F3800 DIY Friendly Battery System: signaturesolar.com/search.php?ref=ksgadwsb&search_query=anker%20solix%20f3800 One of the Best Fully Off Grid Systems: signaturesolar.com/eg4-flexboss21-14-3-28-6kwh-capacity-eg4-flexboss21-eg4-powerpro-wallmount-battery-bundle-bndl-e0022/?ref=ksgadwsb
As a solar advocate in California, there is one new factor I urge homeowners to consider and that's how well the PV+ESS can do self-consumption since IOUs in CA (like some other states) are very hostile to solar. A typical 5-7kW rooftop PV can put out ~ 50kWh on a good day (spring/fall). Most homeowners install ESS with 13.5kWh-15kWh capacity for cost reasons. This is enough for 4-9pm TOU offset but not enough for full self-consumption. The daily production will far exceed battery capacity and is exported - giving the homeowner little financial benefit under NEM3.0. This is where Tesla shines if the homeowner has a Tesla EV as well (plugged in during daytime). Their integrated software can divert solar production and command the EV to consume the variable excess solar (all other EV chargers will consume a fixed amount), thus using up the excess solar without grid import. This is all SW and requires no additional HW. The Anker AC-coupled system is simplistic and can't do this.
It does appear from Anker's advertising that they are adding this capability. I agree that any of these battery backup systems should integrate with EV's to add run time in case of TOU or outages from aging grid.
If you are not fully off grid and you produce more than you can use at peak times that extra energy just goes back to the grid, you are actually powering your neighbors house at that point. Depending on what state you are in exporting excess power to the grid can some places give you a benefit and some places give you next to nothing. In California currently you get next to nothing if you have a new solar system. If your system was online before 2023 I think you get some payback. In Washington State they guarantee a payback. If you export 1Kwh to the grid you get 1 credit. Then in the winter when you need power from the grid they will give you 1Kwh for that credit. It doesn’t matter what the value of the electricity was at the time. It’s 1kwh for 1kwh. Without that in western Washington the economics of rooftop solar was not really a beneficial thing. With it my 10kw system will be cash positive at the 14 year mark.
If I was to buy one I'd probably choose the Anker, I believe that diversifying our energy is important, being able to use grid power, or solar, wind, or hydro if running water is available that you can use on property...or ICE Generator ) is smart...we always have back up's for our backup! I'm thinking about doing this once I finally own my own home instead of renting one....I'd install it outside the home in a fireproof concrete shed...I'm paranoid of fire, we had one when I was very young...
I personally went with a Sol Ark 15k inverter that allows me to use a generator--(whole house or small gas) and 45kwh LiFePo4 batteries. We are building a house currently, living in fifth wheel RV and totally off grid with this setup. I have a Anker Solix F3800 that I purchase for the fifth wheel. It is good when boon docking for a short period of time. I am not a fan of Tesla due to they usually have proprietary stuff typically....similar to Apple products. Just my thoughts.
@@tonypaca3015 Neither. Battery walls are not permitted in residences in my locale due to risk of fire. Our code making panel is currently reviewing that and may amend the code to allow a certain type, which they wont disclose to the public yet.
I do wish either of these were sold direct to consumers. I assume they will get there eventually but installer middlemen makes things tough. Good review, looks like Tesla has some stiff competition.
I definitely agree. Requiring an installer probably makes sense, but I would much prefer to allow for capable property owners or those wanting to go off grid to have access to purchase directly.
Anker Solix X1 customer support (email today) is saying the generator feature is not [yet] supported: "Unfortunately, we do not yet support a configuration where the generator (or [BEV truck] in this case) is used first, followed by the X1's power." 9:22 I just rewatched and saw the text overlay: "Note that generator charging is not yet enabled. This feature is planned to be launched by the end of 2024."
The dealbreaker for me with the Powerwall is Tesla's iron grip on their products. From being able to charge exclusively from solar, to shutdown of the batteries if there is no cell communication between the batteries and corporate. This is a real problem that I can attest to since I spoke with a tech rep at Tesla and he mentioned that after approximately 72 hrs of no comms between the batteries and support, the batteries will shut down as a safety feature. That would have been a big problem for us since we were out of electricity, water, and cellular communication for several weeks after Hurricane Michael. In other parts of the country where just grid power goes out for a few hours/ a few days and everything else is running would not be an issue.
I have Tesla PowerWalls as that was the only viable product on the market at the time. Now there are way more options for home backup such as this product and EcoFlows stuff. I have never heard that about the cell communication thing before. I'm going to have investigate that! Hopefully there is a workaround. One thing that does annoy me about the PowerWall system is you can't charge them with a generator (not legally anyway).
Is that concern not solvable with Starlink? I have a Powerwall system and have been impacted by several storms (Ian, Idalia, Debby, Helene, Milton) since getting it in 2021. I think anyone with this kind of system would also have Starlink at least for backup comms and only activate it during hurricane season.
I have the Powerwall 3 installed with 17.22kW of solar and you indeed set it to charge only from solar. I also have Anker’s Solix F3800 x2 plus 3 extra external batteries each for a total of 30kWh of capacity using their smart home panel. When the ankers powering the house the Powerwall 3 just sees that there’s no load being pulled so either charges itself or feeds the grid. I have the ankers set up for time of use to charge during peak solar panels times and feeds the house over night. The only drawback with the ankers is even with 2 F3800s, if you don’t run a critical loads panel, it limits to 6kW to the main panel. Overall pretty happy with the setup and how my solar, Tesla Powerwall 3, and anker solix smart panel with the F3800s are working out. A plus with the F3800 is easy expansion- no need for an installer, just order it online and when it comes, plug in the expansion battery.
I have a whole house generator which is a plus for Anker. Anker also has a lithium iron phosphate battery as opposed to Tesla's lithium ion battery packs.
If you are in a VPP (virtual power plant) enabled area I would go for the Tesla Powerwall as it will enable you to get a better ROI on the unit, since VPP will pay you every 6 months for participation.
The video states: if you have a problem with a panel it's going to be harder to find if you have a string inverter. That's really not the most likely situation. For the most part solar panels are bulletproof. A more likely scenario is: the micro inverter failed causing the very problem you were attempting to monitor. Every micro inverter is another failure point and to fix it if it fails you're going to have to climb up on the roof to fix it. A string inverter is at eye level in your garage and easy to fix.
Live in Central Florida. No way I will drill holes in my roof for solar panels. Because of our heat and rain, the penetration will fail over time and result in roof leaks and roof replacement. But the Anker Solix x1 may be a solution for loss of power. Use a generator to charge.
I have a question. I have ordered 4 powerwalls (Actually want 2 Powerwalls and 2 batteries but Tesla webpage only allows you to select Powerwalls). I have 9.5 K solar on roof using DC Optimizers. Are they going to take the AC output of my Solaredge and feed the batteries that way? Would they remove the DC Optimizers from the panels to go in with DC strings? On the question you asked I have no interest to hook up a Gas generator to the system. NIce video
These things are the biggest scam ever created. A traditional generator when you do the math is a lot cheaper than these things and far more practical. But you keep doing you.
Nice comparative video ! Thanks. Maybe I missed it but do they need internet connectivity to operate ? Any limitation there in case you place it in a location without any connectivity ?
Thanks for the update. I’m getting Tesla power wall three and I do have a 20-year-old whole house generator Propane. If the grid is down and no sun, I’ll just run the generator once in a while until the sun shines. it would be nice if there was a generator and put perhaps add it on in the future.
8:43 ... wonder if you can take the 9.6 kW 240v NEMA 14-50 output of the Cybertruck bed and hook it up to the 'generator' input of the Anker system? Seems like it would work just like a generator with a L1 & L2 coming from the generator and there is a neutral balancing transformer in the Anker system to create the 120v capable input into your backup loads.
@@IronmanV5 Sounds like Ford 240v plug in the back is a L14-30 so 7.2 kW. I saw this reference tho for the other related equipment: "The intelligent home backup uses and external inverter. It pulls DC power from the CCS connector for 9.6kW 40A AC @240V. ***** Pro Power on board is limited to 30A on the 240 outlet [7.2 kW]. You can pull another 2.4 kW on the 120 outlets."
@@Scott-sm9nm The problem with the intelligent home backup, and other V2H systems is that they are proprietary and lock you into one make. What I like about the Solix's generator input is that it doesn't care where that input comes from.
Do you know if the Anker is compatible or expandable with their F3800? Would be nice to have the mounted and portable battery systems integrated with the option to control both with one inverter when convenient.
Anker: when you turn main breaker off, power will come to panel from power station. Tesla: power station connected to electricity meter, after switching main breaker off panel will be dead. Tesla is more safe for DIY-ers.
I didn't think Tesla would let you DIY install a powerwall. I was told you have to have a certified Tesla installer perform the turn-up. Has that changed?
@@DG8RS Where I wrote about DIY powerwall installing? I told that powerwall has safe circuit schematics, which keeps panel dead when main breaker is off.
Cool. I like the Tesla Power Wall... However it's not DIY friendly... You need a certified installer. I'm not sure if the X1 requires a certified installer.
1:00 Oddly all the documenation that I've seen for the Tesla Powerwall 3 (and the expansion units thinner and shown in video) are side by side with 3' between them). The example in the video display unit looks like a thicker Powerwall 3 and a thinner Powerwall 3 expansion unit. I'm confused.
The PW3 and the expansion pack are the same size, except the expansion pack is 1" thinner. The PW3 and expansion pack can be stacked together to minimize their footprint. The expansion pack would go against the wall first, because the expansion batteries are not serviceable. The PW3 is on the outside of the stack.
They all have overheat protection built in, however no unit currently out there has fire suppression capabilities, that'd be an entirely separate system you'd have to install if required.
@@bradforrester2417 That is incorrect, Tesla Powerwall 3, EG4, to name a few, do in fact have intergraded fire suppression. Most of the units being built today have integrated FS as more and more municipalities require it.
@@davidh5309 Ahem - the datasheet for Tesla Powerwall 3, no fire suppression capability whatsoever. It has a fire RATING, but that is not suppression. energylibrary.tesla.com/docs/Public/EnergyStorage/Powerwall/3/Datasheet/en-us/Powerwall-3-Datasheet.pdf The EG4 PowerPro has fire ARRESTORS, which are essentially a heat-rated breaker. Again not suppression. eg4electronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PowerPro-WallMount-AW-Brochure.pdf
We just inherited my wires parents' home. The house is completely off-grid with a diesel generator backup and propane backup for the diseil. Her father designed and built his own off grid system in 2000 before this became a thing. He has no idea how much kWh he generates and I have no way to see how much energy we have except an old school gage In the kitchen. I would love to modernize the system but have no idea where to start.
The economics and value of PowerWall 3 is unmatched. That combined with a single unit able to push 11kw means you can have just one unit to support an entire house. Combine it with a large solar array (which would also lower or zero your electric bill) and you can have power indefinitely during power outages. PowerWall 3 is going to severely undermine competition. Even SunRun which used to directly compete with Tesla and did not use Tesla products realized their only way to compete is to offer PW3 as well.
I think the biggest missing topic is compatibility with V2G/V2H … seems like a big win for Tesla. Also, the PW3 can work with existing microinverters (albeit with a cost in efficiency).
Agree on the V2G/V2H. Am I wrong, or isn’t Solix’s generator port supposed to also at least cover V2H? Does Tesla offer V2G/V2H? We are waiting to learn more about the actual Solix generator port when the details are released, including compatibility with generator as well as automobile makes and models We’ve got an existing mixed system (single inverter for 13 panels and microiinverters on each of another 11 panel). We’ve also met with a PW3 and a Solix X1 installer. SOLIX X1 DOES NOT REQUIE ITS OWN MICROINVERTERS. The sole limitation of the Solix X1 vs the PW3, IOHO, is the size of the (start up) draw of say an air conditioning unit. Even a soft start on the A/C might not lower the startup draw enough to not trip the Solix.
I've picked the PW3 w/Gateway3. I'm a tesla geek! I will have it setup to power everything in the house except AC as I really even use it. I want to look into running a small generator if needed. Thanks for the review.
General feedback… when throwing out a lot of that technical/numerical data comparing the products pause for a minute at put a table on screen showing what you’re talking about. Even if it is just for the audience to look at and digest, you don’t have to spend more time repeating it. IMO, it would allow viewers to get more out of your videos.
Be careful if you want to install it in your house. Many municipalities, including NYC don’t allow them in houses because of risk of fire. You will not get a permit for it. If you install it anyway and have a fire, your insurance will deny the claim.
His dismissal of the lack of battery level monitoring with the Tesla as a non-issue is perhaps misguided. A fault in one part of the Tesla battery would take the entire system down. A fault in one of the X1 batteries would be isolated, allowing the system to continue to work with reduced capacity. Stating that shade on one string panel reduces the output of all panels in the string is just not true. This is something the micro-inverter manufacturers have been saying for years but hasn’t been true since panel manufacturers started putting bypass diodes in panels, which is many many years ago. The need of micro-inverters greatly increases the cost of the solar array & degrades the round-trip efficiency. I would prefer DC coupling of the batteries.
Excellent feedback. Thanks for sharing. Is shading on strings really a non-issue? If that's the case, we really need to get that message out. Do you have any resources you recommend that talk about that more?
@@BenjaminSahlstrom There are many UA-cam Channels that have performed some excellent testing to show that panels with bypass diodes perform very well without optimizers or micro-inverters. The only senario that makes these devices mandatory is the requirement for instant shutdown for roof mounted arrays. If you are using a ground mount, you might think long & hard about the cost of optimizers or micro-inverters for so little return in better performance.
Tesla power wall 3 meter collars are catching on fire! 😂😂😂 I installed my own system and pulled a super nice tax credit. Then I said screw you to the building department and electric utility and I do not have a permit and I do not have an interconnection agreement. my system is in PV self consumption mode with zero export. Return on investment is under three years.
@@MichaelMarshall53 do you currently have solar as well, or is that getting installed at the same time? I'm in Massachusetts, and I've been quoted as high as $35,000 to purchase solar only for my home. I don't think I will spend $35,000 in electric before I die. LoL
As someone who is looking at having solar panels put on a hip roof the Anker system's micro inverter has more appeal to my case use. I also own two EVs here in MN one both capable of vehicle to home so while a battery backup is kind of redundant with the vehicles (if I had the v2h systems installed) and at least one vehicle home at the time of an outage. There really isn't a need for me to have dedicated batteries when one vehicle has a 99.8Kw battery pack and the other has a 138Kw battery pack.
one thing to keep in mind about micro inverters is that they seem to fail more than you think. my aunt has them on her house, enphase units and she has had several fail in 4 years, and every time they do you have to go up there and change it which is a royal pain on hers atleast.
I have had a 16kw solar system for 5 years now in MN. I put solar panels on the roof of my pole barn and my garage. When it snows, you need to clean off the panels or they won't work. My first winter with solar sucked. Very little power. The panels on the pole barn roof were too high to get at and clean. the next summer, I had my panels removed from my barn roof and I put in a ground mount. Best thing I ever did. The ground mount tilts for seasonal sun angle. It does not track the sun. Winter sun angle is about 58 degrees. Now cleaning panels in easy and solar power is great. 120 megawatts collected since Oct of 2018.
@@koryleach9660 that is true. I was just saying if you have the option, a ground mount works better in MN. Just trying to give you my experience so you wouldn’t regret the install, without knowing all the options.
It is great that Anker created this product, but you have to buy the Powerwall as Anker must have spent all its money on building it rather than finding someone who can install it. So thanks for the comparison to the Powerwall but the Anker product is not available in the market to buy. You will not get one installed.... so your requests to speak to Anker about this product will go unanswered, and you will waste months waiting vs. just buying a Powerwall if you need one in 2024 or 2025...sorry Anker you are losing your Fanbase with poor product launches. They should have called it...... " So Let Us Waste Your Time X1"
I don't understand why Tesla does not have a pathway for a home generator as backup to recharge the batteries if solar is no longer an option You're in Los Angeles during fires and power outages a giant black cloud covered the city for days making solar generation difficult whereas propane and natural gas was plentiful
Tesla states on its site that the PowerWall can be charged with power from solar panels and the grid. Without a dedicated generator port, it will not be easier to install a Meter Mounted Transfer Switch for Portable Generators so that the generator power would come in as if it were from the grid?
Both are expensive "showoffs". Bought a 12 KW DEYE inverter with 14.4 KW panels 2 years ago & made a 43 kWh 6000 Cycle LFP cell based battery for it. Total cost of that was 25.000 US$ incl. 25% VAT. Micro inverters would be an absolutely no go here. Overhyped and overcomplicating vs. traditional panels which for sure will punish you after some years when they start to fail. Owning a Tesla i would never EVER get s Tesla Powerwall the way the software is flawed in my car and 100% controlled by whatever Tesla/Elon decides is best for them. DYI and save a lot of money.
Ben, you left out a few MAJOR points, for example the USA software is much more reliable and secure than Ankers Chinese software. The tesla powerwalls are more efficient with DC to DC charging Vs Anker taking DC solar panels converted to A/C then back to DC to charge the battery’s Tesla doesn’t have a generator input, but they have a level 2 charger that’s able to bidirectional power you home or the home can power the EV. Thats a HUGE advantage. Tesla has better inrush current support- you briefly mentioned it, but didn’t emphasize how important that is. The Anker and Enphase end up requiring load shedding panels that make the complicated installation even more expensive
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I did mention most of those points, just not exactly how you explained them. The round trip efficiency is pretty similar despite the DC/AC coupled differences. The bidirectional power is a good point that I didn't think to include. Really appreciate the feedback!
I don't find "the home powering the EV" to be a useful feature. Who would want to drain a 13.5kWh ESS into a 75kWh EV? Any ESS system will enable EV charging during grid-outage by allowing the PV to continue operation in off-grid mode. V2H sounds cool but is it really useful? In a prolonged grid outage scenario, both Anker and PW3 can grid-form and enable any AC-coupled rooftop PV during the day. So the ESS capacity only needs to power the home from ~ 6pm-9am. It's useful if the homeowner wants to run a 5 ton AC all day and night. As for Tesla reliability, features, integration, ease-of-install, yes, those are hard to beat.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom The Tesla solution with a Tesla Powerwall 3 and Tesla Cybertruck (Universal Wall Connector aka UWC) is not known/working at this point. It ONLY currently works with other Tesla Powerwall versions AND a special PowerShare Gateway 3V(vehicle).
neither companies have good customer service tesla over designs system for the company convience on call backs at expense of consumer . installers dont care about 'your' property and use cheap inferior connectors and hardware components with shortcuts and sloppy mounting installs ...built my own system solix w 2x f3800w w 8x 3800BP's w tiny 2k solar production and eu7000is to top off since until roof gets standing seam metal upgrade for more solar panels niiice
F3800 DIY Friendly Battery System: signaturesolar.com/search.php?ref=ksgadwsb&search_query=anker%20solix%20f3800
One of the Best Fully Off Grid Systems: signaturesolar.com/eg4-flexboss21-14-3-28-6kwh-capacity-eg4-flexboss21-eg4-powerpro-wallmount-battery-bundle-bndl-e0022/?ref=ksgadwsb
I have no money to buy either of these. Yet I’m watching this video.
I feel the genius with the X1 system is that you only have to afford the cheapest base option then expand as you can.
Yup!
I am trying to figure out how much it costs to get the Anker Solix X1?
Most of us!
LOL, same, I think we're all there.
As a solar advocate in California, there is one new factor I urge homeowners to consider and that's how well the PV+ESS can do self-consumption since IOUs in CA (like some other states) are very hostile to solar. A typical 5-7kW rooftop PV can put out ~ 50kWh on a good day (spring/fall). Most homeowners install ESS with 13.5kWh-15kWh capacity for cost reasons. This is enough for 4-9pm TOU offset but not enough for full self-consumption. The daily production will far exceed battery capacity and is exported - giving the homeowner little financial benefit under NEM3.0. This is where Tesla shines if the homeowner has a Tesla EV as well (plugged in during daytime). Their integrated software can divert solar production and command the EV to consume the variable excess solar (all other EV chargers will consume a fixed amount), thus using up the excess solar without grid import. This is all SW and requires no additional HW. The Anker AC-coupled system is simplistic and can't do this.
It does appear from Anker's advertising that they are adding this capability. I agree that any of these battery backup systems should integrate with EV's to add run time in case of TOU or outages from aging grid.
If you aren't going off grid, how does extra power come into play?
If you are not fully off grid and you produce more than you can use at peak times that extra energy just goes back to the grid, you are actually powering your neighbors house at that point.
Depending on what state you are in exporting excess power to the grid can some places give you a benefit and some places give you next to nothing.
In California currently you get next to nothing if you have a new solar system. If your system was online before 2023 I think you get some payback.
In Washington State they guarantee a payback. If you export 1Kwh to the grid you get 1 credit. Then in the winter when you need power from the grid they will give you 1Kwh for that credit. It doesn’t matter what the value of the electricity was at the time. It’s 1kwh for 1kwh.
Without that in western Washington the economics of rooftop solar was not really a beneficial thing. With it my 10kw system will be cash positive at the 14 year mark.
The Anker will be my favourite Choice 👍👍👍
What’s the price difference ?????
If I was to buy one I'd probably choose the Anker, I believe that diversifying our energy is important, being able to use grid power, or solar, wind, or hydro if running water is available that you can use on property...or ICE Generator ) is smart...we always have back up's for our backup!
I'm thinking about doing this once I finally own my own home instead of renting one....I'd install it outside the home in a fireproof concrete shed...I'm paranoid of fire, we had one when I was very young...
Great comparison video. Thank you for doing this.
The fact the Anker DOES have the ability to connect to a gas generator is a huge plus
I personally went with a Sol Ark 15k inverter that allows me to use a generator--(whole house or small gas) and 45kwh LiFePo4 batteries. We are building a house currently, living in fifth wheel RV and totally off grid with this setup.
I have a Anker Solix F3800 that I purchase for the fifth wheel. It is good when boon docking for a short period of time.
I am not a fan of Tesla due to they usually have proprietary stuff typically....similar to Apple products. Just my thoughts.
I want the option to connect a generator also. I like the X1
I like what Anker has to offer.
Anker is Made with Chineseium parts and assembled with Chineseium labor. Tesla. Is Made in USA.
@@bills6946and Musk is funding trump and sucking up to him. That should be a turnoff on its own.
@@bills6946 Over 90% of Tesla's vehicle components are manufactured in China.
@@bills6946 would you buy Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery for your house? i wouldnt. LFP all day long
@@tonypaca3015
Neither. Battery walls are not permitted in residences in my locale due to risk of fire. Our code making panel is currently reviewing that and may amend the code to allow a certain type, which they wont disclose to the public yet.
I do wish either of these were sold direct to consumers. I assume they will get there eventually but installer middlemen makes things tough. Good review, looks like Tesla has some stiff competition.
I definitely agree. Requiring an installer probably makes sense, but I would much prefer to allow for capable property owners or those wanting to go off grid to have access to purchase directly.
Exact reason I went with EG4 products. Tesla installation wanted 100k for a system I did for 18k.
Anker Solix X1 customer support (email today) is saying the generator feature is not [yet] supported: "Unfortunately, we do not yet support a configuration where the generator (or [BEV truck] in this case) is used first, followed by the X1's power." 9:22 I just rewatched and saw the text overlay: "Note that generator charging is not yet enabled. This feature is planned to be launched by the end of 2024."
Hopefully they'll be prompt in releasing this feature.
The dealbreaker for me with the Powerwall is Tesla's iron grip on their products. From being able to charge exclusively from solar, to shutdown of the batteries if there is no cell communication between the batteries and corporate. This is a real problem that I can attest to since I spoke with a tech rep at Tesla and he mentioned that after approximately 72 hrs of no comms between the batteries and support, the batteries will shut down as a safety feature. That would have been a big problem for us since we were out of electricity, water, and cellular communication for several weeks after Hurricane Michael. In other parts of the country where just grid power goes out for a few hours/ a few days and everything else is running would not be an issue.
I have Tesla PowerWalls as that was the only viable product on the market at the time. Now there are way more options for home backup such as this product and EcoFlows stuff. I have never heard that about the cell communication thing before. I'm going to have investigate that! Hopefully there is a workaround. One thing that does annoy me about the PowerWall system is you can't charge them with a generator (not legally anyway).
Is that concern not solvable with Starlink? I have a Powerwall system and have been impacted by several storms (Ian, Idalia, Debby, Helene, Milton) since getting it in 2021. I think anyone with this kind of system would also have Starlink at least for backup comms and only activate it during hurricane season.
@@kairojya Smart thinking.
I have the Powerwall 3 installed with 17.22kW of solar and you indeed set it to charge only from solar. I also have Anker’s Solix F3800 x2 plus 3 extra external batteries each for a total of 30kWh of capacity using their smart home panel. When the ankers powering the house the Powerwall 3 just sees that there’s no load being pulled so either charges itself or feeds the grid. I have the ankers set up for time of use to charge during peak solar panels times and feeds the house over night. The only drawback with the ankers is even with 2 F3800s, if you don’t run a critical loads panel, it limits to 6kW to the main panel. Overall pretty happy with the setup and how my solar, Tesla Powerwall 3, and anker solix smart panel with the F3800s are working out. A plus with the F3800 is easy expansion- no need for an installer, just order it online and when it comes, plug in the expansion battery.
They can charge from the grid
I have a whole house generator which is a plus for Anker. Anker also has a lithium iron phosphate battery as opposed to Tesla's lithium ion battery packs.
I believe Tesla has updated to LFP now too.
I’m looking at the Eg4 flex box and grid box.
If you are in a VPP (virtual power plant) enabled area I would go for the Tesla Powerwall as it will enable you to get a better ROI on the unit, since VPP will pay you every 6 months for participation.
I like the Anker and agree with your thought about having a US software team.
The video states: if you have a problem with a panel it's going to be harder to find if you have a string inverter.
That's really not the most likely situation. For the most part solar panels are bulletproof. A more likely scenario is: the micro inverter failed causing the very problem you were attempting to monitor. Every micro inverter is another failure point and to fix it if it fails you're going to have to climb up on the roof to fix it. A string inverter is at eye level in your garage and easy to fix.
That would be sorta badass if you could actually buy a pack that is set up exactly like the Anker with the lights inside.
Live in Central Florida. No way I will drill holes in my roof for solar panels. Because of our heat and rain, the penetration will fail over time and result in roof leaks and roof replacement. But the Anker Solix x1 may be a solution for loss of power. Use a generator to charge.
Can Anker be used in conjunction with a PowerWall 3?
I need more info but I’m liking the X1 at the moment.
No generator input was a deal breaker for me for the Powerwall 3, which is a shame as I would have preferred the Powerwall 3.
Great video!
I have a question. I have ordered 4 powerwalls (Actually want 2 Powerwalls and 2 batteries but Tesla webpage only allows you to select Powerwalls). I have 9.5 K solar on roof using DC Optimizers. Are they going to take the AC output of my Solaredge and feed the batteries that way? Would they remove the DC Optimizers from the panels to go in with DC strings? On the question you asked I have no interest to hook up a Gas generator to the system. NIce video
I have Anker batteries, reliability 100%
These things are the biggest scam ever created. A traditional generator when you do the math is a lot cheaper than these things and far more practical. But you keep doing you.
how many gas cans do you have? wife cant lift and fill gen using 5gal gas can if im not there ....errr do you have propane tank on property?
Grid charge is an option in the Tesla app.
Wow such a good job… well done
Nice comparative video ! Thanks.
Maybe I missed it but do they need internet connectivity to operate ? Any limitation there in case you place it in a location without any connectivity ?
Operating Temperature is Discharging. Low temp charging is the key for cold weather outdoor installations
But at 3:30 you said that the Tesla PW has "string inverters", I do believe that it CAN be configured for microinverters too.
Can I use a wind turbine on either of these?
How does the enphase compare?
Minnesota gets much colder then -4 anytime during the winter
That is a lot of weight on the jaws of your socket with the extender and most electric providers don’t allow them
Unbelievable, this is so cool
Thanks for the update. I’m getting Tesla power wall three and I do have a 20-year-old whole house generator Propane. If the grid is down and no sun, I’ll just run the generator once in a while until the sun shines. it would be nice if there was a generator and put perhaps add it on in the future.
8:43 ... wonder if you can take the 9.6 kW 240v NEMA 14-50 output of the Cybertruck bed and hook it up to the 'generator' input of the Anker system? Seems like it would work just like a generator with a L1 & L2 coming from the generator and there is a neutral balancing transformer in the Anker system to create the 120v capable input into your backup loads.
Or the 240v outlets from the Lightning or GM Trucks
@@IronmanV5 Are those both: 30 amps / 7.2 kW ?
@@Scott-sm9nm The Ford can do 9.6 and the GMs are 7.2.
@@IronmanV5 Sounds like Ford 240v plug in the back is a L14-30 so 7.2 kW. I saw this reference tho for the other related equipment: "The intelligent home backup uses and external inverter. It pulls DC power from the CCS connector for 9.6kW 40A AC @240V. ***** Pro Power on board is limited to 30A on the 240 outlet [7.2 kW]. You can pull another 2.4 kW on the 120 outlets."
@@Scott-sm9nm The problem with the intelligent home backup, and other V2H systems is that they are proprietary and lock you into one make.
What I like about the Solix's generator input is that it doesn't care where that input comes from.
Great Information.
I would go Anker, and if not then the Delta Pro Ultra
Can I use it in a van?
I reached out to anker when this was first launched but never heard back.
Update: November and still no response from anker
No surprise here for Anker
How much solar can the Anker SOLIX X1 handle. I have 10kw of solar panels. Would I need 2 X1’s or can I use just a 5kwh X1 with that?
Do you know if the Anker is compatible or expandable with their F3800? Would be nice to have the mounted and portable battery systems integrated with the option to control both with one inverter when convenient.
That would be sweet. Unfortunately the F3800 and the X1 can't be used together directly as far as I am aware.
cost comparison?
Comparison with ecoflow?
Anker: when you turn main breaker off, power will come to panel from power station.
Tesla: power station connected to electricity meter, after switching main breaker off panel will be dead.
Tesla is more safe for DIY-ers.
I didn't think Tesla would let you DIY install a powerwall. I was told you have to have a certified Tesla installer perform the turn-up. Has that changed?
@@DG8RS Where I wrote about DIY powerwall installing? I told that powerwall has safe circuit schematics, which keeps panel dead when main breaker is off.
Both the X1 and the PW3 require professional installation.
What’s the best way to use
My ford F-150 Lighting to power my home ?
Read the manual?
Cool. I like the Tesla Power Wall... However it's not DIY friendly... You need a certified installer. I'm not sure if the X1 requires a certified installer.
Can I make money off the energy systems using the virtual power plant mark
What are the base prices?
They're similar. I believe it's around 10k for the PW3 (13.5kwh) and 11k for the X1 (15kwh stack).
1:00 Oddly all the documenation that I've seen for the Tesla Powerwall 3 (and the expansion units thinner and shown in video) are side by side with 3' between them). The example in the video display unit looks like a thicker Powerwall 3 and a thinner Powerwall 3 expansion unit. I'm confused.
I believe you're correct that it's a PW3 and a battery-only PW3 behind it.
The PW3 and the expansion pack are the same size, except the expansion pack is 1" thinner. The PW3 and expansion pack can be stacked together to minimize their footprint. The expansion pack would go against the wall first, because the expansion batteries are not serviceable. The PW3 is on the outside of the stack.
Do any of these units monitor for heat or have fire suppression capabilities?
They all have overheat protection built in, however no unit currently out there has fire suppression capabilities, that'd be an entirely separate system you'd have to install if required.
@@bradforrester2417 That is incorrect, Tesla Powerwall 3, EG4, to name a few, do in fact have intergraded fire suppression. Most of the units being built today have integrated FS as more and more municipalities require it.
@@davidh5309 Ahem - the datasheet for Tesla Powerwall 3, no fire suppression capability whatsoever. It has a fire RATING, but that is not suppression. energylibrary.tesla.com/docs/Public/EnergyStorage/Powerwall/3/Datasheet/en-us/Powerwall-3-Datasheet.pdf
The EG4 PowerPro has fire ARRESTORS, which are essentially a heat-rated breaker. Again not suppression. eg4electronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PowerPro-WallMount-AW-Brochure.pdf
We just inherited my wires parents' home. The house is completely off-grid with a diesel generator backup and propane backup for the diseil. Her father designed and built his own off grid system in 2000 before this became a thing. He has no idea how much kWh he generates and I have no way to see how much energy we have except an old school gage In the kitchen. I would love to modernize the system but have no idea where to start.
Not sure what system would work best since we have zero energy from the grid.
The economics and value of PowerWall 3 is unmatched. That combined with a single unit able to push 11kw means you can have just one unit to support an entire house. Combine it with a large solar array (which would also lower or zero your electric bill) and you can have power indefinitely during power outages.
PowerWall 3 is going to severely undermine competition. Even SunRun which used to directly compete with Tesla and did not use Tesla products realized their only way to compete is to offer PW3 as well.
I think the biggest missing topic is compatibility with V2G/V2H … seems like a big win for Tesla. Also, the PW3 can work with existing microinverters (albeit with a cost in efficiency).
Agree on the V2G/V2H. Am I wrong, or isn’t Solix’s generator port supposed to also at least cover V2H? Does Tesla offer V2G/V2H? We are waiting to learn more about the actual Solix generator port when the details are released, including compatibility with generator as well as automobile makes and models
We’ve got an existing mixed system (single inverter for 13 panels and microiinverters on each of another 11 panel). We’ve also met with a PW3 and a Solix X1 installer. SOLIX X1 DOES NOT REQUIE ITS OWN MICROINVERTERS.
The sole limitation of the Solix X1 vs the PW3, IOHO, is the size of the (start up) draw of say an air conditioning unit. Even a soft start on the A/C might not lower the startup draw enough to not trip the Solix.
I've picked the PW3 w/Gateway3. I'm a tesla geek! I will have it setup to power everything in the house except AC as I really even use it. I want to look into running a small generator if needed. Thanks for the review.
Have the Anker out to your outside power sources then into the Tesla Power Wall :)
Does either work with existing solar panels that are AC coupled?
Yes, both can work with existing AC coupled panels, although the wattage input on the PW3 is limited a bit.
You can get the PW3. Anker can't even respond to sell these in our market.
Tesla has LFP batteries. What does the Anker have?
The Solix X1 utilizes Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4).
Can you keep on Tesla about the option to charge the Powerwalls with a generator? Thanks
Yeah if the powerwalls had support for generators and could use either string or micro inverters that would just make them perfect.
How much
They're both around $10k but it really depends on the installer.
pw3 ❤
General feedback… when throwing out a lot of that technical/numerical data comparing the products pause for a minute at put a table on screen showing what you’re talking about. Even if it is just for the audience to look at and digest, you don’t have to spend more time repeating it.
IMO, it would allow viewers to get more out of your videos.
Be careful if you want to install it in your house. Many municipalities, including NYC don’t allow them in houses because of risk of fire. You will not get a permit for it. If you install it anyway and have a fire, your insurance will deny the claim.
Did you hear any dates yet?
Sometime "soon" I believe! ;)
What's a watt? And why do you need a thousand of them? J.k.
Absolutely.
His dismissal of the lack of battery level monitoring with the Tesla as a non-issue is perhaps misguided. A fault in one part of the Tesla battery would take the entire system down. A fault in one of the X1 batteries would be isolated, allowing the system to continue to work with reduced capacity. Stating that shade on one string panel reduces the output of all panels in the string is just not true. This is something the micro-inverter manufacturers have been saying for years but hasn’t been true since panel manufacturers started putting bypass diodes in panels, which is many many years ago. The need of micro-inverters greatly increases the cost of the solar array & degrades the round-trip efficiency. I would prefer DC coupling of the batteries.
Excellent feedback. Thanks for sharing. Is shading on strings really a non-issue? If that's the case, we really need to get that message out. Do you have any resources you recommend that talk about that more?
@@BenjaminSahlstrom There are many UA-cam Channels that have performed some excellent testing to show that panels with bypass diodes perform very well without optimizers or micro-inverters. The only senario that makes these devices mandatory is the requirement for instant shutdown for roof mounted arrays. If you are using a ground mount, you might think long & hard about the cost of optimizers or micro-inverters for so little return in better performance.
I wish these ran at 1000VDC. I'd like to separate the batteries and inverter.
NEMA 4 is NOT corrosion resistant. It would need to have a NEMA 4X rating for use in a salty or corrosive environment..
Thanks for the clarification. Anker does advertise corrosion resistance so maybe it is NEMA 4X?
Is Anker UL listed and approved for home installation? Check carefully before installing.
@@bills6946 Yes!
@@bills6946 It is, safety certificates are available on their website currently.
Local solar company wanted $20K to add a Tesla battery to our home solar system Said no thanks.
Tesla power wall 3 meter collars are catching on fire! 😂😂😂 I installed my own system and pulled a super nice tax credit. Then I said screw you to the building department and electric utility and I do not have a permit and I do not have an interconnection agreement. my system is in PV self consumption mode with zero export. Return on investment is under three years.
No prices here or on their web site. I think we all know what that means.
Well, if it ain't price, it's because they won't sell it direct without a "professional installer".
I'm getting the Anker Solix X1 installed and my cost from the installer is $22k for 2 power modules (12kw) and 6 batteries (30kwh).
@@MichaelMarshall53 do you currently have solar as well, or is that getting installed at the same time? I'm in Massachusetts, and I've been quoted as high as $35,000 to purchase solar only for my home. I don't think I will spend $35,000 in electric before I die. LoL
@@m3rdpwr no I'm getting solar installed too. For the entire system it's $36k. $35k just for solar... that's a hard pill to swallow.
A Tesla powerwall, sold to an Installer, is $7400. Now ya know. But yes, you have to be a Tesla certified install partner to be able to purchase.
Ecoflow 😍
I can't find anywhere the banker advertises to off-grid properties.
Installing time in huge favor for Tesla. So is software
WoW
IMO I think the Big Battery Ethos is a better option than either Anker or Tesla.
Why? Also can you charge the battery from a generator hook-up (as a priority)? ie. run generator during the afternoon and be silent overnight
1 of 2253 Red dot 2024 winner.... first time to know red dot got sooooo many winner.
Would like TESLA to be able to connect generator to charge batteries
Solix has a generator input. Win.
As someone who is looking at having solar panels put on a hip roof the Anker system's micro inverter has more appeal to my case use. I also own two EVs here in MN one both capable of vehicle to home so while a battery backup is kind of redundant with the vehicles (if I had the v2h systems installed) and at least one vehicle home at the time of an outage. There really isn't a need for me to have dedicated batteries when one vehicle has a 99.8Kw battery pack and the other has a 138Kw battery pack.
one thing to keep in mind about micro inverters is that they seem to fail more than you think. my aunt has them on her house, enphase units and she has had several fail in 4 years, and every time they do you have to go up there and change it which is a royal pain on hers atleast.
I have had a 16kw solar system for 5 years now in MN. I put solar panels on the roof of my pole barn and my garage. When it snows, you need to clean off the panels or they won't work. My first winter with solar sucked. Very little power. The panels on the pole barn roof were too high to get at and clean. the next summer, I had my panels removed from my barn roof and I put in a ground mount. Best thing I ever did. The ground mount tilts for seasonal sun angle. It does not track the sun. Winter sun angle is about 58 degrees. Now cleaning panels in easy and solar power is great. 120 megawatts collected since Oct of 2018.
Interesting. Hopefully they have improved the reliability over the years. Will be interesting to see how the Anker MI80 performs over time.
@@beefitter that works in rural/ farmsteads. Not so much in suburbs unfortunately.
@@koryleach9660 that is true. I was just saying if you have the option, a ground mount works better in MN. Just trying to give you my experience so you wouldn’t regret the install, without knowing all the options.
I want my power cables to light up like that.
for a regular house what is the best bang for your buck?
It is great that Anker created this product, but you have to buy the Powerwall as Anker must have spent all its money on building it rather than finding someone who can install it. So thanks for the comparison to the Powerwall but the Anker product is not available in the market to buy. You will not get one installed.... so your requests to speak to Anker about this product will go unanswered, and you will waste months waiting vs. just buying a Powerwall if you need one in 2024 or 2025...sorry Anker you are losing your Fanbase with poor product launches. They should have called it...... " So Let Us Waste Your Time X1"
I don't understand why Tesla does not have a pathway for a home generator as backup to recharge the batteries if solar is no longer an option
You're in Los Angeles during fires and power outages a giant black cloud covered the city for days making solar generation difficult whereas propane and natural gas was plentiful
Tesla states on its site that the PowerWall can be charged with power from solar panels and the grid. Without a dedicated generator port, it will not be easier to install a Meter Mounted Transfer Switch for Portable Generators so that the generator power would come in as if it were from the grid?
Both are expensive "showoffs". Bought a 12 KW DEYE inverter with 14.4 KW panels 2 years ago & made a 43 kWh 6000 Cycle LFP cell based battery for it. Total cost of that was 25.000 US$ incl. 25% VAT. Micro inverters would be an absolutely no go here. Overhyped and overcomplicating vs. traditional panels which for sure will punish you after some years when they start to fail. Owning a Tesla i would never EVER get s Tesla Powerwall the way the software is flawed in my car and 100% controlled by whatever Tesla/Elon decides is best for them. DYI and save a lot of money.
Buy Anker (Chinese made) X1 not a Tesla!😊 That is the only choice available in my opinion!
10k per unit for powerwall, more or less. That is per the " this old house" website.
He completely missed the additional battery packs that you can run with the Tesla power wall.
The Tesla features are oout dated. Anker monitoring and configuration is more advance.
I like the Anker features and the fact that it is 100% Musk-free.
You do know there are more employees at Tesla, like a lot more.
Supporting the CCP and not 100,000 american jobs is wild.
How many affordable server rack batteries can I add? Oh none,well Then they can pound sand!
Definitely not a great solution for interoperability with components from other manufacturers...
Ben, you left out a few MAJOR points, for example the USA software is much more reliable and secure than Ankers Chinese software.
The tesla powerwalls are more efficient with DC to DC charging Vs Anker taking DC solar panels converted to A/C then back to DC to charge the battery’s
Tesla doesn’t have a generator input, but they have a level 2 charger that’s able to bidirectional power you home or the home can power the EV. Thats a HUGE advantage.
Tesla has better inrush current support- you briefly mentioned it, but didn’t emphasize how important that is. The Anker and Enphase end up requiring load shedding panels that make the complicated installation even more expensive
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I did mention most of those points, just not exactly how you explained them. The round trip efficiency is pretty similar despite the DC/AC coupled differences. The bidirectional power is a good point that I didn't think to include.
Really appreciate the feedback!
I don't find "the home powering the EV" to be a useful feature. Who would want to drain a 13.5kWh ESS into a 75kWh EV? Any ESS system will enable EV charging during grid-outage by allowing the PV to continue operation in off-grid mode.
V2H sounds cool but is it really useful? In a prolonged grid outage scenario, both Anker and PW3 can grid-form and enable any AC-coupled rooftop PV during the day. So the ESS capacity only needs to power the home from ~ 6pm-9am. It's useful if the homeowner wants to run a 5 ton AC all day and night.
As for Tesla reliability, features, integration, ease-of-install, yes, those are hard to beat.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom The Tesla solution with a Tesla Powerwall 3 and Tesla Cybertruck (Universal Wall Connector aka UWC) is not known/working at this point. It ONLY currently works with other Tesla Powerwall versions AND a special PowerShare Gateway 3V(vehicle).
Cool, but .... too expensive
Crap is so expensive that is hard to mention the price
neither companies have good customer service tesla over designs system for the company convience on call backs at expense of consumer . installers dont care about 'your' property and use cheap inferior connectors and hardware components with shortcuts and sloppy mounting installs ...built my own system solix w 2x f3800w w 8x 3800BP's w tiny 2k solar production and eu7000is to top off since until roof gets standing seam metal upgrade for more solar panels niiice
A+ segment TY my tesla solar quote was $233,000 ugh 2packs and only 50% roof capacity ACTIVE solar tiles