Another counterpoint to the "it's all luck" argument: Despite the amount of variance/luck in Weiss, there are several players who consistently make top cut (or barely bubble out) at large tournaments. They can't all just be lucky over that many events across that many seasons.
Well, outside of the natural RNG that comes from being a card game, there is a difference in perception between games with stuff like triggers versus games that have certain decks heavy on RNG. With stuff like Desires, Lightsworn, Danger!, and Tear they all are parts where you "opt in" on the idea of being subject to RNG during the deckbuilding process. If you choose to run Desires you are accepting that sometimes you might banish every card important for your strategy. Yeah you could argue that it doesn't really count as opting in if it's something like Tear which was considered mandatory to play if you wanted to run a competitive deck for its format but that's an exception rather than a rule. Games that have trigger mechanics are systemwide so people who don't like the RNG will be turned off because they know there isn't a deck they can play to avoid it. Plus, it's way more in your face to see your cards thrown into a damage zone and rendered inaccessible or see a game-winning swing blocked because a trigger just HAPPENED to be on top of your opponent's deck. I don't really have a negative perception on trigger-heavy games in general since the way they blend with the game's design is really complicated, it has pros and cons. I get why it has the image of being less competitive.
Honestly, very fair points. The initial commenter made it more feel like their point was "high rng bad, equals weiss bad" so I mostly just wanted to establish how there is high rng in lots of games, but had lots of examples from personal experience. If the trigger mechanics of weiss just don't click with someone, that's perfectly fine with me. I like how you worded your points concisely though, it is greatly appreciated for the insight as well! :3
THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE is the TCGs saying WS is all RNG lose at deck out. WS you take damage and discard is deck. They are just salty. XD WS getting RNG screwed takes A TURN OR TWO TO FIX! That combo needed in stock? Play cards to get it out of there. In clock? DAMAGE YOURSELF or wait a turn.
I was just interested in trading cards and Hololive. I just stumbled into learning about WS this week. Learning that Hololive has an official TCG starting in September I'll wait and start with the official Hololive TCG first as it will probably be easier to learn ground floor with the rest of the newbies. If Hololive WS stays active I may also check it out eventually.
I would give weiss a change if I had a bigger local. weiss is dependant on your area. example I would have a buffet of choices if I was in Socal.I treat weiss as a fun side game that I get to play my favorite anime. I could bring my Kaguya love is war meta deck and still do well with the new decks. I dont have to get the new sets because I'm not interested in the IP.
that's very fair. like even for us, we're based out of north carolina and the closest regionals when they come around is in georgia, so it takes us a bit to get there XD
I'm more curious on the program you had as the footage when talking over, where can i get that? it looks really nice i have played very little weiss schwarz (all have been real life but in rare occasions) but i would also wonder if there ever would be any program/online clients to play weiss but this one looks so good with the automated turns and effect reveals
@@BaseDamage Thank you for putting the link for the simulator, tried it just out now and i like it very a lot ^^ ps. what you talked about in the video was also interesting to hear
Probably a bit too much of a tangent for this video, but yeah - it was initially underrated by tcg players because of the random aspect, turned out if your deck and skill were both good enough, you were almost unstoppable.
The absolute worst example of RNG in a tcg is Pokemon's prize card system, where important cards have a chance of just not being in your deck. Like if you're playing Arceus V and all four of the Arceus V end up in your prizes, you've basically ended up in an unwinnable state before the first card is drawn. The odds of that happening are slim, but it's a very real issue for 2-of techs that you include for specific matchups.
I contemplated mentioning that in the video but I already throw enough shade at ygo and mtg, I'm wary about getting the pokemon community upset at me XD But all jokes aside, you're completely right. I don't know as much about the pokemon tcg but that fact of the prize cards has always not set well with me. To each their own though lol
@@BaseDamage on the flip side, when cards are hit in life, they activate effects and/or battle the attacking digimon, so they are not entirely dead in life.
I'm not very familiar with this game, but it feels like the argument is extrapolating quite a lot from just personal preference. Like, mtg is pretty high variance, and that's by design! While it puts me off the more strictly competitive formats, the big growth area for years now is in a 100 card singleton group free-for-all format, so a lot of people do seem to enjoy it? And tho many other games have scaled back the random elements, many digital card games have reintroduced a lot more of it in other ways - hearthstone would involve a ttrpg-level amount of rules and dice-rolling if you wanted to play it on paper. To be clear, I'm not even well-informed enough to say whether they have a point about this game, but randomness itself is not only necessary at some level, but a lot of games aim to leverage more of it for entertainment value. The critique has to get into a lot more nuance to support such a dismissive conclusion, otherwise I'm worried they'd be upset at the prospect of a room full of people shuffling their decks.
Another counterpoint to the "it's all luck" argument: Despite the amount of variance/luck in Weiss, there are several players who consistently make top cut (or barely bubble out) at large tournaments. They can't all just be lucky over that many events across that many seasons.
Actually that's a very good point. I wish I had added that in now XD
Well, outside of the natural RNG that comes from being a card game, there is a difference in perception between games with stuff like triggers versus games that have certain decks heavy on RNG. With stuff like Desires, Lightsworn, Danger!, and Tear they all are parts where you "opt in" on the idea of being subject to RNG during the deckbuilding process. If you choose to run Desires you are accepting that sometimes you might banish every card important for your strategy. Yeah you could argue that it doesn't really count as opting in if it's something like Tear which was considered mandatory to play if you wanted to run a competitive deck for its format but that's an exception rather than a rule.
Games that have trigger mechanics are systemwide so people who don't like the RNG will be turned off because they know there isn't a deck they can play to avoid it. Plus, it's way more in your face to see your cards thrown into a damage zone and rendered inaccessible or see a game-winning swing blocked because a trigger just HAPPENED to be on top of your opponent's deck. I don't really have a negative perception on trigger-heavy games in general since the way they blend with the game's design is really complicated, it has pros and cons. I get why it has the image of being less competitive.
Honestly, very fair points.
The initial commenter made it more feel like their point was "high rng bad, equals weiss bad" so I mostly just wanted to establish how there is high rng in lots of games, but had lots of examples from personal experience. If the trigger mechanics of weiss just don't click with someone, that's perfectly fine with me. I like how you worded your points concisely though, it is greatly appreciated for the insight as well! :3
THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE is the TCGs saying WS is all RNG lose at deck out. WS you take damage and discard is deck. They are just salty. XD
WS getting RNG screwed takes A TURN OR TWO TO FIX! That combo needed in stock? Play cards to get it out of there. In clock? DAMAGE YOURSELF or wait a turn.
I was just interested in trading cards and Hololive. I just stumbled into learning about WS this week.
Learning that Hololive has an official TCG starting in September I'll wait and start with the official Hololive TCG first as it will probably be easier to learn ground floor with the rest of the newbies. If Hololive WS stays active I may also check it out eventually.
I would give weiss a change if I had a bigger local. weiss is dependant on your area. example I would have a buffet of choices if I was in Socal.I treat weiss as a fun side game that I get to play my favorite anime. I could bring my Kaguya love is war meta deck and still do well with the new decks. I dont have to get the new sets because I'm not interested in the IP.
that's very fair. like even for us, we're based out of north carolina and the closest regionals when they come around is in georgia, so it takes us a bit to get there XD
Honestly when i lose based on pure rng i cant even be mad, im more so impressed. Like catching lighting in a bottle when they survive 3x gura
Same, it's just how the game runs sometimes.
I've only ever seen 1 person survive triple gura and it was epic XD
I'm more curious on the program you had as the footage when talking over, where can i get that? it looks really nice
i have played very little weiss schwarz (all have been real life but in rare occasions) but i would also wonder if there ever would be any program/online clients to play weiss but this one looks so good with the automated turns and effect reveals
it's a free weiss simulator on itch.io, they do pretty regular updates. i'll update the description in a sec to add a link you can go to
@@BaseDamage Thank you for putting the link for the simulator, tried it just out now and i like it very a lot ^^
ps. what you talked about in the video was also interesting to hear
@@AquaDreiger thank you very much! also no problem at all! I'm glad it could help
Well the rng in stuff like tearlaments and in dangers is not that like that much rng. Its good if you get and its good if you dont
Probably a bit too much of a tangent for this video, but yeah - it was initially underrated by tcg players because of the random aspect, turned out if your deck and skill were both good enough, you were almost unstoppable.
I think looking at event attendance is a bad way to compare games, I know you weren't, Pokemon and YuGiOh are tcg institutions at this point.
oh it's very much a bad way to compare games. I just know that if I don't state it that somebody else will XD
The absolute worst example of RNG in a tcg is Pokemon's prize card system, where important cards have a chance of just not being in your deck. Like if you're playing Arceus V and all four of the Arceus V end up in your prizes, you've basically ended up in an unwinnable state before the first card is drawn. The odds of that happening are slim, but it's a very real issue for 2-of techs that you include for specific matchups.
I contemplated mentioning that in the video but I already throw enough shade at ygo and mtg, I'm wary about getting the pokemon community upset at me XD
But all jokes aside, you're completely right. I don't know as much about the pokemon tcg but that fact of the prize cards has always not set well with me. To each their own though lol
With digimon, it is a similar system with 5 cards but the cards do not go to your hand. So even if you can manage a KO, you can’t access those cards
@@MannyGamboaTV I was completely unaware of that. That's kinda bad, at least from an outsiders' perspective
@@BaseDamage on the flip side, when cards are hit in life, they activate effects and/or battle the attacking digimon, so they are not entirely dead in life.
I'm not very familiar with this game, but it feels like the argument is extrapolating quite a lot from just personal preference. Like, mtg is pretty high variance, and that's by design! While it puts me off the more strictly competitive formats, the big growth area for years now is in a 100 card singleton group free-for-all format, so a lot of people do seem to enjoy it? And tho many other games have scaled back the random elements, many digital card games have reintroduced a lot more of it in other ways - hearthstone would involve a ttrpg-level amount of rules and dice-rolling if you wanted to play it on paper.
To be clear, I'm not even well-informed enough to say whether they have a point about this game, but randomness itself is not only necessary at some level, but a lot of games aim to leverage more of it for entertainment value. The critique has to get into a lot more nuance to support such a dismissive conclusion, otherwise I'm worried they'd be upset at the prospect of a room full of people shuffling their decks.
Yeah but rng is part of weiss every turn, every mechanic depends or rng