Once again, you have not won a prize. It's a scam. Also, the reason I advise against dropping a round into the chamber is the potential of damage to the gun (the extractor isn't really made to work that way) and increasing your chance of malfunction.
loaded in the house? is she nuts. all my guns are loaded....not racked...and under my pillow...and i sleep with them lit 1 foot away if not under me. u wont catch me assembling a wep/unlocking a safe when people break it.
Paul, you might enjoy this little story. You made me think of it when you mentioned "green" ammunition. Back in the early 80's I was running a handgun re-qualification. This one was set up so on-duty deputies could drop by the range and shoot their score and get back on the street. One deputy came to the firing line and his S&W Model 66 simply would not function. It was locked up tight. We issued him another revolver and i took his back to repair it. I didn't see anything wrong on visual inspection, but did notice an oddly familiar and fairly pleasant odor coming from the revolver, but not an odor I associated with firearms. I couldn't quite place it. When I finally got the cylinder out and side plate off, I found the action full of a green and white substance that was hard as a rock. And I immediately located the source of the smell. It was toothpaste that had been liberally loaded into the action and allowed to harden. I called the deputy immediately to ask if he knew how toothpaste got into his gun. He said that he had cocked his revolver's hammer and squeezed it in that way. After a bit of silence on my end, I asked him why he would have done that. He said that when he qualified the year before he hadn't done as well as he would have liked, and another officer had told him that if he put abrasive toothpaste inside the action it would smooth everything up and the gun would shoot better. I guess he missed the part about removing it. What was worse is that his revolver had not been fired in a year, and probably would not have fired in an emergency. I thought you might enjoy this one because it might be one of the few times that your two interests in firearms and dental hygiene could overlap.
Once a customer called and said that their restaurant door wasn't working properly. So we went there and immediately realized it is a problem with the floor spring. When we opened it up we saw that it was totally gummed up with ketchup. They thought it would be a great lubricant. Not to mention that they had big bottles of frying oil, olive oil etc (which would have been a bad idea, too). No, they had to try ketchup.
@@worldoftancraft I wouldn't call him average. I'm well below average and I actually own and use proper cleaners and lubricants for my firearms. I think a better description for Colgate Boy's proficiency level would be "dumbass".
I like the "rotate your ammo at the gun range" approach. As the ammo gets older/used you get a chance to be better at the range. Without the I'm wasting money problem.😇
Exactly right. After 15-30 times chambered, fire it at the range. Sooner depending on guns like the Bersa. People don't like to shoot defensive rounds often because they're pricey. People shoot shoot their defensive rounds more often despite being pricey.
Don't buy expensive ammo. Durable, subsonic, 230-grain ball ammo makes a big enough hole/tissue shock and is range & financial friendly. Historic Filipino Warriors on enhanced folk medicine provided the proof in concept a long time ago. Otherwise, thank goodness most of them don't want to murder & barbecue Europeans for invading their lands anymore. The .45 ACP is all about defense from crazy humans, so why accept anything less in close combat?
Exactly what I do... even on some of my iffy rounds that look like the bullet may have sunk slightly into the case, I'll just fire them off at the round.
If it's a concern, simply keep an empty and marked tray in your drawer along with a fresh box. Place the ejected round into the marked box (for range use) and reload your mag with a fresh round from the "new" box. Your EDC is 100% and you're going to need range ammo anyway. A little case or projectile wear shouldn't matter, but if it does... better to find out at the range than when you're trying to make smoke in a SD situation.
When SD rounds are more than $1 thats kinda ubsurd. You could buy a set of calibers. Measure for setback and still save $ with the cost of the calibers included
I've known guys like that but it seemed excessive for me. I don't unload my carry guns other than for cleaning or range trips so that helps reduce the problem. When I load them I usually rotate to a different round in the mag and make sure they look OK. I replace the carry ammo every couple of years at most.
@@mattmarzula It's not good for your extractor. There are videos explaining why, just look for yourself, that's why why Paul said he wouldn't do it in THIS video.
Well said. I'm thankful for the noncoms that cared enough for their own safety(and that of others😉), to explain these types of things to the "uneducated" . Thanks Paul, we owe you a lot.
Not just an Uncle, but everything my dad taught. I've had tot unlearn damn near every bit of misinformation he's ever shared. It's so refreshing to learn from people with actual experience versus a self proclaimed know it all.
One thing I would add... I think it is a good idea to periodically confirm that your carry gun functions with the ammo you're carrying, and that you can shoot that ammo to point of aim. Shooting the magazine you've been carrying for six months solves a lot of problems. And it's fun.
I’m newer into owning guns but have general knowledge, should I be practicing with my edc, or have two of the same platform one for practice and one for carry? I’d never mind owning another p365 lol
@@seagreen01 MHO you shoot what you carry, it would be n ice to own 2 of the same guns but, even if you do no 2 guns will shoot the same, close, but not the same. You aint gona wear your EDC piece out shooting it
@@seagreen01 If its a new gun it's probably best to maintain using that one to break it in. The metal-to-metal contact parts have to find their own, similar to a new car engine.
@@seagreen01 I practice with the EDC gun as a way to make sure it functions. Practice mag changes to make sure they all function. When your carry ammo gets to be over a year old, shoot it and get a fresh batch.
I bought a crate of cheap Chinese made 22LR at the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife show back in the early 2000s. It worked out to be 2 cents per round. I was "king of the show" after that purchase. Thought it was the deal of a life time. I would never have to buy 22LR ever again. Well...not so much. The brass was so thin that the force of pushing them into the magazine made them oval shaped. Then the powder would leak out because there was no longer a tight fit to the bullet. So I could not use them in magazines. Just revolvers. Well, the issue there is when you did manage to get one to fire, the case would expand so much that you could not get the empty cases out with the extractor. I had to use a screwdriver to pop each one out they were so tight. On top of the normal no fires you get with rimfire, this junk was tickling the 40% no fire rate. Almost half. Just pathetic. But I learned a lesson. Never again.
@@platinumbrick6 I didn't quite get that far, but it would not have surprised me. You know it's literally a powder keg when you tip the empty mag upside down and powder falls out. Whoa Nellie!
@@se7enthedge382 Absolutely. And I knew that going in, but I figured for backyard plinking ammo, how could I go wrong? Well, turns out that when cheap = junk, it's worthless
@@se7enthedge382 not true my friend. Some of the best Ak's and sks pattern rifles and many more are some of the highest quality firearms and some decent ammo. While that might not always be true and there are some bad examples of Chinese ammo and weapons many of them are great quality.
Anyone who reloads can tell if a bullet has been set back just by looking at it. I can tell the difference in about 4 thousands of an inch in bullet seating depth with my eyes. 😆
Great vid. I worked in and managed a gunshop in CA for many years (finally escaped Californication). Every day, as guys came to work, they got out their pistol and loaded it to carry for the day in the shop. Every night before leaving, they would unload it. One day I asked the guys to see their ammo. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ROUND THEY WERE ABOUT TO CHAMBER WAS SET BACK INTO THE CASE to varying degrees. Setback can cause higher pressures and CAN be quite dangerous. It never hurts to inspect your ammo! And rotate it out (by shooting it) every once in a while.
I am so grateful that Harrell does these oddball presentations... where else would you find UA-cam videos on this specific topic? Or other oddball topics like “does slamming the slide down on an empty chamber cause any noticeable/considerable wear on a firearm?” Or “does built up lint in your firearm cause reliability/accuracy issues?” Things we rarely see testing or talking points on... thank you P. Harrell for these presentations.
If chambering a round was in some way supposed to cushion the slide slamming forward, to such a degree that slamming it forward on an empty chamber was bad for the gun, then you would see parts of the brass that get squashed by that force dissipation. Sure there's a bit of friction in stripping a round off the mag and getting it into the chamber, but it's probably barely taking the edge off of the force the slide has in a properly operating pistol. Remember, the recoil spring is absorbing a large portion of the force of the actual round being fired, and it's strength is suited to that job. The recoil spring is seriously overkill if it only needed enough force to chamber a round. Sure some weird rounds will catch while feeding in some guns and a dirty gun will add friction, but these guns are designed to take the full force of that slide while it's clean, not while it's slowed by something. I would expect that it is ever so slightly harder on the parts to slam the chamber forward on an empty chamber, but probably nowhere near enough harder to make it worse than the slide slamming forward with an actual round several times. So unless you slam your slide forward unloaded about as often as you do loaded, I wouldn't worry about what it's doing to the gun. Pistol actions are not gentle operations, so any quality pistol expected to endure tens of thousands of rounds or more with only minor replacements won't even notice you closing the slide on nothing here and there.
My dad was a "once it's been chambered, throw it away" guy, because that's what the guy at the gun store told him. I have converted him to a "once it's been chambered, retire it to the range bucket" guy. I will let a round get chambered a few times. I'll mark it with a Sharpie when I unload it, and when it gets its third mark, it gets used for practice. Three or four times being chambered is low-risk, but only you can determine your level of comfort. That is mine.
You're the only other person I've met that does that(besides critical duty/defense... Ive chambered a 9mm glock and 380 lcp over a dozen times to see what'd happen, no change ymmv)
Since you're not in a gunfight when you're loading your carry gun, simply ride the slide home and make sure it's fully in battery, congrats, you've chambered the round without subjecting it to the forces of the slide under spring pressure.
The “rotation” suggestion is probably your best solution to prevent funky rounds. The department I worked for had us fire the old issued carry ammo during qualification and some officers had feeding issues. A quick inspection of the cleared rounds showed rounds that were chambered and ejected dozens of times.
A simple way to do this would be to use a special marked magazine (perhaps you paint the floorplate red, blue, green, whatever) which you use for chambering a round, then use another one for carrying with it. Eject the once chambered rounds into a box marked "Chambered", then when your chambering magazine is emptied, reload them into the chambering magazine. Depending on the size of the magazine you use for carry, and how often you unload your gun (some do it daily), have something to act as a counter for the box to signify how many times that lot of cartridges have been cycled. That way, you'd even out the wear on cartridges by 7, 10, 12, 15, 18 times, etc, rather than chambering, extracting, and ejecting a single cartridge a whole dozen or two times. That way, when it's time to replace your carry ammo, you could go and shoot up the less worn ammo at your range with less risk of problems. You'd also avoid the chore of emptying a magazine manually to reload it with the chambered round in the bottom.
Rotation with a fresh box sounds great! Because of our gunlaws we only have the duty-ammo we carry with us. With no chance to get more ore buy fresh ones. 😩 You can't get our duty-ammo at the free market anyway. You just get the bullets replaced you had to use.
My agency also used duty ammo for qualifications. In my state, that was 25 rounds. When I was in charge, I also had my guys shoot the rest of their duty ammo, another 25 rounds every December. We started each year with fresh ammo.
An advantage of using the carried ammunition for qualification is that in the real world your carried ammunition is what you'd fire in a gunfight, not a fresh box of cartridges loaded a moment before into clean magazines. If you're getting feeding issues, then administrative procedures need to change--and your department's collective experience with fatigued ammunition fired on the range was proof of that need. And you now have the solution--inspect, discard (or turn in) damaged ammunition, replace.
10:05 Anecdotal Alex time: Once I chambered a round in an SKS by hand (had no magazine available). I let the bolt go forward on its own and accidentally (or negligently depending on how you see things) sent a freedom seed zooming off into the distance. From what I could gather online, Free floating firing pin+no magazine = ND Thank you for attending my Ted talk
You can usually use equipment that is no longer 100 % for training purposes. Just put the older amunition into a seperate magazine and use it on the range where your life doesn't depend on it. EDIT: Obviously use common sense as always in life.
@@uclajd I think that Peter’s point is to put any cartridge that’s been chambered X times into a training bin. Depending on your gun and ammo X might be 1 or it might be 10, but it should be *before* any risk of significant setback, etc. occurs.
@@uclajd Okay, put it in a special box where you can take it to the range - and have hall the time in the world to inspect your rounds for that kind of damage - while your life doesn't depend on it. If loading a round _once_ can cause dangerous levels of damage, something else is wrong with your gun (or your ammo is actually tinfoil wrapped chocolate). In that case you'll be glad that you had a look at each individual round; instead of just shoving that round back into its top spot of the magazine in the late evening, after a long day at work, when you'd much rather be indoors already.
@Mark Berenger I think Pysto is *agreeing* with your position; you both seem to be saying the described situation should not happen. I'd go further and say that *if* chambering a round a few dozen times leads to an unsafe (as in boom) situation, something wasn't designed or built correctly. The case shouldn't easily allow a bullet to be compressed enough to significantly increase chamber pressures. A gun should not fail, even with a significant increase in chamber pressure (designed operating pressure should be significantly less than burst pressure). That said, it's fully possible that situation could lead to malfunctions, other reliability issues or changes in accuracy, even with well designed components.
@Peter Pan, don't listen to the Captain Hooks of the world trying to put you down. You made a good point and people can use common sense to think through what else they might need to do before using the equipment.
We're issued a duty weapon at my workplace. We've had problems with not only repeatedly chambered rounds, but also with deformed cartridges from some people repeatedly trying to load full mags on a closed slide. Our practice is to cycle through which mag we load up at the start of each day, every month or two empty the mags and shuffle the rounds, and then at our yearly requal the first thing we do is blow through that year's issued duty ammunition, and are issued new rounds when we're done.
The part about PMCSing your carry is so underrated. Clearing the weapon and doing a quick check and wipe down only takes a couple minutes and ensures everything has the best chance at working as advertised when you need it.
I test my carry pieces for live fire reliability after a years worth of lint, hair, dead skin cells and sweat. Then clear, clean, oil and repeat every 3 to 6 months. In order to form a baseline time frame for PMS one must evaluate minimum and maximum normal operating parameters. If you tell me you clean your gun every week you're just playing with it AND your PMS will get gundecked at some point.
@@PBVader I concur. A semi regular scheduled ‘test firing’ and thorough cleaning afterwards will reduce the chances of holding on to a damaged round, ensure the weapon will function properly if called for, provide essential training, and last but certainly not least… is fun and a huge confidence builder.
We are anal about cleaning our firearms, we believe a clean gun is by definition more reliable...the carry ammo gets shot out once or twice a year (we're revolver people, but the ammo still gets exposed to the weather)...I cringe listening to folks bragging about never cleaning their firearms...
@@-_-_-_-318 I wasnt just thinking it i was cleaning up and had just picked some up and was inspecting it and thinking about the fact that some of the projectiles seemed to be pushed back into the case and was wondering about an increase in pressure it may cause.
There was a case of a cop who had a "click" event and got shot by the perp.The investigation showed that anvil and the cup separated in the primer, the wife told the investigator that the cop unloaded and loaded the ammo on the magazine daily, the constant slamming over time caused the separation. The procedure that works for me on my p226, ball ammo (under 2000 fps hollow point does not perforate effectively) every 3 months used it up at the range, field strip weapon, clean, with barrel in my hand insert new round in chamber verify ease of entry and falling back out, insert in magazine, repeat for all rounds, resemble weapon, insert magazine, charge, decock and holster. Maybe overkill, works for me. Thanks for the great video Paul
This is an important topic and I’m glad Paul made a video about it. When I was traveling often, for various reasons I would have to leave my firearm in a hotel room. I was never comfortable leaving a loaded firearm at a hotel and always unloaded it. The wear and tear from cycling a round after returning from a meeting, the beach, dinner, etc, seemed excessive. Over time, some rounds did become compressed. Eventually I settled on a J-frame revolver for travel. Thank you Paul for another informative video.
Thanks for posting this. The difference between first hand experience(good) and anecdotal evidence (considered weak) seems to be in what color a person wants to paint a situation as. I don't know about others, but I'd rather listen to experience over theory any day.
Can't believe I'm seeing this video today. Had this EXACT question regarding my Colt Government Model, and here Paul is demonstrating one! I have noticed that my cheapo remanned loads get scarred up reloading, so I've been leaving one of those on top and JPH underneath. If I forget to swap mags at camp? I only wasted a single crappy round! (Hopefully...)
As I have used weapons professionally for three years now ,and have owned them personally for longer, I like to heavily advise against unnecessary gun handling. It is as much a safety issue as it is a readiness issue. Every time you handle a weapon you have an opportunity for a discharge of some sort. This can be voluntary or involuntary, deliberate or accidental or negligent. As every gun owner with enough experience does, at some point while handling your weapons you will get an uninventional discharge at least once in your life. Modern weapons and ammunition are made to exceptional safety standards, meaning apart from a perfect storm of mechanical error, near certainly this unexpected discharge was caused by you pressing the trigger in some way when there was a round chambered. Therefore the best way to avoid this is to reduce the opportunities this has to happen, which means reducing how much you handle your gun. No handling, no opportunity for discharge. You should only handle your weapon when you are at a range taking your shots, in danger using it for serious purposes, performing maintenance, or transferring to a new carry/storage position. The readiness issue is also a valid concern. Quickly grab your nearest firearm, fiddle with it for a minute, put it away, and then tell me two minutes later its exact condition. Will it absolutely yes or not go bang if you pull the trigger right now? Are you sure? Is there no way you could’ve accidentally done something or been mistaken? You’re most likely you forgot something or didn’t know something for sure following that quick exercise. This is why I recommend that you handle your weapon as little as possible so that way when you said it’s condition for storage transportation or carry you absolutely know it for sure because you have not been fiddling with it; it is exactly as you left it. This means that if you have to use it for serious purpose you know exactly what you need to do with it in order to get the desired result. You aren’t going to find that you left the chamber empty or forgot to put on the safety.
I know when I got my Walther PPK, chambering a hollow point round (ONCE) would produce what I would call a major dent into the cavity. Also, I had to really slingshot the slide for all it was worth, or it would jam against the ramp and stop the slide. Now, I have polished the typical machine marks out of the feed ramp, all the way to a mirror finish. I can release the slide as slowly as I can, and at no point will the slide stay open against the round as it rides the feed ramp, it will close no matter what, and there is no damage to my hollow point rounds. So there are things that can be done to minimize ammunition damage during loading. BTW, I assume the reason Paul does NOT suggest dropping the round in the barrel and closing the slide on it is because some autoloaders have ejectors that are enclosed and can't climb over the case rim without bending/stressing the ejector, and this can cause premature ejector failure. When the case rim slides under the ejector from below in normal operation, this is a non-issue.
Good points Paul! Kinda surprised you didn't touch on how many times ammunition can be loaded/unloaded into the magazines: When you have your mags loaded with defensive ammunition (hollow points) but you dump them out to put range ammo in to shoot at the range, only to load up those magazines again with the same hollow points when you get home. The ammunition will inevitably take on dings and scratches from being loaded/unloaded many times and I've often wondered how many cycles it can take.
It's always a good day when a Paul Harrell video shows up in the feed! And this just goes to show you... Paul answers questions that many of us never really thought of-- until the video, that is! Thanks for posting, Paul.
My Springfield 1911 would over time push ball ammo deeper into the case after mult chambering. Mr. Harrell mentioned that specifically and I’m glad he did. Moving to defensive hollow points made this a non-issue, but rotating ammunition should be a good practice anyway. Good info here as always.
Primer damage. A story circulated among LE trainers, I haven’t personally verified it but it seems plausible, of an LEO that got into a shooting and his first two rounds were duds. When the rounds were recovered and inspected at forensics, it was found the chemicals in the primers had been knocked loose. He had been chambering the same two cartridges over and over.
Thanks Paul. Great video! I have the same primer question. I rechamber the top one or top 2 rounds weekly at the range, but I don't let the slide slam closed trying to avoid all the issues mentioned. I ride the slide home and double check that it's in battery. Seems to me that this is no worse than a press check as far as in battery is concerned. Thoughts on the primer degradation?
I have two directly related experiences in this line. Having been a reloader for fifty years, inspecting ammunition before use is second nature. So when I began to use Federal HST in our carry guns, .45ACP and 9x19, it wasn't long before I began to notice shortening from chambering multiple times. The previous ammunition we used was Speer Gold Dot, and it was rare that I caught any shortening or nose damage. Maybe four or five years ago, I did observe the HSTs coming out of my .45 Commander were indeed getting smashed back into the cases. A bit of testing showed me that four chamberings were safe. Beyond that, some rounds would lose enough length to be concerning, both for feeding reliably (not a big problem) to creating unacceptably high chamber pressures. That's the part handloaders are on the lookout for. I had a significant supply of this ammunition and so made it a point to not exceed four chamberings before discarding the round by shooting it off in practice, as long as it appeared to be a safe length. Event number two: my routine is to shoot off the ammunition in my carry guns every few months, normally six months at most. Again, a few years ago, I was at the club range for some general shooting and drew my Commander to shoot off the nine HSTs aboard. On the third shot, the gun stopped cold with a half-chambered round. Since this gun/magazine combination had always run flawlessly, with this ammunition and any other, I was startled. I cleared the gun and continued. Second subsequent shot and it stopped again. This time I carefully and slowly field stripped it. I was shocked to find the front half of the cartridge case still lodged in the chamber. The rear half was on the ground after being ejected. I had the 50-round box with me to replenish after the shoot-off, so I kept going. It happened again and again, the cases shearing in half at the cannelure, leaving the gun stopped dead. I gathered up all of the .45 HST I had, e-mailed Federal, and actually got a tech guy on the telephone. He insisted my gun was defective, right up until he opened the e-mail attachment with my photo of numerous broken cases and the original box. Yes, I'd been carrying defective ammunition from an incorrectly-manufactured lot for half a year that would have rendered my gun useless in an emergency. I switched back to Gold Dots. Shoot off your carry ammunition regularly.
Another option: Go to the range from time to time, and shoot the rounds you're cycling in and out of the chamber. Like this, you have fresh rounds in your magazine on a regular base. And you can check the effect of "damaged" rounds.
Another idea would be to only chamber each self defense round once or twice and after that, add it to your target practice ammo. You should be occasionally firing some of your defensive ammo during practice sessions anyways. This keeps the ammo you are carrying fresh and, because it's ammo that you've DQd from your carry rotation, it doesn't hurt as much when shooting that expensive defensive ammo at paper.
@@wheeldog5555 Depends on the situation. Some guns will impact the primer when chambering. If your gun does, then do not repeatedly chamber that round. Repeated impacts to the primer WILL cause a round to not fire. Those rounds should only be chambered once before being relegated to the "target ammo" box. That's a subject for a completely different video, though.
@@wheeldog5555 I believe Paul discusses the idea during the 'Precious' discussion on his 'Why I Don't Like Hyper Ammo' video but doesn't go into any detail.
That's exactly what I do. But I'm pretty easygoing on how many times I'll chamber a round before I shove it aside for defensive ammo practice at the range. I just pay attention to how the rounds look after ejection. I suppose that back in time, when firearms were made with looser tolerances and a wee bit more guesswork/trial-and-error, a once-chambered round probably was considered useless after one chambering. I don't think that's true with most ammunition, in most well-maintained firearms, today. Though I haven't owned or fired any lousy firearms, so maybe I'm overstating things.
@@ericbergfield6451 Because I don't have a holster, I carry in my messenger bag. I have a Ruger Wrangler (.22 single action revolver) with no round in the barrel chamber. I know it's not the best carry option, but it's the only handgun I have right now.
@@PelemusMcSoy Any carry is better than no carry, be safe, & try to make it out to your local range once a month to keep proficient, & to meet local firearms enthusiasts!
Impeccable timing for this video. Without going into detail, I am one of those who has to not only unload, but immediately lock up or move my carry gun into my car when my wife or I come home from work. My carry is a revolver so I'm less concerned about this issue, but I did notice one of my rounds was looking a little more weathered than the rest of my carry ammo. Obviously I just need to put away that ammo in a better place than just my night stand, but it was on my mind, and suddenly Paul releases a video on it.
@@FearNoSteel he did not say where he was located, although the odds of it being Oregon are fairly slim… What point are you trying to interject? What exactly is measure 114 in Oregon and how does it prevent people from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? Whatever it is, I assume it has to be carefully crafted so it’s not immediately overturned as unconstitutional.
@@AV84USA Measure 114 requires permit to purchase, restricts magazine size to 10 rounds, and the permit itself requires an extensive background check including fingerprints and a mental wellness check. I think the other dude is kinda exaggerating to some degree, but the cost of the permit fees and the 10 round magazine restriction are a bit silly.
Paul, My friend Bruce is a retired Sheriff . He told me a story of a woman he worked with in his department. During inspections she presented her backup revolver for inspection, turns out her backup revolver wouldn't even function, it was rusted solid. I agree with you, it's very important to maintain and inspect your firearms on a regular basis. Buy the way, Bruce also told me that law enforcement officers forget their firearms in bathrooms more than people think. JT
One Way to tell if the projectile is making contact with the feed ramp or chamber walls on its way into the chamber is to do what we reloaders do; Coat the entire bullet up to the case rim with sharpie marker and then chamber it the way you normally do. Any contact will scrape off the sharpie marker at that location.
Another type of chambering damage, and the only type I have personally experienced, is the bullet being pulled from the casing by the inertial energy of the slide going forward. This happened to me in a first generation S&W M&P 9mm full size and a Speer Gold Dot 115gr +P+ round that had been chambered probably 15-20 times. With that particular load, there is not much engagement between the bullet and the casing when the bullet is seated. This created a perfect recipe for the pistol to act as a bullet puller and inch the bullet a little further out of the casing each time the slide slammed forward. Not realizing the bullet came out of the casing after the final time I chambered that round, I carried the pistol in that condition for several days. The next time I unloaded it the casing extracted and ejected, but the bullet remained in the chamber. I was left with a mess of powder in the frame of the pistol and the realization that I had been carrying a dead man’s gun.
I personally have experienced a bullet getting partially shoved into its casing after repeated chambering in a 1911. I've never experienced this with any other firearm, but it's always in the back of my mind now, so I occasionally rotate out the chambered round in my carry gun now.
The 1911 (and the Hi-Power) has a steeper feed angle than more modern handguns, so the bullet slams into the feed ramp more which’ll cause bullet setback. I usually try to slow load as much as possible when chambering.
Same thing with mine. Unless I'm shooting, I first place a round into the chamber by hand, Slowly close the slide, then give it a little punch to fully engage it. I then activate safety and slap the full mag in. Every so often, when I'm oiling the gun up and polishing off the rust from carrying, I'll cycle my bullets so that the chambered round goes to the bottom of the magazine.
@@gameragodzilla Exactly. And very flat-faced hollowpoints seem to exacerbate the issue. When chambering that pistol now, I also try to let the slide forward more slowly. I also switched to a more rounded hollowpoint.
Where I remember this being a problem the *MOST* and dangerous to everybody - was when I was an Army MP and later, working for the Army as a civ, and *having* to completely load and unload our magazines back into the box, every shift, so the D/Sgt could feel good about his ammunition inventory and, "Some shitbag hadn't gone off and fired a round - and snuck in a different brand." - PUrrrrre Fuddism. What *DID* happen was that after several years of this, the bullets were absolutely *crammed* into the cases. We were not ALLOWED to shoot it off, because it was "duty ammo" and that is different from "training ammo" for the Army's inventory system. And... stupid. We finally got it done after several of us wouldn't stop complaining about it for those several years.
Best way to rotate out your carry ammo is to shoot those top 2 rounds every so often, one of the main reasons to have a backyard pistol range. Also a great way to keep your EDC fully tested for functionality with the ammo that's been sitting in it for weeks or months.
I accumulate those into their own specially labeled box and use those for range practice. Never had an issue with them, but it seems like a decent idea
As for minor case and bullet scuffing and damage: I would assume if the bullet was slightly damaged it would make little difference to accuracy and reliability considering what revolver bullets go through, for instance, when shot through the forcing cone. If it is slight case damage, it would seem that you would want that round to be the one chambered since it will be fireformed once shot. If it is in the magazine, depending on the damage, it might not feed into the chamber properly.
That's exactly the way I have always thought about it, you don't have to worry about a fail to feed because it's already in the pipe. I aways put the same one back in.
Great topic Paul. I have carried the same Delta Gold Cup sense '91. I did have troubles with damaging a round and it cost me a grouse while deer hunting. I was young and I was preloading the chamber, dropping the slide, then insert the mag. Two issues with this; a) The extractor is not meant to be forced over the rim of the case. The loaded cartridge rim is meant to slide up and behind the extractor as it is chambering. The preloading method can damage and remove some tension in the extractor. It can also cause major burrs on rim b) The preloading method also causes odd inertia on the cartridge. In my case repeated preloading the chamber and dropping the slide caused the bullet to be seated deeper into the case. This could have been a real problem over time but my misfire was caused from inertia backing the primer out enough that the anvil was not seated deeply and firmly into the primer pocket enough to ignite. I'm just glad it was a grouse and not a serious threat. Love your channel and thanks for great content. I now rotate my carry rounds by dumping them all on the table for range day ammo then reloading the carry ammo when range day is over.
Here's a crazy idea - take a trip to the range every month or so, shoot your carry ammo, then clean and reload with fresh ammo. If you're CCing regularly, you should be practicing regularly, and while you might do much of your practice with cheaper ammo, or even with different guns, shooting at least a couple of your carry rounds from your carry gun should be part of your routine.
Waste of money to shoot carry ammo every month. Once you've verified it works in your gun, unless you fall off a boat a lot or something, that carry ammo will be fine for a long time. I'll shoot mine a couple times a year, no more. No one on a tight budget should think they need to buy a new box of hollow points every month. If you've got the money to burn, then shoot your defensive ammo whenever you get a notion to.
@@Falconryder I won't use an ammo for carry unless I've fired 200 rounds of that ammo through my carry gun without a failure - which means I avoid the expensive exotics. And my EDC only carries 7+1 rounds, so replacing them once a month is managable. If you're carrying a Glock, or for some reason can't afford to fire a full mag everytime, fire three rounds. Just make sure to empty your mag and put your replacement rounds at the bottom.
A firearms instructor purported that the cartridge he used as Paul showed at beginning of video featured the bullet being incrementally pressed down into the casing. The OAL had significantly decreased.
Thank you Paul, always informative videos and look forward to the next video every time I see you. Thanks again for all you do to help everyone stay informed
Paul just wanted to say I've never seen anyone go over this bit of information or food for thought. Good looking out. I thought about this not too long ago. My 1911 tends to beat them up a bit. So I always just kind of wondered in the back of my head. If I could give your hand a shake I would by God. Only because your videos are a priceless treasure trove of experience that should be shared so the knowledge isn't lost from a valuable member of society in my opinion. You do a good service sir appreciate you.
I get setback on many 357 sig rounds after one chambering, glocks are notorious for it with that feed ramp angle, barrels are proof tested well beyond the pressure a compressed charge could produce, Buffalo Bore even mentions glocks as causing setback on their site.
@@JohnNumber5 The 92 is the least likely to setback, with the 357 Sig it is quite likely many of the rounds are getting compressed as they are fed especially in Glock.
The reduced overall length is really the one you want to watch out for. That said, new firearms are more prone to catching the nose of a round. The first time I fired my glock(not my first gun, just Glock), it was deafening. Upon inspection, there was a nice copper gouge on the feedramp where the hollow point dug into it and set back the projectile increasing the chamber pressure.
This video may have just saved my life. When he reminded me to do maintenance and checks, I noticed that my trigger wouldn't reset! The pivot pin had started to rust from sweat!
I'm surprised he didn't mention more about the dangers of some of these issues, particularly bullet setback. He talked about it, and how to tell, how it happens, etc., but really other than talking about cost and how it shouldn't be a factor, he didn't mention the dangers or what it can do. A lot of kabooms can be traced back to increased pressures from it. And it's more prevalent than people realize - I have a whole box of self defense ammo that has gotten "tagged out" over the years. Most, I find that rechambering about 4 times is the max. Cor-Bon, only about twice. If the ammo isn't well crimped, and you carry an autoloader, you MUST be observant. But yeah...good video, but I feel like it really needed more.
Wut. That sounds extremely implausible that it would somehow increase pressure to a dangerous level. Please cite a source on physics of that, or at least an example of anything like that happening. By "a lot of Kabooms" and what else you say it sounds like you're suggesting specifically overpressure, did you mean to say out of battery?
@@beargillium2369 As the bullet is pushed deeper into the case the free space, ie volume decreases. With less volume pressure increases. In reloading minimum overall length is very important for this reason.
Thank you Paul for all the information you bring to us. What entered my mind is, you need to train at the range with your CC pistol. Shoot your older ammo then and put fresh ammo in your pistol after you are done.
Great video. I’ve heard this debated for years and what I eventually started doing was rotating my top round to the bottom like you mentioned when I do my monthly inspection and cleaning. That way you can go many months before ever re-using a single round more than once, and if you shoot even at a minimum a few times a year and buy fresh ammo, that should never be an issue.
Great presentation, Paul. One gun in my ECD rotation is a 1911 which, like the one you were showing, has an appetite for chewing up the case with the extractor after multiple chamberings. The solution I came up with is rotation exactly as you described. At the end of the rotation, I have 7 rounds of hollow points to add to the range ammo. (It never hurts to keep in practice for point of impact with your SD rounds anyway.)
I always think about this actually... Because I unload and load my pistols a lot. I just compare it to the other rounds and so far no damage of any kind. But I still rotate the rounds in the mag. Great video.
@@chrisjones6002 I know its fiction but in and episode Adam-12 Office Jim Reed changed his ammo after 6 months. Of course that was also 1968 and his hand gun was a revolver.
I hope you are shooting it out more than once a year! I generally shoot my current mag of carry ammo at the start of each practice session and then shoot practice ammo and then load fresh carry ammo until the next practice session. Sure, a little more expensive, but ensures fresh carry ammo and that the carry ammo functions reliably in the firearm.
@@LTVoyager Yup, there's a very good case for not using ammo that you can't afford to practice with. I think Paul covered this a couple of times at least.
Greetings Paul, I share my experience as a Puerto Rican police officer, a few years ago I was assigned an S&W 4006 and I began to have the habit of opening the slide and putting an ammunition in the chamber and releasing the slide and then inserting the full magazine. I did this for a few months before being sent to the range for training and realizing that with this I damaged the extractor and my gun only fired once or twice before having an extraction failure. When I took it to the gunsmith, he told me that possibly the fact of releasing the slide instead of driving it smoothly could have caused damage to the extractor. We now have Sig Sauers P320 9mm and I prefer to load "normally".
@@damoclesecoe7184 same. I’ve done this for years with my carry ammo & never had any extractor issues. I carry all Glocks for what it’s worth. Luckily I don’t unload my carry guns very often, basically only when I’m training with them about once a week. And when I’m on the range I load them “normally.”
I've always done it this way too, and was disappointed Paul didn't elaborate. I only have one difference and that is, once I drop a round into the chamber I don't let the slide freefall, I support it as it moves forward and then press it until the extractor clicks over the rim. I've never seen a problem from doing that, Maybe I've just been lucky. Barretta, Colt, Ruger, and S&W are the pistols used.
@@ShanLiB For what it's worth, when the gunsmith and I looked at the ammunition I regularly used for loading, it did have several fairly pronounced marks on the rim.
@@xVictorDavidx Yes, I can understand that happening when the slide is allowed to slam forward. That's why I don't do it. Also, as a reloader, I'm very careful about inspecting all aspects of the case before using it again.
You made a great point about people NOT cleaning their EDC. At least once a month I shoot a mag through the EDC, and break it down for an inspection and cleaning if needed. They can and sometimes will get dirty just carrying. I use an EDC round that's been chambered several times in that mag. The wife and I have the luxury of a pistol range at the ranch, and shoot our designated target firearms the most (every other day) after EDC break-in.
my taurus g2c had almost a 90 degree feed ramp wall it had to climb over to get chambered, my reloaded ammo always had giant blemishes and scratches on it. Im guessing this probably explains my FTF problem.... or because it was made in brazil hehe
100% agree with you. I try not to chamber the round too many times and also try to shoot ammo every so often and keep fresh hollow points in my carry guns.
Very good presentation, as usual. I recommend firing your self defense ammo every so often. Keeping a magazine full of Ticondas unfired for years is bad MOJO. At least every few practice sessions run your carry ammo. Good to re-check for point of aim & reliability. Keep the serious business stuff relatively fresh !
Great topic. I have (after a long time) noticed the top round that I would recycle after chambering and then unloading my cc that the projectile recessed into the casing, noticeably enough to make me curious to compare lengths of the rounds lower in the magazine. Also, extractor wear on the rim and/or brass casing from feeding. I usually just inspect after some time, and discard said round and use that ammo in the magazine as range ammo.
Wish that you would do a part two to this: expound and explore whether that damage from chambering a round multiple times affects the accuracy of that specific bullet compared to the non chambered rounds.
Surface-level scratches to a shell casing shouldn't affect performance. If the _projectile_ is damaged or the case is dented or corroded, you should throw it out. So basically, what Paul already said. I don't think individually testing a bunch of rechambered cartridges would teach us anything we haven't already learned from _this_ presentation.
When bullet recession happens, its unsafe to shoot them. The projectile can over pack the powder. Making a bigger boom than manufacturers recommend specifications. Do you want Paul to damage his firearms? Or blow a pistol up in his hand? When recession happens its best just to throw them away. I keep 1 just for showing friends when they ask about this. At least, thats what my research has shown me. I'm ready to be corrected if anyone knows more. Lol
@@daylightrider6078 I like your idea, especially that you might not be correct. You don’t know everything & that’s alright with you. I think that I might like to know you.
Paul Harrell is the greatest!! He answers questions no other channels ( that I know of) will take on! Thank you Mr Harrell for sharing your education and knowledge!!!
9:30 one of my favorite comic series, Schlock Mercenary, created a list of pithy, mostly-humorous aphorisms, The Seventy Maxims Of Maximally-Effective Mercenaries. Your line of discussion about ammunition costs reminded me of Maxim 46: "Don't try to save money by conserving ammunition."
Hello Sir, I hope you ,family and friends are all well. When I served in the Police, once a month we would unload all our magazines (usually a Sunday morning) put the top round into a bucket. Go to the range and just fire them. And reload the magazines with the remaining rounds, plus one. It worked for us. Take care and stay safe everyone, Tim W, England.
Paul, I've recently subscribed to your channel and thoroughly love watching and listening to all your various topics. The wide variety of Information and the way only you can expound on these different subjects is very satisfying. Glad your not one of those that just rambles on and on about a whole lot of useless nothingness. Keep doing what you do, love it.
It might just be Sig V-Crown but I tested out racking full magazines in my CZ P07 and I didn't notice much difference until the 5th-6th magazine. I also tested out in a G3C and I noticed the bullet set back noticeably after the first magazine.
Once again, you have not won a prize. It's a scam.
Also, the reason I advise against dropping a round into the chamber is the potential of damage to the gun (the extractor isn't really made to work that way) and increasing your chance of malfunction.
Where's my free gun, Paul?
Try putting the copy pasted into your comment blacklist
I was sure this time I really won
Damnit they got me again
It's okay Paul, you're enough of a prize.
If she tells you it cant be loaded in the house, Tell her shes responsible for dealing with any robbers or murderers.
Why is a woman telling you what to do? She should be making something in the kitchen or cleaning the bathroom.
@@SuspiciousGanymede Spot a person who's never interacted with a female in their life. Or who at the very least never should.
@@Askorti what do you mean? I bust a clip inside and get fed at the same time.
@@SuspiciousGanymede certified super kool guy
loaded in the house? is she nuts. all my guns are loaded....not racked...and under my pillow...and i sleep with them lit 1 foot away if not under me. u wont catch me assembling a wep/unlocking a safe when people break it.
Paul, you might enjoy this little story. You made me think of it when you mentioned "green" ammunition. Back in the early 80's I was running a handgun re-qualification. This one was set up so on-duty deputies could drop by the range and shoot their score and get back on the street. One deputy came to the firing line and his S&W Model 66 simply would not function. It was locked up tight. We issued him another revolver and i took his back to repair it. I didn't see anything wrong on visual inspection, but did notice an oddly familiar and fairly pleasant odor coming from the revolver, but not an odor I associated with firearms. I couldn't quite place it.
When I finally got the cylinder out and side plate off, I found the action full of a green and white substance that was hard as a rock. And I immediately located the source of the smell. It was toothpaste that had been liberally loaded into the action and allowed to harden. I called the deputy immediately to ask if he knew how toothpaste got into his gun. He said that he had cocked his revolver's hammer and squeezed it in that way. After a bit of silence on my end, I asked him why he would have done that. He said that when he qualified the year before he hadn't done as well as he would have liked, and another officer had told him that if he put abrasive toothpaste inside the action it would smooth everything up and the gun would shoot better. I guess he missed the part about removing it. What was worse is that his revolver had not been fired in a year, and probably would not have fired in an emergency. I thought you might enjoy this one because it might be one of the few times that your two interests in firearms and dental hygiene could overlap.
Once a customer called and said that their restaurant door wasn't working properly. So we went there and immediately realized it is a problem with the floor spring. When we opened it up we saw that it was totally gummed up with ketchup. They thought it would be a great lubricant. Not to mention that they had big bottles of frying oil, olive oil etc (which would have been a bad idea, too). No, they had to try ketchup.
Another time an average shooter is trying to blame the Iron for the lack of training : |
@@bronkothetervueren3246 That's hilarious!
Wow 😮
@@worldoftancraft I wouldn't call him average. I'm well below average and I actually own and use proper cleaners and lubricants for my firearms. I think a better description for Colgate Boy's proficiency level would be "dumbass".
I like the "rotate your ammo at the gun range" approach. As the ammo gets older/used you get a chance to be better at the range. Without the I'm wasting money problem.😇
You beat me to it.
@@logicthought24 seriously! I figured it would be the end of vid "bombshell" advice haha
Exactly right. After 15-30 times chambered, fire it at the range. Sooner depending on guns like the Bersa.
People don't like to shoot defensive rounds often because they're pricey.
People shoot shoot their defensive rounds more often despite being pricey.
Don't buy expensive ammo. Durable, subsonic, 230-grain ball ammo makes a big enough hole/tissue shock and is range & financial friendly. Historic Filipino Warriors on enhanced folk medicine provided the proof in concept a long time ago. Otherwise, thank goodness most of them don't want to murder & barbecue Europeans for invading their lands anymore. The .45 ACP is all about defense from crazy humans, so why accept anything less in close combat?
Exactly what I do... even on some of my iffy rounds that look like the bullet may have sunk slightly into the case, I'll just fire them off at the round.
If it's a concern, simply keep an empty and marked tray in your drawer along with a fresh box. Place the ejected round into the marked box (for range use) and reload your mag with a fresh round from the "new" box. Your EDC is 100% and you're going to need range ammo anyway. A little case or projectile wear shouldn't matter, but if it does... better to find out at the range than when you're trying to make smoke in a SD situation.
When SD rounds are more than $1 thats kinda ubsurd.
You could buy a set of calibers. Measure for setback and still save $ with the cost of the calibers included
I've known guys like that but it seemed excessive for me. I don't unload my carry guns other than for cleaning or range trips so that helps reduce the problem. When I load them I usually rotate to a different round in the mag and make sure they look OK. I replace the carry ammo every couple of years at most.
Just load the chambered round by hand individually and not from the magazine. Why overcomplicate things?
@@stevexracer4309 An explanation of why would have been better than " I don't recommend it". I said so, does not work for me. What is the real reason?
@@mattmarzula It's not good for your extractor. There are videos explaining why, just look for yourself, that's why why Paul said he wouldn't do it in THIS video.
Paul is like that uncle we all needed but never had. Thank you for these videos.
👍
Well said. I'm thankful for the noncoms that cared enough for their own safety(and that of others😉), to explain these types of things to the "uneducated" . Thanks Paul, we owe you a lot.
I'm watching the " Vintage VHS " recorded version ( 480 p )
Not just an Uncle, but everything my dad taught. I've had tot unlearn damn near every bit of misinformation he's ever shared. It's so refreshing to learn from people with actual experience versus a self proclaimed know it all.
@@brianking9446 noncom?
One thing I would add... I think it is a good idea to periodically confirm that your carry gun functions with the ammo you're carrying, and that you can shoot that ammo to point of aim. Shooting the magazine you've been carrying for six months solves a lot of problems.
And it's fun.
I’m newer into owning guns but have general knowledge, should I be practicing with my edc, or have two of the same platform one for practice and one for carry? I’d never mind owning another p365 lol
@@seagreen01 MHO you shoot what you carry, it would be n ice to own 2 of the same guns but, even if you do no 2 guns will shoot the same, close, but not the same. You aint gona wear your EDC piece out shooting it
@@seagreen01 If its a new gun it's probably best to maintain using that one to break it in. The metal-to-metal contact parts have to find their own, similar to a new car engine.
@@seagreen01 I practice with the EDC gun as a way to make sure it functions. Practice mag changes to make sure they all function. When your carry ammo gets to be over a year old, shoot it and get a fresh batch.
@Toby that's not good...
I bought a crate of cheap Chinese made 22LR at the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife show back in the early 2000s. It worked out to be 2 cents per round. I was "king of the show" after that purchase. Thought it was the deal of a life time. I would never have to buy 22LR ever again. Well...not so much. The brass was so thin that the force of pushing them into the magazine made them oval shaped. Then the powder would leak out because there was no longer a tight fit to the bullet. So I could not use them in magazines. Just revolvers. Well, the issue there is when you did manage to get one to fire, the case would expand so much that you could not get the empty cases out with the extractor. I had to use a screwdriver to pop each one out they were so tight. On top of the normal no fires you get with rimfire, this junk was tickling the 40% no fire rate. Almost half. Just pathetic. But I learned a lesson. Never again.
Best lesson learned by a burnt hand 😂
@@platinumbrick6 I didn't quite get that far, but it would not have surprised me. You know it's literally a powder keg when you tip the empty mag upside down and powder falls out. Whoa Nellie!
Was the lesson “Chinese = cheap?”
@@se7enthedge382 Absolutely. And I knew that going in, but I figured for backyard plinking ammo, how could I go wrong? Well, turns out that when cheap = junk, it's worthless
@@se7enthedge382 not true my friend. Some of the best Ak's and sks pattern rifles and many more are some of the highest quality firearms and some decent ammo. While that might not always be true and there are some bad examples of Chinese ammo and weapons many of them are great quality.
Glad you touched on this Paul. A lot of people don't inspect carry ammo and even more don't know about bullet setback.
Bullet setback is a real thing to worry about, anyone who has dabbled in reloading knows how critical that overall length measurement is
It can cause a dangerous over pressure in the pistol and possibly blow it up. Not good.
the last time i was at the range i picked up an errant 9mm cartridge, put it in my pocket, and it came out of my pocket about 2mm shorter.
Anyone who reloads can tell if a bullet has been set back just by looking at it. I can tell the difference in about 4 thousands of an inch in bullet seating depth with my eyes. 😆
I was going to measure my rounds against a new one...but reconsidered as I am not what you would call a professional...... :)
I have shot setback bullets, no prob lmao. Just don't do it with crazy +P+ stuff.
Great vid. I worked in and managed a gunshop in CA for many years (finally escaped Californication). Every day, as guys came to work, they got out their pistol and loaded it to carry for the day in the shop. Every night before leaving, they would unload it. One day I asked the guys to see their ammo. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ROUND THEY WERE ABOUT TO CHAMBER WAS SET BACK INTO THE CASE to varying degrees. Setback can cause higher pressures and CAN be quite dangerous. It never hurts to inspect your ammo! And rotate it out (by shooting it) every once in a while.
I am so grateful that Harrell does these oddball presentations... where else would you find UA-cam videos on this specific topic?
Or other oddball topics like “does slamming the slide down on an empty chamber cause any noticeable/considerable wear on a firearm?”
Or “does built up lint in your firearm cause reliability/accuracy issues?”
Things we rarely see testing or talking points on... thank you P. Harrell for these presentations.
If chambering a round was in some way supposed to cushion the slide slamming forward, to such a degree that slamming it forward on an empty chamber was bad for the gun, then you would see parts of the brass that get squashed by that force dissipation. Sure there's a bit of friction in stripping a round off the mag and getting it into the chamber, but it's probably barely taking the edge off of the force the slide has in a properly operating pistol. Remember, the recoil spring is absorbing a large portion of the force of the actual round being fired, and it's strength is suited to that job. The recoil spring is seriously overkill if it only needed enough force to chamber a round. Sure some weird rounds will catch while feeding in some guns and a dirty gun will add friction, but these guns are designed to take the full force of that slide while it's clean, not while it's slowed by something. I would expect that it is ever so slightly harder on the parts to slam the chamber forward on an empty chamber, but probably nowhere near enough harder to make it worse than the slide slamming forward with an actual round several times. So unless you slam your slide forward unloaded about as often as you do loaded, I wouldn't worry about what it's doing to the gun. Pistol actions are not gentle operations, so any quality pistol expected to endure tens of thousands of rounds or more with only minor replacements won't even notice you closing the slide on nothing here and there.
@@DallenRex yes...
My dad was a "once it's been chambered, throw it away" guy, because that's what the guy at the gun store told him. I have converted him to a "once it's been chambered, retire it to the range bucket" guy.
I will let a round get chambered a few times. I'll mark it with a Sharpie when I unload it, and when it gets its third mark, it gets used for practice. Three or four times being chambered is low-risk, but only you can determine your level of comfort. That is mine.
You're the only other person I've met that does that(besides critical duty/defense... Ive chambered a 9mm glock and 380 lcp over a dozen times to see what'd happen, no change ymmv)
@@rwally192 same here.
Since you're not in a gunfight when you're loading your carry gun, simply ride the slide home and make sure it's fully in battery, congrats, you've chambered the round without subjecting it to the forces of the slide under spring pressure.
One time i beat a 10mm almost entirely into the casing, still have it somewhere, its kinda scary
@@10toppers that's the real reason glock 20s kept getting kabooms
The “rotation” suggestion is probably your best solution to prevent funky rounds. The department I worked for had us fire the old issued carry ammo during qualification and some officers had feeding issues. A quick inspection of the cleared rounds showed rounds that were chambered and ejected dozens of times.
Our agency does the same. Our practice qualification is with the ammo we were carrying. Then we qualify with fmj and reload with fresh hp's.
A simple way to do this would be to use a special marked magazine (perhaps you paint the floorplate red, blue, green, whatever) which you use for chambering a round, then use another one for carrying with it.
Eject the once chambered rounds into a box marked "Chambered", then when your chambering magazine is emptied, reload them into the chambering magazine.
Depending on the size of the magazine you use for carry, and how often you unload your gun (some do it daily), have something to act as a counter for the box to signify how many times that lot of cartridges have been cycled.
That way, you'd even out the wear on cartridges by 7, 10, 12, 15, 18 times, etc, rather than chambering, extracting, and ejecting a single cartridge a whole dozen or two times. That way, when it's time to replace your carry ammo, you could go and shoot up the less worn ammo at your range with less risk of problems.
You'd also avoid the chore of emptying a magazine manually to reload it with the chambered round in the bottom.
Rotation with a fresh box sounds great! Because of our gunlaws we only have the duty-ammo we carry with us. With no chance to get more ore buy fresh ones. 😩
You can't get our duty-ammo at the free market anyway.
You just get the bullets replaced you had to use.
My agency also used duty ammo for qualifications. In my state, that was 25 rounds. When I was in charge, I also had my guys shoot the rest of their duty ammo, another 25 rounds every December. We started each year with fresh ammo.
An advantage of using the carried ammunition for qualification is that in the real world your carried ammunition is what you'd fire in a gunfight, not a fresh box of cartridges loaded a moment before into clean magazines. If you're getting feeding issues, then administrative procedures need to change--and your department's collective experience with fatigued ammunition fired on the range was proof of that need. And you now have the solution--inspect, discard (or turn in) damaged ammunition, replace.
You sir, are a national treasure. Thank you for the vids and your thoroughness in these discussions.
10:05
Anecdotal Alex time: Once I chambered a round in an SKS by hand (had no magazine available).
I let the bolt go forward on its own and accidentally (or negligently depending on how you see things) sent a freedom seed zooming off into the distance.
From what I could gather online, Free floating firing pin+no magazine = ND
Thank you for attending my Ted talk
You can usually use equipment that is no longer 100 % for training purposes. Just put the older amunition into a seperate magazine and use it on the range where your life doesn't depend on it.
EDIT: Obviously use common sense as always in life.
Except a squished round may cause excessive pressures and actually risk your life and limb at the range.
@@uclajd I think that Peter’s point is to put any cartridge that’s been chambered X times into a training bin. Depending on your gun and ammo X might be 1 or it might be 10, but it should be *before* any risk of significant setback, etc. occurs.
@@uclajd Okay, put it in a special box where you can take it to the range - and have hall the time in the world to inspect your rounds for that kind of damage - while your life doesn't depend on it.
If loading a round _once_ can cause dangerous levels of damage, something else is wrong with your gun (or your ammo is actually tinfoil wrapped chocolate). In that case you'll be glad that you had a look at each individual round; instead of just shoving that round back into its top spot of the magazine in the late evening, after a long day at work, when you'd much rather be indoors already.
@Mark Berenger I think Pysto is *agreeing* with your position; you both seem to be saying the described situation should not happen.
I'd go further and say that *if* chambering a round a few dozen times leads to an unsafe (as in boom) situation, something wasn't designed or built correctly. The case shouldn't easily allow a bullet to be compressed enough to significantly increase chamber pressures. A gun should not fail, even with a significant increase in chamber pressure (designed operating pressure should be significantly less than burst pressure). That said, it's fully possible that situation could lead to malfunctions, other reliability issues or changes in accuracy, even with well designed components.
@Peter Pan, don't listen to the Captain Hooks of the world trying to put you down. You made a good point and people can use common sense to think through what else they might need to do before using the equipment.
We're issued a duty weapon at my workplace. We've had problems with not only repeatedly chambered rounds, but also with deformed cartridges from some people repeatedly trying to load full mags on a closed slide. Our practice is to cycle through which mag we load up at the start of each day, every month or two empty the mags and shuffle the rounds, and then at our yearly requal the first thing we do is blow through that year's issued duty ammunition, and are issued new rounds when we're done.
Do you get issues at that time or do they all typically function?
'deformed cartridges from some people repeatedly trying to load full mags on a closed slide' - what firearm is that?
@@BigSmartArmed Yes please elaborate, never had that happen. Ever.
hi jarvodachi
Yup. Once a year I shoot up the carry mag and the spare mag ammo at the range. This also verifies my choice of ammo is still functioning properly.
I love Pauls videos. Hes not trying to be fancy. Just pure education on great subjects. Great guy. Thank you Paul.
Am I the only one that wants Paul to say the deadpan quote, “How compelling…Please face the wall now.”
The part about PMCSing your carry is so underrated.
Clearing the weapon and doing a quick check and wipe down only takes a couple minutes and ensures everything has the best chance at working as advertised when you need it.
I test my carry pieces for live fire reliability after a years worth of lint, hair, dead skin cells and sweat. Then clear, clean, oil and repeat every 3 to 6 months. In order to form a baseline time frame for PMS one must evaluate minimum and maximum normal operating parameters. If you tell me you clean your gun every week you're just playing with it AND your PMS will get gundecked at some point.
@@PBVader I concur. A semi regular scheduled ‘test firing’ and thorough cleaning afterwards will reduce the chances of holding on to a damaged round, ensure the weapon will function properly if called for, provide essential training, and last but certainly not least… is fun and a huge confidence builder.
We are anal about cleaning our firearms, we believe a clean gun is by definition more reliable...the carry ammo gets shot out once or twice a year (we're revolver people, but the ammo still gets exposed to the weather)...I cringe listening to folks bragging about never cleaning their firearms...
I cannot believe the timing of this. I was literally just wondering about this.
"Likkke Llllilterally! OMG"
@@-_-_-_-318 I wasnt just thinking it i was cleaning up and had just picked some up and was inspecting it and thinking about the fact that some of the projectiles seemed to be pushed back into the case and was wondering about an increase in pressure it may cause.
There was a case of a cop who had a "click" event and got shot by the perp.The investigation showed that anvil and the cup separated in the primer, the wife told the investigator that the cop unloaded and loaded the ammo on the magazine daily, the constant slamming over time caused the separation.
The procedure that works for me on my p226, ball ammo (under 2000 fps hollow point does not perforate effectively) every 3 months used it up at the range, field strip weapon, clean, with barrel in my hand insert new round in chamber verify ease of entry and falling back out, insert in magazine, repeat for all rounds, resemble weapon, insert magazine, charge, decock and holster. Maybe overkill, works for me.
Thanks for the great video Paul
This intro never gets old. Love the shot with the checkered jacket. But hey, “you be the judge.”
This is an important topic and I’m glad Paul made a video about it. When I was traveling often, for various reasons I would have to leave my firearm in a hotel room. I was never comfortable leaving a loaded firearm at a hotel and always unloaded it. The wear and tear from cycling a round after returning from a meeting, the beach, dinner, etc, seemed excessive. Over time, some rounds did become compressed. Eventually I settled on a J-frame revolver for travel. Thank you Paul for another informative video.
Thanks for posting this. The difference between first hand experience(good) and anecdotal evidence (considered weak) seems to be in what color a person wants to paint a situation as. I don't know about others, but I'd rather listen to experience over theory any day.
@@ctdieselnut First hand experience is actually still anecdotal evidence.
Can't believe I'm seeing this video today. Had this EXACT question regarding my Colt Government Model, and here Paul is demonstrating one!
I have noticed that my cheapo remanned loads get scarred up reloading, so I've been leaving one of those on top and JPH underneath. If I forget to swap mags at camp? I only wasted a single crappy round! (Hopefully...)
As I have used weapons professionally for three years now ,and have owned them personally for longer, I like to heavily advise against unnecessary gun handling. It is as much a safety issue as it is a readiness issue.
Every time you handle a weapon you have an opportunity for a discharge of some sort. This can be voluntary or involuntary, deliberate or accidental or negligent. As every gun owner with enough experience does, at some point while handling your weapons you will get an uninventional discharge at least once in your life. Modern weapons and ammunition are made to exceptional safety standards, meaning apart from a perfect storm of mechanical error, near certainly this unexpected discharge was caused by you pressing the trigger in some way when there was a round chambered. Therefore the best way to avoid this is to reduce the opportunities this has to happen, which means reducing how much you handle your gun. No handling, no opportunity for discharge. You should only handle your weapon when you are at a range taking your shots, in danger using it for serious purposes, performing maintenance, or transferring to a new carry/storage position.
The readiness issue is also a valid concern. Quickly grab your nearest firearm, fiddle with it for a minute, put it away, and then tell me two minutes later its exact condition. Will it absolutely yes or not go bang if you pull the trigger right now? Are you sure? Is there no way you could’ve accidentally done something or been mistaken? You’re most likely you forgot something or didn’t know something for sure following that quick exercise. This is why I recommend that you handle your weapon as little as possible so that way when you said it’s condition for storage transportation or carry you absolutely know it for sure because you have not been fiddling with it; it is exactly as you left it. This means that if you have to use it for serious purpose you know exactly what you need to do with it in order to get the desired result. You aren’t going to find that you left the chamber empty or forgot to put on the safety.
@@ctdieselnut dag is 100% correct. First-hand experience is simply a synonym for anecdotal experience.
I know when I got my Walther PPK, chambering a hollow point round (ONCE) would produce what I would call a major dent into the cavity. Also, I had to really slingshot the slide for all it was worth, or it would jam against the ramp and stop the slide. Now, I have polished the typical machine marks out of the feed ramp, all the way to a mirror finish. I can release the slide as slowly as I can, and at no point will the slide stay open against the round as it rides the feed ramp, it will close no matter what, and there is no damage to my hollow point rounds. So there are things that can be done to minimize ammunition damage during loading. BTW, I assume the reason Paul does NOT suggest dropping the round in the barrel and closing the slide on it is because some autoloaders have ejectors that are enclosed and can't climb over the case rim without bending/stressing the ejector, and this can cause premature ejector failure. When the case rim slides under the ejector from below in normal operation, this is a non-issue.
Good points Paul! Kinda surprised you didn't touch on how many times ammunition can be loaded/unloaded into the magazines: When you have your mags loaded with defensive ammunition (hollow points) but you dump them out to put range ammo in to shoot at the range, only to load up those magazines again with the same hollow points when you get home. The ammunition will inevitably take on dings and scratches from being loaded/unloaded many times and I've often wondered how many cycles it can take.
This is why I clicked the video!
Get another magazine. I never pull my hd ammo unless it’s to rotate the round i chambered multiple times.
It's always a good day when a Paul Harrell video shows up in the feed! And this just goes to show you... Paul answers questions that many of us never really thought of-- until the video, that is! Thanks for posting, Paul.
My Springfield 1911 would over time push ball ammo deeper into the case after mult chambering. Mr. Harrell mentioned that specifically and I’m glad he did. Moving to defensive hollow points made this a non-issue, but rotating ammunition should be a good practice anyway. Good info here as always.
I've also seen that pushing occur with hollow point ammo on my 1911 as well, however.
Primer damage. A story circulated among LE trainers, I haven’t personally verified it but it seems plausible, of an LEO that got into a shooting and his first two rounds were duds. When the rounds were recovered and inspected at forensics, it was found the chemicals in the primers had been knocked loose. He had been chambering the same two cartridges over and over.
Thanks Paul. Great video! I have the same primer question. I rechamber the top one or top 2 rounds weekly at the range, but I don't let the slide slam closed trying to avoid all the issues mentioned. I ride the slide home and double check that it's in battery. Seems to me that this is no worse than a press check as far as in battery is concerned. Thoughts on the primer degradation?
@@brucejohnsonmusic2
Same.
I have two directly related experiences in this line.
Having been a reloader for fifty years, inspecting ammunition before use is second nature. So when I began to use Federal HST in our carry guns, .45ACP and 9x19, it wasn't long before I began to notice shortening from chambering multiple times. The previous ammunition we used was Speer Gold Dot, and it was rare that I caught any shortening or nose damage.
Maybe four or five years ago, I did observe the HSTs coming out of my .45 Commander were indeed getting smashed back into the cases. A bit of testing showed me that four chamberings were safe. Beyond that, some rounds would lose enough length to be concerning, both for feeding reliably (not a big problem) to creating unacceptably high chamber pressures. That's the part handloaders are on the lookout for.
I had a significant supply of this ammunition and so made it a point to not exceed four chamberings before discarding the round by shooting it off in practice, as long as it appeared to be a safe length.
Event number two: my routine is to shoot off the ammunition in my carry guns every few months, normally six months at most. Again, a few years ago, I was at the club range for some general shooting and drew my Commander to shoot off the nine HSTs aboard.
On the third shot, the gun stopped cold with a half-chambered round. Since this gun/magazine combination had always run flawlessly, with this ammunition and any other, I was startled. I cleared the gun and continued. Second subsequent shot and it stopped again. This time I carefully and slowly field stripped it. I was shocked to find the front half of the cartridge case still lodged in the chamber. The rear half was on the ground after being ejected.
I had the 50-round box with me to replenish after the shoot-off, so I kept going. It happened again and again, the cases shearing in half at the cannelure, leaving the gun stopped dead.
I gathered up all of the .45 HST I had, e-mailed Federal, and actually got a tech guy on the telephone. He insisted my gun was defective, right up until he opened the e-mail attachment with my photo of numerous broken cases and the original box.
Yes, I'd been carrying defective ammunition from an incorrectly-manufactured lot for half a year that would have rendered my gun useless in an emergency.
I switched back to Gold Dots.
Shoot off your carry ammunition regularly.
Another option: Go to the range from time to time, and shoot the rounds you're cycling in and out of the chamber. Like this, you have fresh rounds in your magazine on a regular base. And you can check the effect of "damaged" rounds.
Another idea would be to only chamber each self defense round once or twice and after that, add it to your target practice ammo. You should be occasionally firing some of your defensive ammo during practice sessions anyways. This keeps the ammo you are carrying fresh and, because it's ammo that you've DQd from your carry rotation, it doesn't hurt as much when shooting that expensive defensive ammo at paper.
This is an awesome idea. Fixes like every issue and gives you experience of that fancy ammo every so often. Makes so much simple sense.
I can't believe Paul did not realize that one. Every time you clear, put that round in a box marked "Training Ammo".
@@wheeldog5555 Depends on the situation. Some guns will impact the primer when chambering. If your gun does, then do not repeatedly chamber that round. Repeated impacts to the primer WILL cause a round to not fire. Those rounds should only be chambered once before being relegated to the "target ammo" box.
That's a subject for a completely different video, though.
@@wheeldog5555 I believe Paul discusses the idea during the 'Precious' discussion on his 'Why I Don't Like Hyper Ammo' video but doesn't go into any detail.
That's exactly what I do. But I'm pretty easygoing on how many times I'll chamber a round before I shove it aside for defensive ammo practice at the range. I just pay attention to how the rounds look after ejection.
I suppose that back in time, when firearms were made with looser tolerances and a wee bit more guesswork/trial-and-error, a once-chambered round probably was considered useless after one chambering. I don't think that's true with most ammunition, in most well-maintained firearms, today. Though I haven't owned or fired any lousy firearms, so maybe I'm overstating things.
As I slowly begin to conceal carry more, this video and the comments are helpful information. Thank you, everyone!
Are you carrying with one in the chamber yet? ...Also what are you carrying?
@@ericbergfield6451 Because I don't have a holster, I carry in my messenger bag. I have a Ruger Wrangler (.22 single action revolver) with no round in the barrel chamber. I know it's not the best carry option, but it's the only handgun I have right now.
@@PelemusMcSoy Any carry is better than no carry, be safe, & try to make it out to your local range once a month to keep proficient, & to meet local firearms enthusiasts!
@@ericbergfield6451 Thanks Eric! =)
@@ericbergfield6451 I can't see your first comment. It's been hidden.
Impeccable timing for this video. Without going into detail, I am one of those who has to not only unload, but immediately lock up or move my carry gun into my car when my wife or I come home from work. My carry is a revolver so I'm less concerned about this issue, but I did notice one of my rounds was looking a little more weathered than the rest of my carry ammo. Obviously I just need to put away that ammo in a better place than just my night stand, but it was on my mind, and suddenly Paul releases a video on it.
I’m not a gun owner but I always love watching your uploads Paul. Thoroughly interesting and always packed full of thoughtful analysis.
Why not? Do you live in a location that doesn’t allow you to own a gun, or is it a personal choice? Just curious
Also curious if it’s a personal choice or a location issue.
Well with measure 114 in Oregon you're not going to be a gun owner
@@FearNoSteel he did not say where he was located, although the odds of it being Oregon are fairly slim…
What point are you trying to interject? What exactly is measure 114 in Oregon and how does it prevent people from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights?
Whatever it is, I assume it has to be carefully crafted so it’s not immediately overturned as unconstitutional.
@@AV84USA Measure 114 requires permit to purchase, restricts magazine size to 10 rounds, and the permit itself requires an extensive background check including fingerprints and a mental wellness check. I think the other dude is kinda exaggerating to some degree, but the cost of the permit fees and the 10 round magazine restriction are a bit silly.
Paul,
My friend Bruce is a retired Sheriff . He told me a story of a woman he worked with in his department. During inspections she presented her backup revolver for inspection, turns out her backup revolver wouldn't even function, it was rusted solid.
I agree with you, it's very important to maintain and inspect your firearms on a regular basis.
Buy the way, Bruce also told me that law enforcement officers forget their firearms in bathrooms more than people think.
JT
One Way to tell if the projectile is making contact with the feed ramp or chamber walls on its way into the chamber is to do what we reloaders do; Coat the entire bullet up to the case rim with sharpie marker and then chamber it the way you normally do. Any contact will scrape off the sharpie marker at that location.
Yep. Shadetree machinist's dykem.
Another type of chambering damage, and the only type I have personally experienced, is the bullet being pulled from the casing by the inertial energy of the slide going forward. This happened to me in a first generation S&W M&P 9mm full size and a Speer Gold Dot 115gr +P+ round that had been chambered probably 15-20 times. With that particular load, there is not much engagement between the bullet and the casing when the bullet is seated. This created a perfect recipe for the pistol to act as a bullet puller and inch the bullet a little further out of the casing each time the slide slammed forward. Not realizing the bullet came out of the casing after the final time I chambered that round, I carried the pistol in that condition for several days. The next time I unloaded it the casing extracted and ejected, but the bullet remained in the chamber. I was left with a mess of powder in the frame of the pistol and the realization that I had been carrying a dead man’s gun.
Funny you said that, because the exact same thing happened to me with my m&p 2.0, and 124 grain +p Gold Dots
I learn something different from Paul Harrell every time. Thanks keep these educational videos coming.
I personally have experienced a bullet getting partially shoved into its casing after repeated chambering in a 1911. I've never experienced this with any other firearm, but it's always in the back of my mind now, so I occasionally rotate out the chambered round in my carry gun now.
The 1911 (and the Hi-Power) has a steeper feed angle than more modern handguns, so the bullet slams into the feed ramp more which’ll cause bullet setback.
I usually try to slow load as much as possible when chambering.
Same thing with mine.
Unless I'm shooting, I first place a round into the chamber by hand, Slowly close the slide, then give it a little punch to fully engage it.
I then activate safety and slap the full mag in.
Every so often, when I'm oiling the gun up and polishing off the rust from carrying, I'll cycle my bullets so that the chambered round goes to the bottom of the magazine.
@@gameragodzilla Exactly. And very flat-faced hollowpoints seem to exacerbate the issue. When chambering that pistol now, I also try to let the slide forward more slowly. I also switched to a more rounded hollowpoint.
I have the same thing with my glock 19, now I rotate rounds when I unload and reload.
I've had the same problem with every pistol I've ever owned.
This is an excellent question that I hadn't thought about... Thanks for addressing this issue...
Where I remember this being a problem the *MOST* and dangerous to everybody - was when I was an Army MP and later, working for the Army as a civ, and *having* to completely load and unload our magazines back into the box, every shift, so the D/Sgt could feel good about his ammunition inventory and, "Some shitbag hadn't gone off and fired a round - and snuck in a different brand." - PUrrrrre Fuddism.
What *DID* happen was that after several years of this, the bullets were absolutely *crammed* into the cases. We were not ALLOWED to shoot it off, because it was "duty ammo" and that is different from "training ammo" for the Army's inventory system. And... stupid. We finally got it done after several of us wouldn't stop complaining about it for those several years.
Best way to rotate out your carry ammo is to shoot those top 2 rounds every so often, one of the main reasons to have a backyard pistol range. Also a great way to keep your EDC fully tested for functionality with the ammo that's been sitting in it for weeks or months.
I accumulate those into their own specially labeled box and use those for range practice. Never had an issue with them, but it seems like a decent idea
Kind of what I was thinking starting when he told the crusty revolver story. "Do they never practice?"
Sadly for most of us a range on our own property isn't possible but hopefully one day I'll have one.
Great comment
@@mytech6779 obviously not. The point was the person never takes anytime with their weapon or skill.
As for minor case and bullet scuffing and damage: I would assume if the bullet was slightly damaged it would make little difference to accuracy and reliability considering what revolver bullets go through, for instance, when shot through the forcing cone. If it is slight case damage, it would seem that you would want that round to be the one chambered since it will be fireformed once shot. If it is in the magazine, depending on the damage, it might not feed into the chamber properly.
That's exactly the way I have always thought about it, you don't have to worry about a fail to feed because it's already in the pipe. I aways put the same one back in.
The Alice Gear over the yellow goat is the stuff legends are made of, Paul Harrell is a national treasure.
As always job well done. Looking forward to seeing more of your work.
I’ve been waiting awhile for someone to do this topic since I work armed security. Thank you Mr. Harrell
Great topic Paul. I have carried the same Delta Gold Cup sense '91. I did have troubles with damaging a round and it cost me a grouse while deer hunting. I was young and I was preloading the chamber, dropping the slide, then insert the mag. Two issues with this; a) The extractor is not meant to be forced over the rim of the case. The loaded cartridge rim is meant to slide up and behind the extractor as it is chambering. The preloading method can damage and remove some tension in the extractor. It can also cause major burrs on rim b) The preloading method also causes odd inertia on the cartridge. In my case repeated preloading the chamber and dropping the slide caused the bullet to be seated deeper into the case. This could have been a real problem over time but my misfire was caused from inertia backing the primer out enough that the anvil was not seated deeply and firmly into the primer pocket enough to ignite. I'm just glad it was a grouse and not a serious threat. Love your channel and thanks for great content. I now rotate my carry rounds by dumping them all on the table for range day ammo then reloading the carry ammo when range day is over.
@wbflashover that makes sense, thanks for explaining **why** dropping a round in the chamber by hand isn't a good idea.
Always enjoyable and informative. Keep them coming!
OMG THANK YOU SIR!!!!!🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Been wondering about this for 30 years!!
Another great presentation Paul! Keep up the good work :)
I read "another great president" at first glance and he already has my vote before he knew he was campaigning.
Hi Paul, this was very informative. I always appreciate your practical approach to the problems. No fluff, no BS, just the facts..
"When in doubt, throw it out"
Thanks bud, I was on the fence. Love your videos.
And as always that was ever so professionally enlightening
Here's a crazy idea - take a trip to the range every month or so, shoot your carry ammo, then clean and reload with fresh ammo.
If you're CCing regularly, you should be practicing regularly, and while you might do much of your practice with cheaper ammo, or even with different guns, shooting at least a couple of your carry rounds from your carry gun should be part of your routine.
Waste of money to shoot carry ammo every month. Once you've verified it works in your gun, unless you fall off a boat a lot or something, that carry ammo will be fine for a long time. I'll shoot mine a couple times a year, no more. No one on a tight budget should think they need to buy a new box of hollow points every month. If you've got the money to burn, then shoot your defensive ammo whenever you get a notion to.
@@Falconryder I won't use an ammo for carry unless I've fired 200 rounds of that ammo through my carry gun without a failure - which means I avoid the expensive exotics. And my EDC only carries 7+1 rounds, so replacing them once a month is managable.
If you're carrying a Glock, or for some reason can't afford to fire a full mag everytime, fire three rounds. Just make sure to empty your mag and put your replacement rounds at the bottom.
A firearms instructor purported that the cartridge he used as Paul showed at beginning of video featured the bullet being incrementally pressed down into the casing. The OAL had significantly decreased.
Your videos are always informative and entertaining. Good job!
Thank you Paul, always informative videos and look forward to the next video every time I see you. Thanks again for all you do to help everyone stay informed
Paul just wanted to say I've never seen anyone go over this bit of information or food for thought. Good looking out. I thought about this not too long ago. My 1911 tends to beat them up a bit. So I always just kind of wondered in the back of my head. If I could give your hand a shake I would by God. Only because your videos are a priceless treasure trove of experience that should be shared so the knowledge isn't lost from a valuable member of society in my opinion. You do a good service sir appreciate you.
Can tell he’s an expert by the way he doesn’t flag his hand over the end of the barrel even without looking
Great information. Thanks Paul
Thank You Paul, for another good and informative video. Keep up the good work, it's much appreciated Paul!
I get setback on many 357 sig rounds after one chambering, glocks are notorious for it with that feed ramp angle, barrels are proof tested well beyond the pressure a compressed charge could produce, Buffalo Bore even mentions glocks as causing setback on their site.
I too have setback issues with my glock 31,32, and 33 in 357sig.
@@JohnNumber5 The 92 is the least likely to setback, with the 357 Sig it is quite likely many of the rounds are getting compressed as they are fed especially in Glock.
The reduced overall length is really the one you want to watch out for.
That said, new firearms are more prone to catching the nose of a round. The first time I fired my glock(not my first gun, just Glock), it was deafening. Upon inspection, there was a nice copper gouge on the feedramp where the hollow point dug into it and set back the projectile increasing the chamber pressure.
Thank you for this lesson. I was wondering about this issue and of course you had the answer i needed.
This video may have just saved my life. When he reminded me to do maintenance and checks, I noticed that my trigger wouldn't reset! The pivot pin had started to rust from sweat!
I'm surprised he didn't mention more about the dangers of some of these issues, particularly bullet setback. He talked about it, and how to tell, how it happens, etc., but really other than talking about cost and how it shouldn't be a factor, he didn't mention the dangers or what it can do. A lot of kabooms can be traced back to increased pressures from it. And it's more prevalent than people realize - I have a whole box of self defense ammo that has gotten "tagged out" over the years. Most, I find that rechambering about 4 times is the max. Cor-Bon, only about twice. If the ammo isn't well crimped, and you carry an autoloader, you MUST be observant. But yeah...good video, but I feel like it really needed more.
I agree. Kinda was expecting a demo of firing some setback rounds.
You " feel" like it needed more....ok Safety Sally
Wut. That sounds extremely implausible that it would somehow increase pressure to a dangerous level. Please cite a source on physics of that, or at least an example of anything like that happening.
By "a lot of Kabooms" and what else you say it sounds like you're suggesting specifically overpressure, did you mean to say out of battery?
Lol hahahahahaha you make me laugh
@@beargillium2369 As the bullet is pushed deeper into the case the free space, ie volume decreases. With less volume pressure increases. In reloading minimum overall length is very important for this reason.
Thank you Paul for all the information you bring to us. What entered my mind is, you need to train at the range with your CC pistol. Shoot your older ammo then and put fresh ammo in your pistol after you are done.
but what about my hertenberger buscadero ticoooondas, i don't want to shoot my ticoooondas.
Useful information, thank you.
Good presentation. Thank you.
Great video. I’ve heard this debated for years and what I eventually started doing was rotating my top round to the bottom like you mentioned when I do my monthly inspection and cleaning. That way you can go many months before ever re-using a single round more than once, and if you shoot even at a minimum a few times a year and buy fresh ammo, that should never be an issue.
Great presentation, Paul. One gun in my ECD rotation is a 1911 which, like the one you were showing, has an appetite for chewing up the case with the extractor after multiple chamberings. The solution I came up with is rotation exactly as you described. At the end of the rotation, I have 7 rounds of hollow points to add to the range ammo. (It never hurts to keep in practice for point of impact with your SD rounds anyway.)
Have a gunsmith smooth and polish the extractor AND the magazine feed lips.
Excellent video, Paul. Thanks!
Great video, thank you for the insight!
I always think about this actually... Because I unload and load my pistols a lot. I just compare it to the other rounds and so far no damage of any kind. But I still rotate the rounds in the mag. Great video.
I have had rounds that I continue to load it, the projectile has been pushed into the casing further.
Depending on the manufacture some will have extra sealant or a nicer crimp/ ribbing on the bullet to grab better.
@@brightly9318 which could cause overpressure and kaboom
@@mrPauljacob right
This is a great video I’ve wondered this myself for many years, but never found the time or ammo to test these theories thank you so much Paul!!
great knowledge as always. Keep making videos and we'll keep watching!
I literal love watch and listening your well spoken presentation. I could listen to then over and over again.
I found it to be good practice to switch out my carry ammo once a year.
That's what most police departments do too, it makes sense.
@@chrisjones6002 I know its fiction but in and episode Adam-12 Office Jim Reed changed his ammo after 6 months. Of course that was also 1968 and his hand gun was a revolver.
I hope you are shooting it out more than once a year! I generally shoot my current mag of carry ammo at the start of each practice session and then shoot practice ammo and then load fresh carry ammo until the next practice session. Sure, a little more expensive, but ensures fresh carry ammo and that the carry ammo functions reliably in the firearm.
When I was on the job, we shot off our carry ammo at our biannual qualifications.
@@LTVoyager Yup, there's a very good case for not using ammo that you can't afford to practice with. I think Paul covered this a couple of times at least.
Greetings Paul, I share my experience as a Puerto Rican police officer, a few years ago I was assigned an S&W 4006 and I began to have the habit of opening the slide and putting an ammunition in the chamber and releasing the slide and then inserting the full magazine. I did this for a few months before being sent to the range for training and realizing that with this I damaged the extractor and my gun only fired once or twice before having an extraction failure. When I took it to the gunsmith, he told me that possibly the fact of releasing the slide instead of driving it smoothly could have caused damage to the extractor. We now have Sig Sauers P320 9mm and I prefer to load "normally".
I was very curious why Paul said not to drop a round in the chamber and was disappointed when he didn't elaborate. Than you for sharing!
@@damoclesecoe7184 same. I’ve done this for years with my carry ammo & never had any extractor issues. I carry all Glocks for what it’s worth. Luckily I don’t unload my carry guns very often, basically only when I’m training with them about once a week. And when I’m on the range I load them “normally.”
I've always done it this way too, and was disappointed Paul didn't elaborate. I only have one difference and that is, once I drop a round into the chamber I don't let the slide freefall, I support it as it moves forward and then press it until the extractor clicks over the rim. I've never seen a problem from doing that, Maybe I've just been lucky. Barretta, Colt, Ruger, and S&W are the pistols used.
@@ShanLiB For what it's worth, when the gunsmith and I looked at the ammunition I regularly used for loading, it did have several fairly pronounced marks on the rim.
@@xVictorDavidx Yes, I can understand that happening when the slide is allowed to slam forward. That's why I don't do it. Also, as a reloader, I'm very careful about inspecting all aspects of the case before using it again.
You made a great point about people NOT cleaning their EDC. At least once a month I shoot a mag through the EDC, and break it down for an inspection and cleaning if needed. They can and sometimes will get dirty just carrying. I use an EDC round that's been chambered several times in that mag. The wife and I have the luxury of a pistol range at the ranch, and shoot our designated target firearms the most (every other day) after EDC break-in.
Thanks Paul! You are My Favorite Gun Nerd! And I say that with Great Respect Brother!
my taurus g2c had almost a 90 degree feed ramp wall it had to climb over to get chambered, my reloaded ammo always had giant blemishes and scratches on it. Im guessing this probably explains my FTF problem.... or because it was made in brazil hehe
100% agree with you. I try not to chamber the round too many times and also try to shoot ammo every so often and keep fresh hollow points in my carry guns.
Very good presentation, as usual. I recommend firing your self defense ammo every so often. Keeping a magazine full of Ticondas unfired for years is bad MOJO. At least every few practice sessions run your carry ammo. Good to re-check for point of aim & reliability. Keep the serious business stuff relatively fresh !
thank you for the video paul ive been wondering this for awhile
Any words of wisdom coming from you is a valuable lesson thanks again for a great video
Great topic. I have (after a long time) noticed the top round that I would recycle after chambering and then unloading my cc that the projectile recessed into the casing, noticeably enough to make me curious to compare lengths of the rounds lower in the magazine. Also, extractor wear on the rim and/or brass casing from feeding. I usually just inspect after some time, and discard said round and use that ammo in the magazine as range ammo.
Good practice, bullet setback can cause excessive pressure if bad enough.
Wish that you would do a part two to this: expound and explore whether that damage from chambering a round multiple times affects the accuracy of that specific bullet compared to the non chambered rounds.
Surface-level scratches to a shell casing shouldn't affect performance. If the _projectile_ is damaged or the case is dented or corroded, you should throw it out.
So basically, what Paul already said. I don't think individually testing a bunch of rechambered cartridges would teach us anything we haven't already learned from _this_ presentation.
When bullet recession happens, its unsafe to shoot them. The projectile can over pack the powder. Making a bigger boom than manufacturers recommend specifications.
Do you want Paul to damage his firearms? Or blow a pistol up in his hand?
When recession happens its best just to throw them away. I keep 1 just for showing friends when they ask about this.
At least, thats what my research has shown me. I'm ready to be corrected if anyone knows more. Lol
@@daylightrider6078 I like your idea, especially that you might not be correct. You don’t know everything & that’s alright with you. I think that I might like to know you.
@@dirtfarmer7472 gotta be open to the possibility im wrong lol. Thank you.
Another great video! Thanks!
Excellent video from Dr. Paul! Thanks
Paul Harrell is the greatest!! He answers questions no other channels ( that I know of) will take on! Thank you Mr Harrell for sharing your education and knowledge!!!
9:30 one of my favorite comic series, Schlock Mercenary, created a list of pithy, mostly-humorous aphorisms, The Seventy Maxims Of Maximally-Effective Mercenaries. Your line of discussion about ammunition costs reminded me of Maxim 46: "Don't try to save money by conserving ammunition."
Hello Sir, I hope you ,family and friends are all well. When I served in the Police, once a month we would unload all our magazines (usually a Sunday morning) put the top round into a bucket. Go to the range and just fire them. And reload the magazines with the remaining rounds, plus one. It worked for us. Take care and stay safe everyone, Tim W, England.
That fly at 00:25 had to be paid actor. That just way too perfect of a timing.
Paul, I've recently subscribed to your channel and thoroughly love watching and listening to all your various topics. The wide variety of Information and the way only you can expound on these different subjects is very satisfying. Glad your not one of those that just rambles on and on about a whole lot of useless nothingness. Keep doing what you do, love it.
It might just be Sig V-Crown but I tested out racking full magazines in my CZ P07 and I didn't notice much difference until the 5th-6th magazine. I also tested out in a G3C and I noticed the bullet set back noticeably after the first magazine.
Another excellent video. This is information I needed to hear. It is also related to safety which is first priority.
As always, great video and good information.