Colin, can you help me understand when one should value games journalists' opinions? In your words it seems like they should be ignored most of the time, unless they happen to praise TLOU Part 2.
Also when they say good things about intergalactic especially when they will start saying “this has never been done before” even though we have seen this before a million times
He's not telling you to value the opinion of the game journalist. He likes the last of us part 2 not because game journalist like it but because he likes it. Collins opinion has always been form your own opinion divorced from critics and the gaming community mob.
I find the entire conversation about Intergalactic a waste of everybody's time. Pretends the game is happening in a vacuum and can't understand why the 100th game in the last 12 months, with THE MESSAGE on the forefront, is getting a pushback or selling poorly. "Oh being geh is woke now hAhAHhAH". We can have 10 games like Concord, which was the pure juice of propaganda, failing miserably and the issue will be gameplay, it's a new IP, it wasn't F2P, the genre is played out, the characters are boring or absolutely ANYTHING but, the point of these conversations. Why did Dragon Quest do somersaults around body type A/B when they address boys/girls armor in game? Why did Ragnarok race swap a character from Nordic mythology? Why did Veilguard use 2024 slangs in an medieval/fantasy setting? Why do we always NEED to bring all the luggage from the past decade to make a point when we are already over the "it's not happening, it's just your imagination" phase? The only comment that added anything meaningful to the conversation was this, 2:46:49. It was honest, it was the truth and probably what is really happening inside these studios. I find some Neil Druckmann memes funny but, they're not trying to be funny, they're just trying to be mean for the sake of it. He wanted to be the face of the studio and his work should be criticized but, the personal comments are not my thing.
So I’m curious.. what’s “THE MESSAGE”? There no way sci-fi is played out lol your telling me you’ve played a bunch of games that look like this? Stop please.
Remember when journalist said "everything is political" to defend when people got mad at certain games. Well it seems the horseshoe has wrapped around so much that now gamers have the same opinion, instead to justify the opposite.
It sounds like it is a you problem. This game looks like Dark souls. And yes I am tired of games like that too but I will probably be ready for this game in a few years.
‘The message on the forefront’ LMAO. ND release innocuous trailer of their new sci fi franchise which shows basically nothing other than what aesthetic they’re going for. Brain rotted right wing culture warriors: THIS IS WOKENESS GONE MAD
It's funny to see the three boys explaining that a female protagonist or a male one shouldn't change anything, yet there is a clear push for it and studios clearly have numbers to back their claim for forcing so much inclusion and representation in games. As for myself I don't really mind the gender of my protagonist, but like Colin often says, don't get mad when we notice.
If you don't care about Playstation Studios games only having female protagonists and are confused that others aren't into it, that's fine but you should accept their preference. Heck, the number one argument I see for the inclusion of more female protagonists in games is that it makes women feel more welcome, because they don't relate to the standard herotype. Well, obviously the inverse is also going to be true, dudes aren't aren't going to be drawn to playing as women who are LGBT (Aloy & Ellie) - and that's probably why they assumed the Intergalatic protag will also be, it's basic pattern recognition. 'diversity fatigue' is a valid criticism IMO, because like Dustin said, "geez, another character like this?" is a common sentiment, and statistics show men are still the primary consumers of these types of games, they're the core audience. The reactionary pendulum has swung way too far one way, where the traditional male protagonist is now uncommon in AAA. I'd say it's the main audience that listens to this very podcast, and if THAT's who you were referring to when you said you want to 'clean up this community' then you're going to face some backlash.
Brother we are HUMAN, the word diversity around this context shouldn't even be a thing but over thousands & thousands of years, we have somehow separated ourselves from others because of gender or colors. Why can't we just relate to someone because theyre human, why do they have to look a certain way.
I think Colin's general disconnect from the grander culture, while being useful in forming some opinions about the industry, is clearly showing itself to be a double edged sword at this point. You dont need to agree with the hate, but its becoming clear that there's not a great understanding of where the hate stems from. Unfortunately this episode came across overly dismissive. I hope this comment section leads the crew to at least try a little harder to understand.
You guys must-at some level-understand people's preference for aesthetics. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Hollywood actors are beautiful. It is not a coincidence that male and female leads are generally good-looking and gender-confirming. To think it wouldn't apply to games is naive. There are many legitimate critiques of Naughty Dog regarding its story, characters, pacing, etc. Just as there are many issues you (Colin) have with The Last Jedi that are not unfounded, similar issues can exist on games you love. Also, I implore you to stop looking or acknowledging the most bad faith takes out there. These takes typically lack nuance and represent a more collective frustration than an actual coherent point. Grumzz is a symptom, not a cure. He is echoing what some people are feeling and badly articulating these points for clout. One final note- please don't police arguments unless it's explicitly offensive. Part of the fun of game discussions is heated back and forth. It's disappointing if a monoculture of "best friends" (who coincidentally all repeat the same points) arose.
The funny thing about The Last Jedi (in how Dustin brought it up as an example of bad writing for Luke) is that he is doing precisely what he is accusing others of doing with TLOU pt. 2. Dustin couldn't handle Rian Johnson's "bold" decisions. Luke is a stubborn and whiney kid for most of the OG trilogy, watch it again if you think otherwise. His character in TLJ is totally in line with his actions in the previous trilogy, but I totally get why some fanboys didn't like it. Not being able to see that irony is a big part of the "problem" here.
@Epiousios18 "His character in TLJ is totally in line with the previous trilogy" Wow. Hard disagree on this one. Even Mark Hamil himself said Luke's motivations in TLJ made no sense.
I have literally not heard of one legit criticism of tlou2 that isn't extremely loaded or reduced to "too woke." There are also actors all the time who aren't traditionally attractive like Steve Buscemi, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Melissa McCarthy who are amazing at what they do and people like watching them. So to say that games NEEDS anime-esque big titty waifu characters is a terrible argument and laughable. Imagine getting mad at a game because you can't get a boner from watching the female lead. How about you just don't play it? But people take it a step further and spend all their time actively hating the game with deranged comments.
Colin is to Naughty Dog what he thinks Sonic fans are to Sonic: bending over backwards to faun over mediocre games whose novelty ran out almost 20 years ago (Uncharted came out 2007 right?)
Man this was a tough listen. A fan of LSM for a couple years now and too see how much of a echo chamber this show is, is pretty crazy. If a topic has this much discourse there has to be other sides of the coin but they just agree with each other for a hour on base level things
After finishing this was even worst that i imagined. These guys have are 100% Sony fanboys and can’t even consider critiquing the fact that there are no male lead characters in a male dominated medium. Very weird for a platform that prides them self on NOT being fanboys
There’s plenty of male leads in video games. Why does 1 game not having one mean anything to you? I love hot men leads myself, but I don’t cry when I don’t get that here and there. Sounds like you are the echo chamber person coming at this in a very disingenuous and heavily biased way.
@@deez8060what are you talking about? There are FAR more male leads in games than women. You’re talking about echo chambers but regurgitating baseless nonsense.
@@colinmitchell7395 - Ellie in TLOU P2, Selene in Returnal, Aloy in Horizon, Atsu in Ghost of Yotei, Jordan in Intergalactic, Rivet in R&C. Cassie Drake likely to take over Uncharted. Thrúd taking Thor's hammer in GoW:R. We're just pointing out an obvious ideology push away from male leads, no one is "crying".
Man you really need to get someone on the show to represent the other side of the "woke" thing Colin. You're normally so good at this sort of thing, not sure why you seem to be short-circuiting on this particular issue. Get someone like Legendary Drops or Critical Drinker on the show. Both are intelligent and can have a nuanced discussion on the issue.
nice try Chris I actually listen to your other podcasts and heard your problems with removing the dislike button and its even more important now since AI science channels are popping up with disinformation. This is the first SS episode I've heard such dishonesty from the whole table and I'm a female supporter but my god was this episode just skipping over ppls legitimate criticisms of ND.
"Legitimate criticisms" Wah wah waaaahing because the main character in a videogame isn't generic white guy #9,244,242,111,407 isn't "legitimate" by any measure. The game hasn't come out and incels are crying about how woke it is. How is that legitimate? If you want gaming to remain whites-only then just say that. Instead of expressing fake concern over nothing, just say that you don't want to see those pesky minorities in your games. Just be honest.
What is Chris talking about when it comes to sales? Sui-cide squad - KTJL was responsible for over 200 million dollar loss for Warner Bros. It DIDN'T sell well. Not even remotely close. He is saying that Saints Row did better than they thought it would? Where? It sold so poorly that they closed the studio within months. Where is he pulling the sales data from? He thinks if a game charts on NPD/Circana list in its month of release, it sold well. It's laughable! Sacred Symbols for a very long time has been a podcast where hosts say factually wrong things with such confidence that people who don't know much would take them at face value and accept these factually incorrect statements as truth. And I am not even gonna go into the Sony fanboyism, Naughty Dog fanboy Syndrome, and so on.
Chris is becoming the absolute worst for just spouting completely incorrect data because he feels he needs to have something to say when Colin asks him for 'his thoughts'. Guy needs to either do more research before shooting off at the mouth or have the stones to say 'i don't know' or 'I have nothing to say about this' when it comes his turn to chime in on a topic.
@@GamesNosh Anyone who talks for a living will eventually break their own brain. Especially if they make more than the average doctor. It's a fake job where someone wins the lottery of talking for a living and they all will get lazy, egotistical and lose their mind. The average steam review page for a random game, written by a slew of "nobodies" has more insight than any talking head idiot.
@@GamesNosh Exactly. Tell me ONCE when Chris himself brought out some data or research on this podcast. Chris just shows up to the podcast and treats this as free easy money making job. It has always been Colin saying whatever. And Chris going - That's wild to me.
17 днів тому+25
Trying to get Chris’s reddit rotted brain to understand this will be a tough one
So all citicism of the game, except for that "Character dying", is ignored. Just all a bunch of woke-hating whiners, huh?! Wow, the cope is strong this episode, that was really embarassing to watch, the only thing that could have made this worse if Neil Druckmann, had walked in, asking if somebody needed something to drink, whilst simping for Naughty Dog.
Did you even watch the video. Dustin en Chris have a lot criticism of TLOU2. But we hardly ever get to have that conversation, because people build their criticism of the game around a story beat they did not like.
3:26:56 Yes, Dustin. That's the perfect example proving that it has nothing to do with being anti-women or sexist. Just like Asmon pointed out, when it's a male main character, you don't want to play as a fat neckbeard wearing a fedora, you want to play as Clive. When it's a woman, people want to play as a woman that is sexy and cool, like Eve, 2b, Tifa, etc., not some cringe, current year California value-having see you next Tuesday. The Eastern developers understand this to a T, the Western developers actively fight against it, and that's why we have this massive dichotomy developing. You guys agree with it too, you just don't want to admit it because it's people that you don't like personally ("grifters") making the point. Just look at your 2024 wrap-ups, they were basically 100% Eastern-developed games.
"California values". You saw all of ten minutes of trailer footage and you've already made a value judgement of the character based on a hairstyle and wardrobe. Get a grip.
@@dtanobo did she listen to any of the risks involved in heading towards the planet? Or did she grab an empty cup of soda and fruitlessly try to drink the remnants while looking at the monitor with an expression that screams, "I'm not going to listen to you,"?
2:39:33 Lol at Chris saying that adding the UA-cam dislike button back is “terminally online” as if that wasn’t a feature for 15 years before UA-cam removed it
I think you are missing the point of what he was saying. To care enough about it to go back and add it in is another level of UA-camness that the majority of UA-cam viewers simply don’t have in them.
@@MitchellMiller1 I would agree if UA-cam never had a dislike button for most of its life and then adding one now would be weird, but adding back a popular feature isn’t that crazy imo. Plus, I think its usually a good tool to see the general consensus on things good or bad
@@MitchellMiller1 I think the fact that people defend that it was removed says more then anything wanting it back would say. The reality is: It's not toxic gamers that is killing devs like Naughty Dog, it's the toxic positivity in those dev studios. They have a culture where every action and choice they make must be viewed as correct and anyone that dislikes their actions is a hater and some form of an -ist so they just push forward regardless of what the customers are saying.
@@BrandonHeat243 Can you give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of a studio as prolific as Naughty Dog that was "killed" by toxic positivity? Not even Naughty Dog is dying, so I don't even know what you are talking about. And so help me if you try to use Bungie as your example. XD
@@MitchellMiller1 I was thinking specifically of Ubisoft with my comment. And it's undeniable. Look at the AC Shadows stuff. Making the MC of AC Japan a brother was an objectively bad decision. It has zero precedent in the series and was clearly just a political stunt. And how has Ubisoft reacted? They doubled down and called everyone that didn't like that clearly awful decision an -ist. And Naughty Dog isn't dying yet because they haven't released a new game in 4 years. Can't fail if you don't have any products out that can fail.
Also, stop with the automatic Naughty Dog defense. Understand why people don't have automatic deference for based TLOUP2, each game is going to sell less copies compared to the previous one leaks or not.
I hated TLOU2, vehemently disliked the story. But to get this upset over it is asinine. It's a video game. The way people are acting, you'd think Druckmann personally shot their dog.
It is kind of insane that, with how much time this podcast has devoted to talking about The Last of Us 2 over the years, I literally don't think I've EVER heard you address any of the actual criticisms people have with the game. Like, you all genuinely seem to think that the only problem people have is the fact that the "big thing" in the game happened. None of you even seem to be aware of the numerous other problems people have raised and have been discussing ad nauseam for half a decade. I can't tell if it's because you're just so far deep in an echo chamber that you genuinely don't know about any of this discourse, or if you are aware and you're actively choosing to pretend there's nothing to see here, because it's far easier to just shrug it off as crybabies on the internet than to actually contend with any real points. I can handle disagreements on pieces of media, what I can't handle is sheer denial of the reality of discourse surrounding said media. A similar thing happened with The Last Jedi. Tons of people insisted there was nothing to be discussed, that the movie was great and no real fan had any problems, and that anyone that complained was just a racist troll that was mad a purpled-haired chick talked down to a dude in movie, even though there were literally probably THOUSANDS of hours of people discussing the flaws with the writing, all there for anyone to search up, digest, and even retort. Same thing applies here. But no, much smoother to just write it off as retards that didn't play the game, instead of people like myself, which are genuine fans of the first game that were let down by several writing choices throughout the second game.
This is what infuriates me. I don't mind Colin loving TLoU 2, nor do I need someone with my opinions to be on the show, necessarily. But to consistently act for four years as if there is _no_ valid criticism of the game is bonkers. I can't tell at this point if they're being dishonest or just ignorant.
No Nintendo, Xbox or PC dev can create a total package game that's even half as good as TLOU 2. Focus on that fact. Even if it isn't seen as good as the 1st ND is still top choice to be considered best studio in the biz. And GTA 5's story wasn't that good.
@@east00 This is an absolutely insane take that tells me you're also in a bubble. You can think that, but literally millions of people would beg to differ. It's not a "fact". Keep telling yourself it's objectively brilliant, and we'll keep ignoring it and playing better games.
If Chris, Dustin and Colin can’t understand the Intergalactic hate, they won’t understand the NaughtyDog/Neil Druckman hate. By Colin calling it “derangement”.. he’s already biased and calling the dislike unwarranted. and no.. it’s not just about Joel dying, that has a role to play in it. The “undeniable quality of their games” was revelant in 2016 with Uncharted 4, and even that was met with a background of deep development issues with them pushing out Amy Hennig and Neil rising to a more prodominent role in the studio. One thing that was noted with Uncharted 4 was Nadine. She was the “strong, black woman” in the game that was undeniably put there in response to Neil’s CLEAR feministic views about women characters in video games and how they are portrayed in games, including Anita Sarkasian working on projects and Neil working on projects with her. Uncharted Lost Legacy wasn’t a bad game, although it did have 2 female leads.. I don’t think people really cared or noticed. They were already established characters and they played well off of eachother. Nothing seems “in your face” politically. The rollout leading up to TLOU2 was great. The teaser trailers/gameplay trailers/tv spots were all great, the interviews about it were great. Neil saying, “We’ll do right by you” set well with the community. The last trailer with Joel appearing at the end put to bed that everyone’s fear that Joel was just dead throughout the game. It meant Joel would have a more active role in the story. Fast forward and the leaks come out the came how Joel dies 2-3 hours into the beginning of the game (telling us that trailer was false advertisement). . Not to mention all the diffrent reviews not including the second half of the game with Abby. and Sony striking channels who talked about the spoilers. We have a character who looks trans (we know she is a woman).. but she resembles Neil’s idea of what strong women look like. There are many story and writing elements (not just Joel’s death).. that are poorly handled, and we have the ending of the game.. which makes very little sense. Afterwards we have voice actors like Troy and developers like Druckman coming out calling people who dislike the game bigots, racists and transphobes, essentially dismissing all criticism that wasn’t just about Abby looking like a trans character. All while this is happening, Disney is making decisions in movies and tv shows to push more left leaning content. Fast foward to 2022-2024. We have female lead games with bad writing, woke”/DEI agendas. Dustin is right to a degree that part of the issue is the traditional male protagonist archetype is being burnt to the ground. We see saw this with Suidicde Squad KTJL.. We have terrible dialogue ridden Forespoken.. we have Sweet Baby Inc causing issue with game companies. We have ND cancelling Factions 2, and putting out what seems like 5 different remakes/remasters of the same game. Intergalatic The Hereitic Prophet comes out with this asian bald woman with a shit eating grin personality while sucking on a straw with another female character who sounds like she smokes with an eyepatch and fans are just tired of it. Neil has turned into someone who i think would rather make movies and he thinks he’s a better writer than what he actually is.
@@Jjcbgoat Sure, especially if it goes to to the level of making you believe a character would be alive, and an active part of the story when in actually he wasn’t. they literally swapped the Joel character for Jesse in the scene. It was close to release too. .so it wasn’t just an old trailer.... the story was already finished at that point in development. The misleading element was intentional to get people to buy the game.
3:22:00 colin is completely missing the point here. Its about the FORCED nature of whats happening in the industry. Of course we dont actually care about the gender of pur heroes in a vacuum. But when you look at the industry as a whole ot is changing for the worse. #toxicpositivity
These guys dont interact with regular people much anymore. And its showing. Its not a bald woman that concerns gamers. But a future chic whos mad about trump winning, is concerning when people dont want political crap pushed in their leisure time. Its not coincidental the space chic is shaving her head in the open introduction to the character. Thats 100% intentional. And the creators of the game are absolutely on baord. You dont turn off your comments to your brand new title when your excited to show off your work. You invite feedback, unless your intentionally doing something nefarious.
Colin doesn't leave his house anymore and Chris is trapped in his liberal bubble. Completly detached from the community they're supposed to be talking to.
I can't believe that at this point even Jaffe questions Neil's judgement on the decision of the main character when you have hundreds of millions of dollars riding in a project like this, and Colin/Chris can't comprehend the reaction towards it, I feel Dustin understands this but seems to have no backbone to disagree with Colin on this. You guys need to start acknowledging the CONTEXT under what these decisions are being made. No one was hating on female characters or political messaging in the past because there was not a perceived trend on lefty US politics influencing decisions being made by game developers, hell most of the classic survival horror games genre had female protagonists and no one was complaining back then. With the current political polarization in the US (obviously a ton of people disagree vehemently to progressive politics in the US, even more so in the rest of the world), with the Playstation HQ moving to California, every or most western developers having a DEI department in their company, which is obviously a lefty political activist department most likely the root cause of the "Toxic positivity" mindset (self censorship of criticizing anything progressive), and with a proven trend in the last several years that game devs can't stop themselves from injecting their political views into their games, I find it baffling at this point you won't understand the response these games are receiving. Yes a lot of times it goes overboard and bad actors exist, which affects games that don't deserve this (ex. the backlash against Angela in Silent Hill 2, pretty good remake btw). It is not a secret people don't wanna pay money to be preached at by condescending people making these decisions, the Last of Us part 2 sold bad in your opinion, but I bet half of the sales were because of part's 1 success, so it would've sold even worse. I've been playing in playstation since the ps1 era, and really am starting to resent California's influence burning all the good will that the PS4 created, PS5 owes most of it's success on the goodwill the predecessor made, I wish they had never made that decision to move to the US and allow US politics to infect them. With how much resentment towards Sony there currently is I feel that Steam is sensing this and will throw their hat in the console market, Steam has a ton of good will from it's users, it may or it may not become a problem for Sony, but one thing is to be sure, if they offer anything remotely comparable I feel the overwhelming narrative online will be of support of Steam over PS. Anyhow Idk I feel dissapointed you guys won't even acknowledge the obvious, I like the podcast and the personalities but your opinions regarding this are the opposite of valuable, which might color the way I hear your other arguments.
All of that is great (and a lot of what you said is wrong.. I don’t think you know what real progressive politics even are.. hint.. it’s not “DEI” or “ID-pol”) but let me stop you right there: None of what you said has anything to do with the ND trailer. There’s nothing wrong with the trailer.
Excluding all of the bad faith arguments, last of us 2 and joker 2 are divisive for their content intentionally by the creators who even admit it. So saying that everyone who doesn’t like a story for how the story plays out is either wrong or just too dumb to comprehend is pretentious. Collin has always been respected for his honest views and advocating to vote with your wallet, but on one of the last episodes he flips by telling us to ignore bad advertising or how a game looks and to step out of our comfort zone and buy the game or we can’t have an opinion on it.
You can't have an opinion worth anything on a 4 minute teaser trailer that didn't feature gameplay. Also, if we're being honest, you can't have an opinion on something you didn't play. So yes you should buy and play something before drawing conclusions worth sharing. Before you do any of that, your opinion is just noise that's not relevant to any discussion.
@ I agree that intergalactic didn’t give enough to warrant a real opinion on the game, I disagree with your second statement. The market speaks their opinion with their willingness to pay, if a game especially one in a beloved franchise like dragon age under performs it’s because the fan base and potential fans weren’t given enough reason to buy. I’ve been a fan of dragon age from the beginning and can name numerous reasons why veilguard is a failure to the series without having played it and even without mentioning a certain character. If everyone keeps buying bad games so they can claim the right to talk about why a game is bad then we will continue to get bad games.
Thank you I 100% agree with Colin and Chris and actually didn’t mind the game and like the trailer for intergalactic. But Dustin constantly saying if you don’t like it you just can’t comprehend it. Bro weren’t you filming weddings in Butler Pennsylvania like 2 years ago. Relax 🤡
@@thatguy1380 Dragon Age and Bioware are nowhere near what they were 10 years ago. They've released Anthem and Andromeda, two very mid games that felt more EA than Bioware. Not to mention Dragon Age was never their best selling franchise, and Inquisition was an outlier that sold well because it was 2014 and people wanted to play a real next gen game at the time. Plus it was GOTY material having actually won it back then. The "market" is more than just red pilled dudes with too much time on their hands bitching about bald women, it's a complex system of coincidence, luck, and nowadays a strong showing on social media. Helldivers sold HUGE numbers because of it's timing and Internet blowup. There was no marketing for that game and Arrowhead was an unknown, but the gameplay spoke for itself. And when the time comes and ND shows what they've cooked up the last 5 years, most of this noise will be irrelevant.
@@Liam-co2nl inquisition wasn’t bad, just massively bloated to the point where it became a chore to finish, but it also kept the main themes of the series unlike veilguard. It doesn’t matter if BioWare is a mostly new team, if you’re going to continue a franchise then you have to make sure it fits with the rest or it’s going to look like you threw the dragon age name on it solely to help sales. My first comment already addressed bad faith arguers, my second addressed my personal take that intergalactic didn’t have enough to form an opinion on so idk why you keep using blanket terms to label me instead of just debating my claims. This was my whole point, you can tell who the grifters or bad faith people are by debating a topic with them and if they can’t provide evidence to support their claim. Helldivers 2 supports my claim because they showed what the game was and a lot of people said “hey that looks fun” and they were right. I like games people hate like Halo 5, resident evil 6 and Operation Raccoon City and as long as people are honest about their takes whether they played them or not they are still valid.
Chris using 'Suicide Squad' & the 'Saint's Row' reboot as examples of games with negative online discourse that sold much better than you would have expected is yet another clown take from him. Ah yes 'Suicide Squad' the game that lost WB Games $200m and recently announced it would no longer be receiving content updates less than a year after launch due to the lack of active players and the 'Saint's Row' reboot aka the game that caused Volition to be closed forever! 🤣
Yeah lol Although I believe that it did sell well on the first month of release and was included the top 10. I think it’s not suicide squad that he was talking about. It was Gotham Knights. I think it did really well even if it’s not a good game at all.
SSKtJL sold millions. It was a top 20 sold game of the year until November. It outsold Metaphor, Stellar Blade, Warhammer, Astro Bot among other pretty great games.
The ignorance is palpable. It seems that Colin's love for TLOU II has prevented him from listening to any criticism of it. Most people assumed that what happened to that character was going to happen somehow. It's the way it was executed that people don't like. Yes, what happened does make sense, but it's the writing and the timing that pissed people off. It's also how the character was treated and they didn't act how they should. There's been plenty of criticism of the game. From the writing, to the pacing, to the gameplay, to the characters. There a ton of it that you seem to have ignored completely. There's multiple reasons that people don't like Neil Druckmann. One is obviously TLOU II. Another is how Naughty Dog false copyright striked UA-camrs and Neil was talking about how he wanted that and was okay with it. Even pointing out certain videos. There's also that speech he gave about how much he liked Anita Sarkeesian and how women being portrayed as sexy is misogynistic. He also said that originally the infected were all going to be women, but he thought that was misogynistic, so they changed it. Even though it could be an interesting concept if done right. It does seem he's woke contrary to Colin's opinion.
I think that it is nice of him to be this accepting of a game no one knows anything about. Do you know? Sometimes it is better to chill out because you know that you will not change the game in any way. So if you don't like what you see that is always ok. I hate sports games so I don't play them. And I would never comment on a video of any of these shit games ever.😅
@@Alienshade Uncharted is my favorite video game franchise. I also liked the first Last of Us. I would love to buy another Naughty Dog game, but I don't like the direction Neil Druckmann has taken them in since TLOU II. I'm not saying I'll never get this. If I hear good things from people I trust and it seems like a game I'd like, then I will. I think a lot of people upset about it are in a similar boat. I bet there is some people who would never be interested in playing that type of game regardless of quality that are complaining, but I think there's so much backlash, because most are fans of old Naughty Dog and they don't like the direction they're going in. Also, I think it's good to criticize something if you have problems with it. Maybe it won't change anything with that game, but those criticisms may be considered next time. I don't think you should necessarily just accept what they put in front of you. Even though there's not much we know about the game. We can still analyze and criticize what we do know and with it being this early, maybe there will be change if people criticize it. I wouldn't hold my breath though lol.
@@AlienshadeNeil criticized Quiet’s design 2 years before the Phantom Pain was out, and she ended being the only character that had a decent storyline. So I will do the same to his shitty game
People can create the type of game they want, write pieces, say stuff about gamers but, at the end of the day we have the right to vote with our wallet.
@@user-dj9iu2et3r What I find so weird about people is...when a game maybe isn't for them or whatever, they go on tantrums and complain non stop, it's just weird and wild... If I don't like a game I just don't buy it.. or don't go on crying about it. I move on.
And it’s going to be a huge hit. Like Chris said, the average person is going to look at this game and be like yeah, I want to play it. People buy newly released games just because they can ALL the time. Not everyone is a gamer, so they just the hot new thing
There is, and always has been since release, valid and completely warranted criticisms of the Last of Us Part II's narrative, direction, and characters. **NakeyJakey's video on it, Erik Kain's review from Forbes (who also defended Chris Avellone), Suggestive Gaming's video on it, etc. and so on.** It's not because of any surface level, vapid reasons like "it's woke" or "Abby is 'x' or isn't 'y'," that the loud minority is flaunting online which is LARGELY what the 'Naughty Dog derangement' segment is railing against. There are plenty of videos and articles online from well-respected people who've laid out their thoughts respectfully on that sentiment. Yes, a lot of the hate Intergalactic is getting online is from the loud minority who have bad faith arguments, but I think plenty of people who were fans of Naughty Dog are just skeptical and worried going forward after playing TLOU II. Naughty Dog is undeniably one of the most prolific and high quality PlayStation first parties around and PS first-party releases frankly come up more sparingly than many fans would like. It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that you are no longer the target audience for a once fan-favorite studio or one of the biggest first-party devs on your preferred platform. Personally, I don't want to sit through another 35 hour experience where I hate playing half of it because a large portion of the game is not resonating with me. But it's a first party title, we don't get those every day, I would like to be part of the conversation, and I like to finish games. At the same time, will I rail against the dev or director online with vitriolic messages? No. But I don't think most people who feel the same way I do will either. We just won't buy the game. How about, instead of a SS+ episode talking to Hoeg for the 3rd time in two months (love ya Hoeg but it's a lot) about dense and esoteric business dealings in the video game industry, Colin reaches out to folks who have talked openly about their well-thought out, analytical criticisms about TLOU II's narrative issues and have a civil conversation about it. Colin's always talking about how he likes hearing different opinions and is open to debate, right? I know I for one would love for my Patreon dollars to go to a one-off discussion episode like that! It's been four years, ND just announced another game, why not?
"How about Colin reaches out to folks who have talked openly about their well-thought out, analytical criticisms about TLOU II's narrative issues and have a civil conversation about it." That would require Colin actually listening to the opinion of anyone else other than himself.
@ colin will listen but just disagree. Just like I disagree with people's critique of the game. No one can change my opinion on the game. I think k it's a masterpiece
Funny thing is, I bet Sony Japan leadership is sick of this stuff as well. That is what you get for having all your big Western Studios located in California. Playing as a female in Ghost of Yotei is the most insanely woke shit since AC Shadows.
How do these guys not know where the criticism comes from? Or the "derangement" as they're calling it. This stuff is so easy to see. Last game, kill my favorite character in a game quickly while 2 girl bosses fight over revenge that actually doesn't get a resolution other than revenge is bad. This stuff ain't rocket science to understand. Neil drunkman wishes he was a man but in a females body, big muscles but also feminine. Dude his last story was shit and he's following it up with a trailer of an Asian tom boy shaving her head to apparently save a galaxy or the human race. It's shit guys and they know it and we know it. Hate to say but the shit feels the definition of woke...period
Can you imagine if people threw tantrums like you every time their favorite character died in Game of Thrones or Walking Dead? 😂 So a character you liked died. Boo hoo.
Over the past decade there’s been an obvious trend of making games unappealing in both narrative and character design in pursuit of very specific partisan sensibilities. The term “woke” is thrown around too much but it really seems to fit the bill here. We seemingly can’t have beautiful female characters because it’s exploiting the male gaze. You can’t give your character big boobs in Dragon Age for the same reason. Women characters overall have become unlikable 2D ‘girl boss’ cutouts because it’s current year damnit and a portrayal of a woman as anything other than the effortless macho badass is sexist! Then of course you have seemingly every female also being written in as a lesbian because we need to correct that historical under-representation. It all just rips the fun out of games, which at the end of the day is what gaming is supposed to be about. This modern nuttiness really went over the rails in Naughty Dog’s game where we had a hilarious checklist of agenda items: unlikable steroid abusing women, pregnant women in front line combat, lesbian Jewish women, obligatory anti-gay bigots to shame, trans youth oppressed by a cult bigots, hulking female brute enemies, etc. All of that energy into checking boxes and the story was terrible and contrived. Gamers have every right to be angry their favorite mediums are being ruined by political zealots who feel much more compelled to put bad politics into their games than create good enjoyable pieces of entertainment.
You guys are arguing in such bad faith when talking about naughty dog criticism You painted everyone with the incel brush and how we're all just malicious haters and "oh they couldn't handle the bold choices in tlou2 because they're babies" like.. what?
The strawman they role out every time it comes to defending TLoU2 is genuinely painful to listen to. God forbid they actually talk with someone who thought the game was bad.
Any creative product is fair play for judgement it’s just unfortunate that a large majority of the ND criticism is presented in such poor manner and bad faith. It drowns out legitimate criticism and conversation.
Doesn't the insane reaction to the Entergalactic teaser kind of prove their point? I mean we have seen no gameplay and people are already losing their shit. Same thing happened when TLOU2 got spoiled before release. We never got to talk about serious criticism because most people only did it after whining about a story beat that they disliked and all kinds of culture war bullshit. After that a lot people dont care about valid criticism you may have.
Colin, how about giving Bruce Staley credit for TLOU success instead of always mentioning your boy Neil, after all Part One was the much more successful game in terms of sales. Funny how with the Last of us part one success, it always seems Neil takes the credit for it all and never have I seen him once in any interview after the success of the show and the 2 games releases give any credit to Bruce. Bruce did co-direct the game as well yet you never hear about him or even think about him when anyone mentions TLOU. If you guys still don’t understand the public vitriol for part 2 and naughty dog then maybe you guys don’t understand some of your audience, it’s more than just about taking out Joel… 😒
And we all saw the direction when Neil takes the reins for full director of a game and how sloppy of a direction Part 2 turned out to be. Got no problem with the story, I felt it was just out of order and could have been done a lot better. For example SPOILERS!!!! I feel like if Joel was killed much later in the story instead of the first hour of the game and we actually played some Ellie’s flashbacks between her and Joel in present time, the vitriol for this game wouldn’t be as bad as it is at this moment today for part 2.
How disingenuous of Colin to always say "It's like they're daring you to notice" when it comes to weird protagonist or character decisions in AC Shadows or Dragon Age Veilguard and other games that don't matter so much to him, but then conveniently forget that argument when it comes to Druckman and ND. And Chris saying there is no nuance when it comes to this discussion. Y'all are full of shit. I just wrote you a few weeks back with a nuanced take on the whole controversy surrounding Ghost of Yotei and you didn't bother to read it. That's fine, I'm not saying you have to, but as you like to say, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You guys build up strawmen so hard to knock down, it's ridiculous. "Show me your tits!" Colin mocked.. most serious people aren't even saying that about Intergalactic! We think women should be women. Not designed to look like men, not designed solely for the male gaze with big tits, not Mary Sues who can do anything and everything, and not to subvert expectations just to piss people off and "dare us to notice or say something." And when we notice or say something, we're the ones who are crazy or misogynistic or bigoted? Get fucked, man. No one even brought up how off putting and dismissive Jordan's personality is in the trailer. This is supposed to be someone we WANT to play as? Someone giving off space teenager vibes who's trying to look like a space marine who makes product placement their personality? Sign me up! /s. I'm willing to reserve judgment on the final product but TLOU 2 revealed where much of Neil's writing direction was going with the sometimes weak narrative points and forced politicization. I just don't have faith in them to do it without spitting on their audience. Colin use to stand for something, even if he didn't agree with another's viewpoints, but this is the type of shit I'd expect at every other lazy games podcast or website. We're giving nuanced takes but you refuse to read or accept them. How about you don't label your audience and have enough self awareness that maybe you ARE missing something due to your own personal connections and biases. And shame on Dustin for not having the balls to say anything with his full-throated opinion. He kinda gets there halfway, then has a short, mealy mouthed response then sits back down in his corner. And that's fine if he doesn't agree with me, but at least EXPLAIN why you can "kinda see the issue" with what we're bringing up. You guys are giving the other far side of the argument to address the trolls and actual bigots on the opposite far side. There are those of us in the middle who notice this shit and are just sick of it. I'm the guy who loved Tales of Kenzera: Zau so much I platinumed it, and I am as conservative as they come. But I can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. I can have my viewpoints challenged and play videogames that don't reflect my political opinions. I also platinumed TLOU 2. But don't talk down to me or disregard my opinion just because you try to lump it in with a few crazies out there who DO believe the stupid shit like having any women in a game means it is "woke." THAT'S NOT OUR ARGUMENT. You get great female protagonists by having them EMBRACE their femininity, their physical, biological shortcomings when compared to men, using their brains and wit to come up with solutions to problems, and maybe seeing them train hard physically to at least try to be able to compete with a man. But we usually don't get that context these days. It's just "badass girl-boss" vibes with no rhyme or reason, or ONLY for the sake of DEI. I didn't hate Abby in TLOU 2: she at least worked out and referenced it, plus she loved Owen and had a physical, intimate relationship with him, and you could kind of understand why she did what she did. I was actually more empathetic towards Abby than Ellie by the end! BUT NO! I criticized Pope Druckman, and now the Inquisition is after me. I've really been debating if I wanted to keep supporting you on Patreon lately, and being sold down the river like this after years and years of support is going to make it really easy to cancel.
More often than not, when you guys are talking about masculinity or men’s representation in games it comes off entirely condescending. I been following my boy Das Colin for the better part of two decades, he’s been my go to for PS coverage since PS3 days, I remember seeing him on podcast beyond right before Beyond 100, been a wrap since. Though as a guy who is concerned about the state of masculinity as a whole, not just in gaming, I’m tired of coming to my favorite PS podcast just for you all to act like anyone who even has the concern at all, is some lunatic right wing zealot. “Mah tOo MaNy WaMen in My GamEs.” You continue to only address goofballs who talk like that on twitter, the vast majority of us don’t agree with them either. For you guys to continue to retread this conversation, having roughly the same dialogue has become a tiresome echo chamber. Let’s either get someone on that can offer some real perspective, not hyperbolic twitter nonsense, or maybe leave the conversation alone? There was a brief acknowledgment about the number of mascot characters Sony still has, who are traditional masculine men but nothing after. I genuinely hope some balance can be found here, I worry this echo chamber of condescension is going to push a lot of listeners away if it continues.
I agree with this entirely. As a proud masculine man. But, brother. I promise masculinity isn't dying in video games. Not the slightest. It's just you and many others look at these large corporations and base it off that. Space Marine 2 is a prime example of a hyper masculine game that came out recently. It's just these weird California/American group of studios that seemingly hate strong men.
Couldn’t agree more with this. Honestly it’s starting to feel like I’m watching the kinda funny guys at this point. I’m barely wanting to listen anymore if that’s the case.
@Psilo_Sybin space marine in the exception, not the rule. You'd have to be a fool to believe there isn't a anti masculine agenda being pushed with the ridiculous amount of female protagonists releasing.
I love you guys but I really can't listen to 'Colin defends TLOU2' again. Yes ND hate is extreme, totally agree, but the defensiveness surrounding all criticism is just annoying at this point.
@@dukeluffy1549 No as someone who enjoys ND games you're both incredibly annoying and the normal gamers in the middle are being drowned out by both emotionally immature sides.
*Please* Colin, *please* keep insulting your listeners and calling them racist. It's worked so well for companies over the past few years. It would be a real shame if your listeners abandon you while you continue to abuse them every podcast.
@@genericallyaccepteddepends which Colin show's up, there's they right wing free speech Colin that was sacked by a load of lefty's over a joke, then there's the ign liberal "my wife is black and I'm best friends with Neil who isn't woke" Colin ..it changes every couple of weeks but he's gotten really woke lately
17 днів тому
@@TTx04xCOBRA Ya I bet the guy with the Venom pfp has a girlfriend lmao
This podcast doesn't understand what "woke" is. They also counter with extreme strawman arguments. Yes she doesn't need hair but she also doesn't have to shave down to bald, why even wear certain clothing, why are many woman Niel puts in look like men and are abnormally/extremely strong and muscular? Why not just make the character male? Why not just put a feminine woman if you want to put a woman. The equivalent argument would be if most males Neil put in a game were hyper feminized, very skinny sensitive and weak with very little muscle...I'm sure these guys would get it then ..
@@Atare617The term has been co-opted and run into the ground by the right wing, and now serves as a lazy method of criticizing anything that doesn't affirm the user's beliefs or worldview.
@@Atare617 Wokism is essentially the idea that the primary driver of human interaction is dictated by the dynamic between oppressor and oppressed classes and the attempts to eliminate these perceived differences through equity and inclusion. The groups of concern are delineated a relatively small number of all possible characteristics e.g. race, sex, sexuality and more recently "gender."
Colin is incapable of just being normal when it comes to Naughty Dog. It always has to be "this is the greatest thing ever, youre just missing it because blah blah blah" Impossible to accept that some people just might not be into the writing or character design.
If he thinks its one of the greatest games ever then why wouldn't he voice it on the gaming podcast he hosts and owns? If you disagree with his opinion then don't listen, he is putting out his opinion honestly, would you prefer he just lie?
@@jacobself1920 You couldn't have misunderstood this comment more. I have no issue with him thinking it's one of the greatest games, it's how he reacts to people who don't agree
@@DD-fs9xt It's art. I think Outer Wilds is the greatst game of all time, if a bunch of people disagreed I would also make it clear I thought they were wrong and try to elucidate why I think they are. When Colin talks about those who don't see what he see's in TLOU2 it bears no connection to them as people or anything, he just disagress with their opinion on a piece of art, and disagrees strongly. Isn't that what any meaningful and honest discussion around games necessitates?
@@jacobself1920 So you have the same problem then. Why not just accept that some people don't agree with you and enjoy the game. You can think that's the greatest game of all time, just don't lecture others who don't and make weird generalizations about them like Colin does
I like to listen to this podcast, but as others have said, it's becoming an echo chamber. It just feels like everyone has to agree with Colin or each other. Also, Colin is super biased here, Naughty Dog always tries to push an agenda, while he mocks Veilguard in previous episodes about it's LGBTQ+ stuffed in. They need variety here it's just becoming the same over and over. " controversy happens." let's all talk and give the same opinions for 1 hour.
Because the TLOU story line has a logic and coherence that suits the game. Veil guard is just shoe horning the issues in to be seen to be checking boxes so they can say they are being inclusive. Cynical. Bonkers that some people can’t see the difference.
@oldskool4572 I definitely do see some difference, although you can not deny the obvious agenda they are trying to push with Abby. The game was great, but let's not pretend we don't see what they are trying to say. Ellie is sick, and I like more than Joel tbh, but Abby being jacked in a ruined world is dumb asf. and breaks realism they are trying to push.
Maybe it's time, after 4 years to actually look at the criticism of TLOU2. It's easy to find, nakeyjakey got a great video on it, and many other. But you won't because it will hurt your friends who ruined it.
You clearly didn't watch Nakey's video. His issues with the game isn't Joel dying or gay character or "woke" issues. So it's clear that you didn't watch his video...smh.
As expected, Colin and Co. Are completely out of touch on Intergalactic. I am not Anti-Woke but nobody likes being gaslit. People haven't forgotten Pt2's marketing that suggested that Joel would be in the game more than he was. Pt1 also didn't have the Fireflies as altruistic heroes, they stole Joel's guns when they were the reward for returning Ellie. I doubt in-game Joel would know, but you can't make a vaccine for a fungal virus. Their doctor going, immediately to "Hey, let's kill Ellie" instead of examining her, and running tests just shows how incompetent the Fireflies are. There was no moral Grey decision at the end of Pt1, Joel did what he had to. My only issue with Pt1's ending was not showing Joel taking as many guns with him as he could once the building was cleared. Pt2 is just Gaslight, the video game. Joel bad, the cycle of violence bad, the Fireflies good actually! Look at Bear the dog! Don't you want to pet Bear before Ellie kills him and calls him a fucker?! Isn't Abby awesome?! Ellie bad!! If Neil wasn't Colin's personal friend I think this game would be rightly hated the same way Star Wars: The Last Jedi is. Being subversive doesn't make you a brilliant writer; it means you have to bring your A-game to make it work, and it just didn't for a large amount of people. If you want to see Pt2's themes done better in every way possible outside of graphics, play Yakuza 0. I will never take away from Naughty Dog's technical ability to develop, to make things look gorgeous, or their efforts to normalize gay folks like Ellie. That being said, I just don't trust Neil as a writer. Without Bruce or Amy, Pt2 was bloated, sloppy, and the lore of Pt1 was bent and broken to fulfill his vision. Like Colin rants about books being taken out of the canon, what is the point in caring about Joel, Ellie, and the universe built in Pt1 if they are going to toss it all away for cheap shock slop? I'm sure you'll give it a 12/10 anyway Colin, then make 4 spoiler casts defending your friend just to counter the vitriol towards the game and Neil himself. Pt2 was just a mediocre title and Naughty Dog has to earn their right to be considered a premier PlayStation studio again with Intergalactic. The trailer was just bad; it doesn't tell you anything about the world, the name sucks, and to glean any information, you HAVE to read Neil's write-up. There are bad signs and red flags all over the place; the Gooners are less than 5% of this conversation, even if they are the loudest. Get off Twitter and talk with good-faith actors who didn't like the trailer, and they'll tell you the same I have.
I know Colin is a fan of ND and is friends with Neil but I was maybe hopeful for more nuance and less strawmans when they had this discussion. That clearly didn’t happen, very disappointing episode, oh well.
What is this? You talk as if there is no legitimate criticism of Naughty Dog, TLoU 2, or Druckmann. There are countless videos, articles, and podcasts with considered critiques, yet you disregard all of that as baseless or "deranged". Echo chamber.
Every time Colin says he "doesn't understand" why people dislike TLoU2, I die a little bit inside. It's fine if he likes it, but maybe listen to someone with a different opinion and then you'd understand!
Echo chamber is right. They act as if the opposition to the Last of Us 2 and now Intergalactic is just dumb and without substance. Couldn't possibly be that people have worthwhile criticism.
@@Atare617 What if people aren't interested in playing as a butch, androgynous, 'badass' fem protag? What if they have reservations about the writing/story after the catastrophe of TLoU2?
@@lastoftheb00mers When you look at the criticism (legit) about the game it basically boils down to the fact that trailer shows little about the game. That in itself is completely fair and not uncommon in the industry. Should that be enough to warrant hundreds of articles and youtube videos about the game. Not a chance. Look at the trailer itself, TECHNICALLY, it looks fantastic. People's mileage will vary with the content but it looks visually slick and we know that ND are at the top of the mountain when it comes to mocap. So yea, criticism is cool but the fact that most content isn't even about what the game is going to be about kinda reveals everything about the source of the hate
Colin calling out certain Xbox fans for being friendly with management or creating some Xbox fanart while defending Naughty Dog so much that his own wife calls him out on Summon Sign, I really hope the massive hypocrisy isn't lost on him.
He has had Shuhei and Neil Druckman over for Dinner when he lived with Greg still, numerous times. There are various pictures of them doing it…so yeah he loves PlayStation execs
I gotta say, it’s a bold strategy to essentially call half your audience “deranged” because we didn’t like the writing of TLOU 2 and the character design from Intergalactic. Big yikes… *Spoilers TLOU 2* Also, most people weren’t mad that Joel was killed… It was the manner in which he was killed. It was poor writing to have him killed off the way he did. He was killed because he revealed his name was Joel. Tommy and Joel survived for years because they didn’t give out detailed information to people they didn’t know. Suddenly, they go into a house of people they don’t know and start giving them all their information? Then in the end, Ellie kills off hundreds of people to reach Abby and then just lets her go? It’s just bad writing. Also, The actress who plays Jordan in Intergalactic just recently put out a post saying “You mad bro?” That featured fan art with the title “Fragile Masculini-tea”. Of course she deleted the post and you guys wonder why nobody cares to play this. People are tired of being preached at from celebs who don’t like you. Intergalactic deserves to fail.
Joel from the beginning of TLOU was not the same person he was at the end TLOU, and Joel at the end of TLOU wasn't the same person he was at the beginning of TLOU2. 4 Years had passed since, he is happily living in a functioning community, where one of his tasks was to help outsiders. Joel clearly have been softening in Jackson, the museum scene is the perfect example of that. When he and Tommy came across Abby, she was close to being killed, Joel helps her, and they fight together against infected. What reason Joel has to suspect Abby as a nefarious person? Also Abby's squad at first glance doesn't even look threatening. Group made of young people, with both genders, unlike hunters or even David's group from the first game.
@@obey400 that’s inaccurate. Their only job was to clear infected from around their camp. They weren’t obligated to help anybody. People change but survival instincts doesn’t. Also, the group they met were all armed, so they were still a threat. Joel would never go into the house where they shut the door behind them and let them get flanked. Him and Tommy certainly would never divulge information that would put their own camp at risk. Telling a group of random people whom are armed where your camp is, is a major risk.
@@TheOff1ceFan They clearly have increased the population in Jackson with outsiders, what are you talking about? Like Joel and Ellie themselves? Notes in the game show that outsiders have joined Jackson when doing the guarding tasks. And when it comes to Abby's squad, so what if they have weapons, it would be pretty stupid to move around in hostile grounds with no weapons? Abby's group also saved Joel and Tommy before they killed Joel. What reason they have to doubt these people? Explain? The only Reason Joel got killed was because they had reason to kill Joel. Basically very bad luck. Joel and Tommy also didn't have anywhere else to go. It was be or be killed.
@ you are doing mental gymnastics trying to justify Joel forgetting how to survive. Also, Jackson was massive at the end of the first Last of Us, so you can’t say one way or another that it has grown a bunch. You would not survive in a post apocalyptic world based on your outlook lmao
@@TheOff1ceFan You cannot counter my arguments, because you're overly emotional over entertainment product. I Gave you reasons why Tommy and Joel would act like they did. You gave me bunch of what ifs. group of 8 kids are not a threat to Jackson.
Sony 1st party games: Uncharted - retire ND and replace with daughter (supposedly) Ghosts - female in new game Ratchet - bring in female TLOU - kill Joel, move story on with Ellie Returnal - female Horizon - female Intergalactic - female To say there isn't a pattern is dishonest. When I play games I role-play as the character. I know I'm not the only one that does and I also know there are people that don't. You know what I don't do? I don't mock how other players play games and what's important to them. It's not that I can't play these games, it's that excitement playing as a female is so much less I may not even purchase the game at all.
Yea, as a male, I don’t mind playing a female occasionally. But now it seems like almost every Sony studio is making only female leads. Call me whatever you want, but as a male, I generally prefer to play as a male.
To say you would care if it was just males would be dishonest. You would just be fine if it were Also you conveniently leave out Ghost of Tsushima, Ratchet and Clank, Spider-Man, Astro Bot, and probably others not coming to mind
@@victory7763 "conveniently left out" I mentioned the new female lead in Ghosts and female added to Ratchet and Clank lol. Reading comprehension much? Thanks for reminding me though about Spider-Man which has forced Mary Jane missions that of all missions in the game are the most boring and should have been left out. Same will go for the new Wolverine game that has forced Jean Gray missions according to the insomniac leak. And how far-right extremist of you to assume Astro Bots gender, from what I've played (Platinum) AB's gender was never stated. People can bring up old franchises but remember AAA dev time is 4+ years. All these changes and path going forward started in 2016 with the Trump Derangement Syndrome. Take GoW for example, GoW2018 probably started in development around 2013/2014. There's a roadmap already for the game. What's next for the studio? We'll see won't we?
This isnt complicated Colin and LSM crew; if people can like the trailer and up vote it (and you have zero issue with that- which I dont have either), you cant pretend the guys who do the opposite are "out of touch" for judging it negatively based on the same trailer.
Except "she's bald" is a stupid reason to click dislike. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are equal. No one has to take juvenile adults seriously.
@@victory7763 I don't think that's the majority of people's reasoning for not liking her. I think most of us get the impression that she's an arrogant, close-minded, smug individual that actually puts in a ton of effort into her looks. Her being bald is not that important
@genericallyaccepted I can't tell because the comments on the video are in majority related to gender or bald heads. And for the most part if you scroll youtube most of the videos created about the game are about gender and bald heads
I don't even care about "woke" or "DEI" stuff, but I guess I just wish Western games could match the same magic from ~15 years ago. The Uncharted trilogy, Mass Effect trilogy, Halo trilogy, Gears of War triogy, God of War trilogy, Bethesda games from this time, early CoDs, Rockstar games from the 2000s, etc. Like... there's clearly something missing and it's just not as fun anymore. Nearly everything that people buy and really enjoy is coming out of East Asia.
Lets see how much of a derangement syndrome its gonna be when every single NORMAL gamer converts into non-buynary, and Sony fires half the studio after this disaster. Veilguard and company wasn't enough, i guess.
I think most "normal" people who are not deranged into requiring every main character in media they consume to be "relatable" to them will just play and enjoy the game.
I'm sorry this take is a miss, guys. When you have the lead actress posting and then deleting a propoganda post on Instagram in relation to the game with buzzwords to stir up and antagonize the target audience, I just dont see how the descions being made aren't intentional and politically driven...I'm not a fool who thinks by virtue of anything featuring a woman means something is woke, but this one is pretty blatant. She deleted it because naughty dog definitely reached out and told her take it down because it could affect their bottom line.
When you have a large group of people calling you ugly I mean it's a human reaction to respond. I'm confused what we're canceling naughty dog over. Maybe I'm missing additional context
@@MrQuarantine nah I don't believe in cancel culture. If the game ends up good I'll play it if it sucks I won't. The only context I really need to see is actual gameplay. Anything else at this point is just noise
Glad we had another hour+ of Colin defending The Last of Us again. It would be alright if he actually discussed the issues people have with recent ND titles, however he just builds a stupid straw man and attacks that instead.
@@dtanobo yea but why focus on those people? Wouldnt it make for good content to discuss actual valid criticisms instead of the nonsense? Very frustrating to listen to.
@@305antivenom Like Dustin and even more so Chris are those people since especially Chris didn't like the game. He did a whole spoilercast with Micah who didn't like the game. It's just that the people who are the loudest, unfortunately poison the well of discourse and not only that, the normal people who didn't like the game, didn't make talking about it a nightmare for years
Jesus Christ. Too bold? What is bold about intergalactic trailer? Product placement in your face, unlikable characters. Like another game with a tough smart ass female lead with a shaved head is pretty played out. The problem is if it’s done well, people wouldn’t care. But with the one super expensive first impression we got, it ain’t it. Leave it to a bunch of dudes who play videos games all day and talk about it for a job to create a straw man that these white knights have to knock down. Smh
That one publishing guy from Larian Studios said it best - you can't just dismiss the culture stuff prevalent in today's world that affects games and devs have to learn to navigate it, at least on this triple-A level of operating. Considering the resources, time, and technical capability of studio like Naughty Dog, I think they must consider their mass appeal without compromising on their vision significantly, and with Niel at the wheel its probably not likely going forward.
Why do you care about mass appeal? What difference does it make that a game sells well to you? This criticism is ridiculous because it is so obvious that you are working backwards. You decide you don't like a direction a game/studio is going and you try and find a "legitimate" reason. Please just be honest with your criticism.
I personally care coz simultaneously am a fan and respect Naughty Dog and their output through the generations, and want them to do commercially as well as they do critically, because there are only a few that could rival their lod's and technical mastery, and don't wanna see them go on a downward spiral in likeness to Bioware, Bethesda, etc... that's why sales are THE factor like it or not, especially on this triple A elite level, when they are tasked to make a game that would fire on every cylinder imaginable, innovation, relevancy, critical and mass appeal, sales. I haven't decided anything yet but I'm most likely gonna buy it on day 1 coz of all the mentioned above, I'm just arguing in the name of those who hold anti-ND sentiment... I'm not the one who needs extra convincing but many potential players do. This is the most honest I can be, having a nuanced perspective while still hoping ND succeeds but noticing a concerning trend.
@@conor8223 This new trend of people caring so deeply about sales is so bizarre. Who gives a fuck if a game sells 5 copies or 5 million as long as it's a good game? Intergalactic could be the biggest gaming flop of all time and there's still zero chance Naughty Dog gets shut down. Just further proves to me that these people don't even like gaming, they like arguing on social media to score points.
Delusional. Amy went on to be part of Forespoken and you all ragged on that up and down. Uncharted 4 is the best uncharted. Last of us 1 is uncontroversially considered good and tlou2 is very well written to anyone who regularly reads or watches films that aren't produced by Disney.
People don't hate Naughty Dog enough. I'll be rejoicing in Colin's tears in this episode. Hopefully the gaming industry starts healing and wanna-be movie directors get ejected from their current positions, opening space for talented and creative people. Neil Druckmann would do great in Hollywood, plenty of subpar writers and copycats for him to work with. TLOU2 writing gives him perfect credentials to join the club.
To me it is strange to see people hate games. I mean 80% of all games are probably not for you. I mean how do you have the energy to hate all those bad games? I really don't like 99% of all sports games. But I don't give it any energy.
When Neil Drunkman is game director, the game will be woke as F**k. He's made it very clear he has an agenda. Aslong as he is directing games, I'm done with Naughty Dog.
I like when Collin said that he's writing shows for HBO.... uh he's copied homework and called it a show. The TLoU TV Show is a straight up travesty. But good for Druckman for getting that deal done though, I guess. Its not particularly ethical, or good for the art, or a good reflection lol.
Especially annoying to hear him whine as his job is seemingly to simply talk into a camera from his bedroom. He's like a teenager but as you said, is actually pushing 30.
When IGN and Gamespots two female reviewers gave Days Gone a bad score and half of the review bitched about Deacon St John's character, his behavior, him being a male biker, etc. you can't say the gender or character should be irrelevant. Since they couldn't connect with a male biker protagonist, why should it be any different for us males? Let's be consistent now.
@Dan-hz4vf I thought it was self explanatory that Ididnt mean they are not real life besties... but ok...nevertheless he really agrees with Anita's insane ramblings and has used her as a consultant... so that in itself is a nett negative for Naughty Dog. If anything can be called woke she is and he listens when she speaks.
You three are the equivalent of a boxer that has literally only ever punched a bag...grow a pair between the lot of ye and have someone who doesn't share all your views on because it's easy to all have the same opinion and call everyone who disagrees name's when there isn't one other person there to pull ye on your crap.Razorfist would destroy Colin and have the other two for desert 😂
@@brenbird475 One who understands where the backlash is coming from, instead of saying "I don't get it" over and over again. Maybe then there could, maybe, be some understanding shared. At the very least it would make the podcast more interesting.
Chris is probably the reason for no opposing view's,he likes sneering into the mic at more right wing takes.. put a well informed differing opinion in there with chris and he wouldn't even show up, Colin lets him waffle about anything and make no sense, love to see someone straight up disagree and ask for citations off him or some kind of evidence for his lunatic takes@@Takadox
@@TTx04xCOBRA heck yeah, I myself identify as Non-Buy-Nary y'know I'm cool on smug quirky characters that just copy/paste each others personalities. I hope you gift the second copy to a friend and tell them to thank me.
No you simply wait until they actually show you something to judge. We know next to nothing about this game. 2 years ago, ppl would simply go "hmmm" then move the fuck on. Not go on rants about shit you don't know. Or attack studios, or even ppl. It's becoming like a cult or something. It's really damn weird.
The arrogance from these guys at times, they aren't journalists, they are influences, that's it, they have connections to people in playstation's studios, make up your own mind about what you like or don't, they like so many think they are special, based on nothing except them believing it!
Intergalactic just didn't look very good for a variety of reasons. The Witcher 4 looked substantially better in comparison (and the numbers back that up) despite still having an actual loud/deranged minority speak out against it.. Colin and co. are increasingly out of touch on this specific issue. Maybe they have "anti-woke derangement syndrome" and are seemingly incapable of understanding why even a "normal " gamer is starting to get sick of certain tropes being used in modern games. I enjoy their discussions on 99% of topics on this show but they seem to have lost the plot on this one thing. I'd also like to add that the whole "people who disagree with me are just terminally online losers" is part of the reason that some people are starting to be unable to see the nuance on this stuff.
@ besides the fact your comment is just being purposefully dense, you are wrong. W4 was pre-rendered but not “CGI.” It was made in-engine with in-game models and assets on what is likely a 5090. That is roughly what the game will look like on high end PCs. As someone who’s played Hellblade 2 on a 4090 that isn’t surprising at all. Regardless, both trailers were made to give a general idea of the game and communicate its aesthetic and atmosphere to players. One clearly was received much better than the other in doing so.
@ visually? 100% - that’s roughly what it will look like. Those were in-game models and assets. It isn’t 2007 anymore, you’ll need a $3k+ PC for it to look like that, but that’s the ballpark of what future UE5 games will look like. As I said, that was only marginally better than Hellblade on a 4090 in most areas.
Don't you think it might be that The Witcher is part of an established franchise, with the last being a monumental success, and one being a new IP, so many people who don't know about who made TLOU or Uncharted, don't know they're making this game? It's a silly comparison to make. Of course a sequel to a beloved game will gather more attention than a new IP. I thought that would be self explanatory.
Neil Druckman is not woke? I don't know him. I do know he had Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant some years back. I do know he certainly makes woke games, where pregnant doctors are cleared for combat runs in a post apocalyptic survivors group because girl bosses be girl bossing. I don't know that, but I suspect ND cannot see how unsympathetic their new characters are because disliking somebody with that many DEI-checkmarks is illegal in their mind. I hope Intergalactic is good. But their main character had a not the best or most endearing introduction. Did I immediately wanna go on an adventure with Nathan Drake? Hell yeah! With Joel? You bet. With Chloe? Sure! With Nadine? No. With Ellie? Still yes, bit it turned out f*ed. With Jordan? No. There is much marketing to come, but as of now, no.
@@victory7763No, a visit from Anita is not the be all end all criteria for woke productions in my book. Is this really what you got from reading my comment?
Oh word? Tell that to *all of the most popular games today* It’s cute that you slugs only ever bring up those three games, meanwhile the entire landscape of gaming has moved on past you weirdos. It’s never going back to what you want. Move on or fuck off.
Joel had it coming. Years of being a hunter and his murder of an entire hospital staff and security, and that’s his just desserts. That people didn’t see it coming is baffling.
@@Darkjediiii Yes. All of his history considered, the fact that he saves Abby, then follows her back to her place and walks into a room full of people he doesn’t know and stands in the middle of them saying ‘haha I’m Joel’ is f u c k i n g r e t a r d e d and should be criticized, among so many other issues the game has 💁🏼♂️
That’s fine but I think the point they make in the episode is that’s a pretty petty reason not to like Neil, cuz you didn’t like his story? Then piss off and find a story you do like and shut up about this one.
Why does Colin act like there aren't real criticisms with NaughtyDog? Stop focusing on the morons on the internet who just moan about women and "wOkE". TLOU2's story and writing is piss poor compared to the 1st. The gameplay is underrated though which is a shame. That's not even mentioning how other PS studios have caught up to ND too. They aren't the main draw as they used to be in the PS3 generation.
I spent half if not less time with characters like Tess, Sam, Henry, Bill, David, Riley and care more about them than Owen, Mel, Dina, Jesse, Manny, Abby etc. I get the idea but the execution didn't work for me and I found the plot bloated and poorly paced. Just having a big decision at the start about Joel or making you play as Abby didn't really make/break the game for me, the hours after just weren't that great story wise imo. The world also seems less brutal than the one built on in the 1st game. I'm interested to see if the format works better in TV show though. To each their own but I wish Colin would focus on these criticisms and other reasonable ones rather than just the online mob of unfuckable incels.
It sucks that we will never get an unbiased take from Colin regarding Naughty Dog. #1 defender. I mean look at the thumbnail. I would assume people have more of a problem with the Intergalactic MC looking ugly rather than being a woman. Stellar Blade has a female MC that. I wonder if everyone that hates Eve loves "Jordan" and Vice Versa. Intergalactic had a horrible first impression but no gameplay yet so we shall see if it's a flop.
To me the problem is that she looks like a generic bald headed "badass" with an attitude. Now, maybe there are a lot of things we don´t know from the trailer and end up loving the character, but that reveal trailer was their oportunity to show us what it was all about and it came across, to me, as an unlikable character.
"I would assume people have more of a problem with the Intergalactic MC looking ugly rather than being a woman." That's not much better. You don't have to be biased to not care about a character not existing to be jacked off to. People have no shame anymore
Go ahead and pin this comment and call me out if I'm wrong. Intergalatic will receive 8+ out of 10's across the board from Games Media but it will be Naughty Dogs worst selling game of the modern era PS3 and later excluding Uncharted 1. It will fail to meet any serious sales expectation and it's possible it loses money. It will be universally panned like Concord by user reviews. How do I know this? Because we have games like Dragon Age Veilguard as the most recent example showing exactly why these games fail. There is not one game, nor even movie release to be frank that has reached critical acclaim that had these traits. Not a one. This is also Neil Druckmans first game where its all his. TLOU was my game of the generation and it was lead by Bruce Straley, not Neil Druckman. Neil had A LOT of input, but Bruce was Vince McMahon to Neils Vince Russo during the attitude era in WWE prior to Vince Russo leaving and going to WCW to put that company out of business. McMahon took 1000 bad ideas and threw them away and took the 2 or 3 good ones and made them his own. TLOU Part 2 was ruined by Neil, the hosts can downplay it to just being chuds complaining. I love Colin and these guys, I really do. But take the blinders off and go read reddit threads where it's broken down in detail. Colin defends Neil to epic proportions which is fine, but Neil was never the Director and the buck never stopped with him. It did with TLOU Part 2 and it was panned by user reviews. What other ND game in their history had that happen? Who is still at ND that actually made them ND? Why did they leave? Let's see how this game plays out because: This will be all on Neil.
@@backtakegrnn2714 Druckman did not have final say even with the story on TLOU 1. He wanted to kill Joel in TLOU 1 too. TLOU has sold almost 20 million, TLOU 2 has sold 10 which under performed by a lot.
Does anybody know what Chris does for a living? He's always tired, acts like a teenager, and doesn't have any meaningful contributions to conversations. Maybe Colin owns him something and has to keep him around.
2:37:46 I strongly disagree with him here. I think most people see a game, think "this looks fun", then spend a few minutes on their phone to check the reviews before buying it because it doesn't cost any money to check reviews. Whereas, buying something without checking reviews is risky.
I dont mind the biasis held by the hosts but its becoming a rather repetitive echo chamber. Niel Druckman is perfect, TLOU is the greatest ever, Halo TV, haha Dustin plays anime games... cmon guys I found it especially hilarious when responding to the write in regarding Sony game leads all shifting to female and the retort was 'no they arent only these few examples...' to then list almost every long standing franchise. Its not about Stellar Blade vs Interstellar. Its about Black Littlle Mermaid. The issue isnt the gender or race being represented, it's replacing existing beloved characters to do so. Anyway, hope Patreon subs are saying the same coz i dont believe youtube comments get read. Although, Chris hasnt described his diet or sleeping habits lately...
The "subvert expectation" decision of TLOU 2 isn't bold, it's just dumb. Abby's character is lame and we had to play with her for half the game. I've only played that game once which was when it came out and never again since, whereas I still replay TLOU 1 occasionally and I just got a ps5 with the remastered part 1 and am actually excited to play it. I could not care less about 2
Its true to some extent that there is derangement. Is it also true that this comes off as a somewhat empty echo chamber of defensiveness towards Sony games and Friends? Yes. Also, are we at the point where we wonder what the hell does Chris truly offer other than 'personality' yet? Intergalactic looks generic and derivative as all hell. People are allowed say this just based on what they have seen so far. Who didnt eye-roll when the girl pops in the CD? You're a decade too late for the whole pop space opera sci-fi theme, ND.
I find it funny. Chris uses arguments that work against him to prove his point. No one hated mirror's edge or tomb raider, because it's not just about playing as a woman. It's like the crew is intentionally making themselves stupid so they don't have to change their mind and understand the perspective of people who are upset.
The total inability to recognize the natural human preference for beauty over ugliness is astounding. Yes, many people prefer to role play as physically appealing fictional video game characters. If you have transcended these mortal flesh and blood desires, congratulations. But your failure to understand that you are an outlier is moronic. ff16 would have been a less enjoyable experience if Clive's character model were the elephant man. Him being cool and physically appealing absolutely contributed positively to the game. Japanese developers understand this. Western devs increasingly do not.
@JoltinJoe the elephant man serves here as the most extreme, objective example of ugliness possible to underscore the point described earlier in the comment. I find it difficult to believe you don't understand how examples work.
@@lichtsa It is in the eye of the beholder, of course. And if you're curious about the eyes of most beholders, check out the like/dislike ratio on that teaser trailer.
And before someone goes: well maybe he just doesnt like those games made recently... yeah and maybe we arnt exactly "amazed" by the last of us two AND naughty dogs just releasing remasters for the last of us games.
You guys’ take on intergalactic is kind of showing that you’re kind of losing touch with “norma”l gamers … look at suicide squad, veil guard, the new assassins creed, that Sony game that just lost $200m (can’t even remember the name now cause it’s already irrelevant)
You’re no different from the hardcore feminists of the 2010s. Constantly crying and offended every time a new piece of media comes out. Obsessed with analyzing media and gender. Stop being so sensitive.
Can't believe Chris cited Suicide Squad as an example of a "successful" game that faced similar backlash. These people have completely lost the plot. If anything the LSM crew are the ones with anti-Naughty Dog derangement syndrome.
I miss the Colin from 7 years ago, when his performance of being a moderate logical dude was better. He's a woke supporter placating as a moderate. Lame ass.
Look at the people who he has surrounded himself with and you'll realise all his talk about games media being a left wing bubble and there being no space for anyone on the right has happened here also - only he's the one responsible.
Correction: Colin ain't woke, he just likes to protect his personal and maybe future business venture with his very very good friend Mr.Cuckman! The COPE and Denial is just a bonus in this episode!
@@redbargems355 - Same here. He definitely isn't conserving video games...he applauds every time they're destroyed by activists and lashes out on anyone who has a problem with it.
At first I was pumped about the ending Naughty Dog conversation, but much like the infamous 2-part TLOU2 spoilercast, lots of words were said yet nothing was said at all.
I know it's insane. He was the Director on TLOU. Full Stop. The only titles Neil had full control over was TLOU Part II and now this. Sheer coincidence I'm sure that these two games have HUGE fan blowback.
@@nextjinThat is factual not true. Neil isn't the sole director on TLoU2. Three people are listed as Directors on the game. Stop spreading misinformation just to feed your anger.
@@AnthonyMcNeil Go read interviews and watch the making ofs. Then answer this question: Who had final say on all matters in TLOU Part I and who had final say on all matters in TLOU Part II? Don't pawn off semantics as an excuse for Druckman and blame the hate/backlash on Margenau and Newman because they clearly wouldn't tell Druckman no. Straley did, Straley is the reason Joel even survived the first game.
@@idakev it doesn’t matter what his title was, my original point stands. He only had ultimate responsibility for TLOU 2 and now this game and both have gotten brutal customer blowback and sales are trending down. That’s not a coincidence. For TLOU Part 1, Bruce had final say and prevented Neil from going down this insane path.
People are not upset because it's another game as a woman. They're upset because it's another masculine woman! And one who comes off completely cringe, she doesn't know how to use a head buzzer and slurps her soda while someone else is trying to talk. Whether that was a man or a woman doing it, that would be cringe and annoying. Then talk about the product placement. It's hard to find anything to like about the trailer, and that's what people are unhappy about. Pretending people are upset about the game because it's a woman or simply because it's naughty dog, is either intellectually dishonest or just pure ignorant. Furthermore, when you think about it, they tried to have her using the buzzer to make her look tough and cool and ironically she's using it wrong because the people who are writing her don't know what it means to be tough and cool. So this just tells me that the only part of the game that can end up well is the gameplay itself, I have no hopes for the story or characters because the writers are apparently cringe and woke. And I feel like if Colin wasn't friends with Neil, the whole panel would be more likely to realize and admit this. They would have been better off not bringing up the subject, Colin is obviously too close to Neil to admit any of the faults of naughty dog or specifically this game. This is equivalent to the thing Colin has complained about in the past, games journalists reviewing games for a certain studio and then going to work for that studio. Might not be in the same lane but it's driving right next to it.
I didnt think she was cringe at all. I liked the trailer a lot actually (weird product placement aside). There is a large portion of the vocal internet that think every game HAS to appeal to them for some reason? There are tons of games that dont appeal to me visually and stuff, but I dont go around talking about it. I just move on and play the things I like.
@MrPanncakes to each their own. I think people go too far on both sides. I remember when people were calling WatchDogs 2 cringe and woke but that's my favorite game and nothing about it is woke or cringe. I just found the slurping sodapop over the lady talking was a childish cringe that was supposed to come off like some cool Nathan Drake moment but it would have been eye rolling for me, man or women.
You could easily say the exact same thing about Han Solo!!! He was arrogant as hell!!! We all know you're mad because the main character isn't making your pee pee happy!!!
@@cammoses4464 just like Kinda Funny huh? How ironic 😂. I've already cancelled my Patreon a few weeks ago so it's all good. I'm done supporting the show till there's some diversity of thought.
@@sam805236they disagree on tons of topics hahaha just cause they agree on one doesn’t make it an echo chamber. You’ll be a long time waiting if you’re waiting for 3 people to disagree on every single topic 😂
This episode of Three Midwits at the Strawman Factory was extra cringe. It's embarrassing that even with all three of you pitching in, you can't carry this Naughty Dog charade to its conclusion. Even when handpicking the few details around the Last of Us 2 leaks and skipping over how awfully Naughty Dog handled that. How they used corporate muscle and systematically went after peoples livelihoods just for talking about the leaks was oddly completely omitted once again when talking about why people have problems with ND and Druckmann. Colin then put on his terrible logic cap, does a thinking and concludes; It's racism, clearly. This level of dishonesty is wild to see, even from Colin. But keep talking down to your audience, it has worked so well every time others have tried it.
The fact that you guys are admitting that Intergalactic will sell less than prior ND games is an admittance that you aren’t impressed with what you have seen
@@honchoreckless4180 I’ve never called you or anyone else a “loud minority” nor am I excited for intergalactic so I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish with your straw man argument lol
@@honchoreckless4180 I’ve never called you or anyone else a “loud minority” nor am I excited for intergalactic so I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish with your straw man argument lol
Colin, can you help me understand when one should value games journalists' opinions? In your words it seems like they should be ignored most of the time, unless they happen to praise TLOU Part 2.
Also when they say good things about intergalactic especially when they will start saying “this has never been done before” even though we have seen this before a million times
He's not telling you to value the opinion of the game journalist. He likes the last of us part 2 not because game journalist like it but because he likes it. Collins opinion has always been form your own opinion divorced from critics and the gaming community mob.
I find the entire conversation about Intergalactic a waste of everybody's time. Pretends the game is happening in a vacuum and can't understand why the 100th game in the last 12 months, with THE MESSAGE on the forefront, is getting a pushback or selling poorly. "Oh being geh is woke now hAhAHhAH". We can have 10 games like Concord, which was the pure juice of propaganda, failing miserably and the issue will be gameplay, it's a new IP, it wasn't F2P, the genre is played out, the characters are boring or absolutely ANYTHING but, the point of these conversations.
Why did Dragon Quest do somersaults around body type A/B when they address boys/girls armor in game? Why did Ragnarok race swap a character from Nordic mythology? Why did Veilguard use 2024 slangs in an medieval/fantasy setting? Why do we always NEED to bring all the luggage from the past decade to make a point when we are already over the "it's not happening, it's just your imagination" phase? The only comment that added anything meaningful to the conversation was this, 2:46:49. It was honest, it was the truth and probably what is really happening inside these studios.
I find some Neil Druckmann memes funny but, they're not trying to be funny, they're just trying to be mean for the sake of it. He wanted to be the face of the studio and his work should be criticized but, the personal comments are not my thing.
So I’m curious.. what’s “THE MESSAGE”?
There no way sci-fi is played out lol your telling me you’ve played a bunch of games that look like this? Stop please.
Remember when journalist said "everything is political" to defend when people got mad at certain games. Well it seems the horseshoe has wrapped around so much that now gamers have the same opinion, instead to justify the opposite.
It sounds like it is a you problem. This game looks like Dark souls. And yes I am tired of games like that too but I will probably be ready for this game in a few years.
@@itzMarcMan”the message” is pushing unconventional forms of lifestyle on the broader public. Simplest way to explain it.
‘The message on the forefront’ LMAO. ND release innocuous trailer of their new sci fi franchise which shows basically nothing other than what aesthetic they’re going for. Brain rotted right wing culture warriors: THIS IS WOKENESS GONE MAD
It's funny to see the three boys explaining that a female protagonist or a male one shouldn't change anything, yet there is a clear push for it and studios clearly have numbers to back their claim for forcing so much inclusion and representation in games.
As for myself I don't really mind the gender of my protagonist, but like Colin often says, don't get mad when we notice.
If you don't care about Playstation Studios games only having female protagonists and are confused that others aren't into it, that's fine but you should accept their preference. Heck, the number one argument I see for the inclusion of more female protagonists in games is that it makes women feel more welcome, because they don't relate to the standard herotype. Well, obviously the inverse is also going to be true, dudes aren't aren't going to be drawn to playing as women who are LGBT (Aloy & Ellie) - and that's probably why they assumed the Intergalatic protag will also be, it's basic pattern recognition.
'diversity fatigue' is a valid criticism IMO, because like Dustin said, "geez, another character like this?" is a common sentiment, and statistics show men are still the primary consumers of these types of games, they're the core audience. The reactionary pendulum has swung way too far one way, where the traditional male protagonist is now uncommon in AAA. I'd say it's the main audience that listens to this very podcast, and if THAT's who you were referring to when you said you want to 'clean up this community' then you're going to face some backlash.
Nailed it.
Thank you
Lmao you are such a baby
Brother we are HUMAN, the word diversity around this context shouldn't even be a thing but over thousands & thousands of years, we have somehow separated ourselves from others because of gender or colors. Why can't we just relate to someone because theyre human, why do they have to look a certain way.
@@JordySnytbh the only baby I see here is you with your immature comment
I think Colin's general disconnect from the grander culture, while being useful in forming some opinions about the industry, is clearly showing itself to be a double edged sword at this point. You dont need to agree with the hate, but its becoming clear that there's not a great understanding of where the hate stems from. Unfortunately this episode came across overly dismissive. I hope this comment section leads the crew to at least try a little harder to understand.
You'd be surprised to find out that the grander culture doesn't really care. This is just sides you're seeing.
You guys must-at some level-understand people's preference for aesthetics. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Hollywood actors are beautiful. It is not a coincidence that male and female leads are generally good-looking and gender-confirming. To think it wouldn't apply to games is naive.
There are many legitimate critiques of Naughty Dog regarding its story, characters, pacing, etc. Just as there are many issues you (Colin) have with The Last Jedi that are not unfounded, similar issues can exist on games you love.
Also, I implore you to stop looking or acknowledging the most bad faith takes out there. These takes typically lack nuance and represent a more collective frustration than an actual coherent point. Grumzz is a symptom, not a cure. He is echoing what some people are feeling and badly articulating these points for clout.
One final note- please don't police arguments unless it's explicitly offensive. Part of the fun of game discussions is heated back and forth. It's disappointing if a monoculture of "best friends" (who coincidentally all repeat the same points) arose.
So you actually follow Grumzz which is cringe in itself and all you care about is that you can't jerk off to the lady in Intergalectic.
Very well said. At least Dustin tried to be a devil's advocate instead of Chris who just blindly agrees with Colin 90% of the time lol
The funny thing about The Last Jedi (in how Dustin brought it up as an example of bad writing for Luke) is that he is doing precisely what he is accusing others of doing with TLOU pt. 2. Dustin couldn't handle Rian Johnson's "bold" decisions. Luke is a stubborn and whiney kid for most of the OG trilogy, watch it again if you think otherwise. His character in TLJ is totally in line with his actions in the previous trilogy, but I totally get why some fanboys didn't like it.
Not being able to see that irony is a big part of the "problem" here.
@Epiousios18 "His character in TLJ is totally in line with the previous trilogy"
Wow. Hard disagree on this one. Even Mark Hamil himself said Luke's motivations in TLJ made no sense.
I have literally not heard of one legit criticism of tlou2 that isn't extremely loaded or reduced to "too woke." There are also actors all the time who aren't traditionally attractive like Steve Buscemi, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Melissa McCarthy who are amazing at what they do and people like watching them. So to say that games NEEDS anime-esque big titty waifu characters is a terrible argument and laughable. Imagine getting mad at a game because you can't get a boner from watching the female lead. How about you just don't play it? But people take it a step further and spend all their time actively hating the game with deranged comments.
Colin is to Naughty Dog what he thinks Sonic fans are to Sonic: bending over backwards to faun over mediocre games whose novelty ran out almost 20 years ago (Uncharted came out 2007 right?)
Man this was a tough listen. A fan of LSM for a couple years now and too see how much of a echo chamber this show is, is pretty crazy.
If a topic has this much discourse there has to be other sides of the coin but they just agree with each other for a hour on base level things
After finishing this was even worst that i imagined. These guys have are 100% Sony fanboys and can’t even consider critiquing the fact that there are no male lead characters in a male dominated medium. Very weird for a platform that prides them self on NOT being fanboys
There’s plenty of male leads in video games. Why does 1 game not having one mean anything to you? I love hot men leads myself, but I don’t cry when I don’t get that here and there.
Sounds like you are the echo chamber person coming at this in a very disingenuous and heavily biased way.
@@deez8060what are you talking about? There are FAR more male leads in games than women. You’re talking about echo chambers but regurgitating baseless nonsense.
@@colinmitchell7395 - Ellie in TLOU P2, Selene in Returnal, Aloy in Horizon, Atsu in Ghost of Yotei, Jordan in Intergalactic, Rivet in R&C. Cassie Drake likely to take over Uncharted. Thrúd taking Thor's hammer in GoW:R. We're just pointing out an obvious ideology push away from male leads, no one is "crying".
Man you really need to get someone on the show to represent the other side of the "woke" thing Colin. You're normally so good at this sort of thing, not sure why you seem to be short-circuiting on this particular issue. Get someone like Legendary Drops or Critical Drinker on the show. Both are intelligent and can have a nuanced discussion on the issue.
😂😂😂
@@kpdrrn32 you know someone is low IQ when they spam emotes
nice try Chris I actually listen to your other podcasts and heard your problems with removing the dislike button and its even more important now since AI science channels are popping up with disinformation. This is the first SS episode I've heard such dishonesty from the whole table and I'm a female supporter but my god was this episode just skipping over ppls legitimate criticisms of ND.
Wow, good job on being a "female supporter". You deserve a round of applause. lol, who the hell talks like that?
Are you telling me that Chris changed his stance to fit a narrative?! Shocking
Chris blows
"Legitimate criticisms"
Wah wah waaaahing because the main character in a videogame isn't generic white guy #9,244,242,111,407 isn't "legitimate" by any measure.
The game hasn't come out and incels are crying about how woke it is. How is that legitimate?
If you want gaming to remain whites-only then just say that. Instead of expressing fake concern over nothing, just say that you don't want to see those pesky minorities in your games. Just be honest.
What are the legitimate criticisms? I've asked all over the internet and nobody can give me a straight answer.
What is Chris talking about when it comes to sales? Sui-cide squad - KTJL was responsible for over 200 million dollar loss for Warner Bros. It DIDN'T sell well. Not even remotely close.
He is saying that Saints Row did better than they thought it would? Where? It sold so poorly that they closed the studio within months. Where is he pulling the sales data from? He thinks if a game charts on NPD/Circana list in its month of release, it sold well. It's laughable!
Sacred Symbols for a very long time has been a podcast where hosts say factually wrong things with such confidence that people who don't know much would take them at face value and accept these factually incorrect statements as truth. And I am not even gonna go into the Sony fanboyism, Naughty Dog fanboy Syndrome, and so on.
Chris is becoming the absolute worst for just spouting completely incorrect data because he feels he needs to have something to say when Colin asks him for 'his thoughts'. Guy needs to either do more research before shooting off at the mouth or have the stones to say 'i don't know' or 'I have nothing to say about this' when it comes his turn to chime in on a topic.
Yeah when he said Saints Row sold well, I was thinking: " if that were true their studio wouldnt of shut down my guy😅"
@@GamesNosh Anyone who talks for a living will eventually break their own brain. Especially if they make more than the average doctor. It's a fake job where someone wins the lottery of talking for a living and they all will get lazy, egotistical and lose their mind. The average steam review page for a random game, written by a slew of "nobodies" has more insight than any talking head idiot.
@@GamesNosh Exactly. Tell me ONCE when Chris himself brought out some data or research on this podcast. Chris just shows up to the podcast and treats this as free easy money making job. It has always been Colin saying whatever. And Chris going - That's wild to me.
Trying to get Chris’s reddit rotted brain to understand this will be a tough one
So all citicism of the game, except for that "Character dying", is ignored.
Just all a bunch of woke-hating whiners, huh?!
Wow, the cope is strong this episode, that was really embarassing to watch,
the only thing that could have made this worse if Neil Druckmann, had walked in,
asking if somebody needed something to drink, whilst simping for Naughty Dog.
You missed the entire point of the conversation.
@@sunsetsoda5418 he did not listen at all
Did you even watch the video. Dustin en Chris have a lot criticism of TLOU2. But we hardly ever get to have that conversation, because people build their criticism of the game around a story beat they did not like.
Dude just go back to watch Asmongold.
@@SHaze187 wow you're triggered
3:26:56 Yes, Dustin. That's the perfect example proving that it has nothing to do with being anti-women or sexist. Just like Asmon pointed out, when it's a male main character, you don't want to play as a fat neckbeard wearing a fedora, you want to play as Clive. When it's a woman, people want to play as a woman that is sexy and cool, like Eve, 2b, Tifa, etc., not some cringe, current year California value-having see you next Tuesday. The Eastern developers understand this to a T, the Western developers actively fight against it, and that's why we have this massive dichotomy developing. You guys agree with it too, you just don't want to admit it because it's people that you don't like personally ("grifters") making the point. Just look at your 2024 wrap-ups, they were basically 100% Eastern-developed games.
"California values". You saw all of ten minutes of trailer footage and you've already made a value judgement of the character based on a hairstyle and wardrobe. Get a grip.
they’re a few podcasts away from sounding like kind of funny lol
@@LzyArt all you saw was a hairstyle and wardrobe, most of us saw an arrogant, close-minded, smug individual with zero charisma.
@@genericallyacceptedhow is she close minded? Please explain.
@@dtanobo did she listen to any of the risks involved in heading towards the planet? Or did she grab an empty cup of soda and fruitlessly try to drink the remnants while looking at the monitor with an expression that screams, "I'm not going to listen to you,"?
2:39:33 Lol at Chris saying that adding the UA-cam dislike button back is “terminally online” as if that wasn’t a feature for 15 years before UA-cam removed it
I think you are missing the point of what he was saying. To care enough about it to go back and add it in is another level of UA-camness that the majority of UA-cam viewers simply don’t have in them.
@@MitchellMiller1 I would agree if UA-cam never had a dislike button for most of its life and then adding one now would be weird, but adding back a popular feature isn’t that crazy imo. Plus, I think its usually a good tool to see the general consensus on things good or bad
@@MitchellMiller1 I think the fact that people defend that it was removed says more then anything wanting it back would say. The reality is: It's not toxic gamers that is killing devs like Naughty Dog, it's the toxic positivity in those dev studios. They have a culture where every action and choice they make must be viewed as correct and anyone that dislikes their actions is a hater and some form of an -ist so they just push forward regardless of what the customers are saying.
@@BrandonHeat243 Can you give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of a studio as prolific as Naughty Dog that was "killed" by toxic positivity? Not even Naughty Dog is dying, so I don't even know what you are talking about. And so help me if you try to use Bungie as your example. XD
@@MitchellMiller1 I was thinking specifically of Ubisoft with my comment. And it's undeniable. Look at the AC Shadows stuff. Making the MC of AC Japan a brother was an objectively bad decision. It has zero precedent in the series and was clearly just a political stunt. And how has Ubisoft reacted? They doubled down and called everyone that didn't like that clearly awful decision an -ist. And Naughty Dog isn't dying yet because they haven't released a new game in 4 years. Can't fail if you don't have any products out that can fail.
Also, stop with the automatic Naughty Dog defense. Understand why people don't have automatic deference for based TLOUP2, each game is going to sell less copies compared to the previous one leaks or not.
I hated TLOU2, vehemently disliked the story. But to get this upset over it is asinine. It's a video game. The way people are acting, you'd think Druckmann personally shot their dog.
@@nat040496Why are you upset over people being upset?
@@EvernhamNo9 it’s fine to dislike it, but people are taking it too far.
It is kind of insane that, with how much time this podcast has devoted to talking about The Last of Us 2 over the years, I literally don't think I've EVER heard you address any of the actual criticisms people have with the game. Like, you all genuinely seem to think that the only problem people have is the fact that the "big thing" in the game happened. None of you even seem to be aware of the numerous other problems people have raised and have been discussing ad nauseam for half a decade. I can't tell if it's because you're just so far deep in an echo chamber that you genuinely don't know about any of this discourse, or if you are aware and you're actively choosing to pretend there's nothing to see here, because it's far easier to just shrug it off as crybabies on the internet than to actually contend with any real points. I can handle disagreements on pieces of media, what I can't handle is sheer denial of the reality of discourse surrounding said media. A similar thing happened with The Last Jedi. Tons of people insisted there was nothing to be discussed, that the movie was great and no real fan had any problems, and that anyone that complained was just a racist troll that was mad a purpled-haired chick talked down to a dude in movie, even though there were literally probably THOUSANDS of hours of people discussing the flaws with the writing, all there for anyone to search up, digest, and even retort. Same thing applies here. But no, much smoother to just write it off as retards that didn't play the game, instead of people like myself, which are genuine fans of the first game that were let down by several writing choices throughout the second game.
1000% ^this
This is what infuriates me. I don't mind Colin loving TLoU 2, nor do I need someone with my opinions to be on the show, necessarily. But to consistently act for four years as if there is _no_ valid criticism of the game is bonkers. I can't tell at this point if they're being dishonest or just ignorant.
Lol
No Nintendo, Xbox or PC dev can create a total package game that's even half as good as TLOU 2. Focus on that fact. Even if it isn't seen as good as the 1st ND is still top choice to be considered best studio in the biz. And GTA 5's story wasn't that good.
@@east00 This is an absolutely insane take that tells me you're also in a bubble. You can think that, but literally millions of people would beg to differ. It's not a "fact". Keep telling yourself it's objectively brilliant, and we'll keep ignoring it and playing better games.
If Chris, Dustin and Colin can’t understand the Intergalactic hate, they won’t understand the NaughtyDog/Neil Druckman hate. By Colin calling it “derangement”.. he’s already biased and calling the dislike unwarranted. and no.. it’s not just about Joel dying, that has a role to play in it.
The “undeniable quality of their games” was revelant in 2016 with Uncharted 4, and even that was met with a background of deep development issues with them pushing out Amy Hennig and Neil rising to a more prodominent role in the studio. One thing that was noted with Uncharted 4 was Nadine. She was the “strong, black woman” in the game that was undeniably put there in response to Neil’s CLEAR feministic views about women characters in video games and how they are portrayed in games, including Anita Sarkasian working on projects and Neil working on projects with her.
Uncharted Lost Legacy wasn’t a bad game, although it did have 2 female leads.. I don’t think people really cared or noticed. They were already established characters and they played well off of eachother. Nothing seems “in your face” politically.
The rollout leading up to TLOU2 was great. The teaser trailers/gameplay trailers/tv spots were all great, the interviews about it were great. Neil saying, “We’ll do right by you” set well with the community. The last trailer with Joel appearing at the end put to bed that everyone’s fear that Joel was just dead throughout the game. It meant Joel would have a more active role in the story.
Fast forward and the leaks come out the came how Joel dies 2-3 hours into the beginning of the game (telling us that trailer was false advertisement). . Not to mention all the diffrent reviews not including the second half of the game with Abby. and Sony striking channels who talked about the spoilers. We have a character who looks trans (we know she is a woman).. but she resembles Neil’s idea of what strong women look like. There are many story and writing elements (not just Joel’s death).. that are poorly handled, and we have the ending of the game.. which makes very little sense.
Afterwards we have voice actors like Troy and developers like Druckman coming out calling people who dislike the game bigots, racists and transphobes, essentially dismissing all criticism that wasn’t just about Abby looking like a trans character.
All while this is happening, Disney is making decisions in movies and tv shows to push more left leaning content. Fast foward to 2022-2024. We have female lead games with bad writing, woke”/DEI agendas. Dustin is right to a degree that part of the issue is the traditional male protagonist archetype is being burnt to the ground. We see saw this with Suidicde Squad KTJL.. We have terrible dialogue ridden Forespoken.. we have Sweet Baby Inc causing issue with game companies. We have ND cancelling Factions 2, and putting out what seems like 5 different remakes/remasters of the same game. Intergalatic The Hereitic Prophet comes out with this asian bald woman with a shit eating grin personality while sucking on a straw with another female character who sounds like she smokes with an eyepatch and fans are just tired of it. Neil has turned into someone who i think would rather make movies and he thinks he’s a better writer than what he actually is.
Have you always hated false advertisement in trailers?
@@Jjcbgoat Sure, especially if it goes to to the level of making you believe a character would be alive, and an active part of the story when in actually he wasn’t. they literally swapped the Joel character for Jesse in the scene. It was close to release too. .so it wasn’t just an old trailer.... the story was already finished at that point in development. The misleading element was intentional to get people to buy the game.
@ fair enough
You completely lose me with the whole “trans character” stuff. Neil still sucks for many reasons tho.
@@colinmitchell7395lmao what?
3:22:00 colin is completely missing the point here. Its about the FORCED nature of whats happening in the industry. Of course we dont actually care about the gender of pur heroes in a vacuum. But when you look at the industry as a whole ot is changing for the worse. #toxicpositivity
These guys dont interact with regular people much anymore. And its showing. Its not a bald woman that concerns gamers. But a future chic whos mad about trump winning, is concerning when people dont want political crap pushed in their leisure time. Its not coincidental the space chic is shaving her head in the open introduction to the character. Thats 100% intentional. And the creators of the game are absolutely on baord. You dont turn off your comments to your brand new title when your excited to show off your work. You invite feedback, unless your intentionally doing something nefarious.
Okay, what's political about the game? Seriously. What does the trailer imply politically?
Colin doesn't leave his house anymore and Chris is trapped in his liberal bubble. Completly detached from the community they're supposed to be talking to.
@@GamesNosh I think they just assume the community isn't filled with nut jobs
@@dtanoboyour right. People should just submit and stop asking questions. Cuz that's crazy
@@dtanoboooooo..... you didn't read my whole statement. Otherwise you would have understood what I was saying.
I can't believe that at this point even Jaffe questions Neil's judgement on the decision of the main character when you have hundreds of millions of dollars riding in a project like this, and Colin/Chris can't comprehend the reaction towards it, I feel Dustin understands this but seems to have no backbone to disagree with Colin on this.
You guys need to start acknowledging the CONTEXT under what these decisions are being made. No one was hating on female characters or political messaging in the past because there was not a perceived trend on lefty US politics influencing decisions being made by game developers, hell most of the classic survival horror games genre had female protagonists and no one was complaining back then.
With the current political polarization in the US (obviously a ton of people disagree vehemently to progressive politics in the US, even more so in the rest of the world), with the Playstation HQ moving to California, every or most western developers having a DEI department in their company, which is obviously a lefty political activist department most likely the root cause of the "Toxic positivity" mindset (self censorship of criticizing anything progressive), and with a proven trend in the last several years that game devs can't stop themselves from injecting their political views into their games, I find it baffling at this point you won't understand the response these games are receiving. Yes a lot of times it goes overboard and bad actors exist, which affects games that don't deserve this (ex. the backlash against Angela in Silent Hill 2, pretty good remake btw).
It is not a secret people don't wanna pay money to be preached at by condescending people making these decisions, the Last of Us part 2 sold bad in your opinion, but I bet half of the sales were because of part's 1 success, so it would've sold even worse. I've been playing in playstation since the ps1 era, and really am starting to resent California's influence burning all the good will that the PS4 created, PS5 owes most of it's success on the goodwill the predecessor made, I wish they had never made that decision to move to the US and allow US politics to infect them. With how much resentment towards Sony there currently is I feel that Steam is sensing this and will throw their hat in the console market, Steam has a ton of good will from it's users, it may or it may not become a problem for Sony, but one thing is to be sure, if they offer anything remotely comparable I feel the overwhelming narrative online will be of support of Steam over PS.
Anyhow Idk I feel dissapointed you guys won't even acknowledge the obvious, I like the podcast and the personalities but your opinions regarding this are the opposite of valuable, which might color the way I hear your other arguments.
All of that is great (and a lot of what you said is wrong.. I don’t think you know what real progressive politics even are.. hint.. it’s not “DEI” or “ID-pol”) but let me stop you right there:
None of what you said has anything to do with the ND trailer. There’s nothing wrong with the trailer.
@@user-dj9iu2et3ryou're right. It has everything to do with the idealogy behind making another androgynous main character.
@@user-dj9iu2et3rYou are absolutely dead wrong.
Excluding all of the bad faith arguments, last of us 2 and joker 2 are divisive for their content intentionally by the creators who even admit it. So saying that everyone who doesn’t like a story for how the story plays out is either wrong or just too dumb to comprehend is pretentious. Collin has always been respected for his honest views and advocating to vote with your wallet, but on one of the last episodes he flips by telling us to ignore bad advertising or how a game looks and to step out of our comfort zone and buy the game or we can’t have an opinion on it.
You can't have an opinion worth anything on a 4 minute teaser trailer that didn't feature gameplay. Also, if we're being honest, you can't have an opinion on something you didn't play. So yes you should buy and play something before drawing conclusions worth sharing. Before you do any of that, your opinion is just noise that's not relevant to any discussion.
@ I agree that intergalactic didn’t give enough to warrant a real opinion on the game, I disagree with your second statement. The market speaks their opinion with their willingness to pay, if a game especially one in a beloved franchise like dragon age under performs it’s because the fan base and potential fans weren’t given enough reason to buy. I’ve been a fan of dragon age from the beginning and can name numerous reasons why veilguard is a failure to the series without having played it and even without mentioning a certain character. If everyone keeps buying bad games so they can claim the right to talk about why a game is bad then we will continue to get bad games.
Thank you I 100% agree with Colin and Chris and actually didn’t mind the game and like the trailer for intergalactic. But Dustin constantly saying if you don’t like it you just can’t comprehend it. Bro weren’t you filming weddings in Butler Pennsylvania like 2 years ago. Relax 🤡
@@thatguy1380 Dragon Age and Bioware are nowhere near what they were 10 years ago. They've released Anthem and Andromeda, two very mid games that felt more EA than Bioware. Not to mention Dragon Age was never their best selling franchise, and Inquisition was an outlier that sold well because it was 2014 and people wanted to play a real next gen game at the time. Plus it was GOTY material having actually won it back then. The "market" is more than just red pilled dudes with too much time on their hands bitching about bald women, it's a complex system of coincidence, luck, and nowadays a strong showing on social media. Helldivers sold HUGE numbers because of it's timing and Internet blowup. There was no marketing for that game and Arrowhead was an unknown, but the gameplay spoke for itself. And when the time comes and ND shows what they've cooked up the last 5 years, most of this noise will be irrelevant.
@@Liam-co2nl inquisition wasn’t bad, just massively bloated to the point where it became a chore to finish, but it also kept the main themes of the series unlike veilguard. It doesn’t matter if BioWare is a mostly new team, if you’re going to continue a franchise then you have to make sure it fits with the rest or it’s going to look like you threw the dragon age name on it solely to help sales. My first comment already addressed bad faith arguers, my second addressed my personal take that intergalactic didn’t have enough to form an opinion on so idk why you keep using blanket terms to label me instead of just debating my claims. This was my whole point, you can tell who the grifters or bad faith people are by debating a topic with them and if they can’t provide evidence to support their claim. Helldivers 2 supports my claim because they showed what the game was and a lot of people said “hey that looks fun” and they were right. I like games people hate like Halo 5, resident evil 6 and Operation Raccoon City and as long as people are honest about their takes whether they played them or not they are still valid.
Chris using 'Suicide Squad' & the 'Saint's Row' reboot as examples of games with negative online discourse that sold much better than you would have expected is yet another clown take from him. Ah yes 'Suicide Squad' the game that lost WB Games $200m and recently announced it would no longer be receiving content updates less than a year after launch due to the lack of active players and the 'Saint's Row' reboot aka the game that caused Volition to be closed forever! 🤣
Yeah lol
Although I believe that it did sell well on the first month of release and was included the top 10. I think it’s not suicide squad that he was talking about. It was Gotham Knights. I think it did really well even if it’s not a good game at all.
SSKtJL sold millions. It was a top 20 sold game of the year until November. It outsold Metaphor, Stellar Blade, Warhammer, Astro Bot among other pretty great games.
I couldn't actually believe it when he used those examples lmao, bro is completely clueless on the topic wtf
@@jiggerypokery2962yes, because they were nearly giving it away for like $4. The game dropped in price FAST.
@@jiggerypokery2962You’re a paid WB shill spreading lies
The ignorance is palpable. It seems that Colin's love for TLOU II has prevented him from listening to any criticism of it. Most people assumed that what happened to that character was going to happen somehow. It's the way it was executed that people don't like. Yes, what happened does make sense, but it's the writing and the timing that pissed people off. It's also how the character was treated and they didn't act how they should. There's been plenty of criticism of the game. From the writing, to the pacing, to the gameplay, to the characters. There a ton of it that you seem to have ignored completely.
There's multiple reasons that people don't like Neil Druckmann. One is obviously TLOU II. Another is how Naughty Dog false copyright striked UA-camrs and Neil was talking about how he wanted that and was okay with it. Even pointing out certain videos. There's also that speech he gave about how much he liked Anita Sarkeesian and how women being portrayed as sexy is misogynistic. He also said that originally the infected were all going to be women, but he thought that was misogynistic, so they changed it. Even though it could be an interesting concept if done right. It does seem he's woke contrary to Colin's opinion.
I think that it is nice of him to be this accepting of a game no one knows anything about. Do you know? Sometimes it is better to chill out because you know that you will not change the game in any way. So if you don't like what you see that is always ok. I hate sports games so I don't play them. And I would never comment on a video of any of these shit games ever.😅
@@Alienshade Uncharted is my favorite video game franchise. I also liked the first Last of Us. I would love to buy another Naughty Dog game, but I don't like the direction Neil Druckmann has taken them in since TLOU II. I'm not saying I'll never get this. If I hear good things from people I trust and it seems like a game I'd like, then I will. I think a lot of people upset about it are in a similar boat. I bet there is some people who would never be interested in playing that type of game regardless of quality that are complaining, but I think there's so much backlash, because most are fans of old Naughty Dog and they don't like the direction they're going in.
Also, I think it's good to criticize something if you have problems with it. Maybe it won't change anything with that game, but those criticisms may be considered next time. I don't think you should necessarily just accept what they put in front of you. Even though there's not much we know about the game. We can still analyze and criticize what we do know and with it being this early, maybe there will be change if people criticize it. I wouldn't hold my breath though lol.
@@AlienshadeNeil criticized Quiet’s design 2 years before the Phantom Pain was out, and she ended being the only character that had a decent storyline. So I will do the same to his shitty game
People can create the type of game they want, write pieces, say stuff about gamers but, at the end of the day we have the right to vote with our wallet.
And no one ever said you didn’t
Our god given rights of the wallet vote
@@user-dj9iu2et3r What I find so weird about people is...when a game maybe isn't for them or whatever, they go on tantrums and complain non stop, it's just weird and wild...
If I don't like a game I just don't buy it.. or don't go on crying about it. I move on.
@@user-dj9iu2et3rjust don’t cry abt it when we didn’t. Too much to ask?
And it’s going to be a huge hit. Like Chris said, the average person is going to look at this game and be like yeah, I want to play it. People buy newly released games just because they can ALL the time. Not everyone is a gamer, so they just the hot new thing
There is, and always has been since release, valid and completely warranted criticisms of the Last of Us Part II's narrative, direction, and characters. **NakeyJakey's video on it, Erik Kain's review from Forbes (who also defended Chris Avellone), Suggestive Gaming's video on it, etc. and so on.** It's not because of any surface level, vapid reasons like "it's woke" or "Abby is 'x' or isn't 'y'," that the loud minority is flaunting online which is LARGELY what the 'Naughty Dog derangement' segment is railing against. There are plenty of videos and articles online from well-respected people who've laid out their thoughts respectfully on that sentiment. Yes, a lot of the hate Intergalactic is getting online is from the loud minority who have bad faith arguments, but I think plenty of people who were fans of Naughty Dog are just skeptical and worried going forward after playing TLOU II. Naughty Dog is undeniably one of the most prolific and high quality PlayStation first parties around and PS first-party releases frankly come up more sparingly than many fans would like. It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that you are no longer the target audience for a once fan-favorite studio or one of the biggest first-party devs on your preferred platform. Personally, I don't want to sit through another 35 hour experience where I hate playing half of it because a large portion of the game is not resonating with me. But it's a first party title, we don't get those every day, I would like to be part of the conversation, and I like to finish games. At the same time, will I rail against the dev or director online with vitriolic messages? No. But I don't think most people who feel the same way I do will either. We just won't buy the game.
How about, instead of a SS+ episode talking to Hoeg for the 3rd time in two months (love ya Hoeg but it's a lot) about dense and esoteric business dealings in the video game industry, Colin reaches out to folks who have talked openly about their well-thought out, analytical criticisms about TLOU II's narrative issues and have a civil conversation about it. Colin's always talking about how he likes hearing different opinions and is open to debate, right? I know I for one would love for my Patreon dollars to go to a one-off discussion episode like that! It's been four years, ND just announced another game, why not?
Well said. 👌
Dunkey and Girlfriend Reviews’ videos on TLOU 2 are my favourite ones, yet I am cautious about Intergalactic. A bit skeptical even…
Nakey jakey had a good video on last of us 2 but dunkeys video is also great and I agree with dunkey. The last of us 2 is a goated game
"How about Colin reaches out to folks who have talked openly about their well-thought out, analytical criticisms about TLOU II's narrative issues and have a civil conversation about it."
That would require Colin actually listening to the opinion of anyone else other than himself.
@ colin will listen but just disagree. Just like I disagree with people's critique of the game. No one can change my opinion on the game. I think k it's a masterpiece
3:15:31 - you guys have spent like an hour so far defending this company. 😂
Funny thing is, I bet Sony Japan leadership is sick of this stuff as well. That is what you get for having all your big Western Studios located in California. Playing as a female in Ghost of Yotei is the most insanely woke shit since AC Shadows.
How do these guys not know where the criticism comes from? Or the "derangement" as they're calling it. This stuff is so easy to see. Last game, kill my favorite character in a game quickly while 2 girl bosses fight over revenge that actually doesn't get a resolution other than revenge is bad. This stuff ain't rocket science to understand. Neil drunkman wishes he was a man but in a females body, big muscles but also feminine. Dude his last story was shit and he's following it up with a trailer of an Asian tom boy shaving her head to apparently save a galaxy or the human race. It's shit guys and they know it and we know it. Hate to say but the shit feels the definition of woke...period
Can you imagine if people threw tantrums like you every time their favorite character died in Game of Thrones or Walking Dead? 😂
So a character you liked died. Boo hoo.
Over the past decade there’s been an obvious trend of making games unappealing in both narrative and character design in pursuit of very specific partisan sensibilities. The term “woke” is thrown around too much but it really seems to fit the bill here. We seemingly can’t have beautiful female characters because it’s exploiting the male gaze. You can’t give your character big boobs in Dragon Age for the same reason. Women characters overall have become unlikable 2D ‘girl boss’ cutouts because it’s current year damnit and a portrayal of a woman as anything other than the effortless macho badass is sexist! Then of course you have seemingly every female also being written in as a lesbian because we need to correct that historical under-representation. It all just rips the fun out of games, which at the end of the day is what gaming is supposed to be about. This modern nuttiness really went over the rails in Naughty Dog’s game where we had a hilarious checklist of agenda items: unlikable steroid abusing women, pregnant women in front line combat, lesbian Jewish women, obligatory anti-gay bigots to shame, trans youth oppressed by a cult bigots, hulking female brute enemies, etc. All of that energy into checking boxes and the story was terrible and contrived. Gamers have every right to be angry their favorite mediums are being ruined by political zealots who feel much more compelled to put bad politics into their games than create good enjoyable pieces of entertainment.
Well said!
This!
You guys are arguing in such bad faith when talking about naughty dog criticism
You painted everyone with the incel brush and how we're all just malicious haters and "oh they couldn't handle the bold choices in tlou2 because they're babies" like.. what?
The strawman they role out every time it comes to defending TLoU2 is genuinely painful to listen to. God forbid they actually talk with someone who thought the game was bad.
Any creative product is fair play for judgement it’s just unfortunate that a large majority of the ND criticism is presented in such poor manner and bad faith. It drowns out legitimate criticism and conversation.
@@robf The only people who believe this are defenders of the game, I'm sorry to say.
Doesn't the insane reaction to the Entergalactic teaser kind of prove their point? I mean we have seen no gameplay and people are already losing their shit.
Same thing happened when TLOU2 got spoiled before release. We never got to talk about serious criticism because most people only did it after whining about a story beat that they disliked and all kinds of culture war bullshit. After that a lot people dont care about valid criticism you may have.
@@PunishedlLongshanks Whats bad about the game? care to explain?
Colin, how about giving Bruce Staley credit for TLOU success instead of always mentioning your boy Neil, after all Part One was the much more successful game in terms of sales. Funny how with the Last of us part one success, it always seems Neil takes the credit for it all and never have I seen him once in any interview after the success of the show and the 2 games releases give any credit to Bruce. Bruce did co-direct the game as well yet you never hear about him or even think about him when anyone mentions TLOU. If you guys still don’t understand the public vitriol for part 2 and naughty dog then maybe you guys don’t understand some of your audience, it’s more than just about taking out Joel… 😒
Bruce was Game Design Director, Neil was Creative Director. What aspect of TLOU1 got more praise? The story or the ladder and box puzzles?
Co game director, along with game designer
THANK YOU!
@@PetrifyingPumpkinsExactly. Can we all stop with the revisionist history over TLOU1 just to try and undermine Druckmann’s incredible record?
And we all saw the direction when Neil takes the reins for full director of a game and how sloppy of a direction Part 2 turned out to be. Got no problem with the story, I felt it was just out of order and could have been done a lot better. For example SPOILERS!!!! I feel like if Joel was killed much later in the story instead of the first hour of the game and we actually played some Ellie’s flashbacks between her and Joel in present time, the vitriol for this game wouldn’t be as bad as it is at this moment today for part 2.
How disingenuous of Colin to always say "It's like they're daring you to notice" when it comes to weird protagonist or character decisions in AC Shadows or Dragon Age Veilguard and other games that don't matter so much to him, but then conveniently forget that argument when it comes to Druckman and ND. And Chris saying there is no nuance when it comes to this discussion. Y'all are full of shit. I just wrote you a few weeks back with a nuanced take on the whole controversy surrounding Ghost of Yotei and you didn't bother to read it. That's fine, I'm not saying you have to, but as you like to say, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. You guys build up strawmen so hard to knock down, it's ridiculous. "Show me your tits!" Colin mocked.. most serious people aren't even saying that about Intergalactic! We think women should be women. Not designed to look like men, not designed solely for the male gaze with big tits, not Mary Sues who can do anything and everything, and not to subvert expectations just to piss people off and "dare us to notice or say something." And when we notice or say something, we're the ones who are crazy or misogynistic or bigoted? Get fucked, man. No one even brought up how off putting and dismissive Jordan's personality is in the trailer. This is supposed to be someone we WANT to play as? Someone giving off space teenager vibes who's trying to look like a space marine who makes product placement their personality? Sign me up! /s. I'm willing to reserve judgment on the final product but TLOU 2 revealed where much of Neil's writing direction was going with the sometimes weak narrative points and forced politicization. I just don't have faith in them to do it without spitting on their audience.
Colin use to stand for something, even if he didn't agree with another's viewpoints, but this is the type of shit I'd expect at every other lazy games podcast or website. We're giving nuanced takes but you refuse to read or accept them. How about you don't label your audience and have enough self awareness that maybe you ARE missing something due to your own personal connections and biases. And shame on Dustin for not having the balls to say anything with his full-throated opinion. He kinda gets there halfway, then has a short, mealy mouthed response then sits back down in his corner. And that's fine if he doesn't agree with me, but at least EXPLAIN why you can "kinda see the issue" with what we're bringing up. You guys are giving the other far side of the argument to address the trolls and actual bigots on the opposite far side. There are those of us in the middle who notice this shit and are just sick of it.
I'm the guy who loved Tales of Kenzera: Zau so much I platinumed it, and I am as conservative as they come. But I can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. I can have my viewpoints challenged and play videogames that don't reflect my political opinions. I also platinumed TLOU 2. But don't talk down to me or disregard my opinion just because you try to lump it in with a few crazies out there who DO believe the stupid shit like having any women in a game means it is "woke." THAT'S NOT OUR ARGUMENT. You get great female protagonists by having them EMBRACE their femininity, their physical, biological shortcomings when compared to men, using their brains and wit to come up with solutions to problems, and maybe seeing them train hard physically to at least try to be able to compete with a man. But we usually don't get that context these days. It's just "badass girl-boss" vibes with no rhyme or reason, or ONLY for the sake of DEI. I didn't hate Abby in TLOU 2: she at least worked out and referenced it, plus she loved Owen and had a physical, intimate relationship with him, and you could kind of understand why she did what she did. I was actually more empathetic towards Abby than Ellie by the end! BUT NO! I criticized Pope Druckman, and now the Inquisition is after me.
I've really been debating if I wanted to keep supporting you on Patreon lately, and being sold down the river like this after years and years of support is going to make it really easy to cancel.
It’s actually embarrassing what Colin has become
Bro wrote us a novel 😂
@@Cyborg1011I was gonna ask what the TLDR version of this. Cause there is. No way in hell I’m reading this. 😂😂
This is the best reply I've see regarding the show in a long time. well written and well said. I'm with you on all your points you made.
Time stamp me please
More often than not, when you guys are talking about masculinity or men’s representation in games it comes off entirely condescending. I been following my boy Das Colin for the better part of two decades, he’s been my go to for PS coverage since PS3 days, I remember seeing him on podcast beyond right before Beyond 100, been a wrap since. Though as a guy who is concerned about the state of masculinity as a whole, not just in gaming, I’m tired of coming to my favorite PS podcast just for you all to act like anyone who even has the concern at all, is some lunatic right wing zealot. “Mah tOo MaNy WaMen in My GamEs.” You continue to only address goofballs who talk like that on twitter, the vast majority of us don’t agree with them either. For you guys to continue to retread this conversation, having roughly the same dialogue has become a tiresome echo chamber. Let’s either get someone on that can offer some real perspective, not hyperbolic twitter nonsense, or maybe leave the conversation alone? There was a brief acknowledgment about the number of mascot characters Sony still has, who are traditional masculine men but nothing after. I genuinely hope some balance can be found here, I worry this echo chamber of condescension is going to push a lot of listeners away if it continues.
I agree with this entirely. As a proud masculine man. But, brother. I promise masculinity isn't dying in video games. Not the slightest. It's just you and many others look at these large corporations and base it off that.
Space Marine 2 is a prime example of a hyper masculine game that came out recently. It's just these weird California/American group of studios that seemingly hate strong men.
Couldn’t agree more with this. Honestly it’s starting to feel like I’m watching the kinda funny guys at this point. I’m barely wanting to listen anymore if that’s the case.
"The vast majority of us don't agree with them either.."
Hmm. I dont know about that.. lol
@@afroamerican4029 looking at the like to dislike ratio on every single UA-cam trailer for it. I would say he’s right.
@Psilo_Sybin space marine in the exception, not the rule. You'd have to be a fool to believe there isn't a anti masculine agenda being pushed with the ridiculous amount of female protagonists releasing.
I love you guys but I really can't listen to 'Colin defends TLOU2' again. Yes ND hate is extreme, totally agree, but the defensiveness surrounding all criticism is just annoying at this point.
Not nearly as annoying as the people who are obsessed with hating it
@@dukeluffy1549 No as someone who enjoys ND games you're both incredibly annoying and the normal gamers in the middle are being drowned out by both emotionally immature sides.
*Please* Colin, *please* keep insulting your listeners and calling them racist. It's worked so well for companies over the past few years. It would be a real shame if your listeners abandon you while you continue to abuse them every podcast.
@@NP-ip3nj has he done this before?
Y’all are incels
@@genericallyaccepteddepends which Colin show's up, there's they right wing free speech Colin that was sacked by a load of lefty's over a joke, then there's the ign liberal "my wife is black and I'm best friends with Neil who isn't woke" Colin ..it changes every couple of weeks but he's gotten really woke lately
@@TTx04xCOBRA Ya I bet the guy with the Venom pfp has a girlfriend lmao
lmaoo ok soy boss level 99
This podcast doesn't understand what "woke" is. They also counter with extreme strawman arguments. Yes she doesn't need hair but she also doesn't have to shave down to bald, why even wear certain clothing, why are many woman Niel puts in look like men and are abnormally/extremely strong and muscular? Why not just make the character male? Why not just put a feminine woman if you want to put a woman. The equivalent argument would be if most males Neil put in a game were hyper feminized, very skinny sensitive and weak with very little muscle...I'm sure these guys would get it then ..
I would argue none of you know what woke really mean
@@Atare617The term has been co-opted and run into the ground by the right wing, and now serves as a lazy method of criticizing anything that doesn't affirm the user's beliefs or worldview.
@@Atare617 Wokism is essentially the idea that the primary driver of human interaction is dictated by the dynamic between oppressor and oppressed classes and the attempts to eliminate these perceived differences through equity and inclusion. The groups of concern are delineated a relatively small number of all possible characteristics e.g. race, sex, sexuality and more recently "gender."
Colin is incapable of just being normal when it comes to Naughty Dog.
It always has to be "this is the greatest thing ever, youre just missing it because blah blah blah"
Impossible to accept that some people just might not be into the writing or character design.
He literally does accept it though.
If he thinks its one of the greatest games ever then why wouldn't he voice it on the gaming podcast he hosts and owns? If you disagree with his opinion then don't listen, he is putting out his opinion honestly, would you prefer he just lie?
@@jacobself1920
You couldn't have misunderstood this comment more. I have no issue with him thinking it's one of the greatest games, it's how he reacts to people who don't agree
@@DD-fs9xt It's art. I think Outer Wilds is the greatst game of all time, if a bunch of people disagreed I would also make it clear I thought they were wrong and try to elucidate why I think they are. When Colin talks about those who don't see what he see's in TLOU2 it bears no connection to them as people or anything, he just disagress with their opinion on a piece of art, and disagrees strongly. Isn't that what any meaningful and honest discussion around games necessitates?
@@jacobself1920
So you have the same problem then. Why not just accept that some people don't agree with you and enjoy the game.
You can think that's the greatest game of all time, just don't lecture others who don't and make weird generalizations about them like Colin does
I like to listen to this podcast, but as others have said, it's becoming an echo chamber. It just feels like everyone has to agree with Colin or each other. Also, Colin is super biased here, Naughty Dog always tries to push an agenda, while he mocks Veilguard in previous episodes about it's LGBTQ+ stuffed in.
They need variety here it's just becoming the same over and over. " controversy happens." let's all talk and give the same opinions for 1 hour.
ND's contravercy is basically girls exist.
@@jiggerypokery2962 that's so deep bro
@@jiggerypokery2962 you're close-minded view is the problem. You realize that, right?
Because the TLOU story line has a logic and coherence that suits the game. Veil guard is just shoe horning the issues in to be seen to be checking boxes so they can say they are being inclusive. Cynical. Bonkers that some people can’t see the difference.
@oldskool4572 I definitely do see some difference, although you can not deny the obvious agenda they are trying to push with Abby.
The game was great, but let's not pretend we don't see what they are trying to say. Ellie is sick, and I like more than Joel tbh, but Abby being jacked in a ruined world is dumb asf. and breaks realism they are trying to push.
Maybe it's time, after 4 years to actually look at the criticism of TLOU2. It's easy to find, nakeyjakey got a great video on it, and many other. But you won't because it will hurt your friends who ruined it.
Never once in the history of the game has Colin engaged with TLOU2 Criticism in good faith. Never once.
Somehow I don't Jakes issue with the game are the same as the commenters here.
You clearly didn't watch Nakey's video. His issues with the game isn't Joel dying or gay character or "woke" issues. So it's clear that you didn't watch his video...smh.
@@AnthonyMcNeilI never said the only issues with the game are the check-list characters or "woke". Only bad faith fanboys do that.
@@jamesmmu strawman. Classic.
As expected, Colin and Co. Are completely out of touch on Intergalactic. I am not Anti-Woke but nobody likes being gaslit. People haven't forgotten Pt2's marketing that suggested that Joel would be in the game more than he was. Pt1 also didn't have the Fireflies as altruistic heroes, they stole Joel's guns when they were the reward for returning Ellie. I doubt in-game Joel would know, but you can't make a vaccine for a fungal virus. Their doctor going, immediately to "Hey, let's kill Ellie" instead of examining her, and running tests just shows how incompetent the Fireflies are.
There was no moral Grey decision at the end of Pt1, Joel did what he had to. My only issue with Pt1's ending was not showing Joel taking as many guns with him as he could once the building was cleared. Pt2 is just Gaslight, the video game. Joel bad, the cycle of violence bad, the Fireflies good actually! Look at Bear the dog! Don't you want to pet Bear before Ellie kills him and calls him a fucker?! Isn't Abby awesome?! Ellie bad!!
If Neil wasn't Colin's personal friend I think this game would be rightly hated the same way Star Wars: The Last Jedi is. Being subversive doesn't make you a brilliant writer; it means you have to bring your A-game to make it work, and it just didn't for a large amount of people. If you want to see Pt2's themes done better in every way possible outside of graphics, play Yakuza 0.
I will never take away from Naughty Dog's technical ability to develop, to make things look gorgeous, or their efforts to normalize gay folks like Ellie. That being said, I just don't trust Neil as a writer. Without Bruce or Amy, Pt2 was bloated, sloppy, and the lore of Pt1 was bent and broken to fulfill his vision. Like Colin rants about books being taken out of the canon, what is the point in caring about Joel, Ellie, and the universe built in Pt1 if they are going to toss it all away for cheap shock slop? I'm sure you'll give it a 12/10 anyway Colin, then make 4 spoiler casts defending your friend just to counter the vitriol towards the game and Neil himself.
Pt2 was just a mediocre title and Naughty Dog has to earn their right to be considered a premier PlayStation studio again with Intergalactic. The trailer was just bad; it doesn't tell you anything about the world, the name sucks, and to glean any information, you HAVE to read Neil's write-up. There are bad signs and red flags all over the place; the Gooners are less than 5% of this conversation, even if they are the loudest. Get off Twitter and talk with good-faith actors who didn't like the trailer, and they'll tell you the same I have.
Well said.
Colin better run here and delete this comment. Doesn't bode well for his narratives.
why woudnt you be anti woke? Go woke go broke. the evidence is there with every single woke game and movie that fails.
I don't get it... haven't trailers been misleading us for DECADES..... Why is Pt2 any different?
Very well put!
I know Colin is a fan of ND and is friends with Neil but I was maybe hopeful for more nuance and less strawmans when they had this discussion. That clearly didn’t happen, very disappointing episode, oh well.
What is this? You talk as if there is no legitimate criticism of Naughty Dog, TLoU 2, or Druckmann. There are countless videos, articles, and podcasts with considered critiques, yet you disregard all of that as baseless or "deranged". Echo chamber.
Every time Colin says he "doesn't understand" why people dislike TLoU2, I die a little bit inside. It's fine if he likes it, but maybe listen to someone with a different opinion and then you'd understand!
Echo chamber is right. They act as if the opposition to the Last of Us 2 and now Intergalactic is just dumb and without substance. Couldn't possibly be that people have worthwhile criticism.
Opposition to intergalactic is baseless
@@Atare617 What if people aren't interested in playing as a butch, androgynous, 'badass' fem protag? What if they have reservations about the writing/story after the catastrophe of TLoU2?
@@lastoftheb00mers When you look at the criticism (legit) about the game it basically boils down to the fact that trailer shows little about the game. That in itself is completely fair and not uncommon in the industry. Should that be enough to warrant hundreds of articles and youtube videos about the game. Not a chance. Look at the trailer itself, TECHNICALLY, it looks fantastic. People's mileage will vary with the content but it looks visually slick and we know that ND are at the top of the mountain when it comes to mocap.
So yea, criticism is cool but the fact that most content isn't even about what the game is going to be about kinda reveals everything about the source of the hate
Colin calling out certain Xbox fans for being friendly with management or creating some Xbox fanart while defending Naughty Dog so much that his own wife calls him out on Summon Sign, I really hope the massive hypocrisy isn't lost on him.
Which episode did his wife call him out in? I want to see that.
@@abaddontheannihilator8144 The last summon sign ep51 he kept praising it while she kept calling out its flaws and disagreeing with him.
There’s a massive difference in that Colin ISN’T friends with Herman Holst and DOESN’T create marketing pieces for the brand of PlayStation.
He'd have to recognize the dozens of other examples of his hipocracy as well.
He has had Shuhei and Neil Druckman over for Dinner when he lived with Greg still, numerous times. There are various pictures of them doing it…so yeah he loves PlayStation execs
I gotta say, it’s a bold strategy to essentially call half your audience “deranged” because we didn’t like the writing of TLOU 2 and the character design from Intergalactic. Big yikes…
*Spoilers TLOU 2*
Also, most people weren’t mad that Joel was killed… It was the manner in which he was killed. It was poor writing to have him killed off the way he did. He was killed because he revealed his name was Joel. Tommy and Joel survived for years because they didn’t give out detailed information to people they didn’t know. Suddenly, they go into a house of people they don’t know and start giving them all their information? Then in the end, Ellie kills off hundreds of people to reach Abby and then just lets her go? It’s just bad writing.
Also, The actress who plays Jordan in Intergalactic just recently put out a post saying “You mad bro?” That featured fan art with the title “Fragile Masculini-tea”. Of course she deleted the post and you guys wonder why nobody cares to play this. People are tired of being preached at from celebs who don’t like you. Intergalactic deserves to fail.
Joel from the beginning of TLOU was not the same person he was at the end TLOU, and Joel at the end of TLOU wasn't the same person he was at the beginning of TLOU2. 4 Years had passed since, he is happily living in a functioning community, where one of his tasks was to help outsiders. Joel clearly have been softening in Jackson, the museum scene is the perfect example of that. When he and Tommy came across Abby, she was close to being killed, Joel helps her, and they fight together against infected. What reason Joel has to suspect Abby as a nefarious person? Also Abby's squad at first glance doesn't even look threatening. Group made of young people, with both genders, unlike hunters or even David's group from the first game.
@@obey400 that’s inaccurate. Their only job was to clear infected from around their camp. They weren’t obligated to help anybody. People change but survival instincts doesn’t. Also, the group they met were all armed, so they were still a threat. Joel would never go into the house where they shut the door behind them and let them get flanked. Him and Tommy certainly would never divulge information that would put their own camp at risk. Telling a group of random people whom are armed where your camp is, is a major risk.
@@TheOff1ceFan They clearly have increased the population in Jackson with outsiders, what are you talking about? Like Joel and Ellie themselves? Notes in the game show that outsiders have joined Jackson when doing the guarding tasks. And when it comes to Abby's squad, so what if they have weapons, it would be pretty stupid to move around in hostile grounds with no weapons? Abby's group also saved Joel and Tommy before they killed Joel. What reason they have to doubt these people? Explain? The only Reason Joel got killed was because they had reason to kill Joel. Basically very bad luck. Joel and Tommy also didn't have anywhere else to go. It was be or be killed.
@ you are doing mental gymnastics trying to justify Joel forgetting how to survive. Also, Jackson was massive at the end of the first Last of Us, so you can’t say one way or another that it has grown a bunch. You would not survive in a post apocalyptic world based on your outlook lmao
@@TheOff1ceFan You cannot counter my arguments, because you're overly emotional over entertainment product. I Gave you reasons why Tommy and Joel would act like they did. You gave me bunch of what ifs. group of 8 kids are not a threat to Jackson.
Sony 1st party games:
Uncharted - retire ND and replace with daughter (supposedly)
Ghosts - female in new game
Ratchet - bring in female
TLOU - kill Joel, move story on with Ellie
Returnal - female
Horizon - female
Intergalactic - female
To say there isn't a pattern is dishonest. When I play games I role-play as the character. I know I'm not the only one that does and I also know there are people that don't. You know what I don't do? I don't mock how other players play games and what's important to them. It's not that I can't play these games, it's that excitement playing as a female is so much less I may not even purchase the game at all.
Yea, as a male, I don’t mind playing a female occasionally. But now it seems like almost every Sony studio is making only female leads. Call me whatever you want, but as a male, I generally prefer to play as a male.
To say you would care if it was just males would be dishonest. You would just be fine if it were
Also you conveniently leave out Ghost of Tsushima, Ratchet and Clank, Spider-Man, Astro Bot, and probably others not coming to mind
"it's that the excitement of playing a female is so much less that I may not purchase the game at all"
Lmfao
Kratos, SpiderMen, Wolervine, Sackboy lol
@@victory7763 "conveniently left out" I mentioned the new female lead in Ghosts and female added to Ratchet and Clank lol. Reading comprehension much? Thanks for reminding me though about Spider-Man which has forced Mary Jane missions that of all missions in the game are the most boring and should have been left out. Same will go for the new Wolverine game that has forced Jean Gray missions according to the insomniac leak. And how far-right extremist of you to assume Astro Bots gender, from what I've played (Platinum) AB's gender was never stated.
People can bring up old franchises but remember AAA dev time is 4+ years. All these changes and path going forward started in 2016 with the Trump Derangement Syndrome. Take GoW for example, GoW2018 probably started in development around 2013/2014. There's a roadmap already for the game. What's next for the studio? We'll see won't we?
This isnt complicated Colin and LSM crew; if people can like the trailer and up vote it (and you have zero issue with that- which I dont have either), you cant pretend the guys who do the opposite are "out of touch" for judging it negatively based on the same trailer.
Stupid shit like up/down votes will never balance once the filth get their sights on it.
The sales and popularity will drown it out always.
I've never been disappointed in what Colin has to say until this.
Except "she's bald" is a stupid reason to click dislike. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not all opinions are equal. No one has to take juvenile adults seriously.
@@victory7763 I don't think that's the majority of people's reasoning for not liking her. I think most of us get the impression that she's an arrogant, close-minded, smug individual that actually puts in a ton of effort into her looks. Her being bald is not that important
@genericallyaccepted I can't tell because the comments on the video are in majority related to gender or bald heads. And for the most part if you scroll youtube most of the videos created about the game are about gender and bald heads
I don't even care about "woke" or "DEI" stuff, but I guess I just wish Western games could match the same magic from ~15 years ago. The Uncharted trilogy, Mass Effect trilogy, Halo trilogy, Gears of War triogy, God of War trilogy, Bethesda games from this time, early CoDs, Rockstar games from the 2000s, etc. Like... there's clearly something missing and it's just not as fun anymore. Nearly everything that people buy and really enjoy is coming out of East Asia.
Lets see how much of a derangement syndrome its gonna be when every single NORMAL gamer converts into non-buynary, and Sony fires half the studio after this disaster. Veilguard and company wasn't enough, i guess.
I think most "normal" people who are not deranged into requiring every main character in media they consume to be "relatable" to them will just play and enjoy the game.
@@JimsGameRoom Which is nobody, goofball.
@@abaddontheannihilator8144 "Nobody" - Mind listing me an example of a genuinely good game that bombed because of DEI and solely due to DEI?
I'm sorry this take is a miss, guys. When you have the lead actress posting and then deleting a propoganda post on Instagram in relation to the game with buzzwords to stir up and antagonize the target audience, I just dont see how the descions being made aren't intentional and politically driven...I'm not a fool who thinks by virtue of anything featuring a woman means something is woke, but this one is pretty blatant. She deleted it because naughty dog definitely reached out and told her take it down because it could affect their bottom line.
Release trailer, disable comments, mass dislikes, actor/actress attacks gamers. This is text book absolute flop in the making.
When you have a large group of people calling you ugly I mean it's a human reaction to respond. I'm confused what we're canceling naughty dog over. Maybe I'm missing additional context
@joshsny143 If you're missing context, then it would behoove you to completely research the matter at hand before randomly commenting on it.
@@MrQuarantine nah I don't believe in cancel culture. If the game ends up good I'll play it if it sucks I won't. The only context I really need to see is actual gameplay. Anything else at this point is just noise
Glad we had another hour+ of Colin defending The Last of Us again. It would be alright if he actually discussed the issues people have with recent ND titles, however he just builds a stupid straw man and attacks that instead.
Because a lot, not all, of the people who hate on the game aren't very bright.
I mean it's his favorite lesbian game
@@dtanobo yea but why focus on those people? Wouldnt it make for good content to discuss actual valid criticisms instead of the nonsense? Very frustrating to listen to.
We need to convince Colin intergalactic is gonna be "the dark souls of story games" so he can do an immediate 180 and hate it without playing it
@@305antivenom Like Dustin and even more so Chris are those people since especially Chris didn't like the game. He did a whole spoilercast with Micah who didn't like the game. It's just that the people who are the loudest, unfortunately poison the well of discourse and not only that, the normal people who didn't like the game, didn't make talking about it a nightmare for years
Jesus Christ. Too bold? What is bold about intergalactic trailer? Product placement in your face, unlikable characters. Like another game with a tough smart ass female lead with a shaved head is pretty played out. The problem is if it’s done well, people wouldn’t care. But with the one super expensive first impression we got, it ain’t it. Leave it to a bunch of dudes who play videos games all day and talk about it for a job to create a straw man that these white knights have to knock down. Smh
Learn the difference between product placement and world building.
@@madsines5301if that's all you had to say to him in your response then he's way more correct about everything else.
Unlikeable characters? Oh shit you got the script and know who these characters are already?
That one publishing guy from Larian Studios said it best - you can't just dismiss the culture stuff prevalent in today's world that affects games and devs have to learn to navigate it, at least on this triple-A level of operating. Considering the resources, time, and technical capability of studio like Naughty Dog, I think they must consider their mass appeal without compromising on their vision significantly, and with Niel at the wheel its probably not likely going forward.
Why do you care about mass appeal? What difference does it make that a game sells well to you? This criticism is ridiculous because it is so obvious that you are working backwards. You decide you don't like a direction a game/studio is going and you try and find a "legitimate" reason. Please just be honest with your criticism.
I personally care coz simultaneously am a fan and respect Naughty Dog and their output through the generations, and want them to do commercially as well as they do critically, because there are only a few that could rival their lod's and technical mastery, and don't wanna see them go on a downward spiral in likeness to Bioware, Bethesda, etc... that's why sales are THE factor like it or not, especially on this triple A elite level, when they are tasked to make a game that would fire on every cylinder imaginable, innovation, relevancy, critical and mass appeal, sales.
I haven't decided anything yet but I'm most likely gonna buy it on day 1 coz of all the mentioned above, I'm just arguing in the name of those who hold anti-ND sentiment... I'm not the one who needs extra convincing but many potential players do.
This is the most honest I can be, having a nuanced perspective while still hoping ND succeeds but noticing a concerning trend.
@@conor8223 This new trend of people caring so deeply about sales is so bizarre. Who gives a fuck if a game sells 5 copies or 5 million as long as it's a good game? Intergalactic could be the biggest gaming flop of all time and there's still zero chance Naughty Dog gets shut down.
Just further proves to me that these people don't even like gaming, they like arguing on social media to score points.
Colin gets so sassy and catty when people point out the truth about his boyfriend 😂
So do you
Neil druckman is a self proclaimed feminist of course I’m not gonna vibe with the guy. Amy henning did better anyways.
Delusional. Amy went on to be part of Forespoken and you all ragged on that up and down. Uncharted 4 is the best uncharted. Last of us 1 is uncontroversially considered good and tlou2 is very well written to anyone who regularly reads or watches films that aren't produced by Disney.
Colin is the first thing I think of when I hear Naughty Dog Derangement Syndrome.
Daaaaaaammmmm..... .!
He did coin it, but the internet actually has it.
People don't hate Naughty Dog enough. I'll be rejoicing in Colin's tears in this episode.
Hopefully the gaming industry starts healing and wanna-be movie directors get ejected from their current positions, opening space for talented and creative people. Neil Druckmann would do great in Hollywood, plenty of subpar writers and copycats for him to work with. TLOU2 writing gives him perfect credentials to join the club.
To me it is strange to see people hate games. I mean 80% of all games are probably not for you. I mean how do you have the energy to hate all those bad games? I really don't like 99% of all sports games. But I don't give it any energy.
When Neil Drunkman is game director, the game will be woke as F**k. He's made it very clear he has an agenda. Aslong as he is directing games, I'm done with Naughty Dog.
Proud of you
I like when Collin said that he's writing shows for HBO.... uh he's copied homework and called it a show. The TLoU TV Show is a straight up travesty. But good for Druckman for getting that deal done though, I guess. Its not particularly ethical, or good for the art, or a good reflection lol.
I imagine this podcast will be downvoted just like intergalactic.. you boys are on the wrong side of history chris
Video has 1000 likes and 600 dislikes.
Shame people all you want, LSM team. You still won't make us buy the game and that tactic is really stupid as it won't convince anyone.
You 100% will buy the game 😂
@@pizzathehut5808 you have slavishness hard-coded into your DNA 😂
Anyone else get mildy annoyed by how much Chris, a man in his 20s/30s complains about being tired/ill. Jesus Christ man, wait until you are 40!
He might be a hypochondriac.
Especially annoying to hear him whine as his job is seemingly to simply talk into a camera from his bedroom. He's like a teenager but as you said, is actually pushing 30.
Maybe he accidentally ended up at another party at Notch’s house. Like that actually happened in the first place. 🙄
You're right, only old people and mothers are allowed to be tired.
I must add, I am kind of joking. Its just something I noticed. 😅
When IGN and Gamespots two female reviewers gave Days Gone a bad score and half of the review bitched about Deacon St John's character, his behavior, him being a male biker, etc. you can't say the gender or character should be irrelevant. Since they couldn't connect with a male biker protagonist, why should it be any different for us males? Let's be consistent now.
Those reviewers are piece of crap. If you want to lower yourself to same level be my guest.
Didn’t we also dogpile on those reviews? Dummy?
@@hododod246 You missed the point. They weren't criticized for it in media.
Days Gone is also just a mid game though
@@dtanobo Not according to the Metacritic score of the audience. It was a solid 8.
Well, it's good that we dont have to agree on everything, boys.... cause in my view Anitas best friend Neil has changed Naughty Dog for the worse
they're not best friends, get off the internet its messing with your brain
@Dan-hz4vf I thought it was self explanatory that Ididnt mean they are not real life besties... but ok...nevertheless he really agrees with Anita's insane ramblings and has used her as a consultant... so that in itself is a nett negative for Naughty Dog. If anything can be called woke she is and he listens when she speaks.
@@kjellbjrnasmo480 bro that was like 10 - 15 years ago, just stop it. You need to grow up.
“Vote with your wallet… unless it’s my friend and our own normie ideology” - LSM
You three are the equivalent of a boxer that has literally only ever punched a bag...grow a pair between the lot of ye and have someone who doesn't share all your views on because it's easy to all have the same opinion and call everyone who disagrees name's when there isn't one other person there to pull ye on your crap.Razorfist would destroy Colin and have the other two for desert 😂
Who is Razorfist? I'd like to see what his channel is about.
What opinion do you feel isn’t being represented?
@@brenbird475 One who understands where the backlash is coming from, instead of saying "I don't get it" over and over again. Maybe then there could, maybe, be some understanding shared. At the very least it would make the podcast more interesting.
Chris is probably the reason for no opposing view's,he likes sneering into the mic at more right wing takes.. put a well informed differing opinion in there with chris and he wouldn't even show up, Colin lets him waffle about anything and make no sense, love to see someone straight up disagree and ask for citations off him or some kind of evidence for his lunatic takes@@Takadox
@@Takadoxthe backlash for this specific ND game is literally baseless. Idc how you feel about the MC’s design.
I will never buy a Naughty Dog game again, simple as. The company is awful.
What did they do to you
@@victory7763women lmao
@@victory7763 made TLOU Part II and now we got another smug, head shaven chick who is just ohhhhhh so quirky OMG
I’m buying two copies thanks to you
@@TTx04xCOBRA heck yeah, I myself identify as Non-Buy-Nary y'know I'm cool on smug quirky characters that just copy/paste each others personalities. I hope you gift the second copy to a friend and tell them to thank me.
So this podcast is just "Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product"
Or just wait to judge it for yourself
@@rifway22I can’t judge what they showed me for myself? I have to be excited for it like these guys are?
No you simply wait until they actually show you something to judge. We know next to nothing about this game. 2 years ago, ppl would simply go "hmmm" then move the fuck on. Not go on rants about shit you don't know. Or attack studios, or even ppl. It's becoming like a cult or something. It's really damn weird.
@@IBelieveInTheGYAT yea totally will cry. JFC, do you even hear yourselves. All I said was to simply wait before jumping to conclusions.
The whiney suburban culture war reactionary is strong in this chat
The arrogance from these guys at times, they aren't journalists, they are influences, that's it, they have connections to people in playstation's studios, make up your own mind about what you like or don't, they like so many think they are special, based on nothing except them believing it!
Intergalactic just didn't look very good for a variety of reasons. The Witcher 4 looked substantially better in comparison (and the numbers back that up) despite still having an actual loud/deranged minority speak out against it..
Colin and co. are increasingly out of touch on this specific issue. Maybe they have "anti-woke derangement syndrome" and are seemingly incapable of understanding why even a "normal " gamer is starting to get sick of certain tropes being used in modern games. I enjoy their discussions on 99% of topics on this show but they seem to have lost the plot on this one thing.
I'd also like to add that the whole "people who disagree with me are just terminally online losers" is part of the reason that some people are starting to be unable to see the nuance on this stuff.
It was 2 cgi trailers.
@ besides the fact your comment is just being purposefully dense, you are wrong.
W4 was pre-rendered but not “CGI.” It was made in-engine with in-game models and assets on what is likely a 5090. That is roughly what the game will look like on high end PCs. As someone who’s played Hellblade 2 on a 4090 that isn’t surprising at all.
Regardless, both trailers were made to give a general idea of the game and communicate its aesthetic and atmosphere to players. One clearly was received much better than the other in doing so.
@@Epiousios18 There's no way you seriously believe that the W4 trailer is what the gameplay will look like.
@ visually? 100% - that’s roughly what it will look like. Those were in-game models and assets. It isn’t 2007 anymore, you’ll need a $3k+ PC for it to look like that, but that’s the ballpark of what future UE5 games will look like.
As I said, that was only marginally better than Hellblade on a 4090 in most areas.
Don't you think it might be that The Witcher is part of an established franchise, with the last being a monumental success, and one being a new IP, so many people who don't know about who made TLOU or Uncharted, don't know they're making this game? It's a silly comparison to make. Of course a sequel to a beloved game will gather more attention than a new IP. I thought that would be self explanatory.
Yeah Dustin, not gonna lie that was really stuck up and pompous. Y’all treat ND like their infallible it’s so lame
Man there were so many bad faith arguments for this episode.
Says the nameless default pfp throwaway Gmail account
@jovi9918 geez you really got me there buddy
@@jovi9918Great argument Neil
Neil Druckman is not woke? I don't know him. I do know he had Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant some years back. I do know he certainly makes woke games, where pregnant doctors are cleared for combat runs in a post apocalyptic survivors group because girl bosses be girl bossing. I don't know that, but I suspect ND cannot see how unsympathetic their new characters are because disliking somebody with that many DEI-checkmarks is illegal in their mind.
I hope Intergalactic is good. But their main character had a not the best or most endearing introduction. Did I immediately wanna go on an adventure with Nathan Drake? Hell yeah! With Joel? You bet. With Chloe? Sure! With Nadine? No. With Ellie? Still yes, bit it turned out f*ed. With Jordan? No. There is much marketing to come, but as of now, no.
HEY STOP THE PRESSES BOYS! Neil Druckman had Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant!!! Woke woke woke
@victory7763 You read my comment and think a visit from Anita is my be all end all judgement about what is woke? That is not how I meant it.
@@victory7763No, a visit from Anita is not the be all end all criteria for woke productions in my book. Is this really what you got from reading my comment?
What is this? My comments keep on disappearing. I answered you two times now and these comments are just gone.
@MarkusAxunIllianus it keeps happening to me too. UA-cam is high on censorship
"It's all just lip service"
Tell that to Concord, Star Wars Outlaws and Dragon Age lol
Oh word? Tell that to *all of the most popular games today*
It’s cute that you slugs only ever bring up those three games, meanwhile the entire landscape of gaming has moved on past you weirdos. It’s never going back to what you want. Move on or fuck off.
And Suicide Squad, Saint's Row, Forspoken etc etc etc...next let's see how AC Shadows does...
@@SwiftGuyver. Don't forget Obsidian's next game now
@@PVNTHR Indeed!
None of those games came from studios with the pedigree of naughtydog and the fact you can't see that is laughable.
maybe people don't like him because he spat on joel 20 mins into the most anticipated game of the last 10 years, maybe?
Joel had it coming. Years of being a hunter and his murder of an entire hospital staff and security, and that’s his just desserts. That people didn’t see it coming is baffling.
@@Darkjediiiiyup
@Darkjediiii then Ellie will die next. Or maybe Dinah to punish Ellie.
@@Darkjediiii Yes. All of his history considered, the fact that he saves Abby, then follows her back to her place and walks into a room full of people he doesn’t know and stands in the middle of them saying ‘haha I’m Joel’ is f u c k i n g r e t a r d e d and should be criticized, among so many other issues the game has 💁🏼♂️
That’s fine but I think the point they make in the episode is that’s a pretty petty reason not to like Neil, cuz you didn’t like his story? Then piss off and find a story you do like and shut up about this one.
Why does Colin act like there aren't real criticisms with NaughtyDog? Stop focusing on the morons on the internet who just moan about women and "wOkE". TLOU2's story and writing is piss poor compared to the 1st. The gameplay is underrated though which is a shame. That's not even mentioning how other PS studios have caught up to ND too. They aren't the main draw as they used to be in the PS3 generation.
How is the writing piss poor? Lmaooo smh
I prefer Tlou2 to the first game and that includes the story...
TLOU2 has one of the best narratives in all of gaming. TLOU1 is basic compared to how bold the second one is.
@@LastMinuteGuess Completely agree
I spent half if not less time with characters like Tess, Sam, Henry, Bill, David, Riley and care more about them than Owen, Mel, Dina, Jesse, Manny, Abby etc. I get the idea but the execution didn't work for me and I found the plot bloated and poorly paced. Just having a big decision at the start about Joel or making you play as Abby didn't really make/break the game for me, the hours after just weren't that great story wise imo. The world also seems less brutal than the one built on in the 1st game. I'm interested to see if the format works better in TV show though. To each their own but I wish Colin would focus on these criticisms and other reasonable ones rather than just the online mob of unfuckable incels.
Biggest f'n L I have ever heard from all three of you. Absolutely blown away.
Colin is "toxic positivity" defined.
Guy loves his slop
It sucks that we will never get an unbiased take from Colin regarding Naughty Dog. #1 defender. I mean look at the thumbnail.
I would assume people have more of a problem with the Intergalactic MC looking ugly rather than being a woman. Stellar Blade has a female MC that. I wonder if everyone that hates Eve loves "Jordan" and Vice Versa. Intergalactic had a horrible first impression but no gameplay yet so we shall see if it's a flop.
To me the problem is that she looks like a generic bald headed "badass" with an attitude. Now, maybe there are a lot of things we don´t know from the trailer and end up loving the character, but that reveal trailer was their oportunity to show us what it was all about and it came across, to me, as an unlikable character.
"I would assume people have more of a problem with the Intergalactic MC looking ugly rather than being a woman." That's not much better. You don't have to be biased to not care about a character not existing to be jacked off to. People have no shame anymore
Go ahead and pin this comment and call me out if I'm wrong.
Intergalatic will receive 8+ out of 10's across the board from Games Media but it will be Naughty Dogs worst selling game of the modern era PS3 and later excluding Uncharted 1. It will fail to meet any serious sales expectation and it's possible it loses money. It will be universally panned like Concord by user reviews.
How do I know this? Because we have games like Dragon Age Veilguard as the most recent example showing exactly why these games fail. There is not one game, nor even movie release to be frank that has reached critical acclaim that had these traits. Not a one.
This is also Neil Druckmans first game where its all his. TLOU was my game of the generation and it was lead by Bruce Straley, not Neil Druckman. Neil had A LOT of input, but Bruce was Vince McMahon to Neils Vince Russo during the attitude era in WWE prior to Vince Russo leaving and going to WCW to put that company out of business. McMahon took 1000 bad ideas and threw them away and took the 2 or 3 good ones and made them his own.
TLOU Part 2 was ruined by Neil, the hosts can downplay it to just being chuds complaining. I love Colin and these guys, I really do. But take the blinders off and go read reddit threads where it's broken down in detail. Colin defends Neil to epic proportions which is fine, but Neil was never the Director and the buck never stopped with him. It did with TLOU Part 2 and it was panned by user reviews. What other ND game in their history had that happen?
Who is still at ND that actually made them ND? Why did they leave? Let's see how this game plays out because:
This will be all on Neil.
It’s definitely gonna flop, I’m thinking dragon age/Star Wars outlaws flop rather than a concord style flop
Haha Lier.. Druckmann write the full Last of us, 1 and 2. It sold millions. The New game going to sell millions.
Haha Lier.. Druckmann write the full Last of us, 1 and 2. It sold millions. The New game going to sell millions.
@@backtakegrnn2714 Druckman did not have final say even with the story on TLOU 1. He wanted to kill Joel in TLOU 1 too. TLOU has sold almost 20 million, TLOU 2 has sold 10 which under performed by a lot.
It's ceiling is 8million copies, which will be a failure considering the budget. I think it's possible it sells as little as 3 million copies
The most ironic thing is that Brad quit Easy Allies and Colin ended up being a bigger woman than Ian.
LOL
You guys whine far more than either of them. lol
@@idakevLiar. Ian joined the troon outrage over Cyberpunk 2077
it’s been a long time since his “peace and quie” days apparently
Does anybody know what Chris does for a living? He's always tired, acts like a teenager, and doesn't have any meaningful contributions to conversations. Maybe Colin owns him something and has to keep him around.
2:37:46 I strongly disagree with him here.
I think most people see a game, think "this looks fun", then spend a few minutes on their phone to check the reviews before buying it because it doesn't cost any money to check reviews. Whereas, buying something without checking reviews is risky.
He's thirty, living in an apartment with multiple men and spends all day on the Internet. It's a stunted, soul crushing existence tbf
Ya I don't know
He takes COVID boosters for a living..😂
He sucks the joy out of the room
I dont mind the biasis held by the hosts but its becoming a rather repetitive echo chamber.
Niel Druckman is perfect, TLOU is the greatest ever, Halo TV, haha Dustin plays anime games... cmon guys
I found it especially hilarious when responding to the write in regarding Sony game leads all shifting to female and the retort was 'no they arent only these few examples...' to then list almost every long standing franchise.
Its not about Stellar Blade vs Interstellar. Its about Black Littlle Mermaid. The issue isnt the gender or race being represented, it's replacing existing beloved characters to do so.
Anyway, hope Patreon subs are saying the same coz i dont believe youtube comments get read. Although, Chris hasnt described his diet or sleeping habits lately...
"The issue isnt the gender or race being represented, it's replacing existing beloved characters to do so." And how have Sony done that exactly?
The "subvert expectation" decision of TLOU 2 isn't bold, it's just dumb. Abby's character is lame and we had to play with her for half the game. I've only played that game once which was when it came out and never again since, whereas I still replay TLOU 1 occasionally and I just got a ps5 with the remastered part 1 and am actually excited to play it. I could not care less about 2
Admit it, you loved playing with Abby
yeah sacred symbols becoming more skippable each week now
Yup. Haven't felt the urge to listen in well over a month.
@@NelsonMandela1millionyou just commented on this post? Lmfao
Its true to some extent that there is derangement. Is it also true that this comes off as a somewhat empty echo chamber of defensiveness towards Sony games and Friends? Yes. Also, are we at the point where we wonder what the hell does Chris truly offer other than 'personality' yet?
Intergalactic looks generic and derivative as all hell. People are allowed say this just based on what they have seen so far. Who didnt eye-roll when the girl pops in the CD? You're a decade too late for the whole pop space opera sci-fi theme, ND.
The strawman arguments are strong in this one.
There are no strawmens shut it
It's not a strawman. Just look at what the comments are flooded with on the Intergalactic trailer. All worried about gender and bald heads
@@JonathanDoryski Don't think I will and there's nothing you can do about it.
I find it funny. Chris uses arguments that work against him to prove his point. No one hated mirror's edge or tomb raider, because it's not just about playing as a woman. It's like the crew is intentionally making themselves stupid so they don't have to change their mind and understand the perspective of people who are upset.
@TheLuckyShepherd nor is TLOU "about" playing as a woman
Chris: “saints row sold pretty well”
The game that literally shut down the studio. Is Chris dumb?
Chris Gaygun is dumber than he looks which is saying a lot.
yes, chris is in fact very dumb
It sold more than the fourth game and continues to sell. Sounds like you're the dumb one for not knowing the numbers.
@@stevie9632 if it sold so well then why was the studio shut down?
Chris's brain is as tiny and malnourished as his body. 😂
The total inability to recognize the natural human preference for beauty over ugliness is astounding.
Yes, many people prefer to role play as physically appealing fictional video game characters. If you have transcended these mortal flesh and blood desires, congratulations. But your failure to understand that you are an outlier is moronic.
ff16 would have been a less enjoyable experience if Clive's character model were the elephant man. Him being cool and physically appealing absolutely contributed positively to the game. Japanese developers understand this. Western devs increasingly do not.
Luckily, the character in Intergalactic isn't or does not look like the elephant man.
Define ‘beauty’
@JoltinJoe the elephant man serves here as the most extreme, objective example of ugliness possible to underscore the point described earlier in the comment. I find it difficult to believe you don't understand how examples work.
@@lichtsa It is in the eye of the beholder, of course. And if you're curious about the eyes of most beholders, check out the like/dislike ratio on that teaser trailer.
@@rainmaker6261 I understand how examples work. Unfortunately, you chose a terrible one to make a point.
So has Colin got a mario/zelda derangement syndrome ? Not even Mario Odyssey was a good platformer according to him.
And before someone goes: well maybe he just doesnt like those games made recently... yeah and maybe we arnt exactly "amazed" by the last of us two AND naughty dogs just releasing remasters for the last of us games.
Mario Odyssey is one of the weaker 3D Mario, it barely qualifies as a platformer. It‘s an unfocused exploration game with collectibles bloat.
@@quezcatol Then why are you always talking about it? I never hear Colin talk about his dislike for those games.
@@SwordANDbored84confusing comment.
@@hass556 Well even if you feel that way, look at the competition: mario 64, sunshine and galaxy- these are some of the best platformers of all time.
You guys’ take on intergalactic is kind of showing that you’re kind of losing touch with “norma”l gamers … look at suicide squad, veil guard, the new assassins creed, that Sony game that just lost $200m (can’t even remember the name now cause it’s already irrelevant)
You’re no different from the hardcore feminists of the 2010s. Constantly crying and offended every time a new piece of media comes out. Obsessed with analyzing media and gender. Stop being so sensitive.
Concord lost $200 million plus for Sony (400 million total from the previous owner of the studio)
Can't believe Chris cited Suicide Squad as an example of a "successful" game that faced similar backlash. These people have completely lost the plot. If anything the LSM crew are the ones with anti-Naughty Dog derangement syndrome.
@@haitianxu Chris being one whole literally bashed it as well - the 180 cover up is surreal.
@@TheBlueGoldenHawk oh shit you’re right! I was too lazy to Google it so shot low, I’ll edit and correct 🤣
Colin talking about other people having a derangement syndrome over Naughty Dog. That's rich.
And he’s right too.
I miss the Colin from 7 years ago, when his performance of being a moderate logical dude was better. He's a woke supporter placating as a moderate. Lame ass.
We can thank Chris, Gene, and Jaffe for that
I laugh every time he calls himself a conservative. Shits hilarious.
Look at the people who he has surrounded himself with and you'll realise all his talk about games media being a left wing bubble and there being no space for anyone on the right has happened here also - only he's the one responsible.
Correction: Colin ain't woke, he just likes to protect his personal and maybe future business venture with his very very good friend Mr.Cuckman! The COPE and Denial is just a bonus in this episode!
@@redbargems355 - Same here. He definitely isn't conserving video games...he applauds every time they're destroyed by activists and lashes out on anyone who has a problem with it.
At first I was pumped about the ending Naughty Dog conversation, but much like the infamous 2-part TLOU2 spoilercast, lots of words were said yet nothing was said at all.
Bruce Straley has been scrubbed from Naughty Dog history.
I know it's insane. He was the Director on TLOU. Full Stop. The only titles Neil had full control over was TLOU Part II and now this. Sheer coincidence I'm sure that these two games have HUGE fan blowback.
@@nextjinThat is factual not true. Neil isn't the sole director on TLoU2. Three people are listed as Directors on the game. Stop spreading misinformation just to feed your anger.
@@AnthonyMcNeil Go read interviews and watch the making ofs. Then answer this question:
Who had final say on all matters in TLOU Part I and who had final say on all matters in TLOU Part II?
Don't pawn off semantics as an excuse for Druckman and blame the hate/backlash on Margenau and Newman because they clearly wouldn't tell Druckman no. Straley did, Straley is the reason Joel even survived the first game.
@@nextjin Neil was the creative director and sole writer for TLOU1. Doesn't matter if that fact annoys you
@@idakev it doesn’t matter what his title was, my original point stands. He only had ultimate responsibility for TLOU 2 and now this game and both have gotten brutal customer blowback and sales are trending down.
That’s not a coincidence.
For TLOU Part 1, Bruce had final say and prevented Neil from going down this insane path.
People are not upset because it's another game as a woman. They're upset because it's another masculine woman! And one who comes off completely cringe, she doesn't know how to use a head buzzer and slurps her soda while someone else is trying to talk. Whether that was a man or a woman doing it, that would be cringe and annoying. Then talk about the product placement. It's hard to find anything to like about the trailer, and that's what people are unhappy about. Pretending people are upset about the game because it's a woman or simply because it's naughty dog, is either intellectually dishonest or just pure ignorant.
Furthermore, when you think about it, they tried to have her using the buzzer to make her look tough and cool and ironically she's using it wrong because the people who are writing her don't know what it means to be tough and cool. So this just tells me that the only part of the game that can end up well is the gameplay itself, I have no hopes for the story or characters because the writers are apparently cringe and woke. And I feel like if Colin wasn't friends with Neil, the whole panel would be more likely to realize and admit this. They would have been better off not bringing up the subject, Colin is obviously too close to Neil to admit any of the faults of naughty dog or specifically this game. This is equivalent to the thing Colin has complained about in the past, games journalists reviewing games for a certain studio and then going to work for that studio. Might not be in the same lane but it's driving right next to it.
I didnt think she was cringe at all. I liked the trailer a lot actually (weird product placement aside). There is a large portion of the vocal internet that think every game HAS to appeal to them for some reason? There are tons of games that dont appeal to me visually and stuff, but I dont go around talking about it. I just move on and play the things I like.
@MrPanncakes to each their own. I think people go too far on both sides. I remember when people were calling WatchDogs 2 cringe and woke but that's my favorite game and nothing about it is woke or cringe. I just found the slurping sodapop over the lady talking was a childish cringe that was supposed to come off like some cool Nathan Drake moment but it would have been eye rolling for me, man or women.
You could easily say the exact same thing about Han Solo!!! He was arrogant as hell!!!
We all know you're mad because the main character isn't making your pee pee happy!!!
Colin has slowly but surely created his own echo chamber.
He’s now on a banning spear so watch out
@@cammoses4464 just like Kinda Funny huh? How ironic 😂. I've already cancelled my Patreon a few weeks ago so it's all good. I'm done supporting the show till there's some diversity of thought.
@sam805236 the sad part is you are serious
@@sam805236you come off like a very fragile male
@@sam805236they disagree on tons of topics hahaha just cause they agree on one doesn’t make it an echo chamber. You’ll be a long time waiting if you’re waiting for 3 people to disagree on every single topic 😂
I love how the first chat on every episode is about Chris’ sleep/energy lol
I would be upset if I didn't hear about it at this point.
His sleep and energy is just so hard to manage he’s a really busy guy.
Its the new "just for full disclosure, I own microsoft stock"
It's an excuse to be lame
This episode of Three Midwits at the Strawman Factory was extra cringe. It's embarrassing that even with all three of you pitching in, you can't carry this Naughty Dog charade to its conclusion. Even when handpicking the few details around the Last of Us 2 leaks and skipping over how awfully Naughty Dog handled that. How they used corporate muscle and systematically went after peoples livelihoods just for talking about the leaks was oddly completely omitted once again when talking about why people have problems with ND and Druckmann. Colin then put on his terrible logic cap, does a thinking and concludes; It's racism, clearly. This level of dishonesty is wild to see, even from Colin.
But keep talking down to your audience, it has worked so well every time others have tried it.
INDEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said
Dam i forgot that happened thanks for the reminder
You all have become disconnected from the common person. Sad. I miss knockback, but....maybe it's best to just walk away from LSM?
Walk away incel
The guide Colin used to play through TLOU2 told him it was good, no one will ever change his mind now.
The fact that you guys are admitting that Intergalactic will sell less than prior ND games is an admittance that you aren’t impressed with what you have seen
@@SleeplessSpecter or maybe they’ve seen the reaction towards the game and can make a reasonable prediction on how well it will sell
Yes they have time to change it to a man so that the gay men get what they want.😂
@@Jjcbgoati thought we were just the loud minority of losers tho?
@@honchoreckless4180 I’ve never called you or anyone else a “loud minority” nor am I excited for intergalactic so I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish with your straw man argument lol
@@honchoreckless4180 I’ve never called you or anyone else a “loud minority” nor am I excited for intergalactic so I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish with your straw man argument lol