The Anti-Dragon Maester Conspiracy P1 (House of the Dragon)
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2022
- Did the maesters really help provoke the Dance of the Dragons Targaryen Civil War as way of killing off the dragons, and will this potential conspiracy plot-line be included in House of the Dragon? Apostate Archmaester Marwin the Mage directly accused the Maesters of this dastardly conspiracy in A Feast for Crows, so let's investigate in the first of 2 videos.
PART 2 IS RIGHT HERE: • Anti-Dragon Maester Co...
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Throughout the entirety of Fire & Blood, the Hightowers are never presented in a bad light. The words used to describe their actions, even the most deplorable, are chosen very carefully. Almost as if the maester writing it doesn't want to potentially upset the Citadel's biggest patron cash source.
Is fire and blood really narrated or “written” by a maester? And if so are there any other books in the series that are?
@@justinjohnson3645 yes the other important books: "Pink goo saga" and the "Salted fisherman's wife". very skewed towards the hightowers
nice
@@justinjohnson3645 None of the other books published in real life are, if that's what you are asking. Just Fire & Blood and World of Ice and Fire
Something just occurred to me. Did George choose the word Dance just as an alliteration, or is he implying that they are dancing to someone's tune?
oh hey now that's good
Oh! Now THAT has me thinking!
@spider egg @@DavidLightbringer saw this comment before going on a walk late last night and starting my listening on ‘The Dying of the Dragons’ chapter in F & B.
Very first paragraph of the chapter includes: “To characterize the dark, turbulent, bloody doings of this period as a ‘dance’ strikes us as grotesquely inappropriate. No doubt the phrase originated with some singer. ‘The Dying of the Dragons’ would be altogether more fitting, but tradition, time, and *Grand Maester Munken have burned the more poetic usage into the pages of history, so we must dance along with the rest.*”
They’re rubbing it in our goddamn faces, man.
:O 🤯
Epic theory 😎
They could have fixed the vote for the election at Harenhall. Stalin was reported to have said - " Those who count the votes decide everything." And who counted the votes at Harenhall? The maesters did.
I mean, be honest though, there weren't that many people who disagreed with Baelon being chosen over Rhaenys so, is it hard to believe that the votes were genuinely the actual account.
One thing I always noticed when going through the Targaryen Kings in World of Ice and Fire…the Maesters seemed to be responsible for keeping Aegon III afraid of his own shadow, reminding him what happened to his mother at every chance. They also weren’t happy when his brother Viserys came back to Westeros and he alone gave his big brother confidence to be a King.
I do think they poisoned the eggs after the dance. They used Aegons hatred to remove them.
If Marwyn says it happened, it happened. I don't make the rules. Side note, I consider Marwyn along with Old Nan as ASOIAF equivalents to Septon Barth, in that everything they say is actually right, even though we might not always understand what they're really saying.
100%. There’s at least some truth to whatever they say
I think septon barth is pretty much always right. Old nan is pretty much right in her own way and marwyn . . . is defficult, he has good points but he purposefly talks a lot of bs inbetween, so he does not get targeted as dangerous. He is not o the same level, but he difinitly knowes some stuff.
Again and again I freeze in awe of George's genius. The way he creates room for speculation just by letting a few supporting characters say things that only seem significant at second glance is simply masterful and second to none. I'm curious to see what is gonna be confirmed in the series and what is not 👌
it's truly master level, no doubt. and fruitful grounds for theorizing!
I have severe insomnia. Its 605 am and i havent slept at all but seeing this video gave me a huge mental boost. One of my fav topics in asoiaf.
haha yeah I'm just going to be now lol. best of luck with that my friend
Ugh insomnia is the WORST!!! Im sorry you’re dealing with it, I know your pain and I hope your situation improves!!!
I've got pretty hard insomnia episode few years ago and I loved to binge listen to LML during these slepless nights. Even though I didnt fall asleep I was able to relax with LML videos in some weird ASOIF meditation mode hahaha
Good luck with the insomnia! Love
dude, Dinesh D'Souza is a total fraud and con artist. There was no election fraud. This is Trump's big lie, and it's been refuted in courts, by reporting, you name it. They tried to prove fraud in so many states, with total control of the sec state office, and found nothing they could ever prove. Seriously D'Souza is one of the most obvious con artists on the right. You gotta do better than falling for his crap
"This time Rhaenyra did not laugh "
that line sent chills down my spine.
Unrelated but Joffery's line of "They're going to kill Tyraxes" is so sad. If my bonded beast was in the pit there's no way in hell i would just sit by in Maegor's holdfast and let that happen
Rhaenyra was really stupid for letting the dragons die; I mean her damn dragon was in the Red Keep. Pisses me off everytime i think about it. She wanted her throne so badly she didn't defend it herself🤦🏽♂️. If it was Aemond or Aegon, hell or any other Targeryan, they wouldn't hesitate to defend their family heritage.
That could have been a real mess too - angry dragon lord defends the dragonpit against thousands of insane people. Yeah. Another field of fire, but in Flea Bottom
@@DavidLightbringer they all deserved to burn
especially that cursed Shepherd
@@UA-camChannel-dk5xv No, there's no problem with monarchy in and of itself, it's who the monarch is that's trouble
@@UA-camChannel-dk5xv Sorry, but we must agree to disagree on this. Even in GOT/ASOIF, there have been many good kings, let alone real history. Power doesn’t actually corrupt a person, it reveals who they truly are.
@@UA-camChannel-dk5xv Democracy, pure democracy at least, is utterly horrible. A republic is better, but the best form of government would be a parliamentary monarchy.
"YES, the damned Maester!... Take your filthy hands off of me!... It was the damnedable MAESTERS!!!"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🔥
The thing is, the Hightowers use the Maester for their benefit, its historical. When Aegon the First arrived at Oldtown, the Hightowers decided to bend to knee, but they worked in silence to get their revenge. Dragon is against the logic of power of knowledge, which the Hightowers have always had in Westeros. After the Dragons were dead, knowledge and contacts became the true power once more.
I love the live streams and longer videos, but this is a lot more digestible. Thanks for the content.
Love DL theory videos 🐉
One of the reasons I'm so excited for fire and blood part 2 is hoping to find out what happened to Morning and the remaining Targ dragons. The post- dance dragon deaths are the most SUS and world of ice and fire's Targ section didn't cover it really. I love your point about the world book and fire and blood being Master propaganda though. It's important to read them as such.
Indeed. I want to know what happened to the last two dragonriders, Rhaena and Nettles. Rhaena went on to have six daughters with a Hightower but we do not know if she died before or after her dragon. Also want to know the full history of the reigns of the dragon kings. Aegon III, Daeron I, Aegon IV's in particular. And more detail into the Blackfyres and other great bastards.
They were poison, also the eggs they lay were poison also.
@@sophiawilson8696 how does one poison dragons and dragon eggs?
@@ursaber I'm very pumped to read about Aegon the Unworthy
that's what I want to know, what could possibly poison a dragon?
Years ago those rats that Dany sees in one of the visions in the House of the Undying, biting a beautiful woman , were considered representations of the kings destroying Westeros, but could they be metaphors of powerful meisters? Sorry if that's already been discussed somewhere, it just occurred to me and I thought it interesting to share here. Great video as always, love your channel! Cheers from Brazil!
that's a good call - the maesters are fighting for power and control and may not be any better than the kings.
I think you’re thinking of the dwarves in that vision. Cool idea tho
Very good!
they are rat-faced dwarves, hence the confusion. lol
Ooh. I LOVE that! You see, I first started reading ASOIAF almost 20 years ago (yes, I'm old, heheh), and thanks to awesome folks like yourself I am still seeing George's work in new and fresh ways!
"Ice spiders as big as hounds!!"
Keep up the great work Nan. lololol
I def believe this theory! Hoping that HoTD will give us a more objective history of the Dance than Fire & Blood, and show us what those grey rats were really up to. 👀
I agree with you that the maesters are conspiring against the Targaryens but I think it started on the day Aegon landed. It was them along with the Hightower’s who convinced the high gardens to go fight knowing they would lose. That’s why no Hightower’s fought. They then gave Maegor a sterile broad to limit the number of kids that had Targaryen blood. Then after Jaehaerys took away the faith militants, they plotted with his own kids , ( two in the faith and Saera who is Alyssa Hightower’s mother) to take over the Targaryens. Imagine if Maegor would of married a Velaryon daughter, ( Freind & cuz to the queen in the west) how many more dragons would exist. I think they have been the ones who tried to stir the ruler ship away from good rulers like Aemon who they killed on Tarth, and his line who were all trained to rule, to Killing Baelon sister wife after her second son because if she had more kids then it would have been a Targaryen filled age. To making sure Daemon didn’t get the throne, which is why I think they killed his father cause he knew that to rule you had to ride and Daemon rode a dragon so why not skip over Visaerys. Even the fights between Visaerys and Daemon was them. The citadel and the Hightower’s are one and the same that’s the Hightower’s bastard kingdom filled with their assassins
Why kill Baelon if they favored him?
ohhhh, Maegor wasn't infertile, his women's pregnancies were messed with.
@@jacksparrow9227 the Targaryen rule under him was prosperous. He basically ruled the realm during Jaehaerys' ending reign. He was a wild child so they thought he'd be like Daemon or Aegon IV but turns out he was just like Aemon thus making the reign better rather than worse
@@jacksparrow9227 the Maesters killed him because he may have wanted to put Daemon on the throne since he was a dragon rider
@@espalier exactly they wanted to make sure they limited the number of dragons and riders. But his first wife was barren.
Nan’s cameo at the start is brilliant 😂
love her so much ^^
she's handy to have around, and her voice work rates are surprisingly affordable
It was almost like a Monty Python sketch starring Old Nan and Archmaester Keyser Söze. 🐀
I wonder if the Ancient Valyrian Dragonlord families were masters of blood magic probably passed down from Asshai and Empire of the Dawn. It would be cool if they transform into a half-human | dragon creature of war or even warg into their dragons. Given that Targaryen sometimes is born looking like a baby wingless dragon.
the video you want to watch is "Dracomorph!" Come back and thank me later after you're thoroughly grossed out!
ua-cam.com/video/QAXfTRi-Pfk/v-deo.html
The Maesters should praise Garth and chill out with all that conspiracy
100%
This 🤘🤘🔥🔥🖤🖤🤣🤣
"History is a set of lies agreed upon."
"We will write that history." -The Maesters (probably)
That intro was delightful. I half expected Graham Chapman to come in, dressed in a Royal Army uniform, and declare the whole thing “too silly”.
Haha that’s right where all my humor comes from all right
I love that preston jacobs years said that it’s entirely possible that Boros’s maester could have purposefully misread rhaenryas letter to invoke his fury and cause him to further side with the greens. Then the show comes out and they make a point see that the letter was freshly unopened say luke hadnt read it and the maester only whispers its contents to boros’s ear whilst he himself doesn’t even peek at it. Meaning we the audience, luke and boros have no idea what the letter actually said and only the maester knew…
When i saw the scene happen i instantly thought “preston… you SOB”
Hahaha! That intro skit was very well done.
As much as I hate the maesters for getting rid of magic, on the other hand the systems of magical power being passed down through blood lines has kept the world locked in feudalism for like ten thousand years.
This theory links with the Targaryen genetics theory pretty well
I like how you mention Otto and the Grand Maester as being strong influences on Viserys I small council. It goes beyond that too. Beesbury is also on the small council and they are Hightower vassals. I’m sure there are other green aligned small council members before they decide to crown Aegon. Another thing is the prophecy during the conquest where the Hightower’s can’t “directly” oppose the Targaryens or old town will burn. What better way to get around this than by organize a civil war. They were also not all that involved in Robert’s Rebellion if memory serves me right.
Oh that prophecy. Thanks for reminding me about that
@@DavidLightbringer euron will fulfill it indirectly with all the dragon and magic symbolism
YEEESSS. Oldtown Conspiracies! Down with the Dragonspawn!
Excellent video LML
I still have a "little bit" of a grudge against those filthy grey rats because of the Brandon Stark thing, you know...
we know, you aint subtil ^^
First!
Just dropped the kidlets off at school and lookin like a weirdo cackling in the car 😂
you can't be first.. I declare this 1st made by creator under protest. After review, it is legal just not cool...😅 You're great bruddah
🤣
I love your content! Thank you!
Happy for the return of shorter videos lately. Great video, Dave... as usual 👏
So stoked for this show and for the LML analysis to come.
Excellent 😊 can't wait for part 2
Maesters: Knowledge is power.
Targaryens: Power is power.
Maesters: Adjust strategy.
Awesome!! I needed something to listen to while I work today.
Great video! you’re quickly becoming one of my favorite ASOIAF creators on youtube. Definitely the most knowledgeable creator i’ve seen and I’ve been inspired to read fire and blood a second time. thank you!
Omg, i will never get tired of your Old Nan voice (also, great intro and great video as usual!)
these new a.m. streams are greatly enhancing my pre-work garth worship
Finally a video drops when I don't have to sleep. Thank you, David.
Let’s goooooo!!!!
Compact and fun! I love both short and long vids
Omgggg thank u LML!! a perfect way to start my happy hump day. 🤘🖤🔥
If I’m not mistaken, in one of the recent episodes of HOTD, Rhaenyra expresses dislike for the Maesters when Alicent says that the Maesters were taking care of her Dad or something like that. I think she has a gut feeling that they have not helped her Dad but instead sped up his demise. Because the sooner King Viserys was out the picture the sooner the Dance would begin
Loooooved the intro and the new editing work. Crushing it, duderz! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks so much!!
Nice one brotha!!!
Great piece!
Great content!
The intro is gold! Awesome! Back to watching lol
This is my #2 favourite ASOIAF theory! THANK YOU LML this was exquisite! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
My #1 favourite theory is also connected to the Maester conspiracy, and it’s also one I think I heard from you, it’s “The Mad King was not mad”.
Already gave a like before watching the video, leaving a comment for the algorithm 😉😉
Really loving the fun and joking tone in this video.
More old nan!! Great video man
I'm a fairly new subscriber and can I just say I truly love the content you put out there. It's so refreshing to see ASOIAF fans still engage with the content positively and create new content for others. Kudos to you for all the hard work!! As a fan of myths and archetypes/tropes since I was but a wee child, I love how you translate those ideas onto GRRM's world. It must be such long time of research and work and I truly appreciate it. I'm sad I seem to almost always miss your live streams (European here) but I make a point of waching the replays as soon as I can. Keep doing the work, we are all waiting together for HoD and TWOW!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate your comments. And yes I wouldn't even say I've done a ton of research as I've let George guide me through an education in myth and storywriting... I've learned so darn much and I'm happy to pass on some of it anyone else.
I knew it! I had a feeling your channel would blow up this year and I was right. Everything I look you seem to have at least 500-1000 new subs. The content speaks for its self. Very happy for you David
It sure is Joe thanks for believing in me buddy
Hello brother 👋🏾 Love your show✨✨✨
Well, who's the rat natural enemy? Of course, a cat! And who's the most prominent cat in asoiaf ( besides Cat)? Balerion, the black cat, who's named after the most badass dragon ever
The real sign of the illuminati is that i got an ad LITERALLY the second you said illuminati😳
haha i thought it would be funny to put an add there :)
The beginning was so silly, loved it!
Great video! Looking forward to the next one. Your Empire of the Dawn and the Targaryens caused the Doom videos are some of my favorite. Maybe you can do some Blackfyre Rebellions videos down the road. Those conflicts also helped bring down the Targaryen population.
You’re the man, Mr. Lightbringer.
Loving the new HOTD vids
Those damned Maesters and their Critical Dragon Theory are responsible for the extinction of dragons!
Needed this
Damn dude I get up for work here in the Bay Area and BOOM a new LML video freshly uploaded?! Thanks for the great content man!
WARRRR-IORSSSS
Fantastic cold open. Always appreciate it when Old Nan lends her wisdom to a video, heh heh
Nice topic
Zechaerys The Thunderer (Bane of the White Wolf and the last dragon hero) approves this message.
Oh yes sir let's go!!! After work and gym viewing on deck!!!
Dude there is so much rat imagery in house of the dragon. They say at one point “like rats coming to feast on my corpse” or something, so they imply it could just relate to people power grabbing as the king dies, but now that I think about it maybe they were always grey rats and there could be a double meaning.
Seriously it’s like the departed up in the dragon house, like half the scenes end on a grey rat 🐀
I hope the channel grows even more now with the new hbo show. You deserve it! Great content!
Nothing is true everything is permitted you should play the assassin's creed games
Shrykos was killed in the storming of the Dragonpit, Dave. Four remaining after the war is correct though, as there was Morning.
that's what i get for copying the wiki without checking lol
That intro was hilarious as hell 🤣
I forget all the ones supposedly mad; but I don’t think Maegor was mad at all. I watched another UA-cam video, I believe it was order of the green hand but could be wrong, and they ended up making me agree with Maegor and what he did. And a lot of it had to do with a conspiracy of the septons and maesters to end the Targs, so Maegor did what he had to do to save his family from extinction and make sure none would dare oppose them during his rain or they would know they would be dust in the wind when he was done with them
.
I’m sorry but there’s no way to get around him burning everyone alive inside to sept of remembrance, or all the horrific things he did to his many wives. Order of the green hand theories... well this is usually how they are. Completely wrong
Thanks!
I love the intro!!! Old Nan speaks the truth!
I’m wondering what were the Maesters up to after the dance?
Barbrey Dustin, from whom we receive so much of anti Master conspiratory whispers, has the grievance of the lost of her lover to motivate her distrust. She does not appear to express concern over the loss of dragons.
Even if there was a dragon culling conspiracy fomented by Maesters, what is their game afterward? Why were they pushing the old Lord Rickon to form Southron alliances? It does not seem that anti dragon sentiment would persist after the dragons are gone.
Something I really enjoyed about the books is the fact that we never get "proper" flashbacks or see objectively how something happened; we get memories that are often self-serving, hazy or else hyper-focused on certain details. We hear "common knowledge" that's just as likely urban legend or slander as truth and the POV character doesn't always pick that up.
I haven't finished reading the books, nor have I read any of the short stories/novellas, so I might off base here, but it's occurred to me recently that almost everyone I've heard utter the line about the gods flipping a coin RE the Targs, it's usually coming from someone who had a part in over-throwing them. Looking back over the dynasty there isn't anything particularly unique or noteworthy about their megalomania, except that they practiced incest and had access to dragons.
Really the whole "they flip a coin over whether they'll be great or mad" sounds like a brilliant piece of propaganda; yes, there were some brilliant Targ kings, but do you really want to risk it? Likewise, placing the blame for madness on the bloodline, making it seem inevitable, as opposed to their practice of incest making it something that could be avoided.
maester conspiracy was also talked about in GoT in a deleted scene
i hope it is expanded on in House of the Dragon
Dang to become a maester sounds really sus and scary if your trying to be a good one. Kind of scared for sam now😳
That start was so funny!! Was totally cracking up!! Lmfao 😅🤣😂😅🤣😂 thankyou, I needed a good laugh!
17:05 "such as... everyone involved. -Alright." 😂. How many other "plots" may exist in ASOIAF that we still don't know? Amazing work as always.
🎶 Mah name is Faegon 🎶
😆 gets me every time 😜
..I’M CARRYIN BLACK STEEL!
Okay, that was the best intro that ever introed.
My pleasure and thank you
Llloooolllll the lineup 😭
I wonder if the valyrian steel link of the maesters chain, which only one maester in a hundred forges, helps the maesters gauge who is privy to their conspiracy? i.e maesters such as marwyn and luwin, who were clearly interested in magic when studying at the citadel might not be as trustworthy so carry out any grand maester conspriacy plans. where as those who never bother, and clearly dont think it worth it could be more dependable in that aspect
Dude i love your content ive listened to the books 4 or 5 times watched the shows but you opened my eyes i may not agree with everything but either way
Great vid, your nun impression is my absolute favourite, please do a reading Nun stream!
To the topic of the video id say the Maesters undoubtedly aren't just normal healing folks with zero secret motives, it makes total sense.
And now to my own small theory more for ASOIAF, how about, a Faceless Men & Maesters conspiracy to kill Dany's Dragons? Jaqen in the Citadel? Potentially Looking for books about the Death of Dragons? How did he know Pete had the necessary Key? Maybe a certain Maester saw only a futile future for poor Pete, small sacrifice for a larger cause. Wouldn't it be ironic that a much anti dragon conspiracy acknowledged Marwyn, is fooled by the same ongoing plot?
you might be interested in the Winds preview stream I did about The Murder Bank, and the one we did about Arya; I actually think the Faceless Men will be pro-Dany, because she is anti-slavery. Plus the wights would be the worst abomination to the FM if you think about it.
I love your pet names for things/groups:
"Westeros Wet-blanet Squad" 🤣
NERD RAGE - but in laughing manner.
Thank for the love for my nicknames. It means so much
Nice 👌
It's not like we should have them burninating the countryside, or burninating the peasants! Too long they have burninated all the people in their thatch-roofed cottages!
i think your defo right george loves dune its kinda like his version of the bene gesserit only he actually kept the conspiracy secret hes the best
I'm just gonna say the Maesters glow
This makes me think of how Pycelle was the one that convinced the king to open the gates for Tywin who then sacked the city. Ultimately leading to the kings demise.
Yes. Praise Garth!
I don't think there's any evidence for it in the books, but it could be a cool extra layer to add if Rhaenyra and Daemon suspected the conspiracy and got married, among other reasons, to consolidate their power against the maesters/Hightowers.
Alternate theory, someone makes the accusation against the Hightowers/maesters during the dance, which sparks the rumor that Marwin either legitimately believes or is playing up for some as-yet-unknown reason. They could even ultimately leave it ambiguous.
Either way, I am hyped!!
interesting notion - Martin loves to work rumors doesn't he? In part 2 I will show you that there is more evidence than you'd think though!
@@DavidLightbringer ^not much evidence in the books that the Maester conspiracy, if it exists or is believed to exist in world, significantly or even partially contributed to their decision to marry^
Stupid interpritable written language 😂 although if I'm wrong about that too, that's awesome!
nice jacket!!!
Would aemon have known about the conspiracy? If so why would he have wanted the citadel to send Dany a maester to teach her?
When you lay it all out like this, the Maesters remind me of the Bene Gesserit in Dune.
yes, but sort of the opposite in purpose - they want to unmake a bloodline instead of making one.
@@DavidLightbringer true, also the Bene Gesserit aren't shy about magic and sorcery lmao
Yeah its the Maeters. They started more $#@% than anyone knows.