I think the main issue I could see with the “just climb” group, is what are they climbing? You even show a clip of someone climbing, but they’re on a slopey, pinch climb. Most commercial gyms aren’t setting a ton of crazy crimpy, finger intensive climbs anymore. I think you’d need someone who’s “just climbing” on 20mm or smaller holds mainly. I also am not sure that 2-5% is enough difference to show effect, and couldn’t be attributed to other factors from each group Also, very little climbing looks like hanging from a 20mm flat edge. Was there any data showing this increase transferred to climbing?
Europe still sets a lot of crimp ladder routes in the gym. The setting style is slowly changing. But the point being, "just climbing" is treated as a control. Just climbing will help you get better at climbing, but training should help you get better faster. 2 - 5% doesn't sound like much difference in a vacuum, hence why statisticians have come up with ways to test "effect size" (Cohen's d in the paper). No-hangs and max hangs showed a medium effect (i.e. in giving a similar result) while the combined no-hang and max hang showed a large effect. So what Dr Baar says when he says that they are they same, he means from a statistical point of view. Sprinting also doesn't look like squats or deadlifts either yet most, if not all, football players put up large numbers in those exercises. Would be nice to see if there is data showing the transfer though.
Yeah I think the just climb group should actually be 'just training boards' like MB, Tension, Kilter, etc. Since those boards are very finger intensive. But I think the idea was, almost EVERYONE at climbing gyms always say "yeah just climb and your fingers will get stronger". Which I think might be true for very beginner climbers, but will definitely see a drop off.
tldr; "no hangs" and "max hangs" are not statistically different in terms of one being more beneficial than the other. So do whichever one you want. And if you do both, you might get slightly more gains. In other words, the results is basically what most people already knew.
I think the biggest difference is the accessibility for both. Whether your constraints are time (only time to do max hangs) or resources (can only hang at home on cheap apartment frames, or don't have weights) the research now shows that both are viable. It's just good to know that you're not wasting your time with whichever one you do!
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Can I just say I love the name 'Abrahang' that has clearly snuck into his vocabulary.
I think the main issue I could see with the “just climb” group, is what are they climbing? You even show a clip of someone climbing, but they’re on a slopey, pinch climb. Most commercial gyms aren’t setting a ton of crazy crimpy, finger intensive climbs anymore. I think you’d need someone who’s “just climbing” on 20mm or smaller holds mainly.
I also am not sure that 2-5% is enough difference to show effect, and couldn’t be attributed to other factors from each group
Also, very little climbing looks like hanging from a 20mm flat edge. Was there any data showing this increase transferred to climbing?
Europe still sets a lot of crimp ladder routes in the gym. The setting style is slowly changing. But the point being, "just climbing" is treated as a control. Just climbing will help you get better at climbing, but training should help you get better faster.
2 - 5% doesn't sound like much difference in a vacuum, hence why statisticians have come up with ways to test "effect size" (Cohen's d in the paper). No-hangs and max hangs showed a medium effect (i.e. in giving a similar result) while the combined no-hang and max hang showed a large effect. So what Dr Baar says when he says that they are they same, he means from a statistical point of view.
Sprinting also doesn't look like squats or deadlifts either yet most, if not all, football players put up large numbers in those exercises. Would be nice to see if there is data showing the transfer though.
Yeah I think the just climb group should actually be 'just training boards' like MB, Tension, Kilter, etc. Since those boards are very finger intensive. But I think the idea was, almost EVERYONE at climbing gyms always say "yeah just climb and your fingers will get stronger". Which I think might be true for very beginner climbers, but will definitely see a drop off.
Thank you ! Is the "no hang" protocol standardized yet ? Is it available somewhere ? Thanks again for the great content
yeah on the Crimpd App
Emil the king of clickbait
tldr; "no hangs" and "max hangs" are not statistically different in terms of one being more beneficial than the other. So do whichever one you want. And if you do both, you might get slightly more gains. In other words, the results is basically what most people already knew.
I think the biggest difference is the accessibility for both. Whether your constraints are time (only time to do max hangs) or resources (can only hang at home on cheap apartment frames, or don't have weights) the research now shows that both are viable. It's just good to know that you're not wasting your time with whichever one you do!