What I love about machining is there seems to be unlimited options to do something. The vise and vise stops are really cool as well. Always love the content you guys put out and no stale content at that. Much love and gratitude.
Thanks man. That is the part that I love and despise at the same time lol. Sometimes when I have too many options, I get overwhelmed. But the good part about that is you shouldn't ever get stuck to only one way.
Sometimes, I wish I were younger to do more with the things you younger guys have nowadays. I can only imagine what I could have accomplished 40 years ago.
this is very cool. I'm pretty much trying to learn cnc on a HAAS from scratch and from no background with my uncle. So this may have some tips in it for general purposes.
TITANS of CNC Academy also has free CAD/CAM Tutorials, Machining Tutorials, and other CNC fundamentals. If you search this channel, you’ll find helpful information featuring the HAAS control. Hope this helps! academy.titansofcnc.com
I was an old school conventional tool maker/machinist, started working in a tool and die shop while I was a senior in HS, and I also have 10+years of automotive engine remanufacturing everything from big block V8 high performance down to single cylinder dirt bikes and everything in between including Harley Davidson. Hell, I'd love to sweep the floors,empty chip barrels etc just to see the awesome metal devouring machines that are beasts, yet doing that kind of work you rough it off then its finesse no matter conv or CNC, it's just that the CNC world right now is mind blowing to me,.
Nice video, its good to see mass production like this on a 5 axis. I'm curious if you did it with subprogram? I don't see many people using subprogramming when doing 5 axis when they have multiple loadings with the same parts. It would be good to see pros and cons of using subprogramming in a setup like this.
That is a good idea and I am sure there are many people that would do the same. I didn't use any subprograms though. Since it was first operation and I knew my stock is oversized and therefore be a little forgiving with exact placement, I chose to keep it simple and I set only one work offset in the center of the Vero-S pallet. Z0 was the top surface of the Vero-S so bottom of the pyramid. In mastercam I programmed only one part and I used their toolpath transform function to basically copy the toolpath around for all 6 parts. Again, I would only do this for op1 situations since you're not really worried about making micro adjustments to the work offset. If I was doing secondary operations then I would set a work offset for each station individually. As for doing it with a subprogram, I am sure there are some clever ways people incorporate them but honestly I haven't done it myself on mills. Only lathes. The closest thing I get to a subprogram is running macros.
@potatotiel If you haven't read Jessie's reply yet, you can make each part a different work offset (G54-G60) so that you can reuse the same code for a tool to do all 6 parts. Down side is you need to have a program for each tool path which means if you have 10 tools for the job then you need 11 programs in the machine just for the one job. ex (M98 is the code to call a subprogram): G54 M98 P[# of times to repeat][Subprogram #] ... G60 M98 P[# of times to repeat][Same Subprogram] Now my example could be a worse way to do it since I'm just learning it as I'm unsure if there is a way to tell it to repeat using different offsets.
To me subprogramming would be more efficient and you would have less code to do the same work in my experience. But I just noticed not many people using it in examples like Jesse's.
@potatotiel no it depends on how you do it, it wouldn't make more tool changes, but give you less code to do the same work and also allow you to control each part with an offset incase you have inconsistencies in the accuracy of some of the loadings without going back to the CAM system for adjustments. In my experience I haven't seen many multiple loading fixtures not be 100% perfect. There is always a loading or loadings off a few thousandth in X,Y, or Z.
Overall setup time on the job is decreased. You have the load the parts regardless of if you do 1 at a time or 6. In this case you’re doing 6 at a time which means less time spent opening and closing the door and blowing off your parts/vise.
Great video for entertainment But titans want to see how to program somerhing like this, mastercam, please more programming videos with tips.. Coffee table videos good for break time.. Thank you
I love the idea of this system, my question is though, could you load up 6 different parts to cut on each vice and just run them off one by one or does it have to be the same piece?
Yes you can have 6 different parts if you want as long as you watch your clearances. How you load it and program it in CAM software is completely up to you.
kind of reminding me of the cybaman replicator. Must be hard to scale up ,since the design never took off. if its just the pita programming ,lets hope Ai can help with that. lets be fair 6-axis is BA nowadays ,imagine back then.
Flip the part in the vise. You can get several different types of jaws from Schunk for these ksc mini vises. They offer steel soft jaws as well for odd shaped parts like this one. The jaws can be changed out super quickly. Ideally if you had a large volume of parts you would have one pyramid dedicated to op1 and another pyramid dedicated to op2.
One offset is enough, I will pick that hole in the middle and Z0 on the top of that fixture . Rest you can take separate offsets for parts in Mastercam , WCS remains the same , tool and construction plans will be different for different parts or just use toolpath transform . Whichever the way makes you easy . 🙏
Do you already use a Fractal Vice ? If not, making one could be a video idea. I can't watch the video right now, but it'll be the first thing I do when I get home.
Nicely done but I'm sot so sure about your times. 4 minutes cycle time for an individual part, should be a way better collective time for all 6 parts (not 4min x 6parts=24 to 25min?) due to the lack of loading individual parts over and over as well as fewer tool changes, rapids and repositioning for cuts. You should have saved up to 20% on the overall cycle time which IMO is the main reason to go to a multi-part fixture, not just allowing an operator a few minutes to do something else. Lets face it, these machines do not make money unless the spindle is working, anytime the door is open you loose. I love SCHUNK tooling, they make some great product. But keep up the good work, these videos are great.
I’m curious, your machining time is stretched to 24 min. To allow for the operator to work on another machine. How long is the removal/clean/reload time for this fixturing system?
however long it takes you to loosen the vise, remove part, insert raw stock against vise stop and tighten vise again. Shouldn't be more than 10 seconds per vise. In an ideal situation (granted you have enough volume of parts to justify it) you would have a second pyramid outside the machine where the operator can have it loaded and ready to go. Soon as the program finishes, you simply remove the entire pyramid from the machine and add the new one and off you go. Or you have a pallet system where it does it automatically and all the operator has to do is load and unload the stock.
Ok, but what about programming this thing? Do you insert 3D model to CAM software and run everything from just one zero point or do you set different zero points for every part?
Could you give some details about these vices? For how much do you grab the stock and with what force (in kN if possible) are you holding it? Also will those serated jaws "bite" into harder materials like steel or stainless or would you in that case go for dovetail? Cheers!
I use shunk mini vises daily, i clamp aluminium, stainless, titanium, steel all in those 3mm gripper jaws and they will hold basically anything. I have a ksc mini, one size smaller then the one in the video and i can clamp a block of 80x80x130mm (130mm is height) and it holds it with ease. I do mill 2 parralel profiles in center 3mm deep to fit between the jaws since it doesn’t open 80mm.
@@tijmenjoris328 Most of the parts I do are being held in 2 or 3 vices and it's no problem to push the tools.. but everytime I have parts that need to be held for 3mm on a single vice and are tall I go slow and light cuts not to throw the part.. I use hydraulic vices that are capable upto 4 tons of clamping pressure but still it's kinda nerve racking.. can you "go to town" with index cutters when holding parts like that or do you prefer endmills and light cuts?
@@tijmenjoris328 endmills are not so scary to run in my opinion.. even if it pulls the part out, endmill snaps and hopefully thats it.. but running 32mm or 63mm high feed index cutter on the other hand gets my heart rate thru the roof xD and those cutters are sometimes a must for me because of long reach.. anyways thanks for sharing your experience! Cheers!
I guess thats one way to do it, but you guys do know that barfeeders exist right? And just in case someone here knows more than me: Yes there are also barfeeders with A-Axies.
@@Jessie_Smith think of a 5th Axis Lathe with a barfeeder like on a Swisslathe but take away the roundstock for flatstock and think the rest of the machine as a mill. We run a Chiron in our shop but I think Haas also makes or used to make barfeeders. Its perfect for high number production for the same reasons Swisslathes are, plus you can get them as 5th Axies (like our Chiron). Ours works simply by clamping a raw bar in the machine and machining the parts out like you did in the video, second side looks and runs sorta like the subspindle on a lathe, a robot takes out the final part so its entirely hands free. (Edit: Now that I had to look it up it isnt actually all that common, but its one of the best ways to machine anywhere from 10 to howevermany parts you need, since you just have to feed it rawstock and take out finished parts.)
Y'all had a video on 20,000 parts that were created and they were all scrap. I'm guessing that's a couple of million dollars loss. If Y'all are going to spit parts out at high speed and lights out, then wouldn't it also make sense to automate checking the parts so you don't just throw millions of dollars into the toilet? Don't make even 1 part of it isn't checked thoroughly! If you're going to automate spitting parts out as fast as you can then you ALSO need to automate CHECKING parts just as quickly. It's NOT reasonable to expect people to be able to check everything on a machine, every shift. You KNOW those employees would get reamed out for taking too much time to continue the work run on the last shift. Don't put the burden on the shoulders of employees who are expected to run balls out and not slow down, ever! No, the burden in these situations is TOTALLY on management, not the shift workers. If management wants production insane fast, 24/7, then the burden for correct parts falls entirely on management, period! You want insane fast parts then you need to develop insane fast automated machines to check the parts. Please get your head out of your backside and SUPPORT the employees instead of unreasonably expecting them to do the impossible because you want insane fast parts! Back off of your employees and fix the problems created by insane fast parts. You're creating the problem so DON'T dump it on your employees. If an automated part checker machine doesn't exist, then MAKE one! Leave your poor employees alone and you fix this problem that you alone have created by your mania for fast parts!
Nice video Jessie, love the point about the increased cycle time allowing the operator to run multiple machines. Good stuff! 💪🏻
What I love about machining is there seems to be unlimited options to do something. The vise and vise stops are really cool as well. Always love the content you guys put out and no stale content at that. Much love and gratitude.
Thanks man. That is the part that I love and despise at the same time lol. Sometimes when I have too many options, I get overwhelmed. But the good part about that is you shouldn't ever get stuck to only one way.
7:02 that thread mill shot was sooo satisfying! Also good video Jessie!
Sometimes, I wish I were younger to do more with the things you younger guys have nowadays. I can only imagine what I could have accomplished 40 years ago.
this is very cool. I'm pretty much trying to learn cnc on a HAAS from scratch and from no background with my uncle. So this may have some tips in it for general purposes.
TITANS of CNC Academy also has free CAD/CAM Tutorials, Machining Tutorials, and other CNC fundamentals. If you search this channel, you’ll find helpful information featuring the HAAS control. Hope this helps! academy.titansofcnc.com
Great tips Jessie. Awesome vise setup!
Should do a video of setup this fixture in cad and them Probing it into the machine
That is a good idea. I hope to do a video on setup and programming in the near future.
Omg! We so need that for running the parts I'm running now!
Now that's awesome. Definitely a game changer
I was an old school conventional tool maker/machinist, started working in a tool and die shop while I was a senior in HS, and I also have 10+years of automotive engine remanufacturing everything from big block V8 high performance down to single cylinder dirt bikes and everything in between including Harley Davidson. Hell, I'd love to sweep the floors,empty chip barrels etc just to see the awesome metal devouring machines that are beasts, yet doing that kind of work you rough it off then its finesse no matter conv or CNC, it's just that the CNC world right now is mind blowing to me,.
That's so awesome!!!
5:44 like that sneaky chamfer on the boss using the endmill 😉
That was a great video Jessie!
my hero TITAN GILROY
That’s pretty sick.
Hey Jessie, that was a really cool video. I found it to be quite fascinating. The 5 axis is a neat machine to watch.
Very nice!
I see that shiny badge 👀 Thank you for your continued support! We appreciate you! 😊
I would like to see a video on programming in the CAM system and, in principle, on linking each part on the machine.
Academy.titansofcnc.com it’s free
That is a good idea and I hope to go over that with this fixture in the near future.
Always learning. Thank you. Toolpath transform?
TITAN CNC ❤
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Nice video, its good to see mass production like this on a 5 axis. I'm curious if you did it with subprogram? I don't see many people using subprogramming when doing 5 axis when they have multiple loadings with the same parts. It would be good to see pros and cons of using subprogramming in a setup like this.
That is a good idea and I am sure there are many people that would do the same. I didn't use any subprograms though. Since it was first operation and I knew my stock is oversized and therefore be a little forgiving with exact placement, I chose to keep it simple and I set only one work offset in the center of the Vero-S pallet. Z0 was the top surface of the Vero-S so bottom of the pyramid. In mastercam I programmed only one part and I used their toolpath transform function to basically copy the toolpath around for all 6 parts. Again, I would only do this for op1 situations since you're not really worried about making micro adjustments to the work offset. If I was doing secondary operations then I would set a work offset for each station individually. As for doing it with a subprogram, I am sure there are some clever ways people incorporate them but honestly I haven't done it myself on mills. Only lathes. The closest thing I get to a subprogram is running macros.
@potatotiel If you haven't read Jessie's reply yet, you can make each part a different work offset (G54-G60) so that you can reuse the same code for a tool to do all 6 parts. Down side is you need to have a program for each tool path which means if you have 10 tools for the job then you need 11 programs in the machine just for the one job.
ex (M98 is the code to call a subprogram):
G54
M98 P[# of times to repeat][Subprogram #]
...
G60
M98 P[# of times to repeat][Same Subprogram]
Now my example could be a worse way to do it since I'm just learning it as I'm unsure if there is a way to tell it to repeat using different offsets.
To me subprogramming would be more efficient and you would have less code to do the same work in my experience. But I just noticed not many people using it in examples like Jesse's.
@potatotiel no it depends on how you do it, it wouldn't make more tool changes, but give you less code to do the same work and also allow you to control each part with an offset incase you have inconsistencies in the accuracy of some of the loadings without going back to the CAM system for adjustments. In my experience I haven't seen many multiple loading fixtures not be 100% perfect. There is always a loading or loadings off a few thousandth in X,Y, or Z.
Nice work Jesse!!!!
So what's the next step for these parts?
And I love the details about how and why this increases efficiency.
Would be nice to see how you finished that part out in that machine
Did you use work offsets with a zero point for each part or did you use a single zero point for the entire setup?
Cycle time is increased but set up time is also increased. As you need to load 6 parts by hand as well.
Overall setup time on the job is decreased. You have the load the parts regardless of if you do 1 at a time or 6. In this case you’re doing 6 at a time which means less time spent opening and closing the door and blowing off your parts/vise.
Great video for entertainment
But titans want to see how to program somerhing like this, mastercam, please more programming videos with tips.. Coffee table videos good for break time..
Thank you
Great video jessie. I'm expecially intrigued about the stop you made?
Good stuff
I love the idea of this system, my question is though, could you load up 6 different parts to cut on each vice and just run them off one by one or does it have to be the same piece?
Yes you can have 6 different parts if you want as long as you watch your clearances. How you load it and program it in CAM software is completely up to you.
Hey quick question. Could you guys upload the design of the vice stop? Would help me out a lot 😅
kind of reminding me of the cybaman replicator. Must be hard to scale up ,since the design never took off. if its just the pita programming ,lets hope Ai can help with that. lets be fair 6-axis is BA nowadays ,imagine back then.
4mins for 1 or 25 for 6? I've run a similar idea a lot and we're seeing as much as a 50% savings. Gets tricky with true 5 axis parts though
You've finished one side. How do you flip and finish the bottom? Do you use the same pyramid? Or, do you have to use a different fixture?
Just flip the stock over on the pyramid and run a different program for the bottom
Flip the part in the vise. You can get several different types of jaws from Schunk for these ksc mini vises. They offer steel soft jaws as well for odd shaped parts like this one. The jaws can be changed out super quickly. Ideally if you had a large volume of parts you would have one pyramid dedicated to op1 and another pyramid dedicated to op2.
Are you Hiring? I'm a young strapping lad with Progressive Die experience and hungry for OT 😅
Not now but when we do, we always post it in our videos.
Nice video Jessie and a Cool clamping device,
Question, did you put 6 manual offset fixtures or determined with CAD/CAM?
I think 1 offset in CAM
@@owievisie I think also, it would have been nice to had a short CAM explaining edited in the video 😊
One offset is enough, I will pick that hole in the middle and Z0 on the top of that fixture . Rest you can take separate offsets for parts in Mastercam , WCS remains the same , tool and construction plans will be different for different parts or just use toolpath transform . Whichever the way makes you easy . 🙏
Do you already use a Fractal Vice ? If not, making one could be a video idea.
I can't watch the video right now, but it'll be the first thing I do when I get home.
We do not have a fractal vise but we have been discussing making one. Would be cool to have one for sure!
@@Jessie_Smith looking forward to it 🤘🏻
Nicely done but I'm sot so sure about your times. 4 minutes cycle time for an individual part, should be a way better collective time for all 6 parts (not 4min x 6parts=24 to 25min?) due to the lack of loading individual parts over and over as well as fewer tool changes, rapids and repositioning for cuts. You should have saved up to 20% on the overall cycle time which IMO is the main reason to go to a multi-part fixture, not just allowing an operator a few minutes to do something else. Lets face it, these machines do not make money unless the spindle is working, anytime the door is open you loose. I love SCHUNK tooling, they make some great product. But keep up the good work, these videos are great.
I’m curious, your machining time is stretched to 24 min. To allow for the operator to work on another machine. How long is the removal/clean/reload time for this fixturing system?
however long it takes you to loosen the vise, remove part, insert raw stock against vise stop and tighten vise again. Shouldn't be more than 10 seconds per vise. In an ideal situation (granted you have enough volume of parts to justify it) you would have a second pyramid outside the machine where the operator can have it loaded and ready to go. Soon as the program finishes, you simply remove the entire pyramid from the machine and add the new one and off you go. Or you have a pallet system where it does it automatically and all the operator has to do is load and unload the stock.
@@Jessie_Smith Thanks for the detailed response! Looking forward for the next video!
Ok, but what about programming this thing? Do you insert 3D model to CAM software and run everything from just one zero point or do you set different zero points for every part?
6:55 what is that called?
That is a multi-flute Threadmill
Could you give some details about these vices? For how much do you grab the stock and with what force (in kN if possible) are you holding it? Also will those serated jaws "bite" into harder materials like steel or stainless or would you in that case go for dovetail? Cheers!
I use shunk mini vises daily, i clamp aluminium, stainless, titanium, steel all in those 3mm gripper jaws and they will hold basically anything. I have a ksc mini, one size smaller then the one in the video and i can clamp a block of 80x80x130mm (130mm is height) and it holds it with ease. I do mill 2 parralel profiles in center 3mm deep to fit between the jaws since it doesn’t open 80mm.
@@tijmenjoris328 Most of the parts I do are being held in 2 or 3 vices and it's no problem to push the tools.. but everytime I have parts that need to be held for 3mm on a single vice and are tall I go slow and light cuts not to throw the part.. I use hydraulic vices that are capable upto 4 tons of clamping pressure but still it's kinda nerve racking.. can you "go to town" with index cutters when holding parts like that or do you prefer endmills and light cuts?
@@RiseOfSky i try not to use index cutters but endmills full doc and decent radial is no problem! 👍🏼
@@tijmenjoris328 endmills are not so scary to run in my opinion.. even if it pulls the part out, endmill snaps and hopefully thats it.. but running 32mm or 63mm high feed index cutter on the other hand gets my heart rate thru the roof xD and those cutters are sometimes a must for me because of long reach.. anyways thanks for sharing your experience! Cheers!
❤ for india fans ❤ pls support sir
sir please give me one opportunity for working for our shop ❤ from india ❤ for you
How much is this system shunk
What is the air hose thing at 4:24 ?
One is for clamp/unclamp other is for clamp boost.
It costs 70 US dollars to buy exclusive T-shirts in the TITANS mall and ship them to China. The price is so expensive.😭
I guess thats one way to do it, but you guys do know that barfeeders exist right? And just in case someone here knows more than me: Yes there are also barfeeders with A-Axies.
no we have never heard of bar feeders before.
@@Jessie_Smith think of a 5th Axis Lathe with a barfeeder like on a Swisslathe but take away the roundstock for flatstock and think the rest of the machine as a mill. We run a Chiron in our shop but I think Haas also makes or used to make barfeeders. Its perfect for high number production for the same reasons Swisslathes are, plus you can get them as 5th Axies (like our Chiron). Ours works simply by clamping a raw bar in the machine and machining the parts out like you did in the video, second side looks and runs sorta like the subspindle on a lathe, a robot takes out the final part so its entirely hands free. (Edit: Now that I had to look it up it isnt actually all that common, but its one of the best ways to machine anywhere from 10 to howevermany parts you need, since you just have to feed it rawstock and take out finished parts.)
Now do it with one piece flow.
Y'all had a video on 20,000 parts that were created and they were all scrap. I'm guessing that's a couple of million dollars loss.
If Y'all are going to spit parts out at high speed and lights out, then wouldn't it also make sense to automate checking the parts so you don't just throw millions of dollars into the toilet?
Don't make even 1 part of it isn't checked thoroughly!
If you're going to automate spitting parts out as fast as you can then you ALSO need to automate CHECKING parts just as quickly.
It's NOT reasonable to expect people to be able to check everything on a machine, every shift. You KNOW those employees would get reamed out for taking too much time to continue the work run on the last shift.
Don't put the burden on the shoulders of employees who are expected to run balls out and not slow down, ever!
No, the burden in these situations is TOTALLY on management, not the shift workers.
If management wants production insane fast, 24/7, then the burden for correct parts falls entirely on management, period!
You want insane fast parts then you need to develop insane fast automated machines to check the parts.
Please get your head out of your backside and SUPPORT the employees instead of unreasonably expecting them to do the impossible because you want insane fast parts!
Back off of your employees and fix the problems created by insane fast parts.
You're creating the problem so DON'T dump it on your employees.
If an automated part checker machine doesn't exist, then MAKE one!
Leave your poor employees alone and you fix this problem that you alone have created by your mania for fast parts!
Ooh this seems rly cool. Just wondering, how did you finish off that part? Did you need a custom fixture?