Makarov: The Soviets Adopt Some Weird Proprietary Caliber
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2023
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The Makarov, designed by Nikolay Makarov, was the Soviet Union's new post-WW2 handgun. The whole Soviet small arms suite was changed in the late 1940s and early 1950s, and the Makarov was intended to address a number of concerns with the TT33 Tokarev pistols. The Tokarev was a relatively challenging pistol to shoot, with its potent 7.62x25mm cartridge. It was also associated with a lot of accidental discharges, as it had no mnaul safety besides a half-cock notch in the hammer. The new pistol needed to be small, lighter, easier to use, and safer. In addition, with the replacement of the PPSh and PPS submachine guns with the new Kalashnikov, the pistol no longer needed to share ammunition with any other small arms. This led to development of a moderately-powered 9mm cartridge, the 9x18 Makarov (actually designed by Boris Semin). That cartridge used a 9mm land diameter, meaning that it was actually 9.2mm by typical Western measurement (groove diameter).
Mechanically, the Makarov drew many design elements from the Walther PP family. It was a simple blowback pistol with a single stack 8-round magazine and a double action hammer fired system. It was formally adopted in 1951, with full scale production beginning at Factory 622 in Izhevsk in 1953 and the final perfected design realized in 1955. It remained the standard Soviet military sidearm right up to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
In addition to Soviet production, the Makarov was manufactured in East Germany, Bulgaria, and China. A greta many of these have been imported into the US, although not very many Soviet examples.
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My dad was in the East German Army, his thoughts about the Makarov are "It is good for eight warning shots and one precise throw".
And?
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was told about it. Given the idea behind the design it makes a lot more sense though.
Experience of Croatian Army during our war was the same. Also most people were aware of more modern and reliable SIG, Glock and CZ in police service or private use who all used 9mm Parrabellum cartridge. So the choice for them was obvious.
@@Republikaner1944 I can imagine by the 80s pretty much any level of body armor someone could get would stop 9x18. even flak vests probably were sufficient.
@@dominuslogik484 But we did not use body armor in our war.
"The Kalashnikov was developed as a submachinegun, and you're not gonna chamber your sidearm in 7.62x39"
In another life, another time, they absolutely did
Ask about who's got the Draco in Chicago....guarantee you'll find 1...
Guarantee Brandon Herrera has a couple he made in his workshop for kicks.
EYO BRANDON!
I'd buy that for a dollar!
They got the single shot "AKs" handguns, but magazine fed are all custom jobs as I've heard about
Using a single spring for both the hammer and the mag catch is some CLEAN engineering.
It's extremely elegant overall. I remember Glock (rightfully) boasting that it has like 34 parts. Makarov has 32 (or even less, depending on how you count). For instance, a single milled part that does the entire work of safety and decocker.
They took the Walther PP/K and legitimately made it better for military use.
Ian mentioned a drop safety in his holster video but never explained it.
The firing pin is cut in a triangular shape with deep relief cuts that make it both strong and light. Strong enough to detonate a primer reliably indefinitely, but light enough that you can drop it and it'll never generate enough inertia to touch off a primer on its own. Simplistic brilliance.
@@Dominic1962not for military. More for police and counterintelligence forces. That's why st has such weak cartridge (Parabellum is much powerful and much better for military use)
BTW Militsiya and KGB also used TT until 1990-s
@@VP_S2Didn't KGB use the PB?
I've always thought the best way to understand the Makarov cartridge is to think of it as the soviets saying, "What is the most powerful cartridge we can use in a reasonably practical unlocked breech pistol?" When you conceptualize it like that, the entire thing makes a lot more sense.
It is exactly what it is, based loosely on the wartime German 9x18 Ultra cartridge concept. The Germans thought-what is the most powerful thing we can jam into a simple blowback pistol (not locked and also nothing odd and heavy like an Astra) like the Walther PP for forces like the Luftwaffe that don’t need or want something big like a Luger. The Soviets looked at it and thought-perfect! Now make a Soviet version, and here we have the Makarov. Basically a bit bigger Walther PP in a cartridge damn close to the 9mm Ultra.
It also makes more sense when you realize that the main use of the pistols would be "internal security" and not combat. Russia, like most of Europe saw the handgun on the battlefield as more a way to distinguish Officers from everyone else. With the combined arms on a battlefield: rifles, machine guns and DMR weapons, not to mention artillery and tanks, the troops had everything they needed. But pistols would mainly be issued to police, special police, and political enforcers, who would not worry too much about anyone shooting back at them, and so the lower powered, compact weapon was ideal.
I think there's some truth to the idea that a 9mm technically can be fired from a Makarov but a Makarov round won't fit in a NATO gun. It's not practical. But it might have gotten a Soviet higher up to sign off on it.
@@KevinJDildonik I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but 9mm Luger or 9x19 is dimensionally completely different than 9mm Mak or 9x18. Neither round will physically fit in a chamber designed for the other. Even if you somehow managed to force it to fit, 9x19 would probably blow up a 9x18 gun due to the higher chamber pressure.
You're right, both rounds head-space on the case mouth, a 9mm Luger/Parabellum would be too long and way too dangerous to pistol and shooter alike.@@ianloughney9570
"Is not safe. Is gun!"
- Tokarev
To be honest it wasn't Tokorev wish, it was Marshel Budyonny idea, because he had one trouble in Civil war with safety of Browning 1903.
@@viktordragovich94 This story bears repeating, that sounds fascinating.
@@viktordragovich94 this is outright nonsense. Budyonny had nothing to do with TT. I think if Budyonny had some influence on the development of the TT pistol. the result would be something similar to a Mauser C 96 pistol
This is complete nonsense. that idiot in the video said there were a lot of accidents on TT. and he is outright lying. he doesn't have any statistics. and given that soldiers who, according to the regulations, were supposed to have a pistol. Almost everyone was armed with Nagant revolvers. my grandfather went through the entire war as a tank driver and had rights to a TT, but he preferred a Nagan because it was smaller and lighter than a TT. and if it happened that he had to fight outside the tank, then in this case he had a PPSh and 10-15 grenades were stored in the tank
@@jah886 That's crazy.
Did he write any of it down? Because right now you're just the dude screaming "NO STATISTICS" while having.... no statistics.
The Makarov cartridge may not have been designed for submachine guns. But it sure did end up in a lot of them by the end, including the PP-19 Bizon, PP-91 KEDR, PM-63 RAK, PM-84 Glauberyt, Shipka and others.
It is designed mainly for Stechkin Pistol, there was idea that will be PDW for officers, drivers, artillery crew e.t.c and Makarov was designed for senior officers. But happend that what is hapend
The Shipka nowadays has a 9×19mm Parabellum version as well.
Never heard of the PM-84. Looks hideous, like an AI-generated Uzi.
The PM-63 RAC is a subgun solely designed to put the shooters eye out...
I'm not sure any caliber was designed for submachine guns since 9mm and .45 acp predate the submachine gun concept
I think Soviet pistols being mistakenly imported as East German ones can be pretty easily explained by the fact that Russian troops did not officially leave Germany until 1994. Soviet troops in East Germany would almost certainly have been issued with Soviet-manufactured equipment, and any Soviet-made piece that "falls off the back of a truck" would be indistinguishable to the average person from an East German piece.
did the russians really stayed in germany until 1994? i didn't know that, do you know where can i get more info on that?
@@EmpanadaDeCaca yeah apparently some stuck around even after the Soviet Union collapsed because they did not want to return to Russia.
@@yoshilovesyoshi But im talking about troops official presence in the country well after the wall was down. Not defectors if that's what you referring to.
@@EmpanadaDeCacaRussian Federation troops. There are news articles from 1994 about it. Under the treaty that allowed for the reunification of Germany, the Berlin occupation troops of all four Allied powers had to then to leave.
They also just likely received Soviet guns before local production was sufficient.
For 20 years I have had a makarov in my collection. I currently carry a Russian made Mak under certain circumstances. It is not the perfect carry weapon but has filled a niche for me over the years. Despite the sub par sites it is accurate and is one of the best natural pointing guns I own. I have yet to have a single failure after countless rounds including garbage surplus and new defense loads. The pistol is built like a tank.
Greetings from Chile Bob!! You just posted what I want to know, how convenient is for americans concealed carry this pistol. I have more questions: The price of defense ammo is worth in comparison with other more popular rounds? And the other question is how available is for you folks concealed carry holsters? Thanks!!
@@Tito_VieraI carry my East German Mak with a custom shoulder holster, and use Buffalo Bore JHP. KGB/secret-agent feels. 😉
Honestly, your comment and Ian's explanation of the pistol's intended use explain a lot. My father always told me to avoid these, and I generally took him at his word on guns, he was literally an Olympic caliber marksman, but seeing what they were actually intended for, plus you know, Soviet reliability, I can see why he didn't like them, but I can see why they would be a decent carry/defense pistol.
@@anaxis I feel like good JHP ammo in 9x18 still holds up against a target with no body armor
@@Spookie425 works good for coyotes; but I've always wanted to load & try semi-wadcutters, if they'll feed.
I went to a firing range in Finland, where I specifically wanted to shoot the Makarov. The staff told me a Russian customer some time ago wanted to shoot it too, because it was familiar to him. Apparently the said Russian had commented: ”It is not a good gun, but we have plenty.”
@@ryantogo8359 My brother in Christ he was just providing an anecdote
@@ryantogo8359stop looking for internet arguments, it’s not healthy
It may suck, but I like the soviet asthetic.
@ryantogo8359 They weren't trying to prove a point, so "anecdotal evidence" doesn't apply
@@ryantogo8359you must be so fun at parties
Fun fact the Makarov was also the first ever firearm to go to space. So this is technically a Soviet space gun.
Why bring a pistol into space?
There are only two things you can shoot at: yourself or your spaceship.
@@JH-lo9ut I mean it makes sense. 1 to study how a firearm works in space. 2 the Soviets didn't know what was in space, they could have been prepared if aliens were real. 3 they didn't know exactly what technology America had either. Imagine being a Soviet astronaut and getting into a gun fight in space with American astronaut. Bad ass.
@@JH-lo9ut The Soviet capsules land in the tundra. Think wolves and bears looking for something to eat in that tin can. Often it takes hours to reach them. The Russians eventually developed something like the old US M6 survival rifle for cosmonauts.
@@JH-lo9utit's most likely isn't for shooting in space, but for survival situations when they land back on earth: hunting and self-defense
As an old Russian I can tell that significant number of those classic Soviet non-NFA registered guns manufactured on the territory of Izhevsk were smuggled into the US after getting bought by traveling enterpreneurs from across whole Europe during early 1990's as local racketeers and powermongers were getting richer by draining military warehouses, via bribing petty officers to nick those pieces for them, for future reselling. Security establsihment and written accounting on such objects back then were pretty bad, to be honest. It's better now, for the most part.
I would love to have a Soviet Makarov, with proper arsenal markings. I have to "settle" for a Bulgarian model. Bulgos are fine, but every one here wants a Triangle/Lightning bolt arsenal marked Makarov.
Pretty much the Lord of War movie.
uhu and???
Yanks always want what they don’t have.
There's a number of Cold War era guns (and older) that, due to their obscene numbers and rugged endurance, will probably keep soldiering on for at least another century, if not longer. Guns that will likely see combat on other planets, potentially against entirely different species, long after their original creators and intended users are dust.
The Makarov is 100% one of those guns.
In Ukraine there's still WW2 guns being used
@@remu6841pre WW1 guns are being used dude
>pacifies alien POW retro style
@@BoredLikeHelI Does it count if the gun itself was produced untill the end of WW2?
@@remu6841 Ukraine is an excellent example of old guns popping up and being surprisingly effective, even in a modern war of such grand scale. Sure, it was mostly the first half of the war and mostly in the hands of militia forces for either side, but still; you can't say that old guns don't still slap. There's live proof to the contrary.
In the concealed carry community I see people mocking safeties and carrying with an empty chamber, but as an experienced outdoor worker I feel like if you are driving trucks for the Army you want a pistol to be carried in a condition where you can bang it into objects or drop it while you bending over to unload something and it is perfectly safe. Odds are you aren't going to fight off an ambush with your Makarov or 1911. You carry it so people are deterred from trying to steal your truck.
Edit: Ian certainly doesn't agree with this in regards to the Makarov. Maybe the Tokarev. And not with organizations that do this as a rule. He is very persuasive: ua-cam.com/video/TUr0zLnGA3A/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
your usage of "but as an experienced outdoor worker" implies you disagree with the CCW community consensus, then you go on to describe points that agree with them
My service weapon is/was (not sure when they will fully switch to Glocks) a FN HP-DA, and it sure has no safety! We also didn't carry it in a holster, just in out pockets...
That describes the Makarov. Even with a round in the chamber and the hammer down, it's exceptionally safe. The double action pull is long and heavy for a reason - you're not going to do it accidentally. There is also a hammer block that keeps the hammer away from the firing pin until you pull the trigger.
@@DrJeffDrJeff Yea the trigger is really heavy and we weren't given ammo anyway
"Empty chamber" bullshit the concealed carry community (broadly speaking about Redditors and Fudds) seem to worship the idea of carrying a 1911 hot. Wish they'd learn about Viagra instead. Viagra is cheaper and doesn't usually result in murdering your own children. (To repeat the statistic: Guns in the home kill more kids than bad guys. Talk about safety all you want. En masse, it's still true.)
My first pistol was a Baikal IJ-70 Makarov that I bought for $69.99 at a gun show in San Antonio in 1993. 10/10 would recommend.
Can you use any makroav clip an did you shoot 9mm with it?
I just turned 18 and bought an original Makarov from the Soviet Union, thanks for this video.
Greetings from Switzerland
I've always thought the Makarov is one of the most beautiful pistols I've ever seen. Such clean lines.
Meh, hold one and look inside of it...then hold a CZ82 and look inside of it.
Makarov? Well designed and sturdily built but So little craftsmanship.
@@JD-tn5lz I've never actually held one, I just like the lines of it. I also believe the Czechs probably have a more refined design in the Cz82 because they usually do.
@@wernervoss6357to each his own, and we all have the privilege of our own experiences, but that's the first strong negative feelings about the 75s I've ever heard. The old saying of "if you live long enough you'll hear everything."
Of course, I only use the decocker versions of the 75. I strongly prefer DA/SA (however I carry HK, not CZ) since I actually do carry in my profession and genuine "shoot/no-shoot" situations are part of my life.
The 82s and 83s are very different than the 75 system. Think of a double stack PP that actually molds into your hand.
@@JD-tn5lz A Bulgarian Mak was the second pistol I bought, 25 years ago. Its sits in the nightstand to this day. It's natural pointing ability has much to do with my preference for it. MY CZ 82 (also 9x18) is very similar in feel and handling but doesn't decock like My 75 PCR, Ruger P97DC (45 ACP), and the Mak. that said, the 82 has polygon rifling and inspection seems to show that chrome has worn off nearly halfway down the bore. I'll carry the Mak or the 82 before the 75. Not sure what you mean to say that Mak isn't SA/DA. (I wouldn't carry the 82 cocked & locked.)
I like how the grips look like bakelite dongs
everyone asks "why is makarov" never "how is makarov"
Silly boy, Makarov does not have feelings
@@dunmeroverlordyeah, even the weak one from the recent reboot is a cold guy, with whatever it was he tried to gain...
@@paleoph6168Virgin "time is everything" vs Chad "remember no russian"
Still dead. (Since 1988.)
Very deep 😞
My friend in Kazakhstan mentioned to me once that police used to carry Tokerev but stopped for the exact reasons mentioned here. Police would shoot someone and the bullet would rip through them and continue so far and hurt other unintended targets.
We have that issue in the US to this day, it's primarily a skill issue. Just the thought of needing better equipment because your tactics are bad, what a frivolous idea.
While you can't control what someone else is doing or how they're moving, you can control yourself can align yourself so that when you fire there isn't anything you don't want to hit behind your target. It's nearly 2024 and American police still haven't realized this, though it looks like police in Kazakhstan have.
Edit: Shooting and moving is a thing. Once again, skill issue. Learn to shoot and move, plebs.
@@domenik8339 Ah yes, overpenetrating ammunition being not suitable for self-defence and law enforcement is a "skill issue".
That's just funny.
@@domenik8339 shut up redditer
@@domenik8339ah so they switched to low power ammo to resolve their "skill issue".
@@domenik8339 bro really said "skill issue" lmao
A Bulgarian Makarov was my first semi-auto pistol and I paid a whopping $120 for it (BNIB) way back in the early 90s. I loved that little pistol so much. Of course, like an idiot, I sold it but I did get my money back so I didnt lose anything, but I sure do regret letting that one go.
In the same time frame, I paid $135 each for a pair of East Germans. They are very nice pistols with surprisingly good triggers in both single and double action. Fit and finish are great and accuracy is quite good as well.. I then bought a Russian for $149. Workmanship was not nearly as good, trigger was gritty, but it worked. I bought the Germans just for knock-around guns but then decided that they were too nice, hence the purchase of the Russian. Reliability was 100% in all three. This was in the days before polymer micro pistols. I still have them, no regrets.
On the sixth day of December, Gun Jesus uploaded for us all: one PM Makarov and its proprietary caliber.
Keep up the upload streak, Ian! And love the title lol.
Somehow, it *looks* like it rhymes better when you spell it "calibre".
🎶🎵 Gun Jesus posted for meeee
A video on the Makarov and it's proprietary calibreeeee 🎶🎵
P.S. what are the odds that pristine Makarov has some Agency backstory? Diplomatic bag, my as----
first day of christmas is the 25th of dec. 6th day is the 30th of dec...
Well done, well done, I had a good laugh at that😂❤ Seriously, this was a fantastic video. I've never seen a Makarov disassembled and I never knew how it was unloaded. As always, I love the history and technical details.
Now you need the other eleven days!😂
Edit: Lemme try;
On the first day of Christmas my True Love gave to me a bag for for three belts and a fully-loaded MG-3!
How was that?
Yep, they basically wanted simple and reliable pistol. And I would say more for police forces, than military ones.
100% correct considering that Soviet military was all about policing its own citizens... not fighting with any real external enemy.
@@Bialy_1 Soviet military rarely was used for policing, there were enough dedicated LE forces for that
@@Bialy_1Yeah historically Russians aren't actually interested at all in fighting external enemies, I totally agree.
Police forces - yes, but only during the Soviet times. Polish Police using P64 or 83 (both similar to Mak) had quite a few hairy duels with criminals after '89, resulting in casualties on the Police side. If you encounter a determined criminal with something like CZ-75, P38, or even TT, you may be in a disadvantageous position. This wasn't necessarily the case before the transformation, although there were plenty of happy-trigger-happy criminals before 1989. Here are real Polish People's Police CT guys featured in a TV show (how cool is that?): ua-cam.com/video/yh97lRXXBwc/v-deo.html . And you can see they are not equipped in Makarows. There's a gossip that the tactics used in this clip was real.
@@mpopenkerAnd most of the time they didn't even have guns during said policing, just shields and batons (kida like modern riot gear).
Don't know if someone already mentioned this but in post-WW2 regular armies handgun was more a badge of rank than serious fighting tool, outside SF of course. In that role Makarov is top notch.
Yep, in that it is apparently specifically designed to NOT shoot the owner/carrier
A Bulgarian Makarov was my first CCW, back in the 90's when lighter, higher capacity options were either scarce or prohibitively expensive. I passed it along to my wife and it's her favorite range pistol.
It’s a fav of mine as well…
Lol how much ccw situations have you and your wife been in
"How much situations"? Pretty much daily when I lived in town and worked nights. My wife doesn't have a CHL, so she doesn't carry.
I have an IJ-70 (the “sporter” export variant). It is a lovely little concealed carry gun, with a power falling between that of a .380 ACP and 9mm Parabellum.
Great video! Just a few notes: The official decree for adoption of the PM, APS, and 9x18 Mak ammuntion was signed December 3rd, 1951. However, no pistols were produced that year (or the year before). Prototypes were produced at Tula in 1947/48, and at Izhevsk in 1949. Tooling was setup, and production actually began in very late 1952 with only a few hundred or so examples made, but no pistols left the factory doors (or were issued) until early circa 1953. Thus why 1953 is widely considered "the beginnning of production". Just over 100K pistols were produced in that very first "official year". The Russian Federation also still produces the Military PM til' this day, but in much smaller made-for-order numbers, and it's still very much the primary sidearm of both Russian Military and Police forces.
I was given a Bulgarian Makarov by a friend. It's a fine little pistol, simple and reliable and just odd enough to be interesting. I put a fab defense grip on it, and now it has a better feel in hand as well as a convenient and easy lever for dropping an empty mag. The new grip makes it handle really well, it's a great carry piece now.
I bought two back at the turn of the century. The fab defense grip is a great addition that I would also recommend to anyone.
Agreed. Pearce or Fab Defense.
Mine has the new improved grip as well. Makes the gun feel so good in the hand, and with a thumb release for the mag, it is more compatible with modern firearms. The thing I like most about the gun is that it hits where you point it. Aiming is almost automatic, and that's good because the sights suck.
@@eddybrandt3547 Yeah, it's a "point-shoot" gun for sure. Super handy. I actually really like the caliber too, 9mm parabellum tending to go straight through things and Makarov being a tamer cartridge. Hornady max defense rounds bump the lethality back up. It's kind of a goldilocks gun, IMO.
"Welcome to Non-Forgotten Weapons."
I got a Bulgarian Makarov some years ago. It's been 100% reliable and shoots minute of bad guy at social distances. I like it.
I own a early sixties Soviet Makarov and I’m always surprised how damn accurate that pistol is. It really was a great service pistol in that time.
@@ratgobbler It’s rather snappy, but that’s to be expected from straight blowback pistol. My pistol does spit the spent cases straight back.
My ex has one that she let me shoot during a few range trips. While the cartridge is merely adequate as far as power goes, it has been probably the most accurate semi-auto I've shot. I've wanted one for myself since then but they are hard to find in shops in my area.
The first pistol I ever bought when I turned 21. Got it for $200 back then. Love it & has never jammed on me :)
My friend while he was in army ( border guard) takes part in regional shooting competition. He made 95/100 from PM at 25 meters at the chest target #4. Bulls eye 100 mm in diameter. Pre army he was sportsman in pistol shooting
once upon the times( 1980 - 1985) me and my friends were going to the shooting range near my village to pick up some bullets. for Kalashnikov, PPS or Sudaev one we had to dig the ground. for Makarov we only had to wolk arround - on a 100 metres distance they were falling like a hail on the ground. however Makarov is a very robust and reliable pistol. I have never seen or heard about Makarov's misfire.
It’s reliable and easy to use, just not very accurate. Some officers I knew joked that PM was good enough only to shoot yourself in case of emergency)
@@1xeshm верно. помню третяя огнемётная рота были вооружёные пистолетами - во время учения, кроме всего прочего, была команда время от времени "по нисколетающим самолётм огонь". они должный были лечь на спину и растрелять нисколетающие самолёты. как командование себе представляло такое событие по сей день не знаю
@@boychoboychev67 не п...и
Низколетающий😀
@@alexandrgarkusha2154 это на болгарском. я не знаю как на русском будет.
Still one of my favorite pistols. I always felt that, while simple and a bit crude, the Makarov was an improvement over the Wather PP/PPK. I also love the way it looks. While I stopped carrying one because I grew up and realized that saving weight, improving capacity, and being able to use a light were all more important than looking cool, this pistol still holds a special place in my heart.
It definitely looks good and is still the business.
Ya see, theres where your wrong: looking the coolest is definitly the name of the game. You may think me odd, but no one out cools me when I'm carrying my Webley Mk. III. People ask me with a wide-eyed stare, "Is that a .45 cal revolver?" And I go "no, its a .455 caliber handgun, ole boy."
Same here! I don’t carry mine anymore, but I feel nostalgic about all the time I did carry it and so I’ll never sell it.
@@CharlesYuditsky It's funny when you think about it but the .445 always sounds bigger than the .45 projectile.
I love my makarov they’re just so simple, and they’re just a very pretty design
The Makarov is my favorite pistol, it's such a kickass little thing, and it can be used as a bottle opener when the slide is locked back
One of the last "Old Reliable" pieces of Soviet Russia, with a lot of love.
I got a Russian IJ-70 Makarov for $150 new in the box in 1995. But with the adjustable rear sight and chambered for .380. I always liked it. It's pleasingly rugged. The adjustable sight which was required for importation was actually not bad. Though I did wind up drilling and tapping the base for two set screws so it would hold adjustment under recoil. Very tough hard steel. Had to anneal it down a little, and the tap was done for afterwards. But it worked, and it's a perfectly adequate handgun. If a bit utilitarian and lacking in style. Though compared to the uncomfortable grotesque blocky unpleasant plastic contraptions that are so common now, it's practically Sean Connery in a tuxedo circa 1965.
I became enamored with the 9x18 way back in the 1980s when a gunscribe managed to get his hands on a Makarov PM, had some custom ammo made and reviewed it. This interest was renewed a couple decades later when we had the infamous ammo scarcity. I could not find one box of .380 but I could get my hands on tons of 9x18, even decent JHPs. I bought a Radom P64 that still gets carry time to this day (resprung, of course because nobody wants a 25 pound DA trigger), and a CZ82. These were my main BUG/OD guns in my police days. Great video! Also, anyone else remember when you could get a Makarov, holster, and 2 mags for $99? Anyone besides me still kicking themself?
Plenty of Soviet revolutionaries had sidearms in 7.62×54R
My Bulgarian Mak was my very first pistol, I think I paid $165 new in about 1993, about the same time I got my $99 SKS. Since then I have bought a surplus CZ 82 in 9x18 and been sorely tempted by those Polish RAK imports.
I would say that the Makarov was a near ideal weapon for its intended purpose, that of a compact sidearm. It was relatively safe to handle by soldiers with less than ideal training, Its single action/double action with decocker was ahead of its time.I have three, two East Germans and a Russian. The fit, finish, and triggers of the Germans are very nice. I paid $135 each in the early 90s. Not too long afterward I bought a Russian for $149. It fit the stereotype of a Russian tool, pretty rough, gritty trigger, but 100% reliable.
One comment about the power of the 9 x 18. In American commercial loads it does no doubt lie between the .380 and the 9 x 19. Surplus ammunition bought at that time however was a different story. I never ran any across a chrony but it was obviously way more powerful than commercial loads. Corrosive no doubt, but more powerful.
The day of the all steel compact carry pistol has largely passed, but the Makarov served very well in its time.
P.S. It is also a good looking pistol. Something unusual in com-bloc weapons with the exception of those of Czech design.
I found a Makarov during Desert Storm. I was hoping we could bring them back as war souvenirs, but the Commanding General said no. So I used it for dry fire practice until it was time to leave the Middle East. I donated it to the 3rd Armored Division’s museum. Which they gladly accepted.
It's such bullshit that we can't take trophy guns anymore
Is the 3rd Armored Museum still around even though the 3rd Armored got stood down?
@@JaredAF No, but it's artifacts were mostly taken in by the 1AD Museum at Baumholder. That closed at some point after 2002 (probably between 2005 and 2012 when the 1AD moved back to CONUS) and now the 1AD museum is at Fort Bliss, though it's closed for renovation until July 2025. And may be changing it's name.
"..but mommy said no because guns are scawwy"...Thank you for fighting for our freedums.
Makarovs are definitely underrated!
I like the CZ-82. The Czech improvement of the Makarov. Holds 12 rounds, ambidextrous safety and mag release.
I love my Mak. It's like they saw the PPK and said "Hey, we could make a GUN out of that!"
I have E. German and Bulgarian Makarovs, as well as the Polish P64 and Czech CZ82 and 83. I think the Czech's attempt was the best of the Makarov-inspired pistols. The CZ82/83 is very ergonomic, and it has a better magazine catch and safety, as well as having a double-stack magazine.
As a lefty I appreciate the CZ82 being left hand friendly. Even the issue holster is universal for lefty or righty use.
I have a baikal makarov and a cz82 and I love them both vut the cz just feels better in almost every way. But it is a little bit snappier
The P64 is garbage. Horrible first trigger pull, like over 16 lbs, crap grips and cant shuck steel cased rounds like my Izmash can.
@@CharlesYuditsky The Wolff spring kit for the P64 is almost a requirement for them. It drastically improved my P64.
@@JJW3 Never knew it existed. Still hated the gun overall.
I had a Makarov, if I remember right made in Czechoslovakia but it might have been Bulgaria, it was my daily carry for decades and was extremely reliable and quite accurate. Very light compare to my alternate carry an Astra A-75 in .40.
I really loved the Mak the action was very tight and it was very well made, never any issues I don't think it ever failed to fire in the countless times at the range. While I never had to actually fire it in defense I did have to draw it a couple of times.
Together with the German P08 Luger the Makarov is the best pistol of its calibre
I loved my P64. Did my CCW test with it actually. I just hated tracking down ammo for it.
Imagine this dude in 30 years . Absolute legend with so much knowledge.
Wow, that's a classic right there!! Thank you for your research Ian !!
the makarov has to be one of my favourite looking pistols, its just so nice looking to me
Just goes to show...that even ugly girls get dates.
This was my first gun. I bought it in the 90's and it had horrible import markings on the slide. It was marked as .380 and it wouldn't group shots at all. Wonder if they just said it was a 380 but was actually a 9x18. That would explain the poor accuracy. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
I always thought the Makarov was designed to be the most power you could get out of a straight blowback pistol. 9mm Parabellum worked fine in blowback SMGs, but had too much power for a pistol. .380ACP was close to the most power you could get, in a blowback pistol, but Makarov managed to squeeze a bit more.
The Spanish Astra 400 and 600 models shoot a 9mm Largo and 9mm Luger - both are straight blow back.
@@oldmangrady And the Astra 600 had springs so strong that hardly anybody could pull the trigger or rack the slide.
Here in Russia these are THE cop gun to this day, along with the AKSU. I don't think I've ever even SEEN a PMM, granted I live pretty far in the country.
Your book on WWII arrived today. Absolutely fantastic. Well worth the wait and the money.
This unironically answers a question I always had, why didn't the Soviets develop an SMG post WW2 until the Kiparis and now the PP-Bizon? Thank you for the video Ian! This is why I recommend you more than anyone because you're a better teacher at firearms than anyone else!
interesting questions
i think its because they replaced most of their caliber with 7,62x39 and the AK-47 was the role of a rifle and sub machine gun
and the AK was suitable for all sorts of roles (paratroopers, tankers and so on) and a shorter version was later also available
the us was trying something similar with their m14, but you see marines still using m1 thompson in vietnam and the army using m3 grease guns, but they didn't really put any afford to develop a new SMG as i remember, the m3 grease gun was still issued to tank crews,but it was replaced by an ar-15 style of rifle
Also, note that soviets didn't call AK a "sub-machinegun". The term they used was "Avtomat", which just means automatic weapon.
For example, I saw a schematic of PPS in russian, it said: "Avtomat (smg) of Sudaev". Notice the separate mention of smg.
Russian police forces had used AKSU instead of SMG. During 90s criminal waves police patrols with AKSU were common sights in big cities.
The AK-47 was kinda intended as the replacement for the PPSh-41, but with a more powerful round. (Versus the STG-44, which was intended as a lighter, faster Kar-98)
@@MrBlonde294The M3 Grease Gun was replaced by vehicle crews with the M4 Carbine
This is often called the AK of pistols. It's cheap to mass manufacture, uses a widely available and rather reliable caliber, and is still in use by many militaries and police organizations till today even after decades of use. NOTE: The majority of these makarovs in service are in former soviet bloc and USSR allied countries. Meaning that the availability of 9mm Makarov ammo depends on the region that you live in.
Calling 9x18 a “widely available caliber” is kind of a stretch these days, though
@@JD-rt5sd I would tend to agree. It depends on the location as the majority of these makarovs that are still in service are in former soviet bloc nations. Thank you for pointing that out.
@@JD-rt5sdIt would have been a stretch to call it "widely available" at the high point of them being imported. Pre-internet, and having to rely on the local gun shops to stock such an oddball caliber, for a weapon that was widely hated by the gun snobs. A lot of us ended up swapping in .380 barrels just so we had something to shoot.
@@JD-rt5sd Czech Republic - you will find 9mm Makarov ammo in every single gunshop.
@@General_Lee_Oliver what I mean is that even russia, the once largest user of 9x18, has long ago moved to 9x19 in its newest service pistols, the MP443 (oddly enough it’s Ukraine that’s still sticking to 9x18 with most of its Fort pistols, and of course both countries still use old Makarov pistols a lot). So generally speaking it is a dying caliber, just like 7,62 x 25 before it.
I like my Mak alot. Handsome looking pistol, and with that fixed barrel shoots very, very well.
A few other reasons I have heard:
Since the new pistol would be standard for the Military AND police (militia) and the army didn’t regard pistols as serious weapons, the Makarov was developed primarily for Police use, based on the Walther.
Also, after WWII the USSR was absolutely overwhelmed with illegal SMGs and handguns, mostly Nagants, Tokarevs and German pistols. To prevent criminals and insurgents (UPA) from stealing more ammunition for these guns, the 9x18mm was developed to be incompatible with any other weapon.
"But why, specifically, the goofy .363" bullet?", we all ask. Because that's what the cartridge demands when you take the pragmatic design route and adapt 9x19 to simple blowback. Shorten to avoid ammo mix-up/kaboom potential, straighten the walls of the slightly tapered 9x19 case for best functioning in blowback, drop pressures, and abra capocus! Fatter bullet. Deceptively brilliant adaptation.
For this reason, in 1930s Germany the experimental cartridge 9x 18 , called 9mm Ultra was developed, but not used. After wwll West German Police forces had been equiped mostly with pistols in 7,65 Browning/.32 Acp. But in late 1960s crime rose/ raised and also communist terrorists appeared. A stronger cartridge was necessary, but especially the more left politicians didn't want , military ' 9mm Parabellum, so for a short time this 9mm Ultra appeared as 9mm Police again in Germany, but not all policemen had been equiped with PP- Super pistol, pistols in 9mm Parabellum replaced 7,65 Browning pistols. Few SIG pistols had been produced in 9mm Police for Swiss police. Also Austrian police, and perhaps also Dutch police tested weapons in this cartridge.
I always thought the 9x18 was for one way compatibility with 9para. With a bore diameter 008 bigger it would fire 355 para bullets, poorly, but there is almost no way with the low pressure rounds that these would feed and fire from a 9x19 pistol with such an oversize slug.
@@timothybayliss6680 : Those noted german 9x18 cartridge is in diameter different to russian 9x 18 Makarov..
@@timothybayliss6680There is no interchangeability, nor did the Soviets really base their 9mm Makarov cartridge on any Western cartridge. The cartrudge was designed from scratch, to Soviet/Russian traditional standards, meeting the requirements for the gun:
1. 9mm bore size arbitrarily as "bigger than the Tokarev and a nice round number" (amd as Ian mentions, it is 9mm by traditional Russian bore designation standards)
2. At least powerful enough to cause a soldier hit with one to seek medical attention (this was literally an official Soviet doctrine for pistols); more power is nice, but a secondary consideration behind things like "easy to carry", "cheap to manufacture", "easy to shoot", etc.
3. Low enough pressure to allow simple blowback in a relatively small (for a service pistol) sodear., to keep it fairly light, unobtrusive, and inexpensive to manufacture.
The Makarov meets the 1950s Soviet ideal measures of a service pistol, without any consideration for what NATO nations were issuing. It does *exactly* what the Red Army wanted it to do.
My CZ52 is one of the most accurate long range pistols I own. 7.62x25mm is a very flat shooting round and mine will shoot 4" groups at 50 yards. Sights are tiny, but work. Trigger pull is actually pretty good for a military pistol. Problems? Don't dry fire it (the firing pin was often not properly heat treated), and the mags are pretty rough, I once lost the magazine baseplate during a string of fire and dropped ammo all over the the range. Still an interesting, accurate and fun to shoot pistol. I don't regret buying it.
I actually edc my makarov. I love the simplicity and the DA
Makarov is my EDC. It's small, it's accurate, and it used to be dirt cheap.
Ian, as a 3-4 year fan of your wonderful channel, I’m curious as to how much you research for a particular historical weapon. What sources do you access, how much time do you spend on a presentation? Your recount of historical events surrounding the specific weapon you are discussing is amazing and brings even more life to the history of it.
Please keep up with your hard work and thoroughly enjoyable content! 👍👍👊👊
Between telling people that bolt actions are Obsolete and telling them that pistols really don't make that big of a difference in combat, Ian is really working to piss off a lot of people who spend way too much time on the internet. Before long, he's going to have everyone who owns a fedora coming after him
He's sort of correct but also sort of incorrect.
Bolt actions are obsolete as standard combat rifles in the sense that they can't put down a high volume of fire...however...until the human body can tell the difference between a .308 bullet from a bolt gun and a .308 bullet from an AR10, I think obsolete isn't the most correct term.
Handguns in combat? Yeah, they have a place. They have a deservedly fine place as a "oh, shit!" weapon if you want to or have to carry one along with all your other gear.
@@JD-tn5lzI mean a ball from a smoothbore musket will do more damage than 7.62 to human body, but I would choose Ar-10 for combqt 100% of the time
The statement of obsolete follows its definition in this case, as "no longer produced or used; out of date". You're right, a guy with a mosin is still going to kill someone if that round lands, but obsolescence in this sense doesn't mean "non-lethal", it just means out of place and out of date. Modern firearms technology has left that style of firearm in the dust, not because it can't kill, but because things have come out that are arguably better. Sure, the 7.62x54r that comes out of a mosin is nothing to sneeze at, don't get me wrong, but if a 5.45 or 5.56 can do the job just fine and has better characteristics that lend to a better handling, operation or capability than the previous generation, and it ends up being adopted, then, by definition, the previous generation is obsolete. So, you're absolutely right, 308 hurts just fine out of both rifles, but there's a reason people(and police forces, military forces, paramilitary forces, etc.) aren't scampering to bolt guns if you can get a semi automatic 308 that has arguably better characteristics in every regard. And if there's a situation where volume of fire isn't as important as light weight and rugged reliability(say, hunting, where bolt guns sit very comfortably), then those preferable characteristics either become null or the gap narrows considerably.
Basically, since I just wrote you an essay, obsolete does not mean non-lethal. Just means something can do the job better and more readily. @@JD-tn5lz
@@JD-tn5lz He literally addressed that very argument in that famous video. You don't know what the definition of obsolete is.
It depends what kind of "combat" one is talking about. As a police officer I was trained for "combat" of a sort, and pistols were plenty effective. But "combat" with a pistol against hundreds of trained riflemen would be foolish. All depends on who the "enemy" is and what they have.
Please do your research commenters! The mak is one of the most reliable and effective firearms made in the 20th century.
IF IT SUCKED THEY WOULDNT HAVE MADE SO MANY. It’s the AK of the pistol world.
It’s an amazing firearm
I have a commercial Makarov I bought in the early 90s. Until recently I didn’t know there was a specific Makarov ammunition for the thing and had been using 9x18 Ultra out of it because that’s what I was sold with the thing.
“The name’s Makarov, Nikolaj Makarov.”
“The Soviets had lots of guys who accidentally shot themselves with their Tokarev pistols” … that’s their Party line and they stuck to it.
Yes Comrade that is the truth and the whole truth.
"suicide? nyet... accidentally in back of head... da"
You Americans love projecting your own violent organisations' practices on other countries
Kind of like mkultra and the contra affair…
I'm glad the PP was mentioned. That, to me, was the first "modern" handgun. East to take down and clean and reassemble, double action trigger, decocker safety. All it needed was a loaded chamber indicator pin, like the P-38 had.
The CZ-82 is a much better version of the Makarov.
I carried a Tokarev for a couple (young, broke) years, back when a Chi-com Tok was a $90 pistol. I think part of the safety issue is that there is no fast, easy way to bring this gun to bear from condition 2 in a holster. Like the Desert Eagle, the Tok is an ergonomic nightmare to thumb cock with one hand. This can tempt people to thumb the hammer before starting the draw stroke, with predictably bad results.
I mean you might not like the idea of double action, but the Makarov has it. It's literally the same as 1911 in condition 1, unholster, flick safety, pull. That's what it was designed for, you're not supposed to cock the hammer.
@@ayebraine I believe you read "Makarov", but of you look above I wrote "Tokarev". Easy to do.
A Makarov would have been GREAT in those days, but that was $250 I didn't have.
Thank you so much Ian for this video about PM! I like the way you talk about different types of weapons. You do this with great respect! And you pronounce PPSh and Russian surnames correctly! 👍 I have my own story about PM. When I was a little boy, my father (he was an officer in the Soviet Army) gave me a brand new PM holster. It was made in 1973, 2 years after I was born 🙂 I played with it for a long time, my toy guns were stored in this holster. And 25 years later I became a police officer and received a PM, made in the same year - 1973! My PM was a pistol of very good quality. I left it when I finished my service, and my old PM holster is still with me 🙂 I think there will be a second part of the story about the PM family on your channel. About PMM, Izh-71 and more.
I have a Bulgarian military makarov, it’s actually a pretty accurate pistol and not bad to shoot
I have several... they are very accurate. Easy to shoot quickly.
Downside is that they are tough to use with two hands. Soviet ex-pats told me that they were meant to be used one handed.
The Hungarian ones that you can get out there have an American magazine release as opposed to the heel mag release like a PA 63 or a type 59 or type 56
@@jamallabarge2665 Learn how to 'handle" your Makarov with two hands like the "Musketeers"... I made a Makarov video to learn you how to "Thunderfk" trigger pull with two hands and shoot 9 rounds in a quarter second... it really mows them down.
@@bigslinking My problem with my Makavor has been "slide bite". Probably just requires a special grip.
I don't go for volume of fire myself. I prefer fast controlled pairs.
My EDC is a double action revolver, I'm training for life without semiautomatic firearms.
@@jamallabarge2665 Yea that Makarov will bite your hand 9 times before you even feel pain they are so fast. Can't beat a nice quality revolver for bear protection while you're fishing or just out in the bush.
It is difficult to call PM a forgotten weapon, it is still massively a service weapon for law enforcement agencies in Russia.
Actually, the bore and groove dimensions make perfect manufacturing sense as they are the same as the common Russian 9x53mmR hunting rifle cartridge, and FWIW these are similar to a number of other European nominally 9mm or 9.3mm rifle cartridges.
Have a Soviet and East German Makarov. Really impressed with the quality of the German one. Got mine here in Canada from Century (when I worked for them here)
To avoid tearing up fingers on the sharp loading stud on mag, wrap two tight loops of coathanger wire around mag and snip off. It makes a wire elipse for your fingers to push down stud when loading.
This is one of the guns I don't know much about, I was actually going to look it up and then I saw this video! great timing!
Makarov is still widely used today by military and police. It's a nice piece.
Shockingly easy to make good hits. I can ring steel with my G19s like a christmas song but with a Mak it feels like cheating. I don’t like the pistol at all but I still want one lol
Sykov in Modern Warfare
@@jdoerr779I would presume that 9x18 is a less powerful cartrige than 9x19 going through a barrel welded to the frame. I guess that makes it much more easier to shoot. In soviet doctrine it was assigned a role of a firearm to be used by not so skilled shooters so it makes sense to take as much variables from the gun itself as possible and issue it to folks who don't really need a firearm to oppose an active and armed threat but is sufficient to at least stop one.
Hate the european style mag release though.
The only problems are mag-related: low capacity and heel release that sometimes makes mags fall off.
@@Notarget1337 Supposedly it is very snappy for such a small caliber and load. The fixed barrel with a simple blowback design is usually singled out as a reason for that.
I've read a piece of lore about an officer who was issued a Makarov soon after the army switched from the Tokarev. He came home from a trip early, saw his wife in bed with another guy and shot them both but they survived. The story says his superior wrote a memo to the procurement guys asking why the hell did they issue a gun that failed to kill the targets in the hands of an experienced user.
Cuz the engineer was screwing an officer's wife obviously.
Where did he aim?
Standard 9x18 is notorious for being underpowered. And using high pressure ammo inside of a regular Makarov is not a good idea. A lot of countries adopted Makarovs and.Makarov-likes in .380 or 9mm Kurz. It's a dead simple design that doesn't have a lot of recoil and it's dirt cheap.
@@Liminal.Headspace Maks have a suprisingly hard recoil from my experience, stronger than most 9x19 firearms I have shot, the low mass probably doesn't help.
@@Liminal.Headspace “notorious” No it’s not. Just because you heard some edge lord repeat something doesn’t make it true.
When your target is blindfolded and facing a wall 1 meter from you, it's very accurate and deadly.
I miss my Mak as I had scored one back in the 90s when Soviet firearms were cheaper than dirt and for someone of my height, build and hand size, the Mak was the perfect backup boot gun.
Funny how russia had a intermediate caliber "submachine gun" that didnt really take off in that role but now we are seeing a shift to very short assault rifles in intermediate calibers that are smg-like, its almost like the AK was ahead of its time as an SMG.
Look forward to the video about the Hungarian PA-63 - especially because it was the first pistol I carried concealed, and I tested tons of 9x18 and 9x17 through it.
i have a polish i.o import Makarov and i was lets say shocked at how heavy the trigger pull was and even more shocked at the light trigger pull for every shot afterwards
Adopting a weird proprietary caliber worked out pretty well for them with their railroad tracks for what it's worth
It's impressive how the Makarov endured as the standard sidearm for decades. As a gun enthusiast, I appreciate the insight into its mechanical lineage from the Walther PP family. Great video!
So their thought was to design and issue a sidearm that is light, easy to carry, and not too powerful. Meanwhile, the US continued to issue the M1911A1 for another forty years, which is why I first shot it in tanker basic training in 1986. Great video Ian! Those Makarovs have quite a nice finish for Soviet firearms.
They both have their own style and that the style each army chose comes from the history of the two sides and the view of themselves that they wish to project.
Ian, You left off an important aspect of the development of the 9x18 Makarov cartridge. For cost considerations, the Soviets wanted to manufacture a blowback pistol. They wanted the most powerful cartridge that could be chambered in a blowback pistol. Regular 9mm Luger was too powerful for a blowback design, so they simply developed a less powerful cartridge that was based on the 9mm Luger. The case head of the 9mm Luger and 9x18 Makarov cartridges are the same. Keep in mind that it's the taper of the 9mm Luger cartridge that allows the bullet to be 9.0mm in diameter. The blowback design of the pistol necessitated a non-tapered straight walled cartridge. By carrying the case wall forward and not tapering it you end up with a 9.2mm bullet. BTW, you can literally make 9x18 Makarov cases out of 9mm Luger cases. You simply have to size, trim the cases to the shorter 18mm length, and then bell the cases enough to accept the larger diameter 9x18 Makarov bullets. The resulting cartridge will have a substantial "coke bottle" look but the case will fire form just fine and will look like a regular 9x18 Makarov case after that.
I love my PM. One of my favorite all time handguns. The sites being hard to see and non-adjustable, is about the only negative I have for it. Fantastic shooters, easy to carry, extremely reliable, a gun you can use and count on.
I will add that Makarov did not just win the competition, there were 11 designers with their pistols at this competition, and very famous designers. Also, the difference between the Makarov pistol is the design that completely allows you to disassemble the gun in just two minutes, and also quickly assemble it. This means a complete disassembly. It takes a very long time to disassemble a gun from Western countries. Also, the Makarov pistol has a very high reliability. I had a Luger, a Browning, a Vollmer, etc. But if you want to carry a gun in your pocket and be sure that the gun will always fire, when you need to choose a Makarov pistol.
Makarov was first pistol I shoot and after all those years and after using it few times more I need to say that... its really good pistol.
If you keep it in good condition its great little handgun, and Im not afraid to say that, if not a bit hard to get ammo(where I live at least), it give you better fun than some modern pistols in similar size. It remind me a bit of old hi-power that is heavy, not that great for carry, but if you just want to have fun on a range... grab that old bloke instead of any new fancy polimer stuff. Trust me, old guns like Makarov or that hi-power are just... fun. They are annoying sometimes, they are heavy, they will bite you(sometimes literally...) but its just pure joy to shoot.
kinda like old cars, if you use every day depending on how much money you dumped into fixing everything and fine tuning, you will be annoyed by things just not working as properly or breaking in your hands, but to drive from time to time it is really good and fun.
That gun is in a Great condition! Definitely a collector's item!
I love these pistols. This pistol is the size that i like most. I have checkered, done trigger jobs, and modded a few over the years and find that the amount of steel in them makes it easy to smooth, round over, cut, and checker with no worries of weakening the frame or slide. Ive never had a single reliability issue or accuracy problem though unlike many. In fact, ive seen a lot of people limp wrist these and have cycling problems.
Yup, I was limp wristing my Izmash a lot when I first got it.
Great video, very informative. I know the Makarov is outdated by today's standards and unfortunately way too expensive now but I bought one in the 1980's ,I believe and carry it. Yes it's heavy but it is very safe to carry and concealment is reasonably easy.
As someone who spent 5 years as an officer in UK Territorial infantry I think I fired a pistol twice, so much in common with your Russian conscripts, and I wouldn't guarantee a hit past ten feet never mind ten yards!
Love the Makarov pistols thank you for this informative and in depth analysis of this cold war classic Ian! Looking forward to more videos on the different variants 👍
It's fascinating how a lot of the elements to the Makarov that make it unglamourous compared to 'sexier' guns, it not really being a 'combat' pistol, it being cranked out unchanged by the millions or it just being so dang simple could depending on your point of view be exactly what makes it interesting.
I've always loved the Makarov. It's a solid gun.