"Fool! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue!" Just once, just once I want an actual villain to say this and completely derail the Third Act Breakdown.
Villain "Stop! Hold on, time!" *speed dials therapist* "...Dr Morgan, I know this is a bad time...yes...It's about that-uhuh, yup. Main good guy took a real good jab at it...Yeah I'll tell him-" *turns to main hero* "My therapist says you owe him 500 bucks for all the sessions you just flushed down the drain...oh and that you're a malignant pox who shouldn't be called a hero...hey Doc mind if I borrow tha-really? Thanks man..."
"It seems our goals have aligned for the third time this month." "So does that mean I'm a bad hero, or that you're a bad villain?" "A quandary no doubt."
This is actually a really fun concept.... Especially if the villain is actually a double agent, and that's why their goals keep on lining up For extra fun, the hero doesn't know this. 😁
Dr. Doofenshmirtz never gives up, even when his arch-enemy refuses to try and fold his plan to insult the macaroni and cheese recipe of a whale. "Wait! My evil plan isn't evil enough for you to foil? Is that it? Really? I just insulted the macaroni and cheese recipe of a whale! What part of that is not evil?!"
Doof _does_ have a code of some sorts: he rigidly follows the cliches of villainy. He builds all his traps with a way to escape, all his inators with a self-destruct button, and all his plans with a fail state. He could probably figure out a way to pragmatically kill Perry with little fuss, or keep his plans under wraps enough for Perry not to learn about them until it's too late, but he's more interested in their "nemesis game" than he is in winning, and it's not fun if it's not fair.
@Tin Watchman That depends, a. do they have other issues to stay villianous for? and b. does the situation allow for them to turn form the path of villiany? hard to go good when the cops get called everywhere you go and vengeance driven heroes hound your steps to off you.
That one's right up their with the subversion of, "Your [insert emotionally significant other] wouldn't want this!!!" "Actually, my mother/teacher/brother/girlfriend actually had a real thing for circuitous world domination - we talked about it a lot."
"Fool! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue!" I love how this villain has a therapist. Now I'm just imagining a villain sitting down with a therapist talking about their obsession with messing with the protagonist. XD
I thought you werent allowed to use Foundation accounts for recreational videos anymore. Stop fucking things up man. Like half of the SCPs could have a "you aren't allowed near them" sticker.
@@Sorain1 Imagine how awkward it must be for a villain like Thanos or Sauron publicly apologizing for the mass murder of millions of people. TBH I would pay to see something like that.
High key, I actually find that annoying. Yeah, hurting an animal is bad, but killing a person is still objectively worse. I know it's fiction so there is a bit of removal from the situation, but I've always disliked a character who's hurt a human more than a character who's hurt a dog.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi I agree, I like animals as much as the next guy but killing a human is much more heinous. I can also think of much more situations where killing an animal would be morally justified.
I think the reason audiences react more strongly towards animal deaths because of our societal turn towards caring for the animals we've domesticated. It's a very strong betrayal of trust towards the animals we've come to rely on and care for. That's usually why the animal killed is a dog or cat, or creature that exhibits traits akin to animals humans have domesticated. People also have a much stronger reaction when villains kill children than when they kill adults. Children and animals are seen as more innocent (I'd even argue naive) and incapable of properly fighting back against an adult human. When you pit a grown human against another grown human, the fight seems more equal.
I think that's actually pretty reasonable, because there are complettly understandable reasons for commiting homicide (from a standpoint that ignores most peoples morality obiviously, but it still happend often enough in reality..) On the other hand when a villain kills/hurts an animal most of the time it's only purpose is to show how evil/sadistic/etc the villain is, which means that there's no real reason for them to actually do it. In conclusion the first thing is either the villans goal or at least furthers it, while the second only has meta reasons which makes it bad writting.
DnD alignments are relative to the world not to a person. They are a trait that others can discover (with spells usually) and play around, and they're basically meant to make the DM and other players lives easier if they know how to exploit it, at least that's how I see them. Unfortunately people like to argue that "lawful good" still applies to personal codes which completely misrepresents the rule. Do they follow the laws of their society? If so they are lawful, if not, chaotic, if they don't care, neutral. This makes following your own code very neutral, you won't follow unjust laws as neutral good, but might still care about giving your villain a fair trial out of principle. You might break your friend out of prison but submit to judgement when you're caught. Alignments are a fun narrative tool to play with if you know what you're doing, but a source of frustration to some parties and DMs when carelessly messed with.
The villain is preparing their evil plan. They have already recruited a skilled assassin, a mad scientist, a hacker, henchmen and a legal team. The last step, the most important, is now to convince the best therapist in the country to help them through their childhood trauma to finally take over the world.
I'd love to see Red do the "Villain was Right," "The Villain has a Point," or other troops that boil down to "The Villain has good intentions or even is right, but they're still committing evil acts."
I actually have a variant of this in the works in a scifi story. An individual with seedy yet semi legitimate corporate holdings is funding developing colonies on a number of worlds and is able to out compete or even starve out existing and established economies because of the resources that he can move around. Another consequence of this is that he has enough influence that most government officials. (Because of the logistics of communicating across a galaxy, there are only loose government ties between stars and the actual inter galactic governing structure is a series of sub galactic governments just talking as separate entities). he actually orchestrates the destruction of three four separate colonies and survivors tra e it back to him, with no government body willing to punish him for it or to listen to them. They find and confront him about his actions, but the colonies that he destroyed were under the control of an "inter galactic" cabal. Basically, there is a cabal that controls communication between solar systems and has members of high ranking government officials and several economic concerns across the milky way galaxy (there are three inter galactic conglomerates and they founded this group when expanding into the milky way) who's main concern is to keep control of the region in the hands of those founding members so that they can avoid directly fighting each other though most of the galaxy is oblivious to this. The villain who is right is someone who is aware of this group and wields enough clout to oppose their operations outside of the law and to compete with their economic concerns. This man who destroyed four colonies has been actively trying to supplant this entity and to let legitimate power take over, meaning that when he has succeed, he would dissolve his own corporate interests (or at least remove himself from them) and turn himself in. He was right about an intergalactic conspiracy and was able to fight them on their terms, but at the cost of significant human developments and many innocents killed or displaced.
In one story I'm reading, the protagonists orchestrate a war for the purpose of killing a bunch of people, because for magical reasons, if a bunch of people don't die the world blows up.
7:44 There’s an episode of Phineas & Ferb where Doofenshmirtz does exactly this. He joins a super villian group, helps them quite a bit, learns that their end goal is to destroy the world, says that’s too far, leaves, sides with the good guys.
dropping this amazing tumblr post here “Why do people like a character who’s committed war crimes but hate this other character just because they’re annoying” because it’s fiction Susan, and being annoying in fiction is a greater sin than being a supervillain, because it won’t make me want to read about them. It isn’t difficult to understand -villainsmatter
It doesn't help that some people are A-OK with war crimes if they're being done to people they don't like. But yeah, an understandable lack of moral discretion with fictional characters is also a factor.
I'd like to add that we've all met annoying people in life, and sometimes that primal force of hate just flows through our veins stronger bc they affect us a lot more personally
"How did he figure that out?" "He's a genius, duh." "How were we supposed to figure that out?" "It's very important for my ego that you never get a chance." Along with the comparison to (oddly specified to be) well-written detectives and the use of the trope of The Watson, I'm starting to think it's a dig against Moffat's Sherlock
Yep... First character I thought of actually... And they wonder why the sequel trilogy was a dumpster fire, with such stellar storytelling and character development like that...😒
@@priscillabrown210 Kylo Ren always has been an impulsive edgy teenager wannabe the next Darth Vador. Not that the Sequel trilogy was good, as it was basically "throw it all over the board" every movie but it's not inconsistency in character there at least
Grand Admiral Thrown from the Star Wars novels is a great example of how to do weaknesses for a Magnificent Bastard: He successfully pulls off gambits left and right, but always with some small miscalculations he either brushes off or doesn't even notice. These miscalculations are minor on their own, but in the endgame they all come piling together down on top of his head.
@@Kyl0_ben I think "Rebels" made him less impressive. In the novels he was taking on the New Republic with the remnants of the Empire. In Rebels he's using the Empire in it's prime to hunt down a ragtag group of misfits.
@@TheKersey475 He still comes off as more impressive then everyone else. Every other imperial we see in the show is a power hungry idiot that keeps getting outsmarted by said group of rebels. Thrawn shows up and he's immediately far more respectable then any other villain we've seen, more nuanced. He actually cares about the enemies he fights, he respects them and actually sees them as a people with their own complex history and culture. On top of that he's terrifyingly efficient, he only ever loses cause some force deus ex machina catches him off guard, something he couldn't *ever* expect could reasonably happen.
That's exactly who I was thinking of! I love the writing on him. The newer Thrawn books that give him his origin story or whatever kind of slip into the "Hero of Another Story" territory, but he retains enough ruthlessness and unbreakable commitment to his goals that it doesn't ruin him for the antagonist role.
No that's stupid believe it or not some people do bad things things and other people don't Wooah that is madness I can't think of anyone not anyone who falls into those categories
Also in Carmen Sandiego's case, at least in the cartoon: Carmen was ACME's best agent and she turned to villainy specifically to test them and make sure they never became complacent.
@@TheKyrix82 Because he was a crazy guy who wanted to destroy everybody in the world? The other group of _Final Fantasy_ villains merely want to conquer the world, but tree-of-angel was in the kill 'em all camp.
@@boobah5643 Actually no, Kefka beat him to that ages beforehand. And Kuja wasn't willing to stop at just 'the world', but all life in the universe. Sephiroth is really the kid sitting at the grownup's table of the villains, Omnicidal maniacs are kind of FF's calling card, and most of them succeeded to some extent.
@@TheKyrix82 Honestly, it's because of two things: first, he actually killed a party member. That's pretty much unheard of, especially back when 7 came out. Second, he's a hot anime pretty boy who debuted right when video game graphics were starting to get good enough to show it. I agree that he's one of the weaker ff villains, but I understand why he's popular.
@@10001vader Except no. Final Fantasy 2 had so much of the cast die that later versions had a special quest JUST for all the dead people. Final Fantasy 4 had near deaths for almost everyone and one permanent party death against the presumed big bad. 5 had a party member die fighting the final boss. 6 had a party member who COULD die if you didn't wait for him. In fact, I was so used to this that I didn't even blink when Sephiroth got his kill. I was just "Oh, so this game does it too..." And as for 'hot anime pretty boy', almost every male Final Fantasy villain has also been that. Kefka, Seifer, Golbez outside of his armor, Kuja, Seymour. I mean, it's kind of a thing. And again, those villains pretty much all accomplished something...Kefka literally destroyed the world, Kuja laid waste to every major kingdom on Garnet's world AND destroyed his own, X-Death was at the cusp of victory when he was finally beaten, etc. Sephiroth is...pretty. That's it. Except even then, he's not 'the prettiest' pretty boy in the series. Mid tier at best.
Xanatos: "This is my first real stab at cliche villainy, how am I doing?" By and far one of my favorite lines he says in the entire series. Just the right amount of ham in a deadly serious situation.
Everything about Xanatos always seemed so...just on the edge, you know? Like, he's constantly keeping himself in check from doing anything tremendously dumb. But this? This was just him having a laugh.
@@nicholasmaddocks7545 It was quoted elsewhere in the comments, but "Revenge is a sucker's game" sums him up perfectly. It's so easy to fall into the payback trap. He just shrugs and moves on, not letting himself be derailed. And that's what makes him simultaneously the most and least dangerous adversary in the series.
Personally what makes me Smile with Xanatos is that he Keeps moving his Goalpost in such a way that he always considers every Situation a win... Best Example is an Episode where he only Features as Filler for time, and he's not even Part of the Scheme of the Episode... He's Just in his Castle, playing Chess with Fox... and by the end of the Match, Fox actually Wins against him at Chess. And Fox Says something along the Lines of "I'm Sorry Dear, should I have Let you Win? I Know how you Hate to Loose...", and Xanatos Just answers "Oh, no. Because you See my Dear, by you Beating me at this game, I've actually won something far more Precious: A True Equal", Which is Both So Completely Arrogant, and Yet Kinda Romantic when you Remember that he's talking about his Wife... He Really is the Ultimate Magnificent Bastard.... I mean "charismaniac"...
Idea: Magnificent Bastard villian who unnaturally good at improvising. Like on the fly, hero thought they foil their plan but it seemed the villain is unaffected and whipped out a new one. In reality, the villain is the dm for a party that consistently derailed the campaign and yet they roll on with it.
That's Preminger from _Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper_ He had planned taking over the kingdom for 10 years, but during the movie he comes up with a new plan *twice* that still used his original plan as a basis. And they even showed very well how he observed the main characters. I like that he didn't know more than he should, and in terms of information was behind for most of the movie, but through observation and sniffling he found out what really happened. They showed the game of chess between Preminger and Julian, and a game of poker between Preminger and Erika.
Xanatos is legit a man I want to become: a man whose plans always benefit him no matter the outcome. Xanatos is the epitome of the idea: "if you plan to fail, your plan will never fail."
@@angrytheclown801 Yes. I know. This is a video that uses a picture of Xanatos and talks about him. The comment I was replying to mentioned Xanatos by name. Everybody here knows it's named after him.
it's interesting how the author uses "killing the dog" only for those he wants to paint as monsters; killing other people, meh.. even heroes do that sometimes
It's interesting because you need to balance the bliss of finally having a character blessed with common sense who doesn't make you cry "whyyyyy" every five seconds with the slight loss of dramatic risks you get from having characters consistently make stupid decisions. This is definitely a trope talk I want.
The 90s Carmen Sandiego is in an interesting place regarding weaknesses/invulnerability. She herself is basically untouchable. In one ep, Ivy and Zack manage to mess with her escape plan, but she flashes her backup backup escape plan while escaping via her backup escape plan. In the original games, putting her in jail is the goal; in the 90s cartoon, it's clearly beyond possibility. Easy recipe for a boring invincible villain. And yet, she's not boring, /because/ she approaches it as a game. Her schemes can be foiled, and she'll help that emotional catharsis by complimenting your victory while she flies away scot-free. What could be boring invincibility is reframed into something more like "your chess opponent will walk away from the table unscathed".
It could help that he's also the single most meme-able villain in existence. I never have, nor ever intend to, watch JoJo, but even I know all the Dio memes purely through osmosis.
Regular Villains: Yeah, I hit that woman. Magnificent bastard characters: (Tommy Wiseau voice) That's not true, that is bullshit! I did not hit her, I did NOT.
Audience: "How were we supposed to figure that out?" Author: "It's very important to my ego that you never get a chance." Red summarizing all of Sherlock with background jokes
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi Thats why I liked in the classic series, where it was hinted that time lords were also just a little bit psychic, to justify some of the BS.
A thing I feel like not enough writers appreciate; "I can't write a character smarter than me!" Yes, you bloody well can. You are the author, you are omnipotent, omniscient, intelligence is about noticing details, connecting things, making insights, understanding concepts and people from limited information - you know more than the character does, you always have more *time* than the character does! Intellect is speed, observation, insight, connection, and understanding. You have more capacity to do that than the character could just by your privileged, even omniscient position as the author.
Also, intelligence isn't "what can they figure out?", it's also "how fast?" If it took you a month to figure out how a character gets through a difficult problem, but it only took them a week, they are smarter than you- simply because they came to the same conclusion but faster.
The key here is that you have to portray the genius’ thought processes to the audience. This is why Lin-Manuel Miranda said it took him a year just to write the song “My Shot;” to him, Hamilton is just so much smarter than he is, it took a year to create lyrics dense enough to portray his intellect.
My friend came up with a character named Bugnar, an insectoid god in a D&D like setting. He has so many Xanatos Gambits running in the background, that no matter what happens, he is pleased with the outcome. However, the audience never gets to see any of those machinations, so all they see is: [thing happens] -> Bugnar pops up and says, "Bugnar is pleased!" It is theorized that Bugnar is incapable of feeling displeasure.
I had one of those in a campaign, someone succeeded in a spell to read his mind and found out that his "Plans" were him poking random people in ways (dropped money on the ground where they were going to walk, caused it to rain so that 2 people talked longer, etc.) and then watched them and their kids until they see something neat happen so he'd get to show up to say "You've done well and pleased the Gods" before going away again.
I mean, it kind of is. Look at how many romantic tragedies there are. Hell, Anakin Skywalker fell to the dark side because of love. The mistake is thinking weaknesses are a bad thing.
@@jfangm It wasn't "because of love", it was because of selfishness. As soon as it stopped being mutual and he calling the shots himself (ignoring her input), it stopped being love and became selfishness which he was calling "love".
13:28 Oooh, I remember this episode! It's one of my favorites. Harley Quinn nearly got the better of him (something he snidely pointed out to the Joker) and he got out of it by laughing at her. She'd NEVER heard him laugh before--no one had--and she was horrified enough by it to stop what she was doing. Then he manipulated her into calling the Joker and derailed her plan. She was really smart. He was just barely smarter...pudding.
@@peepopopo7140 what was so satisfying about it, is just how well it was written. It was extremely bittersweet, the execution was brilliant. It's incredibly sad because she's 14 and has fallen into this deep pit of manipulation and psychological abuse, that there cannot be another satisfying ending to Azula than her breaking down.
It is more or less bittersweet, because you see how this person who thought she was on top, but was nothing but a pawn to his father, falls apart after years of abusing and being abused, and the look Zuko gives her in the end is magnificent. It says how Azula is being destroyed by something he already overcame, and how they could’ve both walk the same way, but only one of them was willing to change. It is not a happy victory, it is a tragedy. But all of that is satisfying nonetheless.
@@peepopopo7140 In animated series I always forget how young the protagonists often are. Azula always feels like a character in her late teens, early twenties at least. At least to me. But maybe that is just because I subconsciously try to get the main characters closer to my age? Don't know.
I think that Ian from the first National Treasure film was a good example of a magnificent bastard. He doesn't understand the history as well as the main characters, but you can see him putting it together for himself while his henchmen scratch their heads and wonder. Like the protagonist Ben says he's dangerous because "he's smart and has almost unlimited resources". We the audience are not usually surprised to see him showing up hot on the heels of the protagonists because we've been seeing clips of him putting things together for himself. Bribing a little kid was straight genius
clicked for xanatos. "only you would consider love a weakness." and the immediate face change. goliath rattled him good and he knew it and hated it. fuck, gargoyles was such a good show, such a huge part of my childhood. miss it so much
Anyone else want to see red talk about the "ancient tech is the best tech" trope because it is in nearly EVERYTHING. Like the guardians in botw, magical artifacts in everything fantasy, the covenant and crystal skull in Indiana Jones, even in recent history like prototype weapons developed in ww2 that are extremely powerful yet never seen the front lines. (edit)spelling errors (edit 2 electric boogaloo) I am counting magic as tech since in most fantasy stories magic is what they use instead of conventional technology.
Would be funny to write a short story on this premise. The heroes are confronted with a horrible and ancient evil and go to great lengths to find a mythical ancient weapon - only to find out it is a bit of a joke and has long been taken over by contemporary technology. They then proceed to shoot Voldemort with machine guns.
My favorite Xanatos moment is when he proves he is a self made mad He found the rare coin, sent it to himself from the past and told himself everything he would need to do Such a charismaniac
Darn, Azula should have been mentioned during the 3rd part breakdown considering Mai and Ty Lee betrayed her, then she lost her sanity, Katara and Zuko kicked her ass then finally threw her into an insane asylum while Ozai get energybended and permanently locked up in prison at the series very ending.
@@emiljosefsson9149 I think Avatar at this point just does everything right, if it isn't mentioned exclusively for something it *didn't* do, then it's better just to assume it portrays the trope exactly.
@@emiljosefsson9149 I don’t really see her fitting this archetype. I mean, what was her code or what were her goals? Don’t get me wrong, she was a great villain, but I never saw her as “magnificent”.
"Good morning, doctor. I'd like to discuss a spot of drama that I encountered last week, if I may?" "Mrph-mrr-mrph" "Why thank you. It all began with ... my apologies, doctor, where is my mind today? Mister Trace, please remove the good doctor's gag if you would?"
the idea of a villain/antagonist who buys nice shit for the hero every so often to the point where the hero is just like "oh!!! nice thanks :D" is hilarious ngl
I think we love them because they are a power fantasy of self-control, self-actualization and the unwavering pursuit of goals despite resistance, criticism or even societal constraints. They are true to themselves and don't care what people think in a way that it's wrong, but feels so good and liberating.
"There's the 90s version of Carmen San Diego" Me, who never watches any show of that series and just saw some persons talking aout it: Wait, Carmen San Diego is the vilain?!
Originally, it was a computer game. Which ended up being the first of a series of computer games. Then that was made into the premise of the quiz show... ... and _then_ a goahead animated cartoon, clips shown during this video. ... And more recently, the Netflix series, which switched the terms around enough that Carmen's _opposing_ the villains and not the main antagonist the heroes are trying to catch.
This also feels like “how to play an evil character in D&D”. Be so honor or code heavy you don’t be evil to the party, or be so driven towards their goal that the party isn’t their concern. Add in that they should probably enjoy the company of the party, you’ve done it! Another option is just play the charismatic rude boi and point it at the opponents instead of fellow players.
Or make it that they have a sense of loyalty to a member/s of the party so they're evil is kept in check by not wanting to piss of their good aligned friends, peer pressure isn't always a bad thing.
Indeed, Regill from Pathfinder:Wrath of the righteous(where you lead a crusade against demons invading the world) is a really good example of this. He belongs to the Hellknights organization that basically prioritizes law and order over practically anything else. The first time you see him, he kills his own wounded soldiers to prevent them from being captured, as well as to prevent them to slow the rest down. He also rewards the soldier that ran to get your character to aid him with double pay that month....as well as 100 lashes for abandoning his post to do so. Regill is ruthless, callous and does little to hide his disdain of those he considers weak or foolish. But he is calm and composed, supremely principled in his approach, As well as surprisingly practical at times. His goal is to end the demonic invasion, and he doesen´t flinch from doing things at his own cost as well as others if it means victory.
@@badconnection4383 Yes. The lawful/chaotic scale is informed by how your character conforms to the standards and expectations of society at large; personal codes have no effect on it for the most part.
As much as I love Magnificent Bastards, I think my favorite type of villain is the intelligent monster. Best example being Bill Cypher: an omnipotent, evil being of chaos whose sole goal is to cause discord and have fun doing it.
Yes Bill Cipher is exactly one of the best villains in animated shows because of his charm and quirks, but he is far too sadistic and evil to be MB and his clear goal mentioned above is like he's gonna kill someone now for the heck of it, he also loses his composure at the verge of his defeat.
"an omnipotent, evil being of chaos" So used to the beings of chaos being the good guys and the beings of order being the bad guys or "lawful neutral antagonists" that I was shortly confused. Well I did hear that Gravity Falls is a series with a lot of originality.
I simply like villains like night feeder from primal where the villain just seems unstoppable, it’s insane and simply just enjoys killing for sport as well as have something like amazing speeds and also have some type of intelligence. Those villains scare me
I love her mini-cartoons. 10:00 Hero: raises 'need for validation' sign Magnificent Bastard: FOOL! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue! Hero: Gasp!
@@thomaseasley2938 it’s a reference to the movie Pattron. Basically, Pattron believes in one scene he’s fighting Rommel, and he’s laughing because he read Rommel’s book on warfare tactics.
Normal villains have "Kick-the-Dog" moments. Charismaniacs have "Pet-the-Dog" moments. Edit: Why the hell does this have 2 thousand likes. All I did was just kinda put one of her drawings into words.
Like Kilgrave from Jessica Jones when he used his powers for the ultimate good and made a nosy neighbor admit that she was just talking nonsense that she knew about the accident to sound important, and she herself would like to slap anyone who said such a horrible thing. (After that he made her explode, but still) I love him for that.
@@יעלוייסברג They start out a villain though- Well no, they start out an antagonist, but you get my point. Stopping to save someone instead of chase the avatar isn't Zuko-like at that point
I have one of these in my D&D 5e game, he's a vampire named Lazarus who's almost as old as the world who because undead basically to spite the god of death and so he'll live long enough to bring her back. His immortality has him losing touch with reality over time, his ultimate motivation is to bring his wife back, he isn't the main bad guy of the game, but he is kind of an anti-villain, he's clearly evil, but he helps the Protagonists from time to time if they're willing to do something for him. He's insanely smart, and knows most magical lore and history because he was there, but he isn't omniscient in anyway. He's been blindsided by other villains before, but just always has contingencies. He could easily become the main villain when they eventually look into his history, but that could be an entirely new story in itself.
Likeable villains are my favourite type of villain. Not because they're redeemable and shit, but just because they're so cool that they undeniably shine out the protagonist
A hero is only as great as the trials he or she overcomes. Apollo Creed was the greatest of all trials, because he is not some punk, he not some soulless monster, he is a true Champion, a real warrior ... the most worthy foe ... who then later becomes the heroes best friend and mentor. Truly a great character.
@@anna-flora999 Every story needs a complex villain because without them, heroes cannot shine, villains are the sources of conflict that keeps the plot moving forward. In fact, villains are the heroes of their stories, which means that when the world is looked at their perspective instead of just plain bad.
The back may have to be the the title of the video here, but in a color that almost matches the fabric so it'll force those who actually notice their may be writing to strain their eyes... It'll fit the profile a bit... Maybe...
That's why I kinda don't like the finale of avatar the last airbender because it let's ang retain this black and white thinking without understanding where the line is. Hell every known avatar admits that sometimes? You do have to kill someone. Plus the energy bending just comes out of left field of asspull. When did they ever talk about that? The four nations learned from the moon, the badgers, the dragons, and the flying bisian. And no, legand of Korea doesn't get a pass for explaining it after the fact
@@Imsexysryurnot spirit bending was an asspull because nickelodeon couldn't have aang purposefully kill someone. While it is the right thing to do to kill firebending hitler, it is not something you should teach children watching the show.
@@iceluvndiva21 i have no problem with him coming up with a way to stop ozai without killing him, but yeah agreed the way its done is a asspull. Even though it was still cool.
Darn, Azula should have been mentioned during the 3rd part breakdown considering Mai and Ty Lee betrayed her, then she lost her sanity, Katara and Zuko kicked her ass then finally threw her into an insane asylum while Ozai get energybended and permanently locked up in prison at the series very ending.
@@dustincompton992 to bad he then reavled that he cheeted in the fight with Lisa Lisa and only cared about becoming the ultimate lifeform that magnifcant evil Bastard
Yes, that's a Sherlock Holmes story. I don't know if it was adapted to the BBC show Sherlock, but if it was that's _probably_ how the episode would have gone. Then they would have spent the rest of the runtime revealing empty mystery boxes, queerbaiting, and talking about Moriarty or whatever I don't know.
@@lukeroberson2115 It's from the books in the Legends Timeline, where Thrawn first appeared, not the new Disney Canon. I know he isn't dead in the new Canon but if they do kill him at some point I want his end to be as poignant as his Legends death.
This. Love Thrawn. He's only really undone by stuff that he has no way of foreseeing. The fact that the Noghri were loyal to someone other than him in the books (because, at least early on in the Legends EU, the idea that Vader was Luke and Leia's father wasn't generally known), and the space whales in Rebels. That, and in Legends he was hesitant to discard a potential resource, even when said resource is more trouble than its worth (if he had killed Ferrier in DFR, or C'Both midway through TLC, things would have gone VERY different).
I'm LOVING how you showed the Pride and Kimblee Clip to display the conflict of a Goal-Oriented character and a Code-Oriented character. I'd subscribe twice if I could.
it's the DMC Dante vs DmC Donte question right there: Donte smokes, cusses, and acts like an ass throughout his one game Dante wears ridiculous clothes, lives off a diet of pizza and strawberry sundaes, and occasionally breaks into Shakespearean prose
@@GooBootheWarrior I think what they were going for was a villain who was really only in it for power and to kill people for fun, but who'd tricked himself into thinking he was doing it for selfless reasons. But it kinda fell flat because no one ever called him out on it.
I like how azula from avatar, is constantly refered to as one of the best villains in animation and fits the magbast really well but it falls apart at the whole "press here for tantrum" bit. I feel like it would've been easy for the gang to fuck up her plans a little and mock her and she'd have the third act breakdown super early. That said, our protagonists aren't the sharpest shed in the bright box and in early avatar, she was always a step ahead simply because they didn't know what to expect. Case and point, azula is a great villain and avatar is amazing so watch it
It wasn't exactly a push the Tantrum button moment because there were some build-up and losing the Agni Kai was just the final straw Edit: I agree that Azula is an amazing villain
Azula isn't a Magnificent Bastard, though she has some traits.. she fails in the big Picture.. MB are well aware of his/her weaknesses and work to counter them. MB manipulate through sheer charisma and Batman's Gambit stuff.. Azula manipulates mainly through intimidation and fear, she does that to her close ones, and everybody under her orders.. She only tries to manipulate using charisma and mind games to those she doesn't have power over (Like her Grandfather, uncle, etc) People working for a Magnificent bastard, not only admire, respect and fear their leader.. but also trust him/her.. People under the command of Azula, mostly respect and fear her... A Magnificent bastard, never loses his/her cool, when losing... Azula OTOH..
@@robertoc2105 so very much this. Azula is not a magnificent bastard by any stretch, because she completely fails at the "taking a setback in stride" part.
@@Ilyak1986 Agreeing with this whole thread, just wanted to add that Azula is basically still a child (think she's supposed to be 14?),she feels like a charismaniac-to-be to me
I dunno, getting stabbed because you're big brain made three wrong conclusions doesn't seem very plot-armory. New Thrawn... yeah, we're still in the second act of his stuff, so we have yet to see.
Azula in atla season 3 is a great example of a Magnificent Bastard third act breakdown- you watch as this persona she's created of the utterly cool and confident warrior princess who almost singlehandedly conquered the Earth Kingdom falls away to reveal a teenager who's been utterly broken by the weight of expectations and the abandonment of the people close to her
And the thing is, she still counts as an MB because she bounces back in the comics! Honestly, I also find her immensely sympathetic despite her being firmly evil, since the character who manipulated _her_ the most is Ozai, her own father, and a fascist tyrant who uses her throughout the show as a killing machine, leaving her in the dust near the very end of the show to commit genocide on the earth kingdom and triggering the breakdown in the first place. She also stands out because, for these reasons, her breakdown is less satisfying and more _genuinely tragic_ .
I started watching the show after I finished this video. The first thought that popped into my head at the end of episode one was, "Wow. Disney actually made this?!"
Alucard is the perfect example of this archetype. Spent 700 years murdering millions of people, got his ass kicked by a human who couldn't kill him, and pledged his undying loyalty to that human's bloodline.
"Revenge, as they say, is a sucker's game." And a really good example of the "Third act meltdown" has to be Professor Ratigan in "The Great Mouse Detective" - throughout the movie he's affably evil and overtly polite while maintaining his air of menace (ESPECIALLY when his berserk button of being called a Rat is pushed), but once he sees his greatest scheme thwarted by Basil, he goes full-on feral rat mode, and it is *terrifying* to see him give up all pretense of civility (literally, as his dapper suit gets torn to shreds) in his now single-minded focus to just *kill* his most hated enemy.
Loved The Great Mouse Detective. And not to mention, they got the whole “Shows Deductive Reasoning/Intelligence” thing right. I really think that it’s underrated, (Or just not talked about) so it was really nice for that movie to be an example in this Trope Talk.
As a kid, the instant they got to Big Ben, I was hiding behind the couch because feral Ratigan terrified me. I wouldn’t come back out until after Basil was safe.
3:36 I really wished Red illustrated herself as an author slipping an answer sheet into the charismaniac's pocket and everyone else chiming in "I saw that!". Represents the hand of the author no longer being invisible
Believe it or not, that change to Batman, The Whole “Marking Criminals to Die in Prison” was ripped off of Moon Knight. So that decision was not only stupid, it wasn’t even original. 🙄
I think there's one line that *perfectly* sums up Hans Gruber, after being called a 'common thief': "I am an *exceptional* thief, Mrs McClane, and since I'm moving up to kidnapping, you should be more polite." It's quite awesome, because not only do we see a glimpse at one his main traits, his ego, we also get a brilliant 3rd act breakdown (just being called a petty thief *really* gets under his skin) as we also see that this very ego has been shattered by john McClane's actions.
@@artsman412 Having listened to the audiobooks of the trilogy (as well as the "duology" that was a follow-up afterward), Yeah, Zahn's original writing was top-tier stuff. The fact his second novel trilogy was constrained by the Disney EU cramped his style just a bit.
Although sometimes with the art thing he could kind of feel a little overpowered and I adore the thrawn trilogy and just mainly the bit on obra ski but palleon would also fit pretty well but he’s more of a sympathetic villain.
"Fool! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue!"
Just once, just once I want an actual villain to say this and completely derail the Third Act Breakdown.
Ever read the "Dr Blink" comics? (Issue #1 is free online.) There's a mini-issue with pretty much that exact premise.
@@KyleRayner12
No, but I will immediately consult with the Google gods on this matter.
@Gilberto Silva
I'm gonna be honest, if I made a reference it was by accident
Villain "Stop! Hold on, time!" *speed dials therapist* "...Dr Morgan, I know this is a bad time...yes...It's about that-uhuh, yup. Main good guy took a real good jab at it...Yeah I'll tell him-" *turns to main hero* "My therapist says you owe him 500 bucks for all the sessions you just flushed down the drain...oh and that you're a malignant pox who shouldn't be called a hero...hey Doc mind if I borrow tha-really? Thanks man..."
god that’d be so fucking funny
"It seems our goals have aligned for the third time this month."
"So does that mean I'm a bad hero, or that you're a bad villain?"
"A quandary no doubt."
Underrated comment
**Heinz Doofenshmritz has entered the chat** (probably butchered his last name though)
@@Joshua_Shadow_Manriguez I think you just replaced the r and i near the end
...I feel as though this is quoting something, but I haven't a clue what.
This is actually a really fun concept.... Especially if the villain is actually a double agent, and that's why their goals keep on lining up
For extra fun, the hero doesn't know this. 😁
what I've learned from this video: Dr Doofenshmirtz is the exact opposite of a magnificent bastard, yet also somehow a little bit of one as well.
Doof fails at villainy on even the most fundamental level, and anything else is active charity on Perry's part. That said, yes, I see what you mean.
Dr. Doofenshmirtz never gives up, even when his arch-enemy refuses to try and fold his plan to insult the macaroni and cheese recipe of a whale.
"Wait! My evil plan isn't evil enough for you to foil? Is that it? Really? I just insulted the macaroni and cheese recipe of a whale! What part of that is not evil?!"
@@ryanm.8720 NGL, I never, and I mean NEVER, expected to hear those words strung together like that. Perry was such a mood.
Doof _does_ have a code of some sorts: he rigidly follows the cliches of villainy.
He builds all his traps with a way to escape, all his inators with a self-destruct button, and all his plans with a fail state. He could probably figure out a way to pragmatically kill Perry with little fuss, or keep his plans under wraps enough for Perry not to learn about them until it's too late, but he's more interested in their "nemesis game" than he is in winning, and it's not fun if it's not fair.
"It's so bad it's good" type vibes
Owen: "Actually, Mr. Xanatos, you've never looked more heroic."
Xanatos: "A momentary lapse, I assure you."
God-I loved that line.
@@ea5yliver what's it from?
@ShadowRoseGaming
Gargoyles.
NARRATOR VOICE
*This was not a momentary lapse, he can not assure you.*
@@ea5yliver
Which episode was that?
"Plenty of villains are written with 'kick the dog' moments"
Dio Brando: kicks a dog almost as soon as he's on screen
A man of culture
this trope also fits Valentine
Kira Yoshikage Murders dog and licks a girls hand who he also murders later.
It gets a bit repetitive when EVERY Jojo villain shows how evil they are by killing dogs.
Pretty sure that's what they named it after.
Just remember: “Professionals have standards.”
"Be polite, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
@@syncthedingus1306 "Dad! Dad!... Put mum on the phone."
“Snipin’s a good job, mate!”
@@blitzkriegorsmthn it's challenging work, out of doors.
@@syncthedingus1306 I guarantee you won’t go hungry.
"FOOL! MY THERAPIST AND I ALREADY UNPACKED THAT ISSUE!" The secret weapon needed for villains to finally win action movies is a therapist.
@Tin Watchman That depends, a. do they have other issues to stay villianous for? and b. does the situation allow for them to turn form the path of villiany? hard to go good when the cops get called everywhere you go and vengeance driven heroes hound your steps to off you.
@Tin Watchman Linda Martin says no, Adrian Price says "could be," so I guess it depends on the therapist.
It's actually part of the checklist
Someone read the Evil Overlord's handbook.
That one's right up their with the subversion of, "Your [insert emotionally significant other] wouldn't want this!!!"
"Actually, my mother/teacher/brother/girlfriend actually had a real thing for circuitous world domination - we talked about it a lot."
"Fool! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue!"
I love how this villain has a therapist. Now I'm just imagining a villain sitting down with a therapist talking about their obsession with messing with the protagonist. XD
This reminds me of the final season of Samurai Jack, where Aku the main villain goes and talks with a therapist who is also him.
So if The Sopranos was told from the FBIs perspective?
Joker did just that, you know.
“so what brings you in today?”
“nothing much, just the usual evil schemes”
Mmm
Obsession you say? 😏
Whoever came up with “Charismaniac” deserves a medal.
It really sure does now 🥇🏅🥇
I hope enough people start using Charismaniac that it becomes an actual word
I thought you werent allowed to use Foundation accounts for recreational videos anymore. Stop fucking things up man. Like half of the SCPs could have a "you aren't allowed near them" sticker.
This is a clear breach of Foundation protocols and has a high risk of releasing [REDACTED] from its containment.
Hi, hello, it be me.
"Charismaniacs typically have some kind of code or personal creed to follow."
Professionals have STANDARDS.
be polite
be efficient
plan to kill everyone you meet
I was waiting to see the clip, but it never came :(
I heard the music kick in when I read that
I'm not a crazed gunman, dad I'm an assassin. The difference is that one's a job and the other's mental sickness.
My god sniper is under this troupe
"I want revenge!"
"We have revenge at home."
Absolute genius. 😂
Revenge at home: *Actually resolving the whole thing in court*
@@FortunateSon-mo9zi Or worse: Third party arbitration resulting in monetary compensation and a public apology.
@@Sorain1 Imagine how awkward it must be for a villain like Thanos or Sauron publicly apologizing for the mass murder of millions of people. TBH I would pay to see something like that.
@@FortunateSon-mo9zi Wouldn't that just be the Nuremburg trials?
@@zoro115-s6b Yes, especially in Herman Goring's case.
“This is why some villains tend to monologue their evil plans to make sure we’re up to speed”
*”You sly dog, you got me Monologuing!”*
The Incredibles is so good. A little weird eugenics-ey power-hoarding subtext, but that's mostly Brad Bird's fault.
Chaotic Law
"I have a moral code but only I know it."
this is kinda how i play every dnd character, whoops
Woah ok you didn't need to call me out-
-Geralt of Rivia
Not to be confused with lawful chaotic, which is causing as much chaos as possible while still sticking to the law.
@@animebard1628 Lawful Chaotic is just completely ignoring the spirit of the law. That, or malicious compliance.
I swear, I read the title as "Magnificent Beards" and was like "Huh, I didn't know facial hair was a trope in it of itself"
I believe that troupe should be covered nonetheless.
The mighty power of facial hair should never be underestimated.
Ah, for that you'll want "Growing the Beard". Also a trope related to Jonathan Frakes. ;)
There's like at least four facial hair tropes on that accursed site.
I thought it was magnificent bards
Villain: Literally commits homicide
Audience:
Villain: Hurts an animal
Audience: *No, this isn't how your supposed to play the game!*
Spoiler
(Agatha all along playing in the distance)
High key, I actually find that annoying. Yeah, hurting an animal is bad, but killing a person is still objectively worse. I know it's fiction so there is a bit of removal from the situation, but I've always disliked a character who's hurt a human more than a character who's hurt a dog.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi I agree, I like animals as much as the next guy but killing a human is much more heinous. I can also think of much more situations where killing an animal would be morally justified.
I think the reason audiences react more strongly towards animal deaths because of our societal turn towards caring for the animals we've domesticated. It's a very strong betrayal of trust towards the animals we've come to rely on and care for. That's usually why the animal killed is a dog or cat, or creature that exhibits traits akin to animals humans have domesticated. People also have a much stronger reaction when villains kill children than when they kill adults. Children and animals are seen as more innocent (I'd even argue naive) and incapable of properly fighting back against an adult human. When you pit a grown human against another grown human, the fight seems more equal.
I think that's actually pretty reasonable, because there are complettly understandable reasons for commiting homicide (from a standpoint that ignores most peoples morality obiviously, but it still happend often enough in reality..)
On the other hand when a villain kills/hurts an animal most of the time it's only purpose is to show how evil/sadistic/etc the villain is, which means that there's no real reason for them to actually do it.
In conclusion the first thing is either the villans goal or at least furthers it, while the second only has meta reasons which makes it bad writting.
*Chaotic Lawful: Character follows a set of strict personal guidelines and rules but nobody can figure out what the hell those rules are.*
Maybe I'm a chaotic lawful.
That's just being lawful.
Thats called Calvinball.
DnD alignments are relative to the world not to a person. They are a trait that others can discover (with spells usually) and play around, and they're basically meant to make the DM and other players lives easier if they know how to exploit it, at least that's how I see them.
Unfortunately people like to argue that "lawful good" still applies to personal codes which completely misrepresents the rule.
Do they follow the laws of their society? If so they are lawful, if not, chaotic, if they don't care, neutral.
This makes following your own code very neutral, you won't follow unjust laws as neutral good, but might still care about giving your villain a fair trial out of principle. You might break your friend out of prison but submit to judgement when you're caught.
Alignments are a fun narrative tool to play with if you know what you're doing, but a source of frustration to some parties and DMs when carelessly messed with.
lmao
"...another key quality of the charismaniacs is standards" So.... You could say that professionals have standards?
Omfg Sniper is a magnificent bastard
sniping's a good job, mate
@@dededeletethis9940 chellengin' wourk, outta dours.
@@ourtube1128 and I can guarantee you won't go hungry
@@ValhallaAMV cuz at the end of the day as long as there's two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead.
"Fool! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue!" My new major is now villain psychology.
Seconded
Could b a kip possible villain in making. And given she can be insecure, devastating.
The villain is preparing their evil plan. They have already recruited a skilled assassin, a mad scientist, a hacker, henchmen and a legal team. The last step, the most important, is now to convince the best therapist in the country to help them through their childhood trauma to finally take over the world.
@@ayal92 Bonus points if 'obtain therapist' was someone else's idea, but the villain considers it, and then agrees.
That's basically the roll of Dr. Henry Killinger on Venture Bros. Help villains be the best villains they can be by understanding themselves
I'd love to see Red do the "Villain was Right," "The Villain has a Point," or other troops that boil down to "The Villain has good intentions or even is right, but they're still committing evil acts."
The trope would probably be ‘Justified Villainy’ or something like that.
Cool motive, still murder.
I actually have a variant of this in the works in a scifi story. An individual with seedy yet semi legitimate corporate holdings is funding developing colonies on a number of worlds and is able to out compete or even starve out existing and established economies because of the resources that he can move around. Another consequence of this is that he has enough influence that most government officials. (Because of the logistics of communicating across a galaxy, there are only loose government ties between stars and the actual inter galactic governing structure is a series of sub galactic governments just talking as separate entities). he actually orchestrates the destruction of three four separate colonies and survivors tra e it back to him, with no government body willing to punish him for it or to listen to them. They find and confront him about his actions, but the colonies that he destroyed were under the control of an "inter galactic" cabal. Basically, there is a cabal that controls communication between solar systems and has members of high ranking government officials and several economic concerns across the milky way galaxy (there are three inter galactic conglomerates and they founded this group when expanding into the milky way) who's main concern is to keep control of the region in the hands of those founding members so that they can avoid directly fighting each other though most of the galaxy is oblivious to this. The villain who is right is someone who is aware of this group and wields enough clout to oppose their operations outside of the law and to compete with their economic concerns. This man who destroyed four colonies has been actively trying to supplant this entity and to let legitimate power take over, meaning that when he has succeed, he would dissolve his own corporate interests (or at least remove himself from them) and turn himself in. He was right about an intergalactic conspiracy and was able to fight them on their terms, but at the cost of significant human developments and many innocents killed or displaced.
In one story I'm reading, the protagonists orchestrate a war for the purpose of killing a bunch of people, because for magical reasons, if a bunch of people don't die the world blows up.
@@MorganDade Is it possible to change those magical reasons or do the readers know why they were put in place and who made that magic?
7:44 There’s an episode of Phineas & Ferb where Doofenshmirtz does exactly this. He joins a super villian group, helps them quite a bit, learns that their end goal is to destroy the world, says that’s too far, leaves, sides with the good guys.
Also, how can you take over the entire tri-state area if it no longer exists?
This was my fav episode ngl
important information for people who haven't seen phineas and ferb, the organisation is called Lovemuffin
I take it Lovemuffin stands for League of Very Evil....Momething Usomething Fomething Fomething Isomething Nomething?
@@jordanhunter3375 League Of Villainous Evildoers Maniacally United For Frightening Investments in Naughtiness
dropping this amazing tumblr post here
“Why do people like a character who’s committed war crimes but hate this other character just because they’re annoying” because it’s fiction Susan, and being annoying in fiction is a greater sin than being a supervillain, because it won’t make me want to read about them. It isn’t difficult to understand
-villainsmatter
The Major from Hellsing is a Magnificent Bastard.
The Spear Hero from Rising of the Shield Hero is an unlikable fuck.
So Megamind and Metroman
It doesn't help that some people are A-OK with war crimes if they're being done to people they don't like.
But yeah, an understandable lack of moral discretion with fictional characters is also a factor.
I'd like to add that we've all met annoying people in life, and sometimes that primal force of hate just flows through our veins stronger bc they affect us a lot more personally
"Its not about living a good or bad life. Its about living an interesting life."
Loving "charismaniacs". I'm stealing that.
@@AxxLAfriku how do you have time to leave so many comments?
@@AxxLAfriku I'm concerned that I apparently have a range of similar interests with a bot, and a shit one at that.
We are care-ris-main-e-acts...
We have pay per play contracts...
Sorry I'll see myself out.
@@00Q722 I'm also concerned that the channel has like +30k subscribers with 10-20 second videos involving pinching underwear.
Magnificent Bastard: 6 syllables.
Charismaniac: 5 syllables.
"How did he figure that out?"
"He's a genius, duh."
"How were we supposed to figure that out?"
"It's very important for my ego that you never get a chance."
Along with the comparison to (oddly specified to be) well-written detectives and the use of the trope of The Watson, I'm starting to think it's a dig against Moffat's Sherlock
I call this "The Thrawn."
Thats what i thought too!
@@PrimeofPerfection Considering Thrawn is basically "Sherlock, but as a bad guy", doesn't that make Pellaeon his Watson, though?
It certainly fits the description well.
This part brought me back to thinking about Hbomberguys video on why Sherlock is bad
V: “I know your weaknesses better than anyone, fool.”
H: “A new heating pad?!”
V: “This one is microwave-safe.”
Absolute gold.
"I WANT REVENGE!!!"
"We have revenge at home"
The revenge at home: Voodoo doll.
Revenge at home : Whatever covered John Olivier this week.
@@krasmazov1959 What a coincidence. I do happen to have packaged meat at home...
3 dollar check with "eat shit, Bob" written all over it.
A framed embroidery with the text: Living well is the best revenge
Reminds me of ProZD’s villain who’s actually a good dad sketches
Even so, the first trope I'd pick for him is Even Evil Has Loved Ones.
You mean like Red Death from Venture Bros.?
@@trika91 the what?
@@nuggs942 A villain from season 6 &7 of the Venture Brothers. He’s both a supervillain and a family man.
(Hope that helps)
Jango Fett
"if your villain is emotionally unstable and prone to violent outbursts or rage" did anyone else just picture Kylo Ren throwing a tantrum
MOOOOOOORE!
Yep... First character I thought of actually...
And they wonder why the sequel trilogy was a dumpster fire, with such stellar storytelling and character development like that...😒
@@priscillabrown210 Kylo Ren always has been an impulsive edgy teenager wannabe the next Darth Vador.
Not that the Sequel trilogy was good, as it was basically "throw it all over the board" every movie but it's not inconsistency in character there at least
@@gallalameblook9911
And it's even worse when you learn the character is supposed to be 30 and not just some 22 year old who acts like he's 13.
I actually thought of Azula from atla
Grand Admiral Thrown from the Star Wars novels is a great example of how to do weaknesses for a Magnificent Bastard: He successfully pulls off gambits left and right, but always with some small miscalculations he either brushes off or doesn't even notice. These miscalculations are minor on their own, but in the endgame they all come piling together down on top of his head.
Also, his miscalculations are often based on information that he did not have access to.
Early Thrawn felt like a Mary Sue, but Rebels definitely improved him.
@@Kyl0_ben I think "Rebels" made him less impressive. In the novels he was taking on the New Republic with the remnants of the Empire. In Rebels he's using the Empire in it's prime to hunt down a ragtag group of misfits.
@@TheKersey475 He still comes off as more impressive then everyone else. Every other imperial we see in the show is a power hungry idiot that keeps getting outsmarted by said group of rebels. Thrawn shows up and he's immediately far more respectable then any other villain we've seen, more nuanced. He actually cares about the enemies he fights, he respects them and actually sees them as a people with their own complex history and culture. On top of that he's terrifyingly efficient, he only ever loses cause some force deus ex machina catches him off guard, something he couldn't *ever* expect could reasonably happen.
That's exactly who I was thinking of! I love the writing on him. The newer Thrawn books that give him his origin story or whatever kind of slip into the "Hero of Another Story" territory, but he retains enough ruthlessness and unbreakable commitment to his goals that it doesn't ruin him for the antagonist role.
“It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.”
- Oscar Wilde
Characters*
and spoken like a true self-obsessed artist too
that sounds really harsh, wilde is charming for what it's worth
No that's stupid believe it or not some people do bad things things and other people don't
Wooah that is madness I can't think of anyone not anyone who falls into those categories
He's right you know
I wonder if hitler would be charming or tedious
@@drakep.5857 judging by his still alive following after literal years of censorsgip he must've used charisma as a dump stat
"I want revenge!"
"we have revenge at home."
Best mastermind/minion conversation ever.
Oops 666th like, sorry. 😣
Also in Carmen Sandiego's case, at least in the cartoon: Carmen was ACME's best agent and she turned to villainy specifically to test them and make sure they never became complacent.
The newest one? Cause the new version is really good
I think they’re talking about the original.
@@animeotaku307 oh
A white hat hacker, but villany instead. A white hat villan
Man I love that old cartoon.
Also on a side note, Wasn't the entire world in a computer?
"I want revenge!"
"We have revenge at home."
Alright, ya got me. I laughed.
"Okay, so I burned down your village, but consider: I am VERY sexy" is a personal attack against sephiroth specifically and i will not stand for it
I've never understood why Sephiroth was considered a villain on the same level as other Final Fantasy villains.
@@TheKyrix82 Because he was a crazy guy who wanted to destroy everybody in the world? The other group of _Final Fantasy_ villains merely want to conquer the world, but tree-of-angel was in the kill 'em all camp.
@@boobah5643 Actually no, Kefka beat him to that ages beforehand. And Kuja wasn't willing to stop at just 'the world', but all life in the universe. Sephiroth is really the kid sitting at the grownup's table of the villains, Omnicidal maniacs are kind of FF's calling card, and most of them succeeded to some extent.
@@TheKyrix82 Honestly, it's because of two things: first, he actually killed a party member. That's pretty much unheard of, especially back when 7 came out. Second, he's a hot anime pretty boy who debuted right when video game graphics were starting to get good enough to show it. I agree that he's one of the weaker ff villains, but I understand why he's popular.
@@10001vader Except no. Final Fantasy 2 had so much of the cast die that later versions had a special quest JUST for all the dead people. Final Fantasy 4 had near deaths for almost everyone and one permanent party death against the presumed big bad. 5 had a party member die fighting the final boss. 6 had a party member who COULD die if you didn't wait for him. In fact, I was so used to this that I didn't even blink when Sephiroth got his kill. I was just "Oh, so this game does it too..."
And as for 'hot anime pretty boy', almost every male Final Fantasy villain has also been that. Kefka, Seifer, Golbez outside of his armor, Kuja, Seymour. I mean, it's kind of a thing. And again, those villains pretty much all accomplished something...Kefka literally destroyed the world, Kuja laid waste to every major kingdom on Garnet's world AND destroyed his own, X-Death was at the cusp of victory when he was finally beaten, etc.
Sephiroth is...pretty. That's it. Except even then, he's not 'the prettiest' pretty boy in the series. Mid tier at best.
Xanatos: "This is my first real stab at cliche villainy, how am I doing?"
By and far one of my favorite lines he says in the entire series. Just the right amount of ham in a deadly serious situation.
Everything about Xanatos always seemed so...just on the edge, you know? Like, he's constantly keeping himself in check from doing anything tremendously dumb.
But this? This was just him having a laugh.
His first quote in the series is, by far one of the best. "Pay a man enough, and he'll walk barefoot into hell.
@@nicholasmaddocks7545 It was quoted elsewhere in the comments, but "Revenge is a sucker's game" sums him up perfectly. It's so easy to fall into the payback trap. He just shrugs and moves on, not letting himself be derailed. And that's what makes him simultaneously the most and least dangerous adversary in the series.
Personally what makes me Smile with Xanatos is that he Keeps moving his Goalpost in such a way that he always considers every Situation a win...
Best Example is an Episode where he only Features as Filler for time, and he's not even Part of the Scheme of the Episode... He's Just in his Castle, playing Chess with Fox... and by the end of the Match, Fox actually Wins against him at Chess. And Fox Says something along the Lines of "I'm Sorry Dear, should I have Let you Win? I Know how you Hate to Loose...", and Xanatos Just answers "Oh, no. Because you See my Dear, by you Beating me at this game, I've actually won something far more Precious: A True Equal", Which is Both So Completely Arrogant, and Yet Kinda Romantic when you Remember that he's talking about his Wife...
He Really is the Ultimate Magnificent Bastard.... I mean "charismaniac"...
Xanatos: So now you know my weakness.
Goliath: Only you would regard love as a weakness.
Ah, the Magnificent Bastard. Not to be confused with the Glorious Bastard. The bad guy who saves the protagonists as a final redeeming moment.
So Xanatos and not Spike
Isn't that called Redemption Equals Death?
Not to be confused with the Inglorious Basterd, who kills nazis and permanently scars the survivors
Connor Walters those are my favorite bastards of all.
@@connorwalters9223 You didn't say it right.
An Inglorious Basterd is someone who does one thing, and one thing only:
killing natzis.
I'm just picturing the Charismaniac who became a villain just ends up becoming the one person in a friend group who just nails gift giving every time.
Idea: Magnificent Bastard villian who unnaturally good at improvising. Like on the fly, hero thought they foil their plan but it seemed the villain is unaffected and whipped out a new one.
In reality, the villain is the dm for a party that consistently derailed the campaign and yet they roll on with it.
Rick from Rick and Morty, technically.
Awesome explonation tho
That's Preminger from _Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper_
He had planned taking over the kingdom for 10 years, but during the movie he comes up with a new plan *twice* that still used his original plan as a basis. And they even showed very well how he observed the main characters. I like that he didn't know more than he should, and in terms of information was behind for most of the movie, but through observation and sniffling he found out what really happened.
They showed the game of chess between Preminger and Julian, and a game of poker between Preminger and Erika.
Like an anti-macguyver?
Xanatos Speed Chess is an awesome trope.
"MY THERAPIST AND I ALREADY UNPACKED THAT ISSUE." I felt that.
"We have revenge at home."
"I hate this f*cking family!"
Xanatos is legit a man I want to become: a man whose plans always benefit him no matter the outcome. Xanatos is the epitome of the idea: "if you plan to fail, your plan will never fail."
You mean a Xanatos Gambit? There's a trope page for it.
@@DragonbIaze052Yeah, and it's named after David Xanatos who used those as a trademark tool.
@@angrytheclown801 Yes. I know. This is a video that uses a picture of Xanatos and talks about him. The comment I was replying to mentioned Xanatos by name. Everybody here knows it's named after him.
Best way I heard someone say it was along the lines of: Xanatos doesn’t lose. He either wins or he learns
"So now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love to be a weakness."
Goliath is such a great character, and Xanathos is the best foil to his inherent honor. Gosh, I love Gargoyles.
Dio’s existence has resulted in the death of multiple dogs and he still has a fan base bigger than I’d care to admit.
His name translates to God (I know it's a reference but the point stands).
Because a good dog murderer is hard to come by.
its bc hes hot duh, smh
no but seriously im like 99% sure thats why most of his fanbase (honestly myself included-) like him so much
I forgot about jojos for one blissful second and thought you meant the singer
it's interesting how the author uses "killing the dog" only for those he wants to paint as monsters; killing other people, meh.. even heroes do that sometimes
-I really want Red to cover the "the only sane one" trope cause it's lowkey everywhere and it's great-
Ah - so many Twilight Zone plot points
It's interesting because you need to balance the bliss of finally having a character blessed with common sense who doesn't make you cry "whyyyyy" every five seconds with the slight loss of dramatic risks you get from having characters consistently make stupid decisions.
This is definitely a trope talk I want.
That's really part of the straight man archetype, which is really wide reaching but very interesting to analyse
@@storystimmler so Red vs Blue?
Ah yes, the Sokka of the group
The 90s Carmen Sandiego is in an interesting place regarding weaknesses/invulnerability. She herself is basically untouchable. In one ep, Ivy and Zack manage to mess with her escape plan, but she flashes her backup backup escape plan while escaping via her backup escape plan. In the original games, putting her in jail is the goal; in the 90s cartoon, it's clearly beyond possibility. Easy recipe for a boring invincible villain. And yet, she's not boring, /because/ she approaches it as a game. Her schemes can be foiled, and she'll help that emotional catharsis by complimenting your victory while she flies away scot-free. What could be boring invincibility is reframed into something more like "your chess opponent will walk away from the table unscathed".
“Dog kicking moments”
Dio: *Literally kicks and burns a dog and has pretty much no good qualities besides a nice face*
The fandom: “S I M P”
He is flamboyant thou
It could help that he's also the single most meme-able villain in existence. I never have, nor ever intend to, watch JoJo, but even I know all the Dio memes purely through osmosis.
Regular Villains: Yeah, I hit that woman.
Magnificent bastard characters: (Tommy Wiseau voice) That's not true, that is bullshit! I did not hit her, I did NOT.
@@FortunateSon-mo9zi
Oh hi Mark
@@MrElionor Ah, a fellow man of culture!
Audience: "How were we supposed to figure that out?"
Author: "It's very important to my ego that you never get a chance."
Red summarizing all of Sherlock with background jokes
Did someone say Doctor Who?
Yeah that's right. It's getting controversial up here in the comments section.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi I saw you getting buff in preparation for your new show, when’s it coming out?
Sherlock and Doctor Who? I guess we know a Moffat with a fragile ego (jk, or am I?).
@Tin Watchman But then there is also the super secret homless network, and the boomerang.
@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi Thats why I liked in the classic series, where it was hinted that time lords were also just a little bit psychic, to justify some of the BS.
"Okay, so I burned down your whole village, but consider: I am *VERY* sexy."
LMFAO I died
Morally Gray CONFIRMED
More like Sexyroth
A thing I feel like not enough writers appreciate; "I can't write a character smarter than me!" Yes, you bloody well can. You are the author, you are omnipotent, omniscient, intelligence is about noticing details, connecting things, making insights, understanding concepts and people from limited information - you know more than the character does, you always have more *time* than the character does! Intellect is speed, observation, insight, connection, and understanding. You have more capacity to do that than the character could just by your privileged, even omniscient position as the author.
What I do is I make a plan or thing for a character to figure out and design the situation for them to do that. Kinda like an escape room
Also, intelligence isn't "what can they figure out?", it's also "how fast?"
If it took you a month to figure out how a character gets through a difficult problem, but it only took them a week, they are smarter than you- simply because they came to the same conclusion but faster.
What could be months of brainstorming for you can be seconds of quick thinking on the behalf of the character.
Thank you for this. I think that I needed to hear/read it
The key here is that you have to portray the genius’ thought processes to the audience. This is why Lin-Manuel Miranda said it took him a year just to write the song “My Shot;” to him, Hamilton is just so much smarter than he is, it took a year to create lyrics dense enough to portray his intellect.
My friend came up with a character named Bugnar, an insectoid god in a D&D like setting. He has so many Xanatos Gambits running in the background, that no matter what happens, he is pleased with the outcome. However, the audience never gets to see any of those machinations, so all they see is: [thing happens] -> Bugnar pops up and says, "Bugnar is pleased!"
It is theorized that Bugnar is incapable of feeling displeasure.
I had one of those in a campaign, someone succeeded in a spell to read his mind and found out that his "Plans" were him poking random people in ways (dropped money on the ground where they were going to walk, caused it to rain so that 2 people talked longer, etc.) and then watched them and their kids until they see something neat happen so he'd get to show up to say "You've done well and pleased the Gods" before going away again.
All Hail Bugnar!
I want to meet bugnar and tell him that he's doing a good job
PRAISE BE TO BUGNAR
@@nehpets216 yeah, basically that, except looking like the preying mantis guy from Space Ghost.
12:41 Xanatos: "So now you know my weakness."
Goliath: "Only you would consider love to be a weakness."
I mean, it kind of is. Look at how many romantic tragedies there are. Hell, Anakin Skywalker fell to the dark side because of love. The mistake is thinking weaknesses are a bad thing.
@@jfangm It wasn't "because of love", it was because of selfishness. As soon as it stopped being mutual and he calling the shots himself (ignoring her input), it stopped being love and became selfishness which he was calling "love".
@@JarieSuicune
All love is selfish.
@@jfangm No. Love means that what the person you love wants is more important than what you want.
@@zoro115-s6b
No, it doesn't. In fact, what you described is an abusive relationship.
Is it just me or does the goal driven magnificent bastard actually sound a lot like Batman
Note to self watch entire video before commenting
Everyone learns that lesson at some point lol.
13:28 Oooh, I remember this episode! It's one of my favorites. Harley Quinn nearly got the better of him (something he snidely pointed out to the Joker) and he got out of it by laughing at her. She'd NEVER heard him laugh before--no one had--and she was horrified enough by it to stop what she was doing. Then he manipulated her into calling the Joker and derailed her plan. She was really smart. He was just barely smarter...pudding.
The emotional victory in the third act breakdown is the reason why Azula's defeat (from ATLA) is so satisfying.
Kinda bittersweet really. The girl was 14.
@@peepopopo7140 what was so satisfying about it, is just how well it was written. It was extremely bittersweet, the execution was brilliant. It's incredibly sad because she's 14 and has fallen into this deep pit of manipulation and psychological abuse, that there cannot be another satisfying ending to Azula than her breaking down.
It is more or less bittersweet, because you see how this person who thought she was on top, but was nothing but a pawn to his father, falls apart after years of abusing and being abused, and the look Zuko gives her in the end is magnificent. It says how Azula is being destroyed by something he already overcame, and how they could’ve both walk the same way, but only one of them was willing to change. It is not a happy victory, it is a tragedy. But all of that is satisfying nonetheless.
@@peepopopo7140 In animated series I always forget how young the protagonists often are. Azula always feels like a character in her late teens, early twenties at least. At least to me. But maybe that is just because I subconsciously try to get the main characters closer to my age? Don't know.
the fact it felt like a tragedy rather than a total victory made it even more satisfying
"But the only code *he* seems to be interested in is the Dress Code" hmm, is there enough material for an entire episode of Villainous Haberdashery?
Let's see...
Loki
Q (Star Trek: The Next Generation)
Lex Luthor
Magneto
Azula
A certain character in WandaVision
Yes.
I see what you did there and I'm deliberately not laughing.
@@lewisirwin5363 ... Wait what... (goes back and rereads) oh. Oh no.
Wicked Cool Hats!
Lexington: If you don't know anything, why were you shooting at us?
Xanatos: Do I really need an excuse to have a good time in my own home?
Xanatos is such a great antagonist.
I always loved that line.
I need to watch that show
@@cedartheyeah.justyeah.3967 Yes. Yes you do.
@@cedartheyeah.justyeah.3967 Yes! You really do!
I think that Ian from the first National Treasure film was a good example of a magnificent bastard. He doesn't understand the history as well as the main characters, but you can see him putting it together for himself while his henchmen scratch their heads and wonder.
Like the protagonist Ben says he's dangerous because "he's smart and has almost unlimited resources". We the audience are not usually surprised to see him showing up hot on the heels of the protagonists because we've been seeing clips of him putting things together for himself. Bribing a little kid was straight genius
“not all magnificent bastards are villains”
me: please say batman please say batman please say batman
Red: “like batman”
me: YES
or Tony Stark.
@@selonianth yes
My thoughts instantly went to Lelouch. A more magnificent bastard was never had.
Batman is a Magnificent Bastard because... say it with me, folks....he´s Batman.
@@kuramasfoxyrose Yes
clicked for xanatos.
"only you would consider love a weakness." and the immediate face change. goliath rattled him good and he knew it and hated it.
fuck, gargoyles was such a good show, such a huge part of my childhood. miss it so much
It’s on Disney Plus and you could watch the entire thing in under a month easily.
@@grif0716 i've re-watched it maybe... 5 times? in the last year. 2020 needed the charismaniac that is david xanatos
It’s on Disney +
I expect Gargoyles to be Red's next AtLA in its ubiquity.
@@thetimebinder agreed i rewatched it and realized i liked Xanatos more than i ever realized as a kid.
Anyone else want to see red talk about the "ancient tech is the best tech" trope because it is in nearly EVERYTHING. Like the guardians in botw, magical artifacts in everything fantasy, the covenant and crystal skull in Indiana Jones, even in recent history like prototype weapons developed in ww2 that are extremely powerful yet never seen the front lines.
(edit)spelling errors
(edit 2 electric boogaloo) I am counting magic as tech since in most fantasy stories magic is what they use instead of conventional technology.
Would be funny to write a short story on this premise.
The heroes are confronted with a horrible and ancient evil and go to great lengths to find a mythical ancient weapon - only to find out it is a bit of a joke and has long been taken over by contemporary technology.
They then proceed to shoot Voldemort with machine guns.
@@johannageisel5390 I'd read that. No, wait... I'll write that!
@@watchermagic5325 give us an update if you do!
@@watchermagic5325 Please share it with us - I want to read it too!
Stroheim from Jojo because YOU UTTER FOOL GERMAN SCIENCE IS THE GREATEST IN THE WORLD!
My favorite Xanatos moment is when he proves he is a self made mad
He found the rare coin, sent it to himself from the past and told himself everything he would need to do
Such a charismaniac
Red: third act break down, charismaniac
Me: AZULA
Darn, Azula should have been mentioned during the 3rd part breakdown considering Mai and Ty Lee betrayed her, then she lost her sanity, Katara and Zuko kicked her ass then finally threw her into an insane asylum while Ozai get energybended and permanently locked up in prison at the series very ending.
Also Light Yagami
I kept thinking of ways in which Azula fits the criteria for Magnificent Bastard listed here. The fact she wasn't mentioned at all is a crime.
@@emiljosefsson9149 I think Avatar at this point just does everything right, if it isn't mentioned exclusively for something it *didn't* do, then it's better just to assume it portrays the trope exactly.
@@emiljosefsson9149 I don’t really see her fitting this archetype. I mean, what was her code or what were her goals? Don’t get me wrong, she was a great villain, but I never saw her as “magnificent”.
"Good morning, doctor. I'd like to discuss a spot of drama that I encountered last week, if I may?"
"Mrph-mrr-mrph"
"Why thank you. It all began with ... my apologies, doctor, where is my mind today? Mister Trace, please remove the good doctor's gag if you would?"
Grosse Pointe Blank - Alan Arkin is the doctor, who Cusack's assassin character occasionally breaks into his office for therapy sessions...
"I know your weaknesses better than anyone, fool."
"A new heating pad?!"
"This one is microwave-safe."
I'm imagining a reptilian and/or cold-blooded hero now who gets gifted a heating pad/sunlamp by the antagonist.
the idea of a villain/antagonist who buys nice shit for the hero every so often to the point where the hero is just like "oh!!! nice thanks :D" is hilarious ngl
@@thesunwillneverset Smol lizarb boi
@@thesunwillneverset or maybe it's for all the ass kicking they get, making it a stealth burn.
Being manipulative and being considerate, require the same knowledge and skill set.
I think we love them because they are a power fantasy of self-control, self-actualization and the unwavering pursuit of goals despite resistance, criticism or even societal constraints. They are true to themselves and don't care what people think in a way that it's wrong, but feels so good and liberating.
"There's the 90s version of Carmen San Diego"
Me, who never watches any show of that series and just saw some persons talking aout it: Wait, Carmen San Diego is the vilain?!
in the 90s she's the villain. In the recent adaptation she's the protagonist. She's always a thief with a complicated relationship to cops.
Well she's literally the female version of lupin the 3rd
Both are thieves
@samraiz shoaib ...I think it's the game show I keep thinking of whenever I read 'Where in the world is Carmen San Diego?'
@samraiz shoaib never realized it was an actual show. Always thought it was a gameshow/game in general. XD
Originally, it was a computer game. Which ended up being the first of a series of computer games.
Then that was made into the premise of the quiz show...
... and _then_ a goahead animated cartoon, clips shown during this video.
... And more recently, the Netflix series, which switched the terms around enough that Carmen's _opposing_ the villains and not the main antagonist the heroes are trying to catch.
This also feels like “how to play an evil character in D&D”. Be so honor or code heavy you don’t be evil to the party, or be so driven towards their goal that the party isn’t their concern. Add in that they should probably enjoy the company of the party, you’ve done it! Another option is just play the charismatic rude boi and point it at the opponents instead of fellow players.
Or make it that they have a sense of loyalty to a member/s of the party so they're evil is kept in check by not wanting to piss of their good aligned friends, peer pressure isn't always a bad thing.
Indeed, Regill from Pathfinder:Wrath of the righteous(where you lead a crusade against demons invading the world) is a really good example of this. He belongs to the Hellknights organization that basically prioritizes law and order over practically anything else. The first time you see him, he kills his own wounded soldiers to prevent them from being captured, as well as to prevent them to slow the rest down. He also rewards the soldier that ran to get your character to aid him with double pay that month....as well as 100 lashes for abandoning his post to do so.
Regill is ruthless, callous and does little to hide his disdain of those he considers weak or foolish. But he is calm and composed, supremely principled in his approach, As well as surprisingly practical at times. His goal is to end the demonic invasion, and he doesen´t flinch from doing things at his own cost as well as others if it means victory.
I made an evil characters whos goals align with the party, because the evil guy that I work for disliked the evil guy we were fighting.
Can you make a chaotic evil character who has a code?
@@badconnection4383
Yes. The lawful/chaotic scale is informed by how your character conforms to the standards and expectations of society at large; personal codes have no effect on it for the most part.
As much as I love Magnificent Bastards, I think my favorite type of villain is the intelligent monster. Best example being Bill Cypher: an omnipotent, evil being of chaos whose sole goal is to cause discord and have fun doing it.
Yes Bill Cipher is exactly one of the best villains in animated shows because of his charm and quirks, but he is far too sadistic and evil to be MB and his clear goal mentioned above is like he's gonna kill someone now for the heck of it, he also loses his composure at the verge of his defeat.
I feel like MBs exist in a spectrum between Shen and Bill Cipher.
Yes! Same! I'm actually writing a story right now with this type of villain! :D
"an omnipotent, evil being of chaos"
So used to the beings of chaos being the good guys and the beings of order being the bad guys or "lawful neutral antagonists" that I was shortly confused. Well I did hear that Gravity Falls is a series with a lot of originality.
I simply like villains like night feeder from primal where the villain just seems unstoppable, it’s insane and simply just enjoys killing for sport as well as have something like amazing speeds and also have some type of intelligence. Those villains scare me
I love her mini-cartoons. 10:00
Hero: raises 'need for validation' sign
Magnificent Bastard: FOOL! My therapist and I already unpacked that issue!
Hero: Gasp!
As soon as I saw that title, I immediately thought of “You magnificent bastard, I read your book!”
What book
@@thomaseasley2938 it’s a reference to the movie Pattron. Basically, Pattron believes in one scene he’s fighting Rommel, and he’s laughing because he read Rommel’s book on warfare tactics.
This is actually the source of the term, as far as I know.
@@spookyghostwriter3110 That would be Patton, with out the r.
"...kick the dog moment..."
Ah, so basically, The Dio Brando Introduction.
I'm watching JoJo's and I love how the show is so incredibly over-the-top that Dio got 2 kick the dog moments
@@coyraig8332 One of which was him literally kicking a dog
@@LordVader1094 Yup
@@LordVader1094 and iirc the other was him burning the dog alive
Except Dio is just a full on villain with no redeeming qualities
Normal villains have "Kick-the-Dog" moments.
Charismaniacs have "Pet-the-Dog" moments.
Edit: Why the hell does this have 2 thousand likes. All I did was just kinda put one of her drawings into words.
Like Kilgrave from Jessica Jones when he used his powers for the ultimate good and made a nosy neighbor admit that she was just talking nonsense that she knew about the accident to sound important, and she herself would like to slap anyone who said such a horrible thing.
(After that he made her explode, but still) I love him for that.
@@יעלוייסברג I don't actually watch Jessica Jones. Sorry.
zuko when he saves his helmsman and then tells him to get out of danger before continuing the chase on the avatar
@@blackbed5108 zuko is not a villain.
@@יעלוייסברג They start out a villain though- Well no, they start out an antagonist, but you get my point. Stopping to save someone instead of chase the avatar isn't Zuko-like at that point
I have one of these in my D&D 5e game, he's a vampire named Lazarus who's almost as old as the world who because undead basically to spite the god of death and so he'll live long enough to bring her back. His immortality has him losing touch with reality over time, his ultimate motivation is to bring his wife back, he isn't the main bad guy of the game, but he is kind of an anti-villain, he's clearly evil, but he helps the Protagonists from time to time if they're willing to do something for him. He's insanely smart, and knows most magical lore and history because he was there, but he isn't omniscient in anyway. He's been blindsided by other villains before, but just always has contingencies. He could easily become the main villain when they eventually look into his history, but that could be an entirely new story in itself.
Likeable villains are my favourite type of villain. Not because they're redeemable and shit, but just because they're so cool that they undeniably shine out the protagonist
I dont think I share that sentiment. It often hapen that I like the villain but still like the protagonists more.
That is why villains (antagonists) need to be more humane in order to not only become three-dimensional, but also more important than protagonists
A hero is only as great as the trials he or she overcomes. Apollo Creed was the greatest of all trials, because he is not some punk, he not some soulless monster, he is a true Champion, a real warrior ... the most worthy foe ... who then later becomes the heroes best friend and mentor. Truly a great character.
@@rayanrohel7501 why?
@@anna-flora999 Every story needs a complex villain because without them, heroes cannot shine, villains are the sources of conflict that keeps the plot moving forward. In fact, villains are the heroes of their stories, which means that when the world is looked at their perspective instead of just plain bad.
"Nobody knows my only weakness"
Yeah, I'm gonna need that on a shirt...
The back may have to be the the title of the video here, but in a color that almost matches the fabric so it'll force those who actually notice their may be writing to strain their eyes... It'll fit the profile a bit... Maybe...
@@7DdlySns713 MAGNIFICENT
@@lesley7615 😁👍🏻
Same
On the back has words that are the exact color of the shirt, so it can only be seen when wet, which says “any kind of physical labor”
"The kick the dog technique" Dio took this a bit TOO literally
Then he incinerated the dog sometime after...
And then he punched a cat.
*kill the dog technique
@@blindbeholder9713 I do not remember the cat bit
LMAO i also thought of him. he's got so much style i consider him a magnificent bastard despite all the. well. you know what he's like
Lex Luthor (especially in animated flavors) fits this nicely- generally portraying himself as a Type-II, but actually being a Type-I.
I know, right?
Personally I like the charismaniacs that force the no violence hero to consider violence.
That's why I kinda don't like the finale of avatar the last airbender because it let's ang retain this black and white thinking without understanding where the line is. Hell every known avatar admits that sometimes? You do have to kill someone.
Plus the energy bending just comes out of left field of asspull. When did they ever talk about that? The four nations learned from the moon, the badgers, the dragons, and the flying bisian. And no, legand of Korea doesn't get a pass for explaining it after the fact
@@iceluvndiva21 He learned from the Lion Turtle
Legato Bluesummers would like to know your location.
@@Imsexysryurnot spirit bending was an asspull because nickelodeon couldn't have aang purposefully kill someone. While it is the right thing to do to kill firebending hitler, it is not something you should teach children watching the show.
@@iceluvndiva21 i have no problem with him coming up with a way to stop ozai without killing him, but yeah agreed the way its done is a asspull. Even though it was still cool.
"Pay a man enough, and he'll walk barefoot through Hell."
"It's my first stab at cliche villainy. How am I doing?"
Xanatos was awesome.
"It's alive... ALIIIIIVE!!!!!!
I have ALWAYS wanted to say that."
@@wppb50 You magnificant bastard!!! You beat me to it!!
@@wppb50 Hey, I was gonna say that.
@@wppb50 "Revenge is a Sucker's game"
Xanatose and Macbeth were both great! That's what I love about Gargoyles. Most of the villains are written really well
Red: The third-act breakdown is when we see the supervillain properly crack and actually lose their temper
Me:azula azula azula azula azula azula
She should have been mentioned!
She lost more than just her temper
@@lania2246 Her hair! 😱😩
And don't you forget, AZULAAA!!
Darn, Azula should have been mentioned during the 3rd part breakdown considering Mai and Ty Lee betrayed her, then she lost her sanity, Katara and Zuko kicked her ass then finally threw her into an insane asylum while Ozai get energybended and permanently locked up in prison at the series very ending.
This is why the Ace Attorney series has its famous breakdowns - to give you that cathartic sense of victory after a long battle of wits.
"they have kick the dog moment"
Me, starting directly at Dio Brando: if only he just kicked the dog
why did every villain need to get introduced via dog-murder for 3 seasons....
just, why...?
@@ritzexists2201 except for Kars, he was extremely pro dog life
@@jazzycornflakes6581 I mean, say what you like about Kars, but that Pillar Man saved puppies and fought the Nazis.
@@dustincompton992 to bad he then reavled that he cheeted in the fight with Lisa Lisa and only cared about becoming the ultimate lifeform that magnifcant evil Bastard
Don't forget the sexual assault
"excuse me, my father-" "it's a snake" is LITERALLY the plot of some old detective show episode, i think it was sherlock
That sounds like "The Adventure of the Speckled Band"
@@lolalemonite1774 Yep. I remember reading that one when I was a kid. Sherlock Holmes kinda set a high bar for mystery stories for me, TBH.
Yes, that's a Sherlock Holmes story. I don't know if it was adapted to the BBC show Sherlock, but if it was that's _probably_ how the episode would have gone. Then they would have spent the rest of the runtime revealing empty mystery boxes, queerbaiting, and talking about Moriarty or whatever I don't know.
@@natesmodelsdoodles5403 Well, Holmes was kind of the first fictional detective in the modern sense and a lot who've followed take after him.
BBC's Sherlock: "It's a boomerang"
My favourite Magnificent Villainous Bastard is Thrawn. He even takes his death well.
He's stabbed and all he says is 'But it was so beautifully done'.
Let's see. Thrawn ...
1. Is charismatic.
2. Is intelligent.
3. Has standards.
4. Has a goal.
Yep, 4 out of 4!
Huh, I was wondering about that.
Is this his scene in Rebels? I haven't read the books in forever or watched that, so if it is... Boy have I got news for you!
@@lukeroberson2115 It's from the books in the Legends Timeline, where Thrawn first appeared, not the new Disney Canon. I know he isn't dead in the new Canon but if they do kill him at some point I want his end to be as poignant as his Legends death.
This. Love Thrawn. He's only really undone by stuff that he has no way of foreseeing. The fact that the Noghri were loyal to someone other than him in the books (because, at least early on in the Legends EU, the idea that Vader was Luke and Leia's father wasn't generally known), and the space whales in Rebels. That, and in Legends he was hesitant to discard a potential resource, even when said resource is more trouble than its worth (if he had killed Ferrier in DFR, or C'Both midway through TLC, things would have gone VERY different).
I'm LOVING how you showed the Pride and Kimblee Clip to display the conflict of a Goal-Oriented character and a Code-Oriented character. I'd subscribe twice if I could.
"There is nothing less cool than someone trying to convince you they are cool."
Me: Uh-oh
it's the DMC Dante vs DmC Donte question right there:
Donte smokes, cusses, and acts like an ass throughout his one game
Dante wears ridiculous clothes, lives off a diet of pizza and strawberry sundaes, and occasionally breaks into Shakespearean prose
This describes Thanos. Thanos pancaked due to the writers trying too hard to make him a sympathetic villain.
@@GooBootheWarrior I think what they were going for was a villain who was really only in it for power and to kill people for fun, but who'd tricked himself into thinking he was doing it for selfless reasons. But it kinda fell flat because no one ever called him out on it.
@@zoro115-s6b fell flat cause no one called him? wasn't it literally Gamora's arc in infinity war?
although she also did fall flat
@@matheussanthiago9685 she called him nuts, but she never directly pointed out how dumb his entire premise was.
You spent three fifths of the vid using the word “Charismaniac” every 15th second? Red, you magnificent bastard.
One might even call her a Charismaniac.
I didn't realize this was a sad occasion
I like how azula from avatar, is constantly refered to as one of the best villains in animation and fits the magbast really well but it falls apart at the whole "press here for tantrum" bit. I feel like it would've been easy for the gang to fuck up her plans a little and mock her and she'd have the third act breakdown super early. That said, our protagonists aren't the sharpest shed in the bright box and in early avatar, she was always a step ahead simply because they didn't know what to expect. Case and point, azula is a great villain and avatar is amazing so watch it
It wasn't exactly a push the Tantrum button moment because there were some build-up and losing the Agni Kai was just the final straw
Edit: I agree that Azula is an amazing villain
Azula isn't a Magnificent Bastard, though she has some traits.. she fails in the big Picture..
MB are well aware of his/her weaknesses and work to counter them.
MB manipulate through sheer charisma and Batman's Gambit stuff.. Azula manipulates mainly through intimidation and fear, she does that to her close ones, and everybody under her orders.. She only tries to manipulate using charisma and mind games to those she doesn't have power over (Like her Grandfather, uncle, etc)
People working for a Magnificent bastard, not only admire, respect and fear their leader.. but also trust him/her..
People under the command of Azula, mostly respect and fear her...
A Magnificent bastard, never loses his/her cool, when losing... Azula OTOH..
@@robertoc2105 so very much this. Azula is not a magnificent bastard by any stretch, because she completely fails at the "taking a setback in stride" part.
@@Ilyak1986 Agreeing with this whole thread, just wanted to add that Azula is basically still a child (think she's supposed to be 14?),she feels like a charismaniac-to-be to me
Just started watching Avatar. So far I'm loving it. :>
Tbh, Thrawn just feels like what happens when a villain is given the heroes' Plot Armor.
I dunno, getting stabbed because you're big brain made three wrong conclusions doesn't seem very plot-armory.
New Thrawn... yeah, we're still in the second act of his stuff, so we have yet to see.
We're the Charismaniacs!
We have plots and plans!
And we're gonna hijack your hero and put him on our tracks-
-'cos we're the Charismaniacs!
Join the mastermind
Not baaaad not baaaad. XD
Azula in atla season 3 is a great example of a Magnificent Bastard third act breakdown- you watch as this persona she's created of the utterly cool and confident warrior princess who almost singlehandedly conquered the Earth Kingdom falls away to reveal a teenager who's been utterly broken by the weight of expectations and the abandonment of the people close to her
And the thing is, she still counts as an MB because she bounces back in the comics!
Honestly, I also find her immensely sympathetic despite her being firmly evil, since the character who manipulated _her_ the most is Ozai, her own father, and a fascist tyrant who uses her throughout the show as a killing machine, leaving her in the dust near the very end of the show to commit genocide on the earth kingdom and triggering the breakdown in the first place.
She also stands out because, for these reasons, her breakdown is less satisfying and more _genuinely tragic_ .
Gargoyles is the best 90s show and everyone needs to watch it. It’s one of the few 90s show I can watch without cringing
Yeah, its great!
I started watching the show after I finished this video. The first thought that popped into my head at the end of episode one was, "Wow. Disney actually made this?!"
Oh I love it so much 😊
There’s a petition to bring back the show, and it’ll have the original creator and voice actors!
As a child, I couldn't get past the art style (I'm gen z; older side but still). I might try to revisit it some time soon.
Alucard is the perfect example of this archetype. Spent 700 years murdering millions of people, got his ass kicked by a human who couldn't kill him, and pledged his undying loyalty to that human's bloodline.
"Revenge, as they say, is a sucker's game."
And a really good example of the "Third act meltdown" has to be Professor Ratigan in "The Great Mouse Detective" - throughout the movie he's affably evil and overtly polite while maintaining his air of menace (ESPECIALLY when his berserk button of being called a Rat is pushed), but once he sees his greatest scheme thwarted by Basil, he goes full-on feral rat mode, and it is *terrifying* to see him give up all pretense of civility (literally, as his dapper suit gets torn to shreds) in his now single-minded focus to just *kill* his most hated enemy.
Loved The Great Mouse Detective. And not to mention, they got the whole “Shows Deductive Reasoning/Intelligence” thing right. I really think that it’s underrated, (Or just not talked about) so it was really nice for that movie to be an example in this Trope Talk.
As a kid, the instant they got to Big Ben, I was hiding behind the couch because feral Ratigan terrified me. I wouldn’t come back out until after Basil was safe.
And Vincent Price never stops voicing him.
@@1krani I know and I loved it
3:36 I really wished Red illustrated herself as an author slipping an answer sheet into the charismaniac's pocket and everyone else chiming in "I saw that!". Represents the hand of the author no longer being invisible
Red: "His no killing rule is Iron Clad..."
Zack Snyder: "I will ignore that."
@@krasmazov1959 Snyder never did Bane though? That was Nolan.
Believe it or not, that change to Batman, The Whole “Marking Criminals to Die in Prison” was ripped off of Moon Knight. So that decision was not only stupid, it wasn’t even original. 🙄
Gotta get them guns in, bro
That one time where he hangs a guy from the batmobile will also ignore that.
Don't forget Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel. Despite you know, him also having a no kill rule.
"Okay, so I burned down your entire village, but consider: I am *very* sexy"
Practically every main JJBA villain + La Squadra: * nervous sweating *
“Nobody knows my only weakness” and “fool! My therapist and I already worked on that issue” are so good T-Shirts
I think there's one line that *perfectly* sums up Hans Gruber, after being called a 'common thief':
"I am an *exceptional* thief, Mrs McClane, and since I'm moving up to kidnapping, you should be more polite."
It's quite awesome, because not only do we see a glimpse at one his main traits, his ego, we also get a brilliant 3rd act breakdown (just being called a petty thief *really* gets under his skin) as we also see that this very ego has been shattered by john McClane's actions.
Grand Admiral Thrawn from the "Thrawn Trilogy" is another good one. "it was so artistically done."
Thrawn from "Rebels" is even better.
@@jfangm Thrawn in Rebels is good, but Zahn's original writing for him was even better.
@@artsman412 Having listened to the audiobooks of the trilogy (as well as the "duology" that was a follow-up afterward), Yeah, Zahn's original writing was top-tier stuff. The fact his second novel trilogy was constrained by the Disney EU cramped his style just a bit.
Although sometimes with the art thing he could kind of feel a little overpowered and I adore the thrawn trilogy and just mainly the bit on obra ski but palleon would also fit pretty well but he’s more of a sympathetic villain.
@@Linki8uu Yeah, but he has losses in the Thrawn Trilogy, showing he's not overpowered. Hell, he loses his big battle at the end of book one!
My favorite slide has to be the "I want revenge!" "We have revenge at home."