The verge and salty droid should do a part 2 with the 2019 most active scammers: Tai Lopez Gary Vaynerchuck Grant Cardone Dean Graziosi Russell Brunson Tony Robbins Sam Ovens Dan Pena Tom Bilyeu (and almost every guest on his show) Brendan Bruchard Mel Robbins Jason Capital Tim Ferriss Dan Lok Russ Rafino Naveen Jain Peter Diamandis Ramit Sathi Pat Flynn Noah Kagen Bryan Franklin Dan Kennedy Neil Strauss Marie Forleo Am I forgetting anyone?
Brad Snyder How do you define a scam? Do you believe that real value, from ideas, is created in a capitalist society? Do you not believe that a ‘coach’ (or whatever label) cannot help change an individuals beliefs,patterns,etc... for the better? Is it just the marketing language and big promises that you take issue with? I’m certainly not defending every name on your list. Some are def slimier than others. But you don’t seem to make any distinction or draw any line anywhere
@@DarkArtist1 You are right to certain extent. And because of this grey area, the scammers get away. By that definition, if Leonardo da Vinci was selling his sh** for 1 billion today, then he would be a perfect scammer too.
Me too! Got a 5-minute video tour of him showing off his home, talking about how he started with $47. (Talk about a cookie cutter IM sales pitch.) Oh boy the irony. :D
yeah.. isn't it strange that he talks about how he started with $47 bucks.. still try to sell his 67 steps to $67??... so a person like himself couldn't have started with his cheap-ass system? thats a very nice way to do business!.. NOT! .. he most of anyone.. (if it were true that he only had $47.. then he would not charge $67!.. not even $47!.. cause he would understand that giving out everything you have.. is hard!.. so max $14.99 for his course/system would be more than enough!
"i dont mind learning more about computers anyways"....that poor old women had no idea that learning more about using computers has nothin to do with what that guy was talkin about.
cell23chromosomepair You're either a beautiful troll (if so, asl? We must continue the troll master race) or a complete idiot (if so, asl? I'll bet you're easy.) You know if people are just interested in improving intellect or personal growth, why do they need his 67 steps? Can't they just pursue knowledge and better themselves on their own time without making dating websites that have complaints from the Better Business Bureau or a shady website that asks you about your annual income? Anyone who cautions people not to invest in something that won't give them ten times the return, and sells it to the downtrodden along with a "guaranteed refund" is either a liar or can't take his own advice. That Ferrari he's selling his bullshit system on gives away which one he is.
🤣 just click on the ads but leave the page as soon as it has loaded completely. The con artist advertiser will be charged for each click. Let them lose money
My first job, I worked for a financial adviser. I asked him once how many of our clients made their money through get rich quick schemes. The answer? 0. A fair few of them had lost money to get rich quick schemes though.
This is such a fascinating topic. I really felt sorry for that woman on the phone giving away her credit card to ruthless scam artists promising great outcomes. There needs to be a way to stop these people. Multi-level marketing (MLM) companies such as Amway and Monavie are terrible businesses that should have been stopped a long time ago. All of these new countless Internet frauds seem to be even worse though.
+Hurrrrrrrrrrly That isn't greed on her part. It's just a desire to be more successful and that does not automatically equate to greed. Who doesn't want to be successful in this life? A scam artist like the fool on the other end of the phone line works to social engineer honest people all the time into throwing their money away.
Probably best you do a bit more research on the topic. MLM is a perfectly legitimate Business Model. There are good & bad MLM Companies though, as with anything. I've worked online for a little over 11 years & learn learnt the hard way (lost over $400,000 in my first 7 years). However, I persisted, because I KNEW there were legit ways to make money online. I guess it's all down to how hungry you are and hope open-minded you're prepared to be.
It’s so funny that allot of the comments haven’t aged well. It’s 2021 and everything droid pontes out is happening to the nth degree right now. This video needs more views
+Michael Calabaza :-) You found my Site then bro. Yeah, as you can see, I'm no stranger to Scams. But there IS stuff out there that works if you persist and are prepared to keep testing things carefully.
+tony mandujano You can laugh if you like bro, but it comes down to sincerity and transparency. I appreciate Tai's style of Marketing may not be the most transparent, but what he teaches is the Real Deal.
What's so sad is that there are legitimate companies that push legitimate products that operate in a similar way, but there so many scammers out there that they are practically buried and only a lucky few will find them. Scammers ruin it for legitimate entrepreneurial ventures, because once a real opportunity presents itself, people don't recognize it, because they are used to seeing so many damn scams.
This is an EXTREMELY skewed take on the IM world. The online business model takes on many forms and yes, list building is the most powerful. You are going to the point of demonising the business as a whole. An individual can become an online marketer and conduct their business in an ethical way which serves their clientele. Yes - this does involve actually selling products to your customers repeatedly - this all comes down to the quality of the products you sell. And Yes - there are marketers out there who place profits before integrity but this is an industry who does have many marketers, me being one of them who ensure quality, empowering content, and offers are delivered to their customers. Please do not tar us all with the same brush
+John Bass Who is the bearded fellow with long hair describing the syndicate? And just curious but what do you think of Eben? I respect the man and see no reason I shouldn't. I essentially bought his life's work for less than $500.00 and am finding it tremendously useful. BUT I'm always interested in digging deeper, and both sides of an argument, so I'm curious to know your thoughts.
+chaztikov I think it comes down to the rate between the lies and the real usefulness of the product or service. I mean, who "really needs" an iPhone, or a 200 dollar tennis shoe, or 20-knife sets or whatever? Occasionally I buy food that I don't even eat and have to throw it away for being expired. I have shirts I only used once in years. I have books I never read and cd's I only listened to once. In a sense, believing that all "gurus" are scammers is the same as regarding gym owners as crooks because most people are not going to look like the fitness models they wanted to be. If there's not an active persuasion, with flat out lies, then it cannot be labeled as a scam. As far as I know, this Eben guy, David de Angelo, was basically promoting social interaction knowledge, tips and techniques. It was not a "date Victoria's Secret models in 3 months!" type of thing. Many "gurus" are pretty much business teachers, providing information a person would get in the same way as paying for college or whatever courses. Others are really scamming for money, with fake guarantees, outright lies and surreal promises.
wow just wow, Verge I'm loving the direction you are going and highlighting these important topics which need to be addressed and editing it brilliantly too. Keep it up :)
I'm an internet marketer and can attest to EVERYTHING this video is saying. Thank you sooo much for finally bringing to light the world's biggest scam. Selling the dream of making money online is scamming thousands of people daily!!! Why? Because it sells....
There's a difference between regulating the internet and stopping harmful business. Ultimately, these scams are based in the real world, so they have to be stopped. This man isn't calling for government regulation of the internet, but rather that the government better understands how the internet works to prevent legal loopholes. The reason the internet is so widely used by scammers is because it circumvents many laws that prevent this kind of behavior.
First of all I don't work for any syndicate, and I have only been looking into internet marketing for about 3 months now. I don't know about this, can someone whose against internet marketing continue this conversation? I see Internet Marketing as a business model that can be used for good or for bad. People always tell you how much they made, its very rare that they tell you how much you will make. The FTC is actually completely game to internet marketing at this point. They had shut down Frank Kern's first plan, because it was a legitimate pyramid scheme. I wasn't around for that product, but I heard the story. Now Frank Kern has been teaching and selling products like Mass Control. Whatever the price tag he chooses to put on those products, I think is his choice. I've bought products that I absolutely regretted buying, and gotten a 100% refund every single time, from different people, and I've bought products that were entirely worth it. You see, the education is the value here. Education has never really been free. School is not free, and college is definitely not free. College is just education at the end of the day. You take that education, and apply it to your life in whichever way you want. The fallacy of internet marketing is that there are way too many teachers, teaching how to teach. If teachers only taught how to teach, essentially schools would be a pyramid scheme. But teachers teach how to become a person of value, and exchange your value with the students taking other majors for their values, thus building a sustainable life for everyone. Internet Marketing is no different. Yes, you could potentially learn some things for free, but I personally don't mind buying internet marketing products, because I do see the value in them. I wouldn't just want to take down the entire industry, and I don't really see how Frank Kern is any different from Robert Kiyosaki. He teaches how the wealth system of internet marketing works, in an easy to grasp way. I understand the motives of this video, but I do disagree, and no I'm not just some brainwashed superfan of the internet, I'm a man who likes learning different things, and this is one of those things worth learning. This video made Internet Marketing look like its just another one of those pyramid schemes. Its not. Its an educational product. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I would love to continue this conversation and hear the opinions of someone who disagrees with me entirely. Lets continue this conversation.
+TechTechInc "Marketing" is a simple concept but with a broad reach, or an ample range of sub-items. Literally is just putting your product into the market, showing people something you have that may interest them. It could be a simple sign in front of a door saying "we sell watermelon" or it could be a huge campaign with celebrities and special effects and promises of eternal youth. "Marketing", per se, cannot be labeled good or bad, truthful or deceiving, there's a wide spectrum with different levels of intensity between good and bad, true or false. The more fantastic and unlikely the results from acquiring the product/service are, the more "scammy" or dishonest the marketing is. IF the claim is in the likes of "how to improve your live" the product/service can be considered honest, even if it's somewhat low quality. If the claims are more in the ways of "never work again!" or "have the body of a supermodel in 3 months" or "make at least 10k a month working from your computer" or anything that implies some sort of guarantee that by acquiring the products or applying those "tactics" you're going to have a definite type of result, then it's scamming. The issue with "internet marketing" in these terms is that the core is not real products and the "education" is not scientific, technological or any sort of unbiased honest knowledge. All these lose-weight, find-real-love, find-happiness, get-rich, etc. matters are closer to religious beliefs than to tangible things, which belong in the real world, normal business environments (everything you see when you go to malls, shopping centers, market places, etc.). The difference also to "real education", is that in conventional education people learn specific things, actual skills, verifiable information with specific rules and structures (mostly). All these "gurus" sell mostly hope, they're selling dreams, their job is exactly the same as of a pastor, preacher, priest, etc. A real honest approach would be to tell people to learn to actually do something, which most successful people already did (such as, you go to college for computer science to learn about computers, not to have a diploma which entitles you to make a lot of money). Product developers generally have technical knowledge. The gym equipment was developed by engineers, the supplements and vitamins were developed by chemists. Hair products, make-up products, perfume, drugs, etc were developed by highly educated people in real sciences. Even douchebags like Zuckerberg ad Evan Spiegel (Snapchat) were in top Universities. Whatsapp and Uber creators were also rich people graduated from top universities and already highly positioned in life. Practically all celebrities became celebrities by learning specific skills or by being born from successful people who had real world skills/knowledge/talent. Even these "gurus" are only successful because they have certain talents: higher than average intelligence, communication skills, posture, looks, discipline, stamina, a lot of actual knowledge (they all have read vast amounts of real books by real people, unlike their target audience). None of them would get to their level by simply applying everything they teach. That would be like reading a book about basketball written by Michael Jordan and expect you're "developing" yourself as a basketball player, and potentially being the next NBA star player....
Well, I have been a full time Internet marketer & product creator for two years now, and I don't get it when people say "scammy products" because if the customers isn't satisfied with the product, they can always get a refund. And it's not just we the "one man Internet marketing business" who are building email lists and sends the subscribers promotion emails. Almost every big company in the world have a email list too. And the subscribers decide by themselves if they want to sign up or not...
I spent well over $10K buying many of the courses and seminars advertised in this vid. But what I learned helped me earn over $300K creating and selling my own 3D animation training courses. So while it's true that the "get rich quick" marketers are lying, there is value in what some marketers teach. Jeff Walker was the most helpful to me, so I was surprised to see him in the vid. You need to work HARD using what you've learned. Which a lot of people forget.
Some very strong words are being thrown around, along with a confusion between form and content. I've seen crap products sold via squeeze pages and lists -- and an informational product sold through the same means has had a positive influence on my real-world business. This wasn't someone trying to take money from me, this was someone -- like every other business -- who created value that deserved compensation.
These 'entrepreneurs' are the absolute lowest form of life there is, no question. Automatic 10 years jail time for this kind of immoral behaviour should be mandatory.
I think this video is either a scam, or is terribly researched. There is no way Tony Robbins, shown at 2:17 is an online scammer - I will pay the first person who proves otherwise $100USD.
8 років тому+1
+Jayden Lawson You scammer, you want to PAY someone $100 ! LOL
I just love this finally, someone has the sense to bring to light all the scams out there including the ones we thought were honest. Three cheers to this channel dude, I am looking forward to watching more of his uploads - alaluya!!!
A lot of the clips in this video are completely out of context. People in the business of creating products work hard to give their customers quality stuff that actually deliver results. Frank Kern and Eben Pagen preach quality and value all the time. That's why they are successful - Because they make it all about the customer, and answers to their needs. Get your hands on an actual product before you jump to conclusions - it's no different then paying to go to school. People in general are spending their cash on things that'll help them a lot less then a few pearls of wisdom from the IM gurus. Psychological manipulation is encountered every single day, and happens within every conversation autonomously. These guys just use it to get you to where you need to go faster. Sure there are scam artists out there, but they actually steal from you, giving nothing in return, or are the spammers who send you crap you didn't sign up for... Did you forget to mention how much FREE content they give away?
> " Frank Kern and Eben Pagen preach quality and value all the time." Like priests preached celibacy while raping children. Eben, aka David "Double Your Dating" DeAngelo, promised "guaranteed" success with women by using his "killer" secrets. He failed to mention that he, himself, rented hookers, had few actual girlfriends, and married a masculine-looking female.
+Clayton makes a great point. I took Eben Pagan's Wake Up Productive course and it was phenomenally successful in shifting my relationship to work from one of burnout to one where I can manage my health & fulfill on this promise - wake up productive! This course is of high quality and would recommend it to anyone especially anyone who is looking to put the book Power of Full Engagement in practice. And no, I'm not in a cartel w any of these guys! ;)
There is a difference, I agree. I think the best way to handle stuff like this is to simply educate each other and let the market naturally delegitimize scammers and their reputations, rather than deferring to a incompetent government that, largely, does not understand technology. Frank Kern is not in the same category as Nigerian scammers. He both takes advantage of some people and provides value to others. It is ridiculous to call Tony Robbins a "scammer."
The first 12 seconds of this video is similar to asking a hungry person to feel full or asking a cold person to feel warm. Peace, freedom, and financial security are not feelings people can choose to feel at the snap of their fingers. You can't make yourself feel those emotions artificially. Peace, freedom, and financial security are things you can only feel when you actually, really do have them.
I actually like that because it's up to you to know this or find this out. Isn't explicitly saying who's bad and who's good insulting to a thinking human?
Incredible Doc guys. The subculture is appalling and I'm so glad you are bringing light to the subject. I'll do my best to pass this around the various social networks ( reddit, twitter, facebook ) Please continue to produce quality work such as this.
The conversation made me sick to my stomach. I went a few days to a sales operation that consisted in selling bogus "accounting" and "followup" services to people who'd bought a bogus business system.
I think this is one of those situations where no matter what path we choose as a society, something bad will be present. I mean things like scams and cyberbulling are a problem, but a free internet offers so much more good than a highly regulated one.
Not all people selling online are like this. Please realize there are ones that do marketing on the internet in an ethical way selling quality products.
Very powerful video ... thank you!! It's good to know I am not the only one that feels that all this stuff is overwhelming hitting us over and over and over.
Not exactly. Education doesn't teach you what to think per se, rather, it teaches you how to think. If it force feeds you information, there is something wrong with the education system, and I agree with you that force feeding information is not the way to go in our highly evolved society.
Product launches, affiliate marketing etc... they DO work if you take action. But that syndicate bit is scary. I knew that the "top dogs" worked together, but so do cartels. Didn't see it like that before. hmmm....
I've had a cooking blog for 6 years and never made any money of it. Someone once told me that was a pity and that I should definitely find a way to have an income from my blog ! I've seen so many of these promises on the internet... Thanks for making this video, who knows I maybe would've ended up paying a LOT of money in some sort of a course to teach me how to make money with blogging !
MRCG Lifestyle Thank you for your reply ! I actually moved my entire blog to get a "domain name" soooo I'm starting everything over ... :) very very low numbers hahah
+Kelyrin's Cooking & Bento To be fair, if you had set it up correctly the first time, like you've done now with your own domain, you would have been able to build a better brand for yourself and your blog. +MRCG Lifestyle is correct, include links to the product and tools that you use via amazon's affiliate link and when people buy them you'll make a bit of money on each purchase. A blog isn't going to make money for just being a blog, you have to monetise it. Sell an ebook with your top recipes? Also unless your website has visitors its not going to make money. you need visitors to turn into customers. You probably could have bought a course 6 years ago, and would have made money. Yes there are plenty of scams online, theres plenty of scams offline too. The key is setting up a business that provides value for your audience (your cooking blog for example). No I'm not an internet marketer, and no I don't have a service to sell you lol.
+Kelyrin's Cooking & Bento This video is very mis-informative. You should have bought those products. you could have been VERY successful by now. Buy any products that look good and learn how to monetize. Look for books that relate to what you are trying to do. If they suck, return them. Simple as that. I AM an internet marketer and I learned a ton by buying what this video calls scammy products. You had a cooking blog! I mean you should've have been made money off of that. But like the others said. Writing isn't enough now. You need to monetize and more importantly market. I literally have nothing to sell but I would love to help you get started. I really love helping people because marketing just comes so easy to me which makes it fun. Let me know if you want help. I know all about blowing your business up big time.
You can tell that the scammers are scared by this video, because they've started spamming the comments. No, no one has made money on these scams. Don't be fooled because someone was willing to make a few fake UA-cam accounts and post comments saying this video is bullshit and that they've had some enormous success on these products.
Let me just say this, been out of network marketing since late 80's when I helped roll out Sprint. Network 2000 ripped off 30,000 independent reps of residual income from phone calls. Look it up, NY Times article. We sued, won, but after two years of working non-stop, ended up with a $6,000 settlement check. Started looking into this again, same ole' spin, different day.
Unfortunately, the tidal wave just got to Russia a couple of years ago. When self-proclaimed diet/psycology experts together with english teachers advertise their closed group with a social platforms ads and get money off of those people who come. And poorer the country gets, the more money they get from those desperate folks.
Half of those gurus featured in this video started out with guitar lessons, Music production, Dog Training, dating and non-IM products. LOL After mastering Internet Marketing in these niches, these are the guys make Internet marketing lessons available. I don't understand the reason for the attack. It's totally incorrect.
I wonder how this relates to the "life coaches" and "creative coaches" I see online - they all seem to be promoting each other's products all the time, same names and faces on every testimonial, similar false-scarcity tactics.
Eben Pagan is legit. I have learned so much from him in terms of business knowledge and life philosophy. He is the guy who can turn boring books into lively video which is easier to learn. And these guys give a 100% refund guarantee in 99% of the cases, so I don't know how these marketers can be classified as scammers. They don't sell and run away. There are there in real identities and addresses and they will refund your purchase on the slightest note of dissatisfaction.
No I mean what you're saying, government regulation of the internet, would have negative long-term effects. Specifically issues regarding ethics and liberty, like free speech. It's not that regulating scams on the internet is in and of itself bad, but it opens the floodgates for future regulations that could be considered incorrect. There's a reason why things like net neutrality are a battles worth fighting.
"...get started right now, today, and have money deposited in your account by tomorrow......This isn't a get rich quick scheme..." That's basically a get rich quick scheme. That was simple English, simple words, and if you didn't catch that what he said was contradicting or 'fishy', you're partly guilty of being scammed. The Internet is more than just Facebook & Twitter. Educate yourself.
i pray for people like you, i actually have talents outside of marketing and i actually love the learning experience and transferable business skills. affiliate marketing is a great way to get a good start and the education before being an entrepreneur in any field. i am an unbiased marketer there are even con artists within my primary opportunity but this is for me, not anyone else. if i quit affiliate marketing today, i would be okay. thank you very much.
Product Launch Formula. The price of 1997 dollar sounds high but if you have a reasonable list you can easily earn that money back or even make good profits with it. And also the Video Sales Letter program from Ryan Deiss. This is only 97 dollar, so if you only make a couple of sales per month more because of this program it is already a good investment.
a bit hypocritical dont you think?...but very informational, with clever editing and helpful to people who dont know about these things, so Thank You for making this.
New get rich quick scheme: Be a lawyer who's filing a class-action lawsuit against these jerks.
gairabad On it!👍🏼
These losers have no money, a losing racket.
You have my attention.
Omg they got so big recently, every single ad is a get rich quick thing
The verge and salty droid should do a part 2 with the 2019 most active scammers:
Tai Lopez
Gary Vaynerchuck
Grant Cardone
Dean Graziosi
Russell Brunson
Tony Robbins
Sam Ovens
Dan Pena
Tom Bilyeu (and almost every guest on his show)
Brendan Bruchard
Mel Robbins
Jason Capital
Tim Ferriss
Dan Lok
Russ Rafino
Naveen Jain
Peter Diamandis
Ramit Sathi
Pat Flynn
Noah Kagen
Bryan Franklin
Dan Kennedy
Neil Strauss
Marie Forleo
Am I forgetting anyone?
Brad Snyder How do you define a scam?
Do you believe that real value, from ideas, is created in a capitalist society?
Do you not believe that a ‘coach’ (or whatever label) cannot help change an individuals beliefs,patterns,etc... for the better?
Is it just the marketing language and big promises that you take issue with?
I’m certainly not defending every name on your list. Some are def slimier than others. But you don’t seem to make any distinction or draw any line anywhere
Can you help me find out if Douglas James is one?
Brian Gamboa I need to know this too
Damn dawg, you dropped them mic like Em thurr.
@@DarkArtist1 You are right to certain extent. And because of this grey area, the scammers get away. By that definition, if Leonardo da Vinci was selling his sh** for 1 billion today, then he would be a perfect scammer too.
Loved the authenticity of this video even almost a decade later!
I just got scammed out of 2k. Which brought me to this video. The phone conversation was exactly like the conversation in this video smh.
How did it happen
Start a 2k ecourse on how NOT to get scammed. LOL
this comment is a year old, if you would have invested that money in tesla, bitcoin or nio you would have doubled your money
Wtf dude. How does ONE just give away 2k lol
I can get you in for just 500 dollars. Enough of being scammed! I'll take you there
Amazing that this video was posted 11 years ago. So on point and more relevant than ever today.
It’s sad we get these ads still today
Isn't it ironic that the youtube ad at the beginning of the video sounds just like the scams we are being warned about
Its too funny that I got a Tai Lopez ad before this video
I've met Tai bro & he's totally sound & legit. He also has some great Products that I've personally use to create an income. Just saying.
+Rick Hignett said the internet scammer.
+MrFlarespeed www.learnwithrick.com/ same dude
Me too! Got a 5-minute video tour of him showing off his home, talking about how he started with $47. (Talk about a cookie cutter IM sales pitch.)
Oh boy the irony. :D
yeah.. isn't it strange that he talks about how he started with $47 bucks.. still try to sell his 67 steps to $67??... so a person like himself couldn't have started with his cheap-ass system? thats a very nice way to do business!.. NOT! .. he most of anyone.. (if it were true that he only had $47.. then he would not charge $67!.. not even $47!.. cause he would understand that giving out everything you have.. is hard!.. so max $14.99 for his course/system would be more than enough!
"i dont mind learning more about computers anyways"....that poor old women had no idea that learning more about using computers has nothin to do with what that guy was talkin about.
Agreed. I bought the Product Launch Formula and turned it into $350K selling 3D animation training. Was it hard work? You bet. A scam? Clearly not.
Project Launch Formula book is awesome.
@@YesitisDex Is that Jeff Walker's thing?
@@jumhed994 Yes
@@jumhed994 yeah. I got his book from audibles. I wouldn't buy a course or anything more.
I got what I need already ;)
*coughs* Tai Lopez
cell23chromosomepair You're either a beautiful troll (if so, asl? We must continue the troll master race) or a complete idiot (if so, asl? I'll bet you're easy.) You know if people are just interested in improving intellect or personal growth, why do they need his 67 steps? Can't they just pursue knowledge and better themselves on their own time without making dating websites that have complaints from the Better Business Bureau or a shady website that asks you about your annual income? Anyone who cautions people not to invest in something that won't give them ten times the return, and sells it to the downtrodden along with a "guaranteed refund" is either a liar or can't take his own advice. That Ferrari he's selling his bullshit system on gives away which one he is.
Outrageous suggestion. : )
What the heck is happening! I don't search any get rich resources, and the advertising I receive about getting rich is at crazy level.
I literally put my name as “AKS-74FU” and It accepted.
great video, would love to see it transforming in to a full length documentary!
I got a "become a millionaire quick" scam before this video played!!!
🤣 just click on the ads but leave the page as soon as it has loaded completely.
The con artist advertiser will be charged for each click.
Let them lose money
My first job, I worked for a financial adviser. I asked him once how many of our clients made their money through get rich quick schemes. The answer? 0. A fair few of them had lost money to get rich quick schemes though.
Good job again, Droid. It's time folks started speaking the truth.....
This is such a fascinating topic. I really felt sorry for that woman on the phone giving away her credit card to ruthless scam artists promising great outcomes. There needs to be a way to stop these people. Multi-level marketing (MLM) companies such as Amway and Monavie are terrible businesses that should have been stopped a long time ago. All of these new countless Internet frauds seem to be even worse though.
Shut up bitch
+Hurrrrrrrrrrly
That isn't greed on her part. It's just a desire to be more successful and that does not automatically equate to greed. Who doesn't want to be successful in this life? A scam artist like the fool on the other end of the phone line works to social engineer honest people all the time into throwing their money away.
+Greg Fisher Jr
How's that failed MLM workin out?
Probably best you do a bit more research on the topic. MLM is a perfectly legitimate Business Model. There are good & bad MLM Companies though, as with anything. I've worked online for a little over 11 years & learn learnt the hard way (lost over $400,000 in my first 7 years). However, I persisted, because I KNEW there were legit ways to make money online. I guess it's all down to how hungry you are and hope open-minded you're prepared to be.
A lot of people need to understand the difference between working a JOB and building a BUSINESS
It’s so funny that allot of the comments haven’t aged well. It’s 2021 and everything droid pontes out is happening to the nth degree right now. This video needs more views
CoffeeZilla is taking over the legacy of exposing internet scammers.
Anita Sarkeesian used to be affiliated with these people btw...true story
gryphonofmight Isn't she still affiliated with them?
LizzieShiro Is she? I didn't know she still was
gryphonofmight Maybe. I'm not a follower of her, just someone who wants to punch her in the face for scamming her fans.
she found a different way to make money. OUTRAGE sells.
Sadly, I believe reality is far more depressing: people want to believe what is sold to them. Masses hate the truth, as Baltasar Gracián said.
Ahhh...a video all about Tai Lopez
I've met Tai & he's about as genuine as they come. Grow up!!
+tony mandujano look at this, this is Rick Hignett www.learnwithrick.com/
+Michael Calabaza :-) You found my Site then bro. Yeah, as you can see, I'm no stranger to Scams. But there IS stuff out there that works if you persist and are prepared to keep testing things carefully.
+tony mandujano You can laugh if you like bro, but it comes down to sincerity and transparency. I appreciate Tai's style of Marketing may not be the most transparent, but what he teaches is the Real Deal.
Rick, what happened to your website? It says: "404 Error - Page Not Found"
What's so sad is that there are legitimate companies that push legitimate products that operate in a similar way, but there so many scammers out there that they are practically buried and only a lucky few will find them. Scammers ruin it for legitimate entrepreneurial ventures, because once a real opportunity presents itself, people don't recognize it, because they are used to seeing so many damn scams.
This is an EXTREMELY skewed take on the IM world.
The online business model takes on many forms and yes, list building is the most powerful. You are going to the point of demonising the business as a whole. An individual can become an online marketer and conduct their business in an ethical way which serves their clientele. Yes - this does involve actually selling products to your customers repeatedly - this all comes down to the quality of the products you sell. And Yes - there are marketers out there who place profits before integrity but this is an industry who does have many marketers, me being one of them who ensure quality, empowering content, and offers are delivered to their customers.
Please do not tar us all with the same brush
+John Bass Who is the bearded fellow with long hair describing the syndicate? And just curious but what do you think of Eben? I respect the man and see no reason I shouldn't. I essentially bought his life's work for less than $500.00 and am finding it tremendously useful.
BUT I'm always interested in digging deeper, and both sides of an argument, so I'm curious to know your thoughts.
+chaztikov I think it comes down to the rate between the lies and the real usefulness of the product or service. I mean, who "really needs" an iPhone, or a 200 dollar tennis shoe, or 20-knife sets or whatever? Occasionally I buy food that I don't even eat and have to throw it away for being expired. I have shirts I only used once in years. I have books I never read and cd's I only listened to once. In a sense, believing that all "gurus" are scammers is the same as regarding gym owners as crooks because most people are not going to look like the fitness models they wanted to be. If there's not an active persuasion, with flat out lies, then it cannot be labeled as a scam. As far as I know, this Eben guy, David de Angelo, was basically promoting social interaction knowledge, tips and techniques. It was not a "date Victoria's Secret models in 3 months!" type of thing. Many "gurus" are pretty much business teachers, providing information a person would get in the same way as paying for college or whatever courses. Others are really scamming for money, with fake guarantees, outright lies and surreal promises.
+chaztikov Frank Kern - as for Eben - haven't come across them/it so far :)
+chaztikov Frank Kern
I love The Verge. These types of videos really shows what makes The Verge different from other tech sites.
wow just wow, Verge I'm loving the direction you are going and highlighting these important topics which need to be addressed and editing it brilliantly too. Keep it up :)
So this is an advert for the Underground conference, right?
Whoever made this video is my hero. The day my UA-cam videos become this good is the day Paul Miller quits Minecraft.
I'm an internet marketer and can attest to EVERYTHING this video is saying. Thank you sooo much for finally bringing to light the world's biggest scam. Selling the dream of making money online is scamming thousands of people daily!!! Why? Because it sells....
There's a difference between regulating the internet and stopping harmful business. Ultimately, these scams are based in the real world, so they have to be stopped. This man isn't calling for government regulation of the internet, but rather that the government better understands how the internet works to prevent legal loopholes. The reason the internet is so widely used by scammers is because it circumvents many laws that prevent this kind of behavior.
I wonder if there's a scam for getting into "get rich" scams
Jack ma once said...
You don't have to be the best
You just got to be the first
First of all I don't work for any syndicate, and I have only been looking into internet marketing for about 3 months now. I don't know about this, can someone whose against internet marketing continue this conversation? I see Internet Marketing as a business model that can be used for good or for bad. People always tell you how much they made, its very rare that they tell you how much you will make. The FTC is actually completely game to internet marketing at this point. They had shut down Frank Kern's first plan, because it was a legitimate pyramid scheme. I wasn't around for that product, but I heard the story.
Now Frank Kern has been teaching and selling products like Mass Control. Whatever the price tag he chooses to put on those products, I think is his choice. I've bought products that I absolutely regretted buying, and gotten a 100% refund every single time, from different people, and I've bought products that were entirely worth it. You see, the education is the value here. Education has never really been free. School is not free, and college is definitely not free. College is just education at the end of the day. You take that education, and apply it to your life in whichever way you want. The fallacy of internet marketing is that there are way too many teachers, teaching how to teach. If teachers only taught how to teach, essentially schools would be a pyramid scheme. But teachers teach how to become a person of value, and exchange your value with the students taking other majors for their values, thus building a sustainable life for everyone.
Internet Marketing is no different. Yes, you could potentially learn some things for free, but I personally don't mind buying internet marketing products, because I do see the value in them. I wouldn't just want to take down the entire industry, and I don't really see how Frank Kern is any different from Robert Kiyosaki. He teaches how the wealth system of internet marketing works, in an easy to grasp way. I understand the motives of this video, but I do disagree, and no I'm not just some brainwashed superfan of the internet, I'm a man who likes learning different things, and this is one of those things worth learning. This video made Internet Marketing look like its just another one of those pyramid schemes. Its not. Its an educational product. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I would love to continue this conversation and hear the opinions of someone who disagrees with me entirely. Lets continue this conversation.
This is 100% accurate and correct.
*****
Ironically The Verge uses internet marketing tactics that Frank Kern teaches to become an authority site on the internet. Irony.
> "Internet Marketing...an educational product."
What's the difference between Harvard-MIT-Yale and Whatsamatta U.?
+TechTechInc "Marketing" is a simple concept but with a broad reach, or an ample range of sub-items. Literally is just putting your product into the market, showing people something you have that may interest them. It could be a simple sign in front of a door saying "we sell watermelon" or it could be a huge campaign with celebrities and special effects and promises of eternal youth. "Marketing", per se, cannot be labeled good or bad, truthful or deceiving, there's a wide spectrum with different levels of intensity between good and bad, true or false. The more fantastic and unlikely the results from acquiring the product/service are, the more "scammy" or dishonest the marketing is. IF the claim is in the likes of "how to improve your live" the product/service can be considered honest, even if it's somewhat low quality. If the claims are more in the ways of "never work again!" or "have the body of a supermodel in 3 months" or "make at least 10k a month working from your computer" or anything that implies some sort of guarantee that by acquiring the products or applying those "tactics" you're going to have a definite type of result, then it's scamming. The issue with "internet marketing" in these terms is that the core is not real products and the "education" is not scientific, technological or any sort of unbiased honest knowledge. All these lose-weight, find-real-love, find-happiness, get-rich, etc. matters are closer to religious beliefs than to tangible things, which belong in the real world, normal business environments (everything you see when you go to malls, shopping centers, market places, etc.). The difference also to "real education", is that in conventional education people learn specific things, actual skills, verifiable information with specific rules and structures (mostly). All these "gurus" sell mostly hope, they're selling dreams, their job is exactly the same as of a pastor, preacher, priest, etc. A real honest approach would be to tell people to learn to actually do something, which most successful people already did (such as, you go to college for computer science to learn about computers, not to have a diploma which entitles you to make a lot of money). Product developers generally have technical knowledge. The gym equipment was developed by engineers, the supplements and vitamins were developed by chemists. Hair products, make-up products, perfume, drugs, etc were developed by highly educated people in real sciences. Even douchebags like Zuckerberg ad Evan Spiegel (Snapchat) were in top Universities. Whatsapp and Uber creators were also rich people graduated from top universities and already highly positioned in life. Practically all celebrities became celebrities by learning specific skills or by being born from successful people who had real world skills/knowledge/talent. Even these "gurus" are only successful because they have certain talents: higher than average intelligence, communication skills, posture, looks, discipline, stamina, a lot of actual knowledge (they all have read vast amounts of real books by real people, unlike their target audience). None of them would get to their level by simply applying everything they teach. That would be like reading a book about basketball written by Michael Jordan and expect you're "developing" yourself as a basketball player, and potentially being the next NBA star player....
CzechRiot
Very very well put my friend. You covered all the points. Thanks for your input!
Well, I have been a full time Internet marketer & product creator for two years now, and I don't get it when people say "scammy products" because if the customers isn't satisfied with the product, they can always get a refund.
And it's not just we the "one man Internet marketing business" who are building email lists and sends the subscribers promotion emails. Almost every big company in the world have a email list too. And the subscribers decide by themselves if they want to sign up or not...
I spent well over $10K buying many of the courses and seminars advertised in this vid. But what I learned helped me earn over $300K creating and selling my own 3D animation training courses. So while it's true that the "get rich quick" marketers are lying, there is value in what some marketers teach. Jeff Walker was the most helpful to me, so I was surprised to see him in the vid. You need to work HARD using what you've learned. Which a lot of people forget.
Some very strong words are being thrown around, along with a confusion between form and content. I've seen crap products sold via squeeze pages and lists -- and an informational product sold through the same means has had a positive influence on my real-world business. This wasn't someone trying to take money from me, this was someone -- like every other business -- who created value that deserved compensation.
He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know. - Lao Tzu
These 'entrepreneurs' are the absolute lowest form of life there is, no question.
Automatic 10 years jail time for this kind of immoral behaviour should be mandatory.
This is CONtrepreneurs or SCAMtrepreneurs
Scary thing is, i remember myself submitting my email-adress too.
I think this video is either a scam, or is terribly researched. There is no way Tony Robbins, shown at 2:17 is an online scammer - I will pay the first person who proves otherwise $100USD.
+Jayden Lawson You scammer, you want to PAY someone $100 ! LOL
I just love this finally, someone has the sense to bring to light all the scams out there including the ones we thought were honest. Three cheers to this channel dude, I am looking forward to watching more of his uploads - alaluya!!!
why the fuck is this world so god damn corrupt >.
"Cruel world happy mind" brought me here.
A lot of the clips in this video are completely out of context. People in the business of creating products work hard to give their customers quality stuff that actually deliver results. Frank Kern and Eben Pagen preach quality and value all the time. That's why they are successful - Because they make it all about the customer, and answers to their needs.
Get your hands on an actual product before you jump to conclusions - it's no different then paying to go to school. People in general are spending their cash on things that'll help them a lot less then a few pearls of wisdom from the IM gurus.
Psychological manipulation is encountered every single day, and happens within every conversation autonomously. These guys just use it to get you to where you need to go faster. Sure there are scam artists out there, but they actually steal from you, giving nothing in return, or are the spammers who send you crap you didn't sign up for...
Did you forget to mention how much FREE content they give away?
Or the fact that people have gotten results with the free content? Perfect example of this: Frank's 4 Day Cash Machine email sequence.
its all about money they say what the need to to get your money
> " Frank Kern and Eben Pagen preach quality and value all the time."
Like priests preached celibacy while raping children.
Eben, aka David "Double Your Dating" DeAngelo, promised "guaranteed" success with women by using his "killer" secrets.
He failed to mention that he, himself, rented hookers, had few actual girlfriends, and married a masculine-looking female.
+Clayton makes a great point. I took Eben Pagan's Wake Up Productive course and it was phenomenally successful in shifting my relationship to work from one of burnout to one where I can manage my health & fulfill on this promise - wake up productive! This course is of high quality and would recommend it to anyone especially anyone who is looking to put the book Power of Full Engagement in practice. And no, I'm not in a cartel w any of these guys! ;)
8 years later and it's only gotten worse.
That would have more long-term and dangerous effects beyond just internet scams.
This is fantastic! I really wish I could have found this a half hour before I gave my email to one of the scam sites I just saw here.
There is a difference, I agree. I think the best way to handle stuff like this is to simply educate each other and let the market naturally delegitimize scammers and their reputations, rather than deferring to a incompetent government that, largely, does not understand technology.
Frank Kern is not in the same category as Nigerian scammers. He both takes advantage of some people and provides value to others. It is ridiculous to call Tony Robbins a "scammer."
The first 12 seconds of this video is similar to asking a hungry person to feel full or asking a cold person to feel warm. Peace, freedom, and financial security are not feelings people can choose to feel at the snap of their fingers. You can't make yourself feel those emotions artificially. Peace, freedom, and financial security are things you can only feel when you actually, really do have them.
The Wolf of Wallstreet
Awesome video, but a bit disjointed without the article to clarify it.
This sounds like double speak. Calling a pyramid schemes affiliate marketing.
It is doublespeak
I actually like that because it's up to you to know this or find this out. Isn't explicitly saying who's bad and who's good insulting to a thinking human?
Also internet marketing isn't just people telling you how to get rich, there are tons of different niches out there that are full of legit marketers.
Incredible Doc guys. The subculture is appalling and I'm so glad you are bringing light to the subject. I'll do my best to pass this around the various social networks ( reddit, twitter, facebook )
Please continue to produce quality work such as this.
The conversation made me sick to my stomach. I went a few days to a sales operation that consisted in selling bogus "accounting" and "followup" services to people who'd bought a bogus business system.
I think this is one of those situations where no matter what path we choose as a society, something bad will be present. I mean things like scams and cyberbulling are a problem, but a free internet offers so much more good than a highly regulated one.
The verge continues to impress me.
Not much has changed...Unfortunately...
Not all people selling online are like this. Please realize there are ones that do marketing on the internet in an ethical way selling quality products.
THIS.
More of this, Verge.
More of this.
Thank you Verge team this brave public service piece. I loved watching it.
Very powerful video ... thank you!! It's good to know I am not the only one that feels that all this stuff is overwhelming hitting us over and over and over.
Not exactly. Education doesn't teach you what to think per se, rather, it teaches you how to think. If it force feeds you information, there is something wrong with the education system, and I agree with you that force feeding information is not the way to go in our highly evolved society.
lol the ad before this was a get rich quick ad scam
Product launches, affiliate marketing etc... they DO work if you take action. But that syndicate bit is scary. I knew that the "top dogs" worked together, but so do cartels. Didn't see it like that before. hmmm....
I've had a cooking blog for 6 years and never made any money of it. Someone once told me that was a pity and that I should definitely find a way to have an income from my blog ! I've seen so many of these promises on the internet... Thanks for making this video, who knows I maybe would've ended up paying a LOT of money in some sort of a course to teach me how to make money with blogging !
+Kelyrin's Cooking & Bento hi, how many visits do you get per day?
MRCG Lifestyle Thank you for your reply ! I actually moved my entire blog to get a "domain name" soooo I'm starting everything over ... :) very very low numbers hahah
oh i got it. do it -- write tons of reviews about everything you use in kitchen.
+Kelyrin's Cooking & Bento
To be fair, if you had set it up correctly the first time, like you've done now with your own domain, you would have been able to build a better brand for yourself and your blog.
+MRCG Lifestyle is correct, include links to the product and tools that you use via amazon's affiliate link and when people buy them you'll make a bit of money on each purchase.
A blog isn't going to make money for just being a blog, you have to monetise it. Sell an ebook with your top recipes?
Also unless your website has visitors its not going to make money. you need visitors to turn into customers.
You probably could have bought a course 6 years ago, and would have made money.
Yes there are plenty of scams online, theres plenty of scams offline too.
The key is setting up a business that provides value for your audience (your cooking blog for example).
No I'm not an internet marketer, and no I don't have a service to sell you lol.
+Kelyrin's Cooking & Bento This video is very mis-informative. You should have bought those products. you could have been VERY successful by now. Buy any products that look good and learn how to monetize. Look for books that relate to what you are trying to do. If they suck, return them. Simple as that.
I AM an internet marketer and I learned a ton by buying what this video calls scammy products. You had a cooking blog! I mean you should've have been made money off of that.
But like the others said. Writing isn't enough now. You need to monetize and more importantly market.
I literally have nothing to sell but I would love to help you get started. I really love helping people because marketing just comes so easy to me which makes it fun. Let me know if you want help. I know all about blowing your business up big time.
Great stuff Verge. Keep it up.
You can tell that the scammers are scared by this video, because they've started spamming the comments. No, no one has made money on these scams. Don't be fooled because someone was willing to make a few fake UA-cam accounts and post comments saying this video is bullshit and that they've had some enormous success on these products.
I see there were quite a few left out... some were in LLI...
The Scammers are SO BUTTMAD. Keep up the good work Verge!
Brilliant vid. More like this Verge!
The “syndicate” talk is straight out of catch 22 lol
Let me just say this, been out of network marketing since late 80's when I helped roll out Sprint. Network 2000 ripped off 30,000 independent reps of residual income from phone calls. Look it up, NY Times article. We sued, won, but after two years of working non-stop, ended up with a $6,000 settlement check. Started looking into this again, same ole' spin, different day.
Listening to the phone conversation makes me want to throw up... I'm so disgusted. Actually this whole scam shit makes me sick.
Unfortunately, the tidal wave just got to Russia a couple of years ago. When self-proclaimed diet/psycology experts together with english teachers advertise their closed group with a social platforms ads and get money off of those people who come. And poorer the country gets, the more money they get from those desperate folks.
I get your point but why are you pointing out English teachers promoting course on internet?
Aren't they legit?
No, just some of the guys in the videos have broadcasted to their customer lists. I haven't yet. lol Been busy
My old hotmail is being absolutely bombarded by these things.
Wish your dream came true and they all vanished but its 8 years ago and its thriving more than ever.
What year was the boiler room filmed in the clip. Since it goes back to black and white I am curious.
word up!
Half of those gurus featured in this video started out with guitar lessons, Music production, Dog Training, dating and non-IM products. LOL After mastering Internet Marketing in these niches, these are the guys make Internet marketing lessons available. I don't understand the reason for the attack. It's totally incorrect.
What one may expect from the consumer society who can only think money...
Did some of the scammers put a note out to their followers to respond to this video and tell them phrases to use like due diligence?
I wonder how this relates to the "life coaches" and "creative coaches" I see online - they all seem to be promoting each other's products all the time, same names and faces on every testimonial, similar false-scarcity tactics.
I can't believe that scammers have their own con...
Eben Pagan is legit. I have learned so much from him in terms of business knowledge and life philosophy. He is the guy who can turn boring books into lively video which is easier to learn.
And these guys give a 100% refund guarantee in 99% of the cases, so I don't know how these marketers can be classified as scammers. They don't sell and run away. There are there in real identities and addresses and they will refund your purchase on the slightest note of dissatisfaction.
Thank you VERY MUCH for exposing these fakes.
awesome video guys!
Impressive video and I can't agree more with what you said sir!
No I mean what you're saying, government regulation of the internet, would have negative long-term effects. Specifically issues regarding ethics and liberty, like free speech. It's not that regulating scams on the internet is in and of itself bad, but it opens the floodgates for future regulations that could be considered incorrect. There's a reason why things like net neutrality are a battles worth fighting.
"...get started right now, today, and have money deposited in your account by tomorrow......This isn't a get rich quick scheme..."
That's basically a get rich quick scheme. That was simple English, simple words, and if you didn't catch that what he said was contradicting or 'fishy', you're partly guilty of being scammed.
The Internet is more than just Facebook & Twitter. Educate yourself.
Dude! Your screen cannot be positioned against the light. Do you know what that is doing to your eyes?
i pray for people like you, i actually have talents outside of marketing and i actually love the learning experience and transferable business skills. affiliate marketing is a great way to get a good start and the education before being an entrepreneur in any field. i am an unbiased marketer there are even con artists within my primary opportunity but this is for me, not anyone else. if i quit affiliate marketing today, i would be okay. thank you very much.
In America it's either you're a scammer a gangster or a politician to get rich fast
super good video verge
Product Launch Formula. The price of 1997 dollar sounds high but if you have a reasonable list you can easily earn that money back or even make good profits with it.
And also the Video Sales Letter program from Ryan Deiss. This is only 97 dollar, so if you only make a couple of sales per month more because of this program it is already a good investment.
'The Contrapeneur Formula' is a video on UA-cam by Mike Winnitt. Well worth watching
a bit hypocritical dont you think?...but very informational, with clever editing and helpful to people who dont know about these things, so Thank You for making this.