Black Velaryons: Why This is A Good Idea
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2022
- There are a couple of great ways that Black Velaryons can work with the canon - and not just 'work,' but make both Corlys and the story overall more interesting. I will tell you all about it in this video!
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NOTE: any comments with even a **whiff** of racism or right-wing world-salad bullshit about ‘wokeness’ or virtue signaling will either be removed or ridiculed, per my prerogative. That sort of thing isn’t welcomed here. Thank you, carry on.
EDIT: "Your responsibility as a channel owner is to create a space where people can engage with the subject matter, have a good time, be themselves, and not have to dredge through racist comment pollution. That's how you actually create the conditions for speaking freely ie free speech." From a friend. This is the point exactly.
✊🏿
I really appreciate how you're taking a hard stance against these assholes. Keep doing what you're doing, and I am excited to see what you have in store for us in the future 👍
I'm so glad that you're not having at all. Like, at all...! UA-cam is already toxic enough and it makes your content, comment sections, chats so much more enjoyable without these neck bearded dudes, who call themselves the silent majority. When in fact, they're the never shut up minority that's just very loud..
Again, thank you for being this principled on this topic!
🤘🔥🖤
@@RobHel yeah you know they want to turn every tv show and movie into their culture war proving ground and I’m just not here for it. Simple as that. They spread their filth everywhere they can. Not on my page though.
I thought that it was a genius move to make the Velaryons black. It distinguishes them from Targaryans. If they were all white with white hair, then it will look like they are all Targaryans. But them sharing that signature white hair with Targaruans plants that idea that they are from the same place ( Valyria ) but them being black immediately visually tells you that we shouldn't confuse them for Targaryans.
Thank you 🙏🏾 😊someone has common sense
didnt even think of that but that makes a lot of sense too. Regardless, the actors are good and it hasn't affected the story any more than some of the other minor plot changes.
yes !
And Valyrians were not from Westeros, they were from Essos so it could explain very well why there is variety in their bloodline.
When adapting a book to a tv show there are many changes visually that must be made to help convey the story better. This was one of them, which will be incredibly important later in the series if there are any dragon rider vs dragon rider fights like in the books. When someone is flying on the back of a dragon it is already hard enough to tell who's who, so this change may make that easier.
As a black man and a lifelong fantasy fan, I cannot express how appreciative I am of videos and viewpoints like this. Your points are apt, also. Go dubs.
This ☝🏽
I'm not black but I am also a lifelong fantasy fan and I've been disgusted with the racism around the HoD and LotR casting. How small minded do you have to be to get so outraged from seeing a fantasy character played by an POC? I'm glad that they're being called out by UA-camrs like LML and Grey. And they they've taken the time to show that the casting decisions absolutely don't affect the integrity of the source material
@@annafield3136 definitely agree, if the actors/actresses give the character life and give the mentality of the book character justice, skin color shouldn't be overly important no matter if it goes with the authors story or not, that's the reason I feel people get upset tho, can't handle show writers not going 100% with the story that's written(maybe ptsd from dnd lol), I get the view point sure just don't matter to me enough to throw a fit about it
@@annafield3136 it's not about them casting ppl of color. It's the woke narrative being forced into shows beloved by many that end up changing the dynamic.
At the end of the day...color only matters in our world...if it doesn't change the lore, the dialogue, the juxtaposition, so on and so forth...then it shouldn't matter.
If people are concerned ab Corlys being "too black" despite having one white parent, take this into consideration: "Daenerys Targaryen's inbreeding coefficient is 0.375. Charles ii, the last spanish Habsburg, who was impotent, drooled, mentally distabled and could barely walk, had a coefficient of 0.254."
Why am I laughing 😂
Not sure what you mean by that my g
Is a coefficient of 1 like, 10 generations of sibling offspring?? 👁👄👁
@@bvbs5572 he mean that you can fuck off with aCtUalL GeNeTics cuz if that would be really the case Daenerys would be a fucking mess of a person...
@@bvbs5572 The seed is strong! The seed does leg day!
That Martin said genes work differently to real life in ASOIAF
He’s faaaabulous. The moment he appeared on screen, it just worked. I find it to blend perfectly, all the actors were so well chosen
Agreed!!!
This is why i love GRR, he was thoughtful about each race and population. It wasn't about diversity it was about reflecting a deep world full of complex people and interactions. Diversity is just a natural outcome of humanity.
Absolutely! Love those silvery white dreadlocks! ❤
Somebody needs to give the casting director a raise. Every actor is perfect.
As a Black man I was in tears when you broke this down. Not because of nostalgia or wokeness. But because your presentation was so spot on and makes sense. You bring clarity and a gravitas to this discussion. You don’t suck from it. This should be shown everywhere in how to make a presentation based on common sense and humanity. Thank you. Also for me it just make tv sense with no violation. People will be able to differentiate the houses clearly. Thank you🔥✊🏾💯
They could have used costumes to differentiate the houses.
thank you Mike, that really means a lot. It can be intimidating to put yourself out there on an issue that you know will draw hate or controversy, but I really tried to just speak on the issue as clearly as I could. I grew up on northern Virginia, definitely a melting pot area, and the pure ignorance and meanness of racism has always just irritated the fuck out of me. I definitely wasn't going to walk away from the issue if these sort of trolls were going to try to rear their head in the GoT fandom. The obvious sense of a Velaryon - Summer Islander link and George's involvement in the show make any sort of canonical objection basically absurd, which pretty much just leaves some sort of inherent bias against diversity in media.
@@DavidLightbringer Courage moves me and not just about race. In my opinion you have stepped out virtually alone for what’s right. That’s the point and that the courage. It’s always a risk to stand up for truth. I am here to support you.
@@richierich7229 you would've liked that more?
@@richierich7229 they could have. But they didn’t. It’s amazing how people like to present other “could haves” instead of accepting what they did.
Noble marriage was all about sealing political alliances. The summer islands have a stable monarchy and nobility system. This wouldn't be some casual fling with a summer islander it would be a rather normal noble arranged marriage, but only a house heavily involved in maritime trade would be interested in it as they are the only ones that gain from it. A marriage without gains is a lost opportunity and thus has an opportunity cost in medieval marriages for both the summer island nobles and westeros nobles so maintaining profitable trade deals makes it a good opportunity for a house focused on trade.
@@tokendaley3218 TV adaptation. The summer isles are a formidable naval power and top notch sailors in the books.
I might be wrong, but the Valyrians that favored bloodline purity were the Dragon Lords. I don’t remember House Velaryon being dragon riders, just classified as Valyrians
Both the daughter and son of Corlys ride dragons.
Not all Valyrians were dragon lords.
@@petrmaly9087 Because Rheanys is their mother. Their children are half Targaryen.
Addam Velaryon was a dragon rider though, and he may or may not have recent Targaryen blood.
I thought the Valyrians taught the Targareons how to ride dragons
Why does white hair and black skin look so good together? Like seriously, Storm from X-men’s look is iconic too
Contrast in colors, you cant have a greater contrast then black and white
Contrast
Brown skin but yes color contrast looks nice
Oh, I like the idea that Corlys was the greatest sailor ever because he could combine seafaring prowess from two seperate cultures. It’s like imagining how good Sarella Sand must be at using poisonous arrows…
That point was great
I think it was a really good decision. As someone who hasn’t read the books, I wouldn’t be able to tell who came from what family. It’s already kind of confusing.
Usually I am for keeping the original races of characters but, Valyria was close to the summer isles, so even in lore it kinda makes sense that there would be darker skinned valyrians, ofcourse the actor playing Corlys killed it so I was totally supportive immediately, it took me 10 minutes to find it extremely cool.
@@siddharthbirdi also black dudes with silver dreads just looks badass
tbf, even in fire and blood there isnt really any mention of the velaryons' skin color, or that all valerians were white. its just not mentioned, and probably done bc grrm had different "races" (how we see it, though idk if would be considered the same in old valyria) in his mind when he created those house anyway
@@siddharthbirdi Yeah. Valyrians aren't really native to Valyria either, they migrated there during (barely) recorded history. So it can easily be justified that the white Valyrians arrived from the north overland, and the black Valyrians arrived from the south via ship. (This would also explain why the Velaryons aren't dragonlords, but have always been in charge of the Targaryen Navy.
Oh you are gonna appreciate this change much more in episode 6. Ties directly into plotline. Love the dreads on the Velaryons. Very badass
While watching interviews with Steve, he seems to have inherited the characteristics of Corlys in that he's successful and doesn't really care about the controversy
Haha 100%
Corlys' paternal grandmother is also unknown, so there are potentially two generations of Summer Island ancestry in Corlys' backstory
She was of First men ancestry seeing as Alyssa Veleryon is his aunt in F&B
In medieval Europe, it was common practice to squire or otherwise train with your maternal uncle. Which in Corlys' case would be cool as hell. Imagine he spent a couple of his teenage years learning the ways of swan ships. That would make a ton of sense!
It actually says so in the book!
"It was traditional for the sons of the seahorse (the sigil of House Velaryon) to be given a taste of a seafarer's life when young, but no Velaryon before or since ever took to shipboard life as eagerly as the boy who would become the Sea Snake. He first crossed the narrow sea at the age of six, sailing to Pentos *with* *an* *uncle* ." [emphasis mine]
Wait, why only the Maternal and not the Paternal Uncle? Genuinely curious?
@@thalmoragent9344 I believe it was to keep family relations tight. Women were effectively given away to their husbands, so there's some good reasons for them to try and keep the kids invested in their maternal relations, and vice versa. It makes your web of alliances bigger and not just patrilineal families fighting each other.
@@thalmoragent9344 because your mom’s brother is always the bad ass of the family! 😂 or it just seems that way?
@@thalmoragent9344 because your mom’s brother is always the bad ass of the family! 😂 or it just seems that way?
I wonder if the people complaining that Steve’s skin tone is ‘too dark’ for Corlys to have just one Black parent also complained about the actor for Grey Worm, who is also supposed to be from the Summer Islands, having lighter skin. They probably didn’t even notice that because they don’t care about ‘Whiteness’ in Black characters, only ‘Blackness’ in White characters. Honestly any outrage about this is completely ridiculous. Tbh it doesn’t even need explanation but I like your explanation! :)
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I'll say most of the people I know who complain about this stuff are consistent. They want the person to be 100% like the books.
plus George rr Martin said the unsullied isn't supposed to be a racial thing
I know a guy irl who passes as black and he has a white mom. He’s technically coloured but he really looks like he could have two black parents. Mixed people can just look like anything to be honest. It’s pretty random
Right. Not all mixed people look like Zendaya. Some can favor one race over the other.
Valyra is also pretty close to the summer islands, it’s likely they have had contact since ancient times, as soon as they were able to cross the ocean, Valyria would have been one of the first places they landed.
who is to say there were no dark skinned valyrians though?
@@strawbawrri249 well based on their geography and the people who inhabit the areas near valyria, you'd expect the valyrians to be kind of Mediterranean looking at the start
But the empire was supposed to be thousands of years old, so that provides an aeon of time for intermarriages between valyrians and summer islanders
Eventually it would be expected to see loads of black valyrians :)
@@vergil8833 ....wat?
i think its the closes landmass to them... they are cultural sailors... even irl you have examples of stuff like Norse people colonizing north america.... i dont really get your point or tone...
@@vergil8833 actually there was more travel in the medieval period than is generally thought
Some people would have never left their village, but most people would have undertaken long pilgrimages multiple times in their lives.
Pilgrimages were a core part of medieval European culture, a defining element.
People would travel on foot hundreds (or at times thousands of miles) relying on hospitality from locals, hospitals (the original meaning) and sometimes inns if they had money.
On these journeys they would see many places within their home country, or even across Europe and the Levant if they went to the holy land.
Outside of pilgrimages, the common folk of port towns and capitol cities would meet foreign traders and sailors regularly.
The sailors in particular would be well travelled and used to interacting with lots of people from different countries at port.
Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales" is an example of contemporary literary evidence
At the time people of all walks of life did pilgrimages it was a regular thing.
@Virgil What a weird hill to die on.
It wouldn’t make sense to look at a medieval inspired fantasy world through the lense of modern racism. Discrimination in a historical sense was more based on culture, on whether someone was foreign. The Roman were the same race as the Germans yet the Germanic tribes were seen as barbaric savages.
There were also black Romans too. Septimus Severus was noticeably dark skinned and born in Libya in a Roman province and he became emperor. It also kind of makes sense that a continent spanning polity would have people that don't look exactly the same on it. Look at Asia, Africa, and South America. All of them have populations that are very diverse in appearance, skin tone, hair and eye color, etc.
@@danieldaw1778 further in ancient history, Aethiopia (Ethiopia) was allied to Troy during the Trojan War. King Memnon fought against the Greeks but fell to Achilles. There is a lost epic dedicated to him that was called Aethopis, it's chronologically after the Illiad. "According to Quintus Smyrnaeus, Memnon said himself that he was raised by the Hesperides on the coast of Oceanus. Memnon dwelling on the western Ocean and his father being driven there would make him the son of dawn (the east) as in the son of Troy." His father is believed to have been from Troy.
Race is more or less a cultural construct. Romans saw the blue eye, blondes as savages as opposed to their Olive skin and brown eyes and hair
Soo nationalism...
@@danieldaw1778 Septimius Severus may not have been white for modern standards, but nor he was black according to modern standards. At most, he would have kinda looked like a Middle Eastern/Northern African of modern standards. But the main problem is that all these are modern standards. The continuos applying of modern standards to the past is sickening to me. Yes, the Romans noticed skin colour, but they had not a system of races based on skin colour and certainly they do not have a concept of racial superiority based on skin color. The ancient world was certainly a discriminatory place, but discrimination was mainly cultural: "the foreign culture with its foreign gods and language and laws is bad" kinda thing. Now, it's only logical that an Empire that stretched across three continents would have had a lot of different colours inside of it. But stop acting like it is a big deal. It was not. It is according to modern standards, and applying modern standards in the way we look at the past is sickening. Also, the Romans never conquered lands inhabited by a majority of blacks (according to the modern standard of black), so that colour would have been a very small minority, present mostly in the African provinces. Black present in the other provinces probably would have not likely been generals or senators, but most likely servants or even slaves, at most merchants. I'm sorry but as far as we know historically it is like that. Middle Eastern/Northern African's colours were more present and those people also became governors and literates and even Emperors. But that was probably not the case with plain blacks. So, if in the future I will see a black roman general commanding armies in Britannia in some film, I reserve my right to say "That's bullshit" without considering me racist
Another (practical) advantage: it makes them more distinguishable. I don't know if other people have this as well, but I personally always found it very hard to distinguish all these Targaryen and Valyrians. Because there are so many, because their names are often very similar and sometimes even literally the same (Aegon), etcetera. I'm hoping that having the Velaryons played by black actors, will make the show more easy to follow.
Right? The Targs have maybe seven names between them, and that's not even including the dragons! People had a hard enough time when it was only Dany - to this day it's a coin toss whether the people I know IRL who genuinely enjoyed the show and stuck with it to the (stupid) bitter end can get her name right or just give up and call her "Khaleesi".
honestly, thats probably why they did it lmfao. Film and tv think more about these stuff more than we think.
@@godofchaoskhorne5043 dude i wasnt thinking the same shii
@@godofchaoskhorne5043 bro WHAT. That isn't nearly the samething XD. Why are you comparing people with objects?
But the point is, they are the same. Clothing can be distinguishing factor, hence all the colours and banners that are so important in-universe.
I like that it made the Strong bastard plot so much more obvious. It added more depth by transforming it from being an unspoken rumour to being an obvious and unavoidable truth that the king stubbornly refuses to see.
i think it also helps distinguish targs from valeryons. having so much of the cast be white haired white skinned would just be confusing.
personally i like the decision a lot. corlys is cool as hell.
I was thinking that too, it's kind of a smart choice visually
Ik but it doesnt follow up with the lore itself
Aegon and his sisters are both half targaryen and half valeryon
I mean it looks cool to not make them like the targaryens since they look at the same but atleast change it to only corlys and his brother and not the entire valeryon bloodline
@@willg1088 not mention rogar, Jaehaerys and all of his siblings mother is a valeryon so shouldn't they be black or light skin as well
On George's blog, he discusses an idea he'd had to make the invading Targaryens black, but keeping the sort of fantasy style silver hair/purple eyes. With his heavy involvement on the show, I wonder if these Velaryon choices came from that idea.
I was thinking about that. What if, given Martin's idea, they retcon the TV show world so that black is the Valyrian norm and the Targaryens are the outlier? The Velaryons would then be more representative of a standard valyrian. I wouldn't put money on that being how they will go about it but it's at least a slight possibility.
yeah I think the intermarriages are the thing which means it will probably be "just Corlys's mom" who is black - I actually forgot that Alyssa Velaryon was the mother of Boremund Baratheon, whom they've cast as white on the show.
I always linked dragonblood with tar-black, but I read the 13th&15th century 'Song of Kudrun' as a child, and reread it lately and there it is explictly stated that the heroes Sigmund and his son Sigfrid were black skinned, because they had bathed in Dragon-blood and the dragonmagic soaked into them like tar.
Because of this I expected the Targaryens to at least bleed tar-black, if they didn't look the part, but later excused the lack of Tar in the Garyens, with them after so much blood-mixing being more weirwoodish than dragonish. But this casting brings back my Dragonblood-preconception, and is PERFECT.
@@MagnaMater2 why would a European quote a black man in this song? this doesn't make any sense, if that were the case they wouldn't have been so racist in the future but they were already big fans of their skin
@@uilustra6364 Sigfried in the Kudrunlied follows the topos of the noble and honourable foreigner, that is despised (and killed) for being a stranger, and daring to claim a princess and reaching for a crown. To be tar-skinned and a great warrior makes him stand out in the crowd as 'special' and the focus of envy and hatred.
The 'Lay of Kudrun' was written during the crusades for people that needed international geographical knowledge. It most likely belonged to the widowed german queen Elizabeth of Wittelsbach, whose foremother Agnes of Loon claimed to be a descendant from the Nibelungs as well as from Troy - (and since Aeneas lived a while in Africa also from Africans. - Agnes' court-minstrel Henrik of Veldeke had produced similar international adventure-stories the armenian Saint Servatius that met Attila's huns and ended up bishop in the Netherlands and a version of the Aeneid, that would have knotted in the legend of Troy with frankish Troyes, had he not died ere finishing it.)
The book of Kudrun seems to have been well known in germanic languages, versions of it were far spread - I read it even has a jiddish version found in Kairo. It has an international flair might have been popular with bavarian pilgrims and crusaders and travelling musicians (it has a begging-refrain, whenever a feast is mentioned, it wastes a lot of words on what the lord gave to the minstrels and musicians) is very weird in many aspects: not only talking Harpys from Ireland abducing oriental princesses into their nests, one of them even dragged all the way from India to Ireland.
The Tyrolian book-version has also a renaissance 'editing-problem': it has been found in an deplorable state in a castle and had been copied and partly rewritten on the order of Maximilian I around 1510 - and he employed 'moorish' dancers from Spain in his court, that are clearly depicted as people of African descent. Styling himself as legal heir to the Roman Emperors, Maximilian would have also wanted an international flair in a book he had preserved for his grandchildren, who should reclaim all formerly Roman territories, including northern Africa. (Maximilian himself didn't even manage to get a standing army from his local princes). From about his time came also the first 'people mirrors', that should educate the princes about all the tribes they ruled over, or had borders with, and are extremely uncharming and full of generalisations and preconceptions against European neighbours and emperial subjects. These books are the beginning of racism, once they were printed and spread.
And don't make a mistake about European racism, and back-reflect colonial racism into a time without colonies: European racism in the medieval and renaissance times is mainly a religious racism: if you're a catholic and join the prayers thrice a day, you're in-group, if you are not, you are out-group (and should either be baptized or killed, unimportant if you come from Scandinavia, Lithuania, Arabia or Africa - or are a local Jew or other Heretic). European racism is also tribal and local: It's main enemies are the neighbouring people - in short: all people that don't speak your language, and those live in Europe already in the next valley or across the river.
George has already established that children can take almost entirely after one parent rather than being a hybrid. Ned is nothing like either of his brothers, either internally or externally. I suspect he is pretty much entirely Flint. Just as Stannis is unlike either of his brothers, with only the dominance of the Baratheon hair coloration coming from the Baratheon line.
Ned mother was an Flint?
Baratheon men are actually unusually similar to each other, even Stannis. He's thin and austere, yes, but he's still very tall, with striking blue eyes, black hair, strong jaw and stubborn, strong temper and personality (Ours is the Fury, indeed). Pretty much all the Baratheons are like this, from Robert's bastard kids to Orys Baratheon all those centuries ago (though Orys had black eyes; they probably got blue eyes from Argella Durrandon). Not all of them party hard like Robert or Lyonel the Laughing Storm, but they're temperamental dudes who just can't sit out any big event.
If anything it was Renly who kind of sticks out in this family. Most Baratheons were more "iron gauntlet" than "silk glove", as Varys put it.
@@saikeenra I think that in the case of Stannis, a lot of Targ is hidden under the coloration. He has a daughter who has dragon dreams and to whom a giant kneels unbidden, calling her queen.
@@MrVictor1227 That would be Lyarra. I don't think she's ever mentioned by name in the books, but George has confirmed her name and her house.
@@spideregg I'm pretty sure Arya mentions a flint grandmother at some point.
My great grand father was listed on his WW2 draft card as 'Mulatto'. His skin was probably the same shade as the actor's. He had jet black, fine, wavy hair, and a long, skinny nose. There are dark skinned bi-racial people, more than what most would assume.
Aint no one naming a dark black male in WW2 Mulatto. I'm calling cap.
@@kingslim2870 Lol, how is that cap? I look mixed race, and both my parents are East African. My father, for a fact, is very dark-skinned, and my mother is light skin with no European ancestry. Also, I took a 23 and me and Ancestry DNA test, and my results were 100% Subsaharan African; basically, all of it was from East Africa, North-East Africa and South-east Africa. Also, for the first 7 years of my life, I was super light skin, and around 8 years old, I was pretty dark skin until the age of 15, and now my skin is a mid-light brown colour. My point is that skin tone isn't a big deal, and it's super weird and dumb how human beings fixate on it when we're all the same species with a common ancestor.
I'm half black. My daughter has blonde hair and sky blue eyes and very pale skin that tans during summer beautifully. DNA is a funny thing and does not obey stereotypes.
@@kingslim2870 always the ones that say “ cap” to everything is the most uneducated ones
@@amaracrow0501 Aww, she sounds beautiful. That's like my younger cousin. He's a quarter black, and has pale skin that tans really well and golden streaked curls.
Im not thinking about his race. Im thinking about how the crabfeeder is making corlys broke. Thats good writing.
I suppose that their blackness adds to the magical aspect of Valyrians. White, silver hair is innately unnatural.
I don't know why the Valyrian characters in the TV shows don't have purple eyes, though. It takes away from the magic. It adds to the godly aspect of the Valyrians.
Well, one thing to consider is that the track record for contacts on fantasy shows is that they don’t look good. See: the Witcher
I would consider that the unnatural look adds to the mistery of Valyria, but hey, that's just my opinion haha
@@DavidLightbringer Agreed. Realistically done it might be too subtle to be seen save in super-close shots, and if exaggerated would look utterly ridiculous. Neon purple eyes would look bizarre. It's a pretty reasonable accommodation to realism and practicality.
@@xaviermontesdeoca2440 the people of the Solomon island look like this look it up
@@xaviermontesdeoca2440 and the Melanesians also look like this
I think he looks badass personally & with him having family hailing from the Summer Isles, it's actually not a stretch at all. Looking forward to seeing his performance, I really hope we get some good flashbacks of his early days & travels!
If there is a spinoff series - I wonder if there could be some flashforwards showing Arya treading in his footsteps? That'd be interesting and draw attention. Honestly, though - no series is going to give me what I want - to examine the detailed chronologies which are kept by the Empire of Yi Ti that could clarify some elements of the deep timeline... the phrase 'most accurate unbroken records' is probably among the most exciting in TWOIAF
It IS a stretch, actually. A high lord of Westeros will only marry a daughter of another high lord of Westeros and not some nobody from the Summer Isles. And in this case it's even worse because the Velaryons want to keep their Valyrian looks so they can keep breeding with the Targs. They won't even marry a Princess of Dorne not to talk of a Summer Islander with no name. They can obviously bed them but it doesn't make sense for them to marry them. You can say Corlys is a bastard child that was legitimized but that is just stretching. The lore is set and Corlys is not white. They just made him black because they wanted to and now we are all here trying to make sense of it.
@@jwg72 😂that would be awesome
@@celter.45acp98 the same place it’s written that he was white…oh right it’s written no where.
@@celter.45acp98 your right Alyn isn’t black…because hes not corlys son.
Black Velaryons… Black Valyrians in general make perfect sense because literally everyone from Essos is a variation of tan/brown skin. Couple that with the fact that Valyria ruled over Essos for centuries and was a melting pot of many empires and cultures… it’s weirder that there wouldnt be Black Valyrians
agree
This is my take exactly. It makes sense for anything closer to Essos/summer isles to have more of a darker complexion
Atleast they are not giving a predominantly underground living people known for mining some extra natural skin protection in the form of melanin 👀
At first it didn’t make sense to me But now it do
The Velaryons being black adds to the awe of valyrians and adds to the fact they, along with the targaryens and celtigars, are foreigners to westeros. I believe George said in an interview he almost wishes me made the targaryens black or at least thinks it would've been interesting because it emphasises they are not native to westeros
@@jasonpeters617 🤡🤡🤡
@@jasonpeters617 🤡 CLOWN ALERT 🤡
I hope they explore the culture and aspects of the Summer Islands. Show off the island's famous bows and arrows. Show some political support from the islands to the Velaryons (navy, for example).
Goldenheart Bows and Swan Ships are what help make the Summer Islandsers famed as both some of the best Archers and Sailors in the Asoiaf World.
Yes thanks you people.
I have certainty that the Summer Islands mode of worship is part of them controlling winds.
I really hated how D&D deleted Summer Islanders from the show.
Credit to GRRM doing an African inspired cultured people that I'd wish fantasy settings actually do.
It's going to be amazing if they do!
I really like the change it really makes them look out of this world like the Valyrians were supposed to be
Black Corlys is ayt in my book, the actor's performance is ultimately what matters most and black Corlys fucking DELIVERS.
so nice to wake up to a bunch of positive comments on this video today, that's not always the case. The racists are like weeds
@@DavidLightbringer I don't think it's particularly racist if he ISNT black in the books, similar to how people get mad at Dragonball Evolution for casting a white guy as Goku instead of an asian. Tho as a non book reader, I have no idea what color they are in the books nad I personally really like the actor playing corlys a lot so it's a win for me.
Idk why people were grumpy. His dark skin and white af hair looks super beautiful. It's such a stark contrast that it's very visually stunning.
House Velaryon being of potentially lower status makes sense: Valyria didn't have a fleet. Valyria wouldn't have great admirals, they'd be looked at as base merchants. Even exploration would be primarily a dragon rider's job, not a sailor. So Velaryon & Celtigar being that far out when the Doom happened would be because they were lower status, farther from the capital.
@Bionick Toa exept viscerys said they had the greatest fleet ever.
@@popkhorne5372 Viserys was feeding Dany Targ propaganda. I would paint anything he says as suspect.
Not because it isn't true that Valyria had the greatest fleet, but that we can't know one way or the other if the only source is his mouth.
Direct Summer Islander ancestry for Corlys and the Velayrons could be really interesting and cool worldbuilding as described in the video but we shouldn't forget that there are black characters in other parts of the world, namely in Braavos. In fact, there are native black Braavosi that helped found Braavos.
Passages from The World of Ice and Fire about the different races that started Braavos
"It is clear that Braavos is unique among all of the Free Cities, as it was founded not by the will of the Freehold, nor by its citizens, but instead by its slaves. According to the tales of the Braavosi, a huge slaver fleet that had out been collecting tributes in human flesh from the lands of the Summer and Jade seas, became victim to a slave uprising instead."
"...Seizing control of the fleet but realizing there was no place nearby to hide from the Freehold, the slaves instead elected to seek out some land far from Valyria and its subjects, and founded their own city in hiding…"
"The Braavosi were a people who were no people. Scores of races, a hundred tongues, and hundreds of gods. All they had in common was a Valyrian that formed the common trade language of Essos, and the fact that they were now free, where once they had been slaves."
"Since the escaped slaves came from many lands and held many faiths, the founders of Braavos created a place where all gods were given their due, and decreed that none would ever be made paramount of another. They were a diverse people, whose numbers included Andals, Summer Islanders, Ghiscari, Naathi, Rhoynar, Ibbenese, Sarnori, and even debtors and criminals of pure Valyrian blood."
Point being, The Velayrons could have married some dark skinned Braavosi Sealords that were the descendants of Summer Islander or Naathi that escaped Valyrian slavery. And we know from Fire and Blood that the modern Velayrons were interested in marrying Braavosi, as Corlys arranged a marriage between his daughter Laena and the son of a Braavosi Sealord. Whose to say this kind of arrangement didn't happen before, with some Braavosi with dark skin?
oh hey that's a great insight! You're totally correct, that could also work well. I had a feeling I wasn't thinking of everything. Cheers and thanks!
That would be really cool. As a house that focuses on trade, it would make sense for a Velaryon to marry a Braavosi, since Braavos is one of the biggest trading hubs in their world.
Genius!! Love This, Being A Black Man. Great This Concept.
There are also dark-skinned Dornish, I’m pretty sure. They’re called the Salty dornishmen
I think it was dope that they cast black actors as the Velaryon House. It makes sense with the dragon seed Nettles who was black with brown hair but somehow was able to ride the dragon Sheepstealer.
They HAVE to tie that in or it will be such a waste.
Veleryons aren’t Dragon riders
@@iangallagher5448 They don't have dragon eggs themselves, but some of them are dragonriders. For example, Corlys' bastard son, Addam of Hull
@@Hana9916 Actually Alyn was unable to claim a dragon but Addam claimed Seasmoke which was the Dragon of Laenor meaning that more than likely Seasmoke found similarity between Addam and Laenor rather that be look or blood
@@aedenali5985 I think it may just be the Sea snakes mother was a summer islander because one of his aunts was Alyssa Velaryeon who is the Mother of Alysanne and Jaehearys meaning that every Targ till the dance should all look black seeing as since her they’ve only married each other. If they make just him and his immediate family black it may only change the race of King Daeron and King Baelor the Blessed
Having finally watched it, I have no idea why people are still complaining. It really does feel like "woke = brown people" when it comes to fantasy and as a brown person who loves fantasy, it's incredibly disappointing to see how widespread this notion is... Medieval Europe had brown people, Medieval Europe was around by countries of brown people, brown people migrated to Medieval Europe, and Medieval Europe traded with brown people, so I never understood the point of "It's Medieval Europe, of course brown people don't exist!". It makes even less sense in the context of Game of Thrones to complain when we have places like Dorne already and there being several people of other races that exist within the series. Anyways, that's how I feel about this annoying conversation and seeing it be brought up every other week.
There are no acounts of black people migrating to medieval Europe. Theres no point for such a migration because medieval Europe was a shithole at the time being very backward and superstitious. there were just very very few black people in Europe before the 'modern' age. I haven't read up to on it allot but what I do know is that there were small populations of blacks in large cities but those only numbered in the hundreds.
Brown and black are different things and no, there were no black people in Medieval Europe. Even today it's a rare thing to see a black person in Eastern Europe for example (and those in the West arrived only after the colonisation). This is not a racist comment or anything, just saying. And I feel that most people complain not because there is ethnic diversity in HoTD, but because for the moment it seems a bit random and not so regionally defined.
@@Terter1551there were NO black people in medieval europe? What about the Ethiopians in the Byzantine court?
“Black and Brown are different things”
You know what he meant, stop acting obtuse.
Many Westerosi (both book and show) are quite predjudiced against "foreigners" of any color, when identified by their accent, clothing, etc. Littlefinger was of part Braavosi descent, and that made it difficult to establish House Baelish. The Velaryons have long been considered Westerosi, so I don't believe they'd be subjected to colorism in-universe.
Show started and literally everyone stopped caring about the colour of their skin. Because it's a good show with good actors.
OR maybe the majority and/or entirety of native Valyria was Black and the Targaryen clan became an outlier due to albinism combined with excessive inbreeding. That actually makes more sense given the location and ancient courtship practices
This makes a lot of sense actually.
As far as I know the majority of Valyrian reamnant population (lys,Volantis) are descriept like the Targarians (tall , blonde, pale, purpel eyes. And if we go by the sorounding population they would be mediterranian
Either way its G.R.R Martins decision what color valyrians where, and in the end it dosnt mater
That actually matches the lore. The targs were the only ones that had silver hair in valyria because of inbreeding and blood magic tied to dragons that the valyrians did on them. Valyrians in recent history within the world of asoiaf only have silver hair because they interbred with the remaining targs after the doom of valyria until silver hair and purple eyes became dominant in their genes.
@@bennetplath8781 you know people who suffer from albinism are pale and blonde right? 😬
But albinism doesnt change your features other than the lack of pigment, African albinos look african but lacks pigment, so no it makes no sense.
It would be easier just to say that a group of people came from the south (Or what ever the most sunny) and settled not so long ago, Kinda like how North Africa is today but in reverse.
One way this is a good choice: Not having almost the entire main cast look exactly alike. With the rivalry/connections of the 2 houses being such a big plot point, & them both being Valyrian houses with their signature white hair, it could have been unnecessarily difficult to tell characters apart in the early episodes, which make it hard to "lock in" on story beats, not to mention if they hadn't done this the ..."Keep it in the family" reputation of the franchise would have stood out A LOT more than it already does with it looking like a clone orgy to the maybe more casual watcher
On a slightly unrelated note: This is in a weird way similar to why I think there are names like house Yronwood in the books. As in when you have a house name that's also an in world item, you need a way to distinguish them, so "Yronwood" = House, "Ironwood", = lumber etc
Corlys looks more bad ass then I ever could’ve imagine. I love the casting
@@joshrivers5191 nope we’re gonna watch this show and LOVE Corlys in it. Sorry not sorry.🤷🏼♂️
Right like I’m glad they didn’t cast a white person and I’m saying this as a white person😂. They look BADASS no questions asked!
@@sobir745 his white dreads look like dried dogshit. didn't think they could outdo the Rhaegars wig in trashiness, but they did
@@sobir745 ...the fuck does that have to do with it?
He definitely looks good it's just black washing a white character is kinda racist dont you think...I mean make an original characters but yea. ...regal as hell.
I think it's ironic that even in fantasy we as black people still find ourselves in the same situations. All we want is to see a little representation but we don't go begging for it. Every black person that enjoyed game of thrones as much as every white person did not stop to ask why isn't anyone black in the main cast.
Edit: the fact that I just posted that comment and you, as a creator already read it and acknowledged it shows me that you're fan engagement game is on point! forgot to sub but that most definitely reminded me to
all I know is there are HELLA black GoT fans so the racists are just gonna have to go somewhere else to have their whites-only fantasy
@@DavidLightbringer thank you brother 🙏🏾 you don't know how much that means to hear you say that bro. Everytime I see an Ally to us good human beings it makes my day. To know white people do have our backs against racism is something you should never stop doing brother. Much love
I am a huge game of thrones fan and I am black it is my most favorite tv show ever and i never even thought about why is there anymore black people it never even crossed my mind because I like the story that much so for me to hear they playa hatin like this i'm disappointed because racism is just another form of playa hatin and when did it became cool to be a hater
I think it's mostly the media bro, They get people all worked up and at each other's throats over stuff they really don't even care about.
Bit I agree they casted the show great and I'm really liking it so far.
I think everyone would want to marry into the Velaryon family because that is just a good-looking family, and when that group makes an entrance, they look fantastic.
corlys velaryon was also one of the most insightful and forward thinking member of the small counsel with him trying to crush the triarchy before they get a foothold while simultaneously trying to get his blood on the throne
First off, they are an extremely good-looking group of men and I agree it adds a level of coolness to their family! I appreciate your explanation and can't even pretend to care about the outrage. Let them choke on their complaints. BTW, I love the sweatshirt you're wearing.
Thank you!
It’s not just that. It makes sense. The valaryons weren’t known for incest like the targaryens. They also sailed around the world and known for marrying with other families. So having a different ethnic house makes sense as they probably did marry to different places other than Westeros
I really hope they go for option 1 because that would, in the long run, give them more cool options to visit the summer isles and do other interesting things in a way that feels personal to an important character. Option 2 is cool enough too, but I see that naturally adding more depth to Valyria rather than the Summer Isles, and while Valyrian society is a very interesting topic, that empire has been gone for a long time, whereas the Summer Isles can be visited whenever. The few Summer Islander characters we've had in the books so far have also been very interesting people and I'd really like to hear more about them and their culture overall.
I think the 2nd option goes along with true history, even if this show is just fantasy anyway...Hint white nobles in ancient times, hell white slavery didn't end until 1916 with the Child Labor laws Act.
As actual history shows, there were several black African empires and kingdoms, not exclusively Egyptians and Kushites: all these empires had slaves of different ethnicities, some including whites. It would therefore have been very plausible that the Valeryans were a black people, at least originally.
THANK YOU. A lot of black americans arguing aginst the casting miss this point
@@triplemoyagames4195 why would black Americans complain about being included. The majority of the complaints are not coming from them.
The show is fake but makes sense to have other empires with different races of people. The GOT series was missing that.
@@annmariebusu9924 In GoT we didn't really see any empires though, Westeros is relatively homogenous island with not that much diversity, which makes total sense. Some Valyrians being black makes sense though, since it is heavily inspired by the Roman Empire, which had a lot of different races within its borders.
@@petrorlov2599 We did see other nations - Essos. Essos is where Daenerys is most of the story. It's where Arya and Sam go.
Get to the damn point and explain why he’s good for the part and not just saying why you think people are racist for not wanting it to be like the original.
hey Jolly if you have a problem with literally 60 seconds of calling out racists, I'm guessing you're a goddam racist. No one else minds, to be frank
because normal fucking people, see, we don't have an issue with calling out racism. it's important to do. You're telling on yourself
FIRST of all, your look is amazing. The whole Ozzy glasses thing and the neat Corinthian look makes you seem as though you jumped off the pages of a graphic novel 😃 SO COOL!
Secondly, my only gripe with Cor is that DAMN... they need to make his dreads look better. They look wispy and too wiggy. Rhaenyra's hair looks too wiggy too. To be fair, they had issues with that in GOT with the first episode as well but, maybe it's because I'm a girl who played dress up in costumes, it's very obvious to me but I hope they make his hair ticker and try to get the beard coloring right.
Thirdly 😄 I understand where some people are coming from. I personally didn't read the books... yet.... so it made no difference to me. In my country we don't see color (classism is unfortunately a big thing). But since these characters have never been portrayed onscreen, it is a good time to cast people of varying ethnicities. The issue is when you have a character like Superman or Storm and then swap them when they've always looked a certain way. But, for me, I see no issue with Cor. I LOVE him and Daemon and don't see them as villains bc I believe, at least right now, they really are trying to make a difference whereas Viserys (I like him too but he is weak) only cares about money and the earnings of the kingdom.
Thanks for the video :D
wow, that was one of the most awesome compliments I've received! Thank you!
@@DavidLightbringer You're welcome 🥰🥰
Even if the Velaryons were always black, Aegon and his sisters don’t have to change from the fan art.
You can have one white and black parent and still turn out pasty and ginger, or you could turn out as black as corlys.
Genetics arent as direct as some people believe.
Also... genetics could work differently in a world were magic and dragons are a thing.
Yeah my moms black and my dads white and I don’t look at all like the traditional idea of mixed race people. Just look like a well tanned white guy haha
It kind of depends of the pairing yea. A white german and a black nigerian would have a very dark skinned kid almost always.
But a random black american and a random white american will have much more varied results as there is a high change they have some mixed ancestry.
I originally wasn't sure but the actor works; he has a good presence, voice, and charisma. I think Paddy, Rhys and Steve (King, Hand, and Corlys) are probably the 3 strongest actors on the show.
I thought it felt surprisingly quiet on this topic, turns out it's just me not having social media.
yeah... yeah. I mean it's nowhere near as bad as in the Lord of the Rings fandom, but I am deleting several racist comments on this video every day, and at the beginning, there was a flood. Some of these types are racists that are in our various fandoms, and many of them are diehard culture warriors that flood a fandom when a "diversity casting" is announced. it's very much a turf war for them... which is why I delete all such comments on sight.
@@DavidLightbringer I wish I could subscribe twice, you are doing the Lord's work friend. It shouldn't be exhausting to exist in the skin I was born with...but it is, and the gaslighting that we're the ones focused on it. I'd give anything to just be "Johanne" and not "black Johanne".
Corlys Velaryon is a complicated character as he goes back and forth the two sides, I am interested in how they are going to portray Velaryon in a heroic disposition or as a villain or even maybe just another politician trying to get on top with the winning side.
I'm really interested to see how they handle Addam of Hull and the accepted heir story(during the dragonseed part of the story.)
I LOVE this idea of Corlys. Thank you for sharing! It's logical...doesn't break canon AND expands the lore even more. THIS is how to do it right. It also shows a "golden age" of the Targaryen Court, which was much more vibrant and highlight that the fall of Westros into this banal mediocrity kinda began with the Dance Of the Dragons, and was solidified with the Fire at Summerhall. Perhaps this is why none of black Velaryons exist by the main series...they died at Summerhall and a cadet branch carried on the name.
So much potential world building, and I LOVE IT!
The Summer Islands really does introduce an interesting aspect to the family. (Edit: Seriously, the Summer Isles, adds a really interesting aspect to the family. I hope the show really monopolizes on this.)
I didn’t think this needed an explanation until I watched your video. I’m just excited to watch. GOT was a series I didn’t know I needed and now I have been going through withdrawals and have watched GOT seasons 1-8 at least three times over. So I’m hella excited for HOTD….
I hope the people that have issue with this also keep the same energy when white actors are cast for Ancient Egyptians and Hebrews. Interesting video btw
No literally
You do know ancient egypt and hebrews were mixed with and ruled by southern european for more than 2000 years right. Israelis pass as europeans and vice versa any day.
Tbf Ancient Egypt had a large Greek population but you arent wrong.
I love your channel, David. Thank you so much for doing what you do. You are so intelligent, wise, friendly etc. It's been such a pleasure to watch this channel grow. 😀
It’s better to introduce new characters than change the race or sex of a character. There’s the entire summer isles why not introduce people from there? No one disliked Grey Worm or Missande most fans aren’t racist it just makes more sense to introduce summer islanders.
But "they" didn't change anything...
Shut up
Careful there bud! Right wing talking points are insidious.
I think it was a fabulous decision. First of all, it helps distinguish them from the Targaryen's and outright tells you they have a different family history but are still related to them by classical valyrian features such as the white hair an all. It also make sense since they are sailors therefore visited the world and most likely intertwined with locals from different cultures over the years. I could go on and on but I will stop here so newcommers understand the basics of it. Finally, I just wanted to add that Steve Toussaint who plays Corlys Velaryion, is an OUTSTANDING actor. He plays his role to perfection and he just fits in the whole ensemble. I get it that its new to see more diversity, especially when it comes to the main casting, since Game of Thrones did far from that....but you got to let those apprehensions and bs aside, since I think it better the shows more than anything:)
As a visual medium for story telling, This is an outstanding decision. Removing all the political correctness/diversity issue from the discussion, it facilitate audience with differentiating the factions AND there will be a major plot point that ties into this later on.
The actor who plays Corlys is hilarious and a great actor! I'm happy with the casting.
GOTTA LOVE THAT OPENER TUNE!
🎸🎶Play that funky Bass Harp, Rhaegar 🎶🎸
🎸🎶Play that funky Bass Harp right🎶🎸
Actor's quality acting appreciation post here. I wholeheartedly agree with your video, but I have another point to bring to light: no one should care about it because goddamnit, Steve Toussaint is so amazingly perfect in this role than the colour of his skin could have not even been thought of when judging his presence in the show. He's just killing it at a level I rarely appreciated that much.
My curiosity is about how the show is going to handle Rhynera's kids. The rumors of infidelity are fueled by their kids not looking Valyrian, but now we have a much broader idea of what that means. It's either going to be more obvious or less obvious that the kids aren't Laenor's. Not being negative about that, just curious how it gets handled.
Eyes are out, since the show has never had the Valyrians have the purple eyes from the novels. Hair color is still a possible factor, but now her kids will also be white, a much more mundane sort of infidelity indicator. I feel like that's less interesting. Valyrian traits have always been kind of mysterious in terms of heritability, which gave the parentage of her kids a certain mystery. Making it a skin color issue takes away from the fantasy.
Laenor looks more white than black so that shouldn't be an issue, irl Laenor's actor and Rhanyra's actor could easily have 100% white looking kids. The hair color is the issue.
I get what you’re saying , but being biracial doesn’t always equate to having brown skin. Children can be biracial but look like more of one race than the other. Example Halsey, Mariah Carey etc. On top of that Rhaenys Velaryon’s mother had baratheon black hair.
haters gonna hate the show is great, can't wait for episode 2
First time stop on this channel. Well damn done Sir! The over-all presentation and delivery are detailed, knowledge-based and reasonable. Thank you.
The velaryons couldn't have always been black if they were jaehaerys daughter wouldn't have been scared of the summer islander prince due to his skin color because her grandma alyssa who is a velaryon would have been black and her father would have been mixed
We don't do that here
@@rrmush7683 Do what? The comment is Canon specific and not being biased.
I mean, the idea that a particular set of genes responsible for eye color, hair color etc. passes on and on again in a perfect patrilineal line for thousands of years (this is how old Starks, Lannisters and Dondarrions/Baratheons are) so that every major house can be determined by a set of physical traits is by itself ridiculous.
@@terintiaflavius3349it's a joke, people call me racist when I point out things like that 🤣🤣🤣
Spoted the racist (jokes)
I love your videos. It’s great to remind me of things from the books and keep me entertained between episodes. ♥️
Damn, honestly thank you for making this video. I will admit, when I first saw the casting I did think “wait, does this make sense for the general canon?” But, the ideas you lay out here such as House Velaryon having familial connections with the Summer Isles makes complete sense. Honestly I hope it’s the case, since that would be a fantastic way to bring the Summer Isles more into the show
The Summer Islander mom angle is flawless, and fits perfectly into cannon if you think about it. It explains how the Velaryons came to dominate the sea by the time Corlys took power. They may have been skilled seafarers beforehand but marrying someone descended from the best sailors in the world definitely gave them a powerup. Plus, it explains why Corlys is so badass, since let's face it, Summer Islanders are badass. Personally I'm 100% sold and I can't wait.
If the books would have mentioned his mother being a Summer Islander, than yeah it would make perfect sense but it doesn't. The books do however mention a Summer Islander ambassador I believe and the people were in awe of their unique skin color and attire. It's not a deal breaker for me but I'm a bit of a stickler for movies being as close to the book as possible.
@@FD-nz7qv Does the book outright state that anyone HAS to be white as a central part of their identity? As long as the writers keep the characters intact, the entire cast could be black and it would still be a faithful adaptation. This is a fantasy series, not a chronicle of actual history. It really, really doesn't matter what color anyone is. None of these people actually existed.
@@choronos Well the Targaryens weren't actually white as their ethnicity doesn't exist since it's fantasy and all.
@@FD-nz7qv HIs mother is actuallly not mentioned in the books.
Great video, as per usual.
I think one of the main reasons they chose to make House Velaryon Black was for viewers to easily differentiate the Velaryons to the Targaryens. Which may explain why they gave Rhaenys silver hair instead of black. Just makes it easier for casual viewers to follow.
After seeing some ASOIAF fan art, I understand why some people may be confused had they all been white with silver hair. When you add the similar Valyrian names on top of that, I get it.
Both options you presented are very interesting and I’m eager to see which option the show will go with.
Really appreciated this, I’m not black but as a Latino I still appreciate diversity if it fits correctly, and this fits perfect with the Summer Isles
Arya might have found the Latinos haha
Then you should’ve wanted original characters. Not hand me downs
@@ifo7319 these are all original characters set at a different timeline, your not making any sense gonna have to elaborate further.
Latino isn't a race. It's a culture. There are black, white, mixture and indigenous Latinos.
@@patrickk___ The Valyrians and the Velaryons are canonically white. Pale skin, purple eyes, silver/blond hair.
I appreciate diversity too, and am a writer myself, and so when they change canon and characters instead of actually making originally non white characters it’s highly insulting and incredibly lazy.
No one should be happy when these corporations thinking the audience will take scraps from changing established characters instead of putting in the work to have actual real, foundational poc characters from the get go.
There’s also non white characters they could have focused on more in ASOIAF. Why didn’t they do that? I’d like to see that more, instead of tokenizing.
Personally, I also believe these producers giving only non white characters screen time after they have racebended or black washed them as them regarding originally white characters as the only way for audiences or they care or they don’t see original black or original Latino characters as deserving of storylines and growth, and that there is an ideological perspective that has ill intentions.
Around 9:35 you begin talking about people being confused about the actor’s skin color and I would just like to expand on that a bit. Having parents of two different races is of course a thing, but that doesn’t mean that the baby is going to come out with light skin or evidence that it’s parents are of different races. Mixed children can have a various range of skin tones just like Black people with two Black parents can.
thats abit of a half truth. most mixed people will look and take traits from both. especially in skintone. usually the skin will be a balance of both parents in tone. its rare that 2 fair skin whites produce a tanned white person and also 2 dark blackskinned blacks produce a lightskin black person
@@kijogatama5415 comparing your tiny family is irrelevant. i am correct because im not looking at a small pool. the africa arguement is dumb because their many different races and mixes over there. africa isnt just black, its mixed with asian/middle eastern, indian and some whites so yes its diverse but thats per region
so in countries ull see entire populations who are simply darker skin with little mixing. and ull have to move to and entire different country to see different skin tonnes. africa isnt mixed and diverse every single place like youre trying to assume, you gotta go 1000s of miles to see diversity sometimes
youre looking a small annomalies and exceptions but the vast majority is like i said in my original comment.
@@jaypey8253 my mom is dark brown, my dad is medium toned brown, I came out beige. It happens. genetics isn’t so, excuse the pun, black & white😂
@@CJ-du3wm it isnt but there are patterns that are noticable. so we dont go off exceptions
in africa 2 darkskin people can have a white skinned person, albinos they call them
so genetic mutations happen. but its not the norm. my friends parents are both short but hes 6 foot.
also get a dna test with you dad. he might not be ya dad lol
@@jaypey8253 lol oh nah, he is def my dad. same face, eye color & i even inherited his birthmark. i just have a pair of white great grandparents from him and the lack melanin came out in me. it is what it is
Not only that the Velaryon children do not look like Laenor, but they also do not look like Rhaenyra either, as they won't have the silver hair or purple eyes of the Valyrians.
This actually makes me wonder why there wasn't more people of summer island decent depicted on the show, since you'd assume they'd be quite a significant half summer islander/westerosi population living in around major areas of trade.
Wow I really enjoyed your video, from the perspective of a black woman I thought the video was well done, thought provoking, and respectful. Thank you ❤️
thank you very much!
Only four episodes in and Steve Toussaint has already shown us that he was and will always be Corlys Velaryon. The chemistry between him and Eve Best is pretty outstanding, especially since we haven’t really gotten into their story yet. The actors/writers really did an amazing job with the immersion and making us, the audience, feel that the story is contiguous without major plot holes and unsatisfying time leaps (ahem, not unlike their “predecessor”).
I really disliked how HBO and the directors/show runners dumbed their casting choices down to just being about “race.” I mean, Sapochnik literally said in an interview he didn’t want this to be another show where there’s “a bunch of white people on screen.” How is that not an insult to Steve Toussaint’s (and his costars) incredible range as an actor? He took this role and he brought it to life on TV. If I ever read the books, I will always picture him as Corlys. Period. Even when the lorebangers and shitposters were up in arms about black Velaryon’s ***GASP***. Yeah, I get that there’s always gonna be naysayers and closet racists that make themselves heard in situations such as this. I just wish the people backing the show actually stood up for their actors in stating that they were casted because they’re the best - not because of something so shallow as skin color.
I find it interesting how there’s a generally agreed upon default for characters that never had physical descriptions
How people just always assume "humans" = "White"
@@13579hee (SNAPS) My friend.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a "White man's World" & ppl like me just live in it.
@@13579hee exactly!
But they did have descriptions even if it isn't the sea snake himself his daughter and his son are very detailed in what they look like and so is his wife soooo and you know the whole fact that the valyrians are the only other Valerian family hence the name and you know the valerians have a rather unique depiction to them having platinum blonde hair and purple eyes
i hope this will also reflect in the common people being more mixed and varried in driftmark! it's just background but it would be so nice to see and also support that this is not just a one time case but the mixing and exchange among different peoples is a regular occurance here
So glad I found your channel. I just recently started reading the book series and am absolutely obsessed. Saw the prequel trailer when it dropped and I'm excited all over again, especially cause the previous show runners have nothing to do with it.
Corlys looks dope and I can't wait for the drama and dragons. 🤘🏾
Right on, well, there’s LOTS of back material to accompany your read! Just drop a comment on any video you have a question about and I’ll probably see it. Cheers
I have to admit, I was initially very skeptical about the black Velaryons for quite a few reasons, some of which you brought up in the video. But I have to say after watching the first few episodes, I have totally changed my mind. Especially since Steve Toussaint has been phenomenal in his role so far. You also brought up some really nice points here about how Velaryons potentially having Summer Islander heritage could make a lot of sense. Nice video :)
This is the best lore-based explanation I've heard thus far, I really like how you did this. I am opposed to this sort of swapping typically, because they don't take the time to work it out within the lore (or they completely disregard how a character is described physically in the source material). I do have questions about a trait as specific as purple eyes cropping back up by the time of the ASOIAF timeline, as the few Valaryon characters we see are depicted as phenotypically similar to Targeryens and traits like purple eyes would almost certainly be recessive. But this is good work, man. Kudos.
It’s a fantasy novel with dragons in it. They could make the character blue and it would still be able to make sense within the lore
Why do we need to explain it? People ho do not like it, won't listen to anything you say. It is nice of you to try to make it logical. I see it as a wonderful expansion of the show's mythos. But I love to hear you talk. I enjoy how immersed you are in all nuances.
I think the main reason is because there are people in the middle who aren’t sure what to think. Obviously the racists are what they are but there’s a lot of people trying to hide behind complaints about the canon, saying it just doesn’t fit the story. I wanted there to be a video that very clearly refuted that, so everyone was clear that the objections to this casting really are just rooted in racism. But actually even more than that, I really do love the world building and was interested to explore the possibilities.
I understand. your point. I just hate that people have to have being decent to everyone explained to them. .
Love this video. Going to go and check out a couple more of your videos.
Thank you. You know why i am thanking you. Honestly, listening to this, is bringing me to tears.
I love the casting, the Velaryons look amazing, very outstanding and also pretty cool. I think its good that they don’t look so alike to the Targeryans while still keeping the physical traits that link them together as Valirian blood.
Valyria was somewhat modeled after Ancient Rome according to Martin. And ancient Rome was an international trading hub with people from everywhere including Egyptians, Africans, even Asian traders. I don't see the big deal at all that there are difference races and intermarriage within Valyria. No need to even have a Summer Isle connection. There were already different races as well as slaves from all over in Valyria.
Egypt is africa lol
North africans* were part of romean trade and culture, sub saharans were separated with the biggest desert in history from us.
I think it was a brilliant move. Nice to see diversity that's NOT someone in the role of a slave 😒
Instead of changing the entire race of an established family why not create a new one? Robb's show wife was changed from his book wife.
But why though? This is more interesting. I don’t really want a bunch of made up characters.
@@DavidLightbringer Because taking a character who is originally white and changing his race is far more racist and offensive than not putting any black character in the series.
1. It's not changing the entire race of an established family. The Velaryons will in a few years be looking like Targ looking again. 2. It was only changing the ethnicity of a single character because the character has an interesting background which makes sense. 3. Unlike other Blackwashing, Corlys Velaryon as brown/black comes from the creator himself, George Martin. It is his world. If he said he's mixed race, he is mixed race.
Many people don't even know that a lot of Western Europe was controlled by African Moors for a couple centuries from 1300-1500, infact Sicily was ruled by Moor kings at one point, Spain was also. There were a lot of prominent African figures during the middle ages and pre-renaissance Europe.
They know 💯they just act like they don't know
African people had the first kingdom & built the first colleges....the Greeks came to Africa 🌍 to learn...Europe was in the dark ages...and Europe does not have plenty natural resources like Africa and all the islands......90 percent of French resources come from Africa 🌍 so without Africa French is a 3rd world country
Yeah, but for some reason americans think countries like Spain are not in Europe. It just shows how little they know about History.
Stop revising history, it was only Spain, Portugal and Sicily. GRRMs Asoiaf is strongly based on medieval western, central and Northern Europe. Dorne is definitely based on moorish spain I’ll give you that.
@@aramisone7198 The middle East WAS Africa 5000+ years ago. It didn't change until Europeans drew lines on a map and divided the continent.
The middle East is part of the African plate geographically.
This all makes a lot of sense. What I would like to see is how the Targaryans react to it. The canonical Targaryans are not exactly colorblind. Half the time, they prefer incest over marrying anyone who isn't Valyrian enough to preserve the 'blood of the dragon'. In practice that means they are looking for white hair (which Corlys has), purple eyes (generally missing from the tv version, probably because it doesn't look good) and pale skin (which this version of Corlys doesn't have). One reason for their close relationship with the Velaryons is that they are also Valyrians. Bealor Breakspear, who was by all accounts a decent guy, got flak for his Dornish features. One of the big things at stake in the Dance of the Dragons was the right for women to rule. The woman ruler being more tolerant to a black hand of the king vs her more bigoted opponents disliking her for that too would make a ton of sense
The Targaryans are not color conscious they are Valeria conscious. There is no reason to assume that the Valyrians saw race as white people see it today. White people in our real world didn't always see race the way we see it today. Our Idea of race was constructed in the 15th century. It didn't exist before then. They probably saw race they way all empires saw race Valarian (superior) everybody else (inferior) Corlys is Valyrian and part Targaryan so preferable to any westorosi
Targaryen bigotry might not function the exact same way as ours. All the same they care a lot about heredity, correct blood and appearance. Once you care about that you aren't actually that far away from garden variety racism. Corlys will visibly have some pretty non-valyrian blood. That's gotta get some response and not just based on some concept of race. Bigotry might be rationalized conceptually but I don't think it's usually based on concepts.
@@Evilanious Think in terms of the Egyptians, Ancient Egyptians were a black Africans people just like all their neighbors, However by the time of Alexander the Great The noble houses of Egypt were interbred with various Semitic peoples who had moved into the area and many Greek traders lived in Egypt and intermarried with Egyptian trader families. Egyptians however made no distinction between brown Egyptians and black Egyptians by the time of Alexander the Great invaded. It was just too common a phenomenon for them to care about. They did however care if you were Egyptian of not. Any Egyptian no matter what he looked like was considered better than any none Egyptian no matter what shade he was. I that frankly was true of most empires of the ancient world. That is how they saw race. Skin color racism had to be invented and it came into our world very late in human history. Not really until after 1492. I think Valerians would probably most likely have seen race the same way the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Nubians, Ethiopians and Romans saw it. A Roman Emperor would have seen an Ethiopian princess as a better choice than Daughter of a German High king.
@@clementmckenzie7041 "trust me bro"
@@clementmckenzie7041 no its well documented that targaryens are race conscious, towards pale features. Don't let your political correctness blind you now. This adaptation can still be done right. It needs to address this correctly, though.
Well said! Thank you for making this video! It was very much needed!
I doubted the casting myself, though I'm black. I just couldn't picture it, even from preview pictures. He proved me dead wrong with his performance. He's Corlys Velaryon. And now I won't have to listen to casuals get the Velaryons and Targaryens mixed up, you can tell them apart much better. I also really like what it does for the Strong boys dilemma. It takes the "maybe they are, maybe they aren't" to "Lol they're obviously not" and I think that works for this so much better.
Its not racism to criticise a casting team for changing a house's race. For a world being so built and people being such fans of the world building, it is odd for fans not to be confused. But you shouldn't just make characters black becuase you want to. If you want black characters, write them yourself, not shitting on someone elses work, its like star wars and the new LOTR, please stop. not sticking to the source materials ends in distaster. i dont think coryls being black matters, but imagine if a member of House Dayne was black, because both are described as fair skinned, purple eyes and white hair. It doesnt matter with Coryls because we don't know who his parents were, they can make him black that doesnt both me. Its if a character Like Areo, WHO IS A BEARDED PREIST, and made black, thats where the problem comes from.
Thanks for ignoring the arguments I made in the video! That's always fun. So, the person "shitting on George's work" (gross choice of words to describe a black casting) is none other than George, who is working closely on the show. So your ENTIRE NARRATIVE here is bullshit. And yes, increasing the diversity in Hollywood is unquestionably a good thing to anyone who isn't a racist, because Hollywood has been very, very racist and very, very white-cetnric for its entire existence. And in this case, nobody's race was actually changed - and where do you get off decreeing that no one should do this? - because Corlys's race and physical description is never named in the books. The show is **filling out** his backstory in an interesting way as they flesh out the character for TV. Your entire framing of the issue reeks.
and yes, rushing to criticize this casting choice without considering that a.) it fits the canon well, that b.) GRRM is working on the show, and c.) that YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE SHOW YET, is very hard to explain without racism.
have you ever stopped to consider how this sort of talk affects people of color when they hear it? This constant barrage of hatred towards any black people that cast in stories perceived as white? It's nothing more than a big "WHITES ONLY" sign my man, and that's how the authors of this worldview intended it
@@DavidLightbringer I wasnt attacking Coryls and his casting, i was saying as a whole casting actors different to their role is fine when it can work. i dont belive in blind casting, you have a white character cast a white character, you have a black character cast a black character. I AM OKAY WITH CORYLS BEING BLACK. i just dont agree with areo being black and clean shave all the sudden when his history is a bearded priests. I AM OKAY WITH CORYLS BEING BLACK. i just think in a lot of other stuff they dont have any effort in forcing equaility down peoples throats. But come on. what would you of done if Daenarys was played by a black actor, you defending. Doesnt that kind of mess with the lore. how did you feel when sansa married ramsay bolton, didnt it rub you the wrong way. george worked with AGOT, you gonna defend season 8. changing stuff is fine, when it makes thematic and narrative sense. What does it mean for Velaryon to be black, his parents are summer isles, great, is it gonna change or influcen story, probably not, is it good for character, probably, does it really matter. like i said, coryls being black doesnt matter, i dont care it doesnt bother, its just the principal it sets. we have it your woke as way rhaenyra is secrelty gonna be a faceless man, shes actually a black female transwomen with green hair. may the fans rejoice, and vomit.
You were raised right. Thank you for giving zero 🤬 about skin color. People waste the little time we have on earth hating people for reasons they don't know 🙄
Excellent explanation. I would just add that all bi-racial people don't come out with lighter skin...some have darker skin
Having read the books and loving the show so far, the choice to make the Velaryons dark skinned genuinely makes no in-setting difference (ergo why are people so butthurt about it :/ )and honestly I think the idea that Valyria was not wholly homogeneous complexion wise makes a whole lot of since. Essos, especially east of Volantis and Valyria itself, seems to depict peoples whose complexion do not correlate with Earth’s pale Caucasians. Valyria wasn’t only present where the Free Cities are but also east past Slaver’s Bay. I mean, shoot, the absorbing of Ghis alone would increase compositional diversity of the Freehold by magnitudes based solely on the fact that the Ghiscari Empire has been slaving as far as Leng, Sothoryos, and the Summer Islands, something I can’t imagine a culture as “flesh hungry” as Valyria to let fall out of fashion.
In regards to why the Velaryons wouldn’t be white when Valyrians in the show have been depicted as so, it’s made clear in both the books and the shows that the Velaryons and Targaryans belonged to distinctly separate castes before The Doom. If they were sea-lords for as long as Valyria was still an active, conquering nation it would only makes sense that they would have greater contact with the world around The Freehold than dragon lords who are described as more sedentary and tending to only travel for war/conquest.
Lastly, and I think this is the most important point: it’s fantasy. Not only is it fantasy, but the creator of the entire setting not only approved but agreed with the decision to portray the Velaryons as dark skinned. Martin has time and time again shown a great willingness to expand what he’s already written, so people who are getting up in arms about the perceived “change” should realise ASoIaF is not theirs. The great thing about fantasy, and fiction in general, is how one person’s fever dream of dragons and magical swords can be shared and loved by so many people.
This video was a great analogy! i never really gave it much thought when i first saw the velaryons but now i cant imagine them any other way they are just perfect thanks for the video
Just because some disagree with the choice to make them Summer Islander doesn’t inherently mean the stand against the show completely
As someone who didn't read the book I thought nothing was changed, but if you think about where valyria was it makes total sense for the families outside of the 40 to be mixed
Yeah, I’m sure the Valyrian empire conquered a large area of Essos which seems to be largely based on either Eastern Europe, Africa or Asia depending how Far East you go. Makes sense for some of them to be black, maybe Velaryons originally came from the summer isle even?
I think the best thing this casting does for the story is make the parentage of Rhaenyra and Laenors children more glaringly obvious.
As a person of color this casing choice made me feel weird. Hollywood always switches race when the people spend more time in the sun. I love the show so far that being said.