mph. Which I did. And ordered a new spring, $3.10. But hey I saved a tow bill ! manuals are going to cost less every time.
@@jonathanlawson4667 very true with the Fords lol, they all hold a boatload of heat and their life is limited at best. I've had some built transmissions require a lift back home but I beat on them beyond being upset when they finally did..hahaha! Here's the bottom line with an automatic; if they're built to race, and the convertor is quality+driver acquainted...They'll beat a stick EVERY TIME! Uncle Tony is no dumb dumb...he knows this! Sticks are more fun, its true.. but a guy has to be on his game like Ronnie Sox to edge out an automatic thats built to race! Like Uncle Tony said...once the transmission is in...it'll be the last of his worries which will allow him to focus on driving away from Casper! ;)
Dude, it's 2022! Get with the times. We pour Mountain Dew Baja Blast into our bell housings these days.... It's not the 60s when Coke was king, and it's definitely not the 70s, where you'd use Tab or Fresca. Lol
Manual is more fun auto is more consistent. Also lockup has changed the game in street driving hi stall converters.
Manual is more on the driver. They can be very consistent that is driver dependent. Auto is more likely to be consistent because it takes the driver factor out of it.
8
@@witchdoctor88 88888888888n8
Hot rods require three items to be true hot rods, three pedals, finned aluminum, and deep dish mags.
Hot Rod/Musscle Car....It has to be a manual to really have fun IMO
Race Car.....automatic to be competitive.
I will never own an old street machine without a 4 speed.
NEVER!!!
I'm a Boomer and I can't think of many applications where manual transmissions are better than automatics except one, and that application is "Fun". Call me crazy, but I just have more fun driving a manual, and that includes both on road and off road. I may be slower, less capable and I may be thinking and working harder, but that's fine because I'm having more fun. If that's a mistake, I'm willing to live with it. But obviously I'm not racing or competing in any way.
Amen!
Here, here!...ditto!
You can be fast with a stick car it's all about the driver in a manual. The only way an auto is faster than a well driven manual is when built and stalled and all that good stuff. The real modern autos have such gearing advantage some of those are faster stock for stock. You can get within striking distance of the et of an auto in a well driven manual. It's a lost art these days but there are still some of us old school gear bangers around that it is second nature to.
One other situation where a manual is better, is a deterrent for thieves! Many can’t drive manuals 😂
I chose a 6 Speed Manual with my 5.7 09 R/T Challenger. I have 205000 miles on it. And I have the same clutch in it that it came with. Engine still runs strong. I have a few videos of me at ZMax running 13.4 at 106 mph. Stock. I have added open air cleaner and 93 octane tune
Uncle Tony you missed the best thing about a stick it’s just plain FUN. I love driving my ZO6 with launch control I can’t imagine it with an automatic . 2nd gear will make your friend sitting next to you yell please slow down. To feel the power coming through the shifter is just a real joy.
You told me truth about about both tyranny. I dare anyone to say different. I raced both and worked/tuned both. I have seen street driven cars, with high stall automatic, have blue converters on the outside. Conversely, I have ruined everything from the flywheel back in manual cars.
Life is what it is
Mikel
60yo man finally put his trust in a 50yo transmission
I kid cuz I like ya Tony!
Automatic transmissions scare the daylights out of me. My first vehicle was a stick and many many to follow. The first auto I ever owned was a dodge Dakota with an already rebuilt trans. It lasted about 6 months and the trans went out and cost me several grand to have rebuilt. I’ll gladly spend an afternoon and a few hundred dollars replacing the clutch in a stick before messing with expensive slush boxes. Too bad sticks are getting hard to find.
I absolutely love UTG!!!! Im 58 years young. Lol. I remember alot of what tony talks about. Good oldays 🙏🏻💯🙏🏻💯🙏🏻💯
as a kid with 4 brothers we were always building cars ,mainly Ford as they were the most popular Down Under ,Windsor top loader 9 out back was the standard foundation ,automatic transmission was just RIDICULOUS ,fast forward 2022 my boys are building LS twin turbo Glide or turbo 400 transmission 3500 4000 stall hovering near 650/800 horsepower daily driver now thats RIDICULOUS ,the boys and i love your channel mate
Technology has come a long way. Automatic is faster, but manual is reliable.
After 4 automatics in 3 years in my 7.3 f350, I finally said the hell with it and swapped a 6 speed manual in er. I much prefer an auto in my truck, but even more so I prefer reliability.
Gotta say I love my 4 speed toploader in the 65 mustang though.
Tony, great video as always.
I was in Tennessee visiting Dewayne from dry creek wrangler school and shot up to Nashville to pick up a rear end. Passed your town and said, "damn I wish I could stop by and kick it."
40 years ago I wanted to replace the auto in my Cougar with a 4 speed. Local speed shop owner convinced me to change the rear gear and add a shift kit & converter to the trans. Glad I listened.
Once you learn, this is the end. Most boomers never learned this. They have no clue what a shift kit and high stall does, other than when you blow their doors off, while you snap into gear while they'll playing footsy with themselves lol.
@@Warrior_Resisting_Colonialism When you blow their doors off with the antique transmission they thought was the boat anchor oily door stop piece!
@@Warrior_Resisting_Colonialism Boomers invented that stuff in the 1960's...ya might want a history lesson .
@@duncandmcgrath6290 You must of missed a key word there. I'll help ya out: "Most." You apparently, mistakenly read "all."
Automajics are good for straight lines. But manuals have their uses in roads with curves and up down hills. There are times when paddle shift won't work when you have a use for it to do that.
Some thing you should not do with AWD or FWD. That some thing is to add more braking to the rear axle. I have made automatics do that, but today? Good luck.
Yes I did know about high stall. Changing ratios inside the automatic. Matching the axle ratio to the track and engine. Drag race a stick, no way.
But I never ever liked a motor cycle with a automatic transmission. Pretty much defeats the purpose of riding.
I am a boomer that has had a 66 New Yorker and a 66 Charger 4 speed. One was for fun and the other was for the women to ride in. Both were 440s
One also had loud exhaust that scairy dedded the horses and women. It also was a cop caller.
Still remember my dad ( _requiescat in pace_ , Dad) using the term "sludge pump" for automatics, though he drove them in most of our family cars after the '64 Impala SS.
Dad also liked to talk about the tradeoffs involved in flywheels with a manual: a light flywheel lets the engine raise revs faster, but a heavy one will keep revs up while the clutch is in for a shift. I miss driving a stick (last one I had was a 2000 Cavalier I bought new and drove to 2008 or thereabouts).
Love both. I prefer taking my Auto-car into the city where there's loads of stop & go. In my hobby-car I prefer manual to feel the car better, and being more involved in my driving. 2005 Tahoe for a daily and 87 Iroc-Z with manual on twisty roads and more joyful & intense driving. Don't hate me for having Chevys lol, I love all brands of American cars and my Pa has a 75 Charger.
Hiya UT from Norway
Slipper clutches with adjustable weights are becoming the norm in the drag racing stick game
I shared this on Facebook, especially for my brother in PA. He is going to go to an automatic in his 67 post car for pretty much the same reason, breaking stuff. He is five years younger than we are. You are only 8 days older than me, so we grew up in the same time. Lucille will always have 3 pedals. I found another A body here in Germany for her old motor.. It will be built full race, and with... wait for it... An automatic transmission. Race only. Thanks for the info. On every automatic transmission, I install an oil cooler.
Almost every of the 42 vehicles I’ve owned were manual transmission. If the battery is weak or the starter is bad it can be rolled down an incline or pulled with another vehicle to start.
I still remember rebuilding one of those old 727's in auto shop class 20 years ago. All the parts for rebuild were SUPER cheap. Like
@@kennywhiddon1497 Powerglide was WELL before my time. I have been wrenching for 25 years, so my early days I was doing 4l60, Aod-e, 4t65. 727 was in a well used Dodge pickup I picked up for nothing.
Powerglide was an auto beast. 400 was a great auto as well. . Stick man
@@zelenskysboot361 the TH400 eats up an extra 28hp or so, just in parasitic loss.
TH 350 is less hungry.
I had a big block 73 charger , got tired of no reverse and decided to rebuild the 727 my self. Once I figured out how to get the rear tail housing off it wasnt bad had to make a clutch spring compressor but wasnt bad at all. Ps anyone doing a 727 the tailhousing snap ring is under a plate where rear trans mount goes. Lol hopefully saves someone some frustration. Lol
A good converter, trans brake and a gated shifter is fun.
But nothing beats an old muscle car with a manual.
Buddy your an encyclopida of knowledge and the world needs more Uncle Tonys
please keep this content coming. its invaluable. all of it. thanks for your time. 👍
One of the cool ones was the Switch Pitch from GM. Fairly high stall converter but variable sift points depending on driver selection. It would cruise OK, and accelerate pretty good too (on the street) 😊
Got one installed on a 455 powered Olds 442 but its manually activated (1800 and 3300 stall speed). Originally they were designed to switched between two stall speeds by how hard you got on the gas, since GM offered 2 speed automatics in heavy cars with like a 1.48:1 ratio first gear. Hurst Olds totally dropped the ball by not finding the early 1960's units and rebuilding them to go in their cars. Though they really shine on solid lifter 427 Chevies that want to be wound like an alarm clock, torquey 455 GM engines don't really put it to full use since they want to shift at 5,500 rpm so you have to cam appropriately.
@@albertgaspar627 455's were great engines, but Olds should have kept the 425 around for their muscle cars. With a 3.975 stroke it has a lot more HP potential than it's 4.250 steam engine stroke big brother. The early Olds 400's ('65-67) had the same 3.975 stroke and would turn 6,800 rpm fairly easy.
@@Freedomquest08 Right on all counts. the Olds 455 is a locomotive engine, and decades ago when you could land a gutluss Cutlass for cheap, you got a nice ride, best handling of the A bodies with 442 sway bars tossed in (buick GS was second, and when DeLorean left Pontiac in 1970, they were finally allowed to put in rear sway bars) and a nice interior compared to say, a 307 Malibu most people scooped up from some old lady for an SS clone. Marlin Davis in HRM had the article "Junkyard Dog" to let the secret out--you could build a 13 second car with OEM stuff and aftermarket intake and headers and turn low rpms on the street for double digit gas mileage using a 455 that would have low mileage, great service from its wealthy owner, and probably go for $50-100.
But folks raised on Chevies wanted something that went past 5,500 rpm. Finding a forged crank 455 is difficult, you only had the Toronados and those FWD GM RV airbagged coaches using the 390hp engine and the Hurst Olds. The 425 had forged cranks (I have two of these engines and 2 455's, one in use at 400 hp). As you said, in 1968 the 400 went from a small bore 425 to a small bore 455 (got one as well--when BOP stuff is cheap, i nab it).
I also do Pontiacs, there was another easy 13 car you could slap together with OEM junkyard parts--i used the exhaust manifold from a 1971 2 bbl 400 and cut it down its length and ported it like a cylinder head then welded it back together again just to be cheap (I wasn't winding up that engine either, so it did ok for a throw together).
@@albertgaspar627
I grew up in a pretty wild neighborhood in the '70's where everyone had a fast car. The one that stood out was a '63 Cutlass that a guy built for his son. He did a huge amount of work to that car...put a 425 and Ford 9 inch in it, redone the trans tunnel, I think steering box, and everything it took to make it work. It was by far the fastest car around and was a legend while it lasted. The kid wasn't mature enough to have a car like that and within about 4 months he totally destroyed it, which included rolling it (it still ran for awhile after that). That car made me a life long believer in Olds power though.
I've owned several Cutlass's through the years. I currently have a '55 394 swapped Super 88 (difficult swap for what looks like a bolt in). The 394 also shares the same bore size as the 455. I am impressed with the 394 though...it was worth the effort.
@@Freedomquest08 Boy that is a lot of work--I used to have an assistant manager who landed a two door Buick version--typical little ol' lady car. It was V8 powered so it was probably a Skylark not the Special. I believe up until 1964's perimeter frame model, those BOP cars were built on a Corvair chassis (fun fact, Chevy came up with the name Corvair from CORVette and bel AIR). but there was a Pontiac Tempest that got a 421 for racing, no doubt the power to weight ratio was impressive. Hot rodders back in the day loved the Corvair steering box, but it was designed for a front end with no engine weight to it, I suspect the BOP cars got a different setup. considering the turbo option that came with Buick and Oldsmobiles, I always thought GM should have brought these vehicles back after 1973's gas crisis rather than the big barge crap they tried to compete with smaller import cars.
moving on, that 394 was a great engine for its time. Many drag racers would pick one up in a junkyard (along with 430 Lincoln engines) stab in an Isky cam and maybe bolt on a GMC blower conversion, and go racing in a Willys or something equally light until the engine blew and they went back for another one. It would have made a good rival to the early GTO, just like Buick used the 401 nailhead initially to get under the 400 cid limit. But in the case of both engines, Olds and Buick respectively came out with lighter V8 designs so they went with that.
while i sneered about "gutlass cutlass" i really should give the small block Olds some credit. the 330 used with a cop car option in 1964 wasn't terrible, and Roger Huntington compared the Ram Rod option in an F85 stripper model to Chevy's Z28. The combination of 4-4-2 suspension and lightweight screamer that turned into the W31 made for an unsung hero, and if you really ordered up stiff gearing in the rear a light W31 could give some big blocks an issue, since most big block muscle cars out there were the medium duty stuff--LS5 Chevies instead of rarer LS6's, 390 Fords instead of expensive side oiler 427's, 350 hp 396's rather than the 425 and so on.
For about 25 years I have been using high stall converters with relatively long gears in the street. So far no problems. With a 6000+ stall the rpm in the streets very seldom goes over 3000 in regular traffic. But there are differencies in the converters, how they act below the stall. Some are tight, some slip like hell. The first ones work well in the streets, the latter one may be better for racing. When the engine power goes up, the more is required from the converter. Stay away from the bulk "stall" converters. If a manufacturer sells a converter by stall speed, without telling how much torque, weight & gears is it rated at, don't buy it. Torque converter is maybe the most important part in a car with an automatic transmission. Get a custom one for Your application from a known, quality source, and you'll be happy. The price difference between a bulk converter and a custom is well worth it. But at least in anything under 700 hp the manual is way more fun. But they do break parts, tend to cost more, and need way more attention than an automatic.
I’ve got 2.73s & TH400 in my 79 stepside. My stall converter stalls around 4,300 rpm at full throttle. It’s honestly a joy to drive. Haven’t had any issues so far, cruises around 2,500-2,700 rpm at 60-65. The second you stab the throttle that sucker screams.
Thanks for this. I did complain when you first announced the auto but I get it now. I was thinking more from the standpoint of a street machine than a drag car.
I come from the old school of thinking. I've always had manual transmissions. I've always plowed snow with manuals. I was involved in both circle track and road course racing. Both disciplines used manuals. My Dad drove trucks back when they had the twin sticks. They gave better control and fuel mileage. You could downshift and use engine braking to scrub off speed. I used to tow my racecar trailer with a 300 6 4 spd F150. Never went through brakes like today's auto trans equipped trucks. The only time the manual got cumbersome was stop and go traffic on the highway. That's the only time I would appreciate an A/T. Most of the major auto manufacturers have dropped the manual transmission option. Luckily I'm getting older (lazier)and the automatics are looking better and better but I do miss ripping through the gears.
Nowadays a manual transmission is basically an anti-theft device to deter millennial car thieves.
LOL I say that all the time! I don't even pull the keys or roll up my windows in my old trucks, I know that between the manual trans and the manual choke, it's not going anywhere! They'll look for something easier and more valuable to steal.
totally true. put in a SAAB ignition system and you got all bases covered.
Most kids my age know how to drive manual so...millennials is kinda dumb
Depends on where you are. Out here in the sticks most people can drive stick, even younger teens as we all grew up on dirtbikes and race quads
Lol until you realize you can just put it in neutral and push it on a trailer.
Can’t beleive you sold out on the stick that was the coolest part of the car
a stick has saved my life more times than I can remember. As a road racer (track), a stick allows me to control the way the back end of the car moves around more than using the brake. To use an uncle tony term, it adds another tool in your tool box when you are driving fast on the track or the street. One example is a dog leg turn (can't be done with an automatic). They're for old ladies and you might as well be playing a video game.
For my Chevelle, I made the decision to switch years ago and only memory of the orig. HD clutch (396 BB) was uncontrollable shaky leg after 45 minutes of stop-go traffic. When I upgraded to a 502, I sold off the 4 speed. My Art Carr overdrive automatic with 3,000 stall and B&M shift kit is perfection behind my 502. When I changed over, it was thereafter exceptional. Flawless and quick shifting (RPM's don't even change) and with lockup, get 19 mpg with 850 carb. I can bury the Autometer Phantom speedo and still have RPM's since it doesn't kickdown. But for my smaller cars, manual!
Preach it, brother! Nice to see another guy with an old GM A-body, big block, and 4-speed auto. In my case it's a Buick Skylark with a Buick 470 and an Extreme Automatics 200-4R transmission with B&M Quick Silver shifter. With lockup, it cruises the interstate at 70 MPH at just 2400 RPMs, flashes to over 3200 RPM on the drag strip, and I can shift it manually any time I want to.
@@cdglasser Oh yeah, good setup! My older broski had a 71 convertible in the 90's. The only way I keep the front end down over 140mph is a GSX spoiler from Poston. I have a couple of small Buick 215's building here for my Opel Manta and sport wagon projects. But 2004r 👏👍
Uncle Tony is an old school gearhead - and the "supply chain" is running low on old-school gearheads.
He likes to feather away from stoplights or slam gears when he wants. He sets his points with a matchbook cover and has a roll of duct tape, screwdrivers, some sockets with a ratchet, and a few used belts along with an old spare fuel pump rolled up in a faded, grease-stained pink towel in the trunk.
Love your vids, Tony. Whether auto or manual is preferable also depends on what realm of car culture you're talking about. When it comes to JDM cars, it's stick shift or nothing as far as I'm concerned. A well tuned and well modified manual with good tires and a good driver can still be effective in a race.
A must have converted like 5 civic to manual anyway these automatic trans are not that good and always blow lol
@@legros731 Yeah they're known to be pretty bad. A manual civic is the perfect commuter car imho.
The 65-67 gm switch pitch variable vane was a great choice ...I think it was designed to get the full sized cars going from a stop, but luckily they also put in a lot of 442's and 330 cutlass supremes. Very cool concept
Perfect timing! Need something to listen to whilst tearing an old Carter AFB apart.
Ripping gears is fun, that's all the justification I need. One of these days I fully intend to get a Jericho road race 4 speed and stick it in a cheap 70s nova or whatever just for the sake of beating on it.
We had a guy at our local 1/4 mile clay oval that I used to tech inspect at. He was always tinkering. Sometimes he would go like hell and other times he couldn't complete a race. It became a meme that we referred to as tinker-itis, smart guy but his own worst enemy more often than not. Your tinkering is different. You are more like a surgeon trying to perfect every last detail. He would fuss with stuff that was working perfectly and his reliability went south.
Fantastic video, man. I spent so much money on converters trying to get it right with my Dart Swinger, last of them being a custom $1200 ATI unit. Didn't even come close to how it was supposed to be based on my conversation with the builder, I asked for a tight unit and he built me a 5000 stall, saying that was as tight as he could go. I'm now shopping for a Tremec manual.
That's a terrible experience, you got schmoozed. My Art Carr overdrive automatic with 3,000 stall and B&M shift kit is perfection behind my 502. First three years had a 4 speed manual and it was punishment physically for daily driving in California. When I changed over, it was exceptional. Flawless and quick shifting (RPM's don't even change) and with lockup, get 19 mpg with 850 carb.
Tony....my swinger was so much fun to drive 4sp...you drove it..( s.i)
.I broke the brass fork 1st to 2nd...only had 3rd and 4th..made it home...easy fix...now it's an auto...always worried about heat and leaks...deeper pan and all..manual ...battery dead...no worries...and on highway it's a pleasure...with the steeper gears
One of your best videos. Absolutely nailed it!
This is a great subject. I'm smack in the middle of the boomer generation and own four vehicles, all manual trans. When I was first beginning to drive, automatics just weren't cool and the auto in my first car, a '62 Galaxie convertible inherited from my parents was a failing slush-box. I have had some great cars with automatics but will cling to my manuals until I can no longer drive them.
Great explanation of stick vs. automatic transmissions. Also, looking forward to your torque converter deep dive video. 👍
You don't have to sell your converter, the shop that built it can open it & restall when you change setups for around $200-400
As far as converters being expensive, they cost about the same as a GOOD multi disk clutch.
And a 3500 stall isn't going to burn up being street driven. The stall isn't "free wheel" like a on/off switch. The coupling point varies with load, and when you're cruising at 55 or 70mph the load is very low. Just keep an eye on trans temp and run a GOOD cooler with a fan
Like you, I am up a few years. I have been auto for a little while now and am not looking back, welcome to the Auto life :D
ATI in baltimore is still one of my go to companies for GM stuff. Hughes is great, as well as PTC and list goes on and on. Tony is right about spending the money for the right converter when it's time to go quick and fast.
really enjoy your video's. Wondered if you have ever done one on cams, specifically effects of lift and duration on power curve.
Thanks for posting I have learned a lot. Especially on the use of bondo to solve so many problems
I had a 1971 Super Bee. Every Friday at lunch break I would buy 10 gallons of Cam 2 racing fuel $ 3.70 a gallon. Also at 6:30 I would remove the 3.55 and put the 5.12 in. With the 18 spline A 833, I had a BALL!
I remember in the early 60's they were testing 2 Dodge cars 426 wedge engines one had a push button the other a stick and the 1/4 mile times were very close it surprised me and shattered my thoughts about the advantage of the 4 spd. over the auto. I did a lot with valve bodies and clutch clearances snap rings bands servo's and governors and you can modify auto's to do what you want. I used to work on a 1970 Hemi Cuda 426 with a Dana 4:10 That converter from the factory would take off at 3500 RPM's . That car could Boogie for a 4000 pounder and even the guy with the Yenko Camaro had to admit that car was real fast. The guy would beat most bikes in the day. I think it's a toss up between auto and stick and I worked on just about everything back in those days.
I didn't watch the video yet because i "knew" where it was going, but as a middle aged hot rodder, the fact is fighting the automatic transmission is like fighting the LS engine swap. technology does not sleep.
Tony, your lighting looks fantastic!
36 year old boomer here.
I think you nailed it, to me it was a cost factor when i was younger.
An auto failure was more expensive than a burnt clutch.
Its very different nowadays.
I've pushed and clutch started a stick. I had to get to work
I learned to drive a stick in a 1975 Vega GT with a 350 SBC, that car ripped! My friend back then did a lot of work to make it fit with an old Muncie 4 speed and bracing so it would not twist like a pretzel. 😂Good times, I miss them. I miss banging gears, clutch dumps and smokey burnouts, but I do not miss the traffic violation tickets. Looking into converting my 1991 C1500 2wd, 350sbc longbed to manual. Had a 1987 Z24 5 speed, that little V6 ripped, all I did was port the heads and install better head gaskets.
I TOTALLY CALLED IT..
I knew he would be putting a slush box in BR before he races Casper.
I'm not %100 but I think I commented as much way back after the call out was announced. 🏆
Yay for me.
Control is better with a manual - yes. Being able to slow down properly is a big plus - yes. But here in the south one thing that I find is not much discussed - the difference in engine cooling system efficiency for service life longevity. I don't have an overheating hydraulic pump trying to cook my engine. And let's face it - beats an alarm system these days.
I've driven and raced 8 second 1/4 miles cars with automatics. None of those cars made me giggle like driving my 12 second stick car. Just put an adjustable clutch and a G-force 4 speed in it and I can't wait to take it out and bang the gears.
Hi Tony I am a boomer. and I distrust automatic transmissions for street strip in the 70s a 4 speed is the best . i have blown up many auto transmissions. and my M22 never let me down. the only downside at that time is that you needed a strong left foot. even today. I would take the 4 speed hands down. and I like the control.and with the addition of hydraulic slave systems
it makes it effortless on the left foot and its fun.
My first car, a 1953 Olds 88 2 door with a 303 cu in V-8 and a three speed on the column. Great first car. First new car a 67 GTO factory order 4 speed. Kept the GTO 43 years. Today I’m driving a 99 Silverado with 4L60e. I’ve gotten used to the automatic but think the Silverado would be a better truck with a 6 speed manual. I loved driving the GTO 4 speed. I honestly believe the driver has better control of a manual transmission car. I would agree, automatics have come a long way, but for driver enjoyment and involvement I’d always drive a manual transmission. For the record, I went through a lot of rear tires, clutches and universal joints on the GTO.
I feel your distrust and pain but good luck with your build. Awesome insight!!
Street fun car stick is fine, I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on sticks of all kinds, from 3 on the tree to 13speed road rangers. Now racing, drag racing, auto is the only choice has been for decades. They are consistent, able to be tuned to do what and when you want it, things like a transbrake and computers change the game. Even a mild street strip car with an off-the-shelf converter and shift kit will shock the 4-speed crowd
Understand both , love both .
I did the muncie behind the small block chevy until I broke the main shaft. That was after a center section and a housing and a clutch. Now I'm using a th400 with a protorque bolt together 8 in mechanical diode converter. If I change combinations I can adjust the converter with a different stator. Currently 5200 stall 650hp 9x28 radial 1.40 60' at 3700lbs. The right converter makes a big difference
I use to have 73 Baracuda with a 3 speed. Had a 318 , and Heddman Headers, with hemi mufflers. Fun to drive!
Have a C6 in my 68 F100 with a shift kit, B&M deep transmission pan for extra fluid, happy as a clam
I had recently taken a TCI 350 street fighter out of my 454 Camaro and replaced it with a Tremec 600 TKO 5 speed. I had a stick in most of my cars and trucks, I just love it. What can I say. It chapped my ass when they told me my 09 Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi was automatic only. They don't make them like that anymore, with a stick.
@@jonathanlawson4667 I'm pretty much below the 1000HP cert.
For sure Tony. My first car was a manual trans. I like shifting for myself anyway, more control, more fun. I took the auto trans out of my '96 F 350 pickup and installed a ZF-5. Both cost the same to rebuild ($4,000). I can rebuild the ZF-5, not so sure about the E4OD. I had to rebuild the ZF-5 on my '91 F2560 7.3 diesel, but only after 1.34 million kms. I don't know of an automatic that will last that long. The 7.3 is still going strong too with only consumables replaced.
Personally, I don't trust anything without 3 pedals. That being said, putting a manual in a drag car these days is like bringing a spork to a gunfight.
I always run an external transmission cooler on my automatics. also for performance I do the shift kits or full manual valvebody
I run an external cooler, totally disconnected from the radiator along with a thermostatically fan. Most run a an external cooler through the radiator which only cools the fluid down about 10 degrees and it's always fighting heat from the radiator. Others will install a cooler disconnected from the radiator but without a fan, the trans will quickly overheat at low speeds or sitting at an idle on a hot day. The adjustable thermotical fan is key. Being disconnected from the radiator allows me to run average temps in the 140F range which is 60 degrees cooler than the factory setup running it through the radiator.
In the 60s and 70s you had two choices for automatic transmissions, 2 speed and 3 speed. On top of that, as Tony said you had to deal with properly selecting the right converter and it was expensive. That is why manual transmissions were always faster but quarter mile times were not as consistent.
Most street/ strip guys were more interested in the lower bragging right time slips also. Now days it has flipped, you can get faster 1/4 miles and be more consistent with an automatic. The downside, as Tony mentioned, if you go radical with the engine build, your automatic is useless on the street but you could still drive it with a manual.
I had a 67 Dodge Dart GTS 383 originally. It ate a rod so I swapped in a 68 440 Magnum, later it got worked heards trw pistons, isky SS cam and an aftermarket 6 pack Edelbrock Aluminum intake with three Holley 500 dueces on a progressive mechanical linkage. Rear was 8 3/4 suregrip 3.91 SS springs Pinon snubber trans Hemi 727 B torqueflite built by B&M. It was a monster.
I had a stroked 440, up to 512 cubes, with the same carb setup and it was a serious tire shredding monster. The only issue that I had was keeping fuel in it because it had a serious drinking problem whenever I stuck my foot deep into the carburettors. Like 6 mpg serious. Still sorry I don't still own it. Watching smoke coming off the tires when it was hit hard at 65 mph was just awesome.
I'd watch the hell out of a conversation with Uncle Tony and Richard from Precision Transmission
I'm of the age that I prefer a manual transmission, but usually everything is automatic nowadays. I prefer English standard measurements but can use metric. Tony's right about the racing logistics but for me it's beauty in the simplicity of things
Definitely want to see the torque converter vid!
you could also add a heavier fly wheel on a manual. I heard the ramchargers would neutral drop torque flights from time to time, because of how hard it was to get the car in the rpm range.
Tony I remember back in the mid 1960s SUPER STOCK the 426 Mopars with TF, put a lot of 409 Chevy 4sp cars on the trailer. ditto on 406 Fords
Great info love it when you talk tech history. There is a lot of voodoo in those wet clutch systems.
Tony grew up in the 60's and there were guys out there who had contacts with machine shops here in North Central Ohio. What a hot setup on a torque converter was relative simple but intensive to detail. Local guy would split the torque converter at the weld. Once parted then a simple jig tool was applied, basically the stator was bent with a simple tool and you simply worked around the circle and put all at the same angle then you simply stick back on the lathe and align the split converter then weld away. Did require ballance though. Took some experience with trial and error. The problem was you needed a rather large diamater lathe, 12" or so and had to fabricate all of your own tools then learn how to ballance. Still I like the old 4 speed but you gotta know how to drive or you will make a bunch of small parts and pieces.
Love your educational vids, I usually end up with a deeper understanding of some random subject that I knew a little about before and you make it interesting...That being said WTH happened to your glasses???
I'm Gen X, five 5spds and one 4spd sitting in the driveway, only slush box I own is a 727 in my Scout II, there's a Warner T-19 sitting on the floor in the garage to replace it with.
Second thinking my 65 mustang purchase I spent 3 months look for. One of the major "must haves" was a 4 or 5 speed. (Not really) Clutch life!
Raced 4 speeds for 25 years I have cracked windshields,blew rear ends Dana 60s as well,twisted driveshafts in half,blew the trans itself,flywheels, and who knows what else. But I love the sticks what can I say.
For the off road, and work trucks i mess with the stock auto, or stick is fine. My 78 bronco with the stock converter and c6 with a shift kit, will do the same work and go the same places offroad, that my 150 with a 5 speed will do.