The UK/England will be vetoed out from joining the EUs political union as a full EU member state; that is a given now. They can join the Single Market and EEA though, given that the UK accepts the terms. But a British PM will never again sit at the European Council with the 27 other PMs and Presidents of the EU member states.
The English showed their true colours when the Tories voted The Liar to become their party-leader and the voters rewarded this with an 80-seats majority.
@@jmolofsson True we wanted to get out of the political control of the EU. If the EU was still just the trade cooperation organisation that we joined. We would probability still be in.
@@grahamsmith9541 In 1973, the UK joined a Union with a goal for integration (industrial, political, etc) Already at that time the Britts were cherry-picking. It got worse over the years but now its over! Adieu le Royaume Uni
I love it. They talk about, 'should we join ...'. This is not the question. UK is already changing rules and regulations. There are already new trade deals, which are not conform with EU rules. And for sure, in the near future laws are changing. If UK want to join again, it will be a new application. The EU will discuss it with the member states. The standards as a new member state have to be existing. It is not, ' do we want to join'. It is, 'what to we have to do, that the EU accepts us'. Always the same exceptionalism. When will UK learn, that it is not what they want. The world is not circling around UK.
Correction: The EU won't "discuss it _with_ the member-countries" because the EU _is_ the member-countries. A re-entry into the customs union, like e.g. Turkey is a member of the customs union, will be discussed *between* the member-countries.
@@jmolofsson generally correct. The EU is the member countries. But in this discussions on social media, the EU is the commission and not the member states. Therefore: UK would go via the EU commission and the EU commission will discuss it with the EU parlament and the member states and finally the member states need to aprove it with NO veto. The video was entering the EU, not beding part of the single market and customs union. Turkey is at this stage not part of the EU and is also not part of the single market.
@@marialana3502 That's the root of the problem, the EU is not the member countries, it is a tiny elite cabal gradually taking over the member countries. Nobody votes for the people who actually run it, they choose themselves. And if you disagree with them they attack you, look at Poland and Hungary at the moment, the EU is trying to force them to change their laws !!! Can you imagine, an unelected cabal is trying to force democracies to change their laws?
@@Iain1962 I see it completly different. Take UK. Who is elected? Nothing more than the Torry party. Maybe they got elected because of Johnson, maybe because of the party. But not evey minister is elected. In UK the head of state is not elected, the house of Lords also not. The civil servants, which are doing the work including preperation of laws are not elected. Countries have different systems, but all are runned more or less the same. In Germany the President is not elected, in Austria he is. But the generall differences are small. The EU commission is not elected but goes according to majority votes of party. VdL is from the Christ Democrates, which had majority in the election of parlament. EU parlament is elected. Therefore, nothing different to a single country. Now about Poland and Hungary. The laws, we are talking are not the general laws. They are against homan rights as the EU sees it and this homan rights are originally agreed by this countries. The parlament in this countries have been elected with big power. There is nearly no oposition at the moment. Hungary is changing laws of free speech and rights for Homosexuals. Poland the rights of Homosexuals and woman. Even the EU commission want to do something against it, they need approval from the member states. Your problem is not, that they are unelected. This you have in your own country. The problem for you is, that you prefer to follow orders from your own unelected people, than from the unelected people of the EU. If tomorrow the Torries are changing homan rights laws, nobody will try to stop them. Like nobody tries to stop Erdogan on changing woman rights. For Hungary and Poland, there is a possibility to interfere. The EU is a law maker and ruler, with more oposition than any other system has. 1. EU commission, leaded by the biggest party of the member states, but all parties included. 2. EU parlament with representavies of all EU parties. 3. National parlaments with the different leading parties of the countries. Tell me, what opposition to you have in UK? Torry, ????? A country without opposition is called, ...? If you are worried, that the EU could become a federation, I don't believe so. But it looks to me that the German, Swiss or Austrian federations are working quiet well.
@@marialana3502 The Eu wouldn't know what a fair election is. The MEPs the only bit that the citizens can vote for, who cannot propose law, but are merely a rubber stamp department, and they choose themselves. The D'hondt system means it is all lists, the parties choose who is top of each list, why do you think Verhofstadt is always there? His party only has 2 seats, or even Farage, he made sure he was top of the list in an area that was bound to get at least one seat for UKIP so he was guaranteed a seat. That's not democracy, it's not even close. The President of the Commission is not elected at all and has the most power, the President is chosen in a back room AFTER the election by the outgoing oleaders. That's called a dynasty. In the UK we vote seat per seat for a person. A bad person no matter what party they are running for has no chance of being elected, but in the EU they are guranteed a seat. The EU also ignore referendum results, France the Netherlands, Ireland etc etc. They actually do the opposite of what the people vote for. Now you can live under that system if you like, but then again you like tyrants taking power in Europe, you make a habit of it and then we have to come along and clear it all up. Napoleon the Kaiser that other Austrian chap and now the EU, happens all the time, and we always have to come and save you.
One of the conditions for getting back is that England should not be as condescending and arrogant towards continentals. They feel so far superior, they cannot cooperate or negotiate, only dictate. The UK has gotten one special exception treatment after another and STILL it was not enough. For the EU, it is good riddence. The arrogance and feelings of superiority are really humongous among the English. Not the Scots or Irish, only the English. Perhaps it can't be helped. They expect everybody to speak English to them and they themselves tend to know no foreign languages at all. Now, when a non-native speaker speaks English to a native speaker of English, the native speaker automatically thinks his interlocutor is inferior because his English is faulty. I think the English would be more humble if everyone in the world would speak German or French or Mandarin or Russian. I hail from The Netherlands and as nobody speaks Dutch, I have to be able to speak English, French, German to make myself understood. And then I know some Spanish and can understand Swedish and Italian. Now, how's that for being inferior to the beerbelly in the pub who feels himself to be far far above any 'bloody foreigner'?
Why would we speak a language of people we couldn't careless about?. We won't be back because most of us hate the EU and always will. Infact I think they are our enemy now and we should treat them as such
The "rejoin" campaign still haven't conjured up a positive case FOR eu membership. They are still trying to tear strips out of the vote to leave. a. They tried that for five solid years. b. They failed, _bad._ c. The UK electorate is not the slightest bit interested in "rejoining" the EU. d. Remoaners and rejoiners simply alienate themselves by carrying on like this... it's tedious and we're not interested. e. The UK is joining CPTPP. CPTPP is set for remarkable _growth_ while the EU SM is in steady decline as a share of GDP. So the rejoiners will not have that argument. f. The behaviour of the EU in the last five years, even till today, is vaccination against membership. The UK electorate _don't like the EU very much, at all._ g. The recent Batley and Spen by election is a very good indication... the "Rejoin EU" party garnered a _risible, _*_75 votes_* and to put that into context, the "Monster Raving Looney Party" was substantially more popular, garnering *107 votes,* a full *42% MORE* than the "Rejoin EU" crowd. 😎
Cptpp? Psssst. Guess what. They've got an unelected commission that actually does make rules. What was Canada's experience of joining....job losses, wages shrinking due to increased immigration.
I would personally not be opposed to them rejoining as long as they are rejoining by our standards. They have to use the Euro they have to conform to our social and economic norms. Like any other newcomer. You want in? Then display the spirit of the current EU and we talk.
As a tri national (French Irish and English) for the foreseeable it is "nul point " on the GB re joining the EU . Too much damage has been caused by Johnson's Government.
I fully understand the Brexiteers mindset and why they are getting more and more bitter towards the EU is because they want to be completely sovereign but live exactly the same life as if it is still a member. It cannot stand being treated as a third country. They are asking for the impossible because they live in the cloud. They cannot have it both ways so this is where their problem comes from.
Remember the statement during the referndum where the leave camp said that we could leave and retain all the benefits. Completely wrong of course as is now obvious to anyone with perhaps a little prompting.
@@vincentkermorgant They can beg, they can plead they can cry. We'll just sit back and help ourselves to a second serving and a good glass of wine while their shelves are empty.
There is no doubt that attitudes have to change here in the UK before a rejoin attempt is made. Brexit was achieved by a sustained anti-EU message over 15-20 years by *some* Conservative MPs and amplified by the (somewhat substantial) right-wing Murdoch media. It also has to be remembered that the referendum in 2016 was heavily influenced by that media, plenty of ‘dark money’ (mainly from US Republicans), Russian interference and communications usually used by military ‘psychological operations’ targeted using help from Cambridge Analytica (owned by a hard right US Republican). In terms of demographics, older people were more susceptible to this messaging & influence and were the ones that pushed the vote to leave - the young mainly didn’t & are pro-EU. That demographic is now clearly shifting (as the years pass) with the young becoming more pro-EU and dominant. Despite all this, 16m people voted to remain and that number is only going to increase in the next 5-10 years. The bottom-line here is that the picture is complicated and the UK has been affected by the message and money of hard-right populists, just as France and other countries are currently. We are not all EU haters and once COVID passes and the true damage of Brexit becomes clear, both economically and politically, the public and political mood should change. And don’t forget, Scotland voted 62% to remain, is likely to become independent (which was also triggered by Brexit) and they are pro-EU and are seeking to rejoin. So, please bear these things in mind, understand the underlying causes and the fact that this could’ve happened to any EU country in the current climate.
@@northyorkshirechris5735 The weak support for the European Union from purported pro-Europeans is a difference between Britain and other old EU-members. Central Europe might be different, but even in Italy or Greece, there is no comparison to the UK.
First of all forget about “rejoining”. EU treaties do not provide any way for a former member to “rejoin” and go back to the status quo ante. UK could apply to “join” under A49 and would be treated the same as any other applicant. Secondly, if ever UK joins the EU a second time, the deal will not include all the nifty opt outs and rebates it used to enjoy. And most importantly, EU is not masochistic. We will not let UK in as long as there is a chance we will get a Brexit 2.0 in the following generation. UK will need to revamp its constitution and voting system and stay in the EEA as a well behaved rule-taker for a few decades before it’s allowed back into the decision room.
Am absolutely flabbergasted that you two have not spent a single word on the views of the EU and the damage the UK has and is doing to its trustworthyness. After all the UK doesn’t have a right to (re)join anything, it would need to be granted by parties that are now treated as enemies by the UK.
- abolish FPTP - reform social policies - get a written constitution (to prevent these types of mishaps) - implement UBI - separate government from bureaucrats - reign in the (social)media
Gentlemen, you are discussing joining the single market and customs union. Thence advancing into the EEA and EFTA. Do you grasp that England has already been politely refused by the EEA and EFTA?
Why would the EU re-admit one of its biggest trouble makers of the last decade? For many years now, the Great British electorate picked whoever they considered sane for their councils and constituencies - but sent their obstructionist crazies to the EU parliament in Strasbourg. It's always just been a cherrypicking exercise with an approval rate of 55% at its maximum - and every temporary downturn was weaponized to bargain additional concessions. I think the UK should only be re-admitted at standard membership conditions and with a clear majority of at least 75% in a referendum. And if that never happens, so be it - the EU has enough troublemakers at its fringes as is....
Simple. They're rich. The UK was the second largest contributor to the budget of the EU and the UK is the EU's third largest trade partner only behind China and the US. Most Brits do want to return to the EU, with the majority of the people who abstained from the referendum are now pro-EU. Ofc, this all purely speculation. As long as Boris is the PM, there is a snowball's chance in hell that they're returning. And even then, Macron might still block them from re-entering like what he's doing to the Balkans.
@@ashadow4313 Well, let's see how "rich" they'll be once BoJo and his acolytes are done with them. And again - even if there is a majority for rejoining now, how stable could that ever be? Would "it's worse outside than inside" ever make them good Europeans or would it be the same marginal sharade as before?
@@ashadow4313 one of the largest economies IN the EU yes, but generally also only THANKS to the EU, something the brits seem to forget is that prior to joining the EU, the UK was at its lowest point in centuries.
No Troll - I hate to admit it but you are probably correct ,a lot of Brits. don"t like the idea of being controlled and if we like a "back up plan which seemed necessary " a.k.a Nigel Farage ?.
Sorry peeps. We dont want the English back in the E.U. We dont get insulted anymore, and we can live withoud the English very well. So. Please stay on your Island, and stop bothering us.
The fundamental problem with the UK goes back to the end if WWII and the end of the Empire. UK population has a distorted view of history - and like for Brexit didn’t get over “winning” WW2 / I put brackets because UK did not win WW2 I actual fact, it was part of an alliance who did. UK never understood that EU was and is first and foremost a peace project using Economic alignment as a tool for integration. There is no chance for UK to rejoin on the basis of economic benefits only / it will not fly.
Well it remains to be seen. If the UK is doing well ouside the EU, then proyect fear will become a fantasy, otherwise it will become a reality. The GDP will tell the tale, but it is still early days.
@@mark1226 as an Irish man I know that it is. Have you ever visited Northern Ireland? Without the Four Freedoms we would never have been able to set aside our differences and just get on with the boring inanities of life where your heritage could cost you your life. That IS a Peace Project.
@@mark1226 When people dismiss arguments as “propaganda” it often means they don’t want to address the inconvenient details. In the EU, one was an EU citizen, with EU rights. This made having an Irish or a British passport less significant. In the EU, there was effectively no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. The border, the dividing line between the two parts of Ireland, has been the focus of trouble and violence since its creation, and it looks as if it’s going to go back to being a source of trouble. These are facts, not Brussels propaganda. There were many other factors in the Good Friday Agreement, but the fact both NI and the RoI were in the EU made things so much easier. The EU is a peace project. The fact that this is often forgotten is a measure of its success.
Fascinating, worrying, and frankly sad. As a Brit living and working inside the EU it is clear from many senior political and business figures that I have spoken to from many European countries that the UK is seen as not simply wrong but with some serious dismay with regard to then place the EU has been left. For me there is much lost in this situation but returning, however desirable, will be a massive mountain to climb.
I can't see the UK re-joining any time soon. I think the EU just won't allow it, and it's too toxic and too risky that the entire drama starts afresh We won't risk that. But SCO and NI can join, and if they manage to gain their independence I think they will be welcome. If it happens, I hope Tory-England won't be so difficult. As for England, it will become Toryland when Wales and SCO have left. Who knows which way they will go? Personally, I think England needs to solve it's internal divisions first before they can think about joining any group. They have to honestly face their history and accept how they are seen in the world. After that has sunk in, it could be quite a good country to be friends with and have in a block. But without developing their own identity apart from Empire and war nostalgia, I can't see it happen. And it will take time.
@@guleiro actually Wales voted for brexit not just england. And we would vote the same way again.the UK would never rejoin that corrupt bullying eu club.
The EU the biggest economic free trading area 500 million customers. Tragic. If we wish to trade we have no say. No representation in the parliament. No representation in the European investment banks. No control over trade. Tragic.
@@petelloyd5307 Wales has voted leave because of the great number of English residents. The problem with Brexit is English chauvinism and nothing else. You have never been a 100% committed member so it's no surprise that you people prefer to blame the EU for your own faults. If you want to talk about corruption you should tell me why more than 50% of the British parliament is unelected. And why do you have an hereditary head of state. Or an unelected house of lords. We don't take any lessons from a "subject" living in a unelected monarchy.
As soon as the EEC, which is the club we joined in 1973, started to acquire member countries which were not on a similar economic level to the existing members, the troubles started. When, for example, Poland was admiitted to the EU, people from the Tartra mountains acquired the right to live in the UK, and in return, British nationals acquired the right to live in the Tartra mountains. A one-sided deal if ever there was one. What is conveniently forgotten is the issue of language. Most ordinary Brits have only a rudimentary knowledge of a second language. One problem we have is which second language should we learn? While, for most europeans, the answer to this question is simple. Free exchange of goods and services is fine, but free exchange of people is not, as there will always be a tendency for people to migrate to countries of higher economic standing. Having stated that, I do wonder how bad things have to get in the UK these days to discourage immigration to the UK in general.
Anyone who has studied the economics of economic and monetary unions with Paul de Grauwe's manual would tell you that the rules of origin is one of the main tools , but not the only one in the arsenal of Non-Tariff barriers to avoid competition from third countries like the UK. The EU is not keen on time wasters, and I doubt the EU will be willing to accept a membership application from the UK unless there are guarantees by a new government that a repeat of the current situation will not happen ever again as EU resources have been wasted dealing with the brexit divorce. I apologise to the remainers and rejoiners as they did not cause this brexit mess. The DUP will never recognise the benefits of the single market as they are stuck in the british colonial times with Orange marches, troublesome behaviour and all the rest of it. I agree that brexiteers fantasized about global Britain 2.0., as it was based on lies (like "taking back control", "saving 350 GBP a week for the NHS" when it is still under-funded and being privatised by the back door, etc) to please the domestic brexit audience (gammons), some of whom still portray the EU as a corrupt set of institutions, instead of a democratic one, elected by our elected representatives, which clearly shows hatred towards EU citizens. The EU can't tolerante such racism and xenophobic from brexitards. We all have equal rights and duties/obligations regardless of our nationalities. The four freedoms make the EU more dynamic and fluid. Full stop.
I am a bit concerned with Brendan Donnelly - does he think the EU was such a bonus to the UK (as I do) or is he upset at loosing a very profitable role?
Scotland is NOT rejoining with your England / Britain / uk. We can both rejoin but as independent countries. Saor Alba 🏴 and f the so called union .
Agreed Scotland Will get back in. Why would the EU let back in a state like the UK that is both euro sceptic although a net contributor had lavish allowances given to it. Who could behave like an errant child before leaving again. Makes no intellectual sense.
@@jasonkingshott2971 Yes we were! Knob ! How could we vote for something if we weren't in it??? And shut up the uk was in it. Either way we are leaving the y Uk! Saor Alba 🏴
I find myself agreeing with Donnelly's position. It's a lot like a marriage vow made openly. Either you commit fully (understanding the good and the bad) to joining or you break off the engagement. When I lived in Europe several decades ago, I was surprised to learn that the UK was poorer than Italy. I come from a former British colony and was brainwashed into believing its preeminence. It is, at present, the second largest economy in Europe. Perhaps the UK will change its mind when it is once again poorer than Italy. It seems from what I've read that that may well be the case in the next few years. Thanks again for posting this video. I enjoy the insights you provide.
The problem here is that 'the second largest European economy' is pretty meaningless when the spoils of that 'success' are so poorly distributed (so few feel the benefits), and that this 'success' is based on only a handful of city jobs or the services sector, both of which stand to do very badly as a result of now being fully outside the Single Market, and without financial passporting or similar EU-City of London recognition. Take the City out of the UK economy, and UK GDP falls below that of Belgium.
@@johnescolme5066 Yes, although I don't know first hand since I'm not British, the UK seems to have quite a lot more inequality than what is usual in Europe. But there is another factor too: the population. The UK's GDP per capita isn't particularly high, it's only listed as no. 14 in Europe and een before Brexit, several countries that aren't far behind had much better growth potential.
I think the big difficulty with 'rejoin' scenarios is that rejoining would not restore the status quo ante. There's also the difficulty that rejoining involves accepting EU rules that were never previously accepted by the UK.
@@fintonmainz7845 Well that's debateable, there are plenty of people around the EU who would welcome a UK return, however, the UK would be at the mercy of various local disputes with existing members, and overall the EU's 'terms' might be considerable, it's certain that the Euro and 'Freedom of Movement' would present considerable political difficulties for the UK.
@@jimthorne304 "plenty of people" is not enough. It only takes one country to veto such a scenario. If the EU ever did allow the Brits to rejoin : I would campaign for my country to leave the EU as it would mean the EU had lost its marbles.
When you say about using intellectual reasoning to rejoin, how are you going to convince the 'intellectuals' who voted for leaving, some of which voted themselves out of a job?
The UK had the best deal with the EU of any member country, 17.4 million citizens chose to throw this away purely by taking zero interest in the EU beyond what it would do for them as individuals. Like an onion, when talking to Brexiteers, and peeling back the layers by asking probing questions, it is clear in the majority of cases that their decision was broadly racist based, and not just against EU citizens, but against the main UK immigrants from India, Pakistan and the West Indies. Born out by the fact the areas which voted most strongly for Brexit had the lowest number of EU citizens, but high numbers of immigrants from these other countries. The best example of the indifferent attitude to the EU was the election and re-election of anti EU MEP’s to the EU parliament, whose sole goal was to destroy the UK / EU relationship and sow the lies about the EU to the UK population, most of whom had no interest in fact checking what they were being told. Almost no one I have met in the UK could even name who their MEP was! Final point, in the UK unelected officials are called the Civil Service, I have never heard a single voice in the EU stating they do not wish to work with or take instructions from the UK’s unelected officials, which they had to do frequently. Maddening isn’t it when such tosh is allowed to be peddled as some sort of sole EU issue. I am not certain that the EU would want the UK back as a member for many years, it has lost trust in the UK due to the lies, change of position on deals it has signed, the lies it is spreading regarding trade deals and the fact the UK seems to have completely lost it’s moral compass
Very well said, I second every word. After 5 years of intense dealing with UK, we learned a lot about our friends and neighbours. And this experience can't be just undone, it sticks. Many of us have come to the conclusion that the UK should better stay out, and I hope there will forever be at least one member who would veto any re-joining. Even the gentlemen in this video don't get it. Their horizon stops at UK's economical benefit, and the UK's political power, both of which in their opinion must be increased. Never would it cross their mind that it could be more beneficial for Europe and the world if the UK doesn't have more influence. And as for their economy, they have made their choice.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the french about to vote in an election based primarily around if it wants its population to remain french. Because it’s not other Europeans swarming into France is it? A nation continuing to be overwhelming who they are should never come into question, no matter how much the media tells them ‘the majority are happy with demographic replacement’- you really are a bunch of cowards aren’t you?
never is a long time. Im in my 50s and honestly dont see UK being back in the EU in my lifetime maybe not even for 50 years. Hopefully by then UK will have been humbled so we ditch our bs reverence to empire and royalty
@@mrmanch204 It means the treasonous remainers have no reason to carry on trying to undermine the UK. Frankly that's rather boring and more than slightly embarrassing.
There is little to zero chance of the UK re-joining the EU even if the UK wanted to join, too many bridges have been burnt. But say the UK wanted to join, I suspect it would take at least a decade or two and it's never going to happen whiles the Tories are in charge. I think the best chance of fast tracking back into the EU is by Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the UK and rejoining the EU, the EU would likely fast track them in as they didn't want to leave in the first place but got forced out by England, as for England, forget it, the odds of the EU and it's members letting us back in are pretty much zero until there is a major shift in England from government, the media and public in how they see the EU, we should remember that many in the EU are grateful to see the back of us. But there is one thing the UK can do and the EU would be fine with it, the UK could join the single market and/or custom union, that gives us most of the benefits of EU membership but with little to no say in rule making, that would be the first step for full membership. The other advantage of doing that is that the UK government is signing one bad trade deal after another to make it seem like they are doing good by the Brexiteers as they don't read the small print with these deals, a future government that has nothing to do with Brexit could wipe out all those deals and trade them in for all the deals the EU has in one big step and that's likely very tempting with how the deals the UK is signing are worse than what the EU is signing. Either way, things won't get better for the UK until these clowns are out of power, the Tories are too invested in Brexit to back out of this, the problem is, the Tories are in power for a few more years, more than enough time for them to do more damage to the UK and maybe break up the UK union. So lets be honest with ourselves, there is little to zero chance of joining the EU any time soon, the single market and custom union are more realistic goals and that would protect the economy, but in the short term, there is no way EU members are going to let the UK back into the political decision-making process of the EU until England does some major changes in how they see the EU.
@channeleightythree083 True but even if the UK said today it wanted to rejoin the EU, it would take years before the UK gets in so that's not a problem and honestly, out of the 27 members, I can think of a few that would block the UK from rejoining, so I doubt the UK could rejoin for at least 2 decades and maybe longer because the Tories in the UK are in power for a few more years to do more damage in the UK and to EU relations. Basically, if there is any chance of rejoining, it's not going to happen with this government and even when a new government is in power, it's likely going to take years to repair relations and build trust which by then, Scotland and Northern Ireland might have left the UK and done the damage.
@channeleightythree083 There's already an element of independence in all four of the UK members, Brexit has made that much worse and divided the UK union and we already know that the Scots don't like the English and in fact if you look at the Euros, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland wanted Italy to win, relations among the UK members have got really sour thanks to this government and are likely going to get worse.
@channeleightythree083 Why would that annoy the Scots? you would be helping them get what they want and that would only hurt England and the UK union, especially if Scotland rejoins the EU and makes a success of it which they likely will because if you look at it, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland does poor compared to other western European countries of around the same size, in fact, GDP per capita of Northern Ireland is 3 times lower than the Republic of Ireland. It begs the question, what is the UK union doing to it's members for them to be that poor compared to other countries around the same size? Also, don't kid yourself, if Scotland leaves and makes a success of it, Wales and Northern Ireland would be next which doesn't bold well for the UK union which is ironic how they thought the EU would fall apart, in fact the UK union is more divided and under threat, after all, just look at the Euros, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland supported Italy in the final, that says it all really and really tells you how bad things have got in the UK.
@channeleightythree083 No doubt they hate the Tory party, you only have to look at the way they vote to see that but as for leaving, I think Scotland's got every opening going for it to leave and so does Northern Ireland, hence why the DUP are panicking, Wales could follow but I think it will take longer for them, England could get really isolated if they are not careful and the Euros showed how divided the UK really is where Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland wanted Italy to win over England. The Tories are blind to what's going on right under their nose and that could be a disaster for the UK if they are not careful.
What are you talking about? 'Joining the single market in 2024/2025...'😂 Man, you are off beat. EU wont let you in for the next 100 years. Forget it...
Pragmatically the EU would be stronger, have a far better defence, more money better R&D and future prospects if the UK rejoined. The wishes of the citizens in the EU nations is secondary to the realities of the economic power it would regain. I am not in favour of this but its a fact.
Which way back into the EU for the UK? Well no way at all is what I hope! As an EU citizen why would I want to have back a country where the majority of people despise the union? I sure don't want to again have to suffer a nation that is a source of further division, constantly advocates for its own exceptionalism and even keeps its own currency in the face of an otherwise complete monetary unity. No, thank you.
There is a programme called "Yes Minister" where they say, the only reason the UK joined the EEC was to break it up. They failed....Now we are poster boys for the EU. This is what it looks like to leave the EU!!! HAHAHAHA. They'd want all the benefits we had in our previous membership...which is a joke also. In fact, the Government in Westminster is the most effective joke ever.
The euro was only a success for Germany and France look what it did to the Greece economy if British law out ruled EU law and full sovereignty in Britain my mum and dad only voted for a trade deal and that want it should have been Mrs Thatcher would have not let them rule us and why they got rid of her and a yea man like major and later bair Germany should have to give up self rule cause they want to rule over the EU most labour didn't want to loin how they changed their minds they should have told the truth
But we could do with a little push further away from our faux friends & Allies in France ?. Instead of paying them £50 million to stop the boats ?. Yes it"s weird how the hard left keep telling everybody on these isles how bad it is here ,yet 1000s are paying oodles of money and risking life & limb to get over here ?.
I doubt that without constitutional and legal reform the UK will be allowed to be part of the EU. Best it can hope for is to enter the single market in a Norway style, but it will now have to be allowed by all 27 members of the EU rather than in the exit negotiations. You can also expect objections from all those countries the UK has now signed trade deals with who would see all those to them highly profitable arrangements destroyed again. No doubt that in five years time it will be obvious to even the most deluded in the UK that Brexit really was a daft idea to begin with and the population will be begging to rejoin, there will be little appetite in the EU to sink its resources into a highly impoverished island. The Eu will have its fair share of trouble to solve internally as well. Having to patch up a still huge economy like the UK will not seem all that appetising even if by that time it would be half the current size.
I don't know how the EU will react to England wanting to join even the single market and customs union. They currently sound very unhappy with England, and they can't be blamed for that. I say England, because Scotland will have gained Independence and rejoined the EU. I am assuming that Irish reunification will either have occurred, or be promised in short order. Either way, they are unlikely to want to be shackled in any way to England. I can't even guess what Wales will do. If Scotland and Northern Ireland have rejected England, Wales might opt to try for some alignment with the EU. Whatever happens, the disUnited Kingdom is irretrievably smashed by the will of far right wing English luddites. It cannot be mended.
@@happy.uk.patriot You are correct in that the UK is not going to rejoin the EU. That is because the disUnited Kingdom dissolved the old UK . English brexiteers got everything they wanted. And the price was Scottish Independence and Irish Reunification. Now England is free to pursue self-destruction unhampered by rational arguments against brexit. Enjoy!
@@patricaomas8750 with London as the Financial Hub? That was the plan, however feeble that plan is, but economic suicidal behaviour rarely gets results.
Paul C.... You don't think that your son will reach the age of 73??? He should what means he can enjoy the rejoining process if it will happen. For us it will not definitely not l am not happy with a rejoining UK because l am enjoying the EU parliament without Nigel Farrag and his followers....
Like it or not the UK never left Europe, you cannot leave a continent. For the EU i doubt that there is a chance for the UK rejoining the EU for at least 2 generations, on both sides.
Thank you for a reasoned debate. Plenty of harm and no logic to leaving the EU and the mode of leaving has made the effects of doing so worse. I know what I have lost being a British citizen without the benefits of EU membership added. I quote from another article I have viewed..... project fear is now project here.
I find myself agreeing with Brendan, the success of the leave campaign was a sustained message, over 15-20yrs, of the right-wing media and politicians, of negative ‘propaganda’ against Europe and the EU. The reverse needs to happen with a constant message of 1) how bad Brexit has been and how much it’s cost us, both financially and societally; 2) a positive message of what we get from the EU, both economically and politically. As was mentioned, the UK public needs to be re-briefed with all those Brexit myths countered. As for rejoin the EU or EEA, it depends on the political and public mood. Joining the EEA would allow leavers to say ‘we told you so’, but argument for rejoining the EU could be made against regaining what we lost.
The Express is still, every single day, publishing anti-EU messaging in its stories. It's all BS of course but nevertheless, this is what your average Joe gets to read in his MSM feed.
@@joh22293 You have to ask yourself why the Express is still doing that. After all, we aren’t in the EU anymore. Is it perhaps to use the EU as a scapegoat to cover everything up that’s going wrong with Brexit? Or is it to keep reinforcing the message so that people won’t consider going back to the EU i.e they made the right decision and to build a foundation of hatred for the EU? If the latter, then Brendan is absolutely right, the pro-EU side needs to keep countering that message.
@channeleightythree083 A somewhat harsh perspective, which completely disregards the millions of people who actually voted to remain, against what was only 38% of the electorate who were persuaded by deliberate lies and foreign interference from such as US Republicans and Russia. Many Brits that voted leave are already realising that they were conned. Your view also fails to take into account that it was mainly the older demographic that voted to leave - the younger generation are significantly more pro-European and it’s their views that will come to prevail. I would agree that rejoining is many years away and both public attitudes and the views of our politicians will have to radically change before the EU contemplates whatever is left of the UK coming back. As the British saying goes: ‘once bitten, twice shy’.
The thing is, there were referendum election broadcasts in 1975 which used the terms 'European unity', 'closer political and cultural integration' etc with the then EEC, indeed Edward Heath even used the term 'ever closer union' on occasion. So it is a myth that the British had been told the EEC was just an economic project. Indeed, the brexiteers used the idea that the EU was 'not what we signed up to' anymore for one of the main reasons for leaving.
An interesting discussion. But the UK’s failure in the EU is not only (or even mainly) about the EU. We have a cynical, angry and irresponsible electorate who support cynical, unprincipled, irresponsible politicians, a political system long overdue for reform, full of gross imbalance and disproportion, and a delusional national self-image. I see this as part of a long sequence of post-imperial decline and decadence.
The trouble with this analysis is that it presumes all lies were on the Brexit side. Actually the biggest and most consequential lie was made well before the Referendum and that was by Dustmann on behalf of the Blair government, ie opening the borders to 10 accession countries would only result in 13,000 additional immigrants per year. Therefore the UK (unlike Germany and most other EU countries) did not need interim controls. The reality was the numbers were more than 20X what had been predicted. Britain's population grew twice as fast as anywhere else in Europe, equivalent to four cities the size of Birmingham, the same figure that it grew in the previous 37 years. Not sure what your experience was but in my town they were putting primary schools in office blocks. The UK population was on track in a few decades to be approaching 100 million in the middle of a climate change crisis.
@@robertjohnstone718 Lie or miscalculation- this is the realm of epistemology and semantics. The plan to significantly increase immigration to the UK, including not applying transitional controls in 2004, was made by a small cabal of New Labour politicians and economists without any discussion with the UK electorate. Nothing in the manifesto, zilch. Although Barbara Roche did give a private speech in September 2000 saying this was the governments intention, but not to the electorate- to the British Bankers Association. I would suggest your description of cynical, unprincipled, irresponsible politicians applies just as much to the class of 2004 as it does to the current incumbents. Had the decision been made to mirror Germany and most other countries and apply transitional controls we would probably still be in the EU.
@@catinthehat906 I think there’s a rather obvious difference between a lie and a miscalculation. Also, do you recall how many refugees Angela Merkel allowed into Germany? That said, this discussion confirms the suggestion that Brexit was motivated largely by anti-immigrant feeling, and that it had nothing to do with the “EU rules”” the UK was supposedly obliged to follow - since, as you point out, other EU countries followed different policies. The British electorate never seemed to realise that they could vote out governments instead of swallowing the lie that all unpopular policies were the EU’s fault. Though admittedly the UK electoral system is somewhat rigged.
@@robertjohnstone718 Calculations are based on a variety of assumptions and therefore always potentially inaccurate. Then you have the additional factor of the elected representatives willingness to accept particular calculations that suit their political purposes. The issue of miscalculation and lie is not as clear cut as you would like to believe.
Gentlemen, Very interesting insights, thank you. I agree that the narrative about the EU is a decisive factor, but I am convinced your discussion about sovereignty or economical benefits won't do the trick. The problem in the UK is far deeper. M. Thatcher IMHO only saw the EU as a cash machine. Her narrow minded shop keeper soul was obsessed with getting more money out than she put in. That mentality has prevailed until today. Thatcher wanted her money back, and brexiters wanted 350m a week for the nhs. Both were short sighted and unable to see the big picture. The problem. The problem is not sharing joint food standards or agree emission limits. The problem is much deeper. The English have a deep cultural connection with us Europeans. They have great poets, writers, painters, and philosophers, and these mingled accross Europe with like minded artists, English composers went to learn from Bach or Beethoven, and Joseph Haydn went to London where he created his most famous works. Wellington fought side by side with Blücher against Napoleon, and Churchill with Dr Gaulle against Hitler. The English are a nation of migrants from Saxony, mixed with Normans and Romans, the English language is therefore a mixture of German and French/Latin - no wonder we all find it so easy to learn. The English Royal Family is basically German, and they had no problem with that until WW2, and were known to be part of House of Hannover. But what happened? The two world wars led to immense propaganda and new narratives. The Royals re-named themselves Windsor, which is a freely invented name, and everything European became bad. A narrative was spun of the heroic greater than European Britishman, who won the war by themselves, the catastrophic defeat of Dunkerque was somehow turned into a finest hour, and every child was fed the narrative that Germans were evil, French were weak and Italians were cowards, but Brits "as a nation always punched above their weight." And we all know that that's plain bullshit. Nobody in Europe believes this crap but on your island it's been conserved. European nations recognised their common history, they managed to dump the old hatred and build a new continent. The French forgave the Germans, not all of them, but they don't hold a grudge against young people born 2 generations after the war like the Brits do. Even Germany and Poland have reconciled, and even Germany and Russia - there is no war rhethoric in politics and I never encountered grudges between people. Only you Brits have never moved on from the war and post-war propaganda. You still deny that our culture is European, your language is European, and your Royals. You look down on all of us from your high horse. And You can't admit that the US saved your arses from fascism. Britain was practically finished before the Americans entered the war and you should be grateful to them to saving your freedom and independence. Instead, many of you belittle their contribution You don't acknowledge the contribution of polish air squads that operated from your soil, or of French soldiers who fought by your side, nor do you acknowledge the countless other nations that helped, because it doesn't fit the narrative of "two world wars and one world cup". The British never had to be honest to themselves, because they were the ones who wrote the history books. In that narrative - which no one on the continent buys into - the empire was some kind of heroic selfless deed. Why can't you face up? English people are human and no different from French, Germans, or Polish, the Brits descended from them. Your island wasn't saved from invasion because you plucky Brits were just so much better than the Europeans , it wasn't invaded because it's a bloody island in the sea. I mean look at you: You can't even control a customs border in your own territory FFS. And can you remember the Troubles? That was a 300 miles border against a bunch of rebels in passenger cars. Have you ever thought once about what you might have looked like had you been in the shoes of the French when Hitler's war machine rolled over them through Belgium without warning? Do you really believe you would have stopped Hitler? THAT'S the narrative you have to change, my friends. And when you've done that, then we can talk about re-join. And I really don't think that this will happen until 2024.
The most ironic thing is we cannot control our border/s despite being an island! "I really don't think that this will happen until 2024" more like 2054! I agree 100% that UK MUST get rid of its Empire thinking
Well said. As Fintan O'Toole explained: The English never overcame their two modes only Empire outlook on the world. You either rule, or are being ruled, that's it. They cannot deal with cooperation, negotiation, compromise, give and take, and they have never experienced the shifting of borders and populations and the resulting "messiness" of European realities. They only have Black or White.
There is irony in that British humour is famously self depracating at the core, yet never lead to actual self-examination or even self-reflection. The awareness of how others may perceive British behaviour seems to be limited to only amongst other British. It's like correctly noticing that your entire family are as mad as a box of frogs, but never realising that you're part of that family and that outsiders may well have come to the same conclusion about you.
@@bosoerjadi2838 That's true. I came to the conclusion that the self-depreciating humour, or "British understatement", is a firm part of the narrative. If done by s.o. who feels exceprional and superior, it's just a way to be condescending and arrogant but without opening yourself to criticism.
On the current path the UK will more and more diverted from EU standerd (intensional?) By there own trade deals it also will probably make it more difficult to a-line again. Then there is the poison atmosphere that is created, it all makes it not likely that rejoining will happen in the near future.
As long as an English majority does not understand that the Empire is gone and no Spitfire will bring fresh fruit, there is no way. The "flexibility" GB handles international contracts ruined trust for two generations
I am not sure that the EU will treat them different than other countries who want to join. There is no bonus for Scotland and Wales because the EU is not interested in destroying the UK as Union. The UK market is important for the EU and not playing games with the UK. Business first...
@@klausschumacher7126 for sure many country want to join EU and €uro, they need time to fix theire problem before joining, independant Scotland wont be left alone as it used to be in :)
@@klausschumacher7126 The Commission already said that Scotland won't get special treatment. But they also said that in certain areas alignment will be very simple as SCO has followed EU rules for 47 years. But let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Fist SCO has to regain it's independence and sovereignty, and we won't interfere with that process.
@@YouD0ntSay not sure there is still enough support. my guess, it will still be a NO but less so than last time. but even though it becomes an independent country, there will be so much problem wrt their border. the existing NI border crisis will look like a garden walk compared to that. and scotland has its fair share of brickshitters to create all sorts of problem.
Rejoin the EU for economical reasons? I think (EU citizen perspective here) this will not happen (We won't let it happen as it is sherry picking. The truth is, UK or England has to accept the WHOLE project at it evolves every day and includes POLITICAL INTEGRATION. So as you say, there is a huge work to be made in England BUT NOT ONLY THERE! EU citizens formerly friends of the UK, because of high political tensions ARE NOT AT ALL WELCOMING THE UK as of what we see today. You will have to convince us in a big way. The other aspect is, the UK joined the European project very late (1973) while it was started in 1951. Already the UK experienced difficulties when it joined the European Project. Now the UK has left and all these years of separate living will mean MUCH BIGGER AND INCREASING DIFFERENCES. To be frank almost all the convergence efforts will have to come from the UK people. Remember the UK used to have a golden seat in Europe that it will NEVER get back (now a country exactly as the other EU countries. Not more not less. Too early to rejoin? We (EU) are not enthusiasts about having the UK Show-stopper back. On the other hand, the more the UK waits the more formidable differences will exist. Remember that the present UK government is doing ALL IT CAN TO DESTROY ALL EU-UK bridges and they are succeeding and an anti-UK animosity is building up here. So up to YOU, UK citizens, the work is huge, cannot be started with the present party (what Tory party has become and that "democracy repairs are needed URGENTLY (no way without them): constitution, elected chambers, etc) The EU Super state?: the persons saying this have hot air instead of a brain. The EU total staff is 24,428 to be compared with the US 19.77 million staff (2020 numbers). The EU budget is €1074.3 billion while the US expenditure is $6.818 trillion because of a large deficit revenues is $4.046 trillion. As you can see the superstate is not one. Don't forget we have many more citizens here 460 million compared with US 330 million.
Hello, brit here, I hope we do rejoin the EU one day. I'm more than happy to get rid of the pound and join the euro and schengen. Things are really not going well in the UK. The brexit minister has resigned and the economy is going to be 4% worse off. Our future lies in the EU and it always will do.
true, the current majority of EU nations and people have had it with the UK still thinking they're a global empire, completely forgetting that aside from being a large economy, they're also one of the countries with the largest debts and least growth. By the time they "can" rejoin, the country either doesn't exist anymore, or would be so close to bankrupcy that they wouldn't be worth the trouble
@@barrystubbs983 Ever thought that re-joining the EU would demonstrably cheer up now over 50% of the polled population who regard Brexit as a mistake???
There is no easy path back into the EU for the UK, even if an overwhelming majority voted to re-join. The UK will definitely never be able to regain its for privileged position within the EU. Re-joining in, e.g.2030, would also require introduction of the Euro and no opt-out on contributions and/or legislation.
The UK will never, ever seek to re-join the eu. It took us years to escape from the clutches of the intended super state, There would be blood on the streets first.
Brexit is like "The Charge of the Light Brigade". "Someone has blundered..." and the people of the UK now have to live with the inevitable consequences, while leaders of the Leave campaign (like Farage and Dyson) have abandoned ship, and Boris "Benny Hill" Johnson has been left in charge of the country. The odds for a country could not be much worse.
Yes very much so. There is no REJOINING but simply an application to join the EU and accept all its rules at the time of application (2030? 2040? never?). We in the EU are definitely not ready to make a special case for Britain. Remember the US saying? America, Love it or leave it. Same with the EU and 450 million people will be watching
A interesting discussion- problem is that your discussion start where we are now bu the Europe will be very different in 10 years. Scotland will be independent and have joined EU Ireland will be unified and member of EU Wales will be on it’s way to independence and future member of EU England will have applied for membership of EU but is turned vetoed of one or more of the members A completely different scenario
Also, I think we should stop talking about "Sovereignty". IMO it is being badly misused. We are not "sharing sovereignty" we are entering into an "agreement". We can stick to that agreement, or we can defer from that agreement, but the gift in that is our sovereign decision to make. We make a sovereign decision to follow our agreements, or we make a sovereign decision to defer from them. But we are, at ALL times, sovereign. It is the anti-EU movement that has deliberately misused the term "sovereignty" in order to demonize the EU as some kind of "sovereignty stealer".
It's very unlikely that all EU members would vote to allow us back - we've burnt too many bridges - only a very pro-EU government would allay their concerns - even Labour probably would be that pro-EU. We might be allowed to have membership of the customs union, and perhaps the single market. Eventually, when we have proven we can behave we may be allowed to apply to join as a full member. It will take some time for wounds to heal. Eventually authoritarianism and right-wing politics goes the way of the Dodo - it's a cycle, but the extent of how far the right-wingers can go gets ever more limited. Leaving the EU was a desperate attempt to gain back power by controlling the law and doing things which the EU would not allow, deregulation, restrictions on personal freedoms. The public will put up with only so much, a backlash will come and will be definitive, it may take a while. The Tories are still the 'nasty' party.
actually, labour wouldn't work. the EU is growing more to the right now that its shown just how disgusting its liberal policies have been, with macron going more right, with belgium and the netherlands leaning more to the right, it would be a joke if labour tried to get in with their agenda.
@@TheChill001 on the other hand, Sweden has a long history of social democratic government, Germany has moved left, and Portugal's socialists now have an outright majority The overall picture is leaning more to the left, definitely economically if not culturally
@@markwelch3564 Left wing politics is a slowly dying thing in most countries only in Britain the hard left are fighting tooth & nail to be top dog ?. Across Europe the left is more out in the cold with Russian being the only place not in step and as Trump proves Republicans are still alive and kicking in 2023 in the West .
It looks as though the UK will have to rejoin the Single Market on economic grounds, be a rule taker and just put up with it. I sympathise with Brendan Donnelly's points about lack of advocacy for the EU, but practically, there will be more impetus towards rejoining the Single Market. However there is a snag, in that lack of understanding of the EU might well cause UK officials and politicians to claim that they can rejoin with loads of negotiated concessions. Joining EFTA is likely to meet resistance, the EFTA group would not welcome a trouble maker, however if it were possible, the UK would be subject to the EFTA court, rather than the Court of Justice of the EU.
I think we see a lot of British exceptionalism in terms of rejoining the EU or single market and customs union which is almost as bad as Brexiteers use of British exceptionalism
Nothing less than total capitulation would be anticipated from our former colleagues in such a scenario. The lie’s and fantasy continue unabated with their ludicrous nonsense about a pandemic. Switching off now.
Sovereignty sharing ??? It's all one traffic though. Can't see the UK in the single market and eu accepting uk rules in addition to uk accepting those written Brussels. Its entirely one way traffic.
The UK will never agree to sovereignty sharing. Would they understand the concept, they wouldn't have left. Its either their way or the highway. Presently they are on the highway, going into the opposite direction. For the UK "sovereignty" is synonym for dominance. We had sovereignty sharing, but sharing it wasn't enough for the UK, they wanted their way all the time. There is no basis left for it, and anyone who thinks the EU would get into anything that gets them more entangled with the UK is insane. The best the UK can hope for is unilateral acceptance as long as they don't divert too much. And it's entirely up to the UK how much they divert, and up to the EU how much they accept. That's the opposite of sovereignty sharing, and the UK imposed this new way upon us.
@@YouD0ntSay only a purely transactional(and tit for tat) type relation is possible. just that - nothing else. shouldn't even agree to discuss this anytime soon.
I agree. Focus on the Single Market and stop talking about rejoining the EU entirely. Once we are members of the Single Market, then the argument for having more say in what happens in the Single Market becomes powerful. But the country will accept reentry into the Single Market more easily than re-joining the EU itself. Also the EU would not allow us to simply rejoin without a long probationary period as citizens of the Single Market.
@@nicodesmidt4034 The European electorate, obviously. Particularly those in the countries closest to the UK who they have pissed off the most. All you need is one country blocking them and they are toast.
The British Public are badly educated. Ever since I attended a lycee and did a term in a Gynasium I realised that we specialise too early and on the wrong things. I did not find that a more extensive curriculum was anything but liberative and helpful in taking a broader and infomed perspective on current affairs .Especially Geography, Statistics and Philosophy.
Is that why most countries have 1000s of students that scramble to get here to get a British education and most things that were invented of any value was invented in these small Islands ?. Even the thing your working - on was invented by a Brit . - The Net . If your a REAL Brit . bow your head in shame ,if your a whinging ,moaning Remainer please move to mainland Europe ,they will welcome ex - Brits. who cannot live or work in this country ! .
Gdp down, great for working man thou more jobs more logistics, less eu citizens setting up blag companies paying no tax everyone more accountable, big business loss working man gains prices may rise but so will hmrc tax collection, good for pensioners
@@666mrdoctor I British my mother father more than played there part in ww2 , thanks to them has a OAP I can speek my Mind with no Political come back. And am still fighting For Freedom.😇🇬🇧
@@childoftheuniverse2644 don't think so I think that i may direct you to the 1860 meeting between T H Huxley and Bishop Wilberforce but i don't think you will look it up. As id not think you can read yet. so I do not wont see a sad little boy cry so buy buy you sad little man
The democratic mandate in Scotland and Northern Ireland was to remain, so they will have to take back control sooner or later, perhaps become independent as the English dictatorship is affecting other UK nations. There has been an upsurge in welsch nationalism since the brexit vote. Additionally, the UK has plenty of unelected peers and only parties with a 5% representation of voters get counted!!! And last but not least, the UK has not got a proper written Constitution. That is the grim reality of British democracy.
@@grahamsmith9541 Nein (no in german) the little diddums is taking back control of his pram and will throw brexitards out, because... is fast and furious.
If we had left when we where supposed to have left.your statement would have lost the 1% of value it had. The EU are on parr with the USA for untrustworthy democracy. I'm glad we are out but I have a bit feeling the public are been tricked.
@@markthompson4478 as a european, I will agree there's nothing democratic about the EU, but the brazen decision of leaving the EU didn't and doesn't make any economic sense. It endangers the future of the UK. It would've been smarter to actually gather up people to try and reform the damn thing from the inside rather than now licking your wounds.
@@TheChill001 allowing for corrupt politicians Allowing for untrustworthy media Allowing for the undemocratic EU The best thing any country can do is get out Stay out of The EU. Any economic loss will be over come with time.
🤣🤣🤣The corrupt UK will have long split before the EU. Who is going 1st, Scotland or Northern Ireland? Free the 4 🏴🇮🇪🏴🏴, End the British Dictatorship NOW
@@KinchasaurasRex Scotland & N.I . are together with the rest of Britain because of the English parliaments - money ?. Scotland would have left during the last referendum on a split if the money tap had been turned - off ! . Most English and maybe the Welsh couldn"t care less what the Northern Irish and Scots get up to especially if they are being led by the Donkeys in the S.N.P. ?.
Can't you see that's a silly thing to state? Changes of course are normal else, for example, you wouldn't have a vote to complain about and, should a future generation hold views which differ from those which won any particular day, they could not be enacted. To follow your reasoning the 1975 referendum on Europe Communities membership (where the result was far more clear cut than in 2016, with more than 67% for membership) would have been the end of the case.
@@erict.watson2460 The things we were promised on the original ‘in’ vote were never realised. We were lied to to and got a ideologically framed dictatorship as a reward. Any form of mass centralisation only ever leads to ideological control that pleases no one, and they use ideological weaponised media to achieve it. Case in point: the BBC
@@karlosthejackel69 you, sir, are beyond help. I'm not going to point out why as you can either see it and are wilfully misrepresenting reality or you can't and no amount of effort by others will help you. If it's any consoltation Lord Reith is probably spinning in his grave at what has become of the BBC in politically motivated times.
*"No 'ifs' no 'buts'... Britain's place is in the EU".* You'll have to slide that one past the UK electorate. Which, ofc, you will not. And it may come as a shock to you, but we're OUT of the EU. We left it. You think it's all about GDP and "business". You tried all this stuff for the last five years. I notice that in all your scheming, you've forgotten about the one most important matter... The UK electorate. You will not get it past them.
@@shunnp4175 *"we already had one pal"* - I guess you're too scared to have another one. But this is still a democracy. There will be more referendums in the future.
The UK electorate still has no clue what is going to hit them. Secondly the referendum didn’t meet any requirements thus it was at best a non binding poll. Thus in the end this was a political gamble by the tories and everybody lost, having now this complete insane government dragging everyone down. I have news for you. I will never accept this charade of lies, bollocks and bull shit costing us the world without any benefits. Even the usual brexit bollocks sovereignty and immigration turned out to be bollocks. We knew. Yep.
Very interesting. The sound is awful. Joining the EU is about the UK accepting the political project. Otherwise do like Norway and pay for being part of the SM and CU (including the four free movements), without a say on rules and accepting the ECJ arbitration. It is really very much in the hands of the UK public. BTW there is no REJOINING. The UK or England will never get back all the preferential conditions (feather bed) it had before. On the European side to avoid any veto from any 27 countries to the UK or England joining the EU there must be ample evidence that UK citizens are adhering to European ideals in a very positive way. FORGET cherry picking (Business but not this or that: political integration, etc) Why did Brexit happened? Because it was very nice for, ALL parties in the UK to describe negative aspects of the EU EVEN within the Remainers. In fact ALL UK citizens were complaining about the EU one way or another. When is the time? If the UK is interested (I am an EU citizen) it needs to work on it now. Not with an early application but by a thorough intellectual work of admitting Brexit was a deep mistake and that the EU is a joint construction and no big bully will come and tell others what they have to do. Remember there is a very high level of mistrust in the EU for the UK and EU people will be watching.
@@atomiccritter6492 doubt it. there is just too much bad blood. not worth it. there are other more important markets awaiting. lot more trade opportunities which are stuck for ages. lot more newer members have deep economic issues which needs fixing. EU economy has to massively train and invest in new technologies, make its business and industries more competitive. All those should be priority. not worth wasting any time on that lot.
I do not mean the one we voted in I mean the like of of vandgasbag and that lot how we would not be able to get rid of And your steel a sad little loser how can not get his own way and do not like it
@@markmerry1471 I agree with both of you, the comment was idiotic, and we have a couple of authoritarian countries in the EU that we need to get rid of... So we will not allow another dictatorship to come back in....
@@toutousavelo1808 well said. Hungary is starting to come to more sensible terms, now that they won't milk more money from the EU cow they say to hate so much.
Of you love the EU go and love there and by the way we lo e European we do not like being told shot to do by thoos we did not got for and cannot replace And we will never rejoin the European union so get that in to your head The European will not be there in 10 to 20 years time
@@Traitorman..Proverbs26.11 This guy is a Troll account. They don't understand their own arguments. Their claim democracy but only If you vote as they please, if you not data have a different opinion, and they deny you your democratic right to campaign for what you believe in. They sound like little dictators, and they get very upset if someone points out the facts about their brexshit.
The future belongs to the mostly pro-european British youth and Brexit is the revolution of the old... The UK will be back at least to the Single Market and Customs union in less than 10 years.
The UK/England will be vetoed out from joining the EUs political union as a full EU member state; that is a given now. They can join the Single Market and EEA though, given that the UK accepts the terms. But a British PM will never again sit at the European Council with the 27 other PMs and Presidents of the EU member states.
Completely agree.
The English showed their true colours when the Tories voted The Liar to become their party-leader and the voters rewarded this with an 80-seats majority.
@@jmolofsson True we wanted to get out of the political control of the EU. If the EU was still just the trade cooperation organisation that we joined. We would probability still be in.
@@grahamsmith9541
Even in 1960, it wasn't only that.
EFTA was.
But you left EFTA as soon as you were alowed into the EEC.
@@grahamsmith9541 In 1973, the UK joined a Union with a goal for integration (industrial, political, etc) Already at that time the Britts were cherry-picking. It got worse over the years but now its over! Adieu le Royaume Uni
I love it. They talk about, 'should we join ...'.
This is not the question. UK is already changing rules and regulations. There are already new trade deals, which are not conform with EU rules. And for sure, in the near future laws are changing.
If UK want to join again, it will be a new application. The EU will discuss it with the member states. The standards as a new member state have to be existing.
It is not, ' do we want to join'. It is, 'what to we have to do, that the EU accepts us'.
Always the same exceptionalism. When will UK learn, that it is not what they want. The world is not circling around UK.
Correction:
The EU won't "discuss it _with_ the member-countries" because the EU _is_ the member-countries. A re-entry into the customs union, like e.g. Turkey is a member of the customs union, will be discussed *between* the member-countries.
@@jmolofsson generally correct. The EU is the member countries.
But in this discussions on social media, the EU is the commission and not the member states.
Therefore:
UK would go via the EU commission and the EU commission will discuss it with the EU parlament and the member states and finally the member states need to aprove it with NO veto.
The video was entering the EU, not beding part of the single market and customs union.
Turkey is at this stage not part of the EU and is also not part of the single market.
@@marialana3502 That's the root of the problem, the EU is not the member countries, it is a tiny elite cabal gradually taking over the member countries.
Nobody votes for the people who actually run it, they choose themselves. And if you disagree with them they attack you, look at Poland and Hungary at the moment, the EU is trying to force them to change their laws !!!
Can you imagine, an unelected cabal is trying to force democracies to change their laws?
@@Iain1962 I see it completly different.
Take UK. Who is elected?
Nothing more than the Torry party. Maybe they got elected because of Johnson, maybe because of the party. But not evey minister is elected.
In UK the head of state is not elected, the house of Lords also not. The civil servants, which are doing the work including preperation of laws are not elected.
Countries have different systems, but all are runned more or less the same. In Germany the President is not elected, in Austria he is.
But the generall differences are small.
The EU commission is not elected but goes according to majority votes of party. VdL is from the Christ Democrates, which had majority in the election of parlament. EU parlament is elected.
Therefore, nothing different to a single country.
Now about Poland and Hungary.
The laws, we are talking are not the general laws. They are against homan rights as the EU sees it and this homan rights are originally agreed by this countries.
The parlament in this countries have been elected with big power. There is nearly no oposition at the moment.
Hungary is changing laws of free speech and rights for Homosexuals.
Poland the rights of Homosexuals and woman.
Even the EU commission want to do something against it, they need approval from the member states.
Your problem is not, that they are unelected. This you have in your own country.
The problem for you is, that you prefer to follow orders from your own unelected people, than from the unelected people of the EU.
If tomorrow the Torries are changing homan rights laws, nobody will try to stop them. Like nobody tries to stop Erdogan on changing woman rights.
For Hungary and Poland, there is a possibility to interfere.
The EU is a law maker and ruler, with more oposition than any other system has.
1. EU commission, leaded by the biggest party of the member states, but all parties included.
2. EU parlament with representavies of all EU parties.
3. National parlaments with the different leading parties of the countries.
Tell me, what opposition to you have in UK? Torry, ?????
A country without opposition is called, ...?
If you are worried, that the EU could become a federation, I don't believe so. But it looks to me that the German, Swiss or Austrian federations are working quiet well.
@@marialana3502 The Eu wouldn't know what a fair election is.
The MEPs the only bit that the citizens can vote for, who cannot propose law, but are merely a rubber stamp department, and they choose themselves.
The D'hondt system means it is all lists, the parties choose who is top of each list, why do you think Verhofstadt is always there? His party only has 2 seats, or even Farage, he made sure he was top of the list in an area that was bound to get at least one seat for UKIP so he was guaranteed a seat.
That's not democracy, it's not even close.
The President of the Commission is not elected at all and has the most power, the President is chosen in a back room AFTER the election by the outgoing oleaders.
That's called a dynasty.
In the UK we vote seat per seat for a person. A bad person no matter what party they are running for has no chance of being elected, but in the EU they are guranteed a seat.
The EU also ignore referendum results, France the Netherlands, Ireland etc etc. They actually do the opposite of what the people vote for.
Now you can live under that system if you like, but then again you like tyrants taking power in Europe, you make a habit of it and then we have to come along and clear it all up.
Napoleon the Kaiser that other Austrian chap and now the EU, happens all the time, and we always have to come and save you.
One of the conditions for getting back is that England should not be as condescending and arrogant towards continentals. They feel so far superior, they cannot cooperate or negotiate, only dictate. The UK has gotten one special exception treatment after another and STILL it was not enough. For the EU, it is good riddence. The arrogance and feelings of superiority are really humongous among the English. Not the Scots or Irish, only the English. Perhaps it can't be helped. They expect everybody to speak English to them and they themselves tend to know no foreign languages at all. Now, when a non-native speaker speaks English to a native speaker of English, the native speaker automatically thinks his interlocutor is inferior because his English is faulty. I think the English would be more humble if everyone in the world would speak German or French or Mandarin or Russian. I hail from The Netherlands and as nobody speaks Dutch, I have to be able to speak English, French, German to make myself understood. And then I know some Spanish and can understand Swedish and Italian. Now, how's that for being inferior to the beerbelly in the pub who feels himself to be far far above any 'bloody foreigner'?
Ben detto!
You nailed it, but may l add that the native english speakers don't speak english very well.
Nice bit of racism there 👏
Why would we speak a language of people we couldn't careless about?. We won't be back because most of us hate the EU and always will. Infact I think they are our enemy now and we should treat them as such
@@joedonnelly6721 haha, that's right, I forgot about that.
Keep in mind it’s not only a choice of the UK, I don’t see all EU countries being unanimously in favor
The "rejoin" campaign still haven't conjured up a positive case FOR eu membership.
They are still trying to tear strips out of the vote to leave.
a. They tried that for five solid years.
b. They failed, _bad._
c. The UK electorate is not the slightest bit interested in "rejoining" the EU.
d. Remoaners and rejoiners simply alienate themselves by carrying on like this... it's tedious and we're not interested.
e. The UK is joining CPTPP. CPTPP is set for remarkable _growth_ while the EU SM is in steady decline as a share of GDP. So the rejoiners will not have that argument.
f. The behaviour of the EU in the last five years, even till today, is vaccination against membership. The UK electorate _don't like the EU very much, at all._
g. The recent Batley and Spen by election is a very good indication... the "Rejoin EU" party garnered a _risible, _*_75 votes_* and to put that into context, the "Monster Raving Looney Party" was substantially more popular, garnering *107 votes,* a full *42% MORE* than the "Rejoin EU" crowd.
😎
@@happy.uk.patriot well said 👌
Cptpp?
Psssst. Guess what. They've got an unelected commission that actually does make rules.
What was Canada's experience of joining....job losses, wages shrinking due to increased immigration.
And membership fees, that why Korea are unsure about joining , the high membership fee.
Cotpp growth....across the whole block, or just places like Indonesia and Vietnam with plenty of scope to grow.
Forget about it. Never ever. We might take in bits and pieces, but never England.
I agree with you.
I would personally not be opposed to them rejoining as long as they are rejoining by our standards. They have to use the Euro they have to conform to our social and economic norms. Like any other newcomer. You want in? Then display the spirit of the current EU and we talk.
@channeleightythree083 don’t forget also that borders are in inventions by those in power! Never for the people!
@channeleightythree083 they are infected like we all are. To be conscious means to be awake. (Thínking only in your own circle is nót being conscious)
we would like to come back - it's not our fault - it is the fault of boris johnson
As a tri national (French Irish and English) for the foreseeable it is "nul point " on the GB re joining the EU . Too much damage has been caused by Johnson's Government.
I fully understand the Brexiteers mindset and why they are getting more and more bitter towards the EU is because they want to be completely sovereign but live exactly the same life as if it is still a member. It cannot stand being treated as a third country. They are asking for the impossible because they live in the cloud. They cannot have it both ways so this is where their problem comes from.
Remember the statement during the referndum where the leave camp said that we could leave and retain all the benefits. Completely wrong of course as is now obvious to anyone with perhaps a little prompting.
we (in the EU) don't want the UK back for at least 500 years. Sorry and enjoy
Not even for 10.000 years. Not even on the Youngest Day.
@@thevoid5503 suits me perfectly. 😁. Unfortunatly i think the begging will start within 10 years
@@vincentkermorgant They can beg, they can plead they can cry. We'll just sit back and help ourselves to a second serving and a good glass of wine while their shelves are empty.
There is no doubt that attitudes have to change here in the UK before a rejoin attempt is made. Brexit was achieved by a sustained anti-EU message over 15-20 years by *some* Conservative MPs and amplified by the (somewhat substantial) right-wing Murdoch media. It also has to be remembered that the referendum in 2016 was heavily influenced by that media, plenty of ‘dark money’ (mainly from US Republicans), Russian interference and communications usually used by military ‘psychological operations’ targeted using help from Cambridge Analytica (owned by a hard right US Republican). In terms of demographics, older people were more susceptible to this messaging & influence and were the ones that pushed the vote to leave - the young mainly didn’t & are pro-EU. That demographic is now clearly shifting (as the years pass) with the young becoming more pro-EU and dominant. Despite all this, 16m people voted to remain and that number is only going to increase in the next 5-10 years.
The bottom-line here is that the picture is complicated and the UK has been affected by the message and money of hard-right populists, just as France and other countries are currently. We are not all EU haters and once COVID passes and the true damage of Brexit becomes clear, both economically and politically, the public and political mood should change. And don’t forget, Scotland voted 62% to remain, is likely to become independent (which was also triggered by Brexit) and they are pro-EU and are seeking to rejoin. So, please bear these things in mind, understand the underlying causes and the fact that this could’ve happened to any EU country in the current climate.
@@northyorkshirechris5735
The weak support for the European Union from purported pro-Europeans is a difference between Britain and other old EU-members. Central Europe might be different, but even in Italy or Greece, there is no comparison to the UK.
First of all forget about “rejoining”. EU treaties do not provide any way for a former member to “rejoin” and go back to the status quo ante. UK could apply to “join” under A49 and would be treated the same as any other applicant.
Secondly, if ever UK joins the EU a second time, the deal will not include all the nifty opt outs and rebates it used to enjoy.
And most importantly, EU is not masochistic. We will not let UK in as long as there is a chance we will get a Brexit 2.0 in the following generation. UK will need to revamp its constitution and voting system and stay in the EEA as a well behaved rule-taker for a few decades before it’s allowed back into the decision room.
Am absolutely flabbergasted that you two have not spent a single word on the views of the EU and the damage the UK has and is doing to its trustworthyness. After all the UK doesn’t have a right to (re)join anything, it would need to be granted by parties that are now treated as enemies by the UK.
Hear hear, fundamental changes in the Uk need to be enacted, implemented and proven to provide a more stable political environment than it is now
- abolish FPTP
- reform social policies
- get a written constitution (to prevent these types of mishaps)
- implement UBI
- separate government from bureaucrats
- reign in the (social)media
Gentlemen, you are discussing joining the single market and customs union. Thence advancing into the EEA and EFTA. Do you grasp that England has already been politely refused by the EEA and EFTA?
@@nicodesmidt4034
The UK is not going to abolish FPTP.
You're p*ssing up a rope.
@@lindabastable3021 We never asked. Therefore, no refusal was elicited.
I think England has a bright future in the African Union.
But would we be welcome?
@@naillijseer he was joking with you
Why would the EU re-admit one of its biggest trouble makers of the last decade?
For many years now, the Great British electorate picked whoever they considered sane for their councils and constituencies - but sent their obstructionist crazies to the EU parliament in Strasbourg.
It's always just been a cherrypicking exercise with an approval rate of 55% at its maximum - and every temporary downturn was weaponized to bargain additional concessions.
I think the UK should only be re-admitted at standard membership conditions and with a clear majority of at least 75% in a referendum. And if that never happens, so be it - the EU has enough troublemakers at its fringes as is....
Simple.
They're rich.
The UK was the second largest contributor to the budget of the EU and the UK is the EU's third largest trade partner only behind China and the US.
Most Brits do want to return to the EU, with the majority of the people who abstained from the referendum are now pro-EU.
Ofc, this all purely speculation.
As long as Boris is the PM, there is a snowball's chance in hell that they're returning. And even then, Macron might still block them from re-entering like what he's doing to the Balkans.
@@ashadow4313 Well, let's see how "rich" they'll be once BoJo and his acolytes are done with them.
And again - even if there is a majority for rejoining now, how stable could that ever be? Would "it's worse outside than inside" ever make them good Europeans or would it be the same marginal sharade as before?
@@ashadow4313 one of the largest economies IN the EU yes, but generally also only THANKS to the EU, something the brits seem to forget is that prior to joining the EU, the UK was at its lowest point in centuries.
No Troll - I hate to admit it but you are probably correct ,a lot of Brits. don"t like the idea of being controlled and if we like a "back up plan which seemed necessary " a.k.a Nigel Farage ?.
@@yorkiegilly4355
Well, if Farage is the "backup plan", then there is no plan at all...neither backup nor other.
Sorry peeps. We dont want the English back in the E.U. We dont get insulted anymore, and we can live withoud the English very well. So. Please stay on your Island, and stop bothering us.
The fundamental problem with the UK goes back to the end if WWII and the end of the Empire.
UK population has a distorted view of history - and like for Brexit didn’t get over “winning” WW2 / I put brackets because UK did not win WW2 I actual fact, it was part of an alliance who did.
UK never understood that EU was and is first and foremost a peace project using Economic alignment as a tool for integration.
There is no chance for UK to rejoin on the basis of economic benefits only / it will not fly.
The EU is not a peace project it is a economic, legal and political organisation.
Well it remains to be seen.
If the UK is doing well ouside the EU, then proyect fear will become a fantasy, otherwise it will become a reality.
The GDP will tell the tale, but it is still early days.
@@mark1226 as an Irish man I know that it is. Have you ever visited Northern Ireland? Without the Four Freedoms we would never have been able to set aside our differences and just get on with the boring inanities of life where your heritage could cost you your life. That IS a Peace Project.
@@Oluinneachain membership of the EU had absolutely nothing to do with peace in Northern Ireland that's just Brussels propaganda.
@@mark1226 When people dismiss arguments as “propaganda” it often means they don’t want to address the inconvenient details. In the EU, one was an EU citizen, with EU rights. This made having an Irish or a British passport less significant. In the EU, there was effectively no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. The border, the dividing line between the two parts of Ireland, has been the focus of trouble and violence since its creation, and it looks as if it’s going to go back to being a source of trouble. These are facts, not Brussels propaganda. There were many other factors in the Good Friday Agreement, but the fact both NI and the RoI were in the EU made things so much easier. The EU is a peace project. The fact that this is often forgotten is a measure of its success.
Fascinating, worrying, and frankly sad. As a Brit living and working inside the EU it is clear from many senior political and business figures that I have spoken to from many European countries that the UK is seen as not simply wrong but with some serious dismay with regard to then place the EU has been left. For me there is much lost in this situation but returning, however desirable, will be a massive mountain to climb.
Hey Ho!!
@Echte Brabander Not according to Portugal and Spain.
I can't see the UK re-joining any time soon. I think the EU just won't allow it, and it's too toxic and too risky that the entire drama starts afresh We won't risk that.
But SCO and NI can join, and if they manage to gain their independence I think they will be welcome. If it happens, I hope Tory-England won't be so difficult.
As for England, it will become Toryland when Wales and SCO have left. Who knows which way they will go?
Personally, I think England needs to solve it's internal divisions first before they can think about joining any group. They have to honestly face their history and accept how they are seen in the world. After that has sunk in, it could be quite a good country to be friends with and have in a block. But without developing their own identity apart from Empire and war nostalgia, I can't see it happen. And it will take time.
You are 100% spot on... Brexit it's all about England and its identity crisis.
@@guleiro actually Wales voted for brexit not just england. And we would vote the same way again.the UK would never rejoin that corrupt bullying eu club.
The EU the biggest economic free trading area 500 million customers. Tragic. If we wish to trade we have no say. No representation in the parliament. No representation in the European investment banks. No control over trade. Tragic.
@@petelloyd5307
Wales has voted leave because of the great number of English residents.
The problem with Brexit is English chauvinism and nothing else.
You have never been a 100% committed member so it's no surprise that you people prefer to blame the EU for your own faults.
If you want to talk about corruption you should tell me why more than 50% of the British parliament is unelected.
And why do you have an hereditary head of state. Or an unelected house of lords.
We don't take any lessons from a "subject" living in a unelected monarchy.
@@guleiro this pete loyd hasn't got a clue what he is talking about
Wow the British exceptionalism here.
Make that "English" exceptionalism.
As soon as the EEC, which is the club we joined in 1973, started to acquire member countries which were not on a similar economic level to the existing members, the troubles started. When, for example, Poland was admiitted to the EU, people from the Tartra mountains acquired the right to live in the UK, and in return, British nationals acquired the right to live in the Tartra mountains. A one-sided deal if ever there was one. What is conveniently forgotten is the issue of language. Most ordinary Brits have only a rudimentary knowledge of a second language. One problem we have is which second language should we learn? While, for most europeans, the answer to this question is simple. Free exchange of goods and services is fine, but free exchange of people is not, as there will always be a tendency for people to migrate to countries of higher economic standing. Having stated that, I do wonder how bad things have to get in the UK these days to discourage immigration to the UK in general.
Anyone who has studied the economics of economic and monetary unions with Paul de Grauwe's manual would tell you that the rules of origin is one of the main tools , but not the only one in the arsenal of Non-Tariff barriers to avoid competition from third countries like the UK.
The EU is not keen on time wasters, and I doubt the EU will be willing to accept a membership application from the UK unless there are guarantees by a new government that a repeat of the current situation will not happen ever again as EU resources have been wasted dealing with the brexit divorce.
I apologise to the remainers and rejoiners as they did not cause this brexit mess.
The DUP will never recognise the benefits of the single market as they are stuck in the british colonial times with Orange marches, troublesome behaviour and all the rest of it.
I agree that brexiteers fantasized about global Britain 2.0., as it was based on lies (like "taking back control", "saving 350 GBP a week for the NHS" when it is still under-funded and being privatised by the back door, etc) to please the domestic brexit audience (gammons), some of whom still portray the EU as a corrupt set of institutions, instead of a democratic one, elected by our elected representatives, which clearly shows hatred towards EU citizens.
The EU can't tolerante such racism and xenophobic from brexitards. We all have equal rights and duties/obligations regardless of our nationalities. The four freedoms make the EU more dynamic and fluid. Full stop.
I am a bit concerned with Brendan Donnelly - does he think the EU was such a bonus to the UK (as I do) or is he upset at loosing a very profitable role?
In bits and pieces, but without England.
Scotland is NOT rejoining with your England / Britain / uk. We can both rejoin but as independent countries. Saor Alba 🏴 and f the so called union .
Agreed Scotland Will get back in. Why would the EU let back in a state like the UK that is both euro sceptic although a net contributor had lavish allowances given to it. Who could behave like an errant child before leaving again. Makes no intellectual sense.
How can Scotland rejoin something they were never in?
@@jasonkingshott2971 Yes we were! Knob ! How could we vote for something if we weren't in it??? And shut up the uk was in it. Either way we are leaving the y Uk! Saor Alba 🏴
@@staunch2207 Just checked passed and present EU member states, guess what?..Scotland wasn't one of them.
@@jasonkingshott2971 Well neither was england!
I find myself agreeing with Donnelly's position. It's a lot like a marriage vow made openly. Either you commit fully (understanding the good and the bad) to joining or you break off the engagement. When I lived in Europe several decades ago, I was surprised to learn that the UK was poorer than Italy. I come from a former British colony and was brainwashed into believing its preeminence. It is, at present, the second largest economy in Europe. Perhaps the UK will change its mind when it is once again poorer than Italy. It seems from what I've read that that may well be the case in the next few years. Thanks again for posting this video. I enjoy the insights you provide.
The problem here is that 'the second largest European economy' is pretty meaningless when the spoils of that 'success' are so poorly distributed (so few feel the benefits), and that this 'success' is based on only a handful of city jobs or the services sector, both of which stand to do very badly as a result of now being fully outside the Single Market, and without financial passporting or similar EU-City of London recognition. Take the City out of the UK economy, and UK GDP falls below that of Belgium.
@@johnescolme5066 Yes, although I don't know first hand since I'm not British, the UK seems to have quite a lot more inequality than what is usual in Europe. But there is another factor too: the population. The UK's GDP per capita isn't particularly high, it's only listed as no. 14 in Europe and een before Brexit, several countries that aren't far behind had much better growth potential.
I think the big difficulty with 'rejoin' scenarios is that rejoining would not restore the status quo ante. There's also the difficulty that rejoining involves accepting EU rules that were never previously accepted by the UK.
The big difficulty is that we won't let you rejoin.
@@fintonmainz7845 Well that's debateable, there are plenty of people around the EU who would welcome a UK return, however, the UK would be at the mercy of various local disputes with existing members, and overall the EU's 'terms' might be considerable, it's certain that the Euro and 'Freedom of Movement' would present considerable political difficulties for the UK.
@@jimthorne304 "plenty of people" is not enough.
It only takes one country to veto such a scenario.
If the EU ever did allow the Brits to rejoin : I would campaign for my country to leave the EU as it would mean the EU had lost its marbles.
@@fintonmainz7845 The cheque is in the post - finton ?. 😉.
UK can rejoin piece by piece starting with Scotland
Scotland does not meet the financial requirements to join the EU as an independent country.
Bar England, it takes one country only to veto and right now there are 27 of them + Scotland.
Hahaha, so funny.
Uk?
Laughs in Scots
Rejoining the EU? The Uk has always been in and out, granted rebates and a preferential treatment...a real pain in the a..so, no thanks!
When you say about using intellectual reasoning to rejoin, how are you going to convince the 'intellectuals' who voted for leaving, some of which voted themselves out of a job?
The UK had the best deal with the EU of any member country, 17.4 million citizens chose to throw this away purely by taking zero interest in the EU beyond what it would do for them as individuals.
Like an onion, when talking to Brexiteers, and peeling back the layers by asking probing questions, it is clear in the majority of cases that their decision was broadly racist based, and not just against EU citizens, but against the main UK immigrants from India, Pakistan and the West Indies. Born out by the fact the areas which voted most strongly for Brexit had the lowest number of EU citizens, but high numbers of immigrants from these other countries.
The best example of the indifferent attitude to the EU was the election and re-election of anti EU MEP’s to the EU parliament, whose sole goal was to destroy the UK / EU relationship and sow the lies about the EU to the UK population, most of whom had no interest in fact checking what they were being told. Almost no one I have met in the UK could even name who their MEP was!
Final point, in the UK unelected officials are called the Civil Service, I have never heard a single voice in the EU stating they do not wish to work with or take instructions from the UK’s unelected officials, which they had to do frequently. Maddening isn’t it when such tosh is allowed to be peddled as some sort of sole EU issue.
I am not certain that the EU would want the UK back as a member for many years, it has lost trust in the UK due to the lies, change of position on deals it has signed, the lies it is spreading regarding trade deals and the fact the UK seems to have completely lost it’s moral compass
Very well said, I second every word. After 5 years of intense dealing with UK, we learned a lot about our friends and neighbours. And this experience can't be just undone, it sticks.
Many of us have come to the conclusion that the UK should better stay out, and I hope there will forever be at least one member who would veto any re-joining.
Even the gentlemen in this video don't get it. Their horizon stops at UK's economical benefit, and the UK's political power, both of which in their opinion must be increased.
Never would it cross their mind that it could be more beneficial for Europe and the world if the UK doesn't have more influence.
And as for their economy, they have made their choice.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the french about to vote in an election based primarily around if it wants its population to remain french. Because it’s not other Europeans swarming into France is it?
A nation continuing to be overwhelming who they are should never come into question, no matter how much the media tells them ‘the majority are happy with demographic replacement’- you really are a bunch of cowards aren’t you?
The EU will never allow the UK to become a full member.
As time goes on it will be harder and harder to ever trust the British.
never is a long time. Im in my 50s and honestly dont see UK being back in the EU in my lifetime maybe not even for 50 years. Hopefully by then UK will have been humbled so we ditch our bs reverence to empire and royalty
Well that's a relief, great news !!
I predict they will let Scotland back into the EU in 5 years or less after they’ve voted to leave the UK for sovereignty.
@@Iain1962 whys that then?
@@mrmanch204 It means the treasonous remainers have no reason to carry on trying to undermine the UK.
Frankly that's rather boring and more than slightly embarrassing.
There is little to zero chance of the UK re-joining the EU even if the UK wanted to join, too many bridges have been burnt.
But say the UK wanted to join, I suspect it would take at least a decade or two and it's never going to happen whiles the Tories are in charge.
I think the best chance of fast tracking back into the EU is by Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the UK and rejoining the EU, the EU would likely fast track them in as they didn't want to leave in the first place but got forced out by England, as for England, forget it, the odds of the EU and it's members letting us back in are pretty much zero until there is a major shift in England from government, the media and public in how they see the EU, we should remember that many in the EU are grateful to see the back of us.
But there is one thing the UK can do and the EU would be fine with it, the UK could join the single market and/or custom union, that gives us most of the benefits of EU membership but with little to no say in rule making, that would be the first step for full membership.
The other advantage of doing that is that the UK government is signing one bad trade deal after another to make it seem like they are doing good by the Brexiteers as they don't read the small print with these deals, a future government that has nothing to do with Brexit could wipe out all those deals and trade them in for all the deals the EU has in one big step and that's likely very tempting with how the deals the UK is signing are worse than what the EU is signing.
Either way, things won't get better for the UK until these clowns are out of power, the Tories are too invested in Brexit to back out of this, the problem is, the Tories are in power for a few more years, more than enough time for them to do more damage to the UK and maybe break up the UK union.
So lets be honest with ourselves, there is little to zero chance of joining the EU any time soon, the single market and custom union are more realistic goals and that would protect the economy, but in the short term, there is no way EU members are going to let the UK back into the political decision-making process of the EU until England does some major changes in how they see the EU.
@channeleightythree083 True but even if the UK said today it wanted to rejoin the EU, it would take years before the UK gets in so that's not a problem and honestly, out of the 27 members, I can think of a few that would block the UK from rejoining, so I doubt the UK could rejoin for at least 2 decades and maybe longer because the Tories in the UK are in power for a few more years to do more damage in the UK and to EU relations.
Basically, if there is any chance of rejoining, it's not going to happen with this government and even when a new government is in power, it's likely going to take years to repair relations and build trust which by then, Scotland and Northern Ireland might have left the UK and done the damage.
@channeleightythree083 There's already an element of independence in all four of the UK members, Brexit has made that much worse and divided the UK union and we already know that the Scots don't like the English and in fact if you look at the Euros, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland wanted Italy to win, relations among the UK members have got really sour thanks to this government and are likely going to get worse.
@channeleightythree083 Why would that annoy the Scots? you would be helping them get what they want and that would only hurt England and the UK union, especially if Scotland rejoins the EU and makes a success of it which they likely will because if you look at it, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland does poor compared to other western European countries of around the same size, in fact, GDP per capita of Northern Ireland is 3 times lower than the Republic of Ireland.
It begs the question, what is the UK union doing to it's members for them to be that poor compared to other countries around the same size?
Also, don't kid yourself, if Scotland leaves and makes a success of it, Wales and Northern Ireland would be next which doesn't bold well for the UK union which is ironic how they thought the EU would fall apart, in fact the UK union is more divided and under threat, after all, just look at the Euros, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland supported Italy in the final, that says it all really and really tells you how bad things have got in the UK.
@channeleightythree083 No doubt they hate the Tory party, you only have to look at the way they vote to see that but as for leaving, I think Scotland's got every opening going for it to leave and so does Northern Ireland, hence why the DUP are panicking, Wales could follow but I think it will take longer for them, England could get really isolated if they are not careful and the Euros showed how divided the UK really is where Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland wanted Italy to win over England.
The Tories are blind to what's going on right under their nose and that could be a disaster for the UK if they are not careful.
What are you talking about? 'Joining the single market in 2024/2025...'😂 Man, you are off beat. EU wont let you in for the next 100 years. Forget it...
If Brexit seriously damages the UK economy could rejoining the EU be a real issue in the next general election.?
Will never happen, to many on both sides are against a rejoin.
Pragmatically the EU would be stronger, have a far better defence, more money better R&D and future prospects if the UK rejoined. The wishes of the citizens in the EU nations is secondary to the realities of the economic power it would regain. I am not in favour of this but its a fact.
The public will never agree to rejoining in the near future.
Ne JAMAIS dire JAMAIS en politique. It took only a few month for the iron curtain to fall down and took EVERYBODY by surprise.
@@johnjeanb But that the public did agree with!
Which way back into the EU for the UK? Well no way at all is what I hope!
As an EU citizen why would I want to have back a country where the majority of people despise the union? I sure don't want to again have to suffer a nation that is a source of further division, constantly advocates for its own exceptionalism and even keeps its own currency in the face of an otherwise complete monetary unity. No, thank you.
There is a programme called "Yes Minister" where they say, the only reason the UK joined the EEC was to break it up. They failed....Now we are poster boys for the EU. This is what it looks like to leave the EU!!! HAHAHAHA. They'd want all the benefits we had in our previous membership...which is a joke also. In fact, the Government in Westminster is the most effective joke ever.
The euro was only a success for Germany and France look what it did to the Greece economy if British law out ruled EU law and full sovereignty in Britain my mum and dad only voted for a trade deal and that want it should have been Mrs Thatcher would have not let them rule us and why they got rid of her and a yea man like major and later bair Germany should have to give up self rule cause they want to rule over the EU most labour didn't want to loin how they changed their minds they should have told the truth
The UK hasn't left Europe.....
Yes, it still inhabits the brain of the Brexiteers. Brexit is never Brexit enough. At least not enough to stop nagging and whining.
But we could do with a little push further away from our faux friends & Allies in France ?. Instead of paying them £50 million to stop the boats ?. Yes it"s weird how the hard left keep telling everybody on these isles how bad it is here ,yet 1000s are paying oodles of money and
risking life & limb to get over here ?.
I doubt that without constitutional and legal reform the UK will be allowed to be part of the EU. Best it can hope for is to enter the single market in a Norway style, but it will now have to be allowed by all 27 members of the EU rather than in the exit negotiations. You can also expect objections from all those countries the UK has now signed trade deals with who would see all those to them highly profitable arrangements destroyed again. No doubt that in five years time it will be obvious to even the most deluded in the UK that Brexit really was a daft idea to begin with and the population will be begging to rejoin, there will be little appetite in the EU to sink its resources into a highly impoverished island. The Eu will have its fair share of trouble to solve internally as well. Having to patch up a still huge economy like the UK will not seem all that appetising even if by that time it would be half the current size.
EFTA countries already spoke out against UK joining, so might be a problem
I don't know how the EU will react to England wanting to join even the single market and customs union. They currently sound very unhappy with England, and they can't be blamed for that.
I say England, because Scotland will have gained Independence and rejoined the EU. I am assuming that Irish reunification will either have occurred, or be promised in short order. Either way, they are unlikely to want to be shackled in any way to England.
I can't even guess what Wales will do. If Scotland and Northern Ireland have rejected England, Wales might opt to try for some alignment with the EU.
Whatever happens, the disUnited Kingdom is irretrievably smashed by the will of far right wing English luddites. It cannot be mended.
The UK is not going to rejoin the EU.
The UK is not going to rejoin the SM.
The UK is not going to rejoin the CU.
You people are fantasists.
@@nicodesmidt4034 It's no problem. The UK is never, ever going to "rejoin" 🙄 the EU.
These people are a fanatical, lunatic fringe.
@@happy.uk.patriot You are correct in that the UK is not going to rejoin the EU.
That is because the disUnited Kingdom dissolved the old UK . English brexiteers got everything they wanted. And the price was Scottish Independence and Irish Reunification.
Now England is free to pursue self-destruction unhampered by rational arguments against brexit.
Enjoy!
Immediately re-joining? Nope, won't happen in my son's lifetime. And he is 23, maybe in 50 years?
Is that what Mogg was talking about we'll be better off in 50 yrs, after rejoining?
@@patricaomas8750 with London as the Financial Hub? That was the plan, however feeble that plan is, but economic suicidal behaviour rarely gets results.
Paul C.... You don't think that your son will reach the age of 73??? He should what means he can enjoy the rejoining process if it will happen. For us it will not definitely not l am not happy with a rejoining UK because l am enjoying the EU parliament without Nigel Farrag and his followers....
Like it or not the UK never left Europe, you cannot leave a continent. For the EU i doubt that there is a chance for the UK rejoining the EU for at least 2 generations, on both sides.
Thank you for a reasoned debate. Plenty of harm and no logic to leaving the EU and the mode of leaving has made the effects of doing so worse. I know what I have lost being a British citizen without the benefits of EU membership added. I quote from another article I have viewed..... project fear is now project here.
I beg you !!! Enough is enough. Please stay on your Island. We are fed up of your arrogance and superiority complex.
English arrogance is destroying them but they incapable of rescuing themselves. Arrogance and superiority complex are their incurable diseases.
Which one's Statler and which one's Waldorf?
UK never will join back the EU. Scotland and NI maybe. We love you
Which way? The highway. Never again!
I find myself agreeing with Brendan, the success of the leave campaign was a sustained message, over 15-20yrs, of the right-wing media and politicians, of negative ‘propaganda’ against Europe and the EU. The reverse needs to happen with a constant message of 1) how bad Brexit has been and how much it’s cost us, both financially and societally; 2) a positive message of what we get from the EU, both economically and politically. As was mentioned, the UK public needs to be re-briefed with all those Brexit myths countered. As for rejoin the EU or EEA, it depends on the political and public mood. Joining the EEA would allow leavers to say ‘we told you so’, but argument for rejoining the EU could be made against regaining what we lost.
Well said
The Express is still, every single day, publishing anti-EU messaging in its stories. It's all BS of course but nevertheless, this is what your average Joe gets to read in his MSM feed.
@@joh22293 You have to ask yourself why the Express is still doing that. After all, we aren’t in the EU anymore. Is it perhaps to use the EU as a scapegoat to cover everything up that’s going wrong with Brexit? Or is it to keep reinforcing the message so that people won’t consider going back to the EU i.e they made the right decision and to build a foundation of hatred for the EU? If the latter, then Brendan is absolutely right, the pro-EU side needs to keep countering that message.
@@northyorkshirechris5735
...or perhaps to prepare Joe for the ever increased hostilities against the countries between England and Russia?
@channeleightythree083 A somewhat harsh perspective, which completely disregards the millions of people who actually voted to remain, against what was only 38% of the electorate who were persuaded by deliberate lies and foreign interference from such as US Republicans and Russia. Many Brits that voted leave are already realising that they were conned. Your view also fails to take into account that it was mainly the older demographic that voted to leave - the younger generation are significantly more pro-European and it’s their views that will come to prevail.
I would agree that rejoining is many years away and both public attitudes and the views of our politicians will have to radically change before the EU contemplates whatever is left of the UK coming back. As the British saying goes: ‘once bitten, twice shy’.
The thing is, there were referendum election broadcasts in 1975 which used the terms 'European unity', 'closer political and cultural integration' etc with the then EEC, indeed Edward Heath even used the term 'ever closer union' on occasion. So it is a myth that the British had been told the EEC was just an economic project. Indeed, the brexiteers used the idea that the EU was 'not what we signed up to' anymore for one of the main reasons for leaving.
Its basically impossible to separate trade and politics anyway
An interesting discussion. But the UK’s failure in the EU is not only (or even mainly) about the EU. We have a cynical, angry and irresponsible electorate who support cynical, unprincipled, irresponsible politicians, a political system long overdue for reform, full of gross imbalance and disproportion, and a delusional national self-image. I see this as part of a long sequence of post-imperial decline and decadence.
The trouble with this analysis is that it presumes all lies were on the Brexit side. Actually the biggest and most consequential lie was made well before the Referendum and that was by Dustmann on behalf of the Blair government, ie opening the borders to 10 accession countries would only result in 13,000 additional immigrants per year. Therefore the UK (unlike Germany and most other EU countries) did not need interim controls. The reality was the numbers were more than 20X what had been predicted. Britain's population grew twice as fast as anywhere else in Europe, equivalent to four cities the size of Birmingham, the same figure that it grew in the previous 37 years. Not sure what your experience was but in my town they were putting primary schools in office blocks. The UK population was on track in a few decades to be approaching 100 million in the middle of a climate change crisis.
@@catinthehat906 A miscalculation rather than a lie, surely? In any case, not an inevitable consequence of EU membership.
@@robertjohnstone718 Lie or miscalculation- this is the realm of epistemology and semantics. The plan to significantly increase immigration to the UK, including not applying transitional controls in 2004, was made by a small cabal of New Labour politicians and economists without any discussion with the UK electorate. Nothing in the manifesto, zilch. Although Barbara Roche did give a private speech in September 2000 saying this was the governments intention, but not to the electorate- to the British Bankers Association. I would suggest your description of cynical, unprincipled, irresponsible politicians applies just as much to the class of 2004 as it does to the current incumbents. Had the decision been made to mirror Germany and most other countries and apply transitional controls we would probably still be in the EU.
@@catinthehat906 I think there’s a rather obvious difference between a lie and a miscalculation. Also, do you recall how many refugees Angela Merkel allowed into Germany? That said, this discussion confirms the suggestion that Brexit was motivated largely by anti-immigrant feeling, and that it had nothing to do with the “EU rules”” the UK was supposedly obliged to follow - since, as you point out, other EU countries followed different policies. The British electorate never seemed to realise that they could vote out governments instead of swallowing the lie that all unpopular policies were the EU’s fault. Though admittedly the UK electoral system is somewhat rigged.
@@robertjohnstone718 Calculations are based on a variety of assumptions and therefore always potentially inaccurate. Then you have the additional factor of the elected representatives willingness to accept particular calculations that suit their political purposes. The issue of miscalculation and lie is not as clear cut as you would like to believe.
Gentlemen,
Very interesting insights, thank you. I agree that the narrative about the EU is a decisive factor, but I am convinced your discussion about sovereignty or economical benefits won't do the trick. The problem in the UK is far deeper.
M. Thatcher IMHO only saw the EU as a cash machine. Her narrow minded shop keeper soul was obsessed with getting more money out than she put in. That mentality has prevailed until today. Thatcher wanted her money back, and brexiters wanted 350m a week for the nhs. Both were short sighted and unable to see the big picture.
The problem.
The problem is not sharing joint food standards or agree emission limits. The problem is much deeper.
The English have a deep cultural connection with us Europeans. They have great poets, writers, painters, and philosophers, and these mingled accross Europe with like minded artists, English composers went to learn from Bach or Beethoven, and Joseph Haydn went to London where he created his most famous works. Wellington fought side by side with Blücher against Napoleon, and Churchill with Dr Gaulle against Hitler. The English are a nation of migrants from Saxony, mixed with Normans and Romans, the English language is therefore a mixture of German and French/Latin - no wonder we all find it so easy to learn.
The English Royal Family is basically German, and they had no problem with that until WW2, and were known to be part of House of Hannover.
But what happened? The two world wars led to immense propaganda and new narratives. The Royals re-named themselves Windsor, which is a freely invented name, and everything European became bad. A narrative was spun of the heroic greater than European Britishman, who won the war by themselves, the catastrophic defeat of Dunkerque was somehow turned into a finest hour, and every child was fed the narrative that Germans were evil, French were weak and Italians were cowards, but Brits "as a nation always punched above their weight." And we all know that that's plain bullshit. Nobody in Europe believes this crap but on your island it's been conserved.
European nations recognised their common history, they managed to dump the old hatred and build a new continent. The French forgave the Germans, not all of them, but they don't hold a grudge against young people born 2 generations after the war like the Brits do. Even Germany and Poland have reconciled, and even Germany and Russia - there is no war rhethoric in politics and I never encountered grudges between people.
Only you Brits have never moved on from the war and post-war propaganda. You still deny that our culture is European, your language is European, and your Royals. You look down on all of us from your high horse. And You can't admit that the US saved your arses from fascism. Britain was practically finished before the Americans entered the war and you should be grateful to them to saving your freedom and independence. Instead, many of you belittle their contribution
You don't acknowledge the contribution of polish air squads that operated from your soil, or of French soldiers who fought by your side, nor do you acknowledge the countless other nations that helped, because it doesn't fit the narrative of "two world wars and one world cup".
The British never had to be honest to themselves, because they were the ones who wrote the history books. In that narrative - which no one on the continent buys into - the empire was some kind of heroic selfless deed.
Why can't you face up? English people are human and no different from French, Germans, or Polish, the Brits descended from them. Your island wasn't saved from invasion because you plucky Brits were just so much better than the Europeans , it wasn't invaded because it's a bloody island in the sea.
I mean look at you: You can't even control a customs border in your own territory FFS. And can you remember the Troubles? That was a 300 miles border against a bunch of rebels in passenger cars. Have you ever thought once about what you might have looked like had you been in the shoes of the French when Hitler's war machine rolled over them through Belgium without warning? Do you really believe you would have stopped Hitler?
THAT'S the narrative you have to change, my friends.
And when you've done that, then we can talk about re-join.
And I really don't think that this will happen until 2024.
The most ironic thing is we cannot control our border/s despite being an island!
"I really don't think that this will happen until 2024" more like 2054!
I agree 100% that UK MUST get rid of its Empire thinking
Well said. As Fintan O'Toole explained: The English never overcame their two modes only Empire outlook on the world. You either rule, or are being ruled, that's it. They cannot deal with cooperation, negotiation, compromise, give and take, and they have never experienced the shifting of borders and populations and the resulting "messiness" of European realities. They only have Black or White.
There is irony in that British humour is famously self depracating at the core, yet never lead to actual self-examination or even self-reflection. The awareness of how others may perceive British behaviour seems to be limited to only amongst other British.
It's like correctly noticing that your entire family are as mad as a box of frogs, but never realising that you're part of that family and that outsiders may well have come to the same conclusion about you.
@@bosoerjadi2838
That's true. I came to the conclusion that the self-depreciating humour, or "British understatement", is a firm part of the narrative. If done by s.o. who feels exceprional and superior, it's just a way to be condescending and arrogant but without opening yourself to criticism.
On the current path the UK will more and more diverted from EU standerd (intensional?) By there own trade deals it also will probably make it more difficult to a-line again. Then there is the poison atmosphere that is created, it all makes it not likely that rejoining will happen in the near future.
As long as an English majority does not understand that the Empire is gone and no Spitfire will bring fresh fruit, there is no way. The "flexibility" GB handles international contracts ruined trust for two generations
Only if they would shut up now, but they are still talking...
Only Scotland and wales will be welcome to join EU and €uro :)
I am not sure that the EU will treat them different than other countries who want to join. There is no bonus for Scotland and Wales because the EU is not interested in destroying the UK as Union. The UK market is important for the EU and not playing games with the UK. Business first...
@@klausschumacher7126 for sure many country want to join EU and €uro, they need time to fix theire problem before joining, independant Scotland wont be left alone as it used to be in :)
@@klausschumacher7126
The Commission already said that Scotland won't get special treatment.
But they also said that in certain areas alignment will be very simple as SCO has followed EU rules for 47 years.
But let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Fist SCO has to regain it's independence and sovereignty, and we won't interfere with that process.
@@YouD0ntSay not sure there is still enough support. my guess, it will still be a NO but less so than last time. but even though it becomes an independent country, there will be so much problem wrt their border. the existing NI border crisis will look like a garden walk compared to that. and scotland has its fair share of brickshitters to create all sorts of problem.
Rejoin the EU for economical reasons? I think (EU citizen perspective here) this will not happen (We won't let it happen as it is sherry picking. The truth is, UK or England has to accept the WHOLE project at it evolves every day and includes POLITICAL INTEGRATION. So as you say, there is a huge work to be made in England BUT NOT ONLY THERE! EU citizens formerly friends of the UK, because of high political tensions ARE NOT AT ALL WELCOMING THE UK as of what we see today. You will have to convince us in a big way.
The other aspect is, the UK joined the European project very late (1973) while it was started in 1951. Already the UK experienced difficulties when it joined the European Project. Now the UK has left and all these years of separate living will mean MUCH BIGGER AND INCREASING DIFFERENCES. To be frank almost all the convergence efforts will have to come from the UK people. Remember the UK used to have a golden seat in Europe that it will NEVER get back (now a country exactly as the other EU countries. Not more not less.
Too early to rejoin? We (EU) are not enthusiasts about having the UK Show-stopper back. On the other hand, the more the UK waits the more formidable differences will exist. Remember that the present UK government is doing ALL IT CAN TO DESTROY ALL EU-UK bridges and they are succeeding and an anti-UK animosity is building up here. So up to YOU, UK citizens, the work is huge, cannot be started with the present party (what Tory party has become and that "democracy repairs are needed URGENTLY (no way without them): constitution, elected chambers, etc)
The EU Super state?: the persons saying this have hot air instead of a brain. The EU total staff is 24,428 to be compared with the US 19.77 million staff (2020 numbers). The EU budget is €1074.3 billion while the US expenditure is $6.818 trillion because of a large deficit revenues is $4.046 trillion. As you can see the superstate is not one. Don't forget we have many more citizens here 460 million compared with US 330 million.
Hello, brit here, I hope we do rejoin the EU one day. I'm more than happy to get rid of the pound and join the euro and schengen. Things are really not going well in the UK. The brexit minister has resigned and the economy is going to be 4% worse off. Our future lies in the EU and it always will do.
true, the current majority of EU nations and people have had it with the UK still thinking they're a global empire, completely forgetting that aside from being a large economy, they're also one of the countries with the largest debts and least growth. By the time they "can" rejoin, the country either doesn't exist anymore, or would be so close to bankrupcy that they wouldn't be worth the trouble
@@03MARA01 ever thought of going to live in the e.u. it just might cheer you up a little bit
@@barrystubbs983 Ever thought that re-joining the EU would demonstrably cheer up now over 50% of the polled population who regard Brexit as a mistake???
There is no easy path back into the EU for the UK, even if an overwhelming majority voted to re-join. The UK will definitely never be able to regain its for privileged position within the EU. Re-joining in, e.g.2030, would also require introduction of the Euro and no opt-out on contributions and/or legislation.
The UK will never, ever seek to re-join the eu. It took us years to escape from the clutches of the intended super state, There would be blood on the streets first.
Brexit is like "The Charge of the Light Brigade". "Someone has blundered..." and the people of the UK now have to live with the inevitable consequences, while leaders of the Leave campaign (like Farage and Dyson) have abandoned ship, and Boris "Benny Hill" Johnson has been left in charge of the country. The odds for a country could not be much worse.
Yes very much so. There is no REJOINING but simply an application to join the EU and accept all its rules at the time of application (2030? 2040? never?). We in the EU are definitely not ready to make a special case for Britain.
Remember the US saying? America, Love it or leave it. Same with the EU and 450 million people will be watching
@@mikewillby4913 nevr is a LONG time
@@johnjeanb You have to be joking, the question is which country is the next to leave the crumbling insolvent EU.
Michael Lloyd? I would suggest a better vetting of his CV before calling him for expert advice.
A interesting discussion- problem is that your discussion start where we are now bu the Europe will be very different in 10 years.
Scotland will be independent and have joined EU
Ireland will be unified and member of EU
Wales will be on it’s way to independence and future member of EU
England will have applied for membership of EU but is turned vetoed of one or more of the members
A completely different scenario
veto'd by all the former UK members xD
@@TheChill001 I can see you are an Anglophobe
Those that propose going back surely if your interest is with been under Brussels why not relocate to one of 27 nations your problem is solved
Just goes to show how small scale you are thinking. The point isn't personal benefit. Thats why.
Also, I think we should stop talking about "Sovereignty". IMO it is being badly misused. We are not "sharing sovereignty" we are entering into an "agreement". We can stick to that agreement, or we can defer from that agreement, but the gift in that is our sovereign decision to make. We make a sovereign decision to follow our agreements, or we make a sovereign decision to defer from them. But we are, at ALL times, sovereign. It is the anti-EU movement that has deliberately misused the term "sovereignty" in order to demonize the EU as some kind of "sovereignty stealer".
Agreed, Brexit=getting back what you already had and never lost
The word is "demur".
And the UK electorate voted to leave the EU. They will not vote to "rejoin" it.
@@nicodesmidt4034 The UK electorate appear to totally disagree with you.
@@happy.uk.patriot no they didnt
@@nicodesmidt4034 Brexit; solving the problems you never had with introducing real problems.
It's very unlikely that all EU members would vote to allow us back - we've burnt too many bridges - only a very pro-EU government would allay their concerns - even Labour probably would be that pro-EU. We might be allowed to have membership of the customs union, and perhaps the single market. Eventually, when we have proven we can behave we may be allowed to apply to join as a full member. It will take some time for wounds to heal. Eventually authoritarianism and right-wing politics goes the way of the Dodo - it's a cycle, but the extent of how far the right-wingers can go gets ever more limited. Leaving the EU was a desperate attempt to gain back power by controlling the law and doing things which the EU would not allow, deregulation, restrictions on personal freedoms. The public will put up with only so much, a backlash will come and will be definitive, it may take a while. The Tories are still the 'nasty' party.
Actually ERG burnt many bridges on purpose so that the UK would never be accepted to rejoin.
@@derekmab7734 not gonna happen. period.
actually, labour wouldn't work. the EU is growing more to the right now that its shown just how disgusting its liberal policies have been, with macron going more right, with belgium and the netherlands leaning more to the right, it would be a joke if labour tried to get in with their agenda.
@@TheChill001 on the other hand, Sweden has a long history of social democratic government, Germany has moved left, and Portugal's socialists now have an outright majority
The overall picture is leaning more to the left, definitely economically if not culturally
@@markwelch3564 Left wing politics is a slowly dying thing in most countries only in Britain the hard left are fighting tooth & nail to be top dog ?. Across Europe the left is more out in the cold with Russian being the only place not in step and as Trump proves Republicans are still alive and kicking in 2023 in the West .
Don't reply to "Mark Merry", he is a Russian troll with very bad English and even worse keyboard skills. Ignore.
I hope we in the United States take heed.
It looks as though the UK will have to rejoin the Single Market on economic grounds, be a rule taker and just put up with it. I sympathise with Brendan Donnelly's points about lack of advocacy for the EU, but practically, there will be more impetus towards rejoining the Single Market. However there is a snag, in that lack of understanding of the EU might well cause UK officials and politicians to claim that they can rejoin with loads of negotiated concessions.
Joining EFTA is likely to meet resistance, the EFTA group would not welcome a trouble maker, however if it were possible, the UK would be subject to the EFTA court, rather than the Court of Justice of the EU.
I think we see a lot of British exceptionalism in terms of rejoining the EU or single market and customs union which is almost as bad as Brexiteers use of British exceptionalism
For Christ's sake: NO. No more UK as members of the EU. And if: the British pound has to be replaced by the EURO.
Its just too much incompatibility and no chance of happening at least in 50 yrs....just purely transactional trade is possible nothing more.
@@linkme2dnet like it was intended to be until politicians smelt the possibility of power
When Jaques Delors addressed the TUC on the Social dimensions of The EU the Tories became anti EU
Nothing less than total capitulation would be anticipated from our former colleagues in such a scenario.
The lie’s and fantasy continue unabated with their ludicrous nonsense about a pandemic. Switching off now.
No ifs no buts the UK needs to stay out of the EU.
Not pretend to be out by the use of media lies but OUT.
STAY OUT
Sovereignty sharing ??? It's all one traffic though. Can't see the UK in the single market and eu accepting uk rules in addition to uk accepting those written Brussels. Its entirely one way traffic.
The UK will never agree to sovereignty sharing. Would they understand the concept, they wouldn't have left.
Its either their way or the highway. Presently they are on the highway, going into the opposite direction.
For the UK "sovereignty" is synonym for dominance.
We had sovereignty sharing, but sharing it wasn't enough for the UK, they wanted their way all the time.
There is no basis left for it, and anyone who thinks the EU would get into anything that gets them more entangled with the UK is insane.
The best the UK can hope for is unilateral acceptance as long as they don't divert too much. And it's entirely up to the UK how much they divert, and up to the EU how much they accept.
That's the opposite of sovereignty sharing, and the UK imposed this new way upon us.
@@YouD0ntSay only a purely transactional(and tit for tat) type relation is possible. just that - nothing else. shouldn't even agree to discuss this anytime soon.
I agree. Focus on the Single Market and stop talking about rejoining the EU entirely. Once we are members of the Single Market, then the argument for having more say in what happens in the Single Market becomes powerful. But the country will accept reentry into the Single Market more easily than re-joining the EU itself. Also the EU would not allow us to simply rejoin without a long probationary period as citizens of the Single Market.
EFTA countries already spoke out against UK joining, so might be a problem
You're not going to be in the Single Market. The EFTA wants nothing to do with you and neither do we.
@@thevoid5503 who’s “we” ?
@@nicodesmidt4034 The European electorate, obviously. Particularly those in the countries closest to the UK who they have pissed off the most. All you need is one country blocking them and they are toast.
@@thevoid5503 true, however most governments still live in the past. Time for green and social reform, UBI and taxes on polluting the world
Even discussing the subject shows the arrogance thinking the EU wants the UK back in.
The EU have publicly asked the UK to rejoin many times
The British Public are badly educated. Ever since I attended a lycee and did a term in a Gynasium I realised that we specialise too early and on the wrong things. I did not find that a more extensive curriculum was anything but liberative and helpful in taking a broader and infomed perspective on current affairs .Especially Geography, Statistics and Philosophy.
Is that why most countries have 1000s of students that scramble to get here to get a British education and most things that were invented of any value was invented in these small Islands ?. Even the thing your working - on was invented by a Brit . - The Net . If your a REAL Brit . bow your head in shame ,if your a whinging ,moaning Remainer please move to mainland Europe ,they will welcome ex - Brits. who cannot live or work in this country ! .
Gdp down, great for working man thou more jobs more logistics, less eu citizens setting up blag companies paying no tax everyone more accountable, big business loss working man gains prices may rise but so will hmrc tax collection, good for pensioners
Could you correct your grammar and have a go at expressing yourself more clearly????
Never.
No way, stick you head were tha sun. Don’t shine, 😇🇬🇧
Well said comrade 🇷🇺
@@666mrdoctor I British my mother father more than played there part in ww2 , thanks to them has a OAP I can speek my Mind with no Political come back. And am still fighting For Freedom.😇🇬🇧
Your putting the E U be four the uk
"be four"???
🤣
@@childoftheuniverse2644 You crying becuse you lost ther ther
@@markmerry1471 ,oh dear, it looks like you even skipped the primary school.
🤫🤔🤨
@@childoftheuniverse2644 don't think so
I think that i may direct you to the 1860 meeting between T H Huxley and Bishop Wilberforce but i don't think you will look it up. As id not think you can read yet.
so I do not wont see a sad little boy cry so buy buy you sad little man
@@markmerry1471 , 😂😂😂
That's your best?
The dictatorship had plenty of opportunities to change it's ways, it didn't, hence the "democratic mandate" to leave.
The democratic mandate in Scotland and Northern Ireland was to remain, so they will have to take back control sooner or later, perhaps become independent as the English dictatorship is affecting other UK nations. There has been an upsurge in welsch nationalism since the brexit vote.
Additionally, the UK has plenty of unelected peers and only parties with a 5% representation of voters get counted!!! And last but not least, the UK has not got a proper written Constitution.
That is the grim reality of British democracy.
The UK is the dictatorship.
@@caballoloco100 Little diddums is throwing his dummy out of his pram.
@@KinchasaurasRex Is that all you've got?....oh dear!
@@grahamsmith9541 Nein (no in german) the little diddums is taking back control of his pram and will throw brexitards out, because... is fast and furious.
We don't want the Unraveling Kingdom in our Union. You're out. Stay out. Forever.
you are one
Could you timing to leave have been any worse considering Covid and Global Warming?
If we had left when we where supposed to have left.your statement would have lost the 1% of value it had.
The EU are on parr with the USA for untrustworthy democracy.
I'm glad we are out but I have a bit feeling the public are been tricked.
@@markthompson4478 as a european, I will agree there's nothing democratic about the EU, but the brazen decision of leaving the EU didn't and doesn't make any economic sense. It endangers the future of the UK. It would've been smarter to actually gather up people to try and reform the damn thing from the inside rather than now licking your wounds.
@@TheChill001 allowing for corrupt politicians
Allowing for untrustworthy media
Allowing for the undemocratic EU
The best thing any country can do is
get out
Stay out of The EU.
Any economic loss will be over come with time.
@@markthompson4478 Careful Mark - your making the conversation seem sane ! .
The only problem with all of this is. The EU will not be there soon, so all your waffle is wasted Mr X pert! Rule Britannia 😁
🤣🤣🤣The corrupt UK will have long split before the EU. Who is going 1st, Scotland or Northern Ireland?
Free the 4 🏴🇮🇪🏴🏴, End the British Dictatorship NOW
Dream on....
@@KinchasaurasRex Scotland & N.I . are together with the rest of Britain because of the English parliaments - money ?. Scotland would have left during the last referendum on a split if the money tap had been turned - off ! . Most English and maybe the Welsh couldn"t care less what the Northern Irish and Scots get up to especially if they are being led by the Donkeys in the S.N.P. ?.
UCL IPP Post Brexit Utube Damon Si
Damon Silvers
The public voted leave: the UK has to stay out or just admit democracy doesn’t exist
Can't you see that's a silly thing to state? Changes of course are normal else, for example, you wouldn't have a vote to complain about and, should a future generation hold views which differ from those which won any particular day, they could not be enacted. To follow your reasoning the 1975 referendum on Europe Communities membership (where the result was far more clear cut than in 2016, with more than 67% for membership) would have been the end of the case.
@@erict.watson2460 The things we were promised on the original ‘in’ vote were never realised. We were lied to to and got a ideologically framed dictatorship as a reward.
Any form of mass centralisation only ever leads to ideological control that pleases no one, and they use ideological weaponised media to achieve it. Case in point: the BBC
@@karlosthejackel69 you, sir, are beyond help. I'm not going to point out why as you can either see it and are wilfully misrepresenting reality or you can't and no amount of effort by others will help you. If it's any consoltation Lord Reith is probably spinning in his grave at what has become of the BBC in politically motivated times.
@@erict.watson2460 hear hear
The referendum just said ' should we leave the E.U.' There was nothing there about never rejoining.
*"No 'ifs' no 'buts'... Britain's place is in the EU".*
You'll have to slide that one past the UK electorate.
Which, ofc, you will not.
And it may come as a shock to you, but we're OUT of the EU.
We left it.
You think it's all about GDP and "business". You tried all this stuff for the last five years.
I notice that in all your scheming, you've forgotten about the one most important matter...
The UK electorate.
You will not get it past them.
*"You'll have to slide that one past the UK electorate."* - Let's have a vote tomorrow. I'm game.
@@lellyparker we already had one pal
@@shunnp4175 *"we already had one pal"* - I guess you're too scared to have another one. But this is still a democracy. There will be more referendums in the future.
The UK electorate still has no clue what is going to hit them. Secondly the referendum didn’t meet any requirements thus it was at best a non binding poll. Thus in the end this was a political gamble by the tories and everybody lost, having now this complete insane government dragging everyone down.
I have news for you. I will never accept this charade of lies, bollocks and bull shit costing us the world without any benefits. Even the usual brexit bollocks sovereignty and immigration turned out to be bollocks.
We knew. Yep.
@@lellyparker mmmmm salty!
Very interesting. The sound is awful. Joining the EU is about the UK accepting the political project. Otherwise do like Norway and pay for being part of the SM and CU (including the four free movements), without a say on rules and accepting the ECJ arbitration. It is really very much in the hands of the UK public. BTW there is no REJOINING. The UK or England will never get back all the preferential conditions (feather bed) it had before.
On the European side to avoid any veto from any 27 countries to the UK or England joining the EU there must be ample evidence that UK citizens are adhering to European ideals in a very positive way. FORGET cherry picking (Business but not this or that: political integration, etc)
Why did Brexit happened? Because it was very nice for, ALL parties in the UK to describe negative aspects of the EU EVEN within the Remainers. In fact ALL UK citizens were complaining about the EU one way or another.
When is the time? If the UK is interested (I am an EU citizen) it needs to work on it now. Not with an early application but by a thorough intellectual work of admitting Brexit was a deep mistake and that the EU is a joint construction and no big bully will come and tell others what they have to do. Remember there is a very high level of mistrust in the EU for the UK and EU people will be watching.
admitting Brexit was a deep mistake --- i suspect thats at least 2 or 3 years off
@@atomiccritter6492 doubt it. there is just too much bad blood. not worth it. there are other more important markets awaiting. lot more trade opportunities which are stuck for ages. lot more newer members have deep economic issues which needs fixing. EU economy has to massively train and invest in new technologies, make its business and industries more competitive. All those should be priority. not worth wasting any time on that lot.
Yep I spent more time with my beard parants
Then you q need spec savers
That have not got any money without us
the johnson did it and I have to leave, when this madman is gone
then england will join the european union
We won't ever rejoin the vile EU
@@stephenpockley5665 we won't let you either, so we agree on that xD
@@TheChill001 Excellent all round. UK should stay independent
No way back to that dictatorship
Idiotic comment. The UK has always had elected representatives with veto power in the EU...
I do not mean the one we voted in I mean the like of of vandgasbag and that lot how we would not be able to get rid of
And your steel a sad little loser how can not get his own way and do not like it
@@markmerry1471 I agree with both of you, the comment was idiotic, and we have a couple of authoritarian countries in the EU that we need to get rid of... So we will not allow another dictatorship to come back in....
@@toutousavelo1808 well said. Hungary is starting to come to more sensible terms, now that they won't milk more money from the EU cow they say to hate so much.
EUROPA UNION CORPORATION - No thanks.
Of you love the EU go and love there and by the way we lo e European we do not like being told shot to do by thoos we did not got for and cannot replace
And we will never rejoin the European union so get that in to your head
The European will not be there in 10 to 20 years time
Ooops, I think your word salad machine is broken, again.
You've just demonstrated that you know nothing about the EU...
Sad to see so many dumb down people being allowed to vote.
It is not a normal person why tell people to leave a country simply for having an opposing opinion.
@@Traitorman..Proverbs26.11
This guy is a Troll account. They don't understand their own arguments.
Their claim democracy but only If you vote as they please, if you not data have a different opinion, and they deny you your democratic right to campaign for what you believe in.
They sound like little dictators, and they get very upset if someone points out the facts about their brexshit.
I think Putin won't be there in 20 years. Who will pay you then? I can already see you trying to migrate here.
no way back.
The future belongs to the mostly pro-european British youth and Brexit is the revolution of the old...
The UK will be back at least to the Single Market and Customs union in less than 10 years.