Thank you so much @Freetrail for covering this and giving Stian the opportunity to talk about the situation freely in a supportive environment. He's always been one of the most inspiring and likeable athletes in the sport, now more so than ever, and it's fantastic to have him back!
I have been following Stian for a while, he used to run a lot in Spain. Extremely nice guy. I was wondering why he was training (I follow him in Strava) but not competing.... Sad to hear this story, I hope whatever wrongdoing it was done gets corrected.
Honestly the conclusion of this discussion is quite depressing to me. If Stian's story is true and he got contaminated prior or during the OCC race (which AFLD seems to agree with) and he could not find the source, it just means it's going to happen again to other athletes and could even happen to himself in his next race if he gets unlucky. It also means we can't even believe in doping prevention anymore. If many clean athletes get caught while trying their best to keep the sport in a good place then the cheaters are just going to abuse the system and argue that they got contaminated as well, which seems to already be the case to be fair with the recent Tennis scandals or the Shelby Houlihan doping story. On the AFLD taking 4 months to respond, while I understand the frustration on Stian's side you also have to remember that it is an agency of less than 50 people working on all sports in France during the Paris olympics. Stian is not a french athlete and not competing in the olympics so he must have been quite low on their priority list unfortunately. I'd say they actually were quite quick to respond when you are use to other french administrations 😄
Bs. If they can have someone at every race watching someone pee then that person should have training and time to respond in timely manner. They gave him only 5 and 15 days to take action- so they had people to receive those actions. Why wouldn’t they automatically test the b sample? Testing needs to be much more transparent. The sample goes in the lab and a “result” comes out. I have a good friend who working in water testing lab for municipalities. Samples are run multiple times before results are reported. The labs are regularly inspected and tested. What’s the oversight protocol of these drug testing labs. Just wanna learn.
@@marlinweekley51 I'm not trying to defend the AFLD by any means but I feel context is important They are not at every race at all. For trail racing they only cover UTMB and Templiers as far as I know and recently added some athletes to their year round testing group. And again they don't only cover running, they cover ALL sports with Rugby, Football, Cycling and Athletics having the most testing done. Considering they are less than 50 people and made 6000 tests just for the Paris olympics alone, unfortunately it takes more time than we'd like to for each case to be processed. In the end Stian couldn't provide any source of contamination himself and that's not really the fault of the AFLD for that. I agree that b-sample in an ideal world should automatically be tested. It's just a cost issue unfortunately. I think right now it's the athlete who has to pay for the b-sample to be analysed. Keep in mind also that b-sample are almost always confirming the a-sample which was also the case here. I think it was Peter Bol who unfortunately had a difference between his a-sample and b-sample and got cleared in the end but that never happened for any doping case in France as far as I know. The testing labs for anti-doping are highly controlled. You need a world anti-doping accreditation which follow International Standard for Laboratories. Here's the list of labs www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/wada_accredited_laboratories_decembre-fr-2.pdf France only has one lab with that accreditation so there must definitely have oversight protocols in place. The worrying part of the story is that if Stian is saying the truth we know he would have been contaminated prior or during the UTMB race, not by his products or any close family member. So how it happened is honestly concerning to me.
@@12MrTwelve and why was the sample in the private refrigerator and why so long. Contaminates I would think could be transferred and if his was in that refrigerator, were there other urine samples in there too that could have a say in all of this? That very gray time frame in that person's refrigerator is very questionable.
@@Pam._G And why did they change the date on the sample form to say it was delivered earlier than it was if this was "normal"... were the other samples collected from the OCC field also stored there, or was Stian's the only one? If I was Toni McCann, I'd probably be talking to my lawyers right about now to find out what happened to that sample.
All medical or similar laboratory tests (e.g. food control for pesticide residues) are carried out strictly according to the described analysis protocols, from sample collection to interpretation of the results. This is called "method validation". No method validation protocol will have a clause that "the sample can be stored in a private refrigerator for X time". Elementary laboratory logic says that the sample should have been sealed and transported to the official laboratory immediately, while being stored at a specified temperature (e.g. in a cooler). And already in the laboratory it can be stored in the refrigerator for X time, because the temperatures of laboratory refrigerators are controlled according to good laboratory practice protocols. Meanwhile, the temperature of a home refrigerator depends on how often you open the door, and I won't even elaborate on possible cross-contamination, because "storing in a private refrigerator" is in no way compatible with the avoidability of cross-contamination. So it seems that either the analysis protocol was grossly violated (highly likely) or the analysis was performed using non validated methods (unlikely). In both cases, the analysis results cannot be considered valid, but here it is necessary to go to court and file a lawsuit.
You would think that if the runner's have to, and do take dopping seriously that the officials doing the testing would take it even more serious. I've never won anything that I had to get tested for but I imagined the Pee cup went straight into a steril envorionment, not hanging out next to slabs of steak and a case of liquid death in someones house. fuck that is crazy!
Interesting and important conversation, especially as trail becomes more and more like all the others. Stian could do an independent polygraph as part of a fully documented social media video and also maybe take a full blood panel and post the results to a hormone specialist or something like this. I posted earlier saying I don’t believe him in my gut, then deleted my comment.. I really don’t know.. I also said he shouldn’t be condemned no matter what. Athletes aren’t priests
Polygraphs are pseudoscience, they are easily fooled in blind trials all the time. A blood panel would also not solve the issue here, since as noted at the start of the interview the AFLD messed up the validity of followup testing by waiting 50 days to report the positive test. A negative test would easily be explained as being due to the length of time since the event. That is not necessarily the case with any positive, but it is for Chlorthalidone.
Thanks for you honest comment. Definitely a tough situation, though the evidence suggests that he's telling the truth. Evidenced by the settlement offer and third party official.
Bora Stian, I'm with you from Portugal. Of course, your life has suffered a major setback that has caused you to lose all your sponsors. Now, as sports people, we have an obligation to put pressure on the brands to undo the injustice they've done to you.
Wow, somehow tests or whatever has to be real realistic happened to me similar I was coming back from Ronan please and seen me walking to my car and they thought I was staggering. It’s like 5 o’clock in the morning from my early morning run and they pulled me over they give me a DWI even though I passed all their tests and brought me to hospital took blood the whole bit luckily my company cause normally you’re suspended Because of my integrity but we drive by bucket trucks and big construction trucks. He said he can’t drive one of those, but my boss allowed me to just step away into an office job for a week or so until the test came back all negative, but you know I was serious and and that was something probably very minor next to what he’s been through. Somethings have to be changed. I guess on all kinds of different drug test but on the other side, there’s new people making new things every single day so who knows I would think just all the mess ups that they had where the guy keeping in his own refrigerator sounds like something crooked was going on that the whole thing would’ve been washed away, but it’s not America so I don’t know. Keep them in prayer that everything will work out.
Stian's performance at OCC in 2023 wasn't an unusually high performance when compared to the level of athlete that he is. Why would Stian put his entire reputation and career on the line by taking a masking agent the day before or during the race, when this is a race he was very likely to win or at least podium? The risk versus benefit here just doesn't add up, at least not to me. The same goes for a scenario where Stian had been cheating for years. An athlete who understands doping versus testing well enough to cheat the system successfully multiple times, all of a sudden takes a masking agent within a time frame when he is just about guaranteed to be caught? Considering the particulars of Stian's case, his reputation in the sport, both as an athlete and as a person, that he was about to have a second child with his girlfriend, it's hard to imagine a scenario where he would stupidly throw away his career and ability to provide for his family. Personally, I hope the trail running community gives him a second chance.
Thank you so much @Freetrail for covering this and giving Stian the opportunity to talk about the situation freely in a supportive environment. He's always been one of the most inspiring and likeable athletes in the sport, now more so than ever, and it's fantastic to have him back!
Wow. Amazingly powerful interview. Just wow. I really hope a company picks him up. Thanks Mr. Bowman.
The private fridge situation is crazy
Seriously...
@@Freetrail It's like something out of "Dumb & Dumber".
Thanks Dylan for bringing this up, and big respect to Stian
You're a champ Stian. Hang in there and fight the good fight ❤
Great conversation. Good luck Stian! Can’t wait to see you back on the trails.
❤Hang in there Stian! ❤ Sending love from Germany!!!
Looking forward for your comeback champ!
I have been following Stian for a while, he used to run a lot in Spain. Extremely nice guy. I was wondering why he was training (I follow him in Strava) but not competing.... Sad to hear this story, I hope whatever wrongdoing it was done gets corrected.
Involuntarily sidelined 😐
You are able to survive everything. Trust in you 💪
I know you are going to come back 🤟
Honestly the conclusion of this discussion is quite depressing to me.
If Stian's story is true and he got contaminated prior or during the OCC race (which AFLD seems to agree with) and he could not find the source, it just means it's going to happen again to other athletes and could even happen to himself in his next race if he gets unlucky.
It also means we can't even believe in doping prevention anymore. If many clean athletes get caught while trying their best to keep the sport in a good place then the cheaters are just going to abuse the system and argue that they got contaminated as well, which seems to already be the case to be fair with the recent Tennis scandals or the Shelby Houlihan doping story.
On the AFLD taking 4 months to respond, while I understand the frustration on Stian's side you also have to remember that it is an agency of less than 50 people working on all sports in France during the Paris olympics. Stian is not a french athlete and not competing in the olympics so he must have been quite low on their priority list unfortunately. I'd say they actually were quite quick to respond when you are use to other french administrations 😄
Bs. If they can have someone at every race watching someone pee then that person should have training and time to respond in timely manner. They gave him only 5 and 15 days to take action- so they had people to receive those actions.
Why wouldn’t they automatically test the b sample?
Testing needs to be much more transparent. The sample goes in the lab and a “result” comes out.
I have a good friend who working in water testing lab for municipalities. Samples are run multiple times before results are reported. The labs are regularly inspected and tested. What’s the oversight protocol of these drug testing labs. Just wanna learn.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah, creates more questions than it answers!
@@marlinweekley51 I'm not trying to defend the AFLD by any means but I feel context is important
They are not at every race at all. For trail racing they only cover UTMB and Templiers as far as I know and recently added some athletes to their year round testing group. And again they don't only cover running, they cover ALL sports with Rugby, Football, Cycling and Athletics having the most testing done. Considering they are less than 50 people and made 6000 tests just for the Paris olympics alone, unfortunately it takes more time than we'd like to for each case to be processed. In the end Stian couldn't provide any source of contamination himself and that's not really the fault of the AFLD for that.
I agree that b-sample in an ideal world should automatically be tested. It's just a cost issue unfortunately. I think right now it's the athlete who has to pay for the b-sample to be analysed. Keep in mind also that b-sample are almost always confirming the a-sample which was also the case here. I think it was Peter Bol who unfortunately had a difference between his a-sample and b-sample and got cleared in the end but that never happened for any doping case in France as far as I know.
The testing labs for anti-doping are highly controlled. You need a world anti-doping accreditation which follow International Standard for Laboratories. Here's the list of labs www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2024-12/wada_accredited_laboratories_decembre-fr-2.pdf
France only has one lab with that accreditation so there must definitely have oversight protocols in place.
The worrying part of the story is that if Stian is saying the truth we know he would have been contaminated prior or during the UTMB race, not by his products or any close family member. So how it happened is honestly concerning to me.
@@12MrTwelve and why was the sample in the private refrigerator and why so long. Contaminates I would think could be transferred and if his was in that refrigerator, were there other urine samples in there too that could have a say in all of this? That very gray time frame in that person's refrigerator is very questionable.
@@Pam._G And why did they change the date on the sample form to say it was delivered earlier than it was if this was "normal"... were the other samples collected from the OCC field also stored there, or was Stian's the only one? If I was Toni McCann, I'd probably be talking to my lawyers right about now to find out what happened to that sample.
I'm hopeful that Stian's going to get back to dominating, then we'll look back at his DQ with an asterisk, confident he's been clean throughout.
Thanks for tuning in! Definitely a learning moment for anti-doping.
All medical or similar laboratory tests (e.g. food control for pesticide residues) are carried out strictly according to the described analysis protocols, from sample collection to interpretation of the results. This is called "method validation". No method validation protocol will have a clause that "the sample can be stored in a private refrigerator for X time". Elementary laboratory logic says that the sample should have been sealed and transported to the official laboratory immediately, while being stored at a specified temperature (e.g. in a cooler). And already in the laboratory it can be stored in the refrigerator for X time, because the temperatures of laboratory refrigerators are controlled according to good laboratory practice protocols. Meanwhile, the temperature of a home refrigerator depends on how often you open the door, and I won't even elaborate on possible cross-contamination, because "storing in a private refrigerator" is in no way compatible with the avoidability of cross-contamination.
So it seems that either the analysis protocol was grossly violated (highly likely) or the analysis was performed using non validated methods (unlikely). In both cases, the analysis results cannot be considered valid, but here it is necessary to go to court and file a lawsuit.
I hope you get cleared and your attorney sues the AFLD, this is ridiculous! I wish you the best Stian, stay strong!
Brutal trip
What kind of method is that to have a doping official keep the sample in his private fridge for days.. wtf?! That should not be ok.
You would think that if the runner's have to, and do take dopping seriously that the officials doing the testing would take it even more serious. I've never won anything that I had to get tested for but I imagined the Pee cup went straight into a steril envorionment, not hanging out next to slabs of steak and a case of liquid death in someones house. fuck that is crazy!
The opposite of the justice system - you have to prove your innocence.
Interesting and important conversation, especially as trail becomes more and more like all the others. Stian could do an independent polygraph as part of a fully documented social media video and also maybe take a full blood panel and post the results to a hormone specialist or something like this. I posted earlier saying I don’t believe him in my gut, then deleted my comment.. I really don’t know.. I also said he shouldn’t be condemned no matter what. Athletes aren’t priests
Polygraphs are pseudoscience, they are easily fooled in blind trials all the time. A blood panel would also not solve the issue here, since as noted at the start of the interview the AFLD messed up the validity of followup testing by waiting 50 days to report the positive test.
A negative test would easily be explained as being due to the length of time since the event. That is not necessarily the case with any positive, but it is for Chlorthalidone.
Thanks for you honest comment. Definitely a tough situation, though the evidence suggests that he's telling the truth. Evidenced by the settlement offer and third party official.
Bora Stian, I'm with you from Portugal. Of course, your life has suffered a major setback that has caused you to lose all your sponsors. Now, as sports people, we have an obligation to put pressure on the brands to undo the injustice they've done to you.
Maybe Freetrail can be part of the solution... 👀
@ For sure, just the fact that this episode happened is already a good start.
Wow, somehow tests or whatever has to be real realistic happened to me similar I was coming back from Ronan please and seen me walking to my car and they thought I was staggering. It’s like 5 o’clock in the morning from my early morning run and they pulled me over they give me a DWI even though I passed all their tests and brought me to hospital took blood the whole bit luckily my company cause normally you’re suspended Because of my integrity but we drive by bucket trucks and big construction trucks. He said he can’t drive one of those, but my boss allowed me to just step away into an office job for a week or so until the test came back all negative, but you know I was serious and and that was something probably very minor next to what he’s been through. Somethings have to be changed. I guess on all kinds of different drug test but on the other side, there’s new people making new things every single day so who knows I would think just all the mess ups that they had where the guy keeping in his own refrigerator sounds like something crooked was going on that the whole thing would’ve been washed away, but it’s not America so I don’t know. Keep them in prayer that everything will work out.
I'm in his corner.
Stian's performance at OCC in 2023 wasn't an unusually high performance when compared to the level of athlete that he is. Why would Stian put his entire reputation and career on the line by taking a masking agent the day before or during the race, when this is a race he was very likely to win or at least podium? The risk versus benefit here just doesn't add up, at least not to me. The same goes for a scenario where Stian had been cheating for years. An athlete who understands doping versus testing well enough to cheat the system successfully multiple times, all of a sudden takes a masking agent within a time frame when he is just about guaranteed to be caught? Considering the particulars of Stian's case, his reputation in the sport, both as an athlete and as a person, that he was about to have a second child with his girlfriend, it's hard to imagine a scenario where he would stupidly throw away his career and ability to provide for his family. Personally, I hope the trail running community gives him a second chance.
shame on the french anti doping agency - SHAME!
don't let this guy off the hook
What do you mean?
Did you listen to the part about the third party official who concluded this was very likely an inadvertent contamination?