Yup! I can see the wobble. That axle is bent. Years I ago I was gonna replace my stock 10-bolt 8.2 with a aftermarket 12-bolt rear-end, but I changed my mind because I do not drag race at the track. I installed a eaton posi with 3.36 gears and left the stock axles. The rear end performs flawless. No noise, no clunking, and floats down the highway smooth. I hope that you can figure out your issue 🙂
I'm fighting a vibration issue in my 67 Mustang. Driv8ng me up a wall trying to figure it out. Thanks for saying what ap you used to check your angles. I down loaded it. Will check mine tomorrow.
Wow this is disturbing to see, I bought a Moser almost 9 months ago but have not driven the car yet........I was waiting for other parts to come in, I should be on the road soon ......I hope I don't have this problem........will be following to see what happens, good luck with your fix.
I"m 64 years old and been around hot rods and drag racing most of my life. Ran a 5 second drag bike that I spent untold gobs of money on. I finally figured it out. You will never cruze the miracle mile.... stop spending all that money and time building cars to empress people. Most people now a days dont even notice a muscle car drive by them. Save that cash up for when you get old. Your gonna need it some day if things go south and you cant work any more or get put out of a job .
This video is old now but, I just wanted to say that the howling is a direct result of changing upper and or lower control arms from rubber bushings to poly or spherical (which are incredibly louder than poly). I myself removed the original UCA’s and LCA’s on my Mustang (factory rubber bushings) and also removed the diff housing bushings (also rubber) and changed it all out with spherical parts from BMR. On the first test drive after the install of the aforementioned parts, at around 15 mph I thought I blew my diff. I had a loud harmonic howling coming from the rear of the car which resonated throughout the body of the interior. I was confused.. The 2nd thing I noticed was metal on metal clunking when turning.. After parking the car and jumping on several forums I learned something. And well, guess what? This is the exact nature of spherical bushings. Anytime you replace a rubber part in the drivetrain with a metal counterpart (or even poly) you introduce a tremendous amount of noise and resonance into the body of the car. Take it from me, there’s a give and take with every modification. However you have to find YOUR happy medium and that all is subjective to the individual. I wanted to launch and hook better (which I do with spherical bushings) but it came at the cost of a quiet ride with no howling. Happy modding.
@@SS454LS6 I put in a 12 bolt axle housing from an early monte in my 67 Camaro. I was going 4-link w/ mini tub anyway so I started from scratch. Welded on the big ford bearing kits after narrowing for the mini tub. Turned out pretty well.
I'm not sure where you are with your Vibrations now ? You sure spent sometime with the video ..... I feel YOUR PAIN !!! ill been thou all of it .... and still not completely gone.... /// I also has a 70 SS LS 6 in the 70's no Vibrations problems ,,, Did you say that you were getting whining noise ?? ( FYI ) many the gears are not set up correctly OR if the gears are not OEM gears they whin even if they are set-up perfect because they are not cut correctly ...
Check if the drive shaft is bent. I bought a brand new Tremec 5-speed kit, including a brand new drive shaft. After installation I had vibrations. It turned out that the drive shaft was slightly bent. I had the drive shaft straighten and balanced, then the vibrations stopped.
I’m having a severe vibration at 70mph and above. Mine is a dragNdrive car that I’ve just got put back together and it’s unbearable to drive. But after seeing this, I’m going to check to see if one of my 35 spline moser axles is bent. I have a procharged ls making a thousand wheel horse and its still a factory 12 bolt housing that’s been braced but I know I need a more stout rearend to really get after it safely. Thanks for making this video
A lot of codswallop. Measure the up or downward angle of the motor/transmission and the up or down angle of the pinion. These angles should be parallel. I.E, if motor is 3 degees down, the pinion should be 3 degrees up. It aint rocket science.
Not quite that simple. While you obviously want your angles of the trans and pinion equal and opposite, you’re neglecting the angle where the driveshaft meets these components. Think of an extreme example of a monster truck with the transmission jacked up 6 feet in the air its rear end 1 foot off the ground. You’ve got them pointed exactly equal and opposite. Now, install your driveshaft and look at the insane angle where it meets those two components. If you calculate your working angle it will be way out of spec and you will get terrible vibration.
did you find the solution to your problem ? i have he similar sound with my tru trac. at 75mph on decel , it makes the loud clunking noise. it goes away with a little bit of throttle.
Hey bud I don’t know if you got it figured out yet but I’m watching and it seems like that ring gear tooth is chipped and the backlash is a bit loose the tooth on the gear seems to be getting hotter than normal as well I could be wrong but heat will deform metal and been a set that needs to work together if it’s not working together it’s gone cause problems
That does suck.. Hope you figure it out. I was thinking about going with a Moser 12 bolt for my 68 if I ever decided to build a big block for it. I think I will just go to an s60 and pray I don't have to go through something like this.
Wow, sorry to hear and can't believe you have to deal with this again. I haven't read any posts below, but thinking the housing is bent causing the issue? Any way to have it checked for straightness? Of course probably most likely has to be done out of the vehicle using a jig, ugh.
I was thinking housing, but others do not think that would cause an axle to bend. It does seem hard to believe a bent housing could bend a 33 spline axle. I am still looking into checking the housing for straightness though.
Did you ever figure out the truetrac issue? Having the exact same noise issues (clunk & howl) & vibration issues. Will definitely be checking the V-angles tonight!
No. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is nothing I can do aside from getting a new Truetrac to see if that's a source of any issues. I also don't believe there are any adjustments that I can make to it either.
Stop beating yourself up on this, calm down and think this thru. Did you set up the rear gear? I used to do mine myself and used toothpaste on the gears to see how they meshed together. Maybe you'll need a shim on the pinion to get it closer and make the tolerance less. Bending axels is no fun and as you said expensive. If you do decide to buy a new axel, get a dial indicator and check the runout on it. You'll find something there. It's either the housing or the runout on the bearing where the race is in the housing. Just thinking out loud and trying to help. Best of luck pal.
Sorry your dealing with that!!! you've given me a lot of information over the years appreciate it! could it be simply the torque that is a big block 🤷🏾♂️ also I would think if it was the axle tube cause the bend, it would be harder than normal or at least the other side to install the axle!?
I can't see torque being the reason. That should cause the splines to twist, not the axle to bend. Besides, there are 700+ hp cars pulling 1.4 60fts with these axles, and I only have 525 ft-lbs or so doing barely 1.9. I do agree about that axle being harder to install, but maybe the tolerances aren't that tight.
@@SS454LS6 yeah kind of a shot in the dark it's hard to bend something that thick but it's definitely bent 🤷🏾♂️. . . you'll figure it out we always do, life of a car guy 💰💰💰🤣
Good to see you got some of the driveline vibes out. As for the axle, I would do 3 things. Cheque how straight the shot is from the axle bearing to the female spline in the Detroit. You could do it with a laser cartridge from a rifle and an adapter made on a lathe or some other kind of laser level. Check check the straightness of the female spline in the Detroit itself. Maybe you can spin it on a stand and see if it wobbles too. If both of those are near perfect then you likely need a different housing. Maybe the housing has a crack in the bearing area that you can’t see but opens up and deflects when torque is applied.
Never considered a crack before. I did look into checking for housing straightness, and the pros tell me the only sure way to do it is by using an alignment tool that requires the housing to be gutted. :/
damn it!!! I feel your pain. I'm in EXACTLY the same boat as you. I'm not even going to explain the process of elimination I've gone through to end up at exactly the same outcome every time. nowhere! I have a trutrac too and same amount of slop. I was so badly hoping by the end if your video you had your issue sorted so at least one of us wouldn't be so fucken frustrated! all I wanna do is the legal speed limit but no, because of a vibration at exactly 100kmh. I can be under acceleration or coasting with the clutch in or rolling in neutral with engine at idle but always does it at 100kmh. so sick of it. anyway like I said before, I'm feeling your pain all the way over here in Western Australia. this sucks!
@@SS454LS6 I purchased PMT Motorsport adjustable trailing arms from America when I rebuilt my car. I haven't adjusted them, just checked them for length against my stock ones. I will be checking my pinion angle today and adjusting if necessary. I'll let you know if that fixes my problem. also I've subscribed to your channel so if I lose this thread and I find out the problem in the future I'll let you know so you can see if that's what's going on with your car. us shitty car vibration guys need to have each other's back!.
I have the same wobble in my left rear on my 67 Chevelle. I have a bad vibration at 65ish+ and I'm sure it's my axle. I just haven't pulled it down to verify. If you have replaced it before I'd be looking to remove this LR axle and having a driveline machine shop verify how straight it is. (Mine is a small block with a TH400 and a 10 bolt)
Sounds like you may have the same issue. This is the 2nd axle that has bent on my car, both times LR. The last one was .047 out of round. I can't explain why it's doing it.
I think there is some confusion on your part.... when they say EQUAL but OPPOSITE... it means if your transmission is 2° down at the tailshaft then your differential should be 2° UP at the yoke!!!!!!!! So, looking at the car from the side-with your X-ray vision, your trans would be pointing down at the rear, but the nose, or front of your pinion yoke on your differential would actually be UP the same # of degrees, which in essence is still pointing DOWN if you follow the line of the pinion gear inside the rear differential. That is the EQUAL but OPPOSITE part. Your pinion nose/yoke should NOT be pointed down towards the ground---otherwise below parallel. It should be ABOVE the parallel line the same # of degrees that the rear of the trans is pointing down... see this video; ua-cam.com/video/YgNZfIR-8Ng/v-deo.html&ab_channel=GarageFab it lays it all out for you...
Im not confused at all. People talk about pinion and trans angles and don't seem to release depending on the height of those, the driveshaft could be sloped a ridiculous amount, or even be completely straight which is also bad. There are times when you can have the exact opposite what you describe, or sometimes the operating angles will be orientated the same way. Equal and opposite is ideal, but the equal operating angles are far more important, and should be within 0.5-2 degrees. For a coil spring car at least.
Yup! I can see the wobble. That axle is bent. Years I ago I was gonna replace my stock 10-bolt 8.2 with a aftermarket 12-bolt rear-end, but I changed my mind because I do not drag race at the track. I installed a eaton posi with 3.36 gears and left the stock axles. The rear end performs flawless. No noise, no clunking, and floats down the highway smooth. I hope that you can figure out your issue 🙂
Thanks
I think you need a backlash adjustment… a small shim in the pinion gear to bring it a hair closer to the ring gear should take up that slack
but could that be the source of the vibration?.
I’m betting on the bent axle being the vibration.
I'm fighting a vibration issue in my 67 Mustang. Driv8ng me up a wall trying to figure it out. Thanks for saying what ap you used to check your angles. I down loaded it. Will check mine tomorrow.
Wow this is disturbing to see, I bought a Moser almost 9 months ago but have not driven the car yet........I was waiting for other parts to come in, I should be on the road soon ......I hope I don't have this problem........will be following to see what happens, good luck with your fix.
Same here, xcept got Yukons. The wheel studs on my LH Dutchmans were misdrilled so figure it was my issue.
I"m 64 years old and been around hot rods and drag racing most of my life. Ran a 5 second drag bike that I spent untold gobs of money on. I finally figured it out. You will never cruze the miracle mile.... stop spending all that money and time building cars to empress people. Most people now a days dont even notice a muscle car drive by them. Save that cash up for when you get old. Your gonna need it some day if things go south and you cant work any more or get put out of a job .
This video is old now but, I just wanted to say that the howling is a direct result of changing upper and or lower control arms from rubber bushings to poly or spherical (which are incredibly louder than poly). I myself removed the original UCA’s and LCA’s on my Mustang (factory rubber bushings) and also removed the diff housing bushings (also rubber) and changed it all out with spherical parts from BMR.
On the first test drive after the install of the aforementioned parts, at around 15 mph I thought I blew my diff. I had a loud harmonic howling coming from the rear of the car which resonated throughout the body of the interior. I was confused.. The 2nd thing I noticed was metal on metal clunking when turning.. After parking the car and jumping on several forums I learned something. And well, guess what? This is the exact nature of spherical bushings. Anytime you replace a rubber part in the drivetrain with a metal counterpart (or even poly) you introduce a tremendous amount of noise and resonance into the body of the car.
Take it from me, there’s a give and take with every modification. However you have to find YOUR happy medium and that all is subjective to the individual. I wanted to launch and hook better (which I do with spherical bushings) but it came at the cost of a quiet ride with no howling.
Happy modding.
I went with Moser also. Used the 33 spline and TruTrack. Can you swap from side to side and see if the wobble follows the axle?
I could yes. I have plans to compare the axle with a completely different 12 Moser housing, so I will try that first.
@@SS454LS6 I put in a 12 bolt axle housing from an early monte in my 67 Camaro. I was going 4-link w/ mini tub anyway so I started from scratch. Welded on the big ford bearing kits after narrowing for the mini tub. Turned out pretty well.
I'm not sure where you are with your Vibrations now ? You sure spent sometime with the video ..... I feel YOUR PAIN !!! ill been thou all of it .... and still not completely gone.... /// I also has a 70 SS LS 6 in the 70's no Vibrations problems ,,, Did you say that you were getting whining noise ?? ( FYI ) many the gears are not set up correctly OR if the gears are not OEM gears they whin even if they are set-up perfect because they are not cut correctly ...
Check if the drive shaft is bent. I bought a brand new Tremec 5-speed kit, including a brand new drive shaft. After installation I had vibrations. It turned out that the drive shaft was slightly bent. I had the drive shaft straighten and balanced, then the vibrations stopped.
Good video, thanks. I have a V8 swapped Supra with 2 peice shaft, and IRS. I'll check the angles that can actually be adjusted.
I’m having a severe vibration at 70mph and above. Mine is a dragNdrive car that I’ve just got put back together and it’s unbearable to drive. But after seeing this, I’m going to check to see if one of my 35 spline moser axles is bent. I have a procharged ls making a thousand wheel horse and its still a factory 12 bolt housing that’s been braced but I know I need a more stout rearend to really get after it safely. Thanks for making this video
would love an update if you find the source of your vibrations. Good luck
I think the axle is bent and the axle housing..This may be why the axle is bent yet again..
I feel your pain, the joys of hot rodding...
A lot of codswallop. Measure the up or downward angle of the motor/transmission and the up or down angle of the pinion. These angles should be parallel. I.E, if motor is 3 degees down, the pinion should be 3 degrees up. It aint rocket science.
Not quite that simple. While you obviously want your angles of the trans and pinion equal and opposite, you’re neglecting the angle where the driveshaft meets these components. Think of an extreme example of a monster truck with the transmission jacked up 6 feet in the air its rear end 1 foot off the ground. You’ve got them pointed exactly equal and opposite. Now, install your driveshaft and look at the insane angle where it meets those two components. If you calculate your working angle it will be way out of spec and you will get terrible vibration.
did you find the solution to your problem ? i have he similar sound with my tru trac. at 75mph on decel , it makes the loud clunking noise. it goes away with a little bit of throttle.
Hey bud I don’t know if you got it figured out yet but I’m watching and it seems like that ring gear tooth is chipped and the backlash is a bit loose the tooth on the gear seems to be getting hotter than normal as well I could be wrong but heat will deform metal and been a set that needs to work together if it’s not working together it’s gone cause problems
sounds like its time for a different housing manufacturer, dutchman, mark williams, or currie for a 9in
That does suck.. Hope you figure it out. I was thinking about going with a Moser 12 bolt for my 68 if I ever decided to build a big block for it. I think I will just go to an s60 and pray I don't have to go through something like this.
I'm not against a 12 bolt, but as of right now I could not recommend a Moser.
I have a Strange S60 with 35 spline axles. No problems to report 😎
Wow, sorry to hear and can't believe you have to deal with this again. I haven't read any posts below, but thinking the housing is bent causing the issue? Any way to have it checked for straightness? Of course probably most likely has to be done out of the vehicle using a jig, ugh.
I was thinking housing, but others do not think that would cause an axle to bend. It does seem hard to believe a bent housing could bend a 33 spline axle. I am still looking into checking the housing for straightness though.
What Frankenstein vehicle is that with so many elementary problems?
Did you ever figure out the truetrac issue? Having the exact same noise issues (clunk & howl) & vibration issues. Will definitely be checking the V-angles tonight!
No. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is nothing I can do aside from getting a new Truetrac to see if that's a source of any issues. I also don't believe there are any adjustments that I can make to it either.
Brother had a 63 chevy that ate 21 rear ends before he found out the housing was bent thus putting extra strain on the gears.
Stop beating yourself up on this, calm down and think this thru. Did you set up the rear gear? I used to do mine myself and used toothpaste on the gears to see how they meshed together. Maybe you'll need a shim on the pinion to get it closer and make the tolerance less. Bending axels is no fun and as you said expensive. If you do decide to buy a new axel, get a dial indicator and check the runout on it. You'll find something there. It's either the housing or the runout on the bearing where the race is in the housing. Just thinking out loud and trying to help. Best of luck pal.
A well done informative video !
Sorry your dealing with that!!! you've given me a lot of information over the years appreciate it! could it be simply the torque that is a big block 🤷🏾♂️ also I would think if it was the axle tube cause the bend, it would be harder than normal or at least the other side to install the axle!?
I can't see torque being the reason. That should cause the splines to twist, not the axle to bend. Besides, there are 700+ hp cars pulling 1.4 60fts with these axles, and I only have 525 ft-lbs or so doing barely 1.9. I do agree about that axle being harder to install, but maybe the tolerances aren't that tight.
@@SS454LS6 yeah kind of a shot in the dark it's hard to bend something that thick but it's definitely bent 🤷🏾♂️. . . you'll figure it out we always do, life of a car guy 💰💰💰🤣
Good to see you got some of the driveline vibes out. As for the axle, I would do 3 things. Cheque how straight the shot is from the axle bearing to the female spline in the Detroit. You could do it with a laser cartridge from a rifle and an adapter made on a lathe or some other kind of laser level. Check check the straightness of the female spline in the Detroit itself. Maybe you can spin it on a stand and see if it wobbles too. If both of those are near perfect then you likely need a different housing. Maybe the housing has a crack in the bearing area that you can’t see but opens up and deflects when torque is applied.
Never considered a crack before. I did look into checking for housing straightness, and the pros tell me the only sure way to do it is by using an alignment tool that requires the housing to be gutted. :/
I wish Jeeps had adjustable control arms like that. This would make it so less invasive.
Back lash sounds excessive, not sure why the axle would be bent though ummmm
damn it!!! I feel your pain. I'm in EXACTLY the same boat as you. I'm not even going to explain the process of elimination I've gone through to end up at exactly the same outcome every time. nowhere! I have a trutrac too and same amount of slop. I was so badly hoping by the end if your video you had your issue sorted so at least one of us wouldn't be so fucken frustrated! all I wanna do is the legal speed limit but no, because of a vibration at exactly 100kmh. I can be under acceleration or coasting with the clutch in or rolling in neutral with engine at idle but always does it at 100kmh. so sick of it. anyway like I said before, I'm feeling your pain all the way over here in Western Australia. this sucks!
It's very frustrating. Especially when you can't trust the "quality" parts you paid good money for are actually within spec.
@@SS454LS6 yep. I even had centre bore locating rings machined up only to be beaten down again when I realised that wasn't the problem..
@@SS454LS6 I purchased PMT Motorsport adjustable trailing arms from America when I rebuilt my car. I haven't adjusted them, just checked them for length against my stock ones. I will be checking my pinion angle today and adjusting if necessary. I'll let you know if that fixes my problem. also I've subscribed to your channel so if I lose this thread and I find out the problem in the future I'll let you know so you can see if that's what's going on with your car. us shitty car vibration guys need to have each other's back!.
Would a double cardan joint help?
I wouldn't use a double cardan in a performance application. If the operating angles are so severe, I would go with a CV joint.
Poor qc from mfg. Normally I'm slow to jump to conclusions, but in this case it's obvious.
I have the same wobble in my left rear on my 67 Chevelle. I have a bad vibration at 65ish+ and I'm sure it's my axle. I just haven't pulled it down to verify.
If you have replaced it before I'd be looking to remove this LR axle and having a driveline machine shop verify how straight it is.
(Mine is a small block with a TH400 and a 10 bolt)
Sounds like you may have the same issue. This is the 2nd axle that has bent on my car, both times LR. The last one was .047 out of round. I can't explain why it's doing it.
@@SS454LS6 did you test for the wobble after replacing the axle?
@@jeffallen3382 I measured the run out when i replaced the axle. It was about .002 concentric, and .003 parallel. So it has bent in the car.
@@SS454LS6 I see, thank you.
80/90 oil is thicker than 85/140
I think there is some confusion on your part.... when they say EQUAL but OPPOSITE... it means if your transmission is 2° down at the tailshaft then your differential should be 2° UP at the yoke!!!!!!!! So, looking at the car from the side-with your X-ray vision, your trans would be pointing down at the rear, but the nose, or front of your pinion yoke on your differential would actually be UP the same # of degrees, which in essence is still pointing DOWN if you follow the line of the pinion gear inside the rear differential. That is the EQUAL but OPPOSITE part. Your pinion nose/yoke should NOT be pointed down towards the ground---otherwise below parallel. It should be ABOVE the parallel line the same # of degrees that the rear of the trans is pointing down... see this video; ua-cam.com/video/YgNZfIR-8Ng/v-deo.html&ab_channel=GarageFab it lays it all out for you...
Im not confused at all. People talk about pinion and trans angles and don't seem to release depending on the height of those, the driveshaft could be sloped a ridiculous amount, or even be completely straight which is also bad. There are times when you can have the exact opposite what you describe, or sometimes the operating angles will be orientated the same way. Equal and opposite is ideal, but the equal operating angles are far more important, and should be within 0.5-2 degrees. For a coil spring car at least.