This is wild. If I go out to my local National Forest and just climb a mountain, ain’t no park ranger enforcing the route I took. This is entrapment to make an example of people and circumvent the lack of resources that parks have to do their jobs.
Maan.. this is crazy!! Criminal charges for using a trail that's been like this for 40 years when even past FKTs have used it without issue? Just give the guy a fine if you must and move on.. this is ridiculous. And fix the trail or close it completely!
full respect to this dude and that awesome effort - but I've got to wonder if he brought this whole controversy on himself with his strava recap where he claims the choice with some bravado and then literally says "or fight me" if people have a problem with it, and now he's being fought. Hope it turns out ok for him!
Dam this is bizarre. If the wanna close a trail the should CLOSE the trail - little sign that’s been ignored for years is nonsense. Hopefully he’ll get a judge with a brain. This guy should have the ranger’s job - he obviously cares more for the area than the whoever the ranger is.
The only thing that reasonable people can disagree about is whether taking the switchbacks or the Old Miner's Trail is the faster way to go. There can be no debate that Michelino set a new FKT. He followed the "rules" as they have been practiced by all who have attempted and secured the FKT on this route in the past. Now Fastest Known Times decides to hang Michelino out to dry instead of standing up for him in the dispute with the Grand Teton Rangers. They should accept his FKT and say that going forward the only acceptable route will be the switchbacks, if that's what they want to do. But to deny Michelino and to now decide to put an asterisk beside the names of others who have taken the Old Miner's Trail is dishonest, in my opinion. That Michelino's run on the Old Miner's Trail section of these trails has exposed him to criminal liability is scandalous, and the powers that be involved in bringing these charges should be ashamed of themselves when it is beyond clear that Michelino had no way of knowing that the trail was closed other than a 40 year old sign that everyone has been apparently ignoring for 40 years. At the very most, Michelino should get a slap on the wrist, and the forest service should close the trail with an actual barrier - logs, stones, whatever, would suffice - at both the top and the bottom. I am extremely grateful to you, Dylan, for bringing Michelino's plight to light. Thank you. Please keep us up to date on what happens with this story. Hang in there Michelino!
Firstly, I congratulate Michelino on his amazing run and I also think the criminal charges are insane and I signed the change petition in support of him. However... I can see both sides here. Michelino is being singled out because of the high profile of his effort. It's obvious, where there is mismanagement in parks and inconsistencies in what is allowed and what isn't, even in the same park, and neglect for 40 years, it allows people to ignore some of the laundry list of tedious regulations and start to take liberities. Locals in these areas, when they see "closed for regrowth" but a compact trail that hasn't regrown after 40 years, then yeah its commonly taken and a blind eye turned by authorities. But where there is photography, social media and other things that are being broadcast to thousands, and millions of people worldwide, there is a greater responsibility in these attempts to abide by the rules to the letter. As other runners have said, Michelino should have known better. If you want the accolades and profile from your achievements, you also have a responsibility to the community that is going to take motivation from those achievements and want to follow in the footsteps. Even though the old climbers trail is regularly used and was used in past FKT attempts, and the park doesn't seem to care in general (until now), but past overlooking was before the "influencer" landscape we now experience, and times have changed. When things go on social media there is greater responsibility needed for how the attempt is conducted. Parks are busy than ever before and this worries park officials who see how things could guess worse in the future. When the attempt is made against other FKT's that took illegal turns, it should be made clear the attempt is the "first" done on the legal route and establish a new FKT. This then sets the stage for all attempts that come after it, rather than continuing the course of taking illegal liberties (because this is how its always been done). Its important to have the courage to be the first to say, let's do it properly. Michelino missed an opportunity here to set the new standard for future attempts - because if both Andy and He took the switchbacks, this adds pressure on the person on the next attempt to do the same. There are inconsistencies in this interview about why the shortcut was taken and I think he should just own it. The decision was taken to save time and he always knew the trail was technically closed even if he says otherwise. Michelino even mentioned of wanting to honor Andy's descent route, but changed when he was falling behind. Then the reason changed to worry about people on the trail slowing him down, but why do the attempt on a busy labour day then? The obvious reason was because Michelino felt it was slightly faster way down for himself (even if Andy disagreed on the timing) and he wanted to be certain of the record. When he did 45 previous climbs he undoubtedly saw the sign of closure at the bottom many times. He had it up his sleeve in case he was behind on time, but if he had more breathing space he would have taken Andy's route instead. This is proof really that he knew it was not an ideal route to take, and only wanted to risk it if he was short on time - this is basic admission he 100% knew it was not the best choice. But that said, if you're going to police the rules and make one person a scapegoat, then police the rules everywhere for everyone and do proper maintenance but make them fines, not criminal charges in cases where there is no actual damage caused. I believe there has been efforts for Michelino and friends to actually do the regrowth rehabilitation work and avoid criminal charges but this was rejected. It seems really stupid, but they want an example made and hopefully the trail running community can learn a lesson here. There are always stupid inconsistent rules, but just because of this, it doesn't mean we can take the liberities in protest. Social run? Sure, but a record attempt? Nah its got to be done properly. And Michelino even admitted he wanted to honor Andy's achievement by following his same descent on the switchbacks but changed his mind when he got behind in time. This was a selfish decision made in the heat of the moment, in hindsight, he should have taken Andy's descent route just to prove he was worthy of taking the crown. But as was discussed, there are many grey areas in FKT attempts, but maybe its time we set some standards and uphold them for all who follow. Each record attempt should set the standard for the future. We all have the responsibility moving forward whether we agree with the park rules or not.
Defense: Your lawyer can subpoena any records that exist that the Park Service has issued any prior citations to individuals using the climbers trail. If they have not cited anyone except you, then this is unequal application of the law since obviously the trail has been used thousands of times over many years.
And it’s ok for people to do drugs and overdose in the streets of Seattle all the time with no repercussions…yet you can’t take a horribly marked and unenforced trail. Makes total sense. Hoping for the best for this dude!
This is wild. If I go out to my local National Forest and just climb a mountain, ain’t no park ranger enforcing the route I took. This is entrapment to make an example of people and circumvent the lack of resources that parks have to do their jobs.
It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out. If it goes to trial, it’ll be a spectacle, which the NPS probs doesn’t want.
For another perspective one should listen to the Singletrack Podcast 2024 FKT in Review episode.
In the Anton/Kilian video I think the trail in question is from about 6:30 to 7:30.
WHAT a great podcast! Love from Portugal!
Maan.. this is crazy!! Criminal charges for using a trail that's been like this for 40 years when even past FKTs have used it without issue? Just give the guy a fine if you must and move on.. this is ridiculous. And fix the trail or close it completely!
full respect to this dude and that awesome effort - but I've got to wonder if he brought this whole controversy on himself with his strava recap where he claims the choice with some bravado and then literally says "or fight me" if people have a problem with it, and now he's being fought. Hope it turns out ok for him!
#FreeMichelino
Yep, that’s right. Sorry, should have time stamped.
Dam this is bizarre. If the wanna close a trail the should CLOSE the trail - little sign that’s been ignored for years is nonsense. Hopefully he’ll get a judge with a brain. This guy should have the ranger’s job - he obviously cares more for the area than the whoever the ranger is.
The only thing that reasonable people can disagree about is whether taking the switchbacks or the Old Miner's Trail is the faster way to go. There can be no debate that Michelino set a new FKT. He followed the "rules" as they have been practiced by all who have attempted and secured the FKT on this route in the past. Now Fastest Known Times decides to hang Michelino out to dry instead of standing up for him in the dispute with the Grand Teton Rangers. They should accept his FKT and say that going forward the only acceptable route will be the switchbacks, if that's what they want to do. But to deny Michelino and to now decide to put an asterisk beside the names of others who have taken the Old Miner's Trail is dishonest, in my opinion. That Michelino's run on the Old Miner's Trail section of these trails has exposed him to criminal liability is scandalous, and the powers that be involved in bringing these charges should be ashamed of themselves when it is beyond clear that Michelino had no way of knowing that the trail was closed other than a 40 year old sign that everyone has been apparently ignoring for 40 years. At the very most, Michelino should get a slap on the wrist, and the forest service should close the trail with an actual barrier - logs, stones, whatever, would suffice - at both the top and the bottom. I am extremely grateful to you, Dylan, for bringing Michelino's plight to light. Thank you. Please keep us up to date on what happens with this story. Hang in there Michelino!
Firstly, I congratulate Michelino on his amazing run and I also think the criminal charges are insane and I signed the change petition in support of him. However...
I can see both sides here. Michelino is being singled out because of the high profile of his effort. It's obvious, where there is mismanagement in parks and inconsistencies in what is allowed and what isn't, even in the same park, and neglect for 40 years, it allows people to ignore some of the laundry list of tedious regulations and start to take liberities. Locals in these areas, when they see "closed for regrowth" but a compact trail that hasn't regrown after 40 years, then yeah its commonly taken and a blind eye turned by authorities.
But where there is photography, social media and other things that are being broadcast to thousands, and millions of people worldwide, there is a greater responsibility in these attempts to abide by the rules to the letter. As other runners have said, Michelino should have known better. If you want the accolades and profile from your achievements, you also have a responsibility to the community that is going to take motivation from those achievements and want to follow in the footsteps.
Even though the old climbers trail is regularly used and was used in past FKT attempts, and the park doesn't seem to care in general (until now), but past overlooking was before the "influencer" landscape we now experience, and times have changed. When things go on social media there is greater responsibility needed for how the attempt is conducted. Parks are busy than ever before and this worries park officials who see how things could guess worse in the future. When the attempt is made against other FKT's that took illegal turns, it should be made clear the attempt is the "first" done on the legal route and establish a new FKT. This then sets the stage for all attempts that come after it, rather than continuing the course of taking illegal liberties (because this is how its always been done). Its important to have the courage to be the first to say, let's do it properly. Michelino missed an opportunity here to set the new standard for future attempts - because if both Andy and He took the switchbacks, this adds pressure on the person on the next attempt to do the same.
There are inconsistencies in this interview about why the shortcut was taken and I think he should just own it. The decision was taken to save time and he always knew the trail was technically closed even if he says otherwise. Michelino even mentioned of wanting to honor Andy's descent route, but changed when he was falling behind. Then the reason changed to worry about people on the trail slowing him down, but why do the attempt on a busy labour day then? The obvious reason was because Michelino felt it was slightly faster way down for himself (even if Andy disagreed on the timing) and he wanted to be certain of the record. When he did 45 previous climbs he undoubtedly saw the sign of closure at the bottom many times. He had it up his sleeve in case he was behind on time, but if he had more breathing space he would have taken Andy's route instead. This is proof really that he knew it was not an ideal route to take, and only wanted to risk it if he was short on time - this is basic admission he 100% knew it was not the best choice.
But that said, if you're going to police the rules and make one person a scapegoat, then police the rules everywhere for everyone and do proper maintenance but make them fines, not criminal charges in cases where there is no actual damage caused. I believe there has been efforts for Michelino and friends to actually do the regrowth rehabilitation work and avoid criminal charges but this was rejected. It seems really stupid, but they want an example made and hopefully the trail running community can learn a lesson here. There are always stupid inconsistent rules, but just because of this, it doesn't mean we can take the liberities in protest. Social run? Sure, but a record attempt? Nah its got to be done properly.
And Michelino even admitted he wanted to honor Andy's achievement by following his same descent on the switchbacks but changed his mind when he got behind in time. This was a selfish decision made in the heat of the moment, in hindsight, he should have taken Andy's descent route just to prove he was worthy of taking the crown. But as was discussed, there are many grey areas in FKT attempts, but maybe its time we set some standards and uphold them for all who follow. Each record attempt should set the standard for the future. We all have the responsibility moving forward whether we agree with the park rules or not.
Well said, especially about influencer culture requiring more responsibility
Defense: Your lawyer can subpoena any records that exist that the Park Service has issued any prior citations to individuals using the climbers trail. If they have not cited anyone except you, then this is unequal application of the law since obviously the trail has been used thousands of times over many years.
And it’s ok for people to do drugs and overdose in the streets of Seattle all the time with no repercussions…yet you can’t take a horribly marked and unenforced trail. Makes total sense. Hoping for the best for this dude!
Trails are meant for running