There are a lot of fundemental problems of this traditional upper caste "persecution" narrative pushed by certain Bamon catholics. All mangalore Catholics are not bamons, there are charodis and gowdis as well, not to mention the converts by the Jesuits in the late 19th/early 20th century from South Kanara itself from Koragas and other castes. Mangalore Catholics were mostly a peasant class/caste population which migrated for reasons of famines and wars. Alan Machado himself now rejects the Saraswat narrative. A sizeable section of south indian population have ANI ancestry including BC castes like Ezhavas, and makes no sense to make that claim (which was basically a GSB myth invention), as all that population and various castes would have origins from the North West of the subcontinent. The Inquisition itself was limited in its scope and mostly targeted jews and the new Christians but the scope of the punishments was what could be considered a judicial system based on religion which was the norm at the time and not very different from panchayats. This has been looked into by Alan Machado himself in his latest book on examining primary sources. Even the Tipu persecution is used to spread islamophobia in the community, which was primarily a political question at the time. Being a monarch, Tipu persecuted or allied with groups who allied with him, including giving patronage to temples as monarchs through the ages have done. Here is a great article by researcher Fr Jason Pinto looking into the most recent research kittall.in/29333/
@user-kk5wy4ti3d Indeed mangalore catholics need to identify as a bahujan group but sadly certain dominant caste bamons are very obsessed with their supposed brahmin roots (even thought most of them were tenant farmers or landless farmers 2-3 generations back) so its essential to counter the brahmanical narrative among mangalore catholics
Should read couple of a books written by Portuguese Goan fathers regarding the goan history which covers, Portuguese entry, Conversion, Inquisition, trading, expansion treaty with Marathas etc. available in Menezes Braganza Library in Panjim
Deep respect for Mangalore Christian brethren from a Syrian Christian from Kerala, our ancestors also suffered terribly under islamofascist terror similar to the case mentioned here. You overcame extreme oppression, cruelty and survived!
Islamofascist terror? B, you were forcing lower castes off the side of the road and forcing them to not wear breast coverings barely 100 years ago. Get out of your fake victim complex.
My mother was a Konkani Christian and she married a muslim from UP. She is now a muslim, but I am here to educate myself about her background and history.
There is a book “slaves of Sultan” by Alan machado (his voice only used in this video) nicely written about the history and struggle of manglorean catholics
✨ Sorry but you are very wrong to state that we originated from Goa.... don't forget that we originally settled in Goa n actually came from the banks of river Saraswati... which dried up... all were originally Saraswats....
@@larrends8297 Namaste. Good Day... Mangalore Konkani Christians originate from Saraswat Hindus is an established fact. Sources are there detailing the original Saraswat clan names, before they became Christian ... it is established that my branch of the family are Shets, so I like in some circumstances to add it on.... many from the community do so.... like Prabhu, Nayak, Shenoy, Klamath.... and so on... All the Best. Thanks Regards
That's right. But you have to agree that our ancestors had lived in Goa before fleeing during inquisition. Yes my saraswat name is Kamath from father and Shenoy from mother.
Well, the people who suffered the most during the inquisition of Goa were the Hindus. The Portuguese destroyed many old and revered Hindu temples and forcibly converted Hindus to Christianity..just the way the missionaries do it today. So, whether its Islamists or Portuguese, Hindus suffered the most...and probably are still suffering? Its very conveniently brushed under the carpet. Btw, most of you Christians are converts.
I agree with you - it is given that most of us Christians are converts. But the fact still remains that there are a significant population of Konkani speaking Catholics that also faced persecution from the power-hungry Portugese who would falsely convict the local Christians for heresy/blasphemy through their brutal inquisitions. As for the Hindus, we feel sorry for them as they have experienced a terrible time in history. Temples sure form a big part of Indian culture and by forcefully converting Hindus by destroying their temples was a really brutal move by the Portugese and I feel sorry for them. But I think you are confusing the Portugese with the present day missionaries. Back in the day, the Portugese leaders would easily manipulate the Bible and its teachings to favour themselves and their power hungry colonial mindsets and convert the Christians to stay loyal to them. But in the present day scenario, the missionaries are of Indian blood who spread the Gospel and not lies. I do not condone forcible conversions. It is morally wrong to forcefully convert someone by taking advantages of their economic status, caste status, etc. Freedom of religious expression is a fundamental right in our constitution. So as long as it is not forceful, people have the right to convert to any religion they wish to do so.
@@rentatter_4529 Thanks you very much for acknowledging this. I am really glad that you didn't take it as an accusation. 😊 🙏 I don't hate anyone due to their religion. I just wish people know and accept the truth, no matter how bitter it is. Happy Easter to you. God bless you.
@@dominiquebrodoteau5135are you a goan? Remember inquisition was for baptised catholics an not for other religions an when inquisition started there were second an third generation Christian. Church of goa was formed in 1520 got official recognition from Rome in the year 1533 an inquisition got approval from the Church in 1562. An only those who were baptised as Roman catholics went through this inquisition.
A caste less religion to show the origin In Mangalore area they are called as Parbus, or Prabhu, and in down north of kayanpur are called as Naiks. There was a time that Udupi catholics were not visiting Kalyanpur church. (Ref Na D'souza ) clear cut division between the Bamon, Charodis, gowdies and Desh bhandaries. Later entry kharvi and Mahrs as per their registers. These records are preserved in most of the old churches were written in Portuguese language
Christian population in mangalore is decreasing drasticaly the place where i live it was a christian majority just a decade ago but now the demography is completly changed now it is hindu majority,
knowing so much about Mangalore christians how and why they act and behave as Hindu Haters. Hindu kings in kanara coast did not treat them like the Portuguese treated the Hindus or the neo Christians of Goa still they were into Hindu customs
No statue can attach itself to the ground impossible. What rights do other people of other religions have to colonise and convert people. It is for all people and all religions. Live and let live.
You are wrong to say that Christians from goa fled to karnataka because of inquisition, the people who migrated to karnataka are from bardez taluka. Some of the people were actually taken to karnataka by the landlords from karnataka because of their agricultural skills an many of them followed them. The second reason for migration was because of repeated attacks by the marathas, an when the attacks took place their crops were destroyed an also robbed by the invading maratha soldiers. Unable to face the crop loss an also because of finding it deficult to survive without food those people who's family members were in karnataka decided to join them. If it was because of inquisition they could have cross border an go to neighboring villages of goa which were not under Portuguese rule instead of taking a route to cross from the Portuguese territories like tiswadi an salcette. Remember during inquisition the punishment given was fasting, penance, prayers an even fines but not death penalty. Death penalty were given for criminals.
and, the Konkani-speaking Siddi community of Karnataka were brought in as slaves from Africa by the English. Even though by the time the British established their rule over Karnataka, they had abolished both slavery and slave trade within their empire. Love the catholic church for its adherence to truth.
I want to know why u guys hated tipus inquisition and conversion and not cared abt Portuguese doing the same and left that region and culture behind to go back to Sanatan. Both were foreign and I understand choice but maybe the initial Christian concerts wanted to go back to putting oneself in the same shoes. In that regards Portuguese everything shudnt be accepted ever at all. But I see it’s celebrated with pride.
Catholics made christianitu their own and the catholicism they practise is a combianti9n of Portuguese and Indian cultures. It is not only something different from what Portuguese practise but something that has benefitted and helped catholics as a community. Some people may convert to other religions for their own reasons but as a whole we feel catholicism is something that is ours.
There are a lot of fundemental problems of this traditional upper caste "persecution" narrative pushed by certain Bamon catholics. All mangalore Catholics are not bamons, there are charodis and gowdis as well, not to mention the converts by the Jesuits in the late 19th/early 20th century from South Kanara itself from Koragas and other castes. Mangalore Catholics were mostly a peasant class/caste population which migrated for reasons of famines and wars. Alan Machado himself now rejects the Saraswat narrative. A sizeable section of south indian population have ANI ancestry including BC castes like Ezhavas, and makes no sense to make that claim (which was basically a GSB myth invention), as all that population and various castes would have origins from the North West of the subcontinent. The Inquisition itself was limited in its scope and mostly targeted jews and the new Christians but the scope of the punishments was what could be considered a judicial system based on religion which was the norm at the time and not very different from panchayats. This has been looked into by Alan Machado himself in his latest book on examining primary sources. Even the Tipu persecution is used to spread islamophobia in the community, which was primarily a political question at the time. Being a monarch, Tipu persecuted or allied with groups who allied with him, including giving patronage to temples as monarchs through the ages have done.
Here is a great article by researcher Fr Jason Pinto looking into the most recent research
kittall.in/29333/
@user-kk5wy4ti3d Indeed mangalore catholics need to identify as a bahujan group but sadly certain dominant caste bamons are very obsessed with their supposed brahmin roots (even thought most of them were tenant farmers or landless farmers 2-3 generations back) so its essential to counter the brahmanical narrative among mangalore catholics
Should read couple of a books written by Portuguese Goan fathers regarding the goan history which covers, Portuguese entry, Conversion, Inquisition, trading, expansion treaty with Marathas etc. available in Menezes Braganza Library in Panjim
Deep respect for Mangalore Christian brethren from a Syrian Christian from Kerala, our ancestors also suffered terribly under islamofascist terror similar to the case mentioned here. You overcame extreme oppression, cruelty and survived!
Islamofascist terror?
B, you were forcing lower castes off the side of the road and forcing them to not wear breast coverings barely 100 years ago. Get out of your fake victim complex.
Your ancestors suffered severely by Tipu because you people were collaborators with British regime.
You guys are not happy where you are in majority. But happy and prospering in countries where you are minority like USA, European Union, India etc
They also suffered from the Portuguese persecution. Almost all Schism in Syrian Christians of Kerala were thanks to the Portuguese persecution.
But remain as Hindu Haters and support Muslims today
I had no idea about our ancenstorial roots until I found your video, mad respect to you sir! Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
My mother was a Konkani Christian and she married a muslim from UP. She is now a muslim, but I am here to educate myself about her background and history.
great surprise, no problem both are Abrahamic religions with little change
Very informative video. I finally have some idea about my ancestors origin and their stories. Thank you.
There is a book “slaves of Sultan” by Alan machado (his voice only used in this video) nicely written about the history and struggle of manglorean catholics
Thank you so much for informative video
Getting married into Mangalore Konkani family, was a must watch for me, thank you
How's married life? 😅 God bless and all the best.
@@JohnFernsYT Thank you 🤗
I love U all I m from GOA my name João Raposo l m in UK ( London)
Very informative 👍🏽 thank you Sir!
✨ Sorry but you are very wrong to state that we originated from Goa.... don't forget that we originally settled in Goa n actually came from the banks of river Saraswati... which dried up... all were originally Saraswats....
Their history starts with arrivals of Christians
Hello Mr Ivan
I see that you use shet as your surname, could you tell me a bit about it.
@@larrends8297 Namaste. Good Day... Mangalore Konkani Christians originate from Saraswat Hindus is an established fact. Sources are there detailing the original Saraswat clan names, before they became Christian ... it is established that my branch of the family are Shets, so I like in some circumstances to add it on.... many from the community do so.... like Prabhu, Nayak, Shenoy, Klamath.... and so on... All the Best. Thanks Regards
That's right. But you have to agree that our ancestors had lived in Goa before fleeing during inquisition. Yes my saraswat name is Kamath from father and Shenoy from mother.
Well, the people who suffered the most during the inquisition of Goa were the Hindus. The Portuguese destroyed many old and revered Hindu temples and forcibly converted Hindus to Christianity..just the way the missionaries do it today.
So, whether its Islamists or Portuguese, Hindus suffered the most...and probably are still suffering? Its very conveniently brushed under the carpet.
Btw, most of you Christians are converts.
I agree with you - it is given that most of us Christians are converts. But the fact still remains that there are a significant population of Konkani speaking Catholics that also faced persecution from the power-hungry Portugese who would falsely convict the local Christians for heresy/blasphemy through their brutal inquisitions.
As for the Hindus, we feel sorry for them as they have experienced a terrible time in history. Temples sure form a big part of Indian culture and by forcefully converting Hindus by destroying their temples was a really brutal move by the Portugese and I feel sorry for them. But I think you are confusing the Portugese with the present day missionaries. Back in the day, the Portugese leaders would easily manipulate the Bible and its teachings to favour themselves and their power hungry colonial mindsets and convert the Christians to stay loyal to them. But in the present day scenario, the missionaries are of Indian blood who spread the Gospel and not lies. I do not condone forcible conversions. It is morally wrong to forcefully convert someone by taking advantages of their economic status, caste status, etc.
Freedom of religious expression is a fundamental right in our constitution. So as long as it is not forceful, people have the right to convert to any religion they wish to do so.
@@rentatter_4529 Thanks you very much for acknowledging this. I am really glad that you didn't take it as an accusation. 😊 🙏
I don't hate anyone due to their religion. I just wish people know and accept the truth, no matter how bitter it is.
Happy Easter to you. God bless you.
@@dominiquebrodoteau5135 Thanks! Happy Easter :)
@@rentatter_4529... Thankx for accepting the truth dear... May God bless U
@@dominiquebrodoteau5135are you a goan? Remember inquisition was for baptised catholics an not for other religions an when inquisition started there were second an third generation Christian. Church of goa was formed in 1520 got official recognition from Rome in the year 1533 an inquisition got approval from the Church in 1562. An only those who were baptised as Roman catholics went through this inquisition.
Kindly Make more videos on this
A caste less religion to show the origin In Mangalore area they are called as Parbus, or Prabhu, and in down north of kayanpur are called as Naiks. There was a time that Udupi catholics were not visiting Kalyanpur church. (Ref Na D'souza ) clear cut division between the Bamon, Charodis, gowdies and Desh bhandaries. Later entry kharvi and Mahrs as per their registers. These records are preserved in most of the old churches were written in Portuguese language
Thanks for sharing ❤🎉
Beautiful
Christian population in mangalore is decreasing drasticaly the place where i live it was a christian majority just a decade ago but now the demography is completly changed now it is hindu majority,
Explore Golgumbaz with Guide Jahangir
The Cristians has cast system?
Too long to explain in comments. Hopefully this article helps en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Christians
@@TheCreditLife can you send it in kannada
knowing so much about Mangalore christians how and why they act and behave as Hindu Haters. Hindu kings in kanara coast did not treat them like the Portuguese treated the Hindus or the neo Christians of Goa still they were into Hindu customs
Hello
I love u l m GOA
Sir i belong to.gsb community of goa
We also suffered atrocities under Portuguese
No statue can attach itself to the ground impossible. What rights do other people of other religions have to colonise and convert people. It is for all people and all religions.
Live and let live.
I know d real story now I love u all
You are wrong to say that Christians from goa fled to karnataka because of inquisition, the people who migrated to karnataka are from bardez taluka. Some of the people were actually taken to karnataka by the landlords from karnataka because of their agricultural skills an many of them followed them. The second reason for migration was because of repeated attacks by the marathas, an when the attacks took place their crops were destroyed an also robbed by the invading maratha soldiers. Unable to face the crop loss an also because of finding it deficult to survive without food those people who's family members were in karnataka decided to join them. If it was because of inquisition they could have cross border an go to neighboring villages of goa which were not under Portuguese rule instead of taking a route to cross from the Portuguese territories like tiswadi an salcette. Remember during inquisition the punishment given was fasting, penance, prayers an even fines but not death penalty. Death penalty were given for criminals.
Correct, Alan Machado himself has established this with this latest book
It was attack on 1664 in kudal, town of North Goa, lost part of North Goa
and, the Konkani-speaking Siddi community of Karnataka were brought in as slaves from Africa by the English. Even though by the time the British established their rule over Karnataka, they had abolished both slavery and slave trade within their empire. Love the catholic church for its adherence to truth.
I want to know why u guys hated tipus inquisition and conversion and not cared abt Portuguese doing the same and left that region and culture behind to go back to Sanatan. Both were foreign and I understand choice but maybe the initial Christian concerts wanted to go back to putting oneself in the same shoes. In that regards Portuguese everything shudnt be accepted ever at all. But I see it’s celebrated with pride.
Catholics made christianitu their own and the catholicism they practise is a combianti9n of Portuguese and Indian cultures.
It is not only something different from what Portuguese practise but something that has benefitted and helped catholics as a community.
Some people may convert to other religions for their own reasons but as a whole we feel catholicism is something that is ours.
Amen thanks for video