Live from the Table: NY Times Journalist Ross Barkan on Biden, Trump, Israel, VPs, anti-Semitism...
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- Ross Barkan joins Noam Dworman, Dan Naturman and Periel Aschenbrand. Barkan is a novelist and journalist from New York City. He's a contributing writer to the NY Times Magazine and his reporting and essays have appeared in a wide variety of publications. His next novel, Glass Century, will be published in 2025 and he's writing a book about American politics and the 2024 elections.
Noam is unhinged
it is most definitely an immoral state lol you can deny it forever
Noam is lying. Netanyahu has never ever wanted two atates.
Ross, there are regularly debates regarding Israel, zionism, and the current war being streamed on UA-cam. I myself have probably seen around fifty debates since Oct 7th. Its a bit disingenuous to say that there are no debates and that the pro Israel side shuts down all conversation.
Thank you, Noam.
Noam is so brilliant, I love these conversations.
It seems to me that by this moment of time, if not decades earlier, hearing someone invoke "Israels right to self defense" causes more fear in the heart of a Palestinian than an Israeli hearing the invocation of "Intifada".
Here are some others:
The IDF are the most moral army in the world.
Palestinians were an invention by Arafat.
Palestinians are human shields and every death is a tragedy.
There is no occupation in Gaza.
From the river to the Sea is genocidal.
Israel is currently investigating the incident.
So true.
haha stick around to the end if you want to learn about Japanese traveling. another great convo!
We don’t have nice things here because of lobbyists, including airlines, and the rich only care about their own interests.
Noman is crazy. He is justifying and normalizing killing innocent Palestinian. The other guy is rational
Can you try to have Scott Adams? I think it would be a very interesting interview.
Wow excusing genocide
Define genocide and show me where it is happening in Israel/Palestine. lots of places in Africa, Sudan, etc.
@@alwise3963Genocide is mass murder of a racial, ethnic or religious group. It is happening in Gaza. Zionists pretend to be legal scholars while liberally using the word genocide when it comes to Hamas and other countries. Their position seems to be that it is impossible for Israel to commit genocide.
There’s a very simple way to determine if a genocide is occurring. If the alleged victims can do something to stop it other than fleeing, eg surrender and return the hostages, it isn’t a genocide.
it's not woke to argue for equality in the application of free speech restrictions to Jews. The point about pronouns and the hypocrisy of those demonising Jews while getting all upset about using the wrong pronoun is that the only minority against whom free speech is not policed is Jews. So it's an 'as applied' argument (free speech as currently applied creates an inequality which harms Jews). It's an argument for equality rather than free speech. In current conditions of free speech curtailment, allowing harmful speech against Jews itself CREATES the antisemitic speech forum, thereby creating an extra layer of antisemitism (the antisemitic speech and then the policing of the speech forum). Until we make that forum truly free, with no speech restrictions in favour of any minority, we have to protect the minority harmed by the inequality in free speech policing (in ref to your discussion circa 1:00:00)
I’ve been wondering if there’s a legal strategy that addresses this issue. Can Jews sue for unequal application of campus free speech protections, in the inverse? So, if you can cite an example where speech has been curtailed on campus to “protect” group x, but hasn’t been for Jews in an analogous instance, can that constitute a legal violation of some sort? A sort of inverse capricious application argument.
@@joge2468 Cases going through the courts at present on other grounds do involve this sort of argument I think. These are equality cases which include many forms of inequality on campus including I'd imagine comparing the protections which Jews get versus other minorities on campus. My point was more an intellectual one arguing against free speech absolutists who are, at the same time, very concerned about antisemitic speech patterns. They oppose censorship (and the argument of equalising censorship to include protections for Jews commensurate with that of other minorities) and say it should be replaced by better speech to counter the antisemitic speech. The problem is that if the speech forum is antisemitic, and policed in antisemitic ways, their argument defending free speech absolutism can't be implemented at the practical level. Speech which counters antisemitic speech gets censored when the antisemitic speech gets through (that has been my overwhelming experience especially correcting very one sided accounts of Israel's history and military campaigns in newspaper comments sections)
@@ursularight I understood your argument. The only way I know of to prove the forum itself is antisemitic, is to show how other minorities are protected where Jews are not.
@@joge2468 yes, that's true, hopefully the courts will rule appropriately. (The example of the UK courts is not great which is hardly surprising I guess given what's happening in the UK right now and again, the court system is probably just going to make it worse...)
1:10:36 Very few people address how much of Israel’s actions and attitudes were completely normal at the time. “Nakba” originally referred to the Arabs’ defeat by the Jews. The refugees were unremarkable because a “right of return” was not yet included in the notion of just warfare. People were displaced by war regularly.
In fact, “forced transfer” of stranded minorities (when borders changed) was considered the most humane approach. Tens of thousands of Poles and Germans were forcibly transferred after WWII. The population transfers between Cyprus and Greece are the most famous example.
Is this guy on edibles?
1:11:30 Every peace agreement that I’m aware of has included financial reparations for Palestinians who lost property. I believe Oslo II addressed reparations for the expelled Mizrahi as well. The analysis I’ve seen has put the figures in the millions for Palestinians, and billions for the Jews btw. Thank you for making the eminent domain argument. It is the correct analogy.
How is it that the best and most honest podcast comes from the Comedy Cellar? The viral interview with Philip Bump led me to discover your podcast. I learn the most from your interviews every week. Thank you!
Noam, obviously I don't know your personal dynamic with Periel but I've noticed you tend to cut her off/talk over her more than you do with others on the podcast. Maybe it's a conceit I'm missing but I thought it worth mentioning.
Well he is her boss I think so that doesn’t seem like a problem really. It’s HIS SHOW
Is noam pissed.
I can see you are struggling with all of this. Can you have Shaiel Ben-Ephraim on your show?
Talking with your eyes closed, like Barkan does, oozes pomposity.
Noam,
You should read some Ilan Pape and others. Palestinians were being ethnically cleansed prior to May 14 1948. E.g., Deir Yassin occurred April 9th. Palestinians were fleeing these such massacres, which started to cause a refugee problem in neighbouring Arab nations, which in turn caused these nations to respond. To call the subsequent Arab attack a genocidal war of anihilation is an inversion of history.
On another subject, does the recent spectacle of riots in Israel and debates within the Knesset to block the prosecution of 9 IDF soldiers who gang raped a Palestinian detainee speak to Israel's culture of morality?
He doesn’t care. He’s a Zionist. Truth is their enemy
Deir Yassin was not a massacre. It certainly wasn’t Israel’s finest hour given the soldiers threw grenades into homes. The Arab neighbor states were not responding to it or to the refugees fleeing to their countries. They fully intended to join a war against Israel from the outset.
November 29, 1947, Secretary General of the Arab League Pasha warned, “Arab men will not rally in great numbers if the Arabs are victorious from the start but if we suffer any defeats in the beginning then the Arabs will rally in huge numbers because it will be a question of racial pride."
Of the UN Partition Plan, he said, “Such a decision would mean the end of the first phase of the Arab struggle to have Palestine become an independent Arab state. The second phase of the struggle will now begin . . . the Arabs will have a long run of victories even it takes us until 1950 or 1960…We have justice, time and numbers on our side-everything but arms- and we shall get them too."
He said that tribesmen in Iran. Iraq and Saudi Arabia are "itching to fight."
What speaks to Israel’s culture of morality is that far, far more people have condemned those rallying in favor of the alleged rapists. And, of course, that Israeli officials have arrested the alleged perpetrators. Meanwhile, Abbas is still paying terrorists (or their families) for blowing themselves up and unaliving Israeli civilians. There really is no equivalence.
Or the soldiers who let a dog cannibalism a downs syndrome panestinian.
This Ukraine take is garbage.
Nosm,
Your comment regarding the notion of Israel being an immoral country got me ruminating. That is strong language and Im sure that if the moniker sticks for Israel, it certainly sticks for many other countries as well. Nevertheless, do you know what Israels relationship with apartheild South Africa was? Even during the time when much of the world was targeting SA with BDS, guess what Israel was doing for South Africa?
I don't think I meant that. Can you give me the timecode?
Thank you for your interest and reply.
You made some mention of how wrong it is for people to consider Israel an immoral country from and or due to its founding. Recall you said there needs to be a "reprocessing"?
I dont think this post or my point here is all that poignant. Here, I just wanted to remind or let people know what Israel's relationship was with the government of apartheid South Africa and as a consequence/indirectly, South Africa's Black inhabitants. Btw, as a side note, the PLO provided material support to the ANC in their struggle against apartheid.
If your time is limited, please skip this and engage with my earlier post regarding whether Israel's war of Independence was really a war of self defense against genocidal Arabs. I think that post is much more consquential.
Israel is depraved.
What the hell is wrong with this Ross Barkin guy?
His dsughter is gettung hrsinwashed at summercamp
Interview Avi Shlaim
The swap to Camelot is so disgusting that I would vote for Trump even if I did not want to before. It's removing power from the people! Trump 2024!