This was an excellent discussion. Thank you for offering this perspective on the impact of free trade agreements on America's working class and the Democratic party.
Saying that Trump could “fix things” because he’s a business man is kind of crazy considering that the “business men” are the ones who moved the job that he had for over 15 years to Mexico! That’s kind of jarring to hear to be honest!
yes, but you heard Trumps speeches on the campaign trail against Clinton talking to Americans about how damaging it was. That meant a lot to people who had suffered through Nafta.
And another irony is that Trump isn't an actual business man. Like Warren Buffett said, "He's a successful promoter but it was bankruptcy every time he ran things from the operations side." As discussed in the recent book "Lucky Loser," the Apprentice invented his successful billionaire image by creating fake Trump offices since the real ones were in disrepair. His "you're fired" decisions were intentionally random because being unpredictable hiked ratings. The show would then edit the episodes to make it look like those contestants had failed. As Politico reported, 50% of Americans believe he is self-made. When they're told otherwise a significant number including GOP voters changed their minds.
None of these Trump voters support Bernie Sanders who always opposed NAFTA, and fought for minimum wage and health care for all. which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for the policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
You're trusting the word of a billionaire on a campaign trail. People get rich in business only one way, and it's not by caring about their country. Their country is green, and it smells like shit.
Now you see why Democrats and liberal media vilify third parties. If people actually vote their beliefs, convictions, American actually be the greatest country in the world. But instead we listen to the political parties that are funded by Wall Street who tells a vote for third-party is a vote for the other person
Perot appeared to be a good option, but I was very skeptical that he would change the system to benefit the working class. He made the majority of his money through government contracts. The system personally benefited him. It’s unlikely that he would change that. And he was a little wacky.
I was a Union hard hat for 10 years. My Forman was a small rancher and backhoe operator. I had great respect for his mantra about evaluating a companies worth: “never cheat the working man,”. My company never did. Trump declared bankruptcy 6 times resulting in great profits (his tax losses absorbed by his partners were used by him) and effectively cheated working men. He has no honor to men and women who sell their labor for food and the lives of those they love..
Wow pathetic you use your working class experience to provide cover for the Democratic party that co-signed this deal with republicans. You're still accepting the false choice between these two parties owned by wall street. You can't break out of this simple binary false choice between two broken parties
Okay this is 4th grade thinking just because Trump is bad doesn't make Democrats good. This is why things are getting continuously worse because of this sort of thinking.
What a desperate pivot to Donald Trump. Yes we know Donald Trump is a scumbag that doesn't make Democrats the heroes. You know Donald Trump wasn't president when NAFTA was pushed through right? Why the f*** are you talking about Trump? When this is a bipartisan problem
Most of the electronics, textile, clothing, furniture, and so forth we purchase daily are made in China, Vietnam, etc. It may have started with NAFTA, but I wish there was more discussion about the free trade agreements with Asia, which actually has killed industry in the US.
No, it didn't. Asia could always undercut the US. You can't compete with countries with currencies so devalued--countries where the working class was willing to work long hours for near zero pay. In any case, the added value for the products was pocketed almost entirely by US and Western-aligned companies. That was when the working class of these countries should have asked for wealth redistribution. Businesspeople made billions for the work of taking luxurious trips to Asia, making easy deals and firing US workers. But the US thinks being screwed is something the worker has to take responsibility for. There could be no billionaires, no companies, no financial success without workers. There can be workers, companies and financial success without billionaires.
Living through the time, it killed many manufacturing industries around the world. Global economic disaster for many western countries but there was real danger of countries being impacted even further as soon as one country moved to cheaper labour in Asia etc. Cost of capitalism.
100% agreed. NAFTA was a mere prelude to the undoing of the U.S. economy and the middle class after China joined the WTO under Clinton. Compelling coverage by NYT but without bringing China into the conversation, one has to wonder about the story’s real angle.
Reagan got elected as the Screen Actors Guild president during the height of the McCarthy red scare era -- they felt like they needed a right-wing guy to get the House un-American Activities Committee off their back -- so he was put in as one of the strongest anti-Communist guys who would be willing to throw any left-wing actor under the bus -- which he did.
Briefly, as head of the Screen Actors' Guild. But he also enthusiastically co-operated with HUAC. He'd sell anyone out if he saw personal advancement in it.
@andrewklang809 And yet Reagan is to the left of where his party is today. And speaking of unions and deregulation, at 39:01 it's noted that the renegotiated NAFTA ie the USMCA "made modest improvements" to working conditions in Mexico to level the playing field with American living standards, and yet did not stop job losses. It should be noted that according to a 2022 Harvard study titled "Mexican Labor Movements and the USMCA," the lack of protections for unions in Mexico will likely prevent any meaningful improvements. Unions have no impact without political power, and in Mexico they have no political power. In fact Mexico ranks near the bottom of the press freedom index. So, it would be misleading to say jobs flowed to Mexico despite improvements there when the likelihood of meaningful improvements is low.
It’s pretty amazing to do this story and talk about the democrat shifting back toward a working class politics, and not mention the Bernie 2016/2020 campaigns. Both in how they were a key force in challenging these ideas from the left, and how the democrats worked to undermine these campaigns and assert a centrist candidate.
How is it possible that the host of this show has NEVER considered that the Democrats' abandonment of the working class led to an opening for Republicans in general and Trump in particular?? It's possibly the single most critical shift in the US political landscape in the past 50 years. It's staggering that this is news to this guy. It'd be like a literature professor who'd never heard of Shakespeare.
None of these Trump voters support Bernie Sanders who always opposed NAFTA, and fought for minimum wage and health care for all. which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for the policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
@tommcfadden5232 alot of the Liberal Establishment figures in politics and the media have been living in a bubble for the past 30 years tbh. They don't even talk to the Working Poor among the Democrat cities they reside in unfortunately.
@@chazcmeekins83 Exactly. While I don't necessarily agree with Bernie Sanders and I _definitely_ don't agree with Trump, I think they delivered a much-needed wake-up call to the Democratic party. Biden, I think, did a good job heeding that call, but there's a lot more to be done.
My vague recollection is that NAFTA was intended as a counter to companies offshoring even further away, out of North America entirely. If a company went to Mexico or Canada, then some worker relocation would be possible. Whereas jobs that go to another continent would have far less relocation. My job (not me) in 2002 was “relocated” to employ four workers on another continent. That job was high tech, knowledge worker. My view is that business executives made the changes, while politicians either applied bandaids or applied lipstick on the swine.
Today the politicians are too indebted to campaign contributions from those CEOs to effect proper governance. Campaign finance reform needs to come first to effect proper change.
Truly sad that people have been let down so hard that they'll vote for Dump as a middle finger to the establishment if they vote at all. Even sadder that most politicians haven't figured this out yet.
What's not covered here is the 100's of thousands of jobs that were created by NAFTA in the USA; they got one guy who lost his job, boohoo, go F himself! There are 100's of thousands who are employed today because of the increased exports from NAFTA. There is always two sides to every story, and NAFTA was a tiny little trade deal, you can't blame it for the de-industrialization of the American Mid-West, for peats sake, what a stupid interview with zero research and zero facts, just a story from some guy who lost his job to changing times.(and to China, NOT NAFTA!)
The most criminal POTUS and the richest man in the universe are not going to fix anything for the common man, much less for the women. How blind are these sheep... 🍊🚀🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑 Maga -a -a -a -a
@@tidbit1877 And yet the deindustrialization is now being blamed for our inability to produce military equipment. We don't have the industry to mass produce war necessities anymore, and that is a problem. It was quite difficult finding artillery shells for Ukraine, since few western countries even have the factories to produce them. This is going to be a huge problem and a national security issue especially if war is on the horizon.
It's very sad to listen to this man who was actively screwed by Democrats not standing up to republican policy saying "everyone sucks but at least trump is a gangster..." sigh. This is why Bernie wants to educate everyone.
Don't think too much of it. At the time, he was trying to make sense of his circumstances. If you see the big picture, he is a good working man who just wants to have better opportunities. Don't let one sentence of his throw away all the other information he gave us.
The Daily, explain what a more isolated economic system in the United States would look like, both the upsides and downsides. That is the counterpoint needed to provide more context on free trade agreements.
None of Trump voters support Bernie Sanders.. which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
Thank you for this great explanation of how increased trade affected some workers and how politicians responded. There's more to support for Trump than his nastiness, bigotry, and apparent contempt for American values.
When discussing Trump's position on these trade agreements which should be mentioned that he did actually block the trans-pacific partnership. One of the few instances of him following through on one of his campaign pledges. Something that Bernie Sanders actually applauded which was in line with his opinion on NAFTA going back to the 90s.
There are a lot of young people without a collage education who have been left behind. I hope the Harris administration does something to truly help, but I don't think they even know it is a problem.
American consumers have paid to rebuild the same factory first in the nafta-zone, next in Mexico and a third time in China. Each factory’s tech. Advance makes the last factory obsolete.
If you’ve got a high school kid. Tell them to stay in school and go as far as they can. Choosing to drop out is to choose to become someone else’s tool😢
Would be interesting to see a timeline visualization of the number of manufacturing businesses in industries, such as cars, that existed before the NAFTA and left other locations after NAFTA overtime and correlate that with job loss.
Wow! You guys just made me understand why people hated Hillary Clinton and agreed with Trump’s economics. If I’d heard this podcast in 2016, I might have switched my vote.
None of these Trump voters support Bernie Sanders who always opposed NAFTA, and fought for minimum wage and health care for all. which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for the policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
Im 35 from NY- when I was 22 I traveled to China with my college to answer the question for myself “Why is everything made in China?” Nothing I have ever learned was more important of a piece of the puzzle than this policy that was implemented when I was like, 5. Wow. I’ve also always been a never Trumper, but this specific episode explains so much as to why others still see him as the answer.
Trade creates prosperity. But this show helped me see how that's not obvious to people affected by it, and that leads to support someone who offers facile answers. It helped me understand there's more to Trump than just his nastiness.
@@CharlesGervasi Did you miss the part where that "prosperity" when into the pockets of a select few...? Stop regurgitating dogshit neoliberal talking points 😂Unmitigated free trade is always a bad deal for working people.
@@hklinker Less exports, for sure. Less service sector jobs, for sure. Less highly skilled, highly paying jobs, for sure. Those benefits to the U.S. economy, are the results of the job losses because of NAFTA. Those people got left out, for sure. But, some of them would call public efforts to fairly compensate them, for their losses, communism, or socialism. You can't go back to a 1960's world of stamping out lock parts on a punch press, or screwing on lugnuts... and expect other Americans... the majority of Americans... to be able to buy, or want, the products you produce.
At the time I took it that the primary reason for NAFTA was really because the neither the Dem Technocrats nor GOP Greedheads could ignore the way the economy overall was heading. So many more of us had some college than ever before, even degrees and post-graduate degrees, we had moved from a manufacturing Economy into a Financial Economy, and we had a burgeoning New Tech Economy waiting in the wings. Change had to come and this was the moment in which it had to be faced. It was unstoppable and the number of Production workers was as low as it was going to get before the big shift was going to happen. It's an impossible situation to explain to someone whose life is going to be uprooted. Best you can do is point out that Losing a job is really just Changing a job. But then whole lifestyles had been built around those jobs. Both parties agreed it had to happen, which is how the GOP-created strategy birthed it and how it was godfathered in by the new Dem Technocrats. As a result, to this day a lot of people feel disaffected and have a "they're all the same" bias. They got hurt, there's no good way to explain it and, as arrogant as it sounds, a large portion of people really wouldn't understand it. Moreso if it affects them and/or their town. IMHO this is, more than any other factor, what has lead us to the current scourge of extremist populism. A lot of people get hurt in any economic change and it's a damn shame...war is hell. And there's more coming. Because there's a lot of bubbles ready to burst now. Harris or Trump, either way, you're not going to want to be held responsible for what's coming up in the next few years. Hopefully the international parts of our overall economy will save us or forestall disaster. Buckle up!
I’m no economist, but who’s going to be able to afford products that cost $19 per worker per hour more to produce? People will buy the cheap imports. If you prohibit the imports, or tariff them to the point that the local product is competitive, then all you’ll have is expensive products to choose from. Assuming automation doesn’t come along first.
The government should facilitate education and technology in rural counties and areas impacted by manufacturing. Build colleges, incentivize professors, incentivize tech companies to take advantage of what I would suspect is probably significantly cheaper land/real estate in those areas.
It may be that economic globalization was already underway with the fall of the Berlin Wall bringing eastern Europe and Russia and the entry of China into the global economy. Both events presented profound competitive challenges and opportunities for the US economy. These developments increased the global economic pie, but did US leaders (politicians, company executives and union leaders) have a strategy to exploit the opportunities or mitigate the challenges? It would be interesting to compare the impact of globalization (NAFTA and other free trade deals) on other industrialized countries such as Canada, the UK, France and Germany that were in relatively the same position. Did the working class in these countries suffer as much, or did they have economic strategies and other policies to mitigate negative consequences of factory relocations? The North American economy is facing another competitive challenge in the transition to a "green" economy (EVs, solar panels, wind turbines and semiconductors). Does anyone believe that tariffs can revive North American competitiveness? At best, it may force foreign companies to build assembly plants to access tariff restricted markets, like Japanese auto manufacturers did in North America and Europe.
'it outsourced good paying jobs'. To provide cheaper products of the same quality, right? I can never stop laughing when Americans are complaining about inflation, while at the same time blabbing about tariffs on Chinese products. Which occupy about 80% of the shelves at Walmart, right?
The quality of the cheaper products is debatable. But yes. Americans never really got over the idea of someone else doing the free and then cheap labor and being able to reap the benefits. We are experiencing a rude awakening. You can't have good paying jobs with high wages and benefits and compete with countries that are fine with slave labor.
@@Ember-Rayne Mexico has slave labor? That's new to me. Cheaper, yes. If Western countries oppose to import goods, like t-shirts, jeans and sneakers, prove it first, and then don't import those goods. Tariffs are silly.
Listen, Mister! Your vote is one of your most valuable assets. You don't have to be in love. Democrats sold out and stopped talking about jobs for working classes because the bankers and financial class (people like Robert Rubin) didn't like it. So Bill changed his tune for them. In America, working class is anyone who relies on a paycheck -- across the country, many hospital systems now outsource radiology reports, so it's not just the manufacturing industry. We have an opportunity to turn the tide back to the majority. The countries we outsource the most sensitive products to manufacture may not be our friends or partners for much longer. The factories of the century 21 can be made smart so they can convert as needed. It's how we save ourselves.
NAFTA, and Globalization are the future and they are inevitable, and they are the best thing for the working class, period. There is only one caveat to that and it's the disparate rates for labour in other countries; which is why the only two tariffs that should ever be levied are, one for labour, and one for carbon. Lets deal with the labour one first, if it takes $4000 worth of labour to make a car in the USA and only $1000 in China, then the car should face an import tariff of $3000, plus 10-20% on top of that as an actual penalty for trying to use cheap labour. The Carbon tariff is similar in that each country in the world has an energy mix and we can easily calculate how much carbon they are producing per kilowatt and then compare that to the energy mix in America. Countries with higher carbon levels would face import tariffs equal to the amount of carbon tax that would have applied to the item if it was built in America, and then add 10-20% penalty for attempting to circumvent the carbon tax. These are the only two legitimate tariffs, maybe in the future ones will be added like a human rights tariff, but for now I think it's only fair to balance the labour cost difference and account for the environmental damage caused by the generation of the energy to make each product.
Just a side note, for those who hate NAFTA, the jobs you lost to Mexico spent only a few years there before going straight to China where wages were like 10 cents an hour, so don't blame NAFTA alone, it was the globalization between countries with wildly different economies and labour rates that hurt, but the globalization with Japan and South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, Canada and Europe; this has been a real boon for all the western economies and has not only generated tens of millions of jobs in America and tens of millions more around the world, but has also led to cheaper prices for all the consumers in all the western countries, more competition, and improved quality of goods. So it's not that globalization is either good or bad, it's that it depends on how it's structured, if there had been a labour tariff then we wouldn't have seen the job flight that we ended up with.
It's a trip how he'll vote for Trump yet, ignore the repeated failures of him being a "business man". In the private sector Trump would be fired so many times! To generalize things as if this country is a business is why he WOULDN'T be a good POTUS. And his term created nothing. And that's not opinion!
It's not NAFTAs fault the US is moving away from manufacturing, it's time. Countries develop over time and now the US is too developed to be a manufacturing country. On the other side Mexico and China have developed to the point that they're where America was 20+ years ago in terms of development. BTW manufacturing has gone up under Biden vs lost 200k under Trump. Manufacturing still has a role, but there's a reason the population of Detroit is decreasing, in 25 years all manufacturing will be done by robots, delaying the inevitable only hurts you in the future. The government's role is to mitigate the inequality cause by this shift not pretend it's not happening because time only moves in one direction.
trump doesn’t care about policy, he repeats dumb talking points to sound like to understands the world, so he can sound like a president. True since before 2015
This is just bad journalism! The nafta deal was defensive to prevent all work from going to Asia! At least NAFTA allowed nearshoring of higher value add manufacturing that could then be completed at maquiladoras!!! This report totally misses the point!
I have a dairy farmer NAFTA was a fantastic deal China especially Mexico are our largest customers. You need to be globally competitive and most of those plants where not competitive and people would be better off doing something else where they have higher productivity. Most blue collar jobs are actually lower productivity per hour now than they where pre the large increase in regulation in the 60/70s productivity has only significantly increased for worker hour in technology, finance, mining mostly fracking and commercial agriculture. It has also increased in or automated factories but most of those gains go to the few employees left there and the owners of the company. The college degree doesn't really have anything to do with it That's just a thing that is quite correlated to people that tend to work in higher productivity industries There are plenty people that have lots of college degrees in very little money working in a service industry or are under employed There are also millions of small business owners like me that have no college degree who have high incomes and higher net worth.
It's interesting to read a different and positive experience of NAFTA. I still think the negative impacts are real and need to be addressed. Economic inequality and mistrust of government (J6 may have been one result) are real.
Yes they do but they are best addressed by increasing productivity and becoming more competitive not tariffs or increasing pay for the same low productivity. The market signals must reach the market participants in order to work otherwise it's just a slow ride to misery. The best example of this is to look at the economic history of Argentina versus New Zealand. New Zealand is probably the most economically free market in the world after Singapore and they have done extremely well since they totally liberalize their markets and found their niches they could compete on the global marketplace in in Argentina has been full Bernie Sanders unions and high taxes and regulations for more than 75 years every single year they get poorer and poorer. Populism doesn't work long term....@@lisabluecurls
After listening to this podcast, and hearing what that otherwise decent fellow, Chancy, had to say, I watched 'The Sixth.' I feel nothing but despair for America. Chancy thinks Harris is corrupt and he'd vote for Trump because he's a good businessman. Good lord, I wish he would watch this film and hear what photographer Mel Cole, wearing a t-shirt that said "Educated Black Man," experienced on J6. We clearly need a better educational system and improved distribution of factual information about government, trade, politics, etc. Our political leaders have let us down and are responsible for this descent into moral and political division and economic inequality and all of its impacts. This discussion of NAFTA demonstrates that.
Loss of manufacturing jobs is caused by increased efficiency. It just doesn't take everybody's work to make all the manufactured goods everyone wants. International trade has nothing to do with it. Putting a trade embargo on the US is a really crummy idea.
Why are you magats such snowflakes, mortally offended by somebody who speaks intelligently? Read more than one book and you can talk reel good too bro.
This was an excellent discussion. Thank you for offering this perspective on the impact of free trade agreements on America's working class and the Democratic party.
Saying that Trump could “fix things” because he’s a business man is kind of crazy considering that the “business men” are the ones who moved the job that he had for over 15 years to Mexico! That’s kind of jarring to hear to be honest!
But Trump is gansgta and Kamala is simply a crook!
yes, but you heard Trumps speeches on the campaign trail against Clinton talking to Americans about how damaging it was. That meant a lot to people who had suffered through Nafta.
@@johnmcneil9164Lip service
Bill Clinton and Al Gore were the business men who passed NAFTA
And another irony is that Trump isn't an actual business man. Like Warren Buffett said, "He's a successful promoter but it was bankruptcy every time he ran things from the operations side." As discussed in the recent book "Lucky Loser," the Apprentice invented his successful billionaire image by creating fake Trump offices since the real ones were in disrepair. His "you're fired" decisions were intentionally random because being unpredictable hiked ratings. The show would then edit the episodes to make it look like those contestants had failed. As Politico reported, 50% of Americans believe he is self-made. When they're told otherwise a significant number including GOP voters changed their minds.
A beautiful portrayal of the working class that I think is something everyone in this country needs to hear
None of these Trump voters support Bernie Sanders who always opposed NAFTA, and fought for minimum wage and health care for all.
which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for the policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
I was 9 in 92, I remember the election and have been a lifelong Democrat. Now I kinda wish Perot had been President.
You're trusting the word of a billionaire on a campaign trail. People get rich in business only one way, and it's not by caring about their country. Their country is green, and it smells like shit.
Now you see why Democrats and liberal media vilify third parties. If people actually vote their beliefs, convictions, American actually be the greatest country in the world. But instead we listen to the political parties that are funded by Wall Street who tells a vote for third-party is a vote for the other person
Perot appeared to be a good option, but I was very skeptical that he would change the system to benefit the working class. He made the majority of his money through government contracts. The system personally benefited him. It’s unlikely that he would change that. And he was a little wacky.
@@kenfletcher8855 Agreed
If ur interested there's a 3 part look at the 3rd party called Reform by channel Secret Base
I was a Union hard hat for 10 years. My Forman was a small rancher and backhoe operator. I had great respect for his mantra about evaluating a companies worth: “never cheat the working man,”. My company never did. Trump declared bankruptcy 6 times resulting in great profits (his tax losses absorbed by his partners were used by him) and effectively cheated working men. He has no honor to men and women who sell their labor for food and the lives of those they love..
I agree but why do we have to rely on the kindness of Trump or other business leaders to do the right thing?
@@hamburgerjoe4401 Nobody is arguing that...?
Wow pathetic you use your working class experience to provide cover for the Democratic party that co-signed this deal with republicans. You're still accepting the false choice between these two parties owned by wall street. You can't break out of this simple binary false choice between two broken parties
Okay this is 4th grade thinking just because Trump is bad doesn't make Democrats good. This is why things are getting continuously worse because of this sort of thinking.
What a desperate pivot to Donald Trump. Yes we know Donald Trump is a scumbag that doesn't make Democrats the heroes.
You know Donald Trump wasn't president when NAFTA was pushed through right? Why the f*** are you talking about Trump? When this is a bipartisan problem
Most of the electronics, textile, clothing, furniture, and so forth we purchase daily are made in China, Vietnam, etc. It may have started with NAFTA, but I wish there was more discussion about the free trade agreements with Asia, which actually has killed industry in the US.
No, it didn't. Asia could always undercut the US. You can't compete with countries with currencies so devalued--countries where the working class was willing to work long hours for near zero pay. In any case, the added value for the products was pocketed almost entirely by US and Western-aligned companies. That was when the working class of these countries should have asked for wealth redistribution. Businesspeople made billions for the work of taking luxurious trips to Asia, making easy deals and firing US workers.
But the US thinks being screwed is something the worker has to take responsibility for. There could be no billionaires, no companies, no financial success without workers. There can be workers, companies and financial success without billionaires.
Living through the time, it killed many manufacturing industries around the world. Global economic disaster for many western countries but there was real danger of countries being impacted even further as soon as one country moved to cheaper labour in Asia etc. Cost of capitalism.
@@DrVictorVasconcelosthat’s when the US should have strategically used tariffs.
100% agreed. NAFTA was a mere prelude to the undoing of the U.S. economy and the middle class after China joined the WTO under Clinton. Compelling coverage by NYT but without bringing China into the conversation, one has to wonder about the story’s real angle.
NAFTA?? Reaganomics and his union busting, deregulations empowering corporations. Didn’t Reagan have a career as union rep?
Reagan got elected as the Screen Actors Guild president during the height of the McCarthy red scare era -- they felt like they needed a right-wing guy to get the House un-American Activities Committee off their back -- so he was put in as one of the strongest anti-Communist guys who would be willing to throw any left-wing actor under the bus -- which he did.
Briefly, as head of the Screen Actors' Guild. But he also enthusiastically co-operated with HUAC. He'd sell anyone out if he saw personal advancement in it.
These things always forget how Union Labor turned its back on Mondale and Ferraro in 84. Union Labor did it to themselves.
@andrewklang809 And yet Reagan is to the left of where his party is today.
And speaking of unions and deregulation, at 39:01 it's noted that the renegotiated NAFTA ie the USMCA "made modest improvements" to working conditions in Mexico to level the playing field with American living standards, and yet did not stop job losses.
It should be noted that according to a 2022 Harvard study titled "Mexican Labor Movements and the USMCA," the lack of protections for unions in Mexico will likely prevent any meaningful improvements. Unions have no impact without political power, and in Mexico they have no political power. In fact Mexico ranks near the bottom of the press freedom index. So, it would be misleading to say jobs flowed to Mexico despite improvements there when the likelihood of meaningful improvements is low.
US Right to Work states screwed unionized Canadian workers. It's not NAFTA, screwing workers, it always Republicans.
It’s pretty amazing to do this story and talk about the democrat shifting back toward a working class politics, and not mention the Bernie 2016/2020 campaigns. Both in how they were a key force in challenging these ideas from the left, and how the democrats worked to undermine these campaigns and assert a centrist candidate.
The Bernie blackout is real.
How is it possible that the host of this show has NEVER considered that the Democrats' abandonment of the working class led to an opening for Republicans in general and Trump in particular?? It's possibly the single most critical shift in the US political landscape in the past 50 years. It's staggering that this is news to this guy. It'd be like a literature professor who'd never heard of Shakespeare.
Exactly. Disingenuous? Incompetent? Dishonest?
None of these Trump voters support Bernie Sanders who always opposed NAFTA, and fought for minimum wage and health care for all.
which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for the policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
Isn’t that what he is saying? Only the Dems could have passed NAFTA and they betrayed their voters in doing so.
@tommcfadden5232 alot of the Liberal Establishment figures in politics and the media have been living in a bubble for the past 30 years tbh. They don't even talk to the Working Poor among the Democrat cities they reside in unfortunately.
@@chazcmeekins83 Exactly. While I don't necessarily agree with Bernie Sanders and I _definitely_ don't agree with Trump, I think they delivered a much-needed wake-up call to the Democratic party. Biden, I think, did a good job heeding that call, but there's a lot more to be done.
My vague recollection is that NAFTA was intended as a counter to companies offshoring even further away, out of North America entirely. If a company went to Mexico or Canada, then some worker relocation would be possible. Whereas jobs that go to another continent would have far less relocation.
My job (not me) in 2002 was “relocated” to employ four workers on another continent. That job was high tech, knowledge worker. My view is that business executives made the changes, while politicians either applied bandaids or applied lipstick on the swine.
Thank you for this insight
Today the politicians are too indebted to campaign contributions from those CEOs to effect proper governance. Campaign finance reform needs to come first to effect proper change.
Truly sad that people have been let down so hard that they'll vote for Dump as a middle finger to the establishment if they vote at all. Even sadder that most politicians haven't figured this out yet.
Truly sad that people are still trying to pretend that Trump is the problem and coming out with b/s like that
What's not covered here is the 100's of thousands of jobs that were created by NAFTA in the USA; they got one guy who lost his job, boohoo, go F himself! There are 100's of thousands who are employed today because of the increased exports from NAFTA. There is always two sides to every story, and NAFTA was a tiny little trade deal, you can't blame it for the de-industrialization of the American Mid-West, for peats sake, what a stupid interview with zero research and zero facts, just a story from some guy who lost his job to changing times.(and to China, NOT NAFTA!)
@@tidbit1877 So their manufacturing job was replaced with a job at McDonalds or Walmart. You're an idiot.
The most criminal POTUS
and the richest man in the universe
are not going to fix anything
for the common man,
much less for the women.
How blind are these sheep...
🍊🚀🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
Maga -a -a -a -a
@@tidbit1877 And yet the deindustrialization is now being blamed for our inability to produce military equipment. We don't have the industry to mass produce war necessities anymore, and that is a problem. It was quite difficult finding artillery shells for Ukraine, since few western countries even have the factories to produce them.
This is going to be a huge problem and a national security issue especially if war is on the horizon.
It's very sad to listen to this man who was actively screwed by Democrats not standing up to republican policy saying "everyone sucks but at least trump is a gangster..." sigh. This is why Bernie wants to educate everyone.
Don't think too much of it. At the time, he was trying to make sense of his circumstances. If you see the big picture, he is a good working man who just wants to have better opportunities. Don't let one sentence of his throw away all the other information he gave us.
I appreciate this story
Economy wasn't booming here in Milwaukee & we had it a lot better than many other cities. People with college degrees were also hurt here.
17:30
The Daily, explain what a more isolated economic system in the United States would look like, both the upsides and downsides. That is the counterpoint needed to provide more context on free trade agreements.
None of Trump voters support Bernie Sanders.. which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
Thank you for this great explanation of how increased trade affected some workers and how politicians responded. There's more to support for Trump than his nastiness, bigotry, and apparent contempt for American values.
Such Brilliant reporting!
When discussing Trump's position on these trade agreements which should be mentioned that he did actually block the trans-pacific partnership. One of the few instances of him following through on one of his campaign pledges. Something that Bernie Sanders actually applauded which was in line with his opinion on NAFTA going back to the 90s.
NAFTA took jewelry manufacturing jobs away from the S.E. New England area. Providence area lost all its big manufacturing to Mexico and China.
Ah yes, China, a famous signatory of NAFTA.
@@henkrpe3249 There were a different set of deals with China, China got the most favored nation trading status.
@@henkrpe3249 Watch the video, trade deals were soon cut with China right after NAFTA.
There are a lot of young people without a collage education who have been left behind. I hope the Harris administration does something to truly help, but I don't think they even know it is a problem.
And people with a college education still not making a salary enough to live comfortably
@@chioj36 The problem with too many college educated people is elite overproduction, which is a huge problem in the modern economy.
American consumers have paid to rebuild the same factory first in the nafta-zone, next in Mexico and a third time in China.
Each factory’s tech. Advance makes the last factory obsolete.
I thought Russia was the problem! You guys said this was all about Russia Russia Russia. How could you say something about NAFTA?
If you’ve got a high school kid. Tell them to stay in school and go as far as they can. Choosing to drop out is to choose to become someone else’s tool😢
Would be interesting to see a timeline visualization of the number of manufacturing businesses in industries, such as cars, that existed before the NAFTA and left other locations after NAFTA overtime and correlate that with job loss.
Wow! You guys just made me understand why people hated Hillary Clinton and agreed with Trump’s economics. If I’d heard this podcast in 2016, I might have switched my vote.
None of these Trump voters support Bernie Sanders who always opposed NAFTA, and fought for minimum wage and health care for all.
which means only one thing i.e. none of these Trump-supporting people care for the policies. They are just racist hicks who want to play victim and blame someone else for all their problems.
Trump is not a business man. He played one for a reality show. He’s a con and he’s played everyone that thinks he’s smart.
Im 35 from NY- when I was 22 I traveled to China with my college to answer the question for myself “Why is everything made in China?”
Nothing I have ever learned was more important of a piece of the puzzle than this policy that was implemented when I was like, 5. Wow.
I’ve also always been a never Trumper, but this specific episode explains so much as to why others still see him as the answer.
Why are they finally taking that movement seriously at the last freaking second!??
As a cyclist, I ask where are we sourcing all of our frames and components from? Asia😢
You still have to ask, if we did not pass NAFTA, would it have hurt us in different ways? I think so.
Which ways?
Trade creates prosperity. But this show helped me see how that's not obvious to people affected by it, and that leads to support someone who offers facile answers. It helped me understand there's more to Trump than just his nastiness.
The advance of Globalization would have still happened, only slower.
@@CharlesGervasi Did you miss the part where that "prosperity" when into the pockets of a select few...? Stop regurgitating dogshit neoliberal talking points 😂Unmitigated free trade is always a bad deal for working people.
@@hklinker Less exports, for sure. Less service sector jobs, for sure. Less highly skilled, highly paying jobs, for sure. Those benefits to the U.S. economy, are the results of the job losses because of NAFTA. Those people got left out, for sure. But, some of them would call public efforts to fairly compensate them, for their losses, communism, or socialism. You can't go back to a 1960's world of stamping out lock parts on a punch press, or screwing on lugnuts... and expect other Americans... the majority of Americans... to be able to buy, or want, the products you produce.
At the time I took it that the primary reason for NAFTA was really because the neither the Dem Technocrats nor GOP Greedheads could ignore the way the economy overall was heading.
So many more of us had some college than ever before, even degrees and post-graduate degrees, we had moved from a manufacturing Economy into a Financial Economy, and we had a burgeoning New Tech Economy waiting in the wings. Change had to come and this was the moment in which it had to be faced. It was unstoppable and the number of Production workers was as low as it was going to get before the big shift was going to happen.
It's an impossible situation to explain to someone whose life is going to be uprooted. Best you can do is point out that Losing a job is really just Changing a job. But then whole lifestyles had been built around those jobs.
Both parties agreed it had to happen, which is how the GOP-created strategy birthed it and how it was godfathered in by the new Dem Technocrats.
As a result, to this day a lot of people feel disaffected and have a "they're all the same" bias. They got hurt, there's no good way to explain it and, as arrogant as it sounds, a large portion of people really wouldn't understand it. Moreso if it affects them and/or their town.
IMHO this is, more than any other factor, what has lead us to the current scourge of extremist populism. A lot of people get hurt in any economic change and it's a damn shame...war is hell.
And there's more coming. Because there's a lot of bubbles ready to burst now. Harris or Trump, either way, you're not going to want to be held responsible for what's coming up in the next few years. Hopefully the international parts of our overall economy will save us or forestall disaster. Buckle up!
There's definitely an AI bubble on the horizon, a lot of products and features have been overhyped
The House Dem vote was 156 (157 counting Bernie) AGAINST, 102 For; the House Rep vote was 132 FOR, 43 AGAINST.
30 of the 38 no votes in the Senate were Democrats.
I’m no economist, but who’s going to be able to afford products that cost $19 per worker per hour more to produce? People will buy the cheap imports. If you prohibit the imports, or tariff them to the point that the local product is competitive, then all you’ll have is expensive products to choose from.
Assuming automation doesn’t come along first.
Kamala says "It's great to be back in Michigan !" Why, they hate her ?
Why didn’t Trump get rid of nafta then?
Good point. Magats love his merch, all made in... Chyna.
"Line go up" vs "Living wage"
The government should facilitate education and technology in rural counties and areas impacted by manufacturing. Build colleges, incentivize professors, incentivize tech companies to take advantage of what I would suspect is probably significantly cheaper land/real estate in those areas.
It may be that economic globalization was already underway with the fall of the Berlin Wall bringing eastern Europe and Russia and the entry of China into the global economy. Both events presented profound competitive challenges and opportunities for the US economy. These developments increased the global economic pie, but did US leaders (politicians, company executives and union leaders) have a strategy to exploit the opportunities or mitigate the challenges?
It would be interesting to compare the impact of globalization (NAFTA and other free trade deals) on other industrialized countries such as Canada, the UK, France and Germany that were in relatively the same position. Did the working class in these countries suffer as much, or did they have economic strategies and other policies to mitigate negative consequences of factory relocations?
The North American economy is facing another competitive challenge in the transition to a "green" economy (EVs, solar panels, wind turbines and semiconductors). Does anyone believe that tariffs can revive North American competitiveness? At best, it may force foreign companies to build assembly plants to access tariff restricted markets, like Japanese auto manufacturers did in North America and Europe.
'it outsourced good paying jobs'. To provide cheaper products of the same quality, right? I can never stop laughing when Americans are complaining about inflation, while at the same time blabbing about tariffs on Chinese products. Which occupy about 80% of the shelves at Walmart, right?
The quality of the cheaper products is debatable.
But yes. Americans never really got over the idea of someone else doing the free and then cheap labor and being able to reap the benefits.
We are experiencing a rude awakening.
You can't have good paying jobs with high wages and benefits and compete with countries that are fine with slave labor.
@@Ember-Rayne Mexico has slave labor? That's new to me. Cheaper, yes. If Western countries oppose to import goods, like t-shirts, jeans and sneakers, prove it first, and then don't import those goods. Tariffs are silly.
I know it’s hard to do but what would the world look like if NAFTA didn’t pass?
NAFTA crushed the Mexican economy..
America's Not The industrialized at all We manufacture significantly more than we ever have objectively We just do it with far less labor. ..
Listen, Mister! Your vote is one of your most valuable assets. You don't have to be in love. Democrats sold out and stopped talking about jobs for working classes because the bankers and financial class (people like Robert Rubin) didn't like it. So Bill changed his tune for them. In America, working class is anyone who relies on a paycheck -- across the country, many hospital systems now outsource radiology reports, so it's not just the manufacturing industry. We have an opportunity to turn the tide back to the majority. The countries we outsource the most sensitive products to manufacture may not be our friends or partners for much longer. The factories of the century 21 can be made smart so they can convert as needed. It's how we save ourselves.
Trust the expert technocratic class….what could possibly go wrong?
Milton Friedman never made a correct decision in his long, evil life.
NAFTA, and Globalization are the future and they are inevitable, and they are the best thing for the working class, period. There is only one caveat to that and it's the disparate rates for labour in other countries; which is why the only two tariffs that should ever be levied are, one for labour, and one for carbon. Lets deal with the labour one first, if it takes $4000 worth of labour to make a car in the USA and only $1000 in China, then the car should face an import tariff of $3000, plus 10-20% on top of that as an actual penalty for trying to use cheap labour. The Carbon tariff is similar in that each country in the world has an energy mix and we can easily calculate how much carbon they are producing per kilowatt and then compare that to the energy mix in America. Countries with higher carbon levels would face import tariffs equal to the amount of carbon tax that would have applied to the item if it was built in America, and then add 10-20% penalty for attempting to circumvent the carbon tax. These are the only two legitimate tariffs, maybe in the future ones will be added like a human rights tariff, but for now I think it's only fair to balance the labour cost difference and account for the environmental damage caused by the generation of the energy to make each product.
Just a side note, for those who hate NAFTA, the jobs you lost to Mexico spent only a few years there before going straight to China where wages were like 10 cents an hour, so don't blame NAFTA alone, it was the globalization between countries with wildly different economies and labour rates that hurt, but the globalization with Japan and South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, Canada and Europe; this has been a real boon for all the western economies and has not only generated tens of millions of jobs in America and tens of millions more around the world, but has also led to cheaper prices for all the consumers in all the western countries, more competition, and improved quality of goods. So it's not that globalization is either good or bad, it's that it depends on how it's structured, if there had been a labour tariff then we wouldn't have seen the job flight that we ended up with.
Remember Trump's Foxconn? That sure worked out well now didn't it? In the meantime, Biden's Chips Act is bringing REAL results.
It's a trip how he'll vote for Trump yet, ignore the repeated failures of him being a "business man". In the private sector Trump would be fired so many times! To generalize things as if this country is a business is why he WOULDN'T be a good POTUS. And his term created nothing. And that's not opinion!
trust the smartest people - a degree does not indicate intelligence and many can be bought maybe not in cash but grants, projects etc.
Why just audio? Ugh!!!
It’s a podcast
Fix us already. Fix us!!!
Then vote Democratic.
It's not NAFTAs fault the US is moving away from manufacturing, it's time.
Countries develop over time and now the US is too developed to be a manufacturing country. On the other side Mexico and China have developed to the point that they're where America was 20+ years ago in terms of development.
BTW manufacturing has gone up under Biden vs lost 200k under Trump.
Manufacturing still has a role, but there's a reason the population of Detroit is decreasing, in 25 years all manufacturing will be done by robots, delaying the inevitable only hurts you in the future.
The government's role is to mitigate the inequality cause by this shift not pretend it's not happening because time only moves in one direction.
Sad and disgusting
You're not the only ones hurt. Everything changes
trump doesn’t care about policy, he repeats dumb talking points to sound like to understands the world,
so he can sound like a president. True since before 2015
This is just bad journalism! The nafta deal was defensive to prevent all work from going to Asia! At least NAFTA allowed nearshoring of higher value add manufacturing that could then be completed at maquiladoras!!!
This report totally misses the point!
Someone else had a similar take and now I need to deep dive NAFTA
UAE 🇦🇪kills sudanese
UAE 🇦🇪supports janjaweed militia
Talk about Sudan
I have a dairy farmer NAFTA was a fantastic deal China especially Mexico are our largest customers. You need to be globally competitive and most of those plants where not competitive and people would be better off doing something else where they have higher productivity. Most blue collar jobs are actually lower productivity per hour now than they where pre the large increase in regulation in the 60/70s productivity has only significantly increased for worker hour in technology, finance, mining mostly fracking and commercial agriculture. It has also increased in or automated factories but most of those gains go to the few employees left there and the owners of the company. The college degree doesn't really have anything to do with it That's just a thing that is quite correlated to people that tend to work in higher productivity industries There are plenty people that have lots of college degrees in very little money working in a service industry or are under employed There are also millions of small business owners like me that have no college degree who have high incomes and higher net worth.
It's interesting to read a different and positive experience of NAFTA. I still think the negative impacts are real and need to be addressed. Economic inequality and mistrust of government (J6 may have been one result) are real.
Yes they do but they are best addressed by increasing productivity and becoming more competitive not tariffs or increasing pay for the same low productivity. The market signals must reach the market participants in order to work otherwise it's just a slow ride to misery. The best example of this is to look at the economic history of Argentina versus New Zealand. New Zealand is probably the most economically free market in the world after Singapore and they have done extremely well since they totally liberalize their markets and found their niches they could compete on the global marketplace in in Argentina has been full Bernie Sanders unions and high taxes and regulations for more than 75 years every single year they get poorer and poorer. Populism doesn't work long term....@@lisabluecurls
488 👍💙💙💙
After listening to this podcast, and hearing what that otherwise decent fellow, Chancy, had to say, I watched 'The Sixth.' I feel nothing but despair for America. Chancy thinks Harris is corrupt and he'd vote for Trump because he's a good businessman. Good lord, I wish he would watch this film and hear what photographer Mel Cole, wearing a t-shirt that said "Educated Black Man," experienced on J6. We clearly need a better educational system and improved distribution of factual information about government, trade, politics, etc. Our political leaders have let us down and are responsible for this descent into moral and political division and economic inequality and all of its impacts. This discussion of NAFTA demonstrates that.
NAFTA was good
Loss of manufacturing jobs is caused by increased efficiency. It just doesn't take everybody's work to make all the manufactured goods everyone wants. International trade has nothing to do with it.
Putting a trade embargo on the US is a really crummy idea.
Union workers pay massive taxes
&
Don’t need social security
These things always forget how Union Labor turned its back on Mondale and Ferraro in 84. Union Labor did it to themselves.
The pretentiousness that oozes from this man's voice. What an absolute chore to listen to.
Oh thank god. The intro was the worst part.
Why are you magats such snowflakes, mortally offended by somebody who speaks intelligently? Read more than one book and you can talk reel good too bro.