When Good Projects Go Weird - Why We Stepped Away From Mission Impossible
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- It started with a pretty simple premise. Take a common low performance engine, and using only stock parts, maximize every aspect of the engine and attempt to generate one HP per cubic inch.
But this experiment of applying science and trickery to a stock engine quickly evolved into a situation where those stock parts were being replaced with better and even aftermarket substitutes thus rendering the original concept obsolete.
Andy's video: • MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: 31...
MERCHANDISE:
Get Your UTG T-Shirts Here: uncletonysgara...
Get Your UTG Stickers Here: uncletonysgara...
OUR STORE: uncletonysgara...
I was under the assumption that you built the 318 that went to nicks garage. Everyone was saying how much of a turd it was and i couldn't understand. Nick didnt even explain in the video this is something y'all slapped together in 14 hours. For onlyb14 hours worth of work i think it worked out fine. I dont like being misled, thank you for the explanation of all of this.
Lots of people are under that assumption!
Yes, it was a turd! But, I had zero control over the parts involved, and was only one member of a team of four doing the build. I myself spent 8 of those 14 hours just porting heads.
Nick didn't explain a LOT of things in his presentation and rather than just go full send on the dyno as was originally agreed to, he aborted due to low oil pressure concerns and turned it into an entirely different thing.
Yes, I caught a bunch of flack from everything that transpired, but those who watched the original live (including Nick) knew exactly what had gone down.
That said, there's nothing I could have or would have done differently.
It's unfortunate that the whole 318 video basically showcased the lack of skills and knowledge of the rest of the team. Thank God there was no UA-cam around when I was in my teens. I would have been trolled into oblivion. I did enjoy that day though. The UA-cam experience for me is more than just the content. It's also the banter and camaraderie in the comments
@UncleTonysGarage so you couldn't have or wouldn't have maybe cleaned some things...that was out of your control and time too I guess😂 no excuse for all the dirt and metal in the motor sorry dude
No one is making any excuses...I did what I could do. If you had watched the live, you would have seen me repeatedly telling the other parties to clean...clean clean clean. Throughout the day I was involved with other more involved tasks, and I did clean each of the parts I worked with as I went along, but had no control over what others were doing. At the end, we simply ran out of day and sent what we had assembled.
If you had watched the live, you also would have seen me talking directly to 'Nick telling him how filthy everything was...I believe I was tightening down the intake manifold as I did that. Of course, that must have slipped Nick's mind when he made his video, because he seemed to surprised by it all....funny how that works.
Once again, I wouldn't and couldn't do anything differently.
@@UncleTonysGarage one old new York hot rodder stuck with a few future UA-cam stars lol. I lived around a few Italian street racers in the 70s. Arrogant fucks but worth listening to at the time. The grandmother of one would behead chickens in their front yard while we worked on his nova in the backyard. Again, thank God we weren't able to film our escapades. Lots of learning involved. Some kids need to learn to start at the bottom with ears open and mouths shut.
It sounds like the good old fashioned too many chefs in the kitchen spoil the sauce.
ding-ding-ding~!!!!!
yep, in the military it's called "mission creep". in this case, everyone had an agenda to make their channel get more clicks. but let's be honest about David Vizard--this guy has written articles on how to modify oil pumps for power, header designs, etc. you're going to stick him with a 318 and an intake and cam swap? that's too basic for a guy like that. and he turned it into a charity donation that (if memory serves) had to do with his daughter. so, in a way, he really was the wrong guy--it's like asking a NASA rocket scientist to figure out the tip on the Doordash bill.
wrong......nope. sorry.@@alertgasper
@@ssnerd583 how so?
if you cant figure THAT out, then you fail to comprehend the ORIGINAL goal that Tony wanted to achieve and WHY.
bloody hell but DV is EXACTLY the guy you would want on your mission team.@@alertgasper
Yup I lost interest with it once it morphed too.
I was interested before for the budget idea.
That is what makes it interesting for me or you might as well get the credit card and summit catalog.
This is how I end up working alone on projects... on my own it's a lot easier to say "no, I'm not adding that" vs. if someone else on their own initiative starts adding to the work.
Not many people want to take on projects with me. The projects I do are huge (in their own way), and its my vision, which is usually quite short of the multimillion dollar projects other people envision. I want a dragstrip up here, a private stretch of pavement we can race on. Everyone else thinks we need to build Zmax or Great Lakes dragway. I just want simple 1/8 mile, grudge racing like in South Carolina at the outlaw tracks. If I got 20 guys together with the same vision, we could make it happen in a summer. Problem is, project creep...
I don't like working with others on my own projects because, I don't like them talking me into or out of my plans. If you listen to them and things go south, one of two things usually happen:
1) you never see them again so you can't tell them, what a Drano abortion it turned out to be; or 2) if you get to tell them then they say "well, you didn't have to listen!" There's almost never a 3) where you get to tell them and they say "sorry to hear that; maybe we should've done it your way after all."
Yeah....the whole thing usually goes sideways at some point when somebody looses the original idea and the whole thing is now.....gone sideways.
Had that happen on a computer project, once.....
"A Camel is a horse-built by a committee."
You should try creating art with others.. 😂
To be honest, I was really excited about this project, especially because here in Brazil, we only have the 318 and all the aftermarket parts are so expensive. It would help a lot, but anyways thank you so much for all the information in this channel, and to consider the average guy. God bless you!
You know I never thought about that aspect of it but you are completely right. I guess I don't actually know enough about other automotive markets in the world to really give it full thought. Thank you for pulling my head out
@TA_Plus_Hemi you're welcome, brother. Sometimes, I see people complaining about the USA inflation and car prices, parts, etc... you guys have no idea how it is to like V8s here in Brazil, we can't buy one of them and barely affording a 4 cylinders because of the gas price. While some people don't like the 318, for us Brazilians, it is a dream.
They're going to sell off UT's block and heads, but it's for Saint Jude's and so that makes stealing off your friends OK.
It's really not the worst engine to be 'stuck with,' .....kind of a favorite of mine, really. The way I see it, if I had a *time machine* I would order the 340, but in the real world it's if anything easier to exceed that performance with a 318, yaknow, cam, headers, stuff Tony talks about, all that. 340 survivors tend to be kinda rare and people may really want to keep em stock, too, so parts are pretty much big bucks if available. (Certainly my 318 with, well, at least aprobably-Isky-type cam, unknown other maybe-mods from an unspecified history, and some pretty cheap headers I put on, and a full Accel ignition kit I lucked into, was certainly more than adequate for power. (I would guess at least somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 horsepower, which was a lot at the time for a street car. Never dynoed and was never much of a drag racer so never timed. :) )
I am 57 and been pissing around with them for years with no budget either.
These thing were so poorly built it's crazy . Just take 1 apart and match port the intake to the head or exhaust manifold is good for 10 hp easy. I have seen some intakes that are 1/10th closed due to miss alignment and had to slot the intake hole just to get them close then match port them. The heads are so rough just finger sanding them and removing the square corners from old worn out casting dies is a huge gain. The newer the motor the worse they get,. You have to remember Chrysler was broke and quality control was bottom of the list in late 70's.
Just cleaning up the water pump porting is good for 1-2 hp. again so poorly aligned they back up pressure and steal power.
Pop the valves out and look at the mess they let pass QC .Even if you know nothing just tear it appart and look at all the things that need to be smoothed out, adjusted to actual fit and fix that. Shave the head .030/.040is not that expensive, polish piston tops, slot the cam sprocket and actuly get the timing right, with a piston stop, polish the back side of the valves.
Put you cast intake in a river for a day and flow port it with sand LOL
What I am saying is Chrysler left a ton to clean up and make fit right,.
We had emission testing here in Canada back 20 years ago and no 2 ever made the same HP on the dyno durring testing. Some down 20hp or more and passed the emission test.
You don't have winter there like we do here but that when I would tear things apart and sit and be thinking looking at how bad they did. I am a Licensed Mechanic since 1996.
They used to call it Blue printing , just a fancy way of saying- assembling it as it was supposed to be.
A household Vacuum cleaner can work as a flow bench and a flow gauge so you can see if your making it flow better, JB weld has been used many times to fill mistakes.
. You don't need a billion dollar worth of tools just read books about flow bench results and theory. A couple of low resistance bearing on a home made stand, and a slow grinding process can work to balance a crank. same with balancing pistons . Digital scales are dirt cheap now.
Non of this is top secret or even that hard to do, they also take well to a cheap turbo and blow through carb, but that take $$$ .
Just fix what they left and you will be happy.
I love your country you have the most beautiful women your a luck guy.
They knew they were hijacking the project into something different almost immediately. We were off the rails early on, when they were talking about re-grinding the stock cam, and it’s a long time ago so I don’t remember exactly, but I believe that David was talking about using non-stock connecting rods or pistons.
Tony, *so many* of us want to see you build this 318 as per your original vision. Then just for the heck of it, maybe put on an intake and 4 barrel to see what you can do with that combo. Personally, I would also like you to then continue adding headers and measuring performance; then swapping cams as the last bit.
But I’d be so very pleased even if you “only” build the stock part 318 as you originally laid down and as absolutely everybody clearly understood as per your explanation.
It’s GREAT that you intend to eventually do the stock parts 318!
Ya I don't think David got the point from the beginning.I got the feeling he was thinking why would you rebuild it if you weren't gonna rebuild it.The whole idea of the two barrel soured him right off, lol.
That would be an interesting project, especially if during the process it could be explained whether things done would work on other engines or why not. Be great to see what might be achieved with that old 350 2bbl sitting out in the barn without having to invest more than just labour.
The concept of you are on a dessert island with this engine and you need to try to make as much power as possible out of it with no other parts is a hard concept to want to explore when you aren’t trapped on the island and there are so many better ways to improve things for a lot smaller investment. Time is money and David has limited amounts of it so spending 60-100 hours working over engine parts at $100 an hour to have a 300hp motor when you are done is crazy.
I respectfully disagree. Tony’s idea was simple and clearly expressed. There’s no way in the world those two didn’t understand it.
At some point they decided that they didn’t want to do it, and deliberately turned it into something completely different.
To me this is unambiguously dishonorable.
If they regretted their spur of the moment agreement to participate, they had ample time to tell Tony that both before Tony delivered the engine to them, and even after that they could have returned it.
It would have been understandable, changing their minds after thinking it through. Instead, they did what they did. Shameful.
@@andynicoll8566
Grinding the stock cam was something Tony did approve of, because it did fit into the idea he had of only removing metal from all the stock parts. The only modifications could be removing metal by lathe or mill or grinding, but it had to be done on all the original parts that the engine was born with.
Unfortunately I stopped following the project as soon as the original intent was lost. Glad to know you will redo it in the future.
I loved the INTENT of the Mission Impossible build. It was like a 16 year old kid gets the old clunker the family bought new, spends no money, and makes the best from what he has. A good life lesson all around.
if you do an internet search for "junkyard jewel 318", you can get a good recipe for a 318 build.
The intent would not help sick children.
This is exactly the kind of word vomit I expected to see in comments.... The way the St. Jude thing is being thrown around after the fact to ensure moral high ground is sickening.. If the INTENT was to auction off an engine with the INTENT to make a lot of MONEY for CHARITY why in the world would you use this project as your jumping off point it literally makes no sense..
@@bigboreracing356It was not supposed to help sick children. It was supposed to be a challenge to see what could be done with stock parts.
@@C2welder Helping sick children is more important.
I get the “old school” intent Tony set put down at the outset of this MI project. The project did spiral into a completely different direction. Good job Tony.
One thing that gets lost is that some of UT projects are just as much a science experiment as a hot rod project. In experiments, failure happens more than success. UT has no problem with failure. The man wants to try and learn stuff and take us along for the ride. If that isn't your thing, that's fine, but you should have respect for what he is doing in his videos. I only hope one day he will answer the age-old question once and for all: can you put a slant in a fiero?
Sounds actualy sensible compared to those guys out in Russia who wonder what happens to Ladas running flat out on concrete tires or somesuch nonsense!
I watched Andy's explanation this morning. Tony should definitely build the 318.
I agree but he's got a lot of irons in the fire
Tony should DEMAND his block and heads be returned. This is thievery. They are going to sell something that doesn't belong to them. They are claiming they want to sell it for charity to justify their stealing UT's block and heads. This is how friendships are ruined. They need to return his property.
@@tarstarkuszI think the only reason why Tony is not asking for his parts back is because of it being auctioned off for Saint Jude.
And anybody with half a brain cell knows that if you interdict something. Like such as this, you're going to catch so much hate, it's not funny.
You can kind of tell in the video that he's p***** about it. Which and all rights he should be Hell, I am for him, but he is being the bigger person. Bowing out gracefully and is going to build his own on his own.
And it sounded like a great idea. When they were first talking, but like in earlier comment. Somebody mentioned too many chiefs in the kitchen and that's exactly what happened
When I did my automotive apprenticeship, my teachers said that racing and modifying cars and engines is full of sharks and theives.
A well-known Aussie engine shop told me when I was an apprentice if you want to learn performance in this country there's only two ways to do it, pay an established American, like mondellos school to teach you or build your own engines, or build them, blow them up and keep repeating that until you figure it out. I went for the second option.
@@tarstarkusz I'm not sure you understand that now after the charity is involved any tampering makes Tony out to be the bad guy. You can't just demand things back after a charity is involved. If someone walked into your home, stole something of yours then sold it and then donated all the money to a cancer hospital for children you would probably be angry, however you wouldn't then take from a children's cancer charity would you? That's worst case scenario. Tony was involved in the project, he bowed out for good reason and now it is being donated to charity. There was no thievery. There are no demands to be made.
I knew it got lost when David started choosing pistons for it
same here.
In his defense, chrysler really needs a head bang for the piston to deck clearance. unless you weld the piston like Chris birdsong at junkerup, you'll never gettbe desired quech or compression from the engine, even if you remove the head gasket!
@littlevman2997 That is why offset grinding the crank needed done to get the piston further up the hole!
@@littlevman2997 well, yeah, that's the big fly in this entire ointment. the 318 isn't a big performance secret that's been overlooked. Anyone who's built one, knows it wasn't designed for performance, that's the job of the 340 and the 360. like you said, anyone doing a 318 for performance not towing, is going to have to choose pistons that give anything close to decent compression ratio (i've seen folks use Buick 350 pistons, but not the V6 since there's a pin issue due to the oddfire). and it seems like everyone forgets, David Vizard writes books and articles on how to modify every part of the engine to get the most power--like oil pumps or deciding which valve angle works best.
so, it might be an ego boost to get a NASA engineer to fix your radio, but don't be surprised when he decides to upgrade it :)
I remembered watching david vizards videos early on in the project
I found my self yelling at the screen
Thats not the intent of the build
I hope to see the original plan come to fruition
Tony will you please do your own mission impossible I feel very let down
I agree, Mike. I would have liked to see strict rules, how the testing would be done, and a hard deadline.
The idea was if you had a crap motor, no money, but time to do the work, could you make one HP/ cubic inch? I'm happily still waiting for that. 😊👍
He said he's going to after they have finished theirs.
@@georgem8200 (2027?)
@@moparnut6286 You do know that it is possible to not watch Tony's videos if you dislike him so much don 't you???
Ignore the haters and keep up the great content. They’re not here long term.
I agree whole heartedly on this one. Forget the budget part of it, i just wanted to see what could be done with stock parts, like what my grandfathers generation did before we had off the shelf performance this and that. To me the original idea of this had the spirit of the original hot rodders. Theyres absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to make a good engine for a st judes donation, but thats not what this was supposed to be...
the reason why most mopar fans don't fool with the 318 is there's not really a piston designed to get the compression up. and the heads suck, so you hunt for X heads or the 308 heads, and by the time you put on those and the aftermarket intake manifold that was about as good as the 340 cast unit, you're still making less power than if you put those same parts on a 360.
the good news? do an internet search for "junkyard jewel 318"
do an internet search for "project junkyard jewel 318" and you'll get an idea of what you're looking for.
Watched both videos today and it was mentioned on Andy's that " a few companies are supplying parts"
Seems it got a bit more commercial for them
I'm still waiting for the "built in the kitchen 318" to come back.
That was supposed to be a 383 if I remember correctly.
@@Sleepy_Js_Garage I think it was a 318, but no matter, the point was to show how to build an engine without having a garage or the "normal" facilities of the typical engine builder.
@@clembob8004 i remember that, and frankly, i wish there were more videos of how much can get done at home. not that i want to put machine shops out of business, but for many, the local machine shop is only good for "fleet service rebuilds". might as well do stuff like that at home, like polish your own crank journals or blueprint an oil pump or soak rusty parts in molasses dip to save them.
Mission Impossible could have been a long term series of videos taking things step by step using only factory parts comparing what changes make a difference with a dyno pull after each "change". Hone the cylinders fresh rings & valves. Then port the factory heads & intake. Fuel would be a 2 step process... Massage the stock 2 bbl for max flow, and then see what the difference is with a stock 340 4bbl intake & carb. As long as its a factory production part, it should be acceptable. The important part is seeing the actual difference between the original installed part and the factory supplied "massaged" part.
All great, but inexpensive EFI W/spark control makes final tuning more precise and repeatable.
That is called intellectual masturbation......Nothing in this project is doable with a crescent wrench and a file....
@@kurtvanluven9351Then that starts going back down the road of just throwing money at it and building something aftermarket performance parts like has been done many times before.
@@kurtvanluven9351MI is a project MODIFYING THE FACTORY STOCK PARTS. Fuel injection wasn’t a stock part, this is exactly what UT is explaining and how the project went off course. Did you actually watch the video? 😎
Utg not clever enough for that idea bro
They lost me when David started talking about these fantastic pistons that were donated and then I heard about the LS valves. It got so far away from its roots that the average guy could not recreate that engine. I was really interested at first, because of the "run what ya brung" aspect of it, then it became bastardized. I grew up with the "this is what ya got, make.it work" mentality and someday I'd really like to shake your hand.
Yep.
the age-old problem with the 318 is the piston choice, if you want to make real compression. that's why for decades, Mopar fans went to the 340 and 360. You buy the 340/360 parts to make your 318 sing, and then the laws of physics says that a 360 would make more steam with those parts. The 318 was never a hidden diamond that Tony made it out to be. I can't blame David, who makes race engines on the cheap, for seeing a 318 needing a cam and intake swap, and being interested. UTG, back before he got this new shop, had videos on waking up a 318 in his wife's Dart, hopefully he can bring 'em back or just do one for those who feel left behind.
They were already angle milling the head .125" to build compression and change the valve angle in relation to the piston. This could be done by anyone and would still be allowed under the "born with it" parts rule. This went from a neat idea to a "It's got MY name on it" type of build. I understand that David has built tons of engines and found power where most woulnow to look. He agreed to the build, then just did what he wanted taking this thing so far from it's roots that I don't really care how much power it makes now. The project became null and void the instant ego became involved and regardless of anyone's opinion, that's what I believe happened. I do hope they raise a good amount of money for St. Judes, because that organization does good by those kids.
@@oldwaysstillwork well, when you say, "anyone can angle mill a head", this anyone also has to mill the intake manifold by a similar amount to avoid a vacuum leak, and then get the distributor on some engines to match the new height. and then there's the pushrod length issue. that can be solved by new 'rods or get the adjustable rocker arm setup from a 273, but the holes in the head that the pushrods go through aren't surrounded by a whole lot of cast iron to waller out. So "anyone" probably means a machine shop, but i agree with you. this isn't the same as an "unobtainium" speed part.
but if you think David took it over, rather than showed just how much work it takes to make a 318 perform its best (everyone wants to be a contrarian, but perhaps there's a reason Mopar fans skip over it to buy a 360), then you made my case that DV was the wrong person to go to. Personally, i think if you want to build a street engine, don't go to a race engine builder. maybe it was UTG's garage ego wanting the big name to get more clicks to his channel.
but if you want a budget build, search for "junkyard jewel 318". Hot Rod or Car Craft Magazine did the brainwork for us.
I will check that out. You are correct in that going to a race shop was a bad idea for a budget build. This just went off the rails very quickly. Was a 318 a horsepower monster? NO!!
Were they dead nuts reliable and hard kill? Very much so!
It would've been nice to see what all of David's knowledge could've done with stock parts is my point. The extra machine work to make the intake work on angle milled heads is a pain and costly for sure, but it's been done for years. The availability of aftermarket heads and good pistons eliminated the need on desirable engines, so you don't hear about it very much nowadays. You may be right that UTG needed an ego boost, but either way,this thing went south in a hurry and there's no coming back. Will it be a good engine when they finally finish it? Probably be a nasty little ball of fun, however, it's not going to be what it was supposed to be. Like I've said before though, I hope they raise a ton of money for St. Judes. It's a great organization.
some people don't understand its not how fast you go it's how you go fast
many will focus on how fast they go, and if they spend money, they lower the price on the parts due to supply and demand. Or they put a turbo LS into everything. those guys are doing me a favor, because the old 1960's engines are coming up cheap--just landed another Olds 455 for $100 instead of $500, guy wasn't sure what it was and didn't think anyone would want it. But yeah, it's fun for some of us to silk purse the sow's ear sitting behind the shed. we grew up in the old days of street machines when we cruised the junkyards for the right OEM stuff as much as we stood outside the window of the speed shop drooling over what we had to save up to buy.
I understood the MI build as you described it, twice. Within a couple days, I was in the minority. I saw this day coming. No harm. I'll follow the new build. I'm happy.
Sorry Tony, legend or not I don’t agree with what they did. Yes, they might have wanted a better engine to auction off, but this was your idea, your baby, and not only were you kept out of the loop but they deterred from your original idea giving the middle finger to all the people expecting a stock 318 build using factory parts. Yes it benefitted a good cause, and although you are too nice and humble to admit, I will, what they did was fucked up…. and I myself won’t forget they did that. I’m glad Saint Jude’s will have a great donation don’t get me wrong, but what they did to you and your idea was bullshit, and it’s s slap in the face to all the people waiting to see the outcome.
You don't want to say anything bad about the guys involved, so let us say it. It was WRONG to change the scope of the project. There is plenty of information readily available to build engines with aftermarket parts that aren't crazy builds. What there is less of is content like Mission Impossible would have been. What mods worked? Was it worth the time? What kind of tools and machines would you need to do the job? Is it something that could be fairly easily replicated? I wanted Mission Impassible, not Mission ImPartsCatalog. I also believe that any motor you would have built would have gotten at least as much as whatever this ends up going for at auction, maybe more. If the goal was just to raise money for St. Jude's, I'm sure you could have raised a good bit of money asking for donations on the respective channels.
It was off the rails as soon as David started on it.
I was thinking the same thing Tony just said in this video!!
Thumbs up Tony.
Charles Servedio did most of the leg work on this 318. He kept to the original intent and ported another set of smog heads, 2 bbl smog intake and log exhaust manifolds. He has hundreds of hours in working those parts. I would like to see him finish the project.
Not quite the original intent. Charles picked the best smog heads from the mid 80s to develop, and they have different ports, different chambers, and can be modified in ways that the original 60s-70s heads can not. Immediately that throws intent out the window. Anybody can find those 80s heads and bolt them on and get 25hp extra without any port work at all, and that is not starting out with the original low performance parts.
Irrelevant.
@@jamesholmes3955Too bad he didn't have more consideration for Tony and all the viewers from the various channels who had no interest in what is going to be built.
So go watch him finish his project, nobody is trying to stop either of you.
It's how I met Charlie. He must have been David's right arm and he wanted to help. He's a Master in head tuning, but He's got the tools and a flowbench. Something 99% of us dont.
Im sure He's gonna finish David's project.
The thing with Tony. is. He doesn’t care if an idea fails. Mission impossible. Build it send it , everyone else , oh no this thing has to be great
there's a place and time for both philosophies. if i was paid by youtube, i wouldn't care if my investment failed, either. some of us are lucky that we have the time, the tools, and the spare parts to say, "hey, what if we..." but others are in it to win it, and they need to prove to the wife they got their money's worth.
LOL, I sent a vintage General Kinetics cam in for the build, you can see the box in one of Andy/DV's videos. Not technically a stock 318 camshaft, but a mild "cheater" of sorts. Had the same 240* advertised duration (!!!) and .390" lift (!!!) but on a narrower (107* vs 112*) lobe separation angle. I figured it would bolster the cylinder pressure somewhat and help with cylinder filling (overlap), not really a race piece but a vintage (quality) item that fit the build, and I knew I'd never use it myself. Shortly thereafter the build metamorphasized into a "F.A.S.T." class engine of sorts and obsoleted my cam's possible usage. Hoped I could play a small part in the M.I. 318, but oh well!
Wow man, wish you'd sent it my way. I've got a 318 in a 68 barracuda that's yearning for that piece
Imagine all the other parts that have been donated, only to be undermined by ego
@@littlevman2997 Contact Andy Wood or David Vizard whenever they finish the MI 318 series, they would never need it, and they can send the proceeds to St. Jude!
Sounds like an old game of "Telephone" where the message gets garbled by the 4th or 5th player...
To be honest, I lost interest in the project as soon as the mention of Chevy LS bits getting added and new heads.
It was obviously the original idea was to polish n lighten bits and pieces, see how good you can make it go.
I thought the secondary part of DV's plan, to rebuild the project at the end, to auction off and raise money for St Jude's was a good plan, but after the original project was done, not a complete switch.
Intent, 🤔 budget building a 318 for those who don't shit extra $100 bills weekly. 😉
Practical application to the UTG viewer; -Tips and tricks to building a super strong powerplant for a vintage birdbath D100 in a home shop with simple tools.
Thanks for sharing, UTG.
My kind of advice! Solid, cheap, practical performance tips😁
It's amazing how fast a idea can go off the rail's, makes me think back to high school day's when me and 4 friends were going to camp out on our farm then, 150 to 200 kids showed up and it turned into a field party!🤣
Same sort of thing I was thinking about
Field party= kegger on grass or mud.
@@candyrobinson3637 😂👍
@@musclecarmitch908 Always loved field parties!
@@DanEBoyd 😊👍
I followed the first few episodes of the mission impossible build on David’s channel. As soon as I saw him specifying non stock parts I stopped watching and lost complete interest. Thanks for the update.
I watch Andy's channel all the time. I will continue to watch Andy
However, I can't stress this enouph! You, Andy, and Visard made an agreement of how to proceed. It is very important to stand by agreements or dont make them at all. Andy is young and as you said a good man. I honestly hope he gets the importance of agreements figured out sooner than later so that he can thrive in life both with friends and in his family life as well!
Honestly, in this world you may be better off working alone uncle Tony.
Please give us some more conspiracy theory stuff :)
I don't blame you, its not the same project anymore. On the bright side, there's no shortage of 318s out there to start over.
I like and will still watch Andy's videos and am not going to hold it against him, but he should have done his build seperately as HIS BUILD not as Uncle Tony's concept build. Great respect for UT on his handling of this
One reason I continue to watch your channel, make a plan and stick to it or to the best of the original idea.
This became a game of telephone, somewhere down the line money and a parts book got thrown in.
I always liked this channel because its built not bought.
It's the difference between using your skills and knowledge to build horsepower and using your chequebook.
How deep is your knowledge versus how deep are your pockets.
those were smog motors. theres nothing good with the cams. mine is a 71 318 2bbl being built with the original intent of the mission impossiable, to be factory appearence in the 71 w 100 .
I found a 1956 265 chevy block in an old barn. I saved it because I would love to do this type of thing eventually.
You need to follow through with more projects your ADD is really showing.
Tony, i think the only way to keep a project pure is to keep it totally in house. I'm looking forward to your Mission Impossible project.
Well said.
you are so right, can we try again?
No need to apologize. Most have forgotten about this a long time ago ...
You can watch dozens and dozens of Charles videos modifying the stock 318 parts. He's probably got hundreds of hours invested. They are building a highly modified 318 with stock 318 parts. And at the same time, also doing aftermarket parts too. They aren't just building what tony is saying in this video.
Thank you for the closure.
I remember watching David Vizard's videos of the mission impossible 318 video, cause I planned on following it as much as I can with the 239ci V6 (for kicks and giggles), and he started talking about aftermarket pistons then I knew "oh god the spirit is gone..."
So they total stolen utg idea and turned it into something they wanted!! No respect for people like that! Never watch their videos again! 3rd party jump in just to boost his channel and pull money in for tony idea!!
maybe you should have took control
I felt that David and Andy should never have said they would do the engine, because they should have said there schedule would not have allow them the time to do it, this would have been a very interesting build as first discussed.
I have followed the build of the heads, they are indeed stock open chamber heads with stock valves. They were built in the same intent as you had. They flow 230cfm. I believe your intent was great, but however because David is so well known, the manufacturers seek him out. That seems to be what corrupted the project. The manufacturers want to showcase their parts. 318s can make 318 horsepower easily, not with the stock 2 barrel. There are many people that can do it. You can do it Tony, you have great content, keep up the good work.
It was my favorite series by far....then I was like wtf happened.....the rod mass videos were great , big savings in weight.
I remember how exited you were about the original idea and having Andy and David involved. It's a bummer it didn't happen that way, I really wanted to know how much mass production slop could be turned into HP. Thanks for the update!
smokey yunick, when the chevy 396 came out, claimed that blueprinting that specific engine got him another 100 hp. so, yeah, there's power to be found, which is why the big racers blueprint. but that requires expertise and expensive machinery, so it's out of the range of Joe Shadetree. but we can guess the "hidden power" is whatever the factory came up with when they gave us the official rating--no doubt they picked the best engine to make that finding on :)
🥝✔️ I'm an engineering technician. Earlier, you did just warn the team, Mission creep is a dangerous disease. Anyone who is too heavily into this needs to be reigned in. It's like Japanese self deference and martial arts..."only tools You've got are These. With Rock Auto parts". It wasn't you UTG. When I heard the trolls heap praise on the other guys who zoomed in to help, I stopped watching. I'll bet they never liked it when Werner Von Braun was invited to help the upgraded to Moon Shoot mission..
I started noticing it in my teens and as my friends and I got better jobs and bigger budgets our mission creeps got bigger and farther. Imagination and thought can do a lot to derail the original path
The difference is, without Von Braun the American space program wouldn't of gone anywhere.
@@BigPoppa-Monk True, but were are on a Mission to uncharted 318, not charted 340 4bbl, or Uncharted Space. I don't need the likes of WVB's help until Hal 9000 won't open the cargo door.
Vizard isn't going to work on a turd.
@@deanstevenson6527 I can't do that Dave. lol
You're just too smart for your own good. probably not the first time you heard this.
I'm DYING to see the project you were originally planning on doing BTW
While a hot engine for St. Jude is fine but I'm not curious about the build. I'm interested in the actual intent version of Mission Impossible 318.
Tony, I agree with you......the project definitely went off the rails. Months ago I commented on Andy's page about the build and how it was not really what you had in mind. No disresoect to Andy or David.....I've read several of David's books and used some of hid findings on some of my own builds in the past, and Andy's knowledge of the tunnel ram is incredible........but this morphed into something completely different fairly quickly and then the giving the proceeds of selling it to chariity got involved. I think this is where the intent changed, because to be honest, who really wants a stock reworked 318......the consensus would be very few. A modified 318 that makes gazillions of HP would be an easier sell, and hence easier to get the $$ promised to the charity. I'm fine with the idea of giving the $$ to charity, I'm not saying that was a bad idea, I'm just saying that's where the original intent of the project strayed. When they started going down that path, I stopped watching that video series. I, like many others that follow your channel, truly wanted to see the project go as it was originally intended. I guess it's like the old saying....if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. And in this case, right would mean following the original intent.
Spot on.
I cannot watch Nicks know it all garage
They do think they are special
I like it Nick. he makes mistakes. has a good time. And I watch him wrench some cool cars.
No down side.
I am very disappointed in the route mission impossible went… really wish it would have kept to the plan. Tony I’m sorry this went the way it did. I’m a fan of the st Jude’s proceeds idea but that wasn’t the original goal. And in all fairness if you want to build one for that fine…build an all out extreme 318… you hit the nail right on the head… the intent was lost. Really look forward to the second coming of the mission impossible 318 that will be done based on all stock bottom of the barrel 318 parts that any Joe blow can build. It’s hard to be mad when the proceeds go to a cause this good but I’m definitely looking forward to the original idea being completed.
Much needed explanation form you and Andy. Thanks!
Hate to say it.
But David is getting old and i have seen projects go south like this.
A project as simple as moving plants around in a house can go bad when working would people that are on the decline in life.
Its like working with a child.
You shouldn't expect anything different. They want what they want and thats it.
Yup Tony lighten up man, this happened I'm glad you said what and how you said it. I commented at the beginning of this, we were stock eliminator racing a 70 challenger 318, 904, and it was fun to see what changes did. Bone stock 15.6 Qtr at 89mph. This was 1988. Did all the things the class allowed no cheats, at the end 13.6 at 97mph shifts at 7200, still stock short block 6' adv on stock cam. No blow ups so much fun. I'm pretty sure this was the intent of it. We did mission impossible, can be done! You tube is full of 1000hp builds with the best most costly parts, i get it. Still like all of you David Andy, Charles and you silly WOP. Thumbs up from the crazy greek in az👍👍😁
I would add this; I think the idea of low cost improvement to stock if lets say rebuilding one from a nice car that's tired, and getting something more power and better gas mileage to boot is what we would do with our daily driver. Tony is on that AND what we did in stock eliminator class. I challenge you all to watch stock eliminator races and see what a 305 chevy can do with a carburator., you cant do LS or Mod ford swapping if it doesn't come that way factory. it is way fun!
So the project went from old school shoe string hotrodding to the same old crap as every video and magazine, throwing parts and high dollar machining at the wall.
Elbow grease vs credit card
It would've been nice to see the project finished as originally intended, instead of hopping it up like they are doing now.
When a project with clear intent and simple to follow guidelines turns into 3-d chess in the back of a rolling moving van
It's about business. UTG could do it according to your initial concept because your $$ come from UA-cam. Their money comes from business.
There is no way to get their time and effort reimbursed in any way doing it per UT's original concept. So since they are business's, they need other avenues. They came up with charity donations as a method. Once that was in the mix and it was going to be a raffle engine it had to live in the hands of the recipient.
They are worried that would not happen with highly mod'd OEM parts. So it evolved into something else ... 😁
Charley is well respected porter. And he's a protege of David's airflow theories. And he's done the most raw science in the direction of the original intent. To do it with UTG's original intent, the team would have 1,000 hrs into that motor. You'd need DV at 27 years old ... 🙃
The only person who can do the original Mission Impossible 318 is UTG alone. Make it your own series. 😊
They need lunar involved
Its like the st jude thing was thrown in there as a power move to maintain moral high ground.. Of course it should be a desirable engine if its being auctioned off but to say it got off the rails is an understatement and furthermore as an engine thats going to just anyone it really couldve never been what was originally intended..
Dana "60" Glass. I guess, take the old saying "when you want something done right, do it yourself." Love to see this done as you wanted it originally. Next after a 318, a Slant 6 in whatever cubic inch displacement.
You may have thrown the baby out with the bath water. David's videos on the crankshaft, rods and charlie's work on the cylinders, the videos were a master class in engine building and preparation and provided theory and great information on things a home builder can do to get max potential out of any engine, and dave provided great information and was generous in providing feedback from his many dyno runs. David's and Charlie's explanation of flow in the head and combustions chamber is brilliant. While it had stepped out or Tony's strict vision, there was just a ton of information and some of it like Dave's evaluation that LS valve springs are bee hive and could be used on the 318 head, while its not in the strict definition of Tony's vision, its a much more practical and readily available low dollar options. So the comments are a bit strange and would seem that some of the commentors haven't really watched the videos. There is so much good information in those videos that it seems trite and juvenile for people to go down those paths. And not very enlightened, cuz if you know and watch Tony, you would suspect he will execute his vision when he's ready.
agreed. asking David to do this build was like asking Bob Villa to assemble your IKEA with the toolbox you keep for the wife under your sink. He composes articles and books on engine theory and making race engines, but everyone's blaming him for not making a beer-budget street engine? seems like those who are blaming egos are pointing in the wrong direction. i'd love to have David Vizard make an engine, but a race engine, not something i can do myself for a daily driver....
Mopar guys don't bother with 318's because they already know the compression issue with pistons (which is why David went looking for a solution, and that ironically flagged everyone as "going off the rails"). you put 360 parts on it, and you don't get the performance a 360 would make with the same parts. now, if youtube is paying your bills, sure, it's fun to find out what everyone else already found out, but...
Watched your channel do a complete 360, and to be quite honest I lost interest after the introduction of collaboration's. On your own you have complete control of your direction which is how I've always worked because I want total control. Good to see you back to the UT we first hit the subscribe button for.
What David Vizard forgot, we’ll never know. His videos are a must-watch for technical engine builders
That is true, an no one is saying otherwise.
I really appreciate your humility on this, Tony. Keep the faith!
You guys carry on like it's a moral dilemma. It's not! You can literally put together what's been achieved so far and put it on a dyno. Then you can do stage 2 or Davids give away. All it takes is a little backbone and some commitment to communication.
YEaaaa. Thats what happens when involvement parties grow. Im gonna blame rust
You made the right choice on this one Tony. I remember your intent when you first started this project, it was stock factory parts from that supplied engine. Very smart people in their capacity I think tend to not focus on the stock portion of the project but on the extreme performance that they work with every day. When you start your new project I will be watching. George from St. Pete
Unfortunately, the Mission Impossible project inadvertently morphed into Mission Creep Extraordinaire... 😵💫
we need more projects without fancy parts. at the end youtube is full of builts sponsered by part makers. that´s a lost of the original garage spirit. any idiot can buy parts.
That’s what had me interested. It’s well known you can throw money and parts at it and get good power. I wanted to see the massaging what you started with to get decent power.
Completely agree with your idea. The project is now just a expensive project for everyone who does not have easy accessible parts (outside of the US).... Lost interest....
The project went off the rails right when the St. Jude auction thing came up - now it had commercial concerns. I am NOT being critical of charity in any way, but that's when this thing changed.
Looking forward to your build. I remember an old magazine article about an 80s or 90s Corvette where someone (Lingenfelter maybe?) went through the engine and, balanced everything, degreed the cam, ported,, gasket matched everything...went through the exhaust and radiused the inside of all the joints for better flow. The car made 100HP more with no new parts. Are you going to use stock exhaust manifolds or headers?
Group of guys working on 1 engine . Nope. I let them watch and drink beer .
I got the original idea which was how early hotrodding was done. Massaging parts to get the maximum output from them.
Perhaps Uncle Tony could do a 318 build using stock parts it would be a good series that would be applicable to all engines for people to fettle their own engines.
I thought I was clicking on an informative video, instead it’s a pissing match “drama” between a bunch of UA-cam prima donna’s.
UTG you did a video about a year ago about why you work alone. Someone was supposed to something, and they half assed it.
You didn’t heed your own advice.
Total respect for your knowledge and skill, that’s why I watch your videos. Not interested in Jerry Springer for
Hot Rodders.
David Vizard is a legend, owned his SBC and Holley carb books for decades, but… He’s a self aggrandizing drama queen.
Or as a former boss from South Africa would call him, “no he’s not a prima donna, he’s British.”
Next time UTG, take your own advice!
But of course the more clicks the more $$$ for all involved right?
UTG, the problem being that the same effort (that cost time and $$$$) can get better results with different part selection other than reworking bone stock, engine parts.....When you spend your time, machine shop time,new parts ### making that A-LA 318 pig ear into that silk purse, you could have gone to the recycling yard and bought a late Magnum 318/360 for 3 or 400 bucks.....
Just like I suspected! That channel has been growing and gaining a following by misrepresenting the content of his videos! I have clicked several times because he will use UTG or David Vizards name on the title of his videos just for clicks, I find that super annoying and disingenuous to be honest… but that’s on him.
You're classy Tony. Im pissed for you, but you're taking the high road.
A "third voice" can be deadly to a project. Sounds like you were "marginalized". I hate it whenever someone takes MY idea for a project for us to do TOGETHER & then the next thing i know i've been shuffled out & that "third voice" is suddenly calling the shots.
I'm only half way thru this and seen and thought it's off the rails 3 months ago when Tony never mentioned the project again and a handful of other channels were still promoting the name of the original project...
I realized right away this original project was done and whatever was going on was leftover video trying to pass as something that somebody cares about.
I have to admit, I thought the idea was not good from the get go.
Why not do "intent" on mission impossible with a 455 Olds? Take any engine out of any lo-po 88 or 98 4 barrel motor and I won't even change the cam and make 1hp per cube....which, by the way, is an awesome measure of performance....
One Horsepower Per Cubic Inch is actually a solid performance value to achieve.
If I hit the lottery and win $10 million dollars, then I want to build a 750 cubic inch custom big block or billet custom block engine somebody is getting punched in the face if it don't make 1500 on a warm up tune with 87 octane. 750 cubes custom made better make 2+hp per cube for example what I'm saying
In my opinion, the "intent" was hijacked and direction changed to benefit someone else with catering to sponsors wanting in.... A very disappointing change of direction with YOUR idea.
This whole "don't want it to blow up" as the excuse is utter BS and makes zero sense considering it would've maybe made 300hp..Over powered?..Hardly.
I get the whole St.Judes charity and wanting to get as much as possible for them but the way it was done was just wrong.
I hope to see YOUR version of mission impossible come to reality.
I had one 2 bbl 69 318 pulled from a 69 Charger swap ! It was a screamer , single non-posi tire melter in my 66 fury 3 luxo-boat Ply ! It had heavily shaved heads with a good 3 angle valve job ! all stock 904 automatic ,It definitely was up 20-25 hp over stock , my guess? After working it ,stock bottom new rings, bearings , ported heads solid lift PAW cam and springs , 3.55 posi baby slicks 10" 3200 stall in a 727 , i quarter mile ET best 14.5sec in almost 2 ton auto, even that wasn't 1 hp per cube ? I think yea mission impossible for sure ! Tony ! Later on bored with i i tried blowing it up , was doing 8k upshifts 1st and 2nd gear ! it never blew , replaced with a b block 73 400 till i sold it.Good luck with the impossible !
Mission Impossible turned into Mission creep. Not unusual. Quite common in the Defense Department. Probably too many brains working on this project.
Just put a lawnmower carb on Mission Impossible. 300 hp and 72 mpg. Just like I see others doing. Put an HHO system on and get 92 mpg, lol.
Sounds like a couple of delusions there bud haha
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I totally understand that the project morphed into something completely different. The St. Jude's engine vs. the Mission Impossible engine. I have been there myself. You should have built it yourself from the start. Not saying anything negative about the others involved. It just became their project, not yours.
The St. Judes involvement forced a change in the dynamic and mission of the original project parameters unfortunately . But a bone stock 318 2bbl wouldn't get the appropriate bidding to raise funds for those kids. They absolutely needed to build a desirable version to get the bids to help those kids. You can always do it your way on the next one. Helping kids with cancer is far more important and yes it got away from what you were expecting but necessary under those circumstances . Build your 318 with all the nuances of X HP gains it will be helpful and insightful to your fans, subscribers , and financially challenged gear heads. It's still worthwhile to do.
I think you should build it.
I watched Andys video. A mountain of excuses. David and Andy took a great idea and derailed it. Build the 318 Uncle Tony. This is why i just build engines on my own.
Once it went off the rails I lost interest in it. I’d still like to see your original idea take shape. I am interested in what the Unity Motorsports guys can do with the new scope of the engine but I was much more interested in the original idea as it was intended.
I started seeing those videos about 6 months ago and was getting confused because I could never understand what Charles was doing and what the flow charts were doing. It also got into stuff I don't think I could ever do. I was really looking forward to the results, because my Dakota has a 318.
When you get Vizard involved, it becomes all about Vizard. I have very little time for people who agree to do one thing, and then go ahead and do whatever they like, because they think life's all about them.. I don't need to keep those guy's on side because one day I might need their help, so I can honestly say....Screw those guy's.
I just paused and went to see Unity's video for reference and that's it for me. I'm out. I'm not picking sides but this isn't Mission Impossible anymore. I wish them luck but I'm done with the project.