Rear Suspension Overview Part 2 - Pinion Angle
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Part 2 in our series of tutorial videos that explain how to set up your rear suspension covers Pinion Angle.
See a complete listing of videos in this series below.
Rear Suspension Series:
Part 1 - Rear End Alignment
Part 2 - Pinion Angle
Part 3 - Pre-Load
Part 4 - Anti-Roll Bar
Part 5 - Ride Height
Part 6 - Basic 4-Link Settings
The information contained in this video is based on the opinion of Tim McAmis and his 30+ years in the motorsport and manufacturing industries. Any action you take based upon the content provided shall be done at your own risk. TMRC and its affiliates are not liable for any losses and/or damages in connection with the use of this information.
Good info but you don't explain why. What are we trying to achieve by moving the pinion up or down? Does this determine the moment in which the pinion starts to climb the ring gear during acceleration like a point of leverage?
Yeah I love Tim and these videos but there is so much unaddressed and wrong with this. He also is measuring the pinion angle but then calculating the operating angle, of the driveshaft instead, which are two different things entirely. Yes, they affect eachother. But nowhere is this mentioned or addressed as to how they correlate and why they affect eachother. The pinion angle could be 8 degrees and the tailshaft will be in the same spot so it's pointless to leave the operating angle unaddressed as to what you're actually measuring - which is the uni's not even the pinion technically at all.
Hank u sir ,very informative, excellent tool demo. Please keep up the great teaching
I agree. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion and the crankshaft / trans output shaft.
Dave Muller
Agreed. But, since these are full tube chassis race cars, they probably set the engine/trans angle so it was perfectly in line with the pinion.
Don't we want to set pinion angle relative to the engine/crankshaft/transmission output shaft so the driveshaft U-joints stay in phase?
I love your videos! Putting a new rearend in an S10 now. I have leaf springs, so I was planning on starting -3 deg relative to the rear seal angle of the transmission. Thanks for the video lessons and clear explanations!
Yup I'd agree; the pinion angle is only import with regard to getting it parallel to the gear box output shaft. Certainly worth checking for road cars where noise is important, not so sure about competition Cars?
Nope. The pinion angle is the most critical angle of any driveshaft system. Otherwise you'll tear the yoke clean out of the car at worst, or at the least produce vibrations and heavily accelerated wear. Generally you can't change the front angle - it is as designed or built into the car. You can however change the rear angle via the pinion. You NEED some amount of angle. The whole 'lineup method' is great on paper, but almost no car anywhere - street or race - is designed in that manner that a truck or heavy vehicle is with in-line parallel shafts. And to set a dead straight zero pinion shaft or build one completely inline, makes the tailshaft useless.
Hey Tim I was told to place the angle finder up against the outer face of the pinion support, (makes it 90 deg. to the pinion) Then using the reference of 12 and 6 o'clock as your true horizontal you subtract one from the other and the difference is your pinion angle. But that is only to the ground and not the drive shaft. Also when aligning the drive shaft they should cancel each other out , so say -2 on the pinion should translate into +2 on the transmission. Any thoughts..?
You remarked that pinion angle will vary according to who ever sets it up. You then said it can be whatever you're comfortable with. I was under the impression that there are specific parameters and specs you have to stay within, and that the closer the opposing angles are to being the same, the more effective the harmonic cancellation. What conditions would make one deviate from that approach?
He said the exact parameters you want to stay within. The difference is the angle of pinion under power. A negative 1.5 pinion angle as shown here, will not stay negative 1.5. It will zero or go positive slightly under power as the diff twists itself upwards, which is why 'most' prefer a little negative - but not always. Lot of other factors including power, tyres, diff mounting and bushes or bearings etc as to how much it will twist under power and how much angle to add static.
Excellent video!
Mr Tim do you sell catalogs so I have one floating around in my shop A lot,of time it's easier for me to grab a catalog eager than to fumble through a website looking for what I need!! Old habits are hard to break! Thank you in advance, Fred and Kurt's fab shop Smithfield NC 27577.
Tim IS the man.
How straight should the engine/trans center line be to the pinion cl.left to right???
Could you please explain what any of this means? Why is it a big deal what pinion angle you've got?
How much is that tool
You seem like a smart guy, but you measured the driveshaft with the angle finder on the weld. Pinion angle is just that. Pinion angle. Drive shaft has nothing to do with it. You can angle the pinion down or up as you choose for your application. For everyday driving 3 ° up is good, so long as engine/trans is 3° down. Drag only cars are a different story, depending on suspension type and engine mounting.
So you never showed which bar to turn to adjust the pinion angle??
That's not how you set it that's just how you check the angle before or after you set it
You just make it confusing trying to sell your tool,
I know your very knowledgeable
If i was to ask what my pinion angle should be wouldnt the answer you would be giving is the actual “pinion “angle spec
Arent you actually checking the “working angle “
Nice tool..the manufacturer could've made it magnetic though..
No, that's not how to "set" the pinion angle. That's how to "check" the pinion angle. How do you CHANGE the pinion angle?
He said he said he sets about half degree... that car he's working one and a half degree... none of these people on here are going to give you the true winning number that's just racing people that take years to learn a winning combination don't give that shit out for free
What ride height do you recommend from center of the axle to center of the rear cross member? Vertically. Also should the axle be symmetrical vertically and horizontaly to the rear cross member? New to setup. Thanks for the help. Very nice video.
Crank angle?
Usually around 2 degrees and 10" crank centerline off the racing surface.
Up or dwn? Neg or pos?
Perhaps it varies from what the particular car is used for, but I was always told that 3* negative is the magic number for proper pinion angle.
Absolutely not. First, the pinion angle (let's say that it is 2 degrees negative) then the tranny angle needs to be equal, but opposite (2 degrees positive)
Then, depending on what type of rear suspension you have, you take into consideration the amount of pinion rise you get when you stab the throttle.
This next part is for serious racers only;
They want all angles to be 0.0 while under the most power and flex, to go the fastest.
With 4 link and ladder bar, you probably want between 0.5 and 1 degree negative angle on the pinion. This is so that when the motor tourques the driveshaft and the axle, and the pinion climbs the ring gear, it flexes to 0 degrees on all u-joints. On a leaf spring car wants around 4 or 5 degrees negative on the pinion, because of "spring wrap".
You want all angles to be 0, at full throttle, max twist. This is for hard core racing for max speed.
For the street, we want max u-joint life. So, if your tranny/driveshaft u-joint is 5 degrees negative, (like my car is), then you also want the pinion angle to be 5 degrees "positive" (equal but opposite).... At ride height.
My tranny angle is 5 degrees negative (can't adjust it any further, my car is lowered with big tires in the back), so I must get 5 degrees positive out of the pinion. I can only get it to 4.2 degrees positive, but that's close enough. I have ladder bars so when it flexes, it might be closer to 5 degrees positive (a good thing).
5 degrees negative or positive on any u-joint is excessive (I can't help it). That almost the max limit for them.
For the street, ride height u-joint angles should be between 1 and 3 degrees (equal but opposite) for best wear characteristics, and the angles should never be 0 degrees on the street (wears out quickly), while highway driving. Many considerations must be addressed when picking "pinion angle". Hope that helps.
@@jakefriesenjake Thanks! I appreciate the info. So to summarize, would that be 10* apart parallel?
@@tabcobra no, I don't think so. My car is 5 up front, and around 5 on the pinion.
If my engine and tranny centerline was straight or parallel with the ground, then the driveshaft is pointing up, from the ground 5 degrees. Then, the pinion is then pointed back straight, like the engine is. The engine and pinion centerline are on the same plane.
My actual engine is pointed down by 2 degrees, driveshaft is pointed up 3 degrees (5 degrees total) and then the pinion is pointed up (u-joint side is higher) by 1.2 degrees, (total of 4.2 degrees). Makes a z type of shape
Wrong... the pinion and output shaft of the trans Must be parallel to each other.. and the drive shaft is what it is.
Who are you ?
Would have been alot easier to replicate had you performed it with a regular angle finder.. 99% of people dont own a smart level like that....
You goddamn if you don't have one of them protractors you probably aren't building the car. That's literally the first thing you buy man harbor freight has manual & digital one's
I wish Tim was my next door neighbor..
Screw your fancy $3,000 protractor tim... 😂 I'd love to review one for you for free tho- maybe in a big ass box full of Styrofoam peanuts 🥜
Give every man the money to do it and they'll beat you it all comes back to him big as your wallet
he is not tim.. hes really dana carvey