How To Layout And Cut Hip Roof Rafter Without Any Math Formulas or Framing Square
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2020
- www.homebuildingandrepairs.co... Visit our website today to learn more about house framing, construction math and home building. Here's another making it easier video for those of you who aren't interested in understanding every thing about roof framing. You will learn how to layout and cut a hip roof rafter without using any complicated math formulas or even a framing square.
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Here's a link to a video that will show you how to layout a hip rafter with a framing square and math formula. ua-cam.com/video/d1tO8TYHy2M/v-deo.html
Very interesting video thank you. I must say I got lost where you said the piece of ply template was 17 inches, where did you get the 17 inches from? Many thanks, Paul
Good appreciate the information
Good appreciate the information
Good appreciate the information
@@arthurcurrey2219 po pls i love 💗
I’ve always been fascinated with roof lay out and how it’s calculated, this video was very informative.
Thanks Chuck
You're welcome and thanks for using the word informative, I like it.
It's been a while since I've done any roofing and i must say how clear and simple this video is,
A great help to anyone new to the trade
I always enjoy compliments like your.
For the most part I have cut hips measuring from center lines. A rafter book or square is handy finding out common differences of hip an valley Jacks. This is a good method if for some reason you forgot your square. Getting some work done is always good 👍
Thanks for the video , it is not confusing but very simple....to a point where any ordinary person who is not a carpenter can built it. Thanks......a lot
Well said!
Great video thanks so much! Love the roof framing!
You're welcome and thanks for letting us know how much you like our videos.
Not just a like, definitely worth a suscribe! Great presentation!
Much appreciated!
Very clear for a complex detail, thanks!
You're very welcome!
these are incredible videos. Super helpful I hope you're making money off these cause you're saving me lots.
Glad you like them and thanks for letting us know!
What is your history? Your videos are outstanding. I've taught construction classes for contractors wishing to take the exam for their builder's license. Your method of teaching is more easy to understand for the layman than using Trigonometry etc. Using the Empirical Method is very interesting versus the normal way of teaching Carpentry. Enjoy your videos very much and marvel and the clarity of the video and instruction. Amazing work. Thank you for all your hard input and teaching ability.
Very informative. THX!
Thank you. Great explanation, tone, speed and graphics.
You are welcome!
Wow been framing roofs for bout 30 years now and never occurred to me that I could cut a 17” board to scribe my level cuts. That’s an excellent tip. I will remember that next time I forget my speed square.
Yes, scrap pieces come in handy, especially square ones:)
well... i mean considering this method requires the installer to make common rafters to begin with, you still need a framing square regardless.
@@maxdecphoenix i understand but lets say I’m on the roof cutting rafters and my square slid off the roof or forget to bring it up. Just saying its a useful tip.
Hip rafters
@@maxdecphoenix Look up the angle of the roof on a 4-12 it would be 18 1/2 degrees and cut it on a chop saw.
Again, a great video, Greg.
Thanks again for letting us know and this one took quite a while to make.
Can also measure down on crows mouth and square across hip and square it off where your facia cut matches the common rafters facia cut .
Great info. Always did the step off method with the framing square and then a calculator but this is much easier. The dropping of the hip bird mouth is always a concern.
We like easy and figuring out exactly how much to drop the hip can be confusing.
He did drop it by moving the plum lin in 3/4 and took that measurrment
cant wait to try it thanks for your time and effort
Let me know how it works out and you're welcome.
A fantastic explanation, and a joy to watch after spending a day framing a 15‘3“ square pavilion out of rough cut, full dimension 4X western red cedar. A question I have: we had a lot of different tools on site and were able to make our hip rafter seat cuts cleanly, but how does one make the initial angled offside plumb cut that bevels opposite a Skil saw base plate?
I usually cut it straight and don't worry about making it perfect.
It’s a double cheek cut isn’t it?
Great video like always. Thank you
You're welcome and I especially like the great video as always part.
Thank youuuuuuu! God bless you
You're welcome!
Great video
Very helpful thank you 🌷
You’re welcome 😊
thanks for sharing such helpful videos
It's my pleasure
Excellent, thanks.
You are welcome!
Excellent explanation very clear and precise 🤠👍
Thank you kindly!
I’ve always cut my hips then common then jack rafters .... thanks construction master calculator
The construction master is the lead carpenters friend 👍
You might not believe this, but in double checking some of the measurements in this video, the construction master calculator didn't get them right.
Hey Greg . Do we normally need a floor plan from an architect to build a carport?
Thanks
Thanks I liked the video.
Glad to hear it and thanks for letting me know.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Good vid i learned
Glad to hear it
Probably already mentioned somewhere below but we always used to bevel back the top of the hip on both sides, it provides a better seat for the material sitting on the rafters.
A true perfectionist.
Double bevel the long and short??
Or the top of the whole hip?
@@Hunter_s_morrison Yes along the top of the whole hip, chamfer back the top edges toward the centre line and the laiths or covering will seat perfectly.
@@stevemartin43 I always do that with my ridges also
to get the side line for the bottom of the bevel you would put a 6-17 line on a scrap and mesure long the 17 side 3/4 or what is 1/2 the ridge
Finally I get it
Great video!!! Thanks for the knowledge. I know its an old video, so I dont espect an reaction to my question, but I dont understand how this pyramide roof is supported to avoid it pushing the walls outside. I cant find an answer online for this problem.
See if this helps - ua-cam.com/video/Bo1Rvl_X20A/v-deo.html
I find using the inside measurement from the wall plate internal corner to the bottom of the ridge so the length of the underside of the hip and mark my cuts from there that way the seat cut does not come into the building of course this may mean the top edge of the hip is higher than the common rafters but the underside will be inline with the common rafters so if its being plaster boarded it will be flat
Thankz for teaching me that
Happy to help
Very helpful new suber
Thanks for the sub!
Alternately you can bank the hip. On a piece of 2x material that may not seem like a big deal but if your hip were a 6x gluelam that is exposed, it provides a cleaner appearance.
I think I know what you're saying, some extra support. Feel free to provide more details if I'm wrong.
Very helpful
Glad to hear that
Nice nice 👌 👍 👏
Thanks 😊
I got the upper, angled cuts on the rafter, but I still didn't understand how did you determine the lower cut angle and how deep should it be when you're using the guides? Thanks for video and happy 2022! 👍
It will vary on different projects with lower or steep roofs. Most of the time you will be safe cutting it the width of the framing plates that the rafter will be sitting on and not larger.
Here is how to cut a common and a hip.. say you have a 6-12 slope that is 22 1/2 degrees. You can cut a scrap this angle that is the plumb cut of a common rafter using a chop saw nail a clete on the scrap and use that for the top cut of the rafter for the birds mount make a plumb mark and slid a sqare cut 2/4 scrap down that line until it first touches the bottom. if you draw a 12'' sqare the diagional is 17'' well it is actually 16.97'' but you use 17'' what that means is every time you go one inch on the 12 side you move 17'' on the diagonal.. so in 2' it would be 34'' but since the rater rises that would not be the length of the hip or common. to get the rafter length you would need to get a rafter book. you take the span of the rafter say 24' and look that up under common.and it would give you the distance from the exact center of the building to the plate. That is the length of the common... If you have a ridge say a 2/8 you would deduct 1 1/2 '' from the span.. Now framing the hip you may notice the hip cannot reach the center of the rafters so you would have to shoten the hip but if yoo use a book using the span of the building minus the ridge you would get the exact length of the hip or valley no shortng needed.. respond it you want to know what to do next
Thanks for the video. Super informative. Question, I completely understand the concept of the template board needing to match the pitch of the roof. For instance we are going to be framing at 6/12 hip roof. But I don't understand is why the length of the template board needs to be 17 inches? 17 inches never changes even if pitch changes?
This link should help. www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/math/index.html
There is a lot more to cutting rafters than a 12'x12' building
Thengs sir
Welcome
If your pitch is the same on the "end" of your structure the common rafter will give you the hip location by simply finding center of the top plate and placing the seat cut on the wall and matching the plumb cut to the top of the ridge.
Sounds good.
Dropping the hip is necessary to get all of the roof framing in plane. If you plane across the the common rafters from both sides they would intersect on the center line of the hip rafter, therefore leaving the corners of that board proud which would cause the sheathing to have a hump in it. Dropping the hip brings the corners of the hip rafter (the sheathing contact point) in plane with the commons. This problem can also be overcome by ripping the whole top of the hip rafter into a double cheek cut, which would be an immense amount of time and effort compared to taking some extra out of the seat but some people do it.
He did drop the hip when he drew the plumb line on the common he moved it in 3/4'' and took that meaurment
@@user-vb8yf8be3lI believe he's talking about dropping the height above plate. Because the roof sheathing will actually have to meet a bit higher than height above plate at the center of the hip, unless the top edge of the hip is double beveled to a point
@@gregorsamsa1364 you only need to double bevel if the hip is a 4x when you drop the hip it brings the two edges the same height as the common. the sheeting doesn't touch the middle of the hip. this is because when you nail the hip to the top plate the seat of the hip only touches the top plate at the center off the seat the two sides of the seat are 3/4 back from touching the plate. If you are using a 2x hip rafter
That is how you determine the hip drop But it is always the same on the same slope IE a 4 in common hip is about 1/4 drop but when you get to steep roofs it can be 1./2 drop or more. You may know this the hip and valley are always the same length on the hip you drop it and the valley you continue the seat cut for 3/4'' to drop the valley
v
@@user-vb8yf8be3l right that's what I was saying- the sheathing doesn't touch the center of the hip rafter unless it's beveled, which is why you need to drop the height above plate to make up for that distance between the edges of the sheathing and the center of the hip rafter. But obviously you can just ignore it on a roof in which this distance will be within tolerance
Since you are using 2x6 common rafters I Don think your HAP can be 6 3/4”. I also saw a 2x8 number in you comment about the hip and rafter thickness that may be correct if you are using 2/8 rafter instead of 2x6 as you said. I love your channel and I always look your videos. Please if I’m not right let me know freely. Thanks AEL Construction CA.
You do bring up a good point. The pitch of the roof and rafters sizes can affect other lumber sizes like the hips.
At the upper end of the rafter the 3/4” offset should have been measured horizontally, not along the slope. This caused the hip rafter to be slightly longer than it should be. This is evidenced by the small gap at the seat cut when the hip was installed. This error is more pronounced on steeper slopes.
Maybe you could provide us with the exact difference on a 4:12 roof pitch. I will except a decimal or fraction, thanks in advance.
That makes sense Joe. if you measure 3/4” perpendicular to the plum cut line and not down from the crown of the board. This would shave a smidge more off when making those 45’s on the hip rafter. Great video tks!
@@gregvancom Difference is 0.038” for 4/12
0.126” for 8/12
0.220” for 12/12
@@joefowler3672 Less than 1mm then? (I've converted it to metric for my understanding, as I've never used Imperial, and only quickly in my head whilst reading, so correct me if I'm wrong), is that relevant though? Surely that's well within tolerance?
@@SimonPlatt it is within tolerance for lower pitches but not for steeper ones. Since measuring the 3/4” horizontally is no more difficult than measuring along the slope there is really no reason not to do it and eliminate the potential error.
When I take the measurement for the hip, I always lay out the 1 1/2” on the wall where the bottom of the hip will sit. Then make a 90 degree mark where the outsides of the hip sit on the corner. This is where you want to take the measurement for the hip because the edge of the wall plate is where you want your 6 3/4 rise. You don’t want the rise out on the corner point. That is why you have to “drop the hip”. I hope that helps.
I like it.
Correct! Not doing it that way, actually makes the hip rafter higher than the plane of the common rafters.
I was going to make the same comment. I figured someone had. I prefer to bevel or “back” the top of the hip though. I also prefer the plumb part of the seat cut to be beveled and sit against the wall on both sides.
@@zekefrye706 thats not a bad idea at all. Will give your hip tail a little more strength. We also always bevel the top pitch cut on the hip. In my opinion the fun starts when you have different pitches from the main set to the secondary hip set.
Yes, I’ve done that. I’ve built hipped and valley gambrel roofs that change pitches three times before reaching the ridge. The biggest head scratchers I’ve dealt with were; “supporting valleys” that carry “supported valleys” that were beveled top and bottom to allow for a “no trim” tongue and groove ceiling. The bevels start, stop and change direction at the location of the intersection. “Dog legged hip and valley” rafters, like on a 22.5 degree turn have been a challenge too. Isn’t it a rewarding feeling to pre cut a roof and it all come together..... and embarrassing as can be when you forget one step and the piece won’t work. You did an excellent job on the video. I think most construction workers are visual learners and this is awesome. One small critique that doesn’t matter to some but helps the other trades and I prefer, is to stack rafters directly over studs and studs directly over joists. Thanks again!
Love your video...but I need help. How do you join the common rafters together at the top.?....do you screw them together or nail them.....please show a video of a real pyramid roof....maybe a small dog house one so you dont have to waste alot of material. Where do all the nails and or screws go ??? I dont want my rafters to be structuraly compromised.....thx. Love and God bless....Lisa
I won't be making a video soon, but put your suggestion on my list. This isn't easy, but angle the nails and use building hardware like straps if they will help.
Do you have a video that demonstrates the method for deriving the end cut and seat cut for the common rafters? Thanks for the education.
Dude get the little blue book that goes with the speed square. Wealth of knowledge in it. 👍
@@rexolrexol7893 cool, I make the cord mesurment for the hip from the point the common rafter point intersects the main ridge to a long point right down on the corner of the structures wall, here's where it gets a little hinky only thru experience and some fiddling can you determine the mesurment thru the hip on a plumb line thru the framing member.
To get the angle of any common rafter pitch useing the framing square hold the 2" blade in your right hand and plase the 12" on the outside of the square along the bottom of the lumber place the number of the desired pitch on the outside of the 1.5"blade along the bottom also the angle along the 2" inch blade is your plumb cut this setup makes a rafter with the long point on the left just reverse the square if you want the long point on the right. To get the seat cut measured along the length of lumber on the " crown" or top side square down with your angle and then mark the seat cut so that it has sefitiant depth into the rafter so it won't want to ride up and over the top plate. I make it 1.5" deep and let the seat side of the cut run of the top plate. So square thru on the angle and then square off that line to get the seat . The Swanson blue book has how to get the length of your rafter plumb cut to plumb line at the seat cut. I bought the construction master calculator many years ago and use it for all calculations I need, you cabby updates off the website to bring the device up to date. It also has a booklet with a lot of helpful information.
There is a difference in the height of the two rafters that butt up against the other two rafters that mate together. How do you ascertain the amount of difference that has to be subtracted from the seat cut? Or am I incorrect in assuming that this needs to happen?
All seat cuts should be the same for gable roof and jack rafters.
If you mean dropping the hip.... a hip rafter is cut using 17'' on the square in place of 12'' this is because 17 is the diagonal of a 12 '' square. But if you notice the hip only touches the ppint of a outside corner of a building .. The common touches the plate but this point of a building prevents the hip from touching the plate at the edge of the hip.cut you have to make a mark on the side of the hip at the plumb cut of the hip usually 3.4 '' closer to the ridge and measure the hight above plate at that point. On the valley you would mark the seat cut the same height as the common and then follow that line 3/4 '' more towards the overhang this would allow the hip to move 3.4 '' towards the ridge and also drop the hip
how many diff styles of hip roofs is there? or how big does the building have 2 be in order to have a ridge?
The possibilities for hip roof designs are practically end less and a ridge for a hip roof will be needed when the length of the building is longer on one side.
@@gregvancom do you have more info on this?
If you were to go all the way out to the corner, you need to bevel the top of the hip, if not you need to bring the seat cut back to match the edge of the wall
Great video!
If that's going to be easier then I would say go for it and glad you enjoyed the video.
Subtracting a quarter inch off the heel height on your hip rafter is a good idea. If you don’t, the corners of the rafter are high.
it would chang according to the slope of the roof... The reason I say slope there is no such thing as 4 to 12 pitch
@@user-vb8yf8be3l You’re wrong.
@@scottallen5269 Pitch means the relationship between the span of the building and the total height of the ridge This is a fraction 4 to 12 slope is 1/6th pitch..8'' rise per foot is 1/3 pitch if a building is 24' span and is a 4 to 12 slope total rise of the roof is 4' or 1/6 of the span that is called pitch
does the Hip rafter Always need to be larger that the common rafter? 2x6 common 2x8 hip
For the most part Yes.
It would based on dipping below the 2/3 rule of removing material from the rafter. That will be determined by the common rafter's height over wall plate, which in this video is 6 3/4". When your transfer that height to the Hip, if what remains is less than 2/3 then you need larger lumber for your hip.
at about 4 minutes in you say you use a 2x10 for the hip rafters, but the graphic says 2x8. is 2x8 the correct size?
Common construction practice is to use larger lumber for the hips. For example if I'm using 2 x 6 for my common roof rafters and jack or fill rafters, then I would use 2 x 8 for my hip or something larger like a 2 x 10 or even a 4 x 8 or 4 x 10, depending upon the situation. Let me know this didn't answer your question.
@@gregvancom got it. thanks for the helpful video.
What kind of roof will I get on my shed?
You can use quite a few and here's a link that might help. www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/sheds/index.html
😮
How did you get 6 3/4
It is the amount I cut out of the common rafters. Yours could be different.
Very interesting. Hips have to get dropped so outside edges will be on the same plane as the commons. Formula= Rise divided by 17 multiplied by half the thickness of the hip, =Hip Drop
Or you can just measure down from the top of your hip rafters the same distance that your common rafters land on the top plate and that works great also. And for length of your hip it is one plus a half of what the common rafters hang over.
@@rexolrexol7893 absolutely right
@@rexolrexol7893 but you need to split the thickness of the ridge equally on both sides .so if the ridge is 1 1/2 inches you would subtract 3/4 of an inch from the length of your common rafters length. 3/4 on the right side and 3/4 on the left side of your ridge will equal the 1 1/2 inches which is the thickness of said ridge .and rafters books are different. Empire gives you the length according to a 1 1/2 ridge and Swanson gives the true length of your common rafters that you have to subtract half the thickness of your ridge from your common rafters length.
@@rexolrexol7893 I always carry a swanson book. And for cutting your sets of Jack rafters for the hip if your using a 10 /12 pitch I believe it's 22 7/8 inches you subtract from each jack rafters and they will land 16 inches on center. Some of my comment was talking about how long to cut the tail of the hip rafters to get you facia to land straight and tight on the outside corners.
@@rexolrexol7893 it's way easier to do it than talk about it for sure
I want video for steel diamond
Help me out here, what type of steel diamond?
@@gregvancom rectangle tube or square tube to build diamond roof shade
@@gregvancom especially how to set up the roof
Second set of Rafters should have been 3/4” smaller not 1.5 inches.
Had to get that off my chest. Back to the video.
Well done video!!
He fixes himself on that in the video
Thanks and sometime we've got to say what's on our mind.
He's ignoring half the ridge
Just use a framing square. Sheesh!
And a pencil.
And use math. It works every time. Once you figure out your rafter and hip factors, you can calculate the length of all of your hips and rafters without setting foot on top of your walls. Still a very well done video if you don't want to get into the math. Clear and concise. Nice drawings to go along with it.
🤣🤣
Why 17" and 4"? I don't understand. It is formula?
Those are roof framing ratios specifically for a hip with a 4:12 common rafter ratio. Here's a link that might help www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/math/roof/index.html
Very confusing.
No.
Seriously, just use a framing square and the info embossed on that square. If you don't like math then use the step off method of laying out rafters. My 2 cents.
I wasn't about to suggest this is the easiest method, but another one.
@@gregvancom Cheers and thank you for the videos.
@@rexolrexol7893 all the info that you need to layout and cut rafters is on a proper framing square. Just saying. Cheers
@@rexolrexol7893 I'm not sure what you mean sir. I layout my rafters directly on the boards/ timbers to be used for the rafters. For rafters that there are more than one of I will use the first rafter that I layout and cut as a pattern (such as a common rafters in a hip roof).
@@rexolrexol7893 it's not 19 ft 10 1/2 .it is 20 ft minus 3/4 so 19 ft 11 3/4 .but just measure out 20 ft and cut it 3/4 short .pretty simple.