Former Jehovah's Witness elder sentenced to 20 years for sexually assaulting two children

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  • Опубліковано 2 лют 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 189

  • @alfred5048
    @alfred5048 11 місяців тому +99

    In my congregation back in the late 90's a CSA victim (a 14 year old) which was 'inappropriately touched' by an elder was blamed for "being too flirty" causing this sick 35-40 year old elder to become aroused. I don't believe she was ever officially ostracized be the elder body in her congregation but she soon became the target of disgusting and unfounded gossip. She finally left the JWs when she turned 19 or 20 after she realized that the disgusting elders in her congregation (and all other congregations) were really not appointed by God as the JW leadership continue to claim to this day. The federal government really needs to put a task force together to investigate the Governing Body of this very corrupt organization.

    • @trilithon108
      @trilithon108 11 місяців тому +13

      That pic of the HQ. You can bet the Governing Body members have the best lakeside views. 😮

    • @rdhawk929
      @rdhawk929 11 місяців тому +15

      I was told at the age of 11 that my dresses were too short and causing an overweight, middle aged, single, obviously gay man who was an elder and self-proclaimed member of the 144,000 to think bad thoughts (he was distracted - which was a lie because he later proved himself to be gay). I felt so humiliated and ashamed I thought I would die.

    • @jmark7390
      @jmark7390 11 місяців тому

      @@rdhawk929 What a minute, your saying a gay guy was turned on by your short dress? Does that make any sense? If its true then you should be proud of yourself for turning a gay man straight again. If you did that they would have sent you to Gilead.

    • @nightmarecorpse5120
      @nightmarecorpse5120 10 місяців тому

      Women cant be elders

  • @joyfuls6859
    @joyfuls6859 11 місяців тому +71

    This cult needs to be closed down,too many victims and too many crimes hidden.

    • @joanferguson4194
      @joanferguson4194 11 місяців тому +7

      You’re absolutely correct, many JWs cultivate an appearance of Christian living and have a very different way of life in private. I’ve tried to talk to my JW brother and an old friend from way back about the abuses I know about and am truly dismayed at their bland and disinterested demeanour. It’s like talking to someone about the weather! They should be outraged that pedophiles are protected by that ridiculous “two witness” rule, they should be angry that victims aren’t believed or dissuaded from reporting these monsters to the police. But most of them are not!
      One of the reasons I left the cult was because of the things I saw and experienced. To this day I’ve met few people as vile and two faced as the Jehovah’s Witnesses I known along the way!

    • @Brandon-uy7bq
      @Brandon-uy7bq 10 місяців тому

      Agreed

    • @Markbot1999
      @Markbot1999 10 місяців тому +2

      Are they worse than the Catholic church? Please let me know. Thank you for your information.

    • @kimgee9
      @kimgee9 4 місяці тому

      ​@@Markbot1999
      Well they certainly have always been very down on the Catholic church so guess what now their sins are coming to light!!
      It's about time!
      They claim to be so pure now look😮

    • @coldboltlighting1237
      @coldboltlighting1237 3 місяці тому

      @@Markbot1999 yes they are it’s a a high control group look up, Steven Hanson former moonies and a professional .

  • @patriciamoore7414
    @patriciamoore7414 11 місяців тому +59

    Thank God for this reporter's tenacity!

  • @NashonOsborne
    @NashonOsborne 11 місяців тому +56

    Thank you for covering this

  • @Siouxie2947
    @Siouxie2947 11 місяців тому +39

    People in México...all places in the world wake up!!! And leave this cult

  • @TallKulWmn1
    @TallKulWmn1 11 місяців тому +28

    Thank goodness you share these stories. It helps victims heal when there is accountability ⚖️

  • @blazingthornbush
    @blazingthornbush 11 місяців тому +50

    Thank you so much for exposing this💖

  • @ronsmith2241
    @ronsmith2241 11 місяців тому +69

    Solution: Leave the JW church right now. Never join them in the first place.

    • @robertgrey6101
      @robertgrey6101 11 місяців тому

      @ronsmith
      To warn prospective members of this
      "C U L T" is to get these news articles on ALL stations, T. V. and radio plus in print on many forms of literature.
      The before also means that social media is integrated with other forms of media to warn people of how evil and manipulative they, Jehovah's Witnesses, are.

    • @joeblog2672
      @joeblog2672 11 місяців тому +7

      Covers both bases. If you're in, get out! If you were never in, keep it up!

    • @melissagray8411
      @melissagray8411 11 місяців тому

      Typical male response. Girls that are born into this mindset are mentally chained.
      I bet your answer to being raped is to simply not be raped.
      (Makes disgusted sound) ....Men.

    • @claricestarling6510
      @claricestarling6510 11 місяців тому

      get out of all religion

    • @jlcole300
      @jlcole300 11 місяців тому

      Paedophilia is rampant in every church. There is supposedly one paedophile every quarter of a mile.

  • @beautyRest1
    @beautyRest1 11 місяців тому +59

    Evil cult!!!

  • @lanceinpants22
    @lanceinpants22 11 місяців тому +76

    This is the dark underbelly of the Jehovah’s Witness Religion.

    • @eba44
      @eba44 11 місяців тому +9

      At this point, I'm trying to think of a Christian religion that hasn't had very big, very bad sex scandals. If I'm wrong, help me out here.

    • @lanceinpants22
      @lanceinpants22 11 місяців тому

      @@eba44 unfortunately you’re right. Organize religion is a breeding ground for this sick behavior. I’m agnostic so please take no offense to my comments if you belong to a church.

    • @ohgawd
      @ohgawd 11 місяців тому +2

      ​@@eba44you're not wrong but the Australian Royal Commission investigation determined no one was as nefarious as the Jehovah's Witnesses. They seem to be a worldwide pedophile sanctuary posing as a religion to get government funding.
      The reason for this conclusion is their investigative policies and procedures which they keep changing after every major public lawsuit. But they refuse to change their policy that the child MUST have an adult witness - other than the perpetrator - to the crime in order to be believed. It's called "the 2 witness rule" and it comes from the Mosaic Law code which was referring to the leaders of the synagogue - not everyone and especially not children being molested! How often does a pedophile take a voyeur to their crimes? Plus, they changed it from simply "2 witnesses" to "adult witness" when children started bringing in their siblings lying in the bed next to them witnessing the whole event. No - children can't convict adults! Not in the JW cult!
      This is why they are worse than any other religion.

    • @alfred5048
      @alfred5048 11 місяців тому +32

      ​@@eba44 true... the difference is that the Jehovah's Witness leadership has had a very long history of covering up CSA while hypocritically criticizing other religions (especially the Catholic church) for doing the same.

    • @eba44
      @eba44 11 місяців тому +3

      @@alfred5048 Was thinking of the Southern Baptist Convention too. And Mormons.

  • @trilithon108
    @trilithon108 11 місяців тому +27

    Pressure should be put on this group to stop the practice of shunning as well.😮

    • @melioratewithnate
      @melioratewithnate 11 місяців тому +12

      The shunning, victim blaming, favourtism, etc. There is nothing christ like about anything they do

    • @joeblog2672
      @joeblog2672 11 місяців тому +7

      Just get everybody out of the cult and then nobody will be able to get shunned. Never never fall into the mind warping clutches of a cult!

  • @jtopdawg6
    @jtopdawg6 11 місяців тому +22

    That whole religion should be sentenced!

  • @kh5603
    @kh5603 11 місяців тому +17

    The C S A coverup in this cult is beyond depravity ... glad to see more monsters getting caught & exposed

  • @davidhill8565
    @davidhill8565 11 місяців тому +36

    This is one reason why I distanced myself from Jehovah’s Witnesses 20 years ago.

  • @VeneGuayaco
    @VeneGuayaco 11 місяців тому +40

    Thank you guys for covering this!. this is the truth about the sect of jehovah's witnesses

    • @robertgrey6101
      @robertgrey6101 11 місяців тому +2

      @ jert
      Sect is wrong !! C U L T is correct.
      A "C U L T" run by men who love to be worshipped as the "faithful and discreet slave class".
      Those who dispense SPIRITUAL FOOD at the propper time.
      Those who have been annointed by Jehovah but are NEITHER INSPIRED NOR INFALLIBLE.
      Jehovah sent the wrong candle which didn't burn long enough or bright enough.
      It is always Jehovah's fault !! Never the fault of mortal men, flesh and blood.

    • @De5O54
      @De5O54 11 місяців тому

      @Jert - Truth.

  • @steann1
    @steann1 11 місяців тому +28

    yay Mark..hard worker for justice.

  • @eileenalexander1440
    @eileenalexander1440 11 місяців тому +16

    Please investigate the GB

    • @melioratewithnate
      @melioratewithnate 11 місяців тому +1

      I'm sure the FBI and others are all over this. They wouldn't raid right away, they'd wait, watch, listen, allow for more incriminating behavior and get a good picture of exactly what is taking place.

  • @kingofthedots3835
    @kingofthedots3835 11 місяців тому +29

    This is little comfort to the unbelievable pain that thousands of witness parents have endured in silence ....under the penalty of ETERNAL DEATH ........you are not allowed to go to the police 😮

    • @melioratewithnate
      @melioratewithnate 11 місяців тому

      What a captive organization. Still, they are brainwashed enough to let their kids die over the whims of a group of old guys in New york via the blood doctrine.

    • @alfred5048
      @alfred5048 11 місяців тому +6

      Actually... not being allowed to go to the police is "Old Light". The "New Light" is that you are now allowed to go to the police but are privately told to consider leaving the matter in Jehovah's hands so as not to "bring reproach to his name".

    • @melioratewithnate
      @melioratewithnate 11 місяців тому +2

      @alfred5048 so why don't they turn in the people from before new light would be the question I have...

    • @kingofthedots3835
      @kingofthedots3835 11 місяців тому +1

      @@alfred5048 thank you for that info Alfred ......Do you happen to know where I can find Batman 😉

    • @kingofthedots3835
      @kingofthedots3835 11 місяців тому

      @@alfred5048 Even Raymond Franzes great niece ,who I happen to know ,was threatened when she and two other sisters tried to go to the police .....this was around fifteen years ago ....or twenty ....she's a fool ...im a fader and she won't talk to me when I come around her husband .....it's retarded ......and we don't use that word anymore either 😵😜🙉

  • @freespirit3891
    @freespirit3891 11 місяців тому +14

    He thought that 20 years was TOO HARSH? He has made those two girls (and who knows how many others) live a LIFE TIME reliving that, and its about time he got punished 😢😠😡🤬

    • @Angry20Something
      @Angry20Something 3 місяці тому

      There was a third known victim and likely many others.

  • @starshine6363
    @starshine6363 11 місяців тому +18

    I hope they keep digging way more people need to go to jail.

  • @harrieelias5756
    @harrieelias5756 11 місяців тому +19

    God has nothing to do with this terrible cult.

    • @paulajay473
      @paulajay473 11 місяців тому

      We are not a cult and yes god has a lot to do with us ,we use his name do you . Someday people will realize how wrong they are about us we cant change everyones mind no matter what we doWe just cant winso we will go on followig god and not worry what people think .I dont understand why people hate ue.We obey the ,we dont drink and drive ,we dont steal we dont commit murder we pay our taxes ,we zre kind to everyone Do we have people that do horrible things of course,but we dont let them stay in our organization we disfellowship them .There is not a religion out there that doesnt have 1 bad person in it not one .just because we follow gods laws is no reason to hate us

    • @De5O54
      @De5O54 11 місяців тому

      @paulajay473 - what you are saying is entirely false. Outright false. The convicted elder in this report is not even disfellowshipped.
      You are either lying or deluded or both. The original posted comment still stands.
      A WT cult leader has left recent, the others in that ‘governing body’ are growing beards now. What you are saying is extremely invalidating to his crime victims. This so-called JW ‘shepherd’ is jailed for several decades. Write to the judge, do not write on here.
      Someday this (tax-exempt) cult will be taken out, sweet dreams and flying machines. They joined the United Nations. Not even regular local parish churches do this.
      You are blatant to excuse criminal behaviour, - *it was ‘congregation records’ which convicted him.*

    • @Chibiwawa
      @Chibiwawa 9 місяців тому

      @@paulajay473hunny, you type like you’re in a cult. Go get your increase your education

    • @kimgee9
      @kimgee9 4 місяці тому

      ​@@paulajay473blah blah blah typical Jehovah witness sticking up for the perpetrators
      The issue is Jehovah witnesses always act like they're above everything and they cut down Catholics left and right
      Now look
      Just because you guys use Jehovah's name does not mean that he picked you
      He was here way before your religion showed up
      Just in case you didn't know you don't own God
      That light just got brighter and brighter didn't it??
      I bet they're asking for massive donations now aren't they??
      Got to pay those attorneys!!
      Got to pay the hush money out to the victims that have settled out of court
      Disgusting

  • @AREWABUKKYAMOS-BELLO
    @AREWABUKKYAMOS-BELLO 11 місяців тому +19

    this is SAD 😢

  • @billwilkinson8609
    @billwilkinson8609 11 місяців тому +10

    " The light is getting brighter ", as it shines on the dark deeds of the Watchtower cult organisation. May many more victims of this hideous organisation have their cases brought to justice.

    • @sgt.v7237
      @sgt.v7237 11 місяців тому +2

      Yes I have a former friend in Florida that chose to have consensual sex with a minor in the congregation. In Florida it's classified as statutory rape if the victim is under 18 and perpetrator is over 24. It was covered up to protect "Jehovah's name" (the organization). He's mad because he still can't even carry a microphone at the meetings.

    • @kimgee9
      @kimgee9 4 місяці тому

      Absolutely I thought the same thing!!
      That light just got very bright indeed!

  • @Arthur-g3s1m
    @Arthur-g3s1m 11 місяців тому +7

    Thank you for sharing this!

  • @sylvanaire
    @sylvanaire 11 місяців тому +32

    I wonder what it is about church leaders of any denomination to perpetrate this kind of crime against their congregants. Does the power of their position just go to their heads? But to abuse 6 yo, there’s got to be more to it than that. Or is it that people who have these tendencies are attracted to leadership roles because they think the churches will protect them? A lot of the time, their not wrong about that.

    • @lanceinpants22
      @lanceinpants22 11 місяців тому +16

      This is such a good question/observation. I was a JW for 37 years. It is a very ancillary community. One that does not trust anyone on the outside. And one who is VERY VERY concerned about their reputation and how they look. People like this know they will have access to children and will have a certain amount of power over the victims because of their position. That plus if they ever get caught the elder body is taught to first call headquarters who will then look up local laws on reporting. If no reporting is required then the CRIME will be handled within the congregation. What ever discipline is handed down in the congregation will to some level protect the congregants but it will do nothing to protect those outside of the religion. The Jehovah witness religion does not encourage CSA of course. But they make it very easy to commit CSA and walk away with a slap on the wrist. Thankfully this piece of shit will get what’s coming to him in jail. Maybe he will get to feel the pain he inflected on innocent children.

    • @robertgrey6101
      @robertgrey6101 11 місяців тому +4

      @sylvanaire
      Their love is not principal love but EROS (EROTIC / PORNEA) to satiate their drunkness with power which has gone to their heads.

    • @joeblog2672
      @joeblog2672 11 місяців тому +3

      @@lanceinpants22 I've never been part of the JW but it is truly obscene that there have been cases where elders on resolution type panels have contained the particular person accused of the abuse! I'm glad you and all others that have, got out of that cult. They don't speak exclusively for God. No one denomination does.

    • @Angry20Something
      @Angry20Something 11 місяців тому +3

      This behavior is extremely common in society in general. It tends to be madly mishandled in tight knit, fundamentalist, purity culture pushing faith communities though.

    • @Discern2025
      @Discern2025 4 місяці тому

      I am a very much devoted JW since 1984. Everyone who knows me also know that I would report a crime 1st to the police and 2ns, the police can infor m the elders In that order.
      The parents should call the police or local authorities first. The elders are not equipped to collect DNA from both but the police has the ressources.
      Elders dont replace police. Someone shoved me with his shoulder once in a tight crowd after a meeting. I warned everyone that if i ever get bruised here, i will call the polce. My husband promised to bruise back. All stay away from me. I am in a foreign country with international members.
      I blamed parents for not protecting their children in order to hold on to some titles.
      I warned anyone with children not to hand over their children to anyone.
      But sometimes, inside those families are some weirdos.
      A mother who doesnt report such crimes on her own children is also weird.

  • @galaxiethinker183
    @galaxiethinker183 11 місяців тому +8

    Shame on their unchristian practices to not report crimes to the authorities

  • @wfsmithiv51
    @wfsmithiv51 11 місяців тому +14

    I was in the same congregation with Ernie Fians’ in Hartford Ct in the early 1970s

  • @williamm6446
    @williamm6446 11 місяців тому +13

    Tip of the ice berg.

  • @CarlStJohn-x9w
    @CarlStJohn-x9w 11 місяців тому +9

    Another tragedy but at least justice ❤

  • @BabyDoll-xx9rk
    @BabyDoll-xx9rk 11 місяців тому +6

    THANK YOU🙏🏿🙌🏿😭😭😭

  • @sgt.v7237
    @sgt.v7237 11 місяців тому +4

    Part of the reason I left recently after being a member for 30 years. After doing forbidden research outside "the organization," I found out about all the flaws in their system. The cover-ups which in fact are directed at the highest level of the organization. They stopped bashing the catholic church when they realized that "God's true organization" was full of criminal abusers too! They're just lucky that my daughter or grandson were not among those who were abused.

  • @robinkish-miller2990
    @robinkish-miller2990 7 місяців тому +2

    These people knock on your door. .....watch out!!!!!!!!!

  • @johnnylafayette
    @johnnylafayette 11 місяців тому +4

    Nondisclosure needs to be banned

    • @De5O54
      @De5O54 11 місяців тому +1

      Very difficult to dispute this.

  • @TheHandsomeman
    @TheHandsomeman 11 місяців тому +6

    Pure shame on the name of god.

  • @ramrod576
    @ramrod576 7 місяців тому +1

    Its hard to say what's worse about the cult. The CSA cover ups or the shunning that kills. Even one of the cult leaders, Stephen Lett, his nephew killed himself because he was was shunned.

  • @awatchmanoftrueisrael
    @awatchmanoftrueisrael 11 місяців тому +6

    Wicked Demons

  • @De5O54
    @De5O54 11 місяців тому +2

    Anyone know JW elder Ernest Fyans.?
    Did he sit on KH judicial committees.?

    • @MeekEarth700
      @MeekEarth700 10 місяців тому

      Google the name; there's a lot of information on him.

  • @shadowdncrb3530
    @shadowdncrb3530 11 місяців тому +2

    So many of us have never/will never see justice for the unspeakable abuse we received from a JW. We rejoice for victims who were able to expose these people for the horrifying monsters that they are. It's a never ending struggle to heal from wounds soul deep. I wish strength, love and undertanding for these beautiful survivors.

    • @kimgee9
      @kimgee9 4 місяці тому

      Me too!
      I literally cried over all of this
      It just brings back all of these memories I was being lied to and believing it all
      And now look. At least some people are getting some kind of Justice
      But it still hurts to know and remember everything that's been taken away and everything that was a lie
      I am thankful that this is all being exposed
      What they have done and they used God's name in the process as if they owned him really angers me
      God does not back this up
      This behavior is despicable to him
      I blame the watchtower bible and tract society because they have fleeced their flock and led them astray
      These were trusting little sheep...
      And they allowed the wolves in to get them

  • @PerlaFigueroa03
    @PerlaFigueroa03 7 місяців тому +1

    And the governor body will cover it by saying to all congregation “they are attacking us like they did with Jesus” 🤮

  • @enough1494
    @enough1494 11 місяців тому +3

    Bobby Leonard a pastor at Baptist Tabernacle, or something like that, told his congregation that is he were a “ juror in a rape case and the woman was wearing shorts he would set the rapist free…men are gonna be me” he preached on Sunday in church.

  • @applebottomjeans7
    @applebottomjeans7 11 місяців тому +1

    I’m glad they got him and he was sentenced to jail!!

  • @MeekEarth700
    @MeekEarth700 10 місяців тому +1

    Romans 13 1 states clearly that such cases should be reported to the authorities. They have no excuse; God's judgement will be upon all JW's that are complicit in hiding these heinous crimes. The irony is, by going against God's Word, they are also apostates, the very description they apply to everyone else.

  • @golong3163
    @golong3163 11 місяців тому +1

    JW leadership victim blames. The crimes perpetrated upon these victims are abhorrent causing lasting effects & trauma. The abuse I experienced as a child from a violent step dad was allowed bc he was “the head of the household” and we “needed to be in subjection”.

  • @GabesWeird
    @GabesWeird 11 місяців тому +8

    This is still happening

  • @michaellee5730
    @michaellee5730 11 місяців тому +1

    Another 'spiritually appointed' man of good standing in possession of the 'truth'

  • @wildbill6366
    @wildbill6366 11 місяців тому +1

    So why was it never reported ? Disgusting ...

    • @courtneythomas8197
      @courtneythomas8197 10 місяців тому

      There was undercover reporter that was investigated the Jehovah witnesses but he vanished two three years ago my mom and I think he dead

  • @johnnylafayette
    @johnnylafayette 11 місяців тому +3

    See a patern yet!. Keep your religious insanity out of politics man

  • @suetrublu
    @suetrublu 11 місяців тому +1

    Wonder how many other victims there are of this man.

  • @jesusislord553
    @jesusislord553 11 місяців тому +1

    The Watchtower Society has a false Gospel that they preach to begin with therefore they tend to have twisted men involved w/ the congregations. I hate to see people potentially turned off to Christ based on what evil men do.
    The actual Gospel "good news" is this....
    "Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day"(1st Corinthians 15:1-4).
    There is NO other Gospel (Galatians 1:7-10).
    REPENT and believe (Mark 1:15).
    No one can keep the moral Law of ten commandments perfectly(Exodus 20)...No one can do any works to meet the utter righteousness and holiness of God except Jesus Christ. That's why He died for us. Paul explained all of this in Romans 3 and Galatians 3 and many false churches like the witnesses focus on the ugliness of the World rather than beginning with THEIR OWN HEARTS.

  • @kleenmaint
    @kleenmaint 11 місяців тому

    The "two witness" rule and hesitation to encourage victims to report to the police is the real problem. All churches have issues not just the J.W.'s, but I do think they should suffer for these two policies as an organization. They should be sued and forced to change their rules. I guarantee they will if their existence is threatened. In that respect they are no different than any other church. They all cave to such pressure. Now as far as confidentiality is concerned that is a different matter in my opinion; however they should never discourage any one from going to the police just because it is a matter that happened within their local congregation. That is so stupid and evil it doesn't even deserve discussion.

    • @kimgee9
      @kimgee9 4 місяці тому

      Yes that two person witness is absolutely ridiculous who witnesses a rape and doesn't report it?
      From what I heard in this Pennsylvania case they say that the second witness can be DNA and if someone took their child right away to the authorities they could actually get DNA evidence but the watchtower bible and tract society talks them out of reporting it
      It makes me sick 🤢

  • @golong3163
    @golong3163 11 місяців тому +1

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!! Do you really think the behavior of this organization is indicative of the divine loving creator Jesus spoke of? I think not

  • @Wrighty1914
    @Wrighty1914 11 місяців тому

    Sexual Abuse happens in all religions regardless of faith Jws, catholics, church of god. Pentecostal etc.
    Don't blame GOD its MAN. Their are people who claim to be holy and religious and hide behind the religion by doing nasty perverted acts at the end if the day GOD will judge he can see everything and everyone even JWs.

  • @markweatherill
    @markweatherill 11 місяців тому +8

    Another true worshipper imprisoned for his beliefs 😇

    • @joeblog2672
      @joeblog2672 11 місяців тому +5

      Beliefs as in 'I can do what I want to whomever and get away with it'. This of course is not conducive to biblical beliefs.

    • @melioratewithnate
      @melioratewithnate 11 місяців тому +7

      No way you're actually defending this guy? Please tell me you're being sarcastic. This is a super cringy comment...

  • @jdrayton7224
    @jdrayton7224 9 місяців тому

    Yeah be these type of things happen in other religions also

  • @MB-lz8do
    @MB-lz8do 29 днів тому

    ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

  • @randallwittman2720
    @randallwittman2720 10 місяців тому

    International conference of jehovahs witness and their apponants q6 holly folk

  • @sarahvodden
    @sarahvodden 11 місяців тому +2

    They need to start also charging the elders who knew but didn’t report to the police. Are they not guilt of aiding and abetting?
    Then and only then will jws MAYBE change their stance on protecting the criminals to try and protect their image in the news.

    • @Angry20Something
      @Angry20Something 11 місяців тому

      Two elders in Illinois have very recently been convicted of violating mandatory reporter law over the known abu$e of a 6 year old girl. Their sentence was a slap on the wrist, unfortunately.