Hiya, a good recall from play on 1st ask. Obedient stop whistle within 15m. Starting to heel free. Walk to heel on lead with little pulling. Retrieve to hand 8/10 times. Hunt enthusiastically on open ground (no game). Learning left and right direction work. All the above without distractions, but starting to put them in. It is impossible to state this as a norm however. Your dogs progress will depend on your facilities, time and experience. Dog should definately be house trained, reasonably obedient and be well controlled about the home.
@@AyteeGSPs yea I'm certainly not rushing him. I do 10 mins of training at the beginning of walk. Like a bit of retrieving, sitting at distance. And then let him play
Hi Aytee! I'm getting my first GSP in a few weeks and looking forward to working with such an intelligent breed. However, I have only obedience trained dogs for in the home. I normally use sit as a default behavior before getting a treat, getting a meal, going through a doorway, when I stop on a walk etc. However, I've heard that using sit as a default can make it difficult to teach the dog woah. What type of obedience behavior do you ask of your dog before getting a treat, food, going through a doorway etc?
Hi Kara, sure sit is my default too but they are not always treated for it and I am happy for the dog to stand and wait at a doorway as they mature, as long as they are not excited and pushing. The treat is usually delivered for the most important part of an exercise eg, recall or dummy to hand from water and the the sit automatically follows that, bringing calmness back. The time they might get treated for the sit itself is right in the beginning when the are learning sit, or later on obeying a stop whistle whether close or at distance. ( I dont use Woah) but have never found their default of sitting or standing will interfere with bird work or the response to a stop whistle. I hope this answers your question.
Hi Aytee gang. I found your channel earlier today and love all of these training videos. I have a 10 month old English Pointer that I've had for about 6 weeks. Do you find these training manuals to be super specific to GSPs or will I be able to use them on my English pointer girl too? I've used a number of the things I've seen in your videos previously and have already learned so much about the pointer through this channel - not using the "stay" and "wait" commands after "sit" and such. I can't wait to watch more. Thanks for the tips!
Ha, not very quick replying am I 🙄. hope training going well with your pointer. The manuals are specific to HPR's rather than setters and pointers, but you will always find some common stuff as you have discovered. enjoy !
Hi David, I would say that you need to do more sit work at close quarters. Simply stepping one pace to the side initiallty and when you do this keep holding up you hand with the palm facing him. Only leave him for a second to start with and slowly build it up. If you move forward too quickly you will get the result that you have now. So go back to more basic work now and as you progress any time that you find he moves return to easier work so that he achieves. It is all about confidence and some dog are naturally more confident than others. Good luck !
Hi Tyson, Have a look at our video www.aytee.co.uk/level-1/ "First off lead work" with further progress on Level 2. You will need to persevere but over a period of weeks they will get the hang of it. Good luck ! L
Hiya. Yes, they are very important initially on a recall and to a less extent on other training. As the dog grows in confidence and reliability I virtually stop using them but am always ready to use if the dog needs extra reward.
Most British hunters use classical methods of training by slip collars. The slip collar is the same as a choke chain. Are the dog slip collars, choke chains and prong collars legal in the UK? I am dog training and hunter and begin to train gundogs to sit, down, stay, retrieve, etc.(obedience) by the age of 2,5 - 3 months. I use positive reinforcement and it is very effective. Why do the British hunters rarely use positive training? Especially for spaniels no need to use slip collars and classical methods (negative reinforcement) of training. They are close working dogs and very easy to control. The British hunters still use some of P.R.A.Moxon's outdated methods of training that comes from the 1940s'. In fact, this is common for other hunters in the rest of the world such as Germany and others.
@@pozitifkopek7938 Hi, Thanks for sharing that …..I have known a wide range of training methods which regularly include positive markers. I've never seen pronged collars being used and rarely see choke chains but I find slip leads perfect for a high prey drive gundog in the field and allow for continuous training. I agree that clicker training or similar can work at close quarters, but in my experience if a maturing and very prey driven air scenting dog is to remain reliable once it is on scent and working a long distance from you, it needs a very respectful bond with its handler gained through positive training, plus, at times, consequences for poor response. I would be very interested to know if you work air scenting HPR dogs successfully at distance and of course whilst it may work for some, does it work for those dogs that are very hard hunting ? Thanks for sharing
Slip leads have the same effect as choke chains even worst. Both are choking the dog. Training with slip leads is based on negative reinforcement and you can't build a strong and respectful bond with your dog by negative reinforcement. There is no organism that like negative reinforcement. Traditional trainers use negative reinforcement and positive punishment. Positive punishment should be continuous otherwise it is not effective. There is no problem with positive reinforcement training by clickers or other markers while working in distance. You teach the dog every new behavior when the dog near you. You use a marker (clicker) only teaching new behavior after that you don't need a marker. It does not make any difference in how your breed has a strong scent drive or long distance work. You use slip leads and punish the dog while the dog near you. You don't have any chance to punish your dog with slip lead from long distance. If you want you to have to use electronic shock collars. Unless using electronic shock collars you have to negatively reinforce and punish the dog near you. While this is the case, Why don't you use positive reinforcement and negative punishment? Positive reinforcement and negative punishment are more effective and humanly that negative reinforcement and positive punishment. Most German breeds are high trainable breeds. Such as Dobermann, Rotweiller, German shepherd, etc. GSP is high trainable breed too. Positive reinforcement-based training sometimes called clicker training but the clicker is a small part of it. It is only the secondary reinforcer to teach a new behavior. Some traditional trainers who don't know well about positive training hang out on it and ask how to work distance by clicker? Positive training is more complicated and needs experience and knowledge. If you don't cover well how the dogs learn will understand it a little bit difficult. I am sure you know it but not sure did you tried it and how long? There are many opportunities to learn canine psychology and positive dog training in the UK. I had joined to animal care college canine courses by distance. This is one of the ways to learn it. At least they show which books are the right source. If you go deeper into this science you will realize that positive reinforcement and negative punishment is the best effective and humanly way of dog training and you will regret not doing this all this time. The necessary condition for this is to learn from the right place and apply it fully. There are many many sources about positive training if you don't choose the right one you can't learn it completely and succeed. Actually, you find your path after getting the right foundation. It is worth to try.
@@pozitifkopek7938 Hi Pozitifkopek, You have strong opinions which I respect, but there is not one way that suits everyone. I think being open minded and keeping things positive and happy is the best way to go. Thanks for sharing and Good luck with your dogs !
Hi Laura, Thanks for your comment and of course I respect your opinion. The most important aspect for me was that Karat did the exercise well and was praised fully for doing so. The difference in my response to her initial poor behaviour followed up by her good behaviour was clearly understood by her and she was not bothered by what you felt was rough.
Laura, this is a magnificent hunting dog.... built to be out in the wilderness. To track, flush, and retrieve birds!!!! I hardly doubt a yank of his lead and a smack on the chest as a correction is going to have a lasting negative impact on this dog. But what it will do, is get the ladies point of sitting and staying across.
Hi MrDads38ford. To be fair she probably would have responded well with only the lead correction but I would say that the dog needs a very clear signal that it made a mistake in the same way that it needs a signal that it did well. I cant have a conversation with her! The action and tone conveyed the message clearly and she was unconcerned, it had the desired result and most importantly she was able to be praised for the correct response. Thats training.
Yeah,me neither i honestly don't think its necessary to do so while training,though to be fair it was more of a clear signal in this case, then a punishment if you will,part of communication.
I've always had Labradors and never had any problems training them, now my younger boy has a SGP and let me tell you.... The dog is soooooo dumb, I give up.
Hi Non Habermus Papam, Mmm, its usually D for difficult rather than dumb. Following a line of Labs I can imagine that retrieving work sometimes feels like a training car crash. A GSP of 3yo is about the same as a Lab of 18 months for retrieving - but never forget you have a lamborghini with a nose.
You're right. D is for difficult, my frustration kicks in sometimes though lol. My GP is about 14 mo. old and is such a struggle teaching him anything but I like him a lot, I'm just not sure I'll be able to have him as hunter dog. Oh well... so be it. ;-)
Between 1 and 2 years is the most difficult training time for HPR's. Their maturity and attention span lags behind the dogs nose and prey drive, you're job is to keep the faith (and keep training) until these things line up !! Good luck, one thing to be sure of is that they are not dumb !
Deutsch Kurzhaar (GSP) are not dumb. They just have less will to please, are way more passionate and driven when it comes to game animals and are more stubborn than most Labradors. Obviously you are just not fit to train the dog. Thank god your younger boy didn't get a Deutsch Drahthaar (German Wirehaired Pointer) which are way more obstinate than GSP. You would have thought the dog is mentally handicapped.
You are excellent, really. I have been handling animals all my life and I can say that you are excellent.
thankyou, I think it is all about reading your dogs body language. If we can do that we are able to help the dog achieve
What should be the expectations for a 6 month old gsp?
Hiya, a good recall from play on 1st ask. Obedient stop whistle within 15m. Starting to heel free. Walk to heel on lead with little pulling. Retrieve to hand 8/10 times. Hunt enthusiastically on open ground (no game). Learning left and right direction work. All the above without distractions, but starting to put them in. It is impossible to state this as a norm however. Your dogs progress will depend on your facilities, time and experience. Dog should definately be house trained, reasonably obedient and be well controlled about the home.
Mine has similar markings. Hes doing well with sitting at distance and for a few minutes though haven't done much out of sight sitting.
dont rush him, if you take it very slowly he will remain solid when you go out of sight
@@AyteeGSPs yea I'm certainly not rushing him. I do 10 mins of training at the beginning of walk. Like a bit of retrieving, sitting at distance. And then let him play
Hi Aytee! I'm getting my first GSP in a few weeks and looking forward to working with such an intelligent breed. However, I have only obedience trained dogs for in the home. I normally use sit as a default behavior before getting a treat, getting a meal, going through a doorway, when I stop on a walk etc. However, I've heard that using sit as a default can make it difficult to teach the dog woah. What type of obedience behavior do you ask of your dog before getting a treat, food, going through a doorway etc?
Hi Kara, sure sit is my default too but they are not always treated for it and I am happy for the dog to stand and wait at a doorway as they mature, as long as they are not excited and pushing. The treat is usually delivered for the most important part of an exercise eg, recall or dummy to hand from water and the the sit automatically follows that, bringing calmness back. The time they might get treated for the sit itself is right in the beginning when the are learning sit, or later on obeying a stop whistle whether close or at distance. ( I dont use Woah) but have never found their default of sitting or standing will interfere with bird work or the response to a stop whistle. I hope this answers your question.
Congratulations with your youngster btw...enjoy!
Hi Aytee gang. I found your channel earlier today and love all of these training videos. I have a 10 month old English Pointer that I've had for about 6 weeks. Do you find these training manuals to be super specific to GSPs or will I be able to use them on my English pointer girl too?
I've used a number of the things I've seen in your videos previously and have already learned so much about the pointer through this channel - not using the "stay" and "wait" commands after "sit" and such. I can't wait to watch more. Thanks for the tips!
Ha, not very quick replying am I 🙄. hope training going well with your pointer. The manuals are specific to HPR's rather than setters and pointers, but you will always find some common stuff as you have discovered. enjoy !
When I tell My pointer to sit it still follows me
Hi David, I would say that you need to do more sit work at close quarters. Simply stepping one pace to the side initiallty and when you do this keep holding up you hand with the palm facing him. Only leave him for a second to start with and slowly build it up. If you move forward too quickly you will get the result that you have now. So go back to more basic work now and as you progress any time that you find he moves return to easier work so that he achieves. It is all about confidence and some dog are naturally more confident than others. Good luck !
Aytee GSPs Thanks
Fabulous videos. Thanks
very kind, thanks hope they are helpful, L
Any tips in how to stop them from pulling when in lead?
Hi Tyson,
Have a look at our video www.aytee.co.uk/level-1/ "First off lead work" with further progress on Level 2.
You will need to persevere but over a period of weeks they will get the hang of it. Good luck ! L
do you use treats at the very beginning stages of trainings ??
Hiya. Yes, they are very important initially on a recall and to a less extent on other training. As the dog grows in confidence and reliability I virtually stop using them but am always ready to use if the dog needs extra reward.
teaching sit by clicker or any other marker is easier and faster and humanly way. No need to jerk by slip collar.
Hi pozitifkopek, Thanks, you are right, there is more than one way of achieving, but she learnt well and is completely dependable in all situations
Most British hunters use classical methods of training by slip collars. The slip collar is the same as a choke chain. Are the dog slip collars, choke chains and prong collars legal in the UK? I am dog training and hunter and begin to train gundogs to sit, down, stay, retrieve, etc.(obedience) by the age of 2,5 - 3 months. I use positive reinforcement and it is very effective. Why do the British hunters rarely use positive training? Especially for spaniels no need to use slip collars and classical methods (negative reinforcement) of training. They are close working dogs and very easy to control. The British hunters still use some of P.R.A.Moxon's outdated methods of training that comes from the 1940s'. In fact, this is common for other hunters in the rest of the world such as Germany and others.
@@pozitifkopek7938 Hi, Thanks for sharing that …..I have known a wide range of training methods which regularly include positive markers. I've never seen pronged collars being used and rarely see choke chains but I find slip leads perfect for a high prey drive gundog in the field and allow for continuous training.
I agree that clicker training or similar can work at close quarters, but in my experience if a maturing and very prey driven air scenting dog is to remain reliable once it is on scent and working a long distance from you, it needs a very respectful bond with its handler gained through positive training, plus, at times, consequences for poor response.
I would be very interested to know if you work air scenting HPR dogs successfully at distance and of course whilst it may work for some, does it work for those dogs that are very hard hunting ? Thanks for sharing
Slip leads have the same effect as choke chains even worst. Both are choking the dog. Training with slip leads is based on negative reinforcement and you can't build a strong and respectful bond with your dog by negative reinforcement. There is no organism that like negative reinforcement. Traditional trainers use negative reinforcement and positive punishment. Positive punishment should be continuous otherwise it is not effective. There is no problem with positive reinforcement training by clickers or other markers while working in distance. You teach the dog every new behavior when the dog near you. You use a marker (clicker) only teaching new behavior after that you don't need a marker. It does not make any difference in how your breed has a strong scent drive or long distance work. You use slip leads and punish the dog while the dog near you. You don't have any chance to punish your dog with slip lead from long distance. If you want you to have to use electronic shock collars. Unless using electronic shock collars you have to negatively reinforce and punish the dog near you. While this is the case, Why don't you use positive reinforcement and negative punishment? Positive reinforcement and negative punishment are more effective and humanly that negative reinforcement and positive punishment.
Most German breeds are high trainable breeds. Such as Dobermann, Rotweiller, German shepherd, etc. GSP is high trainable breed too.
Positive reinforcement-based training sometimes called clicker training but the clicker is a small part of it. It is only the secondary reinforcer to teach a new behavior. Some traditional trainers who don't know well about positive training hang out on it and ask how to work distance by clicker?
Positive training is more complicated and needs experience and knowledge. If you don't cover well how the dogs learn will understand it a little bit difficult. I am sure you know it but not sure did you tried it and how long? There are many opportunities to learn canine psychology and positive dog training in the UK. I had joined to animal care college canine courses by distance. This is one of the ways to learn it. At least they show which books are the right source.
If you go deeper into this science you will realize that positive reinforcement and negative punishment is the best effective and humanly way of dog training and you will regret not doing this all this time. The necessary condition for this is to learn from the right place and apply it fully. There are many many sources about positive training if you don't choose the right one you can't learn it completely and succeed. Actually, you find your path after getting the right foundation. It is worth to try.
@@pozitifkopek7938 Hi Pozitifkopek, You have strong opinions which I respect, but there is not one way that suits everyone. I think being open minded and keeping things positive and happy is the best way to go. Thanks for sharing and Good luck with your dogs !
I didn’t like you being so rough with a slip lead and even smacking. Very uncomfortable to view and I think most trainers would consider very dated
Hi Laura, Thanks for your comment and of course I respect your opinion. The most important aspect for me was that Karat did the exercise well and was praised fully for doing so. The difference in my response to her initial poor behaviour followed up by her good behaviour was clearly understood by her and she was not bothered by what you felt was rough.
Laura, this is a magnificent hunting dog.... built to be out in the wilderness. To track, flush, and retrieve birds!!!! I hardly doubt a yank of his lead and a smack on the chest as a correction is going to have a lasting negative impact on this dog. But what it will do, is get the ladies point of sitting and staying across.
Shut up you Mary, their animals
Carrot is really cute. :)
I, balling
Dont like the part smacking the dog
Hi MrDads38ford. To be fair she probably would have responded well with only the lead correction but I would say that the dog needs a very clear signal that it made a mistake in the same way that it needs a signal that it did well. I cant have a conversation with her! The action and tone conveyed the message clearly and she was unconcerned, it had the desired result and most importantly she was able to be praised for the correct response. Thats training.
@MrDad Sounds like you've never seen ANY K9 training lmao
that just got her attention, every dog is different, all need to know when they have done something that displeases the boss.
Yeah,me neither i honestly don't think its necessary to do so while training,though to be fair it was more of a clear signal in this case, then a punishment if you will,part of communication.
kizonthekeys we mu
I've always had Labradors and never had any problems training them, now my younger boy has a SGP and let me tell you.... The dog is soooooo dumb, I give up.
Hi Non Habermus Papam, Mmm, its usually D for difficult rather than dumb. Following a line of Labs I can imagine that retrieving work sometimes feels like a training car crash. A GSP of 3yo is about the same as a Lab of 18 months for retrieving - but never forget you have a lamborghini with a nose.
You're right. D is for difficult, my frustration kicks in sometimes though lol. My GP is about 14 mo. old and is such a struggle teaching him anything but I like him a lot, I'm just not sure I'll be able to have him as hunter dog. Oh well... so be it. ;-)
Between 1 and 2 years is the most difficult training time for HPR's. Their maturity and attention span lags behind the dogs nose and prey drive, you're job is to keep the faith (and keep training) until these things line up !! Good luck, one thing to be sure of is that they are not dumb !
Smartest dogs you’ll meet Find someone with GSP training experience and you’ll learn about the breed
Deutsch Kurzhaar (GSP) are not dumb. They just have less will to please, are way more passionate and driven when it comes to game animals and are more stubborn than most Labradors. Obviously you are just not fit to train the dog. Thank god your younger boy didn't get a Deutsch Drahthaar (German Wirehaired Pointer) which are way more obstinate than GSP. You would have thought the dog is mentally handicapped.
Pathetic :)))