Anonymity vs. Cancel Culture
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- should everyone be forced to reveal their true identity?
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• Anonymity vs. Cancel C...
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❋ summary ❋
Anonymity is blamed for some of the worst behavior online. Should everyone be forced to reveal their true identity instead? In this episode, Laci contends that anonymity isn't the boogeyman it's made out to be. She is joined by Scott Alexander from Slate Star Codex to discuss his crisis over a forced doxxing at the New York Times, the double edged sword of cancel culture, China's censorship problem, internet trolls, group think, and why we struggle with self control online.
❋ chapters ❋
00:00 Episode Opening
01:01 Slate Star Crisis
05:30 Cracks in the Firewall
07:48 Getting A Grip
❋ guest ❋
Scott Alexander of Slate Star Codex
slatestarcodex.com
❋ citations & further reading ❋
1 - www.theguardian.com/news/2018...
2 - psycnet.apa.org/record/2012-0...
3 - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
4 - www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
5 - ijoc.org/index.php/ijoc/artic...
6 - coralproject.net/blog/the-rea...
7 - www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~schnorr...
8 - groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/class...
I've learned from Facebook and twitter that having your name attached to a post isn't going to stop you from saying something mean, insulting, etc.
True but Facebook is insulting the user by a useless android/tab interface and hiding information or making it very hard and at the same time shareing everyting they can gather just because people dont understand or find how not to share since its hidden somewhere like a white button on a white page.
Ive learned that having your name attached to a post can have you fired from your job if you express opinions protesting the globalist agenda of replacing your people - but only if you are white.
Because society in general wants to target individuals and steamroll them if they speak the truth and expose liars. It's easy to blame and shame one person. When you are a part of a group it's piece of cake to not take any reaponsibility for what you are doing or saying.
@@AlbertoGarcia-yb4ih why I don't do social media.
@Fluffynator that's two
Anonymity, whatever it means today anyway, it's one of the cornerstones of the Internet.
@@Jtzkb You don't really need a real name on Facebook
You can have account just get a name that sounds real.
Joe Mada.
Just don't put your real personal information anywhere on the Internet, and protect yourself from data collection
this was a huge waste of my time like most thing's i learn on cnn and in school don't forget fox new's there not in the clear
Opinions should not be doxxed, actions should.
I assume you mean morally questionable/abhorrent or illegal actions.
@@JimothyTheGreen you mean Trump. You're referring to Trump.
Advocating violence could be viewed as an action and an opinion, I think this sometimes is entirely worth doxxing or other retaliation. I see white supremacy and other forms of openly violent political stances as such.
I feel like I can’t say anything on the internet anymore without going anonymous, even if it’s only giving some ingame friends some advice
you have a problem with separating social and internet life? are your ideas so dangerous that you cant let them be challenged? what made you think that you cant say things that are controversial, many public influencers are included in terrorist manifestos but my speech isn't able to draw the crazy crowd, its not what you say, but how you say it that people understand. my opinion creates debate because i want it to stick with people. being anonymous is insurance but im not advocating violence however, the world isnt that pc as some others want you to believe it to be. debating creates a method to propose an argument without sounding rude but people dont get taught this in schools.
I believe anonymity should be an option on the internet if one wants it, for many of the reasons you outline.
Also, based on how I see people behave on Facebook sometimes, I have zero expectations that forcing everybody to be public will make everyone behave more.
Very true
Your beliefs on anonymity should be a choice is how the internet already is, unless your name is really ariwl1
Anonymity online is a Human Right: Change your Mind
Even without anonymity, there is anonymity of the mob. As long as no powerful company or government with the power to filter through the mob, takes action. The mob can attack people, as it pleases. Since no single person nor group can handle that.
This also happens on Chinese social media by government design.
Which makes these companies and governments only more powerful, control over the unruly mob.
@@tardvandecluntproductions1278 Yes. This is one of my biggest problems with "cancel culture" as a movement. No one's in charge, there are no rules, and no one is held accountable or cares when they hit the wrong target. There's also no sense of scale. Every sin is treated as equally terrible regardless of how serious it actually is.
I think their should be different rules for different online spaces. I've been big on the need for anon because it allows the underdog to have a voice.
Also it allows equality for those with uncommon names, or names that will make them targets for unrelated issues. Like if someone has a traditional Ghanian name in an online community with few of them around, even if they are as American as everyone else in the online community there they can get targeted for bullying and doxxing without actually having done anything unusual or rare.
Remembered this channel after watching Unus Annus's episode on dead channels. I'm glad to see this channel still alive and kicking.
too bad [redacted] had to join them
I like how laci can put both enough information for others to make an opinion and also her own opinion
I love Laci Green. If she did audio books I would buy them just to listen to that soothing voice.
S to the I to the M to the P
I like her soothing voice after she went on a racist hateful tirade of abuse against white America last elections.
She brushed over somebody being sexually assaulted. She is not a good person and only takes something into account if it agrees with her narrative.
It's literally not even soothing, stop sucking up
It's literally not even soothing, stop sucking up
This has quickly become one of my favorite UA-cam Vlogs. I love how you handle each subject with a centrist mindset. I think a lot of us are in this position and keep quite because of how partisan things have become. I appreciate your voice and your thought process and views on different topics that are effecting everyone today. Thank you.
From everything I've seen of Laci, she seems pretty left leaning. I think she's just a more reasonable and objective person than most, so her views don't seem as confrontational or divisive as a lot of people on either extremes of the spectrum.
honestly the internet as it is right now is fine. you can choose to be anonymous or not and you can always just avoid and not talk to people you think are disingenuous or trolling.
Great video Laci! Love how you've transitioned the channel so far. The way we behave towards each other in the social media age and how we grow to manage it will be so important. It's pleasant to see people like yourself adding unbiased commentary on this topic. Looking forward to hear what you have to say on this in the future.
The fact she is kinda back to UA-cam is giving me so much serotonin
Factual
Didnt ask
Love how informative your videos always are. Been watching you since the time capsule video! Thank you for always providing important information.. it's gotten me through a lot!
Thank you, I began watching you so many years ago. Thank you for keeping the answer-seeking approach thriving!!!
There's a coding youtuber I watch that applied for a job at microsoft. In the job interview, the youtube channel got brought up. She thought it was a good thing but the people at the interview didn't like it. They don't seem to like the idea of having a public figure work for them no matter how far removed from politics it is. She got the job though.
John Hunter whu da utubu?
You are such a cheery and enlightening person ^^ keep up the good work
Hi Laci!!! I love your podcast and have been listening to it all year. I really enjoy your perspective on the topics and your analyses of the internet.
Modeling behavior!!! I love this and I'm glad you mentioned it.
Have missed your insightful uploads. welcome back, Queen of UA-cam
I am SO glad you're back!
This was a lovely take and very informative objective look into the topic. Much appreciated, Laci. ;)
Glad to see you're Back 👏👏❤❤ And I actually feel like there way to speak about when it comes to this Issue. Basically the Internet and Reality has really mixed up, now its NOTHING but Chaos out here.
I've been watching you since high school. So glad to see you on my screen again!
happy to see you uploading!
Absolutely loooove your videos ❤️
It’s great to see you keep on as a voice of moderation!
Feels like a good video diagnosing a problem, going over why attempted solutions have failed and then suggesting some other possible solutiins that could work.
Thank you for hosting a conversation with Slate Star Codex. I loved his blog and I'm sad it had to come to this.
Hidden confrontation makes everyone feel big, kinda like after quite a bit of alcohol some might feel like they can fight anyone (physically or verbally). You made all great points about anonymity. Thank you for another great video
This is so timely! Thank you for making this video!
Laci: One of my favourite things about the internet is how easy it is to be anonymous.
Me: Is... is Laci, not real? 😱
Laci: *Is a sentient box of matches masquerading as a human woman.*
Glad you are back in my feed Laci !
When I was in middle school I watched your videos and honestly it helped my life so much. I learned about consent and they honestly set me up to respect people and have good relationships and good sex. Not even just sex topics like these too. As the years go on I’ve realized that and I think what you do is great Laci (:
Love your channel! Excellent topic
this is a good one thank you for returning.
We love you, Lacy!!!
That was fantastic. Thank you for helping me understand this better, and seeing the previous errors of my ways.
Im so glad to see you back here!
God I've missed Laci and her intelligent well rounded vids. So good to have her uploading again
Really good vid thanks for teaching me more really appreciate it👍🏽
Thank you for bring this discussion.
Laci you are my one of my favorite people i disagree with politically because at least you do research and It seems that anything you believe at least has some research or solid backing, and for that fact Ive liked all you're videos that I've seen keep it up, I'd love to disagree with you in the future
What are your political views? Just curious in what ways you are different to Laci.
@@eagerturtle4791 Far left or "far" right - I'm curious too^^
Thanks for being respectful. Its refreshing.
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Excellent content! Happy i searched your content up again
Great video and very well articulated. This is a very impactful phenomenon today.
I’d love to see a whole series of videos on this topic.
I think the way to fix trolling/toxicity. Is looking at the problems caused in those societies.
There are bad eggs.. but toxicity/bad behaviour increases when unhappiness is increased.
I played alot of online games and I do note that trolls/grievers/toxicity goes up in percentage (not numbers, cause 1 million player game vs 10k player game will obiviously have big troll number differences) is unhappiness in that society or... real life society.
You know.. like bullies are always depicted as "Someone with a troubled past" and " a bad home"
But it's also easier to ruin something that is already ruined. It's like setting a broken house on fire and watching it burn for fun.
If anything most trolls see something as useless and want to burn it down. They have no respect for it or are scared or unhappy.
Toxic people in communities are unhappy and have trouble controling things... and are most likely have some form of anxiety too.
It is a lack of self control.. but thats just 1 aspect.
If you consider an online community growing.. a certain percentage will always troll/ruin it for others cause.. they believe its a waste of time. That is unavoidable.
But that percentage will grow if more disatisifcation grows in a community.
We even see this in communities in real life and certain movements. The longer a community exists.. the more stricted and more demanding that community becomes.. and if things don't improve.. the community goes toxic on the smallest thing.
I believe people grow too easily disastisified lately...and those problems do not come from only their upbringing and social problems in real life.
BUT... it is simply how a community grows and sub communities are made.
Even MMO's have their "Elitists" , "Casuals" , "Meme makers", "Chatters", "Traders", "Try-hards" and such.
And those sub communities clash with eachother. And within those sub communities.. yep.. smaller groups are made who also clash.
It's all weird speculation coming from me. So don't see this as "Science" or "Research" just someone with good observation skills.
....I can keep going on my observations but in the end:
Humans strife for a certain perfection. What is perfect for you, might be extremely flawed to me. And with lack of empathy across the internet without seeing the face and body mood... you are easier to dehumanize someone.. thus online communities are easier to go toxic. Not cause just anomity, but also not seeing the physical results infront of them.
Thanks for the vid, Laci!!
I think the good outweighs the bad. Everyone being able to speak there opinion without cancelation is better then fighting some bad people. Wich I'd guess are less then 2 procent probably even less of all users.
Nice seeing you post a vid again! Keep doing your thing, the thoughts are much appreciated!
0:38 "In my Sex Ed days..." I miss those days looking forward to new Sex+ videos from Laci. I'm glad you're still doing your thing in other ways.
Yeah, remember watching her in the old days of Discovery News.
Comes off as a bit creepy 😂
Ridiculously happy to have you back.
I use a few services that are anonymous even between each post. So one post I'm complaining about my depression, the next im cracking a joke. Maybe I'll express my love to someone (no names), or talk about emotional events in my past. No way to know they are from the same person. So each post is taken as is, with no knowledge of past posts. Those apps allow me to express myself more than others that have my name attached to it. There is so much i want to say and express that I feel I can't IRL.
super clever content!! (as usual) thank you, Laci
This is a super tricky issue where it's probably impossible to be fully on one side or the other all the time. I support people being able to share their political beliefs and question their government, without fear of backlash from having their information be put out into the public. I also think people saying outright hateful and discriminatory things should be called out, and not just be able to stay anonymous. I think it's a case by case basis thing, and we really shouldn't make a strict rule about it. By the way, I love how your videos always make me think about something different!
I agree that people who say horrible things should be called out, but I don't see why they have to lose their anonymity for that. It's entirely possible to call someone out for being an asshat without knowing their personal information. The only point of knowing that personal information is to affect their personal life because of their opinions, which I see as completely inappropriate.
@@mgb360 These people won't ever face real consequences or be held accountable if they're allowed to stay anonymous though. Why should they be allowed to target a particular person or group in a hateful way, but still have the right to privacy?
@@eagerturtle4791 But the alternative might be people losing their livelihoods for mere hateful comments which seems excessive.
@@eagerturtle4791 "These people won't ever face real consequences"
What kind of consequences should they face?
Heck yeah! I'm ready.
This was very informative. Thank you, Laci.
I troll using my real name in Facebook. I’ve given up on what people think. I own my own business and don’t deal with the public so I can’t be canceled.
I wish I had that much self-confidence
That was a good episode. :) Thanks!
Hi Laci. I just want to say thank you. I may not agree with all of your views about life, but what I love the most about your videos is that you speak calmly and rationally. You do your best to see things from all sides instead of yelling your own point of view. There's not enough of this and, in my opinion, you should be one of the few people on the internet that we aspire to be like in terms of how we express ourselves. I'm really happy you've found something you love doing and I hope you continue to find happiness with it. Thank you again!
If I was a boss and one of my employee was toxic outside but a good worked inside then I would not care.
Dang the quality is really good
Laci we love and miss you and your content
It's scary being a Moderate/Egalitarian in the online world.
Any time I want to make a twitter comment on something that isn't just games or pop culture related, I have to run my comment past the filter of "Is the controversy of this non-extremist opinion sufficiently low that I can post it with my real name?"
Usually it's a no. And I have to go over to my Burner account to comment on something as simple as "A white person cosplaying as a fictional character that isn't white is not racist."
Our society is screwed- it only gets worse from here.
(And in regards to his thoughts that social safety nets being a godsend to for the cancel culture- that assumes that the government isn't going to get into the business of social credits or the like. Not a fan.)
Yaaaaayyyyyyyyy Laci 😄😄😄
has no one seen that series of south park with TrollTrace? removing this would mean the death of the internet.
Anonymity is extremely important. The good FAR outweighs the bad and people need to be able to keep their identities secret.
Love your videos !!!
Oh my gosh it's been so long since I've seen one of your videos! I don't know why as I loved your sex ed videos! Loved this video!
I like this type of contontent you have been uploading lately.
I was having this thought the other day. I think that's also why Twitter is so toxic. On Facebook if you say stuff then that shows up in your friends feed, not so with Twitter.
Hm? On Twitter, you got stuff one your feed if your friend so much as "liked" something, and you tend to see their comments too, especially if you followed both parties.
@@HexManiacQuinn in addition, Facebook only shows your activities if you want it to, i have all that stuff disabled on mine
With the doxing that happens on Twitter it's clear that we need anonymity else half the population would lose their jobs or worse
I have always loved your content
I think it was really bold of laci to be making a video with this title and honestly I'm suprised at how wholesome the comments I've seen so far are. This channel's audience has come a long way hasn't it?
Great timing! Couldn't be any more relevant lol
I have been following you since I was a teen (I am 26 now!) It is so nice to watch you grow, stay true to yourself, and advocate. Thank you for balancing your personal life with yoir professional life so that you can continue to make videos that help everyone!
trash
Is that really Scott? If it's him, it's really awesome to see him in video for the first time, even if its in a non-traditional way.
Laci: An On Ymity
Me: Anonymity
Nemo: An Anemone
Thank you
This is so different than what I remember from like 4-5 years ago
Great thought provoking video.. We should be able to voice and have opinions that aren't popular without fear of losing our job or worse... it's an unfortunate time that we live in that many people can't do so.
This is AWESOME!
I haven't watched one of your videos in quite a while, I didn't know you left the sex ed orientation. But I like your new style :)
And yes, let's fight that a 1984-style world does never happen. What China establishes scares me a lot. And other states too, seems a lot of leaders try to concentrate power and spit on the idea of a free, democratic, self-thinking society.
Thank you, worth thinking about
We appreciate you
What do you think of cancel culture on celebrities, ie the open letter recent signed by several writers, or other personalities?
That woman who did not have a job to lose but in the future employers will look her up on the internet and believe that she would be to much trouble to hire. She did benefit from her outburst through gofundme donations.
?
Something to keep in mind is the difference between shallow anonymity and deep anonymity. Shallow anonymity means using pseudonyms or using platforms where you can post namelessly. It's shallow because your anonymity extends to the people who do not have the access or the authority to dig deeper. Using 4chan namelessly for example doesn't mean that a government agency can't fairly trivially request the platform for your information. And so when you're dealing with oppressive regimes, using a different name is simply not enough, you need to use methods of deep anonymity by using the TOR browser for example. Read more here: www.privacytools.io/
I wish you'd talked about pseudonymity. It's a third option that allows you to face repercussions for bad behaviour without it permanently hurting your real life.
This is a really good video. It made me really think.
An actually good video on cancel culture... hard to believe.
Love the video
This is why I like 4chan. I've had some of the best and stupidest conversations and arguments on there. Having anonymity allows me to voice my real opinions and beliefs without compromise; something I cannot do with my real name attached. It's a blessing.
I still find all of this fascinating.. back in the day it was nearly 100% accepted that maintaining your anonymity online was not only a good thing but also smart. As the Internet progressed and more and more people came online we started to get a new crowd showing up in numbers that were frankly morons posting their home address, real name, photos, etc... basically everything you find on facebook now but with no protections. This is when the story started to change from everyone being anonymous and safe to suddenly threats and stalking started to be talked about. As time has progressed that early wisdom of everyone being anonymous seems to be totally thrown out because of what amounts to D list celebrities experiencing the reality of putting their face and opinions in front of a billion people and for some moronic reason the idea that your web presence should be tied to your real world identity gets talked about.
If you wish to toss away the protection of being anonymous for whatever reason feel free but I have zero interest in tieing by online presence to my real world name and location. The police can already pull the ip logs from the sites and goto the provider and find out which subscriber is responsible in case legal action needs to be done, that is more than enough.
What kind of reality checks would you envision in a social media platform??
if talking your job away does not do enough damage, people actually kill you. Anonymity is the only way to go. It forces you to attack the opinion and not the person.
It's great to listen you
Well said.
Good to see you're still doing your thing in a different capacity, Laci! You raise some excellent points here, too.
Is US censorship more acceptable than Chinese censorship? I'm curious what you feel the difference is Laci. Thanks for another great video
Showing your name in the outside world is connected with a sense freedom and courage (maybe even lawfulness?). But I think that in the online world anonymity is a form of self defense mechanism.
It is so much easier for personal info to slip online. So, even though it is highly unlikely for most people to be attacked, you are still risking your information to fall into the wrong hands.
It can't be denied that people can be malicious and cannot always be trusted. And I don't think that the possibility of your data being used by someone you don't trust should be taken lightly.
To summarize, I believe the answer is lying in a fine line between being true but at the same time not being naive and careless with your info.
missed u glad to see you on the tube tube gal
The ability to be anonymous online has become extremely limited by the socialization of all websites. 10 years ago almost NO ONE used their real name on UA-cam. Now many do.
Using your real name online is a horrible idea. I am always amazed when I see people using their real names.
@@myhandlewastakenandIgaveup no one is truly anonymous ever but seeing an obviously fake name and pic deters people from fucking with you at least