I agree that it is a compelling piece of fiction and will remain as ficiton until the evidence provided for it is equal to the task. So far it falls short.
@@Dr88Black ISRAEL is to restored - Daniel 12. After the daily sacrifice is interrupted. 602BC, Babylon first invades, Daniel is told to skip forward 1290 moedim, a yearly festival. - this takes us to year 688AD. Daniel will see an abomination in God's holy place, the temple site. what is going on? the Muslims are building a mosque, at Abraham's Rock. the abomination that makes desolate is being built. the Muslims invaded in 636, Muhammad is dead 50 years. they build a mosque and say Muhammad rose from there to heaven? nice trick, he's dead 50 years. The mosque is dated by Muslims. commissioned in 685, building starts in 688AD, ends in 691. - so Daniel now is told to wait 1335 days-years and a blessing will occur. what sort of blessing in 2023-24? The other date is given 1260 years. we add 1260 to 688AD. Israel is created in 1948. so Daniel gave you three year counts 1260-1290-1335. if he is fake? he would give dates that have no relevance. 1200, 1400, 1500, and nothing happens. if he is out by ten years? if he says 1280. then it does not match with the dome. if he says 1400 instead of 1260, Israel's rebirth would be missed. He has only three NUMBERS. its like a punch card designed for pins. if the holes do not match the pins spacing it will not hang up. its four points in time. THREE EVENTS LINE UP. The last event is to happen in 2024. i suspect the rapture. at LIBRA day one. what you call HALLOWEEN. it might be three weeks away? maybe a year. but i have high confidence in halloween. its not a pagan holiday to me, its Feast of Trumpets. LIBRA ONE.
Those people are called 'fools'. Those who invented religion are fools. Those who promote it are charlatans and those who believe it are weak and silly.
It seems to me that God left us a literal photograph of Jesus at the instant of Resurrection and, if true, that is the most amazing discovery of human history. Nothing else comes close.
All it proves is that the cloth is old! Ageing occurs also due to mishandling so the age could be way out. The image is wrong anyway (arm length) which suggests art and even if could be dated to 1st century no proof it is Jesus so a long long way to go!
It's not just a photograph. It's a photo negative. Photography with film produces a negative image which has to be rendered positive in another step of developing the photo. The Shroud image is a photo negative from before the age of photography. There are no examples of photo negative images in art before the age of photography. The Shroud is obviously the burial cloth of Christ.
Experimentations in photography took place over the centuries. Early experimentations we're done by drilling a hole in a wall and letting the light reflect refract through it that an artist could get a rough sketch. Artist also had other simple instruments that would take a image of a live person then refracted onto a canvas trace sketch it, then would later be filled in with paints producing a life-size image of the person . Throughout the years they started treating pieces of cloth canvases with Solutions and chemicals that would speed up the image time.
@@fordsrestorations970 go to school. American education is a scandal. I don't waste my time on people who jump in with nonsense. Show me your sources for any photographic process from the 1st Century, or any time before the 1800s. Find an example of photonegative art from before the age of photography. You can't argue from supposition or speculation. You're making a truth claim. You need evidence.
@@valerieprice1745 if you ever heard of the Antique Business , then you will know that you can still buy these 2000 year old burial Strouds today , in fact you can buy 2 , 3 , 4,000 year old swords Shields, helmets, leather goods , coins, bowls, vases, etc. etc. As we all studied in the 5th and 6th grade that Leonardo was a master Forger , he would use actual artifacts from ancient days and then recreate them into the piece that he desired. As you know that he earned most of his money from selling forgeries to Catholic churches throughout Europe and the Middle East.
Our great King and Lord Jesus Christ is as real as we humans are breathing! Lord Jesus Christ your people love you dearly and are awaiting your glorious return. We love you Lord!! ❤🙏✌❤
@@FrikInCasualMode The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a forgery. The Christian Church is grasping at straws to prove that their god is not imaginary like all the other gods people worship.
A believer in 'the Way' only instruction is to tell the Gospel - not to argue with non believers. They have heard and choose not to believe- that's the choice everyone has to make...acceptance or rejection. Jesus said some wouldn't believe even if someone returned from the dead. As for me and my house we will honor the Triune God of the Bible!
I believe. ❤ I brushed this off for so many years, and then, I saw a scientific documentary about the Shroud. Every inch of doubt in my mind disappeared. I just believed. That was two years ago.
You made an excellent point here that I've made before. If we assume the Shroud was created in the 14th century, then the artist would have been "flying blind" so to speak. The Shroud image could not really be fully seen until the invention of photo negativity with contrast enhancement 600+ years later, so the putative artist would've had to have somehow made an image with extreme details that *he himself couldn't even see*, using some sort of technology that is unknown and cannot be replicated to this day, for people hundreds of years later to find!
In 1543, John Calvin, in his book Treatise on Relics, explained the reason why the Shroud cannot be genuine:[51] In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned. John 20:7 The cloth that had been around Jesus' head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths.
@@DrMontagueMS Co Pilot gives the counter argument to this if you type “how do people believing shroud of Turin to be true answer to John Calvin's statement why it can't be in 1543 in the book treatise on relics?”
@@DrMontaguethere is also too much scientific evidence now that proves it to be real, containing blood not paint, and the image being multi layered so it could not be predicted by the viewing equipment that was not available at that time.
What the most fascinating fact about the shroud is that it's a series of superimposed images indicating MOVEMENT! Why this fact is not being mentioned is beyond me.
Yes it not only predates negative photography, but holography, and motion capture technology! Simply amazing beyond words. In modern pop culture media, the holographic image of Michael York in LOGAN'S RUN (1976) is an example of the type of holographic imagery in the Shroud.
Pleased to find this video. The Shroud becomes even more fascinating with every new development, and I’ve been particularly curious to learn more details on this new test.
"Folding the cloth was a cultural sign that the user intended to return. It was especially used at meals to indicate to the servants that the diner was not finished. Jesus was indicating that He would come again to Earth."
In 1543, John Calvin, in his book Treatise on Relics, explained the reason why the Shroud cannot be genuine:[51] In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned. John 20:7 The cloth that had been around Jesus' head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths.
@@DrMontague by analogy, I don't know if this is J's actual shirt or just a Hot Topic item. I'm just down with the clown. If you get the ICP/Juggalo analogy.
What really has always nailed this down to being the authentic burial Shroud of Jesus of Nazareth and a physical artifact of the resurrection event is the nature of the image captured on the linen shroud - in terms of the physical science involved. It is a photograph negative image as caused by a electromagnetic energetic source. This is established by fact there is no pigment or dye responsible for the image but instead the very fibers of the linen cloth got altered at the molecular level by the radiating source of energy. And only top most fibers in direct linear line-of-sight with the radiating source are so altered. The fibers at underlying layers are not so altered. If there were any other manner of cause of this image - paint pigment, dye, application of chemical substance, then there would have been bleed through that would have affected the underlying fibers. Only a radiating energy source directed at the linen shroud would cause an impact only on the top most fibers. Now photo sensitive materials were discovered by humanity in the early 1800s and thus the technology of photography was born. However, linen is not the least bit photo sensitive. Consequently, it requires an extraordinary energy source in order to generate a photograph negative on linen cloth. But the catch is that if such a powerful radiating source persisted for too long a period of time, then it would cause the incineration of the linen cloth material. Clearly this mechanism - per the negative image captured on the Shroud - was not attended by any incineration of the the linen fibers. Consequently the time pulse duration of the energy source had to be both extremely powerful, at an appropriate frequency to best register on the material of linen fibers, and of a very minute duration of time so as not to combust the Shroud. It had to be extremely finely tuned or balanced in respect to these three factors. Where else have we seen such extreme fine tuning or balancing practically defying human comprehension? Well, that is the very enigma of our Universe as there are many science books that have been written on the subject matter of the fine tuning of the physical constants and other physical law relationships that enable our Universe to exist and operate. There are a number of scientist that have also come to see this fine tuning of our Universe as a kind of signature of God. The fine tuning of the Shroud of Turin is right there in this same camp of ultra extreme, mind boggling fine tuning, i.e., is a signature of God. Humanity today, 700 years ago, or 2000 years ago does not possess the ability to create a photographic negative image as like exist on the linen fiber material of the Shroud of Turin. That is just the plain reality of the extent of humanity's technological prowess. Today we could replicate the process on a very small scale, but not on the scale of the size of the Shroud. Our technology would not be able to produce the sufficient energy level nor time such a radiating energy burst with the required fine tuning balance. The skeptics that hand wave this all away are not very intelligent people (to say the least) and/or are acutely dishonest with the facts of the matter.
@@1974jrod there is no paint pigmentation - the affected linen fibers have been examined under high magnification. Skeptics need to keep in mind that this is the most scientifically studied historical object on the planet - since the 80s this manner of scientific scrutiny has not let up. It’s not like some high schooler took out a magnifying glass to peer over it. The layer of affected fibers is a few nanometers - even using modern lasers it would be challenging to duplicate the delivery of energy to impact to the very surface manner (but that also brings in the technical difficulty of delivering sufficient energy but of short enough duration so as to not incinerate the fibers - and then also the impossibility in that sufficient energy could not be amassed and delivered to create an image the size as on the Shroud, that being way beyond technical ability). But there is also a ridiculousness factor that attends every would-be Shroud explanation. As in how would a person 700 years ago or even today know how to create a photographic image on the Shroud that is a photographic negative in that when it is actually photographed it then reveals far greater detail in the photo negative then is apparent in the actual image? Effectively all the great detail were used to being shown only emerges through this method of being photographed, otherwise all that extraordinary detail is optically invisible to the human eye. So all these “explanations” put out by skeptics are simply utterly ridiculous because these people just deal in superficiality, pay no attention to the actual scientific facts because they want to ignore the reality of the import of the Shroud. They can’t psychologically handle the actual reality of the Shroud. But clearly that is their personal problem - that they lack inner strength of mind to deal with this reality as it actually is.
@@1974jrod that is truly the most asinine remark anyone anywhere has made about the Shroud. Please, if going to try and be a critic of the Shroud, at least have a minimum of two neurons to rub together. So one thing going on in these computer image recreations, like this latest image using AI processing assist, is that distortions in the photo negative from photos taken of the Shroud have to be corrected per topographical induced distortions. These distortions exist because the Shroud was draped over a human body. So no human created artwork is able to fake the effect of embedded topographical distortion. But when the Shroud image is scanned with a device used in creating topographical maps from aerial photographs, it provides the detail information that makes it possible to restore the image to proper contour, which yields a much more natural human looking countenance. So the facial features that appear somewhat mushed, the overly broad nose, etc, that becomes trued up and we get a much higher fidelity image reproduction. All because the Shroud was enveloping a human body at the time the image imprint took place and therefore yields back actual topographical information that can be used to true the image. This is the hard science of the Shroud - the detractors of the Shroud - with their jaw dropping asinine remarks - are the equivalent of monkeys at the zoo flinging their feces at human on lookers.
At this point, people better start bringing up the shroud when debating the resurrection, as it is a solid source of further evidence for the resurrection of Christ. (Edit: I’m not saying the shroud is 100% authentic or trustworthy, but the majority of evidence (Not including the outdated and poorly performed 1988 carbon dating study) points to it likely being authentic, with Experts giving it around 70% authenticity)
Do an experiment and lay on your bed with your shoulders and arms to your side. Now try to cover your genitals like the shroud. Sorry, but the proportions just don’t work.
Comical in the extreme. First of all this is still a maybe. Second even if it is from the time of christ it proves nothing in regards to where it came from specifically and is meaningless in regards to any resurrection
@caseyo2880 Yes, I would imagine that this 'solid source of evidence' is going to be responsible for huge swathes of people (especially those who are scientifically minded ) suddenly converting to Christianity.
@@caseyo2880 why do you think the gospels did not tell the truth about their being a separate face cloth? Are you saying that the gospel account of the burial is in accurate?
The shroud has been left for the purpose of proving Jesus' ressurection. No one to this day or the most advanced technology can replicate that image! Jesus ressurected, and He will come back!
How on earth does it "prove Jesus' ressurection"? How do you know that the guy is the image isn't just, well, dead? Even if we assume it a real image of a real man, how do you know WHICH SPECIFIC man it is? How do yoou know it's Jesus of Nazareth?
The image shows marks on the head consistent to where piercings were made there also. The Romans crucified many but never did they pierce the head as well as the hands and feet. But to mock Jesus as King of the Jews they placed a “crown “ of thorns on his head… this single difference is suggestive that surely this could be the cloth that covered Jesus’ body when it was taken down from the cross..
They didn’t follow the protocol. On purpose to get the results they wanted or because they were recklessly so prideful they didn’t see how using one sample was going to eventually result in people discarding them as serious scientists.
Those smug and hateful men were so proud to deny Jesus Christ and they thought they were so smart. I saw their picture and I immediately thought what a pack of stupid fools whose arrogance is clearly evident in this picture. When they died I bet they were shocked when they met Jesus and when Jesus denied them.
As a Christian, it makes sense to me that the church would have kept & preserved this artifact of Jesus' resurrection, considering that there was no corpse. The negative image also contains movement (like a video) & therefore appears somewhat distorted. This supports the idea that there was a resurrection. Jesus moved as He came back to life and powerfully transformed into His new supernatural body while simultateously exiting through the shroud.
Unrelated to this video but any plans to make an update video on Sister Wilhelmina? The diocesan investigation just concluded and said "The body of Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster does not appear to have experienced the decomposition that would have normally been expected under such previous burial conditions”. Apparently she was in a wooden casket which had broken and had water on top of it. And she was in the ground for four years before being exhumed. Would be interesting to hear an experts opinion on this.
This is incredible. Even believers scared to admit that it's an authentic shroud of our Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen it everywhere, believers try to debunk it. Can you imagine that?
As a believer I don’t want to debunk it, I just don’t want to put a face to Jesus that isn’t the real thing. For example I love the theatrical and TV depictions of Jesus, but I don’t imagine that he looks exactly like any of them. This would be different because it would be of his actual face. That would seem too good to be true, so the evidence would have to be pretty indisputable. Not 100%, but with the albeit questionable carbon dating, I’m not ready to accept it as authentic, until they do a proper carbon dating. At that point I would be more inclined to believe it.
There is no obligation for a Christian to accept the divinity or providence of relics; those are personal expressions of faith. “I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.” I personally also subscribe to the next part about Catholicism, buuut I think as long as you’ve got the rest under your belt, you’re solid.
I know right. I was arguing with a guy last night about that. He kept saying I don't worship a cloth I worship the lord ..And that's good no one is expecting you to worship the cloth. But why can't you appreciate the fact that there is evidence of the foundation of that which we believe. It's a blessing . The lord saw to it that this cloth survived all this time for a reason. There are those that need something like this in order to help them believe. So if that's so be happy and thankful there is something there that shows people evidence of the whole foundation of the religion. Paul said if Jesus didn't die on the cross and wasn't resurrected by God . Then it's all for nothing . There are enough non believers talking against it without believers belittling it. If it helps you to believe in Jesus then it's a true blessing and should be accepted by believers with open arms. Thomas you are blessed bcuz you have seen and believed . But I say to you blessed are they who have not seen and yet have believed. Blessed to have seen and blessed not to have seen. Believing is the point. Whatever helps you to believe is a blessing that carries priceless value.
The ORIGINAL carbon dating was wrong because the sample takin was done on a part of the shroud that was repaired in the Middle Ages by nuns because that section had been scorched in a fire. That's why the carbon date showed a date from the Middle ages, it matched the date of the fire.
To think the shroud was in a fire in a church and survive is a miracle in it's self. I guess the devil wanted it gone, but no way was God letting that happen. I believe in Jesus and Love my Jesus for all of my life. One day I will be with Him in Heaven. ✝❤🔥
Isn't this a re-upload of the previous video? Anyway, I appreciate the info. I used to not believe that the shroud was actually authentic but now I'm convinced that it is
The Catholic Church is very restrictive on what tests can be done on the shroud-so it leads to creative testing methods that have actually caused breakthroughs in other fields of archaeology- because they want to preserve the artifact
@northernfarmer98 because it was in their possession for hundreds if not a thousand years or more- while it is fascinating and a powerful witness if real as Christians we don’t need this to support our belief.
@northernfarmer98 You ignore facts, history and misunderstand scripture if you don’t recognise the Catholic Church as the one and only church Jesus Christ established in 33AD.
@northernfarmer98 Christianity isn't just about following rules, and yet drunkards, slanderers etc will not inherit the kingdom. Following rules is part of what makes up the Christian lifestyle. Belonging in the exact institution Jesus explicitly started by making His disciple follow a hierarchy is too a part of christianity. You follow this channel, Cameron is a convert to catholicism so you should extend more charity to this, if you respect his judgement.
@northernfarmer98"I am the vine, you are the branches." One Church (one vine) cannot be divided into 40,000 denominations (40,000 vines) which disagree with each other (branches belong to the same plant, not separate plants unto themselves). One mustard seed grows into one tree, not 40,000 trees. That is what it means to have One Mystical Body.
Sean McDowell is really a great apologist and has one of the best podcasts here on YT - he’s one of the people who says ‘Who Cares’ if the Shroud is Authentic - ‘So What?’ - Russ Breault explains here perfectly why that’s such a totally ridiculous position to take.
What's happening in the media right now is quite intriguing. I've been aware of this dating for two years because I've been following the research of that scientist on the Manoppello image. Back in 1988, when the carbon dating was done, it made headlines worldwide. However, the recent dating has received far less attention and has been notably downplayed. Now it is changing since the media got their interest ... wonder why now ...
@@Metanoia_Magna Princ of piece. It's painting by girl who saw many beautiful visions and Jesus himself. So she's eyewitness there's many more people and toddler who saw Him. Not nesseraly face always.
@@Metanoia_Magna I don't see a huge problem. Hair chould be cut of for example. Colour of eyes chould be mixed because when people see Jesus they are in deep shock. It's hard to describe bone structure and face shape. Most people describing same feel when meeting him. And pretty similar visuals like colours of light or visual of blue fire
What doesn't add up yet, is they keep saying "if" the shroud was kept at relatively normal conditions and temperatures then this new aging comparison is valid. BUT we know the shroud was in A FIRE. SO isn't that an obvious temperature degradation thing that could lead this newer evidence astray?
I always think its amazing that Jesus is reconised in every painting of him , no matter how different . Sometimes the apostles would be depicted like Jesus , yet we know they are not Jesus .
There is a spanish study by the guys studying the Sudarium of Oviedo and The Shroud that trace the first images of Jesús and should that they were based on the Shroud but that was known as the Image of Edesa and then the Mandillion, its facinating...
My understanding is the sample was taken from a corner that was repaired by the Franciscan Poor Clares nuns in the 1300 hundreds. They do know that there was a repair. Please speak about this.
We don't do carbon dating anymore because we were screwed over the first time and we don't like cutting into the actual burial shroud of our Lord and Savior.
screwed over?:D You mean when carbon dating method calculated the age to be exactly the same as first historical mentions about the shroud, that randomly appeared in France out of nowhere? How anyone can have such a strong wishful thinking to not see the obvious scam behind this with given evidence, is a mystery to me...
if this _is_ the Burial Shroud of Jesus Christ, that means we're looking at an actual photographic/x-ray-graphic image of our Lord and Savior, and it serves as physical proof of the Resurrection itself! how anyone could _not_ be absolutely mesmerized by its very existence is beyond me!
I'm an atheist. I've been critical of certain videos on this channel and others, especially when you feature cagey exorcists who make wild claims, and then offer lame excuses for why they can't show evidence. I think the Shroud of Turin is fascinating. The image so far defies attempts at natural explanation, and I'm very, very interested to see corroborating evidence for the revised date. I'm not a "committed atheist" (whatever that even means). I'm an atheist by default because religious arguments suck. The Shroud is the first religious thing in my adult life that I've looked at and thought, "Hmm, that might be compelling." Russ Breault is right. If the Shroud is authentic, it speaks to the greatest story ever told, and the greatest event in human history. I don't know why the whole of the Christian world isn't clamoring nonstop for more tests. 🤷♂
Interesting comment. I can feel Christ is knocking at the door to your heart. Open that door and you will be surprised about the power of the holy spirit and the peace it brings. Amen 💖
Because it isn’t necessary. You can’t hinge the entire faith on one single object. Sure I think if it’s proven real it adds more evidence to the case, however from my view there exists enough evidence to reasonably believe in the Resurrection. So it’s more like a cherry on the sundae. The Church knows if they fully commit and 100% call this to be authentic and to be the shroud of Jesus and then it turns out false that could falsify the faith. The Church is very very carefully about what it determines to be true. There are many things we may believe that the church hasn’t infallibly taught like Limbo for example. One can agree or disagree with it. I hope that makes sense.
Look up Barrie Schwortz. He was an image expert on the 78 research team. Great story teller. Sadly he just passed away a few months ago. They never determined what made the image.
I may have mentioned this before but we also have the Sudarium of Oviedo (separate face cloth) that has 120 blood stains that line up with the shroud that was carbon dated to 750AD or so. This also proves the carbon dating is wrong.
@@jimmoore9490 yeah i haven't heard of it. I just Googled. I am speechless. Some people pointed out that there were two pieces of linen in the tomb in scriptures. Suggestiong that shroud can be real. So far it checks out. This is incredible. Thank you for writing this comment!
@@AndreLeBlonde1 Sorry if I got a little defensive. I deal with delusional atheists all of the time. There is one thing for sure about these artifacts and that is there is too much evidence. Only the very very creative delusional atheists can even come up with anything. But they will defend how we are related to jellyfish. I will say this also and that this blows my mind away that we have known about this supernatural 3d image since 1892 and I made 5000 postcards and when I hand them out only about 1 in 20 even knows what it is or has every heard about it.
@@AndreLeBlonde1 Man the AI bots are removing my posts again. Sorry I got defensive I deal with delusional atheists all of the time. But if this doesn't get removed, we have known about this image since 1892. I hand out shroud cards and 1 in 20 knows or has even heard of it.
@thatguyyouis: That's not surprising......Islam is a lot younger than Christianity so it probably would contain elements of the older religion. Most religions (including Christianity) are based on previous religions.
@@paganphil100nope, Christianity is PURELY BASED ON judaism. Our old testament is the hebrew bible. Christianity is the continuation of second temple judaism. No other religion has an impact on christianity in doctrine asides that. I get youre a pagan probably terribly biased against Christianity but learn to say the truth😅
And they might have done that on purpose, because they supposedly took 3 samples, each sent to a different lab, but the 3 samples came from the same little patch.
The evidence that the cloth is 2000 years old is not direct evidence that the Shroud is authentic. Skeptics will say that the so-called "artist" somehow obtained a very old cloth. This new dating evidence must be used in conjunction with the Shroud's 1988 radiocarbon test which found way too much carbon fourteen for a 2000 year old relic. The question is, "How did all that extra carbon fourteen get into the cloth?" One idea is that the 1988 sample was not a part of the original cloth. That idea is falsified on the grounds that the other relics of the crucifixion have also shown severely skewed radiocarbon readings. Another hypothesis is that, when Jesus' body dematerialized, it did more that just imprint its image on the Shroud. It also caused a neutron flux which converted the nitrogen in the linen fibers into carbon fourteen. This idea is supported by the finding that the other relics of the crucifixion also have skewed radiocarbon dates, but less so than the Shroud as they were further away from the source of the neutron flux. A spectrum analysis of a Shroud blood crust shows that its nitrogen is missing. Was that nitrogen converted into carbon fourteen by a neutron flux? See: "Could an Anomaly in the Turin Shroud Blood Reopen the 1988 Radiocarbon Dating Result?" World Scientific News, Vol. 162, pp. 102-109. Dead human bodies are not capable of causing a neutron flux. The evidence that Jesus' corpse was the source of such radiation is proof of a miraculous event.
The sheer stupidity of the way samples were taken when performing the C14 dating back in 1988 makes me wonder if it was done intentionally in order to produce false results.
Dr Ray Rogers who was a member of the STURP team was a chemist who specialised in materials and the testing of. He verified before his death in a Peer reviewed paper that the piece of material used for Carbon dating was a patch sewn into the shroud as the patch contained cotton. Hence the cotton through the carbon date out
Not sure if it was mentioned here but I remember reading an interesting report that found that the samples taken years ago for study were mistakenly taken from a repaired section of cloth. The repair was an invisible (to the eye) repair made by Nuns in medieval times.
Exactly. Just because it's blood, just because it's a blood type that matches other relics proves nothing. In fact, it proves it's possible lots of relics were faked to start a new religion, using the same blood.
@@glenwillson5073 it’s 100% match to the Gospel of John , it has 100% congruence with the sudarium of Oviedo which can be traced back to Christ . It has forensic evidence to place it in Jerusalem . The list is endless.
@@Shamsi419 THANK YOU. IF THIS WAS TRIED IN A COURT OF LAW WHERE A PROPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE WAS NEEDED (100% IS IMPOSSIBLE)THERE COULD ONLY BE ONE VERDICT, AUTHENTIC.
I don't know how the traditional wrapping process went. What makes me wonder is if the body was wrapped from head to toe, then what was the need for a head piece? If a head piece was used according to the Bible, and the image only penetrated the surface of one side of the cloth, why did it not show on a head piece? If the head piece went over the main shroud, again why was the head piece used? Christ was wrapped with two pieces, one was for the head.
NOT. The translation is wrong! It was NOT separate! Jesus died on the cross. He covered his head out of grace. Then with this handkerchief... because according to Jewish tradition, his place is in the grave ---- Then they tied his chin with this piece of canvas!!! This was the proof of the resurrection that he stayed there SEPARATELY - IN THE original place!!! „Közösség által ellenőrizve” ikon
When Selfies became viral, a woman in the 21st century goes, "look I have taken the First Selfie." Jesus- "I took the first Selfie in 33 AD, When God's Glory Brightened my Tomb and My Resurrection was Imprinted on to my Burial Cloth. There's Nothing New Under The Sun."
Genuine or not, it has no importance whatsoever to those who have faith according to God. (John 20:29) Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed!
If you read the paper and its follow up in mdpi, the authors acknowledge the fact that the shroud needed to be stored in specific temperature and humidity conditions, and in the follow up state that the current conditions of the shrouds storage are not adequate as described in their previous study. When considering that, and the fire, doubting waxs seems reasonable to me.
The face part of the wrappung was seperate from the body according to Johns gospel. The only way the shroud can be authentic is if there were mutiple wrappings.
@AK5of8 ah ok interesting. This shroud of turin thing gets more interesting and more interesting. Would I like it to be the cloth Jesus waa wrapped in? Yes do I have doubts yes. Either way I believe he rose.
It should be noted that face wrappings didn't touch the face, they instead wrapped around the the top of the head to the jaw so as to keep the mouth closed.
I saw a report years ago. The scientists and artists that compiled the report felt this was an negative image of Leonardo de Vinci. They theorized this would have been the first photo negative in history. They went on to say he would have use magnified sun light through a controlled opening in the ceiling.This would be reflected from mirrors onto the cloth which would have been coated in soot black. Allowing his reflection to be burned onto the cloth. This is why the image on the cloth is close to seven feet long due to the in accurate focus problem he would have had due to the distance of the mirrors from his body. I haven’t looked for this info on the internet. I may have some facts wrong . Folks can look for themselves. I’m sure if you look for it , it can be found. Leonardo invented, designed, and created so many different devices. Sometimes, as this may have been, he would become bored and move on to another project. Irregardless , whether Jesus or Leonardo, if you have true faith it doesn’t matter. I hope all have a happy and healthy day. Cheers!!
@@TboneWTF Because they can not stand Jesus being named. Some foolish friends of mine not so long ago tried to interact with "ghosts" (usually ghosts are just demons). They sat in a dark room with EMF meter and spirit box in a building that was an old nursery for elderly people. The EMF was quite until I quickly came in to bless them and the room in the name of Jesus, then it started going nuts.
The way the carbon dating was done originally was brutal. The Church is under no obligation to damage the Shroud again for another carbon test. Besides, faith is not based on the scientific testing of one (albeit phenomenal) artifact. All of the science (except the original carbon dating) points to it being the burial shroud of Jesus. But it is not the Church's job to prove it one way or the other. As with Marian apparitions, it is up to you if you believe it to be authentic or not, however you are under no obligation to do so, even if the apparition has been officially approved by the Church. Faith can indeed begin with an artifact like the Shroud, or the tilma of Guadalupe, but true faith goes so much deeper. 🙏🏻❤️✝️
Carbon dating from 3 separate laboratories ALL put the date of the shroud fabric in the 13th century! LONG after JC was supposedly alive. The shroud has nothing to do with JC.
Psalm 22:14 KJV - I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. Funny how a Psalm written 2800 years ago explains the illusion of one arm linger than the other ....a dislocated shoulder and to say thar it's not explainable by a person hanging on a cross is a ridiculous straight out lie ....you ever seen a person that hung themselves, close to the ground they kick a chair out ...eventually there neck is dislocated and stretches so the legs touch the ground...its compelling how you all strain at a gnat of truth but swallow a whale of lies .... the evidence of the shroud is overwhelming.
A few years ago I watched a special on the shroud of Turin. And one of the comments made was the carbon dating done was accidentally on one of the repaired parts of the shroud. That's the reason for the dating being later. They couldn't get permission to take another sample of the older original part of the shroud. There's been more than a few repairs done in antiquity.
Im suffering a lot due to the claims on reincarnation. Children with past life memories. they find historical records of these people and even end up having birthmarks matching up with the persons death. These things confirm what mediums say their spirit guides and dead tell them about reincarnation. I want to come back to Jesus so bad but I can’t shake these things. I watched Jimmy akin on the issue but the doubt persists. Please pray for me
It’s probably earthbound souls (ghosts) who want to live or draw attention to their past lives through the living, and children are blank slates. Reincarnation is a nice fantasy for some of the dead who haven’t yet departed to hell.
There's no such thing as reincarnation. Karma is made up nonsense. An unthinking universe doesn't care what "lessons" you need to learn before you could reach some state of "nirvana". It's all unbelievable nonsense that doesn't pass the test of logic and reason.
I’ve had the same thoughts and questions with regard to this issue. In the end my feeling on it is that there is no point dwelling on it. If God wants to send a soul back to earth to live again who are we to say he can’t. Maybe there are millions of us who were here before and came back for another experience. I’ve never really seen any Christian teaching that says this couldn’t happen.
The scientists are trying to disprove the shroud, but they can't explain how the image was formed.... Jesus didn't need to be proven, He just asks us to believe....
„Perhaps this is why people are tirelessly searching for evidence as to why the shroud, which is kept in its own chapel in Turin Cathedral, must be fake or genuine after all. Elio Quiroga Rodríguez from the Universidad del Atlántico Medio in Las Palmas has now joined this illustrious group. The director and lecturer in film studies noticed an anatomical anomaly in the body portrait - although he was not the first to make this observation. In any case, in a very short study in the specialist journal "Archaeometry", he describes that the forearms and hands of the man on the relic are of different lengths - more precisely, the left hand and left forearm are depicted as unnaturally long. According to Quiroga Rodríguez, the pubic area of the supposed Jesus was to be covered by hand so that the Savior would not appear naked. The portrait is therefore subject to the conventions of medieval Christian art and does not depict a real human body. As previous studies have already shown, the elongated extremity cannot be linked to crucifixion. The Spanish film lecturer also writes that a body cannot be so severely deformed by hanging on the cross. Rather, the image follows the artistic convention of never showing Jesus completely naked. "This deliberate artistic decision emphasizes the symbolic nature of the Shroud and draws the viewer's attention to the spiritual meaning of the crucified Christ rather than his physical form," says Quiroga Rodríguez. Apparently, a hitherto unknown medieval painter captured the image on the shroud.“
Interesting although really ends up in the same place by claiming it is the only work by an unknown medieval artist whose techniques could not have been replicated by the methods available at that time (perhaps not even today). Or it is a miraculous relic. It can only be the former if you are predisposed to a naturalist explanation. It could be either if you are predisposed to be open to the possibility of a miracle.
Sorry buddy, but paint will be deeper than 2 threads worth. The arm could have been pulled from the socket. "Unnaturally long" is because shadows were discovered - which means that Christ was MOVING during instant flash. Their analysis is wrong.
What you are failing to mention, is that the images are partially an x-ray view of the bones which makes the fingers appear to be elongated. Also, there is no paint on the fabric.
In 1543, John Calvin, in his book Treatise on Relics, explained the reason why the Shroud cannot be genuine:[51] In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned. John 20:7 The cloth that had been around Jesus' head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths.
And now, neo atheists militants? Where is the goddess science to help you now? They will ask for help for Lawrence Krauss, Neil Tyson Degrasse, Bill Maher or Matthew Dulahamy ??😂😂😂
The only people who want to claim the shroud is of uniimpotance would be catholic hating Protestants. Let's be real here. If we truly have the authentic burial cloth of Jesus, this would be the greatest archeological discovery that also authenticates the gospels and our faith in Christ.
@@luisbarbosa8136 I don't know why he said that, but as a Catholic somehow I feel the same vibe in conversation I had with Protestants these couple of days about the shroud.
This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. The shroud fell into their hands and they kept it safe. This has nothing to do with scripture. If this is God's image which I think it is. This has nothing to do with are faith, as Jesus said to Thomas . You have seen but blessed that did not see and believe.
And it matches the Original Divine Mercy image! Not the Polish version, but the one in Vilnius Lithuania, painted by Eugeniusz Kazimirowski. And it is THE image that St Faustina saw and asked him to paint! Daniel diSilva talks more on this, one can check that out. Jesus, I trust in You! Amen!!!❤️🔥
If you believe the shroud is real, then you must not trust the gospels. The gospel clearly says Jesus had a face cloth that was a part from the body cloth.
The face cloth would have been used to transport the body from the cross to the tomb, where they cleaned the body. They would have removed the face cloth and put it aside then place coins over the eyes and wrap him in the shroud. This matches the physical evidence and the scriptures
@@dat8835 there is absolutely no historic support for coins being placed at the eyes in this time. In Palestine. You cannot show me one body ever recovered showing that this was a practice during this time.
Excellent discussion. The “Jay Leno” of Christendom. 😂 In all seriousness, let’s all buy his book to promote the salvation of souls. Jesus’ Shroud is an excellent conversation starter for unsaved family and friends who cling to ‘scientific rationalism.’
Whaddo You Meme?? has also made a recent interesting video discussing the Shroud titled "Okay, Maybe I was Wrong" that I recommend watching where he's quite agnostic about its authenticity which I think is the same for Cam.
The threedimensional features of the image might be the effect of a radiant energy of great potency and unknown origin. No medieval artist or scientist would have been able to make such an artifact. This consideration alone should have called wrong the radiocarbon dating. But there is also the % of vanillin within the linen fibers which desappears in very old fabrics (as is the case for the Shroud) whereas is still present in more recent ones. And then the pollens, and the very particular linen, and so on... We have the image of Jesus and this is a great sign for all of us, believers or not.
It is "the silent witness", a comfort for believers (who don't need it to believe), and a mistery for non believers. The image is a mistery in the mistery: why a three dimensional photographic negative? Overall, why not a positive one? No medieval genius could have make such a unique artifact; and by what means and technology?
I believe it and it is amazing. I also would not be shocked if Leonardo da Vinci could pull off something like this. He was brilliant and much before his time and probably before our times as well! I heard a documentary once that spoke about Leonardo spending a long time hidden away at the Vatican working on something important for them. I believe in our Lord. Bless us all.
Cameron: I want to touch base about the assumptions with temperature and humidity… (Jump cut) Cameron: what are your thoughts on the whole carbon dating fiasco? So bizarre to me that people don’t wanna actually figure out the truth.
As Christians we go by faith, not by sight.. I think that’s what he meant by not being as important as a relic because as Christians we do not worship any image that is man-made.. I’m not saying to worship the shroud, but it is definitely not man-made. What is the shroud like the Bible has key information about our life and futures..
It is the most beautiful story we could ever hope to hear. He defeated death and the grave all because he loves us... WOW thank you Jesus 🥹🙏🤍
Lucky us then...
@@LeSudiste-m2q blessed are we
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😛
I agree that it is a compelling piece of fiction and will remain as ficiton until the evidence provided for it is equal to the task. So far it falls short.
@@Dr88Black ISRAEL is to restored - Daniel 12. After the daily sacrifice is interrupted. 602BC, Babylon first invades, Daniel is told to skip forward 1290 moedim, a yearly festival. - this takes us to year 688AD. Daniel will see an abomination in God's holy place, the temple site. what is going on? the Muslims are building a mosque, at Abraham's Rock. the abomination that makes desolate is being built. the Muslims invaded in 636, Muhammad is dead 50 years. they build a mosque and say Muhammad rose from there to heaven? nice trick, he's dead 50 years. The mosque is dated by Muslims. commissioned in 685, building starts in 688AD, ends in 691. - so Daniel now is told to wait 1335 days-years and a blessing will occur. what sort of blessing in 2023-24?
The other date is given 1260 years. we add 1260 to 688AD. Israel is created in 1948.
so Daniel gave you three year counts 1260-1290-1335.
if he is fake? he would give dates that have no relevance. 1200, 1400, 1500, and nothing happens. if he is out by ten years? if he says 1280. then it does not match with the dome. if he says 1400 instead of 1260, Israel's rebirth would be missed.
He has only three NUMBERS. its like a punch card designed for pins. if the holes do not match the pins spacing it will not hang up.
its four points in time. THREE EVENTS LINE UP.
The last event is to happen in 2024.
i suspect the rapture. at LIBRA day one. what you call HALLOWEEN.
it might be three weeks away? maybe a year. but i have high confidence in halloween. its not a pagan holiday to me, its Feast of Trumpets. LIBRA ONE.
Blessed is he who has not seen yet still believes.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😛
Those people are called 'fools'. Those who invented religion are fools. Those who promote it are charlatans and those who believe it are weak and silly.
@@michaelmulholland927 more blessed is he who sees by the light of faith and then believes by way of reason.
Jesus did the first ever selfie.
How does this not have a million thumbs up?
@@pewpawsbecause it only has 4500 views
@@Sirach144😆
@@Sirach144 I snipped it and put it on my facebook.
@@pewpaws but do you have 1 million followers on Facebook?
It seems to me that God left us a literal photograph of Jesus at the instant of Resurrection and, if true, that is the most amazing discovery of human history. Nothing else comes close.
Not if
It is real
All it proves is that the cloth is old! Ageing occurs also due to mishandling so the age could be way out. The image is wrong anyway (arm length) which suggests art and even if could be dated to 1st century no proof it is Jesus so a long long way to go!
@@RUGRAF-rf8fi I assume that you meant to say "isn't"?
Or it's just a painting.
Actually, it's just a painting.
@@ploppysonofploppy6066 Actually no. That's sort of one of the first things that gets disproven. Did you even watch the video?
It's not just a photograph. It's a photo negative. Photography with film produces a negative image which has to be rendered positive in another step of developing the photo. The Shroud image is a photo negative from before the age of photography. There are no examples of photo negative images in art before the age of photography. The Shroud is obviously the burial cloth of Christ.
Experimentations in photography took place over the centuries. Early experimentations we're done by drilling a hole in a wall and letting the light reflect refract through it that an artist could get a rough sketch. Artist also had other simple instruments that would take a image of a live person then refracted onto a canvas trace sketch it, then would later be filled in with paints producing a life-size image of the person . Throughout the years they started treating pieces of cloth canvases with Solutions and chemicals that would speed up the image time.
@@fordsrestorations970 go to school. American education is a scandal. I don't waste my time on people who jump in with nonsense. Show me your sources for any photographic process from the 1st Century, or any time before the 1800s. Find an example of photonegative art from before the age of photography. You can't argue from supposition or speculation. You're making a truth claim. You need evidence.
In the Roman Empire?
@@fordsrestorations970phahaha😂😂😂 u mean 7 hundred years ago😂😂 in what reality are u livin?!
@@valerieprice1745 if you ever heard of the Antique Business , then you will know that you can still buy these 2000 year old burial Strouds today , in fact you can buy 2 , 3 , 4,000 year old swords Shields, helmets, leather goods , coins, bowls, vases, etc.
etc. As we all studied in the 5th and 6th grade that Leonardo was a master Forger , he would use actual artifacts from ancient days and then recreate them into the piece that he desired. As you know that he earned most of his money from selling forgeries to Catholic churches throughout Europe and the Middle East.
Our great King and Lord Jesus Christ
is as real as we humans are breathing!
Lord Jesus Christ your people love you
dearly and are awaiting your glorious
return. We love you Lord!! ❤🙏✌❤
No gods. There is no scientific evidence Jeebus existed. They lie hard.
2000 years and counting! But worry not, faithful believers - daddy is coming back with the milk any minute now.
@@FrikInCasualMode 🤭🤥
@FrikInCasualMode
he's 720,000 days late already....
but "The end times are upon us".
@@FrikInCasualMode The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a forgery. The Christian Church is grasping at straws to prove that their god is not imaginary like all the other gods people worship.
To those who believe no proof is necessary; to those who don’t believe, no proof is sufficient…
There are those in the middle who still need a shove, St Thomas for instance
Yeah, cognitive dissonance.
A believer in 'the Way' only instruction is to tell the Gospel - not to argue with non believers. They have heard and choose not to believe- that's the choice everyone has to make...acceptance or rejection. Jesus said some wouldn't believe even if someone returned from the dead. As for me and my house we will honor the Triune God of the Bible!
Amen
Ain't that the truth.
What is extremely interesting is that with the way the image is on the cloth they were able to scan it and then make a 3D model of it.
The only religion that have the real face of their God.
SO?
@@LeSudiste-m2q so the only real god
Of god
@@LeSudiste-m2q ya, big whoop, right? just a photograph of the Creator of the universe. it's not like the Blessed Sandals of Muhammad or anything.
@@LeSudiste-m2q you still don’t believe in god just look what he left for us
I believe. ❤ I brushed this off for so many years, and then, I saw a scientific documentary about the Shroud. Every inch of doubt in my mind disappeared. I just believed. That was two years ago.
You made an excellent point here that I've made before. If we assume the Shroud was created in the 14th century, then the artist would have been "flying blind" so to speak. The Shroud image could not really be fully seen until the invention of photo negativity with contrast enhancement 600+ years later, so the putative artist would've had to have somehow made an image with extreme details that *he himself couldn't even see*, using some sort of technology that is unknown and cannot be replicated to this day, for people hundreds of years later to find!
In 1543, John Calvin, in his book Treatise on Relics, explained the reason why the Shroud cannot be genuine:[51]
In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned.
John 20:7
The cloth that had been around Jesus' head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths.
@@DrMontagueMS Co Pilot gives the counter argument to this if you type “how do people believing shroud of Turin to be true answer to John Calvin's statement why it can't be in 1543 in the book treatise on relics?”
@@DrMontaguethere is also too much scientific evidence now that proves it to be real, containing blood not paint, and the image being multi layered so it could not be predicted by the viewing equipment that was not available at that time.
@@stevenbeynon2781 Then the Gospels are wrong!
What the most fascinating fact about the shroud is that it's a series of superimposed images indicating MOVEMENT! Why this fact is not being mentioned is beyond me.
It's not being mentioned because it's pointing in the obvious direction that it's a medieval fake created by live moving French scammers
Yes it not only predates negative photography, but holography, and motion capture technology! Simply amazing beyond words. In modern pop culture media, the holographic image of Michael York in LOGAN'S RUN (1976) is an example of the type of holographic imagery in the Shroud.
its been dated to the 13th century by 3 universities in Switzerland the US and the UK....the material wasn't even around at the time of jesus
Blood type on Shroud of Turin: AB
Blood type on Sudarium of Oviedo: AB
Blood type on over 100 Eucharistic Miracles: AB
Wow.
Blood type AB+ (AB positive) are referred to as universal recipients, I mean he receives all our sin on him.
Only about 4% of people have that type
I have AB too
And how ironic that it's a universal blood type!
Jesus is king!!!! 👑 amen amen amen !!! GOD IS GOOD ! Amen 🙏!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😛
Pleased to find this video. The Shroud becomes even more fascinating with every new development, and I’ve been particularly curious to learn more details on this new test.
"Folding the cloth was a cultural sign that the user intended to return. It was especially used at meals to indicate to the servants that the diner was not finished. Jesus was indicating that He would come again to Earth."
In 1543, John Calvin, in his book Treatise on Relics, explained the reason why the Shroud cannot be genuine:[51]
In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned.
John 20:7
The cloth that had been around Jesus' head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths.
@@DrMontague by analogy, I don't know if this is J's actual shirt or just a Hot Topic item. I'm just down with the clown. If you get the ICP/Juggalo analogy.
If it's forgery, explain how it was forged.
The fact that it can not be duplicated, it's one of a kind; means it is real.
its been dated to the 13th century by 3 independent universities....all within 50 years of each other
What really has always nailed this down to being the authentic burial Shroud of Jesus of Nazareth and a physical artifact of the resurrection event is the nature of the image captured on the linen shroud - in terms of the physical science involved.
It is a photograph negative image as caused by a electromagnetic energetic source. This is established by fact there is no pigment or dye responsible for the image but instead the very fibers of the linen cloth got altered at the molecular level by the radiating source of energy. And only top most fibers in direct linear line-of-sight with the radiating source are so altered. The fibers at underlying layers are not so altered. If there were any other manner of cause of this image - paint pigment, dye, application of chemical substance, then there would have been bleed through that would have affected the underlying fibers. Only a radiating energy source directed at the linen shroud would cause an impact only on the top most fibers.
Now photo sensitive materials were discovered by humanity in the early 1800s and thus the technology of photography was born. However, linen is not the least bit photo sensitive. Consequently, it requires an extraordinary energy source in order to generate a photograph negative on linen cloth. But the catch is that if such a powerful radiating source persisted for too long a period of time, then it would cause the incineration of the linen cloth material. Clearly this mechanism - per the negative image captured on the Shroud - was not attended by any incineration of the the linen fibers.
Consequently the time pulse duration of the energy source had to be both extremely powerful, at an appropriate frequency to best register on the material of linen fibers, and of a very minute duration of time so as not to combust the Shroud. It had to be extremely finely tuned or balanced in respect to these three factors.
Where else have we seen such extreme fine tuning or balancing practically defying human comprehension? Well, that is the very enigma of our Universe as there are many science books that have been written on the subject matter of the fine tuning of the physical constants and other physical law relationships that enable our Universe to exist and operate.
There are a number of scientist that have also come to see this fine tuning of our Universe as a kind of signature of God. The fine tuning of the Shroud of Turin is right there in this same camp of ultra extreme, mind boggling fine tuning, i.e., is a signature of God.
Humanity today, 700 years ago, or 2000 years ago does not possess the ability to create a photographic negative image as like exist on the linen fiber material of the Shroud of Turin. That is just the plain reality of the extent of humanity's technological prowess. Today we could replicate the process on a very small scale, but not on the scale of the size of the Shroud. Our technology would not be able to produce the sufficient energy level nor time such a radiating energy burst with the required fine tuning balance.
The skeptics that hand wave this all away are not very intelligent people (to say the least) and/or are acutely dishonest with the facts of the matter.
Why were there have to be bleed thru? Pigment/paint could just lay on top.
@@1974jrod there is no paint pigmentation - the affected linen fibers have been examined under high magnification. Skeptics need to keep in mind that this is the most scientifically studied historical object on the planet - since the 80s this manner of scientific scrutiny has not let up. It’s not like some high schooler took out a magnifying glass to peer over it. The layer of affected fibers is a few nanometers - even using modern lasers it would be challenging to duplicate the delivery of energy to impact to the very surface manner (but that also brings in the technical difficulty of delivering sufficient energy but of short enough duration so as to not incinerate the fibers - and then also the impossibility in that sufficient energy could not be amassed and delivered to create an image the size as on the Shroud, that being way beyond technical ability).
But there is also a ridiculousness factor that attends every would-be Shroud explanation. As in how would a person 700 years ago or even today know how to create a photographic image on the Shroud that is a photographic negative in that when it is actually photographed it then reveals far greater detail in the photo negative then is apparent in the actual image? Effectively all the great detail were used to being shown only emerges through this method of being photographed, otherwise all that extraordinary detail is optically invisible to the human eye. So all these “explanations” put out by skeptics are simply utterly ridiculous because these people just deal in superficiality, pay no attention to the actual scientific facts because they want to ignore the reality of the import of the Shroud. They can’t psychologically handle the actual reality of the Shroud. But clearly that is their personal problem - that they lack inner strength of mind to deal with this reality as it actually is.
@@TheSulross the shroud never covered anyone. 100 percent. You can tell by looking at it.
@@1974jrod that is truly the most asinine remark anyone anywhere has made about the Shroud. Please, if going to try and be a critic of the Shroud, at least have a minimum of two neurons to rub together.
So one thing going on in these computer image recreations, like this latest image using AI processing assist, is that distortions in the photo negative from photos taken of the Shroud have to be corrected per topographical induced distortions. These distortions exist because the Shroud was draped over a human body.
So no human created artwork is able to fake the effect of embedded topographical distortion. But when the Shroud image is scanned with a device used in creating topographical maps from aerial photographs, it provides the detail information that makes it possible to restore the image to proper contour, which yields a much more natural human looking countenance. So the facial features that appear somewhat mushed, the overly broad nose, etc, that becomes trued up and we get a much higher fidelity image reproduction. All because the Shroud was enveloping a human body at the time the image imprint took place and therefore yields back actual topographical information that can be used to true the image.
This is the hard science of the Shroud - the detractors of the Shroud - with their jaw dropping asinine remarks - are the equivalent of monkeys at the zoo flinging their feces at human on lookers.
@@TheSulross hard science? Lol. You literally can look at the thing and tell it never covered anyone. Lol
At this point, people better start bringing up the shroud when debating the resurrection, as it is a solid source of further evidence for the resurrection of Christ.
(Edit: I’m not saying the shroud is 100% authentic or trustworthy, but the majority of evidence (Not including the outdated and poorly performed 1988 carbon dating study) points to it likely being authentic, with Experts giving it around 70% authenticity)
Do an experiment and lay on your bed with your shoulders and arms to your side. Now try to cover your genitals like the shroud. Sorry, but the proportions just don’t work.
Comical in the extreme. First of all this is still a maybe. Second even if it is from the time of christ it proves nothing in regards to where it came from specifically and is meaningless in regards to any resurrection
I don't think so. It may be evidence of the age, not someone coming back from the dead.
@caseyo2880 Yes, I would imagine that this 'solid source of evidence' is going to be responsible for huge swathes of people (especially those who are scientifically minded ) suddenly converting to Christianity.
@@caseyo2880 why do you think the gospels did not tell the truth about their being a separate face cloth? Are you saying that the gospel account of the burial is in accurate?
The shroud has been left for the purpose of proving Jesus' ressurection.
No one to this day or the most advanced technology can replicate that image!
Jesus ressurected, and He will come back!
How on earth does it "prove Jesus' ressurection"? How do you know that the guy is the image isn't just, well, dead? Even if we assume it a real image of a real man, how do you know WHICH SPECIFIC man it is? How do yoou know it's Jesus of Nazareth?
The image shows marks on the head consistent to where piercings were made there also. The Romans crucified many but never did they pierce the head as well as the hands and feet. But to mock Jesus as King of the Jews they placed a “crown “ of thorns on his head… this single difference is suggestive that surely this could be the cloth that covered Jesus’ body when it was taken down from the cross..
@@sandrablackburn5739 How, exactly, do you know that?
Thanks be to God; and those pious and faithful Catholics who preserved this for 2000 years.
@@Gcock
700
Carbon dating puts the shroud fabric from the 13th century.
@@manamanathegreat4986700?? Huh? Uhhhh....No. 2000. Just like he said.
@@ricksmusicworld711
If you say so.
Is that the same Catholics that investigated it and declared it a "clever forgery"?
Even as child when the carbon dating was declared, I always remember the self satisfied body language of those three men on the platform.
Demons all .. 👈
They didn’t follow the protocol. On purpose to get the results they wanted or because they were recklessly so prideful they didn’t see how using one sample was going to eventually result in people discarding them as serious scientists.
Those smug and hateful men were so proud to deny Jesus Christ and they thought they were so smart. I saw their picture and I immediately thought what a pack of stupid fools whose arrogance is clearly evident in this picture. When they died I bet they were shocked when they met Jesus and when Jesus denied them.
The fact that so many scholars studied it and so many evidences point to "yes" believe it is image of Jesus. AMEN
Absolutely sharing with my class this semester ❤ Thanks
This is so exciting, I laugh with joy just hearing the interview. My faith is not grounded on artifacts but it´s like a cherry on top.
As a Christian, it makes sense to me that the church would have kept & preserved this artifact of Jesus' resurrection, considering that there was no corpse. The negative image also contains movement (like a video) & therefore appears somewhat distorted. This supports the idea that there was a resurrection. Jesus moved as He came back to life and powerfully transformed into His new supernatural body while simultateously exiting through the shroud.
Unrelated to this video but any plans to make an update video on Sister Wilhelmina? The diocesan investigation just concluded and said "The body of Sister Wilhelmina Lancaster does not appear to have experienced the decomposition that would have normally been expected under such previous burial conditions”. Apparently she was in a wooden casket which had broken and had water on top of it. And she was in the ground for four years before being exhumed. Would be interesting to hear an experts opinion on this.
This is incredible. Even believers scared to admit that it's an authentic shroud of our Lord Jesus Christ. I have seen it everywhere, believers try to debunk it. Can you imagine that?
As a believer I don’t want to debunk it, I just don’t want to put a face to Jesus that isn’t the real thing. For example I love the theatrical and TV depictions of Jesus, but I don’t imagine that he looks exactly like any of them. This would be different because it would be of his actual face. That would seem too good to be true, so the evidence would have to be pretty indisputable. Not 100%, but with the albeit questionable carbon dating, I’m not ready to accept it as authentic,
until they do a proper carbon dating. At that point I would be more inclined to believe it.
There is no obligation for a Christian to accept the divinity or providence of relics; those are personal expressions of faith.
“I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.”
I personally also subscribe to the next part about Catholicism, buuut I think as long as you’ve got the rest under your belt, you’re solid.
I know right. I was arguing with a guy last night about that. He kept saying I don't worship a cloth I worship the lord ..And that's good no one is expecting you to worship the cloth. But why can't you appreciate the fact that there is evidence of the foundation of that which we believe. It's a blessing . The lord saw to it that this cloth survived all this time for a reason. There are those that need something like this in order to help them believe. So if that's so be happy and thankful there is something there that shows people evidence of the whole foundation of the religion. Paul said if Jesus didn't die on the cross and wasn't resurrected by God . Then it's all for nothing . There are enough non believers talking against it without believers belittling it. If it helps you to believe in Jesus then it's a true blessing and should be accepted by believers with open arms. Thomas you are blessed bcuz you have seen and believed . But I say to you blessed are they who have not seen and yet have believed. Blessed to have seen and blessed not to have seen. Believing is the point. Whatever helps you to believe is a blessing that carries priceless value.
@@joetunonyou’re in denial
Debunk it because it's fake. Fraud is unbecoming of the Lord
The ORIGINAL carbon dating was wrong because the sample takin was done on a part of the shroud that was repaired in the Middle Ages by nuns because that section had been scorched in a fire. That's why the carbon date showed a date from the Middle ages, it matched the date of the fire.
That conspiracy was debunked. Keep up.
The "invisible reweaving theory"
To think the shroud was in a fire in a church and survive is a miracle in it's self. I guess the devil wanted it gone, but no way was God letting that happen. I believe in Jesus and Love my Jesus for all of my life. One day I will be with Him in Heaven. ✝❤🔥
Isn't this a re-upload of the previous video? Anyway, I appreciate the info. I used to not believe that the shroud was actually authentic but now I'm convinced that it is
What a GREAT INTERVIEW! Thank You! Russ is so masterful in his knowledge about the Shroud! Truly brilliant!
The Catholic Church is very restrictive on what tests can be done on the shroud-so it leads to creative testing methods that have actually caused breakthroughs in other fields of archaeology- because they want to preserve the artifact
@northernfarmer98 because it was in their possession for hundreds if not a thousand years or more- while it is fascinating and a powerful witness if real as Christians we don’t need this to support our belief.
@northernfarmer98Because it's the same church Jesus Christ founded in 33 AD
@northernfarmer98 You ignore facts, history and misunderstand scripture if you don’t recognise the Catholic Church as the one and only church Jesus Christ established in 33AD.
@northernfarmer98 Christianity isn't just about following rules, and yet drunkards, slanderers etc will not inherit the kingdom. Following rules is part of what makes up the Christian lifestyle.
Belonging in the exact institution Jesus explicitly started by making His disciple follow a hierarchy is too a part of christianity.
You follow this channel, Cameron is a convert to catholicism so you should extend more charity to this, if you respect his judgement.
@northernfarmer98"I am the vine, you are the branches." One Church (one vine) cannot be divided into 40,000 denominations (40,000 vines) which disagree with each other (branches belong to the same plant, not separate plants unto themselves). One mustard seed grows into one tree, not 40,000 trees. That is what it means to have One Mystical Body.
That’s one of your Best Episodes, Cameron.
Sean McDowell is really a great apologist and has one of the best podcasts here on YT - he’s one of the people who says ‘Who Cares’ if the Shroud is Authentic - ‘So What?’ - Russ Breault explains here perfectly why that’s such a totally ridiculous position to take.
What's happening in the media right now is quite intriguing. I've been aware of this dating for two years because I've been following the research of that scientist on the Manoppello image. Back in 1988, when the carbon dating was done, it made headlines worldwide. However, the recent dating has received far less attention and has been notably downplayed. Now it is changing since the media got their interest ... wonder why now ...
Media doesn't matter. How your heart flitters does. If your heart tells you it's true, who cares what it's scoffers say???? 👍
Because this study is embarrassing...
@@PercyTinglishTo be expected.🙄
@@PercyTinglish
"Dating from 1988 was embarrassing. Double-check what the Chi-square test is and why it failed.
I’m 97% convinced it’s truly Christ in the shroud image
What proof do you got?
@@Metanoia_Magna don’t worry about it
@@Metanoia_Magna Princ of piece. It's painting by girl who saw many beautiful visions and Jesus himself. So she's eyewitness there's many more people and toddler who saw Him. Not nesseraly face always.
@@jovanarosic3606 What about all those people who saw Him but looked different?
@@Metanoia_Magna I don't see a huge problem. Hair chould be cut of for example. Colour of eyes chould be mixed because when people see Jesus they are in deep shock. It's hard to describe bone structure and face shape. Most people describing same feel when meeting him. And pretty similar visuals like colours of light or visual of blue fire
What doesn't add up yet, is they keep saying "if" the shroud was kept at relatively normal conditions and temperatures then this new aging comparison is valid. BUT we know the shroud was in A FIRE. SO isn't that an obvious temperature degradation thing that could lead this newer evidence astray?
READ THE EVIDENCE YOURSELF. Follow your heart. If it flitters when you see the Shroud, your OWN BODY is telling you it's real. Stop doubting.
They will brush over that with confirmation bias
Amazing!!! For some reason the minute I saw a picture of His face I had no doubt. But I always doubted the paintings.
🙏🏼❤️
I always think its amazing that Jesus is reconised in every painting of him , no matter how different . Sometimes the apostles would be depicted like Jesus , yet we know they are not Jesus .
There is a spanish study by the guys studying the Sudarium of Oviedo and The Shroud that trace the first images of Jesús and should that they were based on the Shroud but that was known as the Image of Edesa and then the Mandillion, its facinating...
He is the living God we will see him at the right hand of power
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😛
@@CowboyPants-h5p hahaha 😂 😂 😂 look at that guy on top what is he thinking Quoting from a religious text in a religious comment section so stupid 🤔😏
@@CowboyPants-h5p hahaha 😂 what is that guy at the top thinking Quoting from a religious text in a religious comment section 🙄😏🤔
My understanding is the sample was taken from a corner that was repaired by the Franciscan Poor Clares nuns in the 1300 hundreds. They do know that there was a repair. Please speak about this.
Look at Barry Shwortz, he covered everything.
I think that was done on purpose. The Vatican knows and had a good laugh.
That was debunked.
The sample that the carbon dated was taken from repair that was made after the fire. It wasn't taken from the shroud.
We don't do carbon dating anymore because we were screwed over the first time and we don't like cutting into the actual burial shroud of our Lord and Savior.
screwed over?:D You mean when carbon dating method calculated the age to be exactly the same as first historical mentions about the shroud, that randomly appeared in France out of nowhere?
How anyone can have such a strong wishful thinking to not see the obvious scam behind this with given evidence, is a mystery to me...
if this _is_ the Burial Shroud of Jesus Christ, that means we're looking at an actual photographic/x-ray-graphic image of our Lord and Savior, and it serves as physical proof of the Resurrection itself! how anyone could _not_ be absolutely mesmerized by its very existence is beyond me!
I'm an atheist. I've been critical of certain videos on this channel and others, especially when you feature cagey exorcists who make wild claims, and then offer lame excuses for why they can't show evidence.
I think the Shroud of Turin is fascinating. The image so far defies attempts at natural explanation, and I'm very, very interested to see corroborating evidence for the revised date.
I'm not a "committed atheist" (whatever that even means). I'm an atheist by default because religious arguments suck. The Shroud is the first religious thing in my adult life that I've looked at and thought, "Hmm, that might be compelling."
Russ Breault is right. If the Shroud is authentic, it speaks to the greatest story ever told, and the greatest event in human history. I don't know why the whole of the Christian world isn't clamoring nonstop for more tests. 🤷♂
Interesting comment. I can feel Christ is knocking at the door to your heart. Open that door and you will be surprised about the power of the holy spirit and the peace it brings. Amen 💖
Because it isn’t necessary. You can’t hinge the entire faith on one single object. Sure I think if it’s proven real it adds more evidence to the case, however from my view there exists enough evidence to reasonably believe in the Resurrection.
So it’s more like a cherry on the sundae.
The Church knows if they fully commit and 100% call this to be authentic and to be the shroud of Jesus and then it turns out false that could falsify the faith. The Church is very very carefully about what it determines to be true. There are many things we may believe that the church hasn’t infallibly taught like Limbo for example. One can agree or disagree with it.
I hope that makes sense.
@@catholicguy1073
Weak sauce, the Vatican knows it's real.
Find a good traditional priest and keep an open dialogue with him. The journey will be mind blowing.
Mhmm maybe for people who are still in doubt, but christians already believe and know :) so there's no need
Look up Barrie Schwortz. He was an image expert on the 78 research team. Great story teller. Sadly he just passed away a few months ago. They never determined what made the image.
I may have mentioned this before but we also have the Sudarium of Oviedo (separate face cloth) that has 120 blood stains that line up with the shroud that was carbon dated to 750AD or so. This also proves the carbon dating is wrong.
Really?
@@AndreLeBlonde1 I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. If so, do your homework.
@@jimmoore9490 yeah i haven't heard of it. I just Googled. I am speechless. Some people pointed out that there were two pieces of linen in the tomb in scriptures. Suggestiong that shroud can be real. So far it checks out. This is incredible. Thank you for writing this comment!
@@AndreLeBlonde1 Sorry if I got a little defensive. I deal with delusional atheists all of the time. There is one thing for sure about these artifacts and that is there is too much evidence. Only the very very creative delusional atheists can even come up with anything. But they will defend how we are related to jellyfish. I will say this also and that this blows my mind away that we have known about this supernatural 3d image since 1892 and I made 5000 postcards and when I hand them out only about 1 in 20 even knows what it is or has every heard about it.
@@AndreLeBlonde1 Man the AI bots are removing my posts again. Sorry I got defensive I deal with delusional atheists all of the time. But if this doesn't get removed, we have known about this image since 1892. I hand out shroud cards and 1 in 20 knows or has even heard of it.
Read the book the apostate by Mark Christian. Its an autobiography about a Muslim who looks so close at islam he finds it point to Christianity
@thatguyyouis: That's not surprising......Islam is a lot younger than Christianity so it probably would contain elements of the older religion. Most religions (including Christianity) are based on previous religions.
@@paganphil100nope, Christianity is PURELY BASED ON judaism. Our old testament is the hebrew bible. Christianity is the continuation of second temple judaism. No other religion has an impact on christianity in doctrine asides that. I get youre a pagan probably terribly biased against Christianity but learn to say the truth😅
Ray Rogers already proved the carbon dating was wrong. That the sample they took was from a corner that had been repaired in the middle ages
And they might have done that on purpose, because they supposedly took 3 samples, each sent to a different lab, but the 3 samples came from the same little patch.
@@wulfheort8021 💯
The evidence that the cloth is 2000 years old is not direct evidence that the Shroud is authentic. Skeptics will say that the so-called "artist" somehow obtained a very old cloth.
This new dating evidence must be used in conjunction with the Shroud's 1988 radiocarbon test which found way too much carbon fourteen for a 2000 year old relic. The question is, "How did all that extra carbon fourteen get into the cloth?"
One idea is that the 1988 sample was not a part of the original cloth. That idea is falsified on the grounds that the other relics of the crucifixion have also shown severely skewed radiocarbon readings.
Another hypothesis is that, when Jesus' body dematerialized, it did more that just imprint its image on the Shroud. It also caused a neutron flux which converted the nitrogen in the linen fibers into carbon fourteen. This idea is supported by the finding that the other relics of the crucifixion also have skewed radiocarbon dates, but less so than the Shroud as they were further away from the source of the neutron flux.
A spectrum analysis of a Shroud blood crust shows that its nitrogen is missing. Was that nitrogen converted into carbon fourteen by a neutron flux?
See: "Could an Anomaly in the Turin Shroud Blood Reopen the 1988 Radiocarbon Dating Result?" World Scientific News, Vol. 162, pp. 102-109.
Dead human bodies are not capable of causing a neutron flux. The evidence that Jesus' corpse was the source of such radiation is proof of a miraculous event.
Jesus lives! ♥️ and is Yahweh God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑
The sheer stupidity of the way samples were taken when performing the C14 dating back in 1988 makes me wonder if it was done intentionally in order to produce false results.
Textile experts have repeatedly confirmed that the 1988 Shroud sample was cut from the original cloth.
Dr Ray Rogers who was a member of the STURP team was a chemist who specialised in materials and the testing of. He verified before his death in a Peer reviewed paper that the piece of material used for Carbon dating was a patch sewn into the shroud as the patch contained cotton. Hence the cotton through the carbon date out
The content at CC has been appreciated as of late.
Cameron is one of the top interviewers on YT.
King Jesus lives long live King Jesus!!❤
Not sure if it was mentioned here but I remember reading an interesting report that found that the samples taken years ago for study were mistakenly taken from a repaired section of cloth. The repair was an invisible (to the eye) repair made by Nuns in medieval times.
The question is not, is the shroud real - the question is, is it Jesus.
Exactly. Just because it's blood, just because it's a blood type that matches other relics proves nothing. In fact, it proves it's possible lots of relics were faked to start a new religion, using the same blood.
@@glenwillson5073 it’s 100% match to the Gospel of John , it has 100% congruence with the sudarium of Oviedo which can be traced back to Christ . It has forensic evidence to place it in Jerusalem . The list is endless.
@@ChrisPyle Tell that to the scientists who examined and advocated the shroud . The website was created by them to prove its authenticity
@@Shamsi419 THANK YOU. IF THIS WAS TRIED IN A COURT OF LAW WHERE A PROPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE WAS NEEDED (100% IS IMPOSSIBLE)THERE COULD ONLY BE ONE VERDICT, AUTHENTIC.
@@Shamsi419 and they dated it to 50 AD. A little late don't you think?
I don't know how the traditional wrapping process went. What makes me wonder is if the body was wrapped from head to toe, then what was the need for a head piece? If a head piece was used according to the Bible, and the image only penetrated the surface of one side of the cloth, why did it not show on a head piece? If the head piece went over the main shroud, again why was the head piece used? Christ was wrapped with two pieces, one was for the head.
Literally the first selfie in history
We also need some independent secular verification of Fanti's dating methods to supply further proof of it's authenticity.
Doesn't the Bible say His head wrapping was separate?
NOT.
The translation is wrong!
It was NOT separate!
Jesus died on the cross. He covered his head out of grace.
Then with this handkerchief...
because according to Jewish tradition, his place is in the grave ----
Then they tied his chin with this piece of canvas!!!
This was the proof of the resurrection that he stayed there SEPARATELY - IN THE original place!!!
„Közösség által ellenőrizve” ikon
@@janoselter3743
Your opinion and your info source now have more authority than the Bible. WOW
BRAVO BRAVO
@@nonconformist4802 I am both science and the Bible. What would you like to know?
Yes. In John chapter 20, verse 7.
@@TheDejael Yes. But what do you want to know about the Gospel of John?
in a little more detail if possible!
When Selfies became viral, a woman in the 21st century goes, "look I have taken the First Selfie." Jesus- "I took the first Selfie in 33 AD, When God's Glory Brightened my Tomb and My Resurrection was Imprinted on to my Burial Cloth. There's Nothing New Under The Sun."
Genuine or not, it has no importance whatsoever to those who have faith according to God. (John 20:29) Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed!
If you read the paper and its follow up in mdpi, the authors acknowledge the fact that the shroud needed to be stored in specific temperature and humidity conditions, and in the follow up state that the current conditions of the shrouds storage are not adequate as described in their previous study. When considering that, and the fire, doubting waxs seems reasonable to me.
The image on the shroud looks suspiciously like Frank Zappa!
YEAH! It really does!
always need to be on guard against strong delusion in this day and age.
As interesting as this is to talk about, we have to all remember the words of Jesus " Blessed are those who have not seen and yet still believe."
@@Snow-Willow . I wonder how he feels about people doubting his image?
And yet, wasn't Thomas allowed to touch the wound in Jesus's side
To us the believers it’s not a mystery
The face part of the wrappung was seperate from the body according to Johns gospel. The only way the shroud can be authentic is if there were mutiple wrappings.
Research the Sudarium of Oviedo. There’s your face cloth.
@AK5of8 ah ok interesting. This shroud of turin thing gets more interesting and more interesting. Would I like it to be the cloth Jesus waa wrapped in? Yes do I have doubts yes. Either way I believe he rose.
It should be noted that face wrappings didn't touch the face, they instead wrapped around the the top of the head to the jaw so as to keep the mouth closed.
@@AK5of8What is your thought about the veil of manoppello
@@KingFisher06 this is the first I ever heard of it. Thank you!
I saw a report years ago. The scientists and artists that compiled the report felt this was an negative image of Leonardo de Vinci. They theorized this would have been the first photo negative in history. They went on to say he would have use magnified sun light through a controlled opening in the ceiling.This would be reflected from mirrors onto the cloth which would have been coated in soot black. Allowing his reflection to be burned onto the cloth.
This is why the image on the cloth is close to seven feet long due to the in accurate focus problem he would have had due to the distance of the mirrors from his body.
I haven’t looked for this info on the internet. I may have some facts wrong . Folks can look for themselves. I’m sure if you look for it , it can be found.
Leonardo invented, designed, and created so many different devices. Sometimes, as this may have been, he would become bored and move on to another project.
Irregardless , whether Jesus or Leonardo, if you have true faith it doesn’t matter.
I hope all have a happy and healthy day. Cheers!!
Demons often manifest when Jesus's name is mentioned
Really. How do you know this?
Don't you know it! Every time I mention Santa Clauses name, all the little elves manifest! Isn't that crazy!
@@TboneWTF Because they can not stand Jesus being named. Some foolish friends of mine not so long ago tried to interact with "ghosts" (usually ghosts are just demons). They sat in a dark room with EMF meter and spirit box in a building that was an old nursery for elderly people. The EMF was quite until I quickly came in to bless them and the room in the name of Jesus, then it started going nuts.
@@JustMe-mn5hk LOL. Every Easter a rabbit leaves chocolates for the children.
@@TboneWTF and how do you not know this?
The way the carbon dating was done originally was brutal. The Church is under no obligation to damage the Shroud again for another carbon test.
Besides, faith is not based on the scientific testing of one (albeit phenomenal) artifact. All of the science (except the original carbon dating) points to it being the burial shroud of Jesus. But it is not the Church's job to prove it one way or the other.
As with Marian apparitions, it is up to you if you believe it to be authentic or not, however you are under no obligation to do so, even if the apparition has been officially approved by the Church.
Faith can indeed begin with an artifact like the Shroud, or the tilma of Guadalupe, but true faith goes so much deeper. 🙏🏻❤️✝️
Carbon dating from 3 separate laboratories ALL put the date of the shroud fabric in the 13th century! LONG after JC was supposedly alive. The shroud has nothing to do with JC.
Psalm 22:14 KJV - I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Funny how a Psalm written 2800 years ago explains the illusion of one arm linger than the other ....a dislocated shoulder and to say thar it's not explainable by a person hanging on a cross is a ridiculous straight out lie ....you ever seen a person that hung themselves, close to the ground they kick a chair out ...eventually there neck is dislocated and stretches so the legs touch the ground...its compelling how you all strain at a gnat of truth but swallow a whale of lies .... the evidence of the shroud is overwhelming.
👏👏👏
A few years ago I watched a special on the shroud of Turin.
And one of the comments made was the carbon dating done was accidentally on one of the repaired parts of the shroud.
That's the reason for the dating being later.
They couldn't get permission to take another sample of the older original part of the shroud.
There's been more than a few repairs done in antiquity.
Im suffering a lot due to the claims on reincarnation. Children with past life memories. they find historical records of these people and even end up having birthmarks matching up with the persons death. These things confirm what mediums say their spirit guides and dead tell them about reincarnation. I want to come back to Jesus so bad but I can’t shake these things. I watched Jimmy akin on the issue but the doubt persists. Please pray for me
Children are very impressionable and demons have perfect memory.
It’s probably earthbound souls (ghosts) who want to live or draw attention to their past lives through the living, and children are blank slates. Reincarnation is a nice fantasy for some of the dead who haven’t yet departed to hell.
There's no such thing as reincarnation. Karma is made up nonsense. An unthinking universe doesn't care what "lessons" you need to learn before you could reach some state of "nirvana". It's all unbelievable nonsense that doesn't pass the test of logic and reason.
Demonic deceptions
I’ve had the same thoughts and questions with regard to this issue. In the end my feeling on it is that there is no point dwelling on it. If God wants to send a soul back to earth to live again who are we to say he can’t. Maybe there are millions of us who were here before and came back for another experience. I’ve never really seen any Christian teaching that says this couldn’t happen.
This was a fantastic episode ! Great guest. Clear detailed presentation. Next you need Fr Robert Spitzer. Thank you Cameron, excellent!
Corruption in every institution.
Specifics?
please go meet your god right now
@@ThisDonut Dont be a hater
Yes the science community has proven to have been corrupted especially since COVID
@catholicguy1073
So religion and apologetics is immune?
The scientists are trying to disprove the shroud, but they can't explain how the image was formed.... Jesus didn't need to be proven, He just asks us to believe....
„Perhaps this is why people are tirelessly searching for evidence as to why the shroud, which is kept in its own chapel in Turin Cathedral, must be fake or genuine after all. Elio Quiroga Rodríguez from the Universidad del Atlántico Medio in Las Palmas has now joined this illustrious group. The director and lecturer in film studies noticed an anatomical anomaly in the body portrait - although he was not the first to make this observation. In any case, in a very short study in the specialist journal "Archaeometry", he describes that the forearms and hands of the man on the relic are of different lengths - more precisely, the left hand and left forearm are depicted as unnaturally long. According to Quiroga Rodríguez, the pubic area of the supposed Jesus was to be covered by hand so that the Savior would not appear naked. The portrait is therefore subject to the conventions of medieval Christian art and does not depict a real human body.
As previous studies have already shown, the elongated extremity cannot be linked to crucifixion. The Spanish film lecturer also writes that a body cannot be so severely deformed by hanging on the cross. Rather, the image follows the artistic convention of never showing Jesus completely naked. "This deliberate artistic decision emphasizes the symbolic nature of the Shroud and draws the viewer's attention to the spiritual meaning of the crucified Christ rather than his physical form," says Quiroga Rodríguez. Apparently, a hitherto unknown medieval painter captured the image on the shroud.“
Interesting although really ends up in the same place by claiming it is the only work by an unknown medieval artist whose techniques could not have been replicated by the methods available at that time (perhaps not even today). Or it is a miraculous relic. It can only be the former if you are predisposed to a naturalist explanation. It could be either if you are predisposed to be open to the possibility of a miracle.
Sorry buddy, but paint will be deeper than 2 threads worth. The arm could have been pulled from the socket. "Unnaturally long" is because shadows were discovered - which means that Christ was MOVING during instant flash. Their analysis is wrong.
What you are failing to mention, is that the images are partially an x-ray view of the bones which makes the fingers appear to be elongated. Also, there is no paint on the fabric.
In 1543, John Calvin, in his book Treatise on Relics, explained the reason why the Shroud cannot be genuine:[51]
In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned.
John 20:7
The cloth that had been around Jesus' head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths.
@@DrMontague You are pretty slime. Ignorant, and blind. Recreate it or shut-it.
I did not know that Carl Fredricksen knew so much about the shroud
And now, neo atheists militants? Where is the goddess science to help you now? They will ask for help for Lawrence Krauss, Neil Tyson Degrasse, Bill Maher or Matthew Dulahamy ??😂😂😂
There is no goddess of science, science in service to God. These people worship themselves as Satan intended. Science belongs to God
Matt Dulahamy hahaha, I hope you misspelled his name on purpose.
¡Maravilloso análisis y explicación!
We've been talking about this since the 70's, and still nothing.
What do you mean "nothing"?
@@hijackbyejack1729 There's nothing to see here folks. Just move along.
It's the most studied artifact in the world
… that’s what your girlfriend said…
… “Ed talking…. But nothing happened… “
Great video!
The only people who want to claim the shroud is of uniimpotance would be catholic hating Protestants. Let's be real here.
If we truly have the authentic burial cloth of Jesus, this would be the greatest archeological discovery that also authenticates the gospels and our faith in Christ.
Can you explain please, why did you say "would bé catholic hating protestant?" Dont understand it
"THE ONLY PEOPLE? THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GOES EVEN FARTHER AND DENIES IT IS AUTHENTIC.
After 500 years there is still much bigotry towards Catholics from some Protestants (mostly the clerics and other Protestant professionals)
@@luisbarbosa8136 I don't know why he said that, but as a Catholic somehow I feel the same vibe in conversation I had with Protestants these couple of days about the shroud.
This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
The shroud fell into their hands and they kept it safe. This has nothing to do with scripture. If this is God's image which I think it is. This has nothing to do with are faith, as Jesus said to Thomas . You have seen but blessed that did not see and believe.
And it matches the Original Divine Mercy image! Not the Polish version, but the one in Vilnius Lithuania, painted by Eugeniusz Kazimirowski. And it is THE image that St Faustina saw and asked him to paint!
Daniel diSilva talks more on this, one can check that out.
Jesus, I trust in You! Amen!!!❤️🔥
If you believe the shroud is real, then you must not trust the gospels. The gospel clearly says Jesus had a face cloth that was a part from the body cloth.
Why can’t it be both? A facecloth overlayed with the shroud?
The face cloth would have been used to transport the body from the cross to the tomb, where they cleaned the body. They would have removed the face cloth and put it aside then place coins over the eyes and wrap him in the shroud. This matches the physical evidence and the scriptures
@@dat8835 there is absolutely no historic support for coins being placed at the eyes in this time. In Palestine. You cannot show me one body ever recovered showing that this was a practice during this time.
@@danlopez.3592 they are on the image
@@danlopez.3592 THERE ARE NO BODIES TO RECOVER. JEWS ALLOWED THE DECEASED'S BODY TO DECAY AND THEN PLACED THE BONES IN OSSUARIES.
“But now, it has been revealed by the appearing of our savior Christ
Jesus who abolished death and brought LIFE and IMMORTALITY
to light”. (Literally)
Excellent discussion. The “Jay Leno” of Christendom. 😂
In all seriousness, let’s all buy his book to promote the salvation of souls. Jesus’ Shroud is an excellent conversation starter for unsaved family and friends who cling to ‘scientific rationalism.’
Whaddo You Meme?? has also made a recent interesting video discussing the Shroud titled "Okay, Maybe I was Wrong" that I recommend watching where he's quite agnostic about its authenticity which I think is the same for Cam.
Christ is Risen! #East2WestTheology #DennisG33
The threedimensional features of the image might be the effect of a radiant energy of great potency and unknown origin. No medieval artist or scientist would have been able to make such an artifact. This consideration alone should have called wrong the radiocarbon dating. But there is also the % of vanillin within the linen fibers which desappears in very old fabrics (as is the case for the Shroud) whereas is still present in more recent ones.
And then the pollens, and the very particular linen, and so on...
We have the image of Jesus and this is a great sign for all of us, believers or not.
Great video Cameron. God bless 🙏
I wouldn't be surprised if they disccovered that it wasn't just a black and white negative but had color encoded into it.
It is "the silent witness", a comfort for believers (who don't need it to believe), and a mistery for non believers. The image is a mistery in the mistery: why a three dimensional photographic negative? Overall, why not a positive one? No medieval genius could have make such a unique artifact; and by what means and technology?
I’m 💯 convinced
I believe it and it is amazing. I also would not be shocked if Leonardo da Vinci could pull off something like this. He was brilliant and much before his time and probably before our times as well! I heard a documentary once that spoke about Leonardo spending a long time hidden away at the Vatican working on something important for them. I believe in our Lord. Bless us all.
Cameron: I want to touch base about the assumptions with temperature and humidity…
(Jump cut)
Cameron: what are your thoughts on the whole carbon dating fiasco?
So bizarre to me that people don’t wanna actually figure out the truth.
As Christians we go by faith, not by sight.. I think that’s what he meant by not being as important as a relic because as Christians we do not worship any image that is man-made.. I’m not saying to worship the shroud, but it is definitely not man-made. What is the shroud like the Bible has key information about our life and futures..
It's Christ's calling card. Awesome.