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Like any adaptations, there are some things that work well for a particular media than most. Video game adaptations alter the story in order to fit the gameplay and gaming mechanics. Film/TV series work well based on the run time, budget, the script, the direction, what they are able to visually tell, creative liberties, the performance of the actors, and whatever the studio wants them to tell. Overall, books are the only adaptations that can go further in detail with the storytelling, character development, engulfing your imagination with its literary style, and they are not restrained by runtime.
@@rustythecrown9317you did not just call this movie woke lmao what because they didn’t have a possessed 2 year old kill someone? Bro I know you’re probably going through a hard time and don’t know how to express your feelings so you get on UA-cam and spew all kinds of stupid shit but I highly implore you to seek some mental care.
There are so many differences that have really changed the story 1) the was little to no mention about the Spacing guild or the stranglehold they had on transport. How in the end it was their capitulation to Paul, who had the ability to destroy the Spice was the true defeat of the Empire. Without the Guild transporting everything all of the empire would collapse and they were outside the control of the Empire 2) although the Fremen had their prophecy their main focus was on changing the ecology of Dune. That underpinned everything in their lives. It was in the hidden southern region that they were establishing their green ecology. All of this was driven by the ecologist and his father before him. There was no division in the goals of the Fremen, they wanted a green planet. 3) Paul and Jessica time with the Fremen was condensed from 5 years to less than 6 months which destroyed great parts of the story- from Paul relationship with Chani, to the formation of the Fredaykin beginning with Hanah’s sons who were Paul’s responsibility for a year and who Paul taught 4) Thufir Hawat was not in the second movie and he was a big character in the book and his refusal to kill Paul for the emperor was led to the duel 5) the book themes were about the abuse of power; religion, economic, political and military and the movie only focused on the religion 6) Chani in the book is not a militant, she was the daughter of Liet-Kynes and followed his teachings on the ecology as did every Fremen. It isn’t until the 3rd book that the militant Fremen started rebelling against Paul and the Atreides and returned to their roots 7) all the water that the Fremen collected was for the purpose of greening Dune and they knew to a decagram exactly how much they needed to achieve their goals which was the reason that they would not touch the water in storage 8) no Count Fenring and his involvement in both getting a Harkonnen child from Fade Rutha as well as refusing to kill Paul in a duel when the emperor was defeated 9) Paul’s way of fighting was not Bene Gesserit it was the culmination of all of his teachers, what the Bene Gesserit taught was muscle and nerve control. The tactics he used to defeat the empire and Harkonnen were gorilla tactics taught to him by Duncan Idaho and others including the Fremen. And it takes years to learn the Bebe Gesserit muscle control technique - like learning a martial arts 10) Chani doesn’t leave Paul in fact Jessica tells her that although the princess will be his wife the princess will be less than even a concubine. This adaptation is ok-good but it ends in a way that will be very hard to continue the story without even more issues. As a movie in itself it was a 8/10 for all the brilliant visuals as an adaptation of the book it get a 5/10. I would love to see Dune get the same treatment as Lord of the Rings, simply because of the scope of the story deserves it.
7) This was mentioned in Dune: Part 2 explicitly by Stilgar. I think they did a great job with adapting to the book. They can't have a 4-5 hour long movie, and that's what would be required to do it justice. A movie will NEVER cover a book to its entirety.
The condensed timeline was really strange and caught me most off guard. Things always have to be cut but they could have kept the timeline without costing too much screen time.
The Villeneuve movies do make Paul a good man in that he refuses power until he has no other choice precisely because he knows what a monster he would become
Paul has a choice. Assuming his messianic role, manipulating the Fremen and using their fanaticism as a weapon is the only possible way to defeat the Harkonnens and the Emperor (a choice that obviously comes with the horrors of the holy war). But Paul has other choices, which involve giving up his vengeance and letting the Harkonnens win.
Same as in the books. Paul constantly tries to be the good guy overall, (with some small payback.) But the problem is the future is horrific no matter what path he chooses. He just tries to choose the less horrific one while saving humanity.
@@iamthesayyadina Paul didn't choose the less horrific path (he could avoid the Jihad by renouncing his revenge - for example by leaving Arrakis to become a Guild Navigator, as he has a vision at one point). He chooses the path that allows him to use the fanaticism of the Fremens, their Desert power, to defeat his enemies and avenge his father, which results in making holy war inevitable. And Paul does not act at all to save humanity, on the contrary (if you talk about the Golden path he does not see it in the first book, it never enters into his motivations in the first book and when he sees the Golden path, much later, he rejects it - so that's not why he makes the choices he makes in the first novel).
The theatrical release is the Director's Cut. Denis has repeatedly said that the theatrical cut has the momentum that he wants. Adding scenes would slow that momentum.
This is my biggest gripe with Denis’ adaptation. For those who didn’t read the book they might not even remember him as a character. Yueh’s betrayal was so well written. You are upset that he would betray the great Atreides house. You feel bad for him because he actually loves the Atreides but is a broken man that can only think of getting revenge on the evil Baron who tortured and killed his wife (which he is fully aware of btw!) In the movie you can get the impression he was duped by the Baron. He wasn’t. He was on a suicide mission with no hope of ever seeing his wife again. And finally, the lack of exposition on the Imperial Conditioning that Suk doctors go through (Absolute loyalty and will not harm others I believe). This makes the Atreides completely overlook Dr. Yueh as a possible traitor. The pain the Baron put him through breaks his conditioning. This added so much to the betrayal! I think Denis made a mistake excluding this in favor of better pacing. I think 10 more mins building this up would have brought so much more to the story.
Not just that, they cut the fact that Yueh's betrayal came out unexpected because the Doctors of the imperial school are mentally conditioned to serve and do no harm to their master and yet the Harkonnen managed to make him break this oath And on a sidenote, both Paul and Lady Jessica actually blames and curse him even after they discovered his letter when he explained the situation.
@@RicksterrrrrrrIt would also serve to establish the Baron as a capable, devious enemy, instead of being a blob just floating around and greasing himself in the black goo all the time.
I agree, that's my biggest grievance, otherwise I like the movie. The Space Guild and Navigators are the most important aspect of why the Spice was so important and they pretty much just left them out altogether. So no people can only guess about what a was so important about the spice.
@@robertkarp2070 In the beginning of the movie itself, spice is established as the resource used for Interstellar travel through film book exposition. Keeping that in mind, there is no guessing viewers need to do. The film itself isn't about any of that, it's about the dark journey of Paul who is a cog in the wheel set by Bene Gesserit
@@mollywoodshots6503 Yes but they don't show what they mean by it so it's just empty words. At least in the original movie they show you what they mean be enabling interspace travel.
@@robertkarp2070 The way it enables interspace travel has nothing to do with the plot or theme of the movie, so it's not really required. It would just turn out to be a world building filler that has nothing to do with the bottom line of the movie or characters.
I missed the part where Paul yells at Reverend Mother Hellen revealing he’s the Kwisatz Haderach and he will never do her bidding and she cries “Jessica what have you done!?”
I'm still annoyed they took out the Gom Jabbar line. "I remember your gom jabbar, witch. Now you remember mine." It's a complete reversal of the power dynamic between them in the first book. Instead they opted for her parting shot at Jessica, "You of all people should know there are no sides".
I think they condensed it down to "SILENCE" and her whispering "abomination!" Which in this context feels like "a Kwisatz Haderach not under our control is an abomination!"
@@kuno3336 "Abomination" was a reference to Jessica's daughter, Alia, because the Bene Gesserit consider anyone born with the Other Memory of all the Reverend Mothers an abomination
@@quentontylerdoan in the book absolutely, but I meant in the film specifically, because she calls Paul an abomination immediately after he uses the Voice on her
@@kuno3336 I just rewatched it the other day, and when Mohiam says "Abomination," it immediately cuts to Jessica, which makes me believe that it really was directed at Alia. Sorry for the late response, I don't usually check my YT notifications
Right! Come to that where the hell is anything else in this book? Where the MENTATS?? Where is the spice the spices barely present anywhere! It's what changes Paul and awakens his sleeping gifts. Not the Water of Life the presence of spice and his bloodstream in the food in the air in the sand in the worm the worm is the spice the spice is the worm where the hell is that? And by the way in part two not even the worms are worth seeing it for
Leaving out Letto the second is one of those intercal pieces of the story that is so important it cannot be dismissed or done without. Instead they hint that Johnny would die. And later was born a couple of years after Alia! And Alia never seems to get born. She's 5 years old when she kills the baron. Lynch did this so much better. Frank Herbert said that he loved what David Lynch was doing with his baby. Frank Herbert would never have approved this script he would never have approved this movie. You can pretty all you want to you can make special effects and Great Sand all day long when you change the very essence of the film dismissed the very heart of the story and alter the Messiah then you have done something incredibly incredibly wrong I am so disappointed so incredibly inconsolably disappointed in this film
Whenever I watch some of these videos I find lots and lots of reasons to not describe subscribe to this channel. I was looking for what would be an obvious and honest review of both of the movies this in particular part 2 and this just isn't it. This isn't a review it's pandering.
There's a mentat in like the first couple scenes of the first movie. There's a bunch of them in both movies they just aren't called out as such. The guild is also mentioned on multiple occasions.
The big mistake Nowadays female characters have to always be angry to represent the strength of women. Chani was a character in the book who accompanied Paul on his rise and became the mother of his children as a concubine, now Zendaya will have her own movie because she is Chani empowered. I'm fed up with this cliché in the service of the absurd politics of inclusion. I refer to Liet Kynes, who was put as an Afro-American woman being a male character in the original work, the change is unnecessary.
We currently live in a woke society. Of course they’re gonna over empower women and swap gender and race. Faithfulness to the source material is out of the question if it doesn’t meet their narrative. I am so thankful “The Lord of the Rings” trilogy came out before all this bullshit.
In the book Liet Kynes, while dehydrated and dying, is killed by a worm. Also, the fight between Paul & jamis takes place in a sietch without stillsuits, which explains why Paul receives Jamis' water.
The only thing I was disappointed with was the dynamic between Paul and Chani. I feel like if they don't have a way to bring it back to canon, the third movie is going to be completely off the rails lore-wise.
I think somehow they'll get it together. I've heard that the actress doesn't really want to be a mother in the story, I really don't think it would be a big deal if the actress was replaced with someone more friendly with the series.
My biggest complaint with both movies is the costuming; in the book no one wore armor. Shields made armor irrelevant. And, as is mentioned in the video, the emperor didn't want his involvement known, so the sardaukar work harkonnen uniforms.
With shields you use blades to fight and obviously armour defends against the blades. Herbert has a few holes in his creation tbh. I love his work beyond imagination but honestly you could write a small book about exploitable or questionable concepts in the books. There is nothing wrong with villeneuve gently correcting an issue here or there.
@@broganatcanterburyrenaissa7169 she was also never a power-hungry ruthless person & was never an enemy of Chani! And don't even freaking get me started on what they did to Chani's character... 🤬
@@bignelly622002 Chani's character in the book was the classic "good wife". Paul is very obviously using her people to wage war on billions which will kill thousands of fremen, yet she somehow doesn't care cause of "love". In the movies she tries to stop him from that path because of love, and actually has fuckin agency
I wish they had explained how the personal shields reacted to Lasguns, thus explaining why sword and knife fighting was so prevalent and why the Harkonnen warriors turned their shields off.
I haven't seen the second one yet (waiting to get it on 4K Blu-Ray) but didn't they cover it in the first movie, where fast kinetic movements don't work on shields which is why "the slow blade penetrates the shield", Duncan Idaho's last stand notwithstanding
Ya that was both weird and too forced for the time span that it is supposed to take for Paul to become MoAdib and then to fully become Madib. That bugged me a bit
I loved the second movie, although a bit less than the first one. It's a good adaptation, but the Paul-Chani romance being changed this drastically has heavily affected the film, and possible sequels. I understand that the director went for a more explicit conflict between Chani and Paul, because the book is abundant with inner monologue and inner conflict, which of course we wouldn't be able to see on the screen. Book and movie spoilers ahead. I liked that Chani was given a more active role in the film, however it was at the cost of the portrayal of Paul. In the film, she opposes him and keeps him at arms length. She is distrustful. Again, its a nice adaptation given how Jessica was made to look much more manipulative, asserting Paul's position from within the Fremen society. But it makes it seem like she is just waiting to see if Paul will betray her and the Fremen, by abusing the prophecy to rise to power. She is defiant and critical of both Paul and Jessica in the film, whereas in the book she respects her as reverend mother way more than what is shown. The lack of the time skip, and Leto not being born (or killed), as well as Chani being present for the final confrontation are the main reasons I'm worried about their relationship and the direction of a possible sequel. Because their son isn't killed in the film, Paul is shown to have kinda betrayed Chani. She sees it as if he plotted it all out with his mother and Gurney. In the book, he really wants to avoid the jihad, but losing his son tips the scales. After their son dies, Chani understands Paul's decision to take revenge, and become emperor, which the film does not convey in that way- Instead, we are shown a scene with the atomic bombs, which is the trigger, the green light, that they can go to war. Lastly, the straw the breaks the camels back is the scene in the movie where Paul just walks in, insults the emperor, says he will take Irulan as his empress and become emperor himself, all the while Chani is present. In the book she isn't there, which is VERY important, because rather than be subject to his decision, as it is in the book, we are shown her reaction to this SECONDS AFTER he told her he will love her for as long as he breathes. But because Chani is built up to be more distrustful in the movie, she abandons Paul, instead of accepting this fact, although with much resentment. This becomes one of the most central plotpoints in Dune Messiah - Paul keeps telling Chani that he does not love Irulan, and keeps affirming his love to her constantly. Chani knows this, but can't help feeling resentful and guilty, especially because she can't get pregnant. The ending of the second film is a drastic showing of Chani's inner conflict. Instead of showing her as Paul's greatest ally, even in the face of betrayal and political machinations, she just runs away feeling betrayed.
Completely agree with the comment, loved the movie and many changes made sense for an adaptation, but everything about Chani was a bit off. I don't think they have much chemistry, and as you said, she is constantly at arms length and doubting him.
I think Dennis actually wrote and told the reason for this: Chani unlike the others is wary of Paul's power and doesn't support the Lisan-Al-Gaib prophecy they keep going for. He also mentioned that Frank Herbert wanted her to be more of a character who knows and doesn't just follow Paul blindly, but rather is wary of him and his ideals. Honestly I like this version of Chani more, she feels like a sad character who is clearly just manipulated for the sake of the Paradise that everyone hopes for and it also makes even more sense that because ultimately, that is what that all ways has been, Paul does bring war and Genocide to the Planet of Arrakis. I have faith Dennis, since he is a big fan of Dune books and I know that he will make a lot of changes in Dune Messiah so that it doesn't feel depressing
I did not like how Chani took off in the end or how they left out that she was the daughter of Leit Kynes. I also thought it was an odd choice not to have Alia as a child. I guess we will see what they do with Chani as she has a very specific destiny that is pivotal in Dune Messiah.
Chani's role was quite different overall compared to the book. Especially though her role I feel like the movie was a lot more blatant as a warning against fanaticism. While one could still see Paul as a typical hero at the end of the book, I think it would be pretty hard to do so after this movie. The warnings were there in the book too, of course, but a bit more subtle.
I saw Dune: Part Two in IMAX last night! It was the best movie I have ever seen in my life!!!! I will remember this theater experience forever! Everything about Part Two was absolutely phenomenal, from the story, to the acting to the incredible score by Hans Zimmer! This is honestly one of the best films of the decade, and one of my all time favorite movies!
As a film it was good. As an adaptation of the book, Dune: Part Two was terrible. The majority of the second half was like the fan faction of the 1984 version.
@@tzadik.oh hush. If it’s the best movies this person has seen then let it. Anyone can their own opinions even if you don’t like it. You don’t own their opinion buddy.
They did film scenes with him, but they were cut unfortunately. Denis Villeneuve says he doesn't like keeping deleted scenes but I don't care what he wants. He better release it or even better, a extended release.
No mention of the butlerian jihad. It would have been the root contrast point to emphasize dependence on spice which is caused by an anti-tech religious fundamentalism. that is the reason why bene gesserit is trying to build the most advanced human-supercomputer that would lead humanity out of the economic and political bottleneck. But it backfires just like the time when humanity wanted to build AI for the same reason and it backfired.
Yeah, kind of why the spice is important to everyone and the most important character in God Emperor Of Dune, but who cares, right? The movie had bald chicks and explosions! 🎇
Denis took a lot of the most gratifying subplots out (Jessica as a possible spy, Thufir Hawat and Gurney being turned against her through deception, etc.) and instead carves out time to make Jessica's character "stronger" (AKA a conniving protagonist and enemy of Chani?!) , make Stilgar into a Gimli-level clown (along with Gurney), and "exploring" Chani's character (as a one-dimensional angry action hero)? This move is a great spectacle, but only the book is a great work of fiction.
ITT: *A book-purists frothing rage* Only your first point has any merit, the rest is the impotent frothing mumblings of a book fundamentalist, which is ironic given Frank Herberts obvious theme of the books...
@@MrSmokinDragon I missed your first edit, but you've left some very compelling insights here, thx! Still, I can't help but feel that if, say, Gandalf was portrayed on film as gaslighting and manipulating poor Frodo like Jessica did the 'weak' Fremen, some book enjoyers (your "impotently frothing mumbling fundamentalists") would've been ...disappointed.
@@jessetodd4004with the obvious difference being that the BG are manipulators at heart, while the Maia er not. See, the LOTR fans would have been justified IF your scenario was the case, but I dare you to try and explain how the BG are NOT manipulators. Cool try though, better aim next time...
If I remember correctly he wasn't forced but rather convinced Lady Jessica was the Harkonnen spy, and not Yue, thus seeking revenge using the Baron as means to it, while the Baron feared his betrayal, keeping him in check with a poison for wich he keeps administring temporary antidote doses in Hawat's meals.
Just got back from seeing Part 2 and I have to say I doubt I'll see a more spectacular and thought provoking blockbuster this year, it's a masterpiece.
Most of the changes were generally fine for THIS story but makes alot in Messiah messy so I'm curious how they are going to adapt it when many of the plot lines have been changed
@@Jarviskun1 Chani was the bit I didn't like in this and the lack of depth to their relationship - without Leto's age when he is murdered, the length of the story felt very rushed - it was more than a few spice harvesters
Omitting the Space Guild and Navigators was a crucial part to explain why the Spice was important in the first place. That omission was a major part of the story that should have been included.
They increased Jessica's role but flattened her character in the process. She isn't more layered. She loses her complications in the second movie and becomes pure Bene Gesserit.
I missed the tension between Paul and Jessica. Which was replaced with him and Chani I guess to simplify things but in the book it makes things to powerful to see them really struggling while she and Alia are trying to support him but in ways he resents. I think there was maybe 1 or 2 scenes it brushed in the movie but not nearly as prominent as the book makes it.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Chani/Paul relationship in the movie lol. Like, it sort of puts "he loves her more than she loves him" vibes out there, when I always felt their love for each other and Chani's support/belief in him was a massive part of him becoming Freman/Emperor. I mean she *book spoilers* gives her life to give him children because she loves him that much*end spoilers*. But on the other hand, I sort of also feel like "you reap what you sow" with her in the movie, she kept him at arms length, frequenly doubted him and distrusted him, kept saying she would fight for HER people (as though he wasn't also), kept pushing him not to accept power (when it would have freed her people all the sooner) and was so angry with him for his choices when he did everything to help the Freman and fight for their cause and in the end did what he had to do to free Arakis for the Freman, nearly dying to save HER people, and she slaps him and storms off and is angry with him. I sort of wish they *book spoilers* kept baby Leto in the movie, would have been a good turning point for her to be like "Screw the prophecy, screw the propaganda, screw everything, you do whatever you have to do avenge our son" or something.*end spoiler* But, then again, reminding myself they changed the timeline and it's not like over a year but less than 9 months and she has every right to be distrustful of an outside after such a short time, idk. 30 seconds of dialogue at the end of the movie where he reaffirms exactly what sort of "wife" Irulan would be to him compared to Chani would have been my preferred ending, but it was a fantastic movie regardless.
No problem with chani leaving Paul at the end, I just hope it doesn’t complicate things for future movies, she’s the mother to Paul’s children in the book afterall who are important later on especially the Leto II
There's more than a few things they changed from the books and most really didn't hurt the overall story. There were/are a few that stands out for some of us who've read the series like The Lady Jessica seems overly emotional too many times. She may have broken her order's rules by having a boy(Paul) who was meant to be a girl she's still respected by her moth...Giaus Helen Mohiem. Paul telling his father he doesn't want to be the Duke of Caladan, yet Pual in the books was well prepared and very much accepted his role to continue House Atreides. That's just a few out of a few yet some changes were beneficial to the movie and others needed to happen. Piter de Vires, the Baron's mentat was not stoic and sinister, but twisted and straight up evil. Making him more stoic and calculated worked so damn well, and I wish his character had gotten more screen time, but oh well still a great change. One last example is with Chani. Chani never seemed to have taken a liking to Paul the very first time they met. That change where she's more or less pitying Paul never happened, but I liked it. Chani in the books is a fighter and capable as hell, but she also comes across as kind of meek. In the movies she seems to be more outwardly strong and capable and a bit more important than in Dune and Dune Messiah, but both characters are some of my favorites in the movie and books. In all, they made a movie that captures some of the mood of the books, but not entirely which, for me at least, seems to be a bit darker and grim with what will come to pass over the next 30,000 years, and at the same time leaving us on a cliffhanger with some events at the end of Chapter House Dune
I think the main reason the dinner scene didn't make the cut is that 90% of that scene in the books is told through thoughts. And the style of the book is that you get every character's thoughts. So there's a ton of subtext and things not said and nuances noticed that make it a great scene to read that would make it a really tough one to adapt without adding a lot of explanation. In addition to being a lot of the more local politics that don't end up being super relevant once the Harkonen's attack.
Dunkin Idaho played a much lessor role in the 1984 version. Duncan Idaho doesn't become a real thing in the story until the second book, when he comes back as a clone.
You should also do a comparison between the book and 1984 Dune and then 1984 Dune and 2021/24 Dune. Don't forget about the TV show to the book and then the TV show to 1984 and then the TV show to 2021/24. And all that is left after that is the old PC games and the modern games. But games are on a different channel.
They also completely left out "The Weirding Way" that Paul learns & also teaches to the Fremen. In addition if I remember correctly Liet Kynes was also Chani's father that they completely left out.
@@DiversDesign oh that's right! When they 1st meet & Jessica almost kills him! Before Paul fights Jamis. He calls her a "Weirding woman" or something doesn't he?
@@DiversDesign oh that's right! When they 1st meet & Jessica almost kills him! Before Paul fights Jamis. He calls her a "Weirding woman" or something doesn't he?
i would like that they tried to expand that universe. would love to dive deepe into the mythical aspects and for sure the galaxy it self. this is what i hoped we could get out of star wars with an well established world. but hey... at least we got dune and thx to all guys who take sci-fi stuff serious and make it feel organic. rly great movie experience
Well casting a toddler and make her say horrible lines and action isn't very nice.. even if it is 1 kid, nobody wants to see a child in such way. I'm glad he cast an adult who knew what she's getting into. Dune is a tough read and watch even for adults. A kid in that set would feel very disturbed.
@@rubalasuresh04 Alia IS a disturbed character. Previous versions of Dune have tackled that issue. What she does is important to the story. That's why I'm curious about Villeneuve's take.
I was surprised by the departure from that part of the book when I was in the theater. It was fairly faithful until the last 1/2 hour. Well, one could argue that showing a 2/3 years murderer child is NOT ok in 2024, I suppose. Of course David Lynch didn't hesitate to do that 😂
I was thrilled back in 84 when I heard that Dune had been made into a movie --- and APPALED when I actually saw it!!! There was almost nothing in the Lynch movie that was as I had envisioned from repeatedly reading the books. Decades later I heard that there was to be a new adaptation --- did I dare hope? Villeneuve did a spectacular job and I'm eagerly awaiting a chance to see part II. Your commentary on the changes was spot on.
True 84 dune was very different but it still had the heart and meaning for what made dune great this new movie series is nothing of what mad dune great it look great as a art picture but as a good movie or a true telling of dune it fails badly SciFi mini series did a really good job of keeping the heart of dune and its meanings. Denise has shown many times he doesn't care about source material at all just takes and changes everything
@@JDKobra Showed multiple times? Arrival, Dune and Blade Runner 2049 are the only ones with a source material and he made them all great. Denis is the reason why Duniverse is more relevant than ever and he treated it like no one else could or would in the future. He grew up with Dune and speaks about it with more passion than anyone could. You not understanding the complexities of a cinematic adaptation & the interpretation of the director is the issue.
The two movies themselves were fantastic. Very stunning visuals, an out-of-this world environment, and an epic soundtrack by Hans Zimmer. Now here are some changes in which I like and dislike: I don’t care for the age appearance of the Emperor since he’s already an old man. And I agree, he is an old man, and as this video put it his book counterpart looks much younger like say he’s in his thirties biologically. Here, he’s old chronologically and biologically. With the soundtrack of the films, I like how they added the throat singing during the battle preparation scene on Salusa Secundus in episode 1 to indicate how strong-willed and ruthless they are but is actually a blessing for the soldiers to stay strong in battle. Some of the things I did dislike is that the mentats’ roles in the movies were lacking and not very fleshed out. Thufir Hawat of House Atreides appeared in some scenes and then was absent after the meeting with Stilgar throughout the rest of the film. Piter isn’t any better, for he pretty much doesn’t do anything at all except for when he just stands around in a few scenes and walks with the Sardaukar Bashar on Salusa Secundus on recruiting the Sardaukar to attack the Atreides. I was expecting Piter to kill Dr. Yueh like in the book, but instead the Baron does it. There were also no guild navigators present at all. Sure they were mentioned in the first movie, but they were never shown. In addition, there was a scene where Margot Fenring tested Feyd-Rautha with the pain box like Reverend Mother Mohiam did with Paul in which I didn’t mind at all. I was also very thrilled to see Anya Taylor-Joy being in the second movie as Alia since she’s one of my favorite actresses. I wanted to see her take on the Baron during the climax of the second film, but I was really bummed that it didn’t happen, but it was Paul that did it instead. In the books, she’s an adult inside the body of a toddler, whereas in the past screen adaptations were played by child actresses. So I’m now starting to get the feeling that the idea of having a toddler with the intelligence of an adult seems kind of silly. Even though I was upset that I didn’t get to see enough Alia, her cameo appearance was just the greatest out of any movie cameo. And when she looks into the camera (though addressing Paul), she says the words “I love you”, which hit really hard and stole my heart, and I got really emotional while thinking back at the scene that I saw. So now I’m very excited to see her in this version. Like I said, we may not have gotten enough of her in Part 2, but I really love to see her play a larger role in the sequel. In my honest opinion, I think she would’ve been cast as Princess Irulan since she’s my suggested candidate and also kind of looks like an Irulan. So back to Alia, she stole the show…for less than a minute that is. And also stated in this video that Leto II wasn’t even born during the movie (possibly to avoid having another child who may as well be Leto II II (Leto the second, the second)). So now I’m starting to see why and how they made these changes. There were some I approved and some I strongly disapproved. But if there’s a third film coming up, I hope it’ll be better than the first two films and I would like to see Alia playing a bigger part in the franchise.
Liet Kynes is Chani's parent. Liet is almost godlike to the Fremen for the ability to change Arrakis through planetology; and in the book realizes that the worst thing that can happen is for a hero to appear.
Chani picking up a blade I could get behind but her whole faithless meh typical Zendaya attitude rubbed me the wrong way and made me dislike a book character I greatly enjoyed.
I didn't like how chani became a fighter and didn't have the kid , i feel they changed the role of her purposely for zendaya to be like a girl boss type
I can live with all those changes. Well, almost. OK, it's an adaptation. We all agree with that. But I don't understand Villeneuve's decision about Liet Kynes. He said in an interview that he wanted to give more screen time to powerful women. He did that with Chani and Lady Jessica. The gender swap was unnecessary in my opinion, especially given that in the book, Kynes is Chani's father.
Jessica doesn't have much pressence in the novel? Duke isnt affectionate toward her? "Quote" concubine? If you actially read the book i dont know how you would have this opinion.
I have to say I like the first movie a lot more than the second. There was a lot of good stuff, but I really didn't like the direction this took the Lady Jessica and Chani more than any other change. Fayed was also weird. -I never took book Jessica as a self-serving villain like I did in the movie. -I am also VERY dissatisfied with the way Chani developed and split from Paul. Breaks several part of the the story.
Another big difference is no mention of weirding way in new movies. Old movies completely changed it. It was pivotal in Paul being first accepted by fremen and then in the fremen being able to defeat the Sardukar.
the biggest change is no weirding way. That is how they trained up the Fremen to beat everyone. In the film the Fremen could have beaten the harkonen anytime they wanted to.
11:07 Hints? Bruh it goes through Dr. Yueh's entire thought process from when the Baren ordered him to do it, to barely keeping it together while having a conversation with Jessica
The acting and cinematography the cinematography especially we're amazing But I don't think any of us sat down for 2 hours and 45 minutes to watch anything other than a story we loved And they change the story Turning into a film that I could have loved but only liked It wasn't bad but it wasn't Dune It was beautiful to look at which is better than what we get for most movies I'm trying not to complain but I would be lying if I said I wasn't let down
Crazy that no mentats, the absence of the Spacing Guild and the weirding modules along with Paul's eventual surpassing of the weirding modules did not make this list.
@@ecm95 Mentats were touched upon in the first part, not the second part. They pretty much left out the Space Guild and Navigators, which are the most important part of why the Spice was so important for the Empire to function as a whole. They failed to explain that aspect of the story. So all those different Houses under the Empire, from the various planets spread all over the galaxy just happened to arrive at Arrakis at the same time. We just have to accept they can do that but not how they can do that. The Navigators fold space to bring passengers anywhere in the galaxy in an instant. They didn't explain that in either part one or part two of the new movie.
@@robertkarp2070 there were mentats on the harkonnen ship when feyd made rabban kiss his feet. They explained in the first one what the spice was for and and explained the guild(to a very base extent)
@@ecm95 They absolutely did not give the Mentats any show of their importance. Therefore they were pretty much non existent. They may have mentioned the Space Guild and Navigators but I sure don't recall it, so it wasn't enough to make an impression as to what they were all about and why they were the primary importance for Spice production in the first place.
The fact that Alia was not born yet in Part II put both movies into very short time frame to include some more details about Pauls training to become one of Fremens, also training Fremes "The Weirding Way" and turning them into formidable army, unless future fiziology of women si different
in the book Liet Kynes dies during a spice blow which is observed by Paul and Chani at sietchTabar and thinks "I am a desert creature, You see me, Father? I am a desert creature." at the end of Dune book, Paul threatens to kill all the makers, it was a threat to Guild Navigators not so much to the other houses because without spice the guild are blind, there is no commerce and thus a threat to other houses.
The dinner party was 100% required. Most of the 2 movies remove the universe forces on dune. It really detracted from importance of the spice and the planet.
The movie has three splendid points. 1 The ingenious SF settings offer spectacle & thrilling scenes. 2 The description of the whole interstellar civilization shows us a fascinating alternative future. 3 On the other, the dark side of the story tells us the need for AI-age techs, human uplift & democracy. I have high hopes for the director, excellently telling the original novel's message with modern language.
It's good that the new movies don't have to deal with the oddity of two characters named Leto II. One of the characters in a later book actually mentions that the second Leto II should have been named Leto III.
I read the novel. Saw the second movie yesterday, hoping it would be better than the 2021 part 1. I was expecting too much apparently as many significant details were screwed up to the point I was ever more nostalgic about David Lynch's screen adaptation. No justice to the book or respect to the source material; there was only going out of the way for needless pandering in the end.
I'm upset that Liet would be snuck up upon in the desert itself by the Harkonnen. It seems so sloppy. Also I don't recall them establishing Liet and Chani's relationship at all and being the one to talk with Paul about his/her dream of a green Arrakis.
I was very disappointed in the changes to Jessica and Alia, and I was especially disappointed in the ending. I bought tickets for Dune 2 well in advance and saw it opening day. I'll wait until Dune Messiah is streaming and I don't have to pay extra. I'm sure I'll end up watching it at some point, but my enthusiasm for it is not there at all and I'm not going out of my way to see it. I wanted to see Dune, and it feels like I only saw 1/3 of it after 2 movies. The Guild was all but eliminated from the movie, and their presence (and prescience) was absolutely critical to the end, as well as many plot points throughout the story. And all the cool sandworm footage was already in the trailers. But it doesn't matter, there's a loyal Fedaykin of true believers on the Internet who will heap praise and collectively downvote any remote criticism of the film. It's ironic how the online fan base embodies and emulates the Fremen's rabid devotion to Muad D'ib.
It's funny how just because you didn't like the movie you think it should be smashed down & downgraded. It's a movie, made for entertainment & storytelling - which it does a great job for the majority of audience. They will accept it because they like it. You don't have to if you didn't like.
@@mollywoodshots6503 It's funny how the post was asking for opinions on whether the changes were good or bad. I voiced my opinion that the changes were bad. That was the point of the post was to solicit feedback. But you seem to think that unless the feedback is positive, it should be withheld.
@@bassfever You can post your opinions, which will be given replies by others. That's how a UA-cam comment box works. If you don't want anyone to give replies, write your opinions in a diary and lock somewhere no one can see.
The look of both films is spectacular. Love it. Unfortunately, it kinda erased or re-wrote the pictures in my head that I got from reading the books in the early 90s. Neither Lynch’s film nor the Miniseries managed that. A statement to films visual power. Still a bit sad that it blasted my own imagination. And Jamis will now forever look like Babs Olusanmokun in my head. Such a strong presence on screen. Not sad about this at all, however. But it complicates things a bit because now I desperately hope that they’ll *never* have Joseph beam down to a desert environment. My brain would surely melt.
Thank you for the update, WatchMojo..!! I was completely captivated by Frank Herbert's "Dune." The rich world-building and intricate political dynamics drew me into a unique and fascinating universe. The depth of the characters, particularly Paul Atreides, allowed me to form a deep connection as he navigates complex relationships and personal growth while dealing with the weight of his destiny. 🥶
1:21 I think Villenueve seriously considered adapting Emperor Shadam from the novel. I think he just thought let's cast Walken again as Shadam as homage to Walken playing him in the 1980's
Maybe the main problem with the 1984 version of Dune is that it relied too heavily on exposition. That, and their ornithopters looked silly and unrealistic. I still like the design of the guild navigator as a cross between a cuttlefish and middle aged man with a smoking addiction.
Because I have not read the books, I cannot give a definitive say on the differences between both the book and the films. However, I have heard that the book was considered "unfilmable" as no medium used to bring Dune to life from its pages never made great success beyond cult followings. Denis Villeneuve's adaptation appears to, if you will forgive the pun, "hold water" in the face of both critics and audiences who go to see it. Both films are grand in scale, so it was a good idea to split the book into parts, as adapting the book into one movie would have been overkill. While it may have been a shame for characters and settings to have been changed, omitted, or rewritten, they were no doubt a necessary to keep up with the pace of the film and give more representation and show the character's arc as they change and evolve throughout the story.
For the people that are critiquing these movies, all you need to know is that Frank Herbert's family calls Denis Villeneuve's movie the best adapations made feom Dune. And for a movie called unadapatable, they are pretty damn good.
I'm usually a stickler for more literal interpretation but I thought Villeneuve's changes made the movie better in ways than the book in terms of being more direct about Herbert's main point about charismatic leaders. Not mentioned in your video is the lack of the Spacing Guild and Paul's threat to them which cows them. Instead, the other Great Houses refuse to honor Paul's claim and he unleashes the Fremen on them without much thought or conscience.
While you rightly point out that The Baron's nephews appearance is different in the film you failed to mention that the harkonnens are supposed to have red hair as does Jessica and Aali which hints at the fact that Jessica is his daughter. We did see this utilized to a certain extent and David Lynch's film though it was not commented on, but majorly downplayed in the miniseries and completely left out of the equation though we are certainly informed of the relationship here in these films
Everyone seems to be missing the rain storm. On a desert planet a VERY big plot point. Denis Villeneuve seems to be showing his creativity by coping the Sci-Fi (Sy-Fy) story.
As much as I loved Villeneuve's Dune overall, much of the changes occurred because of wokeness, pain and simple. Kynes is gender and race swapped. To her credit, Sharon Duncan-Brewster plays Kynes quite accurately. Chani is essentially a girl-boss, as is Lady Jessica (at least when it comes to Paul). The whole Northern liberal Fremen of which they make Chani (Zendaya portraying Zandaya) a part, vs the Southern fundamentalist believer Fremen of which her uncle, Stilgar, is a part. Stilgar, whom Chani is supposed to love, and who honors the beliefs held by the entirety of Fremen in the book. Zendaya's Chani is made to almost despise her uncle, Stilgar, by Dune Part Two. The nature of how Paul and Jessica's escape from their Harkonnen captors is also changed. PAUL is supposed to be the one who saves himself and his mother from death, but in this version, Jessica becomes the action heroine, and then berates Paul after she "does the saving". Thankfully these woke/modern audience moments didn't kill my love for this version overall, but the woke really need to just wake TFU.
I may be hallucinating, but AFAIK, Paul never had a first Leto II. As I remember Chani dies of childbirth giving birth to twins. Leto II and his sister (whose name I forgot). Guys, where does this take place?
Lynchisms in the new movies: 1. Psst! Bene Gesserit aren't telepathic. Pass it on. 2. Polluted Geidi Priime 3. Harkonnens are inhuman (either in behavior or appearance or both) 4. Kaitain 5. The Baron is Really into oil 6. The Emperor likes pyramids 7. The Baron flies (and now so do other people)
We sure see how well not sticking to the books worked out for that whole Foundation mess. I enjoyed seeing Dune Part 2 today, but some things kept rolling around my in my head... Thurfer? The Guild Navagators? CHOAM? Mentats? Ix? Gholas? Alia? "What have we done? You should have told us, the Water of Life changes both, you know. Don't try to impress, even our small children can do this. We concubines, history will call us wives." EDIT: Please don't misunderstand me, I really liked both movies. The tricky part of making a film adaptation of Dune is that the subtle nuances of the book are lost on those who haven't read the book, and for those who have enjoyed Herbert's telling of the story, no movie short of ten hours could ever really do the story justice. I don't think the story was butchered, but I also don't believe that producers and directors truly have the readers of the work in mind and are instead appealing to a mass audience hoping that their slant on the subject will generate more revenue and garnish more awards. At least they didn't turn Dune into a musical! 😱
@@Rob_F8F Uh, yeah... Kinda know that. I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. My point was, if they scrapped Duncan Idaho and Mentats and the Guild, my mind couldn't help but wonder what the hell is going to be in Part 3. Jar-Jar Binks?
@martinboyle9163 I would have love to see more of the Mentats and Guild. That said, Duncan exits at the book-appropriate point and doesn't come back until Dune Messiah. The Guild plays a larger role in Messiah as well. IIRC, Mentats do not play a large role in the following books. Am I mistaken? (Note: I'm just addressing the 6 original Frank Herbert books, not the Brian Herbert expansions)
Hey! Have you heard the voices around Thufir Hawat? Check the meeting scene in DUNE 1, when Thufir mentions the Harkonnen accounts. LISTEN, I was shocked, where is that voice coming from? You need to hear this, as I, never, noticed this before. It sounds like the voice. I wore headphones and checked 2 versions, it's so strange. (I copied this comment from another vid I saw, because I really need to know what this is.)
Were these changes for the better or worse? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
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First comment
@@Jesusfreak79 no one asked if you are
Love It WatchMojo.
Like any adaptations, there are some things that work well for a particular media than most. Video game adaptations alter the story in order to fit the gameplay and gaming mechanics. Film/TV series work well based on the run time, budget, the script, the direction, what they are able to visually tell, creative liberties, the performance of the actors, and whatever the studio wants them to tell. Overall, books are the only adaptations that can go further in detail with the storytelling, character development, engulfing your imagination with its literary style, and they are not restrained by runtime.
Worse.
"I don't like sand. It's coarse, rough and gets everywhere." - Anakin Dunewalker probably
LMAO
LOL. ...But Paul didn't knock up his babysitter.
"From my point of view, the Bene Gesserit are evil"!
I Understood That Reference🤓😎
Lol
Another HUGE difference between them is that Paul actually never meets the Baron in the books.
Not huge as it has no direct input on the overall plot.
Takong the kill from Alia makes her possession by him in children less impactful@@1183newman
you didn't read the book obviously... so much changed , and for what?.. the woke dei crowd that needs to be put out.
@@rustythecrown9317you did not just call this movie woke lmao what because they didn’t have a possessed 2 year old kill someone? Bro I know you’re probably going through a hard time and don’t know how to express your feelings so you get on UA-cam and spew all kinds of stupid shit but I highly implore you to seek some mental care.
Woooow I never realised that until now
There are so many differences that have really changed the story
1) the was little to no mention about the Spacing guild or the stranglehold they had on transport. How in the end it was their capitulation to Paul, who had the ability to destroy the Spice was the true defeat of the Empire. Without the Guild transporting everything all of the empire would collapse and they were outside the control of the Empire
2) although the Fremen had their prophecy their main focus was on changing the ecology of Dune. That underpinned everything in their lives. It was in the hidden southern region that they were establishing their green ecology. All of this was driven by the ecologist and his father before him. There was no division in the goals of the Fremen, they wanted a green planet.
3) Paul and Jessica time with the Fremen was condensed from 5 years to less than 6 months which destroyed great parts of the story- from Paul relationship with Chani, to the formation of the Fredaykin beginning with Hanah’s sons who were Paul’s responsibility for a year and who Paul taught
4) Thufir Hawat was not in the second movie and he was a big character in the book and his refusal to kill Paul for the emperor was led to the duel
5) the book themes were about the abuse of power; religion, economic, political and military and the movie only focused on the religion
6) Chani in the book is not a militant, she was the daughter of Liet-Kynes and followed his teachings on the ecology as did every Fremen. It isn’t until the 3rd book that the militant Fremen started rebelling against Paul and the Atreides and returned to their roots
7) all the water that the Fremen collected was for the purpose of greening Dune and they knew to a decagram exactly how much they needed to achieve their goals which was the reason that they would not touch the water in storage
8) no Count Fenring and his involvement in both getting a Harkonnen child from Fade Rutha as well as refusing to kill Paul in a duel when the emperor was defeated
9) Paul’s way of fighting was not Bene Gesserit it was the culmination of all of his teachers, what the Bene Gesserit taught was muscle and nerve control. The tactics he used to defeat the empire and Harkonnen were gorilla tactics taught to him by Duncan Idaho and others including the Fremen. And it takes years to learn the Bebe Gesserit muscle control technique - like learning a martial arts
10) Chani doesn’t leave Paul in fact Jessica tells her that although the princess will be his wife the princess will be less than even a concubine.
This adaptation is ok-good but it ends in a way that will be very hard to continue the story without even more issues. As a movie in itself it was a 8/10 for all the brilliant visuals as an adaptation of the book it get a 5/10. I would love to see Dune get the same treatment as Lord of the Rings, simply because of the scope of the story deserves it.
I can't believe this hasn't received more likes.
7) This was mentioned in Dune: Part 2 explicitly by Stilgar.
I think they did a great job with adapting to the book. They can't have a 4-5 hour long movie, and that's what would be required to do it justice. A movie will NEVER cover a book to its entirety.
The condensed timeline was really strange and caught me most off guard. Things always have to be cut but they could have kept the timeline without costing too much screen time.
The Villeneuve movies do make Paul a good man in that he refuses power until he has no other choice precisely because he knows what a monster he would become
Paul's also like that in the book, too. The brutal killing of his two-year-old son is what makes the reluctant hero go for blood so fervently.
Paul has a choice. Assuming his messianic role, manipulating the Fremen and using their fanaticism as a weapon is the only possible way to defeat the Harkonnens and the Emperor (a choice that obviously comes with the horrors of the holy war). But Paul has other choices, which involve giving up his vengeance and letting the Harkonnens win.
And that is in the book....
Same as in the books. Paul constantly tries to be the good guy overall, (with some small payback.) But the problem is the future is horrific no matter what path he chooses. He just tries to choose the less horrific one while saving humanity.
@@iamthesayyadina Paul didn't choose the less horrific path (he could avoid the Jihad by renouncing his revenge - for example by leaving Arrakis to become a Guild Navigator, as he has a vision at one point). He chooses the path that allows him to use the fanaticism of the Fremens, their Desert power, to defeat his enemies and avenge his father, which results in making holy war inevitable. And Paul does not act at all to save humanity, on the contrary (if you talk about the Golden path he does not see it in the first book, it never enters into his motivations in the first book and when he sees the Golden path, much later, he rejects it - so that's not why he makes the choices he makes in the first novel).
I need the 4-5 hour Director's Cut for both films 😬
The theatrical release is the Director's Cut. Denis has repeatedly said that the theatrical cut has the momentum that he wants. Adding scenes would slow that momentum.
@@Rob_F8F the theatrical release is crap.. fan fiction shouldn't be allowed in these cases.. do a good adaptation or stay away from the job.
@@rustythecrown9317try harder
Cope more.
Absolutely need a REAL directors cut with EVERYTHING intact and re-edited NOT for time.
Dr. Yueh’s betrayal is not only hinted in the book, but also confirmed in the first few chapters.
Right the Title of one of the first few chapters is Yueh the Betrayer
This is my biggest gripe with Denis’ adaptation. For those who didn’t read the book they might not even remember him as a character.
Yueh’s betrayal was so well written. You are upset that he would betray the great Atreides house. You feel bad for him because he actually loves the Atreides but is a broken man that can only think of getting revenge on the evil Baron who tortured and killed his wife (which he is fully aware of btw!) In the movie you can get the impression he was duped by the Baron. He wasn’t. He was on a suicide mission with no hope of ever seeing his wife again. And finally, the lack of exposition on the Imperial Conditioning that Suk doctors go through (Absolute loyalty and will not harm others I believe). This makes the Atreides completely overlook Dr. Yueh as a possible traitor. The pain the Baron put him through breaks his conditioning.
This added so much to the betrayal! I think Denis made a mistake excluding this in favor of better pacing. I think 10 more mins building this up would have brought so much more to the story.
Not just that, they cut the fact that Yueh's betrayal came out unexpected because the Doctors of the imperial school are mentally conditioned to serve and do no harm to their master and yet the Harkonnen managed to make him break this oath
And on a sidenote, both Paul and Lady Jessica actually blames and curse him even after they discovered his letter when he explained the situation.
@@NekoHibaCosplay yessir!!
@@RicksterrrrrrrIt would also serve to establish the Baron as a capable, devious enemy, instead of being a blob just floating around and greasing himself in the black goo all the time.
The biggest difference is the movie largely ignore the Guild.
I agree, that's my biggest grievance, otherwise I like the movie. The Space Guild and Navigators are the most important aspect of why the Spice was so important and they pretty much just left them out altogether. So no people can only guess about what a was so important about the spice.
I'm with you there. It's a huge part of the story. I'm guessing the scope of the movies isn't going to focus on that part at all.
@@robertkarp2070 In the beginning of the movie itself, spice is established as the resource used for Interstellar travel through film book exposition. Keeping that in mind, there is no guessing viewers need to do. The film itself isn't about any of that, it's about the dark journey of Paul who is a cog in the wheel set by Bene Gesserit
@@mollywoodshots6503 Yes but they don't show what they mean by it so it's just empty words. At least in the original movie they show you what they mean be enabling interspace travel.
@@robertkarp2070 The way it enables interspace travel has nothing to do with the plot or theme of the movie, so it's not really required. It would just turn out to be a world building filler that has nothing to do with the bottom line of the movie or characters.
Thufir Hawat doesn't make an appearance in Part 2 but in the book he becomes the Harkonnen mentat, and works to sow distrust among the Harkonnens.
I thought that should of been in the film
And he let himself die instead of attacking Paul once he learn he was Muad'Dib
He was removed from the film because vilenoob is a hack.
@@BPgamemaster12 he died in Pauls' arms.. kind of a big thing to kick out of a film... but fanfics are like that.
Yea Hawat's redemption moment was so good in the book. Can't understand why he was completely removed from part 2
I missed the part where Paul yells at Reverend Mother Hellen revealing he’s the Kwisatz Haderach and he will never do her bidding and she cries “Jessica what have you done!?”
I'm still annoyed they took out the Gom Jabbar line. "I remember your gom jabbar, witch. Now you remember mine."
It's a complete reversal of the power dynamic between them in the first book.
Instead they opted for her parting shot at Jessica, "You of all people should know there are no sides".
I think they condensed it down to "SILENCE" and her whispering "abomination!" Which in this context feels like "a Kwisatz Haderach not under our control is an abomination!"
@@kuno3336 "Abomination" was a reference to Jessica's daughter, Alia, because the Bene Gesserit consider anyone born with the Other Memory of all the Reverend Mothers an abomination
@@quentontylerdoan in the book absolutely, but I meant in the film specifically, because she calls Paul an abomination immediately after he uses the Voice on her
@@kuno3336 I just rewatched it the other day, and when Mohiam says "Abomination," it immediately cuts to Jessica, which makes me believe that it really was directed at Alia.
Sorry for the late response, I don't usually check my YT notifications
No poison needle
"I will bend like a reed in the wind."
"History will remember us as wives."
No mentats or spacing gild
TOTALLY!
Right! Come to that where the hell is anything else in this book? Where the MENTATS??
Where is the spice the spices barely present anywhere! It's what changes Paul and awakens his sleeping gifts. Not the Water of Life the presence of spice and his bloodstream in the food in the air in the sand in the worm the worm is the spice the spice is the worm where the hell is that? And by the way in part two not even the worms are worth seeing it for
Leaving out Letto the second is one of those intercal pieces of the story that is so important it cannot be dismissed or done without. Instead they hint that Johnny would die. And later was born a couple of years after Alia! And Alia never seems to get born. She's 5 years old when she kills the baron. Lynch did this so much better. Frank Herbert said that he loved what David Lynch was doing with his baby. Frank Herbert would never have approved this script he would never have approved this movie. You can pretty all you want to you can make special effects and Great Sand all day long when you change the very essence of the film dismissed the very heart of the story and alter the Messiah then you have done something incredibly incredibly wrong I am so disappointed so incredibly inconsolably disappointed in this film
Whenever I watch some of these videos I find lots and lots of reasons to not describe subscribe to this channel. I was looking for what would be an obvious and honest review of both of the movies this in particular part 2 and this just isn't it. This isn't a review it's pandering.
There's a mentat in like the first couple scenes of the first movie. There's a bunch of them in both movies they just aren't called out as such. The guild is also mentioned on multiple occasions.
The big mistake Nowadays female characters have to always be angry to represent the strength of women. Chani was a character in the book who accompanied Paul on his rise and became the mother of his children as a concubine, now Zendaya will have her own movie because she is Chani empowered. I'm fed up with this cliché in the service of the absurd politics of inclusion.
I refer to Liet Kynes, who was put as an Afro-American woman being a male character in the original work, the change is unnecessary.
Interesting
We currently live in a woke society. Of course they’re gonna over empower women and swap gender and race. Faithfulness to the source material is out of the question if it doesn’t meet their narrative. I am so thankful “The Lord of the Rings” trilogy came out before all this bullshit.
In the book Liet Kynes, while dehydrated and dying, is killed by a worm. Also, the fight between Paul & jamis takes place in a sietch without stillsuits, which explains why Paul receives Jamis' water.
In the books Dr Kynes is blown up by the pre-spice mass.
The only thing I was disappointed with was the dynamic between Paul and Chani. I feel like if they don't have a way to bring it back to canon, the third movie is going to be completely off the rails lore-wise.
I think somehow they'll get it together. I've heard that the actress doesn't really want to be a mother in the story, I really don't think it would be a big deal if the actress was replaced with someone more friendly with the series.
The ONLY thing?... it's a pile of trash ...you missed too much.
I agree. To delete one Leto II was expedient; to delete the second Leto II would derail the sequels.
@@bradmenpes809 hopefully vilenoob is never allowed near them.
Paul literally said in the movie “she will understand in the end” he knows she will join him eventually 😊
My biggest complaint with both movies is the costuming; in the book no one wore armor. Shields made armor irrelevant. And, as is mentioned in the video, the emperor didn't want his involvement known, so the sardaukar work harkonnen uniforms.
With shields you use blades to fight and obviously armour defends against the blades. Herbert has a few holes in his creation tbh. I love his work beyond imagination but honestly you could write a small book about exploitable or questionable concepts in the books. There is nothing wrong with villeneuve gently correcting an issue here or there.
If emperor's scenario is for Atreides total annihilation, I think they don't need disguise since there'll be no witnesses anyway
Ok..ok..has this person even read the book?? Lady Jessica is very prominent and layered.
For real! I was like what the heck is she talking about!? Jessica was a huge, complex, & extremely important character in the book.
@@bignelly622002Thank you!! I'm not crazy
@@broganatcanterburyrenaissa7169 she was also never a power-hungry ruthless person & was never an enemy of Chani! And don't even freaking get me started on what they did to Chani's character... 🤬
@@bignelly622002ITT: *A book-purists frothing rage*
@@bignelly622002 Chani's character in the book was the classic "good wife". Paul is very obviously using her people to wage war on billions which will kill thousands of fremen, yet she somehow doesn't care cause of "love". In the movies she tries to stop him from that path because of love, and actually has fuckin agency
I wish they had explained how the personal shields reacted to Lasguns, thus explaining why sword and knife fighting was so prevalent and why the Harkonnen warriors turned their shields off.
I haven't seen the second one yet (waiting to get it on 4K Blu-Ray) but didn't they cover it in the first movie, where fast kinetic movements don't work on shields which is why "the slow blade penetrates the shield", Duncan Idaho's last stand notwithstanding
The time span, it feels like it's only been a few months in the film instead of few years, and Lady Jessica is stil pregnant at the end.
Ya that was both weird and too forced for the time span that it is supposed to take for Paul to become MoAdib and then to fully become Madib. That bugged me a bit
That baby celebrated it's 4th birthday in utero. She gonna be powerful AF when she emerges at 21.
I loved the second movie, although a bit less than the first one. It's a good adaptation, but the Paul-Chani romance being changed this drastically has heavily affected the film, and possible sequels. I understand that the director went for a more explicit conflict between Chani and Paul, because the book is abundant with inner monologue and inner conflict, which of course we wouldn't be able to see on the screen. Book and movie spoilers ahead.
I liked that Chani was given a more active role in the film, however it was at the cost of the portrayal of Paul. In the film, she opposes him and keeps him at arms length. She is distrustful. Again, its a nice adaptation given how Jessica was made to look much more manipulative, asserting Paul's position from within the Fremen society. But it makes it seem like she is just waiting to see if Paul will betray her and the Fremen, by abusing the prophecy to rise to power. She is defiant and critical of both Paul and Jessica in the film, whereas in the book she respects her as reverend mother way more than what is shown.
The lack of the time skip, and Leto not being born (or killed), as well as Chani being present for the final confrontation are the main reasons I'm worried about their relationship and the direction of a possible sequel. Because their son isn't killed in the film, Paul is shown to have kinda betrayed Chani. She sees it as if he plotted it all out with his mother and Gurney. In the book, he really wants to avoid the jihad, but losing his son tips the scales. After their son dies, Chani understands Paul's decision to take revenge, and become emperor, which the film does not convey in that way- Instead, we are shown a scene with the atomic bombs, which is the trigger, the green light, that they can go to war.
Lastly, the straw the breaks the camels back is the scene in the movie where Paul just walks in, insults the emperor, says he will take Irulan as his empress and become emperor himself, all the while Chani is present. In the book she isn't there, which is VERY important, because rather than be subject to his decision, as it is in the book, we are shown her reaction to this SECONDS AFTER he told her he will love her for as long as he breathes. But because Chani is built up to be more distrustful in the movie, she abandons Paul, instead of accepting this fact, although with much resentment. This becomes one of the most central plotpoints in Dune Messiah - Paul keeps telling Chani that he does not love Irulan, and keeps affirming his love to her constantly. Chani knows this, but can't help feeling resentful and guilty, especially because she can't get pregnant. The ending of the second film is a drastic showing of Chani's inner conflict. Instead of showing her as Paul's greatest ally, even in the face of betrayal and political machinations, she just runs away feeling betrayed.
Completely agree with the comment, loved the movie and many changes made sense for an adaptation, but everything about Chani was a bit off. I don't think they have much chemistry, and as you said, she is constantly at arms length and doubting him.
I think Dennis actually wrote and told the reason for this: Chani unlike the others is wary of Paul's power and doesn't support the Lisan-Al-Gaib prophecy they keep going for. He also mentioned that Frank Herbert wanted her to be more of a character who knows and doesn't just follow Paul blindly, but rather is wary of him and his ideals. Honestly I like this version of Chani more, she feels like a sad character who is clearly just manipulated for the sake of the Paradise that everyone hopes for and it also makes even more sense that because ultimately, that is what that all ways has been, Paul does bring war and Genocide to the Planet of Arrakis. I have faith Dennis, since he is a big fan of Dune books and I know that he will make a lot of changes in Dune Messiah so that it doesn't feel depressing
@@TheLivingThanos not following someone blindly =/= being whatever the f*ck Chani in the movie was
I did not like how Chani took off in the end or how they left out that she was the daughter of Leit Kynes. I also thought it was an odd choice not to have Alia as a child. I guess we will see what they do with Chani as she has a very specific destiny that is pivotal in Dune Messiah.
Seconded! One of the major unfortunate changes
Chani's role was quite different overall compared to the book. Especially though her role I feel like the movie was a lot more blatant as a warning against fanaticism. While one could still see Paul as a typical hero at the end of the book, I think it would be pretty hard to do so after this movie. The warnings were there in the book too, of course, but a bit more subtle.
I saw Dune: Part Two in IMAX last night! It was the best movie I have ever seen in my life!!!! I will remember this theater experience forever! Everything about Part Two was absolutely phenomenal, from the story, to the acting to the incredible score by Hans Zimmer! This is honestly one of the best films of the decade, and one of my all time favorite movies!
Same. It was loud in the front seats tho. My ears will be ringing for the next 2 weeks.
I just saw it last night in IMAX and I agree with everything you’re saying. 😊
As a film it was good. As an adaptation of the book, Dune: Part Two was terrible. The majority of the second half was like the fan faction of the 1984 version.
@@tzadik.oh hush. If it’s the best movies this person has seen then let it. Anyone can their own opinions even if you don’t like it. You don’t own their opinion buddy.
@@tzadik. If you seek to play play the role of the snide intellectual, please get your spelling correct.
Sad there was no Count Fenring lol
They did film scenes with him, but they were cut unfortunately.
Denis Villeneuve says he doesn't like keeping deleted scenes but I don't care what he wants. He better release it or even better, a extended release.
An almost Kwisaz Haderach. The Emperors assassin. Paul was unable to see him in visions.
No mention of the butlerian jihad. It would have been the root contrast point to emphasize dependence on spice which is caused by an anti-tech religious fundamentalism. that is the reason why bene gesserit is trying to build the most advanced human-supercomputer that would lead humanity out of the economic and political bottleneck. But it backfires just like the time when humanity wanted to build AI for the same reason and it backfired.
Uh you missed Duncan's death and the Guild navigators.
Yeah, kind of why the spice is important to everyone and the most important character in God Emperor Of Dune, but who cares, right? The movie had bald chicks and explosions! 🎇
Yeah, there were no guild navigators, and it would’ve been cool if we would’ve seen them in the films.
We should not see the guild navigators yet
@@chrisinnes2128???
I can't wait to see Duncans in the sequels.
cant wait for Dune part 3 in 2028
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
*2030
Liets sex change was the LEAST of the changes. But the death was extremely stupid!
Liet Kynes died during a spice blow . . in the book
Denis took a lot of the most gratifying subplots out (Jessica as a possible spy, Thufir Hawat and Gurney being turned against her through deception, etc.) and instead carves out time to make Jessica's character "stronger" (AKA a conniving protagonist and enemy of Chani?!) , make Stilgar into a Gimli-level clown (along with Gurney), and "exploring" Chani's character (as a one-dimensional angry action hero)? This move is a great spectacle, but only the book is a great work of fiction.
I was pretty disappointed they cut Hawat out of Part 2 I felt his story was pretty compelling in the book.
Right, the book is so much much better
ITT: *A book-purists frothing rage*
Only your first point has any merit, the rest is the impotent frothing mumblings of a book fundamentalist, which is ironic given Frank Herberts obvious theme of the books...
@@MrSmokinDragon I missed your first edit, but you've left some very compelling insights here, thx! Still, I can't help but feel that if, say, Gandalf was portrayed on film as gaslighting and manipulating poor Frodo like Jessica did the 'weak' Fremen, some book enjoyers (your "impotently frothing mumbling fundamentalists") would've been ...disappointed.
@@jessetodd4004with the obvious difference being that the BG are manipulators at heart, while the Maia er not. See, the LOTR fans would have been justified IF your scenario was the case, but I dare you to try and explain how the BG are NOT manipulators. Cool try though, better aim next time...
DUNE: PART TWO is a solid 8/10.
Slow paced but great. Best of 2024 until now. The villain was great. And the finale was phenomenal.
Another thing that was cut was how Hawat survived the attack on House Atreides and was forced to work for the Harkonnens.
If I remember correctly he wasn't forced but rather convinced Lady Jessica was the Harkonnen spy, and not Yue, thus seeking revenge using the Baron as means to it, while the Baron feared his betrayal, keeping him in check with a poison for wich he keeps administring temporary antidote doses in Hawat's meals.
Just got back from seeing Part 2 and I have to say I doubt I'll see a more spectacular and thought provoking blockbuster this year, it's a masterpiece.
You forgot to mention that the costumes and sets from the 90s miniseries were sponsored by Quality Street chocolates..
Most of these changes made sense to me and nothing major seems to have been lost, besides maybe the dinner scene.
you need to read the books again
Nah they really messed up with Chani not having a kid already because it’s a big issue for Paul that he can’t birth an heir with her.
Most of the changes were generally fine for THIS story but makes alot in Messiah messy so I'm curious how they are going to adapt it when many of the plot lines have been changed
@@Jarviskun1 Chani was the bit I didn't like in this and the lack of depth to their relationship - without Leto's age when he is murdered, the length of the story felt very rushed - it was more than a few spice harvesters
Omitting the Space Guild and Navigators was a crucial part to explain why the Spice was important in the first place. That omission was a major part of the story that should have been included.
You left out the Fremen’s lack of water discipline & a potential Harkanon heir in Feud Raltha’s unborn child
Yes they are frequently outdoors with their stillsuits open and cry.
Didn't you hear Margot Fenring say "The Bloodline Is Secured"?
They increased Jessica's role but flattened her character in the process. She isn't more layered. She loses her complications in the second movie and becomes pure Bene Gesserit.
I missed the tension between Paul and Jessica. Which was replaced with him and Chani I guess to simplify things but in the book it makes things to powerful to see them really struggling while she and Alia are trying to support him but in ways he resents. I think there was maybe 1 or 2 scenes it brushed in the movie but not nearly as prominent as the book makes it.
@@billiealexander3480LOL - there was plenty of tension between them in the movies, but you just chose to ignore it...
They never get Jessica right in the adaptations, it's annoying
The Dune miniseries did a decent job.@@raffi_veiga
I have a love/hate relationship with the Chani/Paul relationship in the movie lol.
Like, it sort of puts "he loves her more than she loves him" vibes out there, when I always felt their love for each other and Chani's support/belief in him was a massive part of him becoming Freman/Emperor. I mean she *book spoilers* gives her life to give him children because she loves him that much*end spoilers*. But on the other hand, I sort of also feel like "you reap what you sow" with her in the movie, she kept him at arms length, frequenly doubted him and distrusted him, kept saying she would fight for HER people (as though he wasn't also), kept pushing him not to accept power (when it would have freed her people all the sooner) and was so angry with him for his choices when he did everything to help the Freman and fight for their cause and in the end did what he had to do to free Arakis for the Freman, nearly dying to save HER people, and she slaps him and storms off and is angry with him. I sort of wish they *book spoilers* kept baby Leto in the movie, would have been a good turning point for her to be like "Screw the prophecy, screw the propaganda, screw everything, you do whatever you have to do avenge our son" or something.*end spoiler* But, then again, reminding myself they changed the timeline and it's not like over a year but less than 9 months and she has every right to be distrustful of an outside after such a short time, idk. 30 seconds of dialogue at the end of the movie where he reaffirms exactly what sort of "wife" Irulan would be to him compared to Chani would have been my preferred ending, but it was a fantastic movie regardless.
No problem with chani leaving Paul at the end, I just hope it doesn’t complicate things for future movies, she’s the mother to Paul’s children in the book afterall who are important later on especially the Leto II
Chani is already pregnant. She will have the children in the desert. She will return with her Fremen born children to take leadership.
If Villeneuve does get his last part out, he’ll definitely keep her fate intact. They already gave Paul the visions of what can happen to her
"second Leto II" is wild
@@Evil_Vegan yeah if you inspired our favorite 40k emporer, you have to be wild😂
@Evil_Vegan then he becomes a sand worm God
"hes psychotic" another gem of hollywood dialog
There's more than a few things they changed from the books and most really didn't hurt the overall story. There were/are a few that stands out for some of us who've read the series like The Lady Jessica seems overly emotional too many times. She may have broken her order's rules by having a boy(Paul) who was meant to be a girl she's still respected by her moth...Giaus Helen Mohiem. Paul telling his father he doesn't want to be the Duke of Caladan, yet Pual in the books was well prepared and very much accepted his role to continue House Atreides. That's just a few out of a few yet some changes were beneficial to the movie and others needed to happen.
Piter de Vires, the Baron's mentat was not stoic and sinister, but twisted and straight up evil. Making him more stoic and calculated worked so damn well, and I wish his character had gotten more screen time, but oh well still a great change. One last example is with Chani. Chani never seemed to have taken a liking to Paul the very first time they met. That change where she's more or less pitying Paul never happened, but I liked it. Chani in the books is a fighter and capable as hell, but she also comes across as kind of meek. In the movies she seems to be more outwardly strong and capable and a bit more important than in Dune and Dune Messiah, but both characters are some of my favorites in the movie and books. In all, they made a movie that captures some of the mood of the books, but not entirely which, for me at least, seems to be a bit darker and grim with what will come to pass over the next 30,000 years, and at the same time leaving us on a cliffhanger with some events at the end of Chapter House Dune
I think the main reason the dinner scene didn't make the cut is that 90% of that scene in the books is told through thoughts. And the style of the book is that you get every character's thoughts. So there's a ton of subtext and things not said and nuances noticed that make it a great scene to read that would make it a really tough one to adapt without adding a lot of explanation. In addition to being a lot of the more local politics that don't end up being super relevant once the Harkonen's attack.
Also, a lot more emphasis on Duncan Idaho. In the book, most of the buddy, buddy interaction/relationship was with Gurney
Dunkin Idaho played a much lessor role in the 1984 version. Duncan Idaho doesn't become a real thing in the story until the second book, when he comes back as a clone.
I think this was more thourgh a casting choice of Duncan, due to how much most ppl love Jason, althought Josh Brolin isnt bad either
You should also do a comparison between the book and 1984 Dune and then 1984 Dune and 2021/24 Dune. Don't forget about the TV show to the book and then the TV show to 1984 and then the TV show to 2021/24. And all that is left after that is the old PC games and the modern games. But games are on a different channel.
My bro has the Avalon Hill board game of Dune. It's closer to the book than anything I've seen.
They also completely left out "The Weirding Way" that Paul learns & also teaches to the Fremen.
In addition if I remember correctly Liet Kynes was also Chani's father that they completely left out.
That's true. I was surprised the Fremen didn't use the weirding way (let alone learn/train from Paul).
@@vincestapels2022 Yup. I kept waiting for it but nope, that was one of there biggest & most unique strengths
Correct. The "Weirding way" was the actual reason Jessica and Paul got accepted by Stilgar and Fremen. Not the religious bits.
@@DiversDesign oh that's right! When they 1st meet & Jessica almost kills him! Before Paul fights Jamis. He calls her a "Weirding woman" or something doesn't he?
@@DiversDesign oh that's right! When they 1st meet & Jessica almost kills him! Before Paul fights Jamis. He calls her a "Weirding woman" or something doesn't he?
i would like that they tried to expand that universe. would love to dive deepe into the mythical aspects and for sure the galaxy it self. this is what i hoped we could get out of star wars with an well established world. but hey... at least we got dune and thx to all guys who take sci-fi stuff serious and make it feel organic. rly great movie experience
I'd be curious to know why Villeneuve chose not to have Alia kill the Baron.
Yeah I wonder that too like how they are going to pull that off if doing children of dune.
Well casting a toddler and make her say horrible lines and action isn't very nice.. even if it is 1 kid, nobody wants to see a child in such way. I'm glad he cast an adult who knew what she's getting into. Dune is a tough read and watch even for adults. A kid in that set would feel very disturbed.
@@rubalasuresh04 Alia IS a disturbed character. Previous versions of Dune have tackled that issue. What she does is important to the story. That's why I'm curious about Villeneuve's take.
I assumed that fetus Alia would take over Jessica's body briefly and have her kill the Baron.
I was surprised by the departure from that part of the book when I was in the theater. It was fairly faithful until the last 1/2 hour. Well, one could argue that showing a 2/3 years murderer child is NOT ok in 2024, I suppose. Of course David Lynch didn't hesitate to do that 😂
I think the biggest difference is that in the book Paul actually does see the future, whereas in the movie they portray it more as him playing a role
I was thrilled back in 84 when I heard that Dune had been made into a movie --- and APPALED when I actually saw it!!! There was almost nothing in the Lynch movie that was as I had envisioned from repeatedly reading the books. Decades later I heard that there was to be a new adaptation --- did I dare hope? Villeneuve did a spectacular job and I'm eagerly awaiting a chance to see part II. Your commentary on the changes was spot on.
True 84 dune was very different but it still had the heart and meaning for what made dune great this new movie series is nothing of what mad dune great it look great as a art picture but as a good movie or a true telling of dune it fails badly SciFi mini series did a really good job of keeping the heart of dune and its meanings. Denise has shown many times he doesn't care about source material at all just takes and changes everything
@@JDKobra Showed multiple times? Arrival, Dune and Blade Runner 2049 are the only ones with a source material and he made them all great. Denis is the reason why Duniverse is more relevant than ever and he treated it like no one else could or would in the future. He grew up with Dune and speaks about it with more passion than anyone could. You not understanding the complexities of a cinematic adaptation & the interpretation of the director is the issue.
The two movies themselves were fantastic. Very stunning visuals, an out-of-this world environment, and an epic soundtrack by Hans Zimmer. Now here are some changes in which I like and dislike: I don’t care for the age appearance of the Emperor since he’s already an old man. And I agree, he is an old man, and as this video put it his book counterpart looks much younger like say he’s in his thirties biologically. Here, he’s old chronologically and biologically. With the soundtrack of the films, I like how they added the throat singing during the battle preparation scene on Salusa Secundus in episode 1 to indicate how strong-willed and ruthless they are but is actually a blessing for the soldiers to stay strong in battle. Some of the things I did dislike is that the mentats’ roles in the movies were lacking and not very fleshed out. Thufir Hawat of House Atreides appeared in some scenes and then was absent after the meeting with Stilgar throughout the rest of the film. Piter isn’t any better, for he pretty much doesn’t do anything at all except for when he just stands around in a few scenes and walks with the Sardaukar Bashar on Salusa Secundus on recruiting the Sardaukar to attack the Atreides. I was expecting Piter to kill Dr. Yueh like in the book, but instead the Baron does it. There were also no guild navigators present at all. Sure they were mentioned in the first movie, but they were never shown. In addition, there was a scene where Margot Fenring tested Feyd-Rautha with the pain box like Reverend Mother Mohiam did with Paul in which I didn’t mind at all. I was also very thrilled to see Anya Taylor-Joy being in the second movie as Alia since she’s one of my favorite actresses. I wanted to see her take on the Baron during the climax of the second film, but I was really bummed that it didn’t happen, but it was Paul that did it instead. In the books, she’s an adult inside the body of a toddler, whereas in the past screen adaptations were played by child actresses. So I’m now starting to get the feeling that the idea of having a toddler with the intelligence of an adult seems kind of silly. Even though I was upset that I didn’t get to see enough Alia, her cameo appearance was just the greatest out of any movie cameo. And when she looks into the camera (though addressing Paul), she says the words “I love you”, which hit really hard and stole my heart, and I got really emotional while thinking back at the scene that I saw. So now I’m very excited to see her in this version. Like I said, we may not have gotten enough of her in Part 2, but I really love to see her play a larger role in the sequel. In my honest opinion, I think she would’ve been cast as Princess Irulan since she’s my suggested candidate and also kind of looks like an Irulan. So back to Alia, she stole the show…for less than a minute that is. And also stated in this video that Leto II wasn’t even born during the movie (possibly to avoid having another child who may as well be Leto II II (Leto the second, the second)). So now I’m starting to see why and how they made these changes. There were some I approved and some I strongly disapproved. But if there’s a third film coming up, I hope it’ll be better than the first two films and I would like to see Alia playing a bigger part in the franchise.
Liet Kynes is Chani's parent. Liet is almost godlike to the Fremen for the ability to change Arrakis through planetology; and in the book realizes that the worst thing that can happen is for a hero to appear.
Chani's change is her faith in Paul make any true Dune fan furious! Chani never doubts Paul nor do you see her pick up a blade!
Chani picking up a blade I could get behind but her whole faithless meh typical Zendaya attitude rubbed me the wrong way and made me dislike a book character I greatly enjoyed.
That change is much more sencefull - Paul-Usul who she loved died and was replaced by Prophet, who loves applause and power.
Chani kills a bunch of people in the book
Paul: I’m not the Lisan-Al-Gaib!
Stilgar: I say that you are the Lisan-Al-Gaib, and I should know! I followed a few!
I didn't like how chani became a fighter and didn't have the kid , i feel they changed the role of her purposely for zendaya to be like a girl boss type
I watched both movies back-to-back and I actually liked them. Looking forward to the third.
I do hope the third one will be better than the first two movies.
@@brycecarroll9665agree
@@brycecarroll9665 Me too!
I can live with all those changes. Well, almost. OK, it's an adaptation. We all agree with that. But I don't understand Villeneuve's decision about Liet Kynes. He said in an interview that he wanted to give more screen time to powerful women. He did that with Chani and Lady Jessica. The gender swap was unnecessary in my opinion, especially given that in the book, Kynes is Chani's father.
Jessica doesn't have much pressence in the novel? Duke isnt affectionate toward her? "Quote" concubine? If you actially read the book i dont know how you would have this opinion.
Preach! They obviously didn't read the book lol
I have to say I like the first movie a lot more than the second. There was a lot of good stuff, but I really didn't like the direction this took the Lady Jessica and Chani more than any other change. Fayed was also weird.
-I never took book Jessica as a self-serving villain like I did in the movie.
-I am also VERY dissatisfied with the way Chani developed and split from Paul. Breaks several part of the the story.
I kinda like the Chani change at the end, but wonder how it might affect the third movie. The change certainly gives the character more agency.
I miss Harrah character (Paul's first wife), she had a small role in the book but was a nice supporting person
Jamis' wife, Paul accepted her as servant.
Another big difference is no mention of weirding way in new movies. Old movies completely changed it. It was pivotal in Paul being first accepted by fremen and then in the fremen being able to defeat the Sardukar.
the biggest change is no weirding way. That is how they trained up the Fremen to beat everyone. In the film the Fremen could have beaten the harkonen anytime they wanted to.
Cutting out Count Fenring was a mistake, especially since Jeff Goldblum was BORN to play him. This is why we live in the worst timeline
11:07 Hints? Bruh it goes through Dr. Yueh's entire thought process from when the Baren ordered him to do it, to barely keeping it together while having a conversation with Jessica
The acting and cinematography
the cinematography especially we're amazing
But I don't think any of us sat down for 2 hours and 45 minutes to watch anything other than a story we loved
And they change the story
Turning into a film that I could have loved but only liked
It wasn't bad but it wasn't Dune
It was beautiful to look at
which is better than what we get for most movies
I'm trying not to complain but I would be lying if I said I wasn't let down
Crazy that no mentats, the absence of the Spacing Guild and the weirding modules along with Paul's eventual surpassing of the weirding modules did not make this list.
There were mentats in both movies and the spacing guild is mentioned multiple times.
I'm sure there are mentats in the books, I've been reading them
@@ecm95 Mentats were touched upon in the first part, not the second part. They pretty much left out the Space Guild and Navigators, which are the most important part of why the Spice was so important for the Empire to function as a whole. They failed to explain that aspect of the story. So all those different Houses under the Empire, from the various planets spread all over the galaxy just happened to arrive at Arrakis at the same time. We just have to accept they can do that but not how they can do that. The Navigators fold space to bring passengers anywhere in the galaxy in an instant. They didn't explain that in either part one or part two of the new movie.
@@robertkarp2070 there were mentats on the harkonnen ship when feyd made rabban kiss his feet. They explained in the first one what the spice was for and and explained the guild(to a very base extent)
@@ecm95 They absolutely did not give the Mentats any show of their importance. Therefore they were pretty much non existent. They may have mentioned the Space Guild and Navigators but I sure don't recall it, so it wasn't enough to make an impression as to what they were all about and why they were the primary importance for Spice production in the first place.
The fact that Alia was not born yet in Part II put both movies into very short time frame to include some more details about Pauls training to become one of Fremens, also training Fremes "The Weirding Way" and turning them into formidable army, unless future fiziology of women si different
I don't like that they took out Paul crying after killing Jamis. It is a huge piece of the puzzle how the Fremen came to respect Paul.
in the book Liet Kynes dies during a spice blow which is observed by Paul and Chani at sietchTabar and thinks "I am a desert creature, You see me, Father? I am a desert creature."
at the end of Dune book, Paul threatens to kill all the makers, it was a threat to Guild Navigators not so much to the other houses because without spice the guild are blind, there is no commerce and thus a threat to other houses.
The dinner party was 100% required. Most of the 2 movies remove the universe forces on dune. It really detracted from importance of the spice and the planet.
The movie has three splendid points. 1 The ingenious SF settings offer spectacle & thrilling scenes.
2 The description of the whole interstellar civilization shows us a fascinating alternative future.
3 On the other, the dark side of the story tells us the need for AI-age techs, human uplift & democracy.
I have high hopes for the director, excellently telling the original novel's message with modern language.
It's good that the new movies don't have to deal with the oddity of two characters named Leto II. One of the characters in a later book actually mentions that the second Leto II should have been named Leto III.
Also forgot to mention Harah, Jamis' wife who became Paul's servant after he beat him in the duel
You can find the deleted Harah scenes from the 1984 film on UA-cam.
I thought Paul became responsible to take care of her by making her his wife or servant and care for her children
I read the novel. Saw the second movie yesterday, hoping it would be better than the 2021 part 1. I was expecting too much apparently as many significant details were screwed up to the point I was ever more nostalgic about David Lynch's screen adaptation. No justice to the book or respect to the source material; there was only going out of the way for needless pandering in the end.
I'm upset that Liet would be snuck up upon in the desert itself by the Harkonnen. It seems so sloppy. Also I don't recall them establishing Liet and Chani's relationship at all and being the one to talk with Paul about his/her dream of a green Arrakis.
I was very disappointed in the changes to Jessica and Alia, and I was especially disappointed in the ending. I bought tickets for Dune 2 well in advance and saw it opening day. I'll wait until Dune Messiah is streaming and I don't have to pay extra. I'm sure I'll end up watching it at some point, but my enthusiasm for it is not there at all and I'm not going out of my way to see it. I wanted to see Dune, and it feels like I only saw 1/3 of it after 2 movies. The Guild was all but eliminated from the movie, and their presence (and prescience) was absolutely critical to the end, as well as many plot points throughout the story.
And all the cool sandworm footage was already in the trailers.
But it doesn't matter, there's a loyal Fedaykin of true believers on the Internet who will heap praise and collectively downvote any remote criticism of the film. It's ironic how the online fan base embodies and emulates the Fremen's rabid devotion to Muad D'ib.
It's funny how just because you didn't like the movie you think it should be smashed down & downgraded. It's a movie, made for entertainment & storytelling - which it does a great job for the majority of audience. They will accept it because they like it. You don't have to if you didn't like.
@@mollywoodshots6503 It's funny how the post was asking for opinions on whether the changes were good or bad. I voiced my opinion that the changes were bad. That was the point of the post was to solicit feedback. But you seem to think that unless the feedback is positive, it should be withheld.
@@bassfever You can post your opinions, which will be given replies by others. That's how a UA-cam comment box works. If you don't want anyone to give replies, write your opinions in a diary and lock somewhere no one can see.
I hope Denis Villeneuve gets to direct RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA
Because he's perfect
The look of both films is spectacular. Love it.
Unfortunately, it kinda erased or re-wrote the pictures in my head that I got from reading the books in the early 90s.
Neither Lynch’s film nor the Miniseries managed that.
A statement to films visual power. Still a bit sad that it blasted my own imagination.
And Jamis will now forever look like Babs Olusanmokun in my head. Such a strong presence on screen. Not sad about this at all, however.
But it complicates things a bit because now I desperately hope that they’ll *never* have Joseph beam down to a desert environment. My brain would surely melt.
I mean, just pretend all of this is Holodeck Adventures, Lynch Dune for Captain Picard, and this one is for Doctor M'Benga lol
Feyd didn't use the poison barb when dueling with Paul.
Feyd’s death was also slightly different. They probably changed it to keep the PG-13 rating
Thank you for the update, WatchMojo..!! I was completely captivated by Frank Herbert's "Dune." The rich world-building and intricate political dynamics drew me into a unique and fascinating universe. The depth of the characters, particularly Paul Atreides, allowed me to form a deep connection as he navigates complex relationships and personal growth while dealing with the weight of his destiny. 🥶
Why did you not mention the Sting played Feyd Rautha in the 1984 dune???!
The dinner scene would have been cool but I fell impossible to shoot.
1:21 I think Villenueve seriously considered adapting Emperor Shadam from the novel.
I think he just thought let's cast Walken again as Shadam as homage to Walken playing him in the 1980's
8:25 Well in the book Paul takes the princess to be his wife, while Chani remains his concubine who whill bear his children.
Maybe the main problem with the 1984 version of Dune is that it relied too heavily on exposition. That, and their ornithopters looked silly and unrealistic.
I still like the design of the guild navigator as a cross between a cuttlefish and middle aged man with a smoking addiction.
I think the director screwed up a bit on the dynamic between Chani and Paul
Pauls journey is that of a tyrant and every tyrant is a hero in their youth.
Because I have not read the books, I cannot give a definitive say on the differences between both the book and the films. However, I have heard that the book was considered "unfilmable" as no medium used to bring Dune to life from its pages never made great success beyond cult followings. Denis Villeneuve's adaptation appears to, if you will forgive the pun, "hold water" in the face of both critics and audiences who go to see it. Both films are grand in scale, so it was a good idea to split the book into parts, as adapting the book into one movie would have been overkill. While it may have been a shame for characters and settings to have been changed, omitted, or rewritten, they were no doubt a necessary to keep up with the pace of the film and give more representation and show the character's arc as they change and evolve throughout the story.
The original novel was excellent and very very well done. To be so presumptuous as to think one can improve upon it is ludicrous.
How about in Dune 2, the Bene Gesserit telling the Emperor to kill the Atreides (which contradicts the first movie)?
For the people that are critiquing these movies, all you need to know is that Frank Herbert's family calls Denis Villeneuve's movie the best adapations made feom Dune. And for a movie called unadapatable, they are pretty damn good.
I'm usually a stickler for more literal interpretation but I thought Villeneuve's changes made the movie better in ways than the book in terms of being more direct about Herbert's main point about charismatic leaders. Not mentioned in your video is the lack of the Spacing Guild and Paul's threat to them which cows them. Instead, the other Great Houses refuse to honor Paul's claim and he unleashes the Fremen on them without much thought or conscience.
Sorry I don't get the last one, what are they saying is different between the books and movies?? They eventually get to the same message, right??
A sci-fi classic that will be spoken of with acclaim for years to come. Another Blade Runner or 2001 A Space Odyssey. Lol!
While you rightly point out that The Baron's nephews appearance is different in the film you failed to mention that the harkonnens are supposed to have red hair as does Jessica and Aali which hints at the fact that Jessica is his daughter. We did see this utilized to a certain extent and David Lynch's film though it was not commented on, but majorly downplayed in the miniseries and completely left out of the equation though we are certainly informed of the relationship here in these films
Everyone seems to be missing the rain storm. On a desert planet a VERY big plot point. Denis Villeneuve seems to be showing his creativity by coping the Sci-Fi (Sy-Fy) story.
You say "copying Dune" like it's an easy task. Tell others to do it and see what happens. Ohh wait, we already did
As much as I loved Villeneuve's Dune overall, much of the changes occurred because of wokeness, pain and simple. Kynes is gender and race swapped. To her credit, Sharon Duncan-Brewster plays Kynes quite accurately. Chani is essentially a girl-boss, as is Lady Jessica (at least when it comes to Paul). The whole Northern liberal Fremen of which they make Chani (Zendaya portraying Zandaya) a part, vs the Southern fundamentalist believer Fremen of which her uncle, Stilgar, is a part. Stilgar, whom Chani is supposed to love, and who honors the beliefs held by the entirety of Fremen in the book. Zendaya's Chani is made to almost despise her uncle, Stilgar, by Dune Part Two. The nature of how Paul and Jessica's escape from their Harkonnen captors is also changed. PAUL is supposed to be the one who saves himself and his mother from death, but in this version, Jessica becomes the action heroine, and then berates Paul after she "does the saving".
Thankfully these woke/modern audience moments didn't kill my love for this version overall, but the woke really need to just wake TFU.
I may be hallucinating, but AFAIK, Paul never had a first Leto II. As I remember Chani dies of childbirth giving birth to twins. Leto II and his sister (whose name I forgot). Guys, where does this take place?
Lynchisms in the new movies:
1. Psst! Bene Gesserit aren't telepathic. Pass it on.
2. Polluted Geidi Priime
3. Harkonnens are inhuman (either in behavior or appearance or both)
4. Kaitain
5. The Baron is Really into oil
6. The Emperor likes pyramids
7. The Baron flies (and now so do other people)
Most changes are for the better actually. Specially the Paul’s sister and Leto II which would be so weird in a film
We sure see how well not sticking to the books worked out for that whole Foundation mess.
I enjoyed seeing Dune Part 2 today, but some things kept rolling around my in my head...
Thurfer? The Guild Navagators? CHOAM? Mentats? Ix? Gholas? Alia?
"What have we done? You should have told us, the Water of Life changes both, you know. Don't try to impress, even our small children can do this. We concubines, history will call us wives."
EDIT: Please don't misunderstand me, I really liked both movies.
The tricky part of making a film adaptation of Dune is that the subtle nuances of the book are lost on those who haven't read the book, and for those who have enjoyed Herbert's telling of the story, no movie short of ten hours could ever really do the story justice.
I don't think the story was butchered, but I also don't believe that producers and directors truly have the readers of the work in mind and are instead appealing to a mass audience hoping that their slant on the subject will generate more revenue and garnish more awards.
At least they didn't turn Dune into a musical! 😱
“Dune The Musical?” 😂😂😂
As with any franchise these days, however, It’s bound to happen eventually…
IIRC, Ix and gholas don't come into the story until Dune Messiah.
@@Rob_F8F Uh, yeah... Kinda know that. I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. My point was, if they scrapped Duncan Idaho and Mentats and the Guild, my mind couldn't help but wonder what the hell is going to be in Part 3. Jar-Jar Binks?
@martinboyle9163 I would have love to see more of the Mentats and Guild. That said, Duncan exits at the book-appropriate point and doesn't come back until Dune Messiah. The Guild plays a larger role in Messiah as well. IIRC, Mentats do not play a large role in the following books. Am I mistaken? (Note: I'm just addressing the 6 original Frank Herbert books, not the Brian Herbert expansions)
I’ve read the book and honestly the changes did not brother me.
Hey! Have you heard the voices around Thufir Hawat?
Check the meeting scene in DUNE 1, when Thufir mentions the Harkonnen accounts. LISTEN, I was shocked, where is that voice coming from? You need to hear this, as I, never, noticed this before. It sounds like the voice.
I wore headphones and checked 2 versions, it's so strange.
(I copied this comment from another vid I saw, because I really need to know what this is.)