The situation described at the start of the video reminded me of a joke about why you can't win with some therapists: * If you're always late, you're irresponsible * If you're always early, you're insecure * If you're always exactly on time, you're obsessive * If you're sometimes one, sometimes the other -- you're unstable
I grew up in the charismatic evangelical church, when I was trying to deal with issues I was frequently told that I was demon possessed. Turns out that I simply have autism. I’m so glad I got out when I did.
All those old demons, autism, asthma, mumps, smallpox, depression, etc., can be dealt with so much more effectively now. I too am glad you got out. Pity so many are still trapped, and trapping others believing they're helping.
That sounds like the Pentacostals who blame everything on the devil or, “that’s of the devil”. The ones I met and knew did more harm to people than good because of their misjudging others and then labeling them rebellious/unsubmissive if they didn’t obey the headship. Yuk 🤮🤮
Oh come on! This isn't the Third World! No-one told you that unless you believed it yourself! Btw blaming others for your departure from the Church is inappropriate. Take ownership and blame yourself.
That’s the way you are trained. Usually, when you are at the University you are still a young guy believing all what is told. Besides, many university curriculum are useless, once you graduated you are on your own with so much theory and no technical and practical therapeutic skills.
@@seancodd6274 Scientology also believes that when bad things happen to you like your train being late it's always because of bad things you've done or secrets you're keeping. It sounds really like this class was a Scientology front group.
Excellent video. What pains me most about the "used chewing gum" analogy that youth pastors apply is that, with any large gathering of teenagers, it's a statistic certainty that some of them were abused. On top of that trauma is now added the shame and self-loathing that comes with this literal demonization of sexuality. This lunacy has to stop. Also, I completely agree that the 'implicit bias' tests are pseudo-scientific nonsense.
There is another reason the cupcake test doesn't work. We would eat the licked cupcake if 1. We know the person who did it is healthy and 2. We don't like frosting anyway. If everyone in a family threw out all the food that has been mildly licked such as kids who don't eat their vegetables or too full, our food waste would go up, hence leftover nights. Of course, no one would consume spoiled goods if it could be proven how it's spoiled, such as the person is both unknown to us and sick or the food is expired or have good reason to suspect its contaminated.
Implicit associations are a thing, but the conclusions that some derive from the tests are totally inappropriate. Simply because you have unconsciously associated two things (fat & bad) doesn't mean you treat fat people poorly. Edit: And he said the same thing in the video. Nice that someone is trying to clear it up.
Makes me sick. Pointless shame is most of the reason young people hesitate to report abuse of a sexual nature. And it’s not limited to an irrational anxiety in their conditioned minds; there’s rational apprehension about the additional long-term humiliation that they will receive from their community and family if they come out about having been “tainted.” Also they risk being blamed or denied as a liar, and may face retaliation. So it makes sense why people in most cultures may decide emotionally or intelligently that it’s not worth the risks to “confess” to being raped.
If you spend your whole life fearing and obeying authority you'll never become a real adult. It's amazing to me when parents want their children to be less free and less experienced than they were. I've heard so many stories of Mormons who've reached the marriage bed with bizarre, almost childlike understanding of sex. That's dangerous!
What is actually dangerous is allowing your children far too much "freedom" and less guidance and structure. After all "being an adult" requires self-control - which is precisely what obeying authority instills.
@@THXx1138 Obeying authority does not teach Self control or Self knowledge. In fact, if we think in terms of Cause and Effect where the Self is Cause and the Ego is Effect, then it is the Ego which gets molded by obeying authority. To have Self knowledge you must realize the Ego is your "public face" and that is different than the Self. Always ask: "Which comes first the Self or the Ego?" To return from Ego (illusion) back to Self knowledge means you "repent". Repent means to "crawl back". So the child that recognizes what is the Self and sees how that compares to their Ego identity has Self knowledge. The slave mentality is where you are 100% Ego and essentially an NPC obeying preprogrammed directives. The free will is the Self knowledge in action. The Self is free, the Ego is a slave. Cause and Effect.
Eric Linz True, you are absolutely right. Thing is, some people (and all actual children) can’t be free because they aren’t competent enough to run their own lives. No one trusts a 10 year old kid to do his/her homework and go to a job and pay bills, that’s why parents are involved- religion was aimed at being the parent for those who needed it. For instance, the person who got his girlfriend pregnant in high school is encouraged to step up and take responsibility- where do you think that came from? Could it possibly be religion?
@@orppranator5230 That's not a good example because in the old days people got married shortly after puberty. To risk a pregnancy back then when marriage was so near was just foolish. In our current situation where women erode their souls by riding the "Cock Carousel" for two decades it leaves the women incapable of establishing a pair bond. Also, by 35 years old a woman often is losing her ability to have children as her fertility is in rapid decline heading towards menopause. Ideally women have children around the age of 18 which is "peak fertility" for women and usually when their health is the best. And these days you can abort at any time... even after birth if you are secretive about it. (very profitable because the parts are very $$$)
This type of thinking used to be entirely normal among doctors dealing with mental health. So much abuse. It's great that we can finally put it to rest and call out the people who cling to it
“As therapists, we shouldn’t diagnose our patients with imaginary disorders.” “Oh yeah? Then there’s something wrong with you. You should see a therapist.” “. . .”
The pure relief I felt when you said that the train might have, in fact, been late... because as soon as you posited the scenario of the leader asking for extrapolation about the client's lateness, I became anxious and worried and angry and scared. This kind of thing has happened to me so many times, and it makes you feel so confused and stressed and dislocated... childhood was a nightmare on this score, thank GOD for survival. Obviously, it's still enough of a problem to cause me a visceral reaction to a calmly related exemplary tale but I really, really appreciate you for putting this across, so I could experience another person having the same thought process (and the same nonsensical feedback). It's all well and good to see it in fiction, but the fictional aspect is easily exploited by an unsure mind, especially one that is fighting negative external pressures. Fuck, I'm glad my vocabulary has expanded too, because I was working with maybe forty thousand less words when this kind of thing started happening to me, at a guess. Thanks, mate. For real. Back to the 3 minute mark... Edit: Upon rereading, my very colloquial use of God as an exclamation might give an impression that I am emphatically religious. I am not. I'm cool with the cool, as long as you're loving and caring, no exploitation or bigotry, absolutely rock on. And, just to add to the comment stats, yep, neurodiverse AF (ie x 3 - AuDHD/C-PTSD)
Totally understand that reaction you describe. What that tutor was proposing was an absolute abuse. I can only imagine how many clients she gaslighted with her psychobabble in her time. From her little outburst, it was clear she wasn't used to getting pushback.
Thanks I needed this. Finally someone says how flawed the psychology industry is. Because of a diagnosis I got as a child my life got turned upside down. Adults told me ,a 6-year-old back then, that there were so many things wrong with me. Some even said I was cursed. Even some of my positive traits were viewed as symptoms and flaws. I started to hate myself for my "curse". Around the age of 12 I managed to see through their bullshit. My teacher did not like that and kept reminding me of my "flaws" on a weekly basis. Eventually I told her "Why are you still trying? Do you really not realise that there is no way to convince me?" After that I left the psychological "treatment" world for good. I just turned 21 now and nowadays I am blessed with a good education, friends and a lovely boyfriend. Some damage is still there though. I am still very self aware, scared of job discrimination and sometimes I feel inferior compared to others. But I am working on that. The "therapy" I had is child abuse disguised as help. I hope that these horrible kinds of "therapy" will be exposed one day. I also hope that one day there will be an clear vision of the human mind so that society knows exactly what to do when someone needs an actual treatment.
Aliceintherosegarden Exactly! I find that therapists are so incompetent and devoid of empathy themselves. They try to appear like experts by trowing labels and psychobabble around just to boost their egos, yet, they cause real harm by pathologizing the patient with so called faults they don’t have. Therapists are the defective ones and live in constant denial and a sense of superiority.
Aliceintherosegarden I can relate. I was diagnosed bipolar when I was 6. It was hammered into me that I couldn’t trust my own thoughts and feelings ever.
I feel the same way having been tossed into therapy for a long time after my parents divorced. I don’t remember feeling psychologically affected in any significant way over the event, and yet I was constantly shoved into a therapist’s office again and again until I began to actually develop problems, all because they assumed that because my parents had just divorced I must’ve been in emotional shambles.
I remember taking an IAT test in a psych course and being really angry when it said I had a bias against black people because the test consisted of two parts, the first being 'hit the right key when you see a white person and the left key for a black person' and the second 'hit the right key when you see a good/happy facial expression, and the left key for a bad/angry expression'. They TRAINED ME to associate left with dark skin, then accused me of being racist when they suddenly made the left key the 'bad' one!!
These "imaginary defects" lead to very real defects that I've been spending years on undoing. It's quite awkward to have to explain to others than certain insecurities actually stem from a therapist seen in my early teenage years.
Real conversation is therapy. I've made huge leaps in conversation, and seen sentiments change in those with "real therapists." Therapists are humans and flawed, and to think they're magic is an issue that lets bad therapists carry weight.
Personally, I think if a therapist can't possibly believe that a client could be telling the truth about their motives, feelings, or experiences, that therapist either needs therapy and/or a vacation before they become too cynical and burnt out to be effective as a therapist!
WTF! They need to be confined for about six months in a mental hospital where ALL the staff has that same cray Cray disrespectful attitude toward them.
What I like About buddhism and in a way even took from it is the idea of "perfection in imperfection". You can improve yourself, others, the world around you, but there is no way you are gonna be at Peace with it if you are not willing to accept that there is no way for Things not to be flawed.
secular postmodernist thought succeeds religious-based dogma in the realm of philosophy. ideas of relativism and skepticism are in every way intellectually superior to objectivism and the confines of dogma. thoughts and ideas should be like a liquid, changing shape to fit the container of perceived reality. the unnerving part about true skepticism is that our minds can't always handle it. we succumb very easily to emotional appeals. we identify with facts causing offense when they are disputed. even the most brilliant minds in human history were no stranger to the flaws of our mind. it's hardly a comfortable thought, but it's so important to acknowledge.
@@stereoraptor6940 So what do you say to the charges that Plato levied against relativism and skepticism? That they are self-defeating? If epistemic relativism is true, then it can only be true, within a certain system, within a certain culture, within a certain historical epoch, or within the mind of certain individuals, depending on how you define your version of relativism. If Skepticism is true, then either it is also false, or there is no way for anyone to actually know that it is true, depending on how you define skepticism. If knowledge is impossible, then most, if not all, of what we talk about is nonsensical.
@@Sewblon it would apply if someone said skepticism is always true, as if it was an absolute. But I think many people advocating for us to be more skeptical dont believe that. It's more about how siepticism is one of the more useful tools to evaluate authenticity of things. It can detach us from problems we may be blind to in things we would like to be true The thing is, what Plato says about skepticism could also be applied to logical thought as a whole. In short, it seems like a false dichotomy. The logic only applies if you shorten the scope to a concept either being completely true or completely false, with no grey zone in between.
@@nathanbruce1992 "The thing is, what Plato says about skepticism could also be applied to logical thought as a whole." Your thesis shocks and intrigues me. Please elaborate.
Pick any random activity. Singing. Painting. Using umbrellas. Space travel. Label it a sin, and notice how easy it is to find spurious reasons to condemn it.
I mean it was only a generation ago when dancing was a sin, Pokémon taught the lies if evolution, and table top games like DnD were satanic summoning rituals. So ya
@@Sasha_fox314 yes you're right and so is the original comment, I misunderstood and meant to say that, it's not a bad thing to condemn evil things. In my book
That story about the therapist is EXACTLY how my dad treated me throughout my childhood. Every mistake I made had to be because I secretly wanted to spite him or didn't really want to succeed. I still fall into that way of thinking sometimes. It's so hard to break out of especially since he's not the only person who's done it.
There was this interesting point raised during one of Alan Watts lectures, wherein he pointed out the dangers of therapists replacing the soothsayers and priests of old. Instead of interpreting the will of the gods, now interpreting the unconscious. A good therapist is a blessing, but the opposite is really dangerous. Sadly, most people are at a disadvantageous position due to asymmetrical information of the parties involved and can't distinguish the charlatans from the genuine thing. Edit: spelling (an/a)
I’ve been watching your videos for a few months and just realized your qualifications from this video. I’m not sure how much your education helped you deliver ideas so well, but I’ve always admired how you can explain these ideas so well and simply. Thank you
I've noticed a very bizarre tendency even among standard medical staff to assume things are psychological even when there is evidence to the contrary. This can be potentially fatal. In my own experience, I have a general tendency towards upper respiratory infections due to a narrow esophagus which resulted from scarlet fever as a child. Unfortunately, this narrow esophagus problem means I can't breathe through my nose so I'm prone to post nasal drip and inflammation which means that when I have an upper respiratory infection any tests tends to show up negative even when symptoms are visibly present. Now, this is all very well established in the medical history, but this one time I went to the emergency room due to feelings of drowning while I'm sleeping. The doctor believed it was just a dream and was going to prescribe an anti-inflammatory at best. I insisted on getting an x-ray based on my medical history and my insurance would pay for it, he eventually relented and while waiting for the results to get back was going on about how he expected to find nothing until he saw the X-ray and he could see the spots in my lung. I had bacterial pneumonia. There was no doubt at that point so an antibiotic was prescribed. That was just one incident and even though these cases keep happening medical professionals seem to be reluctant to refer to the patient's own medical history, rather they rely entirely on assumptions when a patient doesn't fit a particular mold.
I have suffered terrible insomnia and so many doctors refuse to accept when I say "No I'm not anxious, I'm very calm at night time, I just can't fall asleep." They ask the same question ten different ways hoping I'll admit to some anxiety or psychological flaw, when no, that's not the issue, I WISH it was that simple. I wish I could just meditate or go to therapy or take anxiety meds and that would fix my sleep troubles, but it just isn't so. I've TRIED all those things, they didn't work because they targeted an issue I DON'T have. Ughhhh.
@@SuperPrettyPink101 yeah, I mean, how hard is it to get a medical professional to believe in standard medical knowledge? It's as if they never heard of the Circadian rhythm, and how a variety of external factors can influence that. The color of light, proximity to electromagnetic fields, noise level, overall Comfort, Etc. Environment is the first thing that should be looked into under the circumstances. For you, I would suggest you try a few tests to determine your environmental cause. 1.) Does your environment have any blue lights? Most electronics these days do. Eliminate sources of blue light by putting electrical tape over those various blue LED and get a blue light filter for your smart phone. Use full spectrum bulbs during the day, but at night go for warmer wavelengths. Minimize television and artificial light exposure for a few days to see if it improves matters. 2.) To test against EM fields, or individual sensitivity to otherwise safe levels, you can get an EM shielded blanket to cover your head in. Alternatively, a foil hat really can help disrupt EM fields, but won't be as effective considering the exposed areas. 3.) Sounds are easier to diagnose, but background noises can have frequencies that disrupt sleep as well. Pay attention to any source of distraction in your environment and try finding silence. Of course, some people are just wired for a different schedule. It's possible that your own rhythm once you to sleep during the day and be awake at night. If that's the case, it might be better for you to choose a line of work that would allow you to sleep during the day.
Yeah i noticed a pretty strong trend, among several physicians and dont know why, it could be interesting to get some investigations into that issue. I have not gotten any progress on my conditions over 10-12 years but i have found ways to relieve it greatly by myself sometimes having to ignore advice or even do the opposite because i know these advices are not helping me but hurting me instead (because i/we tried them at length before), but it is hard to get them to listen.
Doctors are trained to expect the worst until further proof can be found. This way, there are less unnecessary tests and less false positives that may lead to pointless complications in the future. This is effective in the majority of cases that are not obvious emergencies since the problem's root can be scouted over a period of time, but as your and many other stories demonstrate, this is not always the case. This is what might cause the common experiance of not being able to get through to the doctor. If you encounter this issue again, ask the doctor what they would tell their loved ones to do if there was the possibility of future unecessary complicaitons if treatment is refused.
"You have to assume things about the motives of your clients!" "No you don't." "Now class, what can we assume about the motive of the guy who disagrees?"
The Tutor for the begining sounds like she might be more in the need of therapy than her clients...The way she responds to your arguments sounds pretty disturbing....
I was briefly engaged to the eldest daughter of George, a well-respected and sagacious therapist. Several times he "tested" me with questions that I thought were shallow attempts to establish my intelligence and other "credentials." He asked me what I thought of a paper he was presenting to his students. I was initially bewildered but concluded that he was assessing me so I barely responded. On another occasion he said that his daughter's lovers were invariably "needy." I now believe that his daughter created needy men, with her own manipulative come-hither and then rejecting confusing behaviour. She was a parasite and he an arrogant twat in need of more navel-gazing and reflection. I sometimes throw the fact that Psychiatrists, Therapists, Psychologists, Counsellors etc have imperfect lives into the conversation.
Dude, not that I'm in _need_ of a therapist or anything, but hearing the stories you share of other therapists, if I was in need of a therapist, I would be SO THANKFUL to stumble upon you as my choice. If you take clients I hope they are very happy and satisfied.
@@SamN234 the current methods of therapy help women more than men. Women find talking openly about their problems to be therapeutic. Men find hobbies/work to be therapeutic, you can see this as so many men bond and talk about their life to their friends over a video game, sports, working on something. This is what works for men but therapy itself has became feminized, co'opted by feminism. You can see a similar thing to how young boys are treated at school. These boys have energy and want to play playfight (like most young mammals do), be loud, rowdy, but the golden standard according to many teachers nowadays (even when I was in school) was the calmer, easier to handle young girls. The boys are expected to act like young girls, held to that golden female standard, scolded fir being young boys (like how one teacher freaked out and called the cops on a young boy drew a stick figure with a gun, I was drawing sick men killing each other like a massive video game forover a decade as a kid). Anywaaaays, the boys are punished fir not being like their female counterparts and if that's still an issue they drug the young boys with xanax so they sit still and shut up, rather than say extend recess (which has been shortened over and over again across the western world) so the young boys can expend that youthful energy healthily. So like with therapy, the school system has been feminized and thusly they value only the female standard of behavior and go so far as to drug the young boys for years. Same as for homework and attendance being part of a grade, just bullshit so women would stop failing as women do worse on tests overall compared to men, the way grades are done now is so you wouldnt fall behind for simply being the busy workerbee, otay disgusting imo as tests ARE THE PROOF you actually learned something from the class, where as homework (normally being 70% of the total grade) is just busywork, you don't need to practice the same thing over and over again if you understand it already, like how plants are green cause of thr chemical chlorophyll and the light it reflects is green, this you see it as green... like how long do I gotta explain it before we all understand it? Plants are green cause chlorophyll. These two systems amongst others have been influenced and infested with feminists and their ideals, changing every they were supposed to be, into what can it do to benefit feminism.
@@elgatochurro If becoming a therapist was as simple as having a conversation or listening to a person problems it wouldn't require years of training. A therapist uses 'conversations' to find out the 'flaws' in a person way of thinking and then proceeds to find how best to tackle these flaws. I'm no professional on the subject but if you are going to try and prove that something as complicated as therapy is sexist then you need to have a basic understanding of what you are talking about.
7:37 In fact in Judaism, it IS consider a sin to open umbrella or to paint, if you do it on the Shabbat, it is also a sin to sing for women if any man is present. So yeah, EVERYTHING can be consider a 'sin', and it kind of already is.
I find the existence of such quit shocking. Associations are clearly not personal. I can associate being old with agony, but out of the reality, and not in wanting the old to be in agony.
@@drax325 Not only that, but doesn't necessarily even measure a real association. For example, it could depend on which type of pairing is done first or which is done last. Both of those could make reaction times faster or slower depending on the specifics. AND there is the fact that it's asking you to separate people into two groups in the first place. If your usual mode of operating is to ignore any such difference, here they are specifically asking you to not ignore it, thus purposely introducing biases into the test. It is just a horribly unreliable test all around. And I hate that there are some places that foolishly use it like it has any weight.
@@watcherfox9698 The test is flawed, but not for that reason. You say it could "depend on which type of pairing is done first or which is done last", but why? Because those pairings can create an association that wasn't there before. It's still a clever way to tease out mental associations, but as the video described, that's all it does -- it finds out what stereotypes we're familiar with, what associations we're aware of even if we don't approve of them or act on them. The test also doesn't require you to "ignore any such difference [in the two groups]" nor does it "ask you to not ignore it". Either you haven't taken the test or you don't remember it. There are mental associations we have that will naturally make you quicker at pairing concepts. If I ask you to click a button when you see a "primary color" and another when you see a "secondary color", you'll find it extremely easy because you've already categorized them. If I ask you to click when you see a "primary color" or a "good" word, it won't be any easier or harder than clicking when you see a "primary color" or a "bad" word because you have no prior association with primary colors as being either good or bad. The slowing comes from the same thing we see in a Stroop test where you have to fight an association that you already hold, and it works in testing these associations in exactly the same way that the Stroop test does. The test doesn't ask you to "ignore any difference" or to "not ignore any difference" just as the Stroop test doesn't, because it isn't necessary for the test to work.
@@Starcrash6984 But when measuring response times. They need to be able to differentiate, reading speed, no previous bias, and resistance. And it is worse if they have repeat questioning but negation. And if there is limited choice you might magnify the difference in order to represent. Like 4/10 or 5/10 becomes agree or disagree. - And people have a natural feeling to give "correct" answers so more likely to follow collective views rather than personal, even without prompting.
Funny you should mention the Stroop test. When I was 17 I designed an experiment for my psychology A level course to investigate one of the ideas offered to explain the Stroop effect - that we automatically read written material so when we see the word 'Black' printed in blue ink, we conflate the two when asked to identify the ink colour. I got subjects to do the Stroop test in different conditions - first reporting the colour ink of the words verbally; second pointing to printed colour names - eg. 'black', 'yellow', 'blue', etc. - and lastly, just pointing to colour patches. In the first two conditions, the Stroop effect was observed. But when subjects pointed to colour patches, there was no Stroop effect - which refuted the 'automatic reading' explanation.
If a therapist even so much as _asked_ whether there's an alternative reason when the freaking trains were late, I would immediately cancel the treatment. If I found out they assumed or suspected it, I would also cancel the treatment and dismiss _everything they ever said to me_ (other than things I could confirm independently) as suspect and from an unreliable source.
I’m a Christian. And I love this video. I’ve been bouncing around the atheist community looking for good criticism of religion that didn’t just amount to “religion bad. Believers stupid” surprisingly hard to find respectful analysis and critique of the texts and methods. And it’s even harder to find any criticism from the Christian circles. The only way to truly learn is to explore all aspects of a subject. You and Telltale are by far the best I’ve found so far.
Yeah, I find that TT addressing the malignant psychological effects along with the theological non-sequiturs in a calm manner that doesn't malign the average theist at the bottom ranks really makes his content a different breed to standard angry atheist X. And don't get me wrong, as an atheist I think there's plenty to be angry about regarding religion's ideological hostage-taking over society, but it's unproductive to just rant aimlessly.
@@moosicalapocalypse9870 instead of attacking and showing Offensive tactics "like religion". He shows defensive non-combative thought concepts, water not Stone. Thought, not violence in a very honest way, with Actual Good Intentions, not "exaggerated claims and excuses to Broken Promises".
@@moosicalapocalypse9870 as an apostate, previously R.catholic, then immersed in O.T. and attended "Tree of Life, PITT PA". Did you know at birth, there were 10,000 religions, of 1,000,000+gods, deities, angels, lords, demons and Spirits? You knew out of 10,000 sect's of christ, which one was true to the Devine word. You knew, Gian G. Trissino, german grammarian 1524 finalized in as a offical Letter. Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, Greek, Roman and Germanic languages did not have a ju? Be Caus, at birth you knew which translation of a Translation of Hear-sayism was, faithful to the Original? I am am named from bible N.T. "JoEl GabriEl with christ in last name, I kNOw, the Big picture you Don't . Find why I don't do religion further by knowing whom j-NoEl is to bileBulln GabriEl as well. kNOwing, is Half the Battle. Last note : Genesis 6: 1-5, one of few Facts in lies, Nephilim are among us, most don't know they are. I am n and have lineage records. "Crucifixion Fresco with UFO's " found in Turkey? Yeah who has or not HALO'S, "Nod-ian" people or the OTHERS below and hidden amongst them. Yeah you just google christian UFO art, open your stitched shut Eyes
In atheist-centric communities, a lot of the subject material ends up as preaching to the choir Still, there's a vast amount of valid criticism and decent arguments. Forrest Valkai is another channel I like and I think his arguments are persuasive
I'm so grateful that I've never had to deal with a therapist like the ones at that course. The hallmark of a baseline-decent therapist is _listening._ Truly, truly listening is the bare minimum a person needs to do to be a decent therapist, and the therapists teaching that course sound completely opposed to such methods. I feel so sorry for any clients that fell victim to their complete incompetence and frank malpractice. Oh, and on the topic of mormonism and sex - there's a huge need for mormon sex therapists in Utah (hmmmm, I wonder why...). One mormon sex therapist committed the awful sin of giving people evidence based, non-shaming therapy, and was excommunicated. She refused to go against the standard of care for her clients (whom she truly helped) and was punished. It's appaling.
Not gonna lie, that initial story about the strange course makes a lot of sense when you remember that therapists earn money with every session, so it makes sense that some therapists with less than pure motives would immediately try and make sure that they can squeeze every possible session from each client
"Whoever lives for the sake of combating an enemy has an interest in the enemy's staying alive" Nietzsche (allegedly) I've also heard approximately the same in the (Chinese?) idea that "you should only pay your doctor when you are healthy", which perhaps fits into this video even more. If someone makes money/gains power/etc. with healing people (literally, or cleansing of sins or whatever), they're going to have an interest in keeping people sick.
one time when i was a teenager my dad brought me to a psychologist. we talked for a few minutes and as her questions got more and more personal at some point i started crying in deep sadness about some events of my life and she said i had severe repressed feelings within me. after leaving there and calming down, i considered what she said but it didn't feel to me at all that i had repressed emotions or issues that i need fixing and had never again thought any of that was a problem in my life either before or after visiting her that one time. in retrospect it really felt like she was manipulating me and pulling my strings into convincing myself i had some issue i had to fix that didn't really exist. truly despicable.
Interesting and high quality as always. Superb. And also a concerning account of a therapy course at the beginning. The tutor's response of silence then moving on was interesting. It sounds pretty much as if her mind blue-screened on cognitive dissonance and took a while to reboot before continuing as if nothing had happened. With people leaving due to the poor ethics of the course, the course selects for people who are of poorer ethics or who are - shall we say - less independently-minded.
Cheers CHL. I like your image of her mind 'blue-screening' on dissonance! You're right about the self-selecting - there was a lot of 'just following orders' mentality, which is effectively a renunciation of personal ethics. You can't have that mentality around vulnerable clients.
Reminds me of a video in which a disabled fella politely told a women not to pet his dog repeatedly, since the dog was working at the moment and it would be a distraction. She just stared blankly for a few seconds then stated she doesn't like his attitude. It's like she didn't understand being told that she couldn't do what she felt she deserved to be able to do and verbally attacked him instead of accepting his request. ua-cam.com/video/moxvzwnk7Ww/v-deo.html
@@TheraminTrees I'll be honest, I was just passing through, not that I didn't like this, just that I wasn't sure how I got here (never saw your channel before). Was about to head on out after a few minutes, then I scroll down, see CHL as the top comment, and I knew I had to stay put when he has favorable things to say about the video.
A lot of religious sexual biases are about getting you to spawn as many new recruits for the religion within the religion as possible whether the people behind them know that or not.
Nah... like all other sexisms by public organizations (because I call a spade "a spade") tell me that their leadership tends toward a disgusting over-fixation on pornography and a self-loathing for watching the free-stuff on the internet... SO they're bored enough to bother fixating and targeting their so-called "flock" members (and anyone else they can) with their projections of perversion, insecurity, and over-active imagination/power-fantasies... It's a similar principle to "The meanest thing you can do to a thief is steal from him." ;o)
It does make sense. Religious memes are subject to the survival of the fittest and over time the less fit ideologies die out. That doesn't make the surviving ones better morally but it does mean they're better at passing on their traits. If you consider the individual idiosyncrasies of various religious/cult leaders as forms of random mutation, you can find some mutations that make their followers have slightly better odds of continuing to propagate. Every so often a group that completely forbids sexuality even among straight people does arise. Christianity has major movements of that sort show up regularly, the largest one that's recent being the Shakers. These groups rarely survive for more than 100-150 years. After the charismatic leader whipping everyone up and his most ardent disciples die, the group will struggle to replace its dwindling population and it will slowly fizzle out of existence. It's not just Christianity, Heaven's Gate notably did something similar. Hasidic Ashkenazi Judaism is actually playing out a longer term version of something similar. Instead of banning all sex, it only permits it between group members. The problem is that there's a limited gene pool and converts, Jews from other sects and Jews of other races aren't welcome, and neither are donor sperm or eggs. I got bullied relentlessly for being part Arab and eventually just left altogether. There are around 130,000 Hasidic Jews which sounds like enough but they're all already massively inbred. No "pure bred" Ashkenazi is further than a fourth cousin from any other. That's why there are so many diseases exclusive to that community. This problem could easily be solved but it won't be. In a few generations the Hasidic community is going to disappear from inability to create viable offspring and be entirely replaced with Jews who do accept converts and mixed race marriages. I say good riddance.
@@fingerboxeshold the phone, did you just accurately employ the use of the word ‘memes’ from its original meaning? I’m sorry, I’ve literally never seen this before in a comment section. At best, a few UA-cam videos and 1 largely misunderstood video game have took Dawkin’s definition seriously. If we lived in an alternate reality where this was normal, I’d be adding to your commentary on how religion propagates through various shady tactics, but right now, saying ‘memes’ with its original use is so rare that it’s too mind blowing for me to just simply not talk about it!
I enjoyed this topic. I've recently felt that mental illness is over-diagnosed and under-treated (effectively by actually treating the root problem), even romanticised in our culture. The IAT is interesting though, so I do plan on taking the Harvard one I found online. Because of current political extremism on both sides, I think many people miss conversations that discuss the nuance of implicit discrimination. I've almost lost faith that people who are interested in novel stances and open-minded discussion exist. But they should exist, in theory, so I'm putting myself out there to find out. Either way, this is my first time viewing your channel and won't be my last. Excellent video and visuals. Your channel will definitely blow up soon.
@Michael Freed I've thought of that too. To me, our monotheistic culture makes people believe that good and evil are two separate people. It also makes people chase perfection (trying to be godly), which leads to shame and self-hatred. I sometimes wish we could return to polytheism.
Talking about nuances on discrimination is extremist, because it makes a huge deal of harmless acts and makes a monster of normal people. Check the Duluth model, ppl want to make even the slightest criticism or joke illegal because they say it leads to physical violence.
@@CvnDqnrU this is a claim I often hear about but never see. I've not met one person who wants to ban jokes, and i know a lot of left wing people. Seems blown out of proportion at the least
@@CvnDqnrU Talking about nuances on nearly any topic is necessary to get a full picture of the issue. Discrimination in all its form ultimately harms people, so being able to detect "unconcious bias" could be helpful in getting people to challenge their prejudices or modes of thinking. However, when ineffective testing is paired with a strong claim ("You're racist!"), then we have an issue. Extremism isn't simply a claim that strongly differs from yours, and that word is often overused in political discussions. Radicals will often like to call themselves radical, at least on the far left wing (which are communists, not anti-racists).
Thank you for providing insight into the psychology behind those matters! With the start of your video I can immediately recall the sense of worry as a youth whether I would be good enough to God to be taken away in the rapture. That crippling feeling of being broken, worthless, unable to do good. Now I can step back and see the mechanism at work. And escape it.
@LuthAMF Which Christianity? As a Baptist child I was taught that all humans are evil, and much adult behavior supported this, especially my mother's. I found other denominations taught much the same with differing emphasis. And noticed "evil" seemed to be learned and increase with age, babies and children seemed "better" before learning their elders' prejudices.
@LuthAMF If what you say were true there wouldn't be so many denominations. And I've tried quite a few, both protestant and catholic, orthodox and charismatic . They all have one thing in common: mankind is guilty by default and need salivation in order to escape condemnation. In fact all religions do. Not even one starts with the default position of being whole and accepted unconditionally. Not one portrays god/God as helping its creation in every way possible. Gods, including the christian one, are careless, cruel and demanding. As a mother I've found that my love and care for my children far exceeds God's so-called love and care. I would never treat them like God treats mankind.
@LuthAMF Can you read or not? I've been telling you worship is pointless. You've never even given it a thought why a god needs worship. Worship is not the same as love. Like obedience isn't the same as love and respect isn't the same as love. You implicate that I'm haughty above my station in regard to your god. Yet you are even haughtier for believing you can make him do what you ask for (not that you actually can). At least in ancient days the people understood that the gods are fickle and often petty. They understood the gods had to be flattered and coerced, and still you wouldn't know if they'd do what you asked for. Sin is made up after the gods didn't answer (recognize the pattern?). Something must be to blame. The gods couldn't be to blame, could they, or there would be no use for them. Whether they pray or not people get cancer. Whether they pray or not children get molested. Whether they pray or not women get beaten. But at least in the secular world you can get treatment and protection. In the secular world we figured out that you don't force a girl to marry her molester. We figured out that men fathering a child with their daughters is a criminal offence. We figured out that beating your wife is not an act of love. So yes, I stand above your god. And no, I see no use for worship. In a loving relationship is no room for worshipping one over another. Just give it a thought.
Beautifully reminded me of thought patterns I’ve had for years (since I was raised in a cult and was personally skeptical of the education). Honestly, I cried a little when watching.
UA-cam let me know that TheraminTrees has uploaded a new video. Now, while it is possible that TheraminTrees could have uploaded a truly terrible video, my implicit bias made me think I would have a rewarding and beneficial experience if I watched it. Well done to my implicit bias. You were right.
@Ben Meulink "Yes, it's logically the best option to have no bias" Not necessarily. If a bias is formed on the basis of previous experience, it can help judge a situation when there is no other information available. Keith Scott has probably watched TheraminTrees' previous videos, thus knowing of their great quality, which therefore made him find a high-quality video to watch. If he judged every video on its own, he'd have a really hard time finding out whether or not a video is great before watching it.
Oh my god, I feel like I can breath again, its like an elephant just stood up and is no longer holding me down. I am not even joking. I am going to watch this a few more times.
This is an absolute nightmare scenario for me. Bad therapists are exactly why I'm scared to seek help, but I know that I need it, or something at the very least. How am I meant to be certain in my own mental state if I can't even be certain of who's trying to help me or who's trying to manipulate me?
Thankfully, the author of the video shows that this is a minority of therapists, and that most people consider this attitude to be repugnant. Chances are, you will get a reputable therapist who has your best interests in mind. It's a tricky situation if you get a bad one though, because people who are overly self indulgent will say exactly that about any therapist, good or bad, even though their lack of progress is their own fault. So, think rationally, and seriously weigh your options if you suspect your therapist is operating dishonestly. There are many more out there, so make a switch
Just try. My first therapist was crap. If they are crap, get another one. Actually, the process itself taught me more self-empowerment and was a strange kind of therapy all it's own lmaolo Just go out and give it a good shot. I heavily recommend it
#1 - I really appreciate your scope of vision, #2 - "If I don't assume my clients have unconscious motives, then I can't work with them!" Reminds me of: When your job is to solve problems, and you run out of them, what do you do? Create them. Without them there is no work. #2.a - After a person is guided and resolves their presenting issue, 1 of 2 things can happen: EITHER -a deeper more ingrained layer is presented / usually some form of self sabotage or a blindspot; (things were going well but then X happened) OR -they resolve the core of what is stopping them from either living the life they want, or achieving what it is they want to achieve. In this way, the job is never truly over and so much more rewarding. After you help a person for what they come to you for, you can help them figure out exactly what is they want to do next. Under this lens, I don't get why a person would have to make up issues that don't exist. : ( (I am curious, if you are familiar with: HNLP, Clean Language, or Jorgen Rasmussen?)
I really liked the way you broke down the IAT. It primarily relies on cognitive heuristics based on the frequency of exposure to such categories rather than how we really feel about them. It's just a matter of which feelings our minds might conjure in the instant that we are told to make connections as quickly as possible, whether they match out outlooks or otherwise.
I got an Islam add at the start of this video... I turned away from Islam thanks to your help and the help of other UA-cam channels such as aaron ra and a couple of other scientists. I thanks y'all for lifting that pressure and weight off my shoulders. Peace and the best to all of you! :)
Love the connection u made between motives, transgressions, and biases. I've never tied them together like that. Thanks for always delivering therapeutic and insightful, fact-based content
A lot of my current mental health issues are a direct result of religion, family, school, and community teaching that attributes (that I secretly knew were true about myself) were wrong, sinful, an abomination, and deserved eternal damnation. I learned to hate myself and built a facade which I lived behind, living out the expectations of those around me, never living my own wants and desires. It is a long, hard process to learn to love yourself and learn who you really want to be after subverting your own ego for 30 years.
yes, it is after some fourtyfive years for me. just that i am not as lucky as you seem to be regarding finding an understanding therapist. mine are like the ones in this video, and i have tried more than three dozens.
@@hermione3muller674 - I'm not that lucky. Been to several dozen. The good ones that seem like they can help always end up getting refused by insurance, and the rest are the same as your experiences. I never seem to get more than a few months with the good ones before insurance refuses to pay for the good ones, so it is always a constant game of try to find another new good one that insurance will actually cover.
All my equilibrium and good moral are the result of religion and the words of Christ. If it were by the modern society moral, narcisistic personas, deviations, excesses, aberrations, etc, i would be lost long ago !
10:49 I asked for evidence, but she simply reacted like a was being a difficult client. All I wanted was a solid reason to be judged as merely an ideological problem and not as a whole human being. I soon left after experiencing suicidal urges, which they viewed as "progress".
That was my concern with his suggestion...a lot of therapists or religious types are well versed in describing the reasons their services are needed. If someone is talking to them odds are that individual is in an emotion state predisposed to believe them as well.
As someone who has had no religious indoctrination, no real doctrines to speak of, no abuse, only love, your videos are still of immense value. Both for understanding those who have had trauma, and to understand the reistance to normbreaking behaviour, and not judging people for norm breaking behaviour. 99% of the time, when someone is shamed for norm breaking behaviour (that’s not harmful) it’s to defend their own behaviour. Understanding that their attack on your behaviour is not in fact an attack, but a defense of their own makes it much easier to deal with. Both in terms of not being angry with them, and in understanding how to get them to accept the norm breaking behaviour. If you’ve never experienced this you don’t have to go as far to break from your religion, change gender or anything huge like that. Simply go vegetarian or vegan and notice how people around you, without you saying a word, starts to justify eating meat and sometimes even go as far as to state how annoying vegans are for pushing their way of life in their face. There are so many norms we are not aware of until they are broken and people freak out trying to defend the norm.
Just BRAVO on another mind blowing presentation. SOOO much info here. That opening quote about fraudsters; GENIUS. That opening group therapy mentoring session discussion: eye opening. That’s reminiscent of my many discussions with the congregation overseers related to the problems I’ve identified in the Faith of JW. So many hours were spent with the overseers attacking me, launching accusations, making assumptions, laying out red herrings etc. It was all quite chilling. Your statement, “When we learn to accept spurious reasons as a basis for our thinking, religious leaders can apply the sin label to whatever they like, and we fall unthinkingly in line”, is so powerful. The JW policy on blood transfusion is an excellent example of that. Sadly, and in my opinion, criminally, countess children have paid the ultimate price for their parents unthinkingly falling in line with this constantly changing policy. Thank you for such brilliant productions. Blessings.
Thank you so much for pointing out the flaws with the implicit bias test. I had to take it as part of a college ethics class, when I had taken a class about diversity and race relations the semester before (both classes are required at my college). What you brought up about people who are aware of stereotypes being rated as more biased made my results make much more sense. I'm not a Klan recruit waiting to happen, I had just been taught about what stereotypes exist and why they can be harmful. That and my hand-eye coordination is terrible even without swapping categories just when I'm starting to get the hang of it. XP
I can recall on my mind how I felt everytime at the end of every single one of your videos. And I just felt great. Such a clear, well-written, good-intentioned, reason&science-based talk... It makes me so happy to watch and learn through it. Thank you.
Using an umbrella is rejecting god's love in the form of the nourishing rain he provides the earth, and is attempting to separate oneself from his creation! Let the rain flow over you and accept his gifts!
Space travel is a fleshly attempt to defy the infinitude of God, and must be reconciled by looking deeply into your heart instead. Space travel is for people who are insecure about their life on earth, and who think they can escape their problems by physically moving from them. You should sort your life out before you leave.
I usually go to open-minded observant people if I want feedback about myself. Those people have really helped me to improve myself. I hate it when people give me false feedbacks as it feeds my paranoia.
A good therapist doesn't tell you what might be wrong with you throughout your sessions. A good therapist will tell you they think you're ready to leave after seemingly no progress has been made. An exceedingly bad therapist will tell you the latter as well.
@@-ss-8606 I'm not getting it either. OP is saying that a good therapist will perform a certain action... but that a bad therapist will perform that same action. Isn't that a contradiction? I think he needed a better distinction.
@@lunamaster123 I don't get it either. Hes saying this behavior is shared between both good and bad therapists. Its not necessarily a contradiction, but I'd love to know how the action fits into both categories.
This is exactly what my early studies of psychology taught me, to assume personal motives behind every action, which turned me into a very paranoid person who would over-analyze everything everyone did and falsely play the mind reader...when it turns out that a lot of actions have no real intentions behind them and a lot of people are just not thinking about what they are doing, and if they are, they aren't thinking about you when they are doing it. Very little is personal. Don't play psychic detective. Use Occams Razor - The principle that the simplest explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually the truth
It's basically a faith-based approach isn't it - looking for esoteric signs and messages. Every meaningless detail becomes potent. Clients who come to therapy for help working through problems get endlessly dumped on with the therapist's red herring fantasies. Like going to a doctor and ending up with more injuries/diseases.
The only time I was in Therapy, the therapist said "You are unconsciously flawed and that's alright, flaws make a person, positive flaws are not bad. If everyone didn't have something different... a unique flaw, then life would be boring." That made me happy to hear, that my flaws are a facet of myself and not one that defined me. But yeah, just being told you're flawed and that's not good or you're not innately good is rather ugly.
that beginning segment about the therapy course reminds me of a therapist i used to see as a teenager. when i told her about my life, and how me and my siblings had a few inside jokes, like the youngest being a clone of me because she looked exactly the way i did as a baby, she insisted i had a complex about being the "only real child" of the family. she also attributed me liking to swing at playgrounds as some deep, psychological tie to my childhood best friend, instead of logically assuming i just liked playing. there were other major issues with the way she practiced, but those always stuck out to me as odd behavior, and i feel a bit sad to know that this might just be something she was taught to do; to assume ulterior motives or deeper reasons for everything a patient says or does.
Re: comparison of non-virgins to 'used goods' -- it's not even just the condemnation of harmless sexual behavior, just think about the message that gives to people who lost their virginity by non-consensual force. They're now irrevocably 'contaminated' by something outside of their control. Horrible message for victims.
Thank you so much for this video. It's given me a lot to think about, not just with religion, but with my own mental health in therapy and as a whole with automatic assumptions of others around me. You have given me a great deal to think about when it comes to the human mind and how we deal with others around us, beliefs we share and differ on, as well as the aspect of learning how to better alter my perspectives on society around me, to further benefit my inclusivity and care for others. This has legitimately been the best vid I've seen all week. Totally sharing this.
Insightful and impressively-animated like always. Keep up the great work, my friend. A few years ago, I was a member of a dogmatic religion, but thanks to your work and the work of others, I've learnt to self-reflect and only accept things on solid rational grounds. You've made a huge change in my life, and that change naturally cascades onto my social circle in a society in dire need for some rationality and skepticism. Thank you, TT.
I worked in the mental health field for 15 years and never encountered the kind of unethical behavior you describe here. Please tell me you reported it to the appropriate licensing authorities!
Where have you been? Ever heard of Jordan Peterson? He's a big proponent of the concept of Sin. He calls it "twisting the fabric of reality" and says you ought to be terrified of it, and if you "break the rules", God help you! While showing a picture of Moses and the ten commandments.
You would be naïve to believe specific roles don't fall to corruption. Even the most beneficial concept can become a toxic idea when abused... Take social justice and the metoo movement for example. Both had virtuous intentions, but became infested by corrupt individuals that abuse them for their own personal gain regardless of who is hurt. True not every circle is touched by corruption, but that's the thing. Ignorance is something that aids the growth of corruption within outer groups. The Metoo movement made sex relations worse, social justice is abused by sociopaths, police officers going mad with power. Anything that gives you a hint of power has the capability to sow the seeds of corruption.
@TheraminTrees You are doing such important work! It looks like there is always someone ready to take advantage of our perceived flaws. Watchtower elders certainly do that.
Just keep in mind to prioritize safety first before thinking to talk back and ask for evidence. People like closet exmuslims should, or would understand why.
I have asked religious folks for evidence of their claims, and have received a lot of verbal abuse. These sort of people are nowhere near as certain of stuff as they pretend to be.
@@douglaswilliams7720 that's the exact reason. They know they are living a lie and they like it, so they get mad at you if you try to break the illusion
I just found your channel and I love how calmly you explain things. I'm an ex-mormon,now atheist,and the way you talk about these serious issues with religion is very professional and done in such a way that it is very soothing because of your nonchalance. It's still very thought provoking but I find I'm able to think calmly about the topic and about the best ways I personally can help to stop the madness religion spreading. You're a very wise man. It would be interesting to see you do a video with Telltale. He also is an atheist and also makes great videos on topics like these.
I find that its really difficult to talk to my father about religion, and this is one sticking point we conflict on. I tell my father "Humans may not be perfect, but we arent wretched or vile by nature. We care about goodness, and badness, we care about each other. " And he tells me to talk to god about it.
I’ll never forget how ridiculously my (Catholic) high school religion teacher answered me when I questioned the logical fallacy surrounding the Biblical story of Moses trying to get the Pharaoh to release him and the enslaved Jews of Egypt. In the story, Moses pleas with the Pharaoh between ten seperate plagues (one of which is God performing genocide on innocent Egyptian children) to let the Jews leave, and even though the Pharaoh comes close to letting them go on several occasions, more and more with the devastation of each plague, the Bible overtly says that God “hardened the Pharaoh’s heart” so that he’d say no every time. I asked my teacher why that was fair in any capacity... why would God want his people released but then intentionally, forcefully create more of an obstacle by making it impossible for the Pharaoh to comply? Like, the Pharaoh was a human too, a child of God, so why was his free will to answer logically and authentically taken away actively by God?? My teacher, confidently as ever, made a jumbled, contradictory word salad nothing answer, something along the lines of “Well if God hadn’t hardened the Pharaoh’s heart, then it wouldn’t have been so hard for him to let them go; God was simply testing the Pharaoh’s true character by not letting him free the slaves so easily... like... what?!? I still think about that a lot. The most disrespectful part about answers like that is that it actively, unquestioningly commands you to not think or question the motives of God. So as a high schooler talking with my 50-something-year-old teacher, of course I felt like I had to buy that answer to be a good Catholic. It would have been inappropriate and a taboo to continue civilly debating with her in front of the class. After all, she spoke with such certainty, I must be the one who doesn’t understand. Needless to say, years later, I can recognize it for the bullshit absurd nonsense that it is. It’s brain-washing. It’s damaging. It’s abusive, and wholly indicative of an abusive environment/lifestyle. Ugh
Hi Theramin. Just in case you missed my reply on my channel: "Great to hear from you my friend. Ex-Muslim is fine. I don't like labels but Ex-Muslim is unavoidable and it is after all helpful in breaking the taboo on leaving Islam. Thank you. I am honoured."
My dad was a pastor and my mom was a religious therapist. It’s only been recently I’ve been able to relearn that I am not fundamentally flawed and it only sprouted after I gave myself the unconditional love I deserved growing up.
I deeply appreciate the videos youre creating. The approach you have to solving these kinds of problems is extremely refreshing in its absolute honesty, thank you.
These kinds of manipulations aren't limited to religion and its illegitimate child, the mental health complex. You can see it pervading all of society on every level, particularly politics, the law, and class relations, especially in how "decent society" talks about and treats the poor.
I see it every day where I work. The rich elites consider everyone not an elite to be a parasite. They made the worst working conditions known to mankind and getting written up or fired often means you didn't have the right beliefs or friends, has nothing to do with ability. Old Klingon saying sums this up perfectly: "Klingons don't go to Rura Pente"
Only sexual activity that should be called bad is cheating. You make a promise to someone that you are exclusive, and instead of simply breaking up with them first to go after the new person you sneak around their back. While the cheated may blame the cheater they also often blame themself, thinking that if they were better in some way then they would not have been cheated on. If they had nothing wrong with them this causes terrible psychological harm since they are now searching for problems that do not exist. They also take a major blow to their ability to trust.
I discovered your channel by accident. I am so grateful for them. Thanks to you, I started to reexamine things that I have experienced due to my involvement in Catholic Church. Even though I have been an atheist for five years, I still can feel the consequences of me being religious - especially how my sexuality and self image is still warped because of childhood indoctrination. Thank you for everything. What you do is very important and needed. I hope I have discovered your channel when I was in my early teens...
True! Furthermore, you could score “low biased” on IAT and still support policies, laws, and groups that harm/discriminate. Even after getting a degree in Ethnic Studies, I’m still finding myself experiencing biased thoughts that I step back and evaluate the truth and use of it? like the existence biases themselves are not what makes a person immoral (though moral action requires an analysis of beliefs and biases). Nor is working through biases a one stop check to see if you are or aren’t; its what ones do we have? Against whom? To what extent? How does it manifest? What informed this perspective? What might the person involved in this bias think of said bias? And its a constant flow of evaluation and inquiry, because our biases can change. And you often don’t find out what they are until you interact across identity & ideological boundaries. Also, the denial of existing biases in favor of the delusion of purity (pursuit of “wokeness”), or as a response to shaming (that comes from false equivalencies in my field “silence is violence”) also seem to inhibit the ability to address biases directly because in effort to not be seen as immoral people will virtual signal or perform activism, which is later used as evidence of their ‘nonbias’ or as gaslighting technique against someone discussing the discrimination they experienced from that person. Or some parade behind the mask of understanding and caring in public, but never has any biases challenged bc they have effectively convinced people that they dont have any biases. By nature of concepts presented in my degree namely looking into labour, land, and legal histories (which are the context and mother of the current issues) and just how deep white supremacy runs in the creation of this settler nation, I wouldnt go so far to say the existence of unconscious biases in everyone is a myth, rather that the purist political framing of them as sin (not all biases are even bad) or their presence equating the person as evil is the myth. Idk I kinda think the construct of purity is the root of all ‘evil’. Especially when you see that Race, Caste, Sexual Orientation, nationalism etc. all have been constructed with the dominant group considered the most “pure”.
"Because you're perfect just the way you are" Nice idea in theory, but in practice, we call that "narcissism". People have a hard time admitting their own flaws. And nobody's perfect anyways. When you get complacent about your flaws is when the real danger sets in, and a lot of times things that might seem harmless on the surface have hidden pitfalls lurking in the background independent of stigma.
Yep, complacency over our flaws doesn't set us up for anything good. Don't know where the "Because you're perfect just the way you are" quote comes from, but yes - false idealising is of course just as much a distorted practice as false pathologising. Whatever kind of comments come our way, positive or negative, it's useful to ask 'Is that true?'
@@TheraminTrees Wasn't really a quote, per se, but rather a natural follow up to the "Don't let anyone tell you you're flawed" philosophy you seemed to be espousing throughout this video. That whole huge self-esteem movement that was really popular a few decades ago which everyone blames for ruining Millenials, you know? I assumed you were subscribed to the notion of "If it doesn't bother you it's not a problem," which I have seen getting championed a lot in the age of social justice, but I'm glad to hear that's not the case. The question is drawing the line between reading too deeply and addressing issues that we cannot recognize as issues without either a lot of introspection or therapy. I also wanted to say that I believe the underlying purpose behind the social pressures and stigma you called out in the video are all societal responses to behaviours whose harm isn't consistent or immediately obvious. For example, even though casual sex isn't usually harmful to the individual, no one can deny that sex can be an intensely emotional interpersonal experience, and that always carries the risk of strong emotional reactions that aren't always going to be reciprocated. If it was an act truly incapable of harm, rape wouldn't be such a horrific and unforgivable crime. It makes sense why people would therefore invent a more immediate harm to compensate for the fact that such behaviour has random or subtle consequences. I feel it is too harsh to condemn insitutions and ideologies that create artificial consequences as being controlling and manipulative- I don't think, in most cases, it comes from a place of malice. I think most of the time these practices are shunned for reasons that make perfect sense from a larger-picture perspective, even if it does seem cruel or bigoted on the individual level.
I stated very clearly that when we're given evidence of flaws and harm, we have something to explore. The video made a repeated distinction between substantiated allegations, which do warrant reflection, and non-substantiated allegations, which don't. There's absolutely no hint of me arguing for a blanket dismissal of all allegations of flaws - that would be ridiculous. Negotiating sex with all its complexity is part of being an adult. Of course the emotional stakes can feel very high for some individuals - and I think it's extremely beneficial to discuss the kinds of complexities, particularly unexpected ones, that sexual experiences can throw up. The answer - as is so often the case - is to talk frankly and honestly about all this stuff: including all the emotional and physical risks and all the variations and preferences. Stigma is a great way of shutting down all of that important discussion - leaving people isolated and uninformed. Ironically, it's the pedalling of stigma itself that directly contributes to all the problems it's claimed to protect against - by keeping people in fear and ignorance. We have an increased capacity to make more responsible choices when we educate ourselves.
@@TheraminTrees That's very true, but nuanced discussion isn't a practical solution for society-level issues. The fact is, a lot of people simply don't want to talk about these things. And in the abscence of that, people are going to rely on conditioning methods to control potential threats to interpersonal relationships. It's a defense mechanism, only on the level of the collective unconscious. And of course, like all psychological defense mechanisms, it can cause a lot of issues when inappropriately or excessively used. That doesn't mean the mechanism is a bad mechanism or is "broken"- it's just a crude and simple solution to a complex problem.
Education is a very practical part of the solution - these matters are rarely simple; solutions are often multifactorial. If a lot of people don't want to talk about these things, hey, that's up to them - but their wilful ignorance shouldn't impact on others who do want discussion. Of course what's often the case is that it isn't just about individuals deciding they don't want to talk about these issues themselves - it's often about their desire to stop other people talking about them.
hey man i love this vid a lot especially the opening. I at one point assumed people had an ulterior motive, without even realizing that not everything has to have or does have a hidden meaning in them. Which is what I always try to find in people! I feel stupid for thinking that but now I can do better so thank you
*As a closeted Ex-Muslim who just came home from a .. 'very lovely, peaceful and not crazy' lecture at a mosque, listening to the soothing voice and logical sense in this video calms me greatly. Instant subscribe from me lol*
Thanks. It's been hugely heartening to see a groundswell of ex-Muslim voices emerging in recent years. The risk of speaking up can be high but that risk is being spread by more voices. I'll be promoting some great ex-Muslim UA-cam channels soon.
@@TheraminTrees No need for thanks tbh. Unfortunately, it's still a bit too dangerous to openly state one is an Ex-Muslim (as you can tell from the crappy filters i'm using in my selfie in a foolish attempt to hide my identity), but hopefully one day.. genuine and honest individuals will come together to stand for freedom of speech.... One day xD
If the said religious mentor doesn't recognise the difference between a cupcake and a person, when he's looking for a sexual outlet, I would politely refuse any dinner invitation, that's for sure.
My ex-girlfriend was a counsellor. One day, she attended a training course in which she and her fellow students were “taught” that they were all unconsciously racist and that they needed to acknowledge this when working with BAME clients. They were shown a video showing how they were supposed to act. In this video, an Asian woman came to speak to a white therapist about a problem that had nothing to do with race. At the outset, the therapist made a point of saying to the client that he acknowledged that he was racist. This made the client uncomfortable as the idea that he might be racist had not even occurred to her and his admission that he was “racist” came out of the blue and was not relevant to her problem. But still, the audience applauded.
Things like your example in the beginning are what leads to Psychology being looked down on by many scientists and dismissed as a "soft science" so often.
That isn't the concept of sin in Christianity. Paul for example executed Christians in mass numbers. He turned away from his actions and seek forgiveness. I'm a non-believer in anything. This one makes sense to me. When you make a mistake and everyone does how do you say you're sorry? It's impossible to fix the mistake it's been done. To move on with your life and not dwell on it you need to wash your sin from you. Atheists and agnostics can only ignore those mistakes. Christians have a way to wash their mistakes if all actions are turned away from. This seems logical to me. i wish I believed then I could wash my mistakes.
@@OxAO The whole point of the Jesus myth is that an innocent (Jesus) takes the punishment due the guilty (sinners)...and that's suppose to be justice. Therefore, Christians who say "there's no justice in punishing one person for the sins of others"...undermine the foundation of their religious mythos.
@@TheHigherVoltage I agree with you if that was all there was to it. It isn't. Simple example: talking to my wife in the proper context of what it means: "I'm sorry honey I was careless and broke your moms vase. I will try to be less careless" "god forgive me" (for strict interpretation and washing of sin) In your example by itself I would tell my wife "God forgave my carelessness when I broke your moms vase. God forgave me. we're good." (there is only washing of sin) Notice the difference. "turned away from my actions and seek forgiveness from all those that where involved" Sorry. That statement by itself makes no sense at all and it is a complete miss understanding of what it means.
@@OxAO You example isn't what Christian doctrine teaches, which is : - every sin, no matter how great or small, is to be punished. - either the sinner (the guilty) pay for their sins, or Jesus does (an innocent) You asking your wife for forgiveness for busting her mom's vase is not good enough. Someone has to be punished for the crime. There is no simple 'washing of sins'. Someone has to be punished for each and every sin committed in Christian doctrine. You're skipping over the entire purpose of Jesus being murdered in the mythology.
My highschool English class had to take the unconscious bias test among others once. Interestingly enough, the reliability and the disclaimer weren't mentioned by my teacher.
Religious indoctrination really made me believe I was a born sinner and inherently flawed as a kid, I promise to myself I'll never subject my children to such nonsense. PS this channel is criminally underrated
A I As far as original sin goes, everybody is guilty of wrongdoing. We all know that. That doesn’t mean you need hate yourself or fight fearfully to make it up to God. That’s what Christianity’s concept of forgiveness is all about. We are all guilty, we all know that, but God forgives it all if we just humble ourselves, confess it to Him, and ask forgiveness.
@@spinecho609 Hello. Naturally, I disagree, and please allow me to explain some of the reasons why. Firstly, by looking down on this form of "manipulation," you're recognizing a system of morality in that manipulating others is wrong. As such, if you've ever manipulated someone in some way, you have committed a wrong action and are "guilty." As humans, we naturally have standards of behavior in our communities, and we naturally violate those very standards of behavior. I would argue that, whether you are religious or not, we humans are indeed fundamentally guilty. Secondly, "manipulation" is a very loaded word. If we use that word lightly, we could call any form of external motivation a form of "manipulation." Human society is built on training people into proper behaviors, usually with external motivators, in particular at our earliest ages. Is teaching children values and cohesive behaviors not a good thing? Thirdly, regardless of my manipulation into my thinking or lack thereof, I have done things that I choose to recognize as being wrong things. I imagine you too choose to recognize that some of your own actions committed in the past have been morally bad things to do. If that is indeed the case, we're just arguing semantics. Everybody has chosen to do bad things at some stage of their life, big or small. I look forward to reading your response my friend. :)
Thank you so much for talking about this whole implicit bias nonsense! It is becoming increasingly pervasive in my work place and it is incredibly toxic for human interactions!
We simply are our ideas, when these go wrong, we blame ourselves in some way, through our poor intelligence (intelligence is a concept), through our psychology (the concept of psychology is an interesting one, it helps ideas analyze ideas), through metaphysics (some kind supernatural realm working on us). We blame anything but the ideas, because ideas are like computer code and such code lives in the virtual space we call "mind", ideas perpetuate themselves, usually pushing away those that interfere with its space and perpetuation (cultures and counter cultures). If replaced, another idea that conforms to the new "vision" will take its place, perpetuating itself.
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The situation described at the start of the video reminded me of a joke about why you can't win with some therapists:
* If you're always late, you're irresponsible
* If you're always early, you're insecure
* If you're always exactly on time, you're obsessive
* If you're sometimes one, sometimes the other -- you're unstable
If you are all of these you are unreliable, inconsistent, and lack character.
A good therapist adapts to the person and learns things about their patients, I know you said it's a joke but there are some shitty ones out there
😂
I grew up in the charismatic evangelical church, when I was trying to deal with issues I was frequently told that I was demon possessed. Turns out that I simply have autism. I’m so glad I got out when I did.
All those old demons, autism, asthma, mumps, smallpox, depression, etc., can be dealt with so much more effectively now. I too am glad you got out. Pity so many are still trapped, and trapping others believing they're helping.
That sounds like the Pentacostals who blame everything on the devil or, “that’s of the devil”. The ones I met and knew did more harm to people than good because of their misjudging others and then labeling them rebellious/unsubmissive if they didn’t obey the headship. Yuk 🤮🤮
@@bluetickbeagles116 Don't forget the ones "operating in the gifts". "I bind that spirit of lying..."
Oh come on! This isn't the Third World! No-one told you that unless you believed it yourself! Btw blaming others for your departure from the Church is inappropriate. Take ownership and blame yourself.
Anonymous Libertarian You don’t know what those perverts did to me. Shut the f-ck up
What a nightmare of a class to attend. They were more interested in manipulating patients for sessions than being intellectually honest.
Hey Truvelocity ;8) Yep, it was quite an eye-opener. Ticked a fair number of 'high control group' boxes.
@@TheraminTrees Good thing you were there to speak up. Didn't seem like anyone else felt comfortable doing so.
Shout-out to that third of the class that left the sessions
That’s the way you are trained. Usually, when you are at the University you are still a young guy believing all what is told. Besides, many university curriculum are useless, once you graduated you are on your own with so much theory and no technical and practical therapeutic skills.
@@seancodd6274 Scientology also believes that when bad things happen to you like your train being late it's always because of bad things you've done or secrets you're keeping. It sounds really like this class was a Scientology front group.
Excellent video.
What pains me most about the "used chewing gum" analogy that youth pastors apply is that, with any large gathering of teenagers, it's a statistic certainty that some of them were abused. On top of that trauma is now added the shame and self-loathing that comes with this literal demonization of sexuality. This lunacy has to stop.
Also, I completely agree that the 'implicit bias' tests are pseudo-scientific nonsense.
The compounded shame you've highlighted there brings a whole other level of nausea doesn't it.
There is another reason the cupcake test doesn't work. We would eat the licked cupcake if 1. We know the person who did it is healthy and 2. We don't like frosting anyway. If everyone in a family threw out all the food that has been mildly licked such as kids who don't eat their vegetables or too full, our food waste would go up, hence leftover nights. Of course, no one would consume spoiled goods if it could be proven how it's spoiled, such as the person is both unknown to us and sick or the food is expired or have good reason to suspect its contaminated.
Implicit associations are a thing, but the conclusions that some derive from the tests are totally inappropriate. Simply because you have unconsciously associated two things (fat & bad) doesn't mean you treat fat people poorly.
Edit: And he said the same thing in the video. Nice that someone is trying to clear it up.
Makes me sick.
Pointless shame is most of the reason young people hesitate to report abuse of a sexual nature.
And it’s not limited to an irrational anxiety in their conditioned minds; there’s rational apprehension about the additional long-term humiliation that they will receive from their community and family if they come out about having been “tainted.”
Also they risk being blamed or denied as a liar, and may face retaliation.
So it makes sense why people in most cultures may decide emotionally or intelligently that it’s not worth the risks to “confess” to being raped.
been there, done that...
It is even more fun when the perpetrator is of the same sex.
If you spend your whole life fearing and obeying authority you'll never become a real adult. It's amazing to me when parents want their children to be less free and less experienced than they were. I've heard so many stories of Mormons who've reached the marriage bed with bizarre, almost childlike understanding of sex. That's dangerous!
ik very dangerous and ive noticed creeps in utah seem to br more likely to take advantage of mormon girls becuse they dont understand how to be safe
What is actually dangerous is allowing your children far too much "freedom" and less guidance and structure. After all "being an adult" requires self-control - which is precisely what obeying authority instills.
@@THXx1138 Obeying authority does not teach Self control or Self knowledge.
In fact, if we think in terms of Cause and Effect where the Self is Cause and the Ego is Effect, then it is the Ego which gets molded by obeying authority.
To have Self knowledge you must realize the Ego is your "public face" and that is different than the Self.
Always ask:
"Which comes first the Self or the Ego?"
To return from Ego (illusion) back to Self knowledge means you "repent".
Repent means to "crawl back".
So the child that recognizes what is the Self and sees how that compares to their Ego identity has Self knowledge.
The slave mentality is where you are 100% Ego and essentially an NPC obeying preprogrammed directives.
The free will is the Self knowledge in action.
The Self is free, the Ego is a slave.
Cause and Effect.
Eric Linz True, you are absolutely right.
Thing is, some people (and all actual children) can’t be free because they aren’t competent enough to run their own lives. No one trusts a 10 year old kid to do his/her homework and go to a job and pay bills, that’s why parents are involved- religion was aimed at being the parent for those who needed it. For instance, the person who got his girlfriend pregnant in high school is encouraged to step up and take responsibility- where do you think that came from? Could it possibly be religion?
@@orppranator5230 That's not a good example because in the old days people got married shortly after puberty.
To risk a pregnancy back then when marriage was so near was just foolish.
In our current situation where women erode their souls by riding the "Cock Carousel" for two decades it leaves the women incapable of establishing a pair bond.
Also, by 35 years old a woman often is losing her ability to have children as her fertility is in rapid decline heading towards menopause.
Ideally women have children around the age of 18 which is "peak fertility" for women and usually when their health is the best.
And these days you can abort at any time... even after birth if you are secretive about it. (very profitable because the parts are very $$$)
"If I don't assume my clients have unconscious motives, I can't work with them".
Is a just a long way of saying: "I shouldn't be a therapist"
This type of thinking used to be entirely normal among doctors dealing with mental health. So much abuse.
It's great that we can finally put it to rest and call out the people who cling to it
@@puppieslovies I seriously don't get how this many people can be convinced that literally making stuff up is sound practice.
“As therapists, we shouldn’t diagnose our patients with imaginary disorders.”
“Oh yeah? Then there’s something wrong with you. You should see a therapist.”
“. . .”
'If I don't assume my client has unconscious motives, I can't work with them.'
Thennn... You shouldn't be a therapist.
The pure relief I felt when you said that the train might have, in fact, been late... because as soon as you posited the scenario of the leader asking for extrapolation about the client's lateness, I became anxious and worried and angry and scared. This kind of thing has happened to me so many times, and it makes you feel so confused and stressed and dislocated... childhood was a nightmare on this score, thank GOD for survival. Obviously, it's still enough of a problem to cause me a visceral reaction to a calmly related exemplary tale but I really, really appreciate you for putting this across, so I could experience another person having the same thought process (and the same nonsensical feedback). It's all well and good to see it in fiction, but the fictional aspect is easily exploited by an unsure mind, especially one that is fighting negative external pressures. Fuck, I'm glad my vocabulary has expanded too, because I was working with maybe forty thousand less words when this kind of thing started happening to me, at a guess.
Thanks, mate. For real.
Back to the 3 minute mark...
Edit: Upon rereading, my very colloquial use of God as an exclamation might give an impression that I am emphatically religious. I am not. I'm cool with the cool, as long as you're loving and caring, no exploitation or bigotry, absolutely rock on.
And, just to add to the comment stats, yep, neurodiverse AF (ie x 3 - AuDHD/C-PTSD)
Totally understand that reaction you describe. What that tutor was proposing was an absolute abuse. I can only imagine how many clients she gaslighted with her psychobabble in her time. From her little outburst, it was clear she wasn't used to getting pushback.
Thanks I needed this. Finally someone says how flawed the psychology industry is. Because of a diagnosis I got as a child my life got turned upside down. Adults told me ,a 6-year-old back then, that there were so many things wrong with me. Some even said I was cursed. Even some of my positive traits were viewed as symptoms and flaws. I started to hate myself for my "curse". Around the age of 12 I managed to see through their bullshit. My teacher did not like that and kept reminding me of my "flaws" on a weekly basis. Eventually I told her "Why are you still trying? Do you really not realise that there is no way to convince me?" After that I left the psychological "treatment" world for good.
I just turned 21 now and nowadays I am blessed with a good education, friends and a lovely boyfriend. Some damage is still there though. I am still very self aware, scared of job discrimination and sometimes I feel inferior compared to others. But I am working on that.
The "therapy" I had is child abuse disguised as help. I hope that these horrible kinds of "therapy" will be exposed one day. I also hope that one day there will be an clear vision of the human mind so that society knows exactly what to do when someone needs an actual treatment.
Aliceintherosegarden Exactly! I find that therapists are so incompetent and devoid of empathy themselves. They try to appear like experts by trowing labels and psychobabble around just to boost their egos, yet, they cause real harm by pathologizing the patient with so called faults they don’t have. Therapists are the defective ones and live in constant denial and a sense of superiority.
Aliceintherosegarden I can relate. I was diagnosed bipolar when I was 6. It was hammered into me that I couldn’t trust my own thoughts and feelings ever.
I feel the same way having been tossed into therapy for a long time after my parents divorced. I don’t remember feeling psychologically affected in any significant way over the event, and yet I was constantly shoved into a therapist’s office again and again until I began to actually develop problems, all because they assumed that because my parents had just divorced I must’ve been in emotional shambles.
"I can't work with my clients if I don't assume they have unconscious motives"
Who's the therapist in that situation?
Mine.
I do not understand what 'mine' means in this context.
@@codehorse8843 They're implying that their therapist is biased and motivated by self-interest.
Isn’t that a direct quote of Jordan Peterson.
It could also just be a reference to TheraminTrees as their therapist and the actual therapist in that situation.
I remember taking an IAT test in a psych course and being really angry when it said I had a bias against black people because the test consisted of two parts, the first being 'hit the right key when you see a white person and the left key for a black person' and the second 'hit the right key when you see a good/happy facial expression, and the left key for a bad/angry expression'. They TRAINED ME to associate left with dark skin, then accused me of being racist when they suddenly made the left key the 'bad' one!!
ye wtf
This is what is called gaslighting, ie trying to trick you into making yourself look bad, especially with a defect you don’t have.
These "imaginary defects" lead to very real defects that I've been spending years on undoing. It's quite awkward to have to explain to others than certain insecurities actually stem from a therapist seen in my early teenage years.
Real conversation is therapy. I've made huge leaps in conversation, and seen sentiments change in those with "real therapists." Therapists are humans and flawed, and to think they're magic is an issue that lets bad therapists carry weight.
Personally, I think if a therapist can't possibly believe that a client could be telling the truth about their motives, feelings, or experiences, that therapist either needs therapy and/or a vacation before they become too cynical and burnt out to be effective as a therapist!
WTF! They need to be confined for about six months in a mental hospital where ALL the staff has that same cray Cray disrespectful attitude toward them.
@@dmkuchins6646 cruel and unusual punishment is immoral.
@@drakep.5857 And overwhelmingly ineffective. Punishing them would teach them nothing, and the problem would persist.
They were probably unconsciously thinking about cigars.
Or they should just not be therapists in the first place.
What I like About buddhism and in a way even took from it is the idea of "perfection in imperfection".
You can improve yourself, others, the world around you, but there is no way you are gonna be at Peace with it if you are not willing to accept that there is no way for Things not to be flawed.
secular postmodernist thought succeeds religious-based dogma in the realm of philosophy. ideas of relativism and skepticism are in every way intellectually superior to objectivism and the confines of dogma. thoughts and ideas should be like a liquid, changing shape to fit the container of perceived reality. the unnerving part about true skepticism is that our minds can't always handle it. we succumb very easily to emotional appeals. we identify with facts causing offense when they are disputed. even the most brilliant minds in human history were no stranger to the flaws of our mind. it's hardly a comfortable thought, but it's so important to acknowledge.
@@stereoraptor6940 So what do you say to the charges that Plato levied against relativism and skepticism? That they are self-defeating? If epistemic relativism is true, then it can only be true, within a certain system, within a certain culture, within a certain historical epoch, or within the mind of certain individuals, depending on how you define your version of relativism. If Skepticism is true, then either it is also false, or there is no way for anyone to actually know that it is true, depending on how you define skepticism. If knowledge is impossible, then most, if not all, of what we talk about is nonsensical.
Buddahism seems like the best out of all the major religions. Same as Shinto.
@@Sewblon it would apply if someone said skepticism is always true, as if it was an absolute. But I think many people advocating for us to be more skeptical dont believe that.
It's more about how siepticism is one of the more useful tools to evaluate authenticity of things. It can detach us from problems we may be blind to in things we would like to be true
The thing is, what Plato says about skepticism could also be applied to logical thought as a whole. In short, it seems like a false dichotomy. The logic only applies if you shorten the scope to a concept either being completely true or completely false, with no grey zone in between.
@@nathanbruce1992 "The thing is, what Plato says about skepticism could also be applied to logical thought as a whole." Your thesis shocks and intrigues me. Please elaborate.
Pick any random activity. Singing. Painting. Using umbrellas. Space travel. Label it a sin, and notice how easy it is to find spurious reasons to condemn it.
I mean it was only a generation ago when dancing was a sin, Pokémon taught the lies if evolution, and table top games like DnD were satanic summoning rituals. So ya
Are you suggesting condemning things should not be considered bad?
@@ntrlnwrmz well, condeming completely natural and innocent things *is* bad... that's what I get from the comment.
@@Sasha_fox314 yes you're right and so is the original comment, I misunderstood and meant to say that, it's not a bad thing to condemn evil things. In my book
@@ntrlnwrmz now the thing is, what do you define as evil?
That story about the therapist is EXACTLY how my dad treated me throughout my childhood. Every mistake I made had to be because I secretly wanted to spite him or didn't really want to succeed. I still fall into that way of thinking sometimes. It's so hard to break out of especially since he's not the only person who's done it.
There was this interesting point raised during one of Alan Watts lectures, wherein he pointed out the dangers of therapists replacing the soothsayers and priests of old.
Instead of interpreting the will of the gods, now interpreting the unconscious.
A good therapist is a blessing, but the opposite is really dangerous. Sadly, most people are at a disadvantageous position due to asymmetrical information of the parties involved and can't distinguish the charlatans from the genuine thing.
Edit: spelling (an/a)
I’ve been watching your videos for a few months and just realized your qualifications from this video. I’m not sure how much your education helped you deliver ideas so well, but I’ve always admired how you can explain these ideas so well and simply. Thank you
I've noticed a very bizarre tendency even among standard medical staff to assume things are psychological even when there is evidence to the contrary. This can be potentially fatal. In my own experience, I have a general tendency towards upper respiratory infections due to a narrow esophagus which resulted from scarlet fever as a child. Unfortunately, this narrow esophagus problem means I can't breathe through my nose so I'm prone to post nasal drip and inflammation which means that when I have an upper respiratory infection any tests tends to show up negative even when symptoms are visibly present.
Now, this is all very well established in the medical history, but this one time I went to the emergency room due to feelings of drowning while I'm sleeping. The doctor believed it was just a dream and was going to prescribe an anti-inflammatory at best. I insisted on getting an x-ray based on my medical history and my insurance would pay for it, he eventually relented and while waiting for the results to get back was going on about how he expected to find nothing until he saw the X-ray and he could see the spots in my lung. I had bacterial pneumonia. There was no doubt at that point so an antibiotic was prescribed. That was just one incident and even though these cases keep happening medical professionals seem to be reluctant to refer to the patient's own medical history, rather they rely entirely on assumptions when a patient doesn't fit a particular mold.
I have suffered terrible insomnia and so many doctors refuse to accept when I say "No I'm not anxious, I'm very calm at night time, I just can't fall asleep." They ask the same question ten different ways hoping I'll admit to some anxiety or psychological flaw, when no, that's not the issue, I WISH it was that simple. I wish I could just meditate or go to therapy or take anxiety meds and that would fix my sleep troubles, but it just isn't so. I've TRIED all those things, they didn't work because they targeted an issue I DON'T have. Ughhhh.
@@SuperPrettyPink101 yeah, I mean, how hard is it to get a medical professional to believe in standard medical knowledge? It's as if they never heard of the Circadian rhythm, and how a variety of external factors can influence that. The color of light, proximity to electromagnetic fields, noise level, overall Comfort, Etc. Environment is the first thing that should be looked into under the circumstances.
For you, I would suggest you try a few tests to determine your environmental cause.
1.) Does your environment have any blue lights? Most electronics these days do. Eliminate sources of blue light by putting electrical tape over those various blue LED and get a blue light filter for your smart phone. Use full spectrum bulbs during the day, but at night go for warmer wavelengths. Minimize television and artificial light exposure for a few days to see if it improves matters.
2.) To test against EM fields, or individual sensitivity to otherwise safe levels, you can get an EM shielded blanket to cover your head in. Alternatively, a foil hat really can help disrupt EM fields, but won't be as effective considering the exposed areas.
3.) Sounds are easier to diagnose, but background noises can have frequencies that disrupt sleep as well. Pay attention to any source of distraction in your environment and try finding silence.
Of course, some people are just wired for a different schedule. It's possible that your own rhythm once you to sleep during the day and be awake at night. If that's the case, it might be better for you to choose a line of work that would allow you to sleep during the day.
Yeah i noticed a pretty strong trend, among several physicians and dont know why, it could be interesting to get some investigations into that issue. I have not gotten any progress on my conditions over 10-12 years but i have found ways to relieve it greatly by myself sometimes having to ignore advice or even do the opposite because i know these advices are not helping me but hurting me instead (because i/we tried them at length before), but it is hard to get them to listen.
Doctors are trained to expect the worst until further proof can be found. This way, there are less unnecessary tests and less false positives that may lead to pointless complications in the future. This is effective in the majority of cases that are not obvious emergencies since the problem's root can be scouted over a period of time, but as your and many other stories demonstrate, this is not always the case. This is what might cause the common experiance of not being able to get through to the doctor. If you encounter this issue again, ask the doctor what they would tell their loved ones to do if there was the possibility of future unecessary complicaitons if treatment is refused.
It can't be that you're physically ill, it has to be that you're insane...
"You have to assume things about the motives of your clients!"
"No you don't."
"Now class, what can we assume about the motive of the guy who disagrees?"
TheraminTrees!
Holy Koolaid oh hello. I think you should follow up with this. Some facts and personal experience, given that you used to be part of the cult.
Indeed....indeed.🧐
Holy Koolaid.... what a great name!
@@kalmialow1272 if you've never heard of him you should check out his channel. Its guuuud.
Theramin Tries
The Tutor for the begining sounds like she might be more in the need of therapy than her clients...The way she responds to your arguments sounds pretty disturbing....
I was briefly engaged to the eldest daughter of George, a well-respected and sagacious therapist. Several times he "tested" me with questions that I thought were shallow attempts to establish my intelligence and other "credentials." He asked me what I thought of a paper he was presenting to his students. I was initially bewildered but concluded that he was assessing me so I barely responded. On another occasion he said that his daughter's lovers were invariably "needy." I now believe that his daughter created needy men, with her own manipulative come-hither and then rejecting confusing behaviour. She was a parasite and he an arrogant twat in need of more navel-gazing and reflection. I sometimes throw the fact that Psychiatrists, Therapists, Psychologists, Counsellors etc have imperfect lives into the conversation.
@@Longtack55 Hope you got the flock out of Dodge quickly once you came to a few of these realizations?
Dude, not that I'm in _need_ of a therapist or anything, but hearing the stories you share of other therapists, if I was in need of a therapist, I would be SO THANKFUL to stumble upon you as my choice. If you take clients I hope they are very happy and satisfied.
I feel like everyone should have a good therapist... Especially most therapists.
@@SamN234 Who do those therapists talk to though?
Therapy has been feminized, of you're not a woman, you would be better helped by how mens therapy, working, hobby, or such.
@@SamN234 the current methods of therapy help women more than men. Women find talking openly about their problems to be therapeutic. Men find hobbies/work to be therapeutic, you can see this as so many men bond and talk about their life to their friends over a video game, sports, working on something. This is what works for men but therapy itself has became feminized, co'opted by feminism.
You can see a similar thing to how young boys are treated at school. These boys have energy and want to play playfight (like most young mammals do), be loud, rowdy, but the golden standard according to many teachers nowadays (even when I was in school) was the calmer, easier to handle young girls. The boys are expected to act like young girls, held to that golden female standard, scolded fir being young boys (like how one teacher freaked out and called the cops on a young boy drew a stick figure with a gun, I was drawing sick men killing each other like a massive video game forover a decade as a kid). Anywaaaays, the boys are punished fir not being like their female counterparts and if that's still an issue they drug the young boys with xanax so they sit still and shut up, rather than say extend recess (which has been shortened over and over again across the western world) so the young boys can expend that youthful energy healthily. So like with therapy, the school system has been feminized and thusly they value only the female standard of behavior and go so far as to drug the young boys for years. Same as for homework and attendance being part of a grade, just bullshit so women would stop failing as women do worse on tests overall compared to men, the way grades are done now is so you wouldnt fall behind for simply being the busy workerbee, otay disgusting imo as tests ARE THE PROOF you actually learned something from the class, where as homework (normally being 70% of the total grade) is just busywork, you don't need to practice the same thing over and over again if you understand it already, like how plants are green cause of thr chemical chlorophyll and the light it reflects is green, this you see it as green... like how long do I gotta explain it before we all understand it? Plants are green cause chlorophyll.
These two systems amongst others have been influenced and infested with feminists and their ideals, changing every they were supposed to be, into what can it do to benefit feminism.
@@elgatochurro
If becoming a therapist was as simple as having a conversation or listening to a person problems it wouldn't require years of training.
A therapist uses 'conversations' to find out the 'flaws' in a person way of thinking and then proceeds to find how best to tackle these flaws.
I'm no professional on the subject but if you are going to try and prove that something as complicated as therapy is sexist then you need to have a basic understanding of what you are talking about.
7:37
In fact in Judaism, it IS consider a sin to open umbrella or to paint, if you do it on the Shabbat,
it is also a sin to sing for women if any man is present.
So yeah, EVERYTHING can be consider a 'sin', and it kind of already is.
Do you ever wonder why some of such things were declared as sinful?
wait really? That's interesting. Ridiculous, but interesting.
"Working" in general is considered a sin, as Shabbat is a day of rest.
Ugh, THANK YOU for calling out that ridiculous IAT test!
I find the existence of such quit shocking. Associations are clearly not personal. I can associate being old with agony, but out of the reality, and not in wanting the old to be in agony.
@@drax325 Not only that, but doesn't necessarily even measure a real association. For example, it could depend on which type of pairing is done first or which is done last. Both of those could make reaction times faster or slower depending on the specifics. AND there is the fact that it's asking you to separate people into two groups in the first place. If your usual mode of operating is to ignore any such difference, here they are specifically asking you to not ignore it, thus purposely introducing biases into the test. It is just a horribly unreliable test all around. And I hate that there are some places that foolishly use it like it has any weight.
@@watcherfox9698 The test is flawed, but not for that reason. You say it could "depend on which type of pairing is done first or which is done last", but why? Because those pairings can create an association that wasn't there before. It's still a clever way to tease out mental associations, but as the video described, that's all it does -- it finds out what stereotypes we're familiar with, what associations we're aware of even if we don't approve of them or act on them.
The test also doesn't require you to "ignore any such difference [in the two groups]" nor does it "ask you to not ignore it". Either you haven't taken the test or you don't remember it.
There are mental associations we have that will naturally make you quicker at pairing concepts. If I ask you to click a button when you see a "primary color" and another when you see a "secondary color", you'll find it extremely easy because you've already categorized them. If I ask you to click when you see a "primary color" or a "good" word, it won't be any easier or harder than clicking when you see a "primary color" or a "bad" word because you have no prior association with primary colors as being either good or bad. The slowing comes from the same thing we see in a Stroop test where you have to fight an association that you already hold, and it works in testing these associations in exactly the same way that the Stroop test does. The test doesn't ask you to "ignore any difference" or to "not ignore any difference" just as the Stroop test doesn't, because it isn't necessary for the test to work.
@@Starcrash6984 But when measuring response times. They need to be able to differentiate, reading speed, no previous bias, and resistance. And it is worse if they have repeat questioning but negation. And if there is limited choice you might magnify the difference in order to represent. Like 4/10 or 5/10 becomes agree or disagree. - And people have a natural feeling to give "correct" answers so more likely to follow collective views rather than personal, even without prompting.
Funny you should mention the Stroop test. When I was 17 I designed an experiment for my psychology A level course to investigate one of the ideas offered to explain the Stroop effect - that we automatically read written material so when we see the word 'Black' printed in blue ink, we conflate the two when asked to identify the ink colour. I got subjects to do the Stroop test in different conditions - first reporting the colour ink of the words verbally; second pointing to printed colour names - eg. 'black', 'yellow', 'blue', etc. - and lastly, just pointing to colour patches. In the first two conditions, the Stroop effect was observed. But when subjects pointed to colour patches, there was no Stroop effect - which refuted the 'automatic reading' explanation.
If a therapist even so much as _asked_ whether there's an alternative reason when the freaking trains were late, I would immediately cancel the treatment. If I found out they assumed or suspected it, I would also cancel the treatment and dismiss _everything they ever said to me_ (other than things I could confirm independently) as suspect and from an unreliable source.
I’m a Christian. And I love this video. I’ve been bouncing around the atheist community looking for good criticism of religion that didn’t just amount to “religion bad. Believers stupid” surprisingly hard to find respectful analysis and critique of the texts and methods. And it’s even harder to find any criticism from the Christian circles. The only way to truly learn is to explore all aspects of a subject. You and Telltale are by far the best I’ve found so far.
From an Athiest, absolutely. I don't watch most channels that target me, so many are just... Just stupid.
Yeah, I find that TT addressing the malignant psychological effects along with the theological non-sequiturs in a calm manner that doesn't malign the average theist at the bottom ranks really makes his content a different breed to standard angry atheist X. And don't get me wrong, as an atheist I think there's plenty to be angry about regarding religion's ideological hostage-taking over society, but it's unproductive to just rant aimlessly.
@@moosicalapocalypse9870 instead of attacking and showing Offensive tactics "like religion". He shows defensive non-combative thought concepts, water not Stone. Thought, not violence in a very honest way, with Actual Good Intentions, not "exaggerated claims and excuses to Broken Promises".
@@moosicalapocalypse9870 as an apostate, previously R.catholic, then immersed in O.T. and attended "Tree of Life, PITT PA". Did you know at birth, there were 10,000 religions, of 1,000,000+gods, deities, angels, lords, demons and Spirits? You knew out of 10,000 sect's of christ, which one was true to the Devine word. You knew, Gian G. Trissino, german grammarian 1524 finalized in as a offical Letter. Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, Greek, Roman and Germanic languages did not have a ju? Be Caus, at birth you knew which translation of a Translation of Hear-sayism was, faithful to the Original? I am am named from bible N.T. "JoEl GabriEl with christ in last name, I kNOw, the Big picture you Don't . Find why I don't do religion further by knowing whom j-NoEl is to bileBulln GabriEl as well. kNOwing, is Half the Battle.
Last note : Genesis 6: 1-5, one of few Facts in lies, Nephilim are among us, most don't know they are. I am n and have lineage records. "Crucifixion Fresco with UFO's " found in Turkey? Yeah who has or not HALO'S, "Nod-ian" people or the OTHERS below and hidden amongst them. Yeah you just google christian UFO art, open your stitched shut Eyes
In atheist-centric communities, a lot of the subject material ends up as preaching to the choir
Still, there's a vast amount of valid criticism and decent arguments. Forrest Valkai is another channel I like and I think his arguments are persuasive
I'm so grateful that I've never had to deal with a therapist like the ones at that course. The hallmark of a baseline-decent therapist is _listening._ Truly, truly listening is the bare minimum a person needs to do to be a decent therapist, and the therapists teaching that course sound completely opposed to such methods. I feel so sorry for any clients that fell victim to their complete incompetence and frank malpractice.
Oh, and on the topic of mormonism and sex - there's a huge need for mormon sex therapists in Utah (hmmmm, I wonder why...). One mormon sex therapist committed the awful sin of giving people evidence based, non-shaming therapy, and was excommunicated. She refused to go against the standard of care for her clients (whom she truly helped) and was punished. It's appaling.
Not gonna lie, that initial story about the strange course makes a lot of sense when you remember that therapists earn money with every session, so it makes sense that some therapists with less than pure motives would immediately try and make sure that they can squeeze every possible session from each client
"Whoever lives for the sake of combating an enemy has an interest in the enemy's staying alive" Nietzsche (allegedly)
I've also heard approximately the same in the (Chinese?) idea that "you should only pay your doctor when you are healthy", which perhaps fits into this video even more. If someone makes money/gains power/etc. with healing people (literally, or cleansing of sins or whatever), they're going to have an interest in keeping people sick.
one time when i was a teenager my dad brought me to a psychologist. we talked for a few minutes and as her questions got more and more personal at some point i started crying in deep sadness about some events of my life and she said i had severe repressed feelings within me.
after leaving there and calming down, i considered what she said but it didn't feel to me at all that i had repressed emotions or issues that i need fixing and had never again thought any of that was a problem in my life either before or after visiting her that one time.
in retrospect it really felt like she was manipulating me and pulling my strings into convincing myself i had some issue i had to fix that didn't really exist. truly despicable.
Interesting and high quality as always. Superb. And also a concerning account of a therapy course at the beginning. The tutor's response of silence then moving on was interesting. It sounds pretty much as if her mind blue-screened on cognitive dissonance and took a while to reboot before continuing as if nothing had happened. With people leaving due to the poor ethics of the course, the course selects for people who are of poorer ethics or who are - shall we say - less independently-minded.
Cheers CHL. I like your image of her mind 'blue-screening' on dissonance! You're right about the self-selecting - there was a lot of 'just following orders' mentality, which is effectively a renunciation of personal ethics. You can't have that mentality around vulnerable clients.
Reminds me of a video in which a disabled fella politely told a women not to pet his dog repeatedly, since the dog was working at the moment and it would be a distraction. She just stared blankly for a few seconds then stated she doesn't like his attitude. It's like she didn't understand being told that she couldn't do what she felt she deserved to be able to do and verbally attacked him instead of accepting his request.
ua-cam.com/video/moxvzwnk7Ww/v-deo.html
@@TheraminTrees I'll be honest, I was just passing through, not that I didn't like this, just that I wasn't sure how I got here (never saw your channel before). Was about to head on out after a few minutes, then I scroll down, see CHL as the top comment, and I knew I had to stay put when he has favorable things to say about the video.
@@TheraminTrees but have you exposed this place? Or report them? This was really disturbing!
Damn, where is your check mark?
"There's no reason to entertain imaginary defects" - that's a t-shirt :D
A lot of religious sexual biases are about getting you to spawn as many new recruits for the religion within the religion as possible whether the people behind them know that or not.
Nah... like all other sexisms by public organizations (because I call a spade "a spade") tell me that their leadership tends toward a disgusting over-fixation on pornography and a self-loathing for watching the free-stuff on the internet... SO they're bored enough to bother fixating and targeting their so-called "flock" members (and anyone else they can) with their projections of perversion, insecurity, and over-active imagination/power-fantasies...
It's a similar principle to "The meanest thing you can do to a thief is steal from him." ;o)
It does make sense. Religious memes are subject to the survival of the fittest and over time the less fit ideologies die out. That doesn't make the surviving ones better morally but it does mean they're better at passing on their traits. If you consider the individual idiosyncrasies of various religious/cult leaders as forms of random mutation, you can find some mutations that make their followers have slightly better odds of continuing to propagate.
Every so often a group that completely forbids sexuality even among straight people does arise. Christianity has major movements of that sort show up regularly, the largest one that's recent being the Shakers. These groups rarely survive for more than 100-150 years. After the charismatic leader whipping everyone up and his most ardent disciples die, the group will struggle to replace its dwindling population and it will slowly fizzle out of existence. It's not just Christianity, Heaven's Gate notably did something similar. Hasidic Ashkenazi Judaism is actually playing out a longer term version of something similar. Instead of banning all sex, it only permits it between group members. The problem is that there's a limited gene pool and converts, Jews from other sects and Jews of other races aren't welcome, and neither are donor sperm or eggs. I got bullied relentlessly for being part Arab and eventually just left altogether. There are around 130,000 Hasidic Jews which sounds like enough but they're all already massively inbred. No "pure bred" Ashkenazi is further than a fourth cousin from any other. That's why there are so many diseases exclusive to that community. This problem could easily be solved but it won't be. In a few generations the Hasidic community is going to disappear from inability to create viable offspring and be entirely replaced with Jews who do accept converts and mixed race marriages. I say good riddance.
Yea, if you look at the pattern or prohibition, this motivation nearly always fits.
@@fingerboxeshold the phone, did you just accurately employ the use of the word ‘memes’ from its original meaning?
I’m sorry, I’ve literally never seen this before in a comment section. At best, a few UA-cam videos and 1 largely misunderstood video game have took Dawkin’s definition seriously.
If we lived in an alternate reality where this was normal, I’d be adding to your commentary on how religion propagates through various shady tactics, but right now, saying ‘memes’ with its original use is so rare that it’s too mind blowing for me to just simply not talk about it!
I enjoyed this topic. I've recently felt that mental illness is over-diagnosed and under-treated (effectively by actually treating the root problem), even romanticised in our culture.
The IAT is interesting though, so I do plan on taking the Harvard one I found online. Because of current political extremism on both sides, I think many people miss conversations that discuss the nuance of implicit discrimination. I've almost lost faith that people who are interested in novel stances and open-minded discussion exist. But they should exist, in theory, so I'm putting myself out there to find out.
Either way, this is my first time viewing your channel and won't be my last. Excellent video and visuals. Your channel will definitely blow up soon.
@Michael Freed I've thought of that too. To me, our monotheistic culture makes people believe that good and evil are two separate people. It also makes people chase perfection (trying to be godly), which leads to shame and self-hatred. I sometimes wish we could return to polytheism.
Talking about nuances on discrimination is extremist, because it makes a huge deal of harmless acts and makes a monster of normal people. Check the Duluth model, ppl want to make even the slightest criticism or joke illegal because they say it leads to physical violence.
@@CvnDqnrU this is a claim I often hear about but never see. I've not met one person who wants to ban jokes, and i know a lot of left wing people. Seems blown out of proportion at the least
@@CvnDqnrU Talking about nuances on nearly any topic is necessary to get a full picture of the issue. Discrimination in all its form ultimately harms people, so being able to detect "unconcious bias" could be helpful in getting people to challenge their prejudices or modes of thinking. However, when ineffective testing is paired with a strong claim ("You're racist!"), then we have an issue. Extremism isn't simply a claim that strongly differs from yours, and that word is often overused in political discussions. Radicals will often like to call themselves radical, at least on the far left wing (which are communists, not anti-racists).
@@nathanbruce1992 ua-cam.com/video/PwTBXdGS_j4/v-deo.html You're welcome. BTW I didn't say banning jokes made by a comedian.
Thank you for providing insight into the psychology behind those matters!
With the start of your video I can immediately recall the sense of worry as a youth whether I would be good enough to God to be taken away in the rapture. That crippling feeling of being broken, worthless, unable to do good.
Now I can step back and see the mechanism at work. And escape it.
@LuthAMF Which Christianity? As a Baptist child I was taught that all humans are evil, and much adult behavior supported this, especially my mother's. I found other denominations taught much the same with differing emphasis. And noticed "evil" seemed to be learned and increase with age, babies and children seemed "better" before learning their elders' prejudices.
@LuthAMF
If what you say were true there wouldn't be so many denominations. And I've tried quite a few, both protestant and catholic, orthodox and charismatic . They all have one thing in common: mankind is guilty by default and need salivation in order to escape condemnation.
In fact all religions do. Not even one starts with the default position of being whole and accepted unconditionally. Not one portrays god/God as helping its creation in every way possible.
Gods, including the christian one, are careless, cruel and demanding. As a mother I've found that my love and care for my children far exceeds God's so-called love and care. I would never treat them like God treats mankind.
@LuthAMF
And that's what I would never demand: that anyone bow down to me. It's a silly thing if you think about it. It doesn't benefit anybody.
@LuthAMF
There it is: unworthy. Exactly what this video is about.
@LuthAMF
Can you read or not? I've been telling you worship is pointless. You've never even given it a thought why a god needs worship. Worship is not the same as love. Like obedience isn't the same as love and respect isn't the same as love.
You implicate that I'm haughty above my station in regard to your god. Yet you are even haughtier for believing you can make him do what you ask for (not that you actually can).
At least in ancient days the people understood that the gods are fickle and often petty. They understood the gods had to be flattered and coerced, and still you wouldn't know if they'd do what you asked for.
Sin is made up after the gods didn't answer (recognize the pattern?). Something must be to blame. The gods couldn't be to blame, could they, or there would be no use for them.
Whether they pray or not people get cancer. Whether they pray or not children get molested. Whether they pray or not women get beaten. But at least in the secular world you can get treatment and protection. In the secular world we figured out that you don't force a girl to marry her molester. We figured out that men fathering a child with their daughters is a criminal offence. We figured out that beating your wife is not an act of love.
So yes, I stand above your god. And no, I see no use for worship. In a loving relationship is no room for worshipping one over another. Just give it a thought.
As someone who is pro-religion, I find your videos very informative and impartial. Thanks for doing good work on freeing people from manipulation.
Beautifully reminded me of thought patterns I’ve had for years (since I was raised in a cult and was personally skeptical of the education). Honestly, I cried a little when watching.
UA-cam let me know that TheraminTrees has uploaded a new video.
Now, while it is possible that TheraminTrees could have uploaded a truly terrible video, my implicit bias made me think I would have a rewarding and beneficial experience if I watched it.
Well done to my implicit bias. You were right.
@Ben Meulink "Yes, it's logically the best option to have no bias" Not necessarily. If a bias is formed on the basis of previous experience, it can help judge a situation when there is no other information available. Keith Scott has probably watched TheraminTrees' previous videos, thus knowing of their great quality, which therefore made him find a high-quality video to watch.
If he judged every video on its own, he'd have a really hard time finding out whether or not a video is great before watching it.
that may be Bayesian inference
Oh my god, I feel like I can breath again, its like an elephant just stood up and is no longer holding me down. I am not even joking. I am going to watch this a few more times.
This channel is so informative and wonderful it hurts.
This is an absolute nightmare scenario for me. Bad therapists are exactly why I'm scared to seek help, but I know that I need it, or something at the very least. How am I meant to be certain in my own mental state if I can't even be certain of who's trying to help me or who's trying to manipulate me?
Thankfully, the author of the video shows that this is a minority of therapists, and that most people consider this attitude to be repugnant. Chances are, you will get a reputable therapist who has your best interests in mind.
It's a tricky situation if you get a bad one though, because people who are overly self indulgent will say exactly that about any therapist, good or bad, even though their lack of progress is their own fault. So, think rationally, and seriously weigh your options if you suspect your therapist is operating dishonestly.
There are many more out there, so make a switch
Just try. My first therapist was crap. If they are crap, get another one. Actually, the process itself taught me more self-empowerment and was a strange kind of therapy all it's own lmaolo
Just go out and give it a good shot. I heavily recommend it
#1 - I really appreciate your scope of vision,
#2 - "If I don't assume my clients have unconscious motives, then I can't work with them!"
Reminds me of:
When your job is to solve problems, and you run out of them, what do you do? Create them. Without them there is no work.
#2.a - After a person is guided and resolves their presenting issue, 1 of 2 things can happen:
EITHER
-a deeper more ingrained layer is presented / usually some form of self sabotage or a blindspot;
(things were going well but then X happened)
OR
-they resolve the core of what is stopping them from either living the life they want, or achieving what it is they want to achieve.
In this way, the job is never truly over and so much more rewarding.
After you help a person for what they come to you for, you can help them figure out exactly what is they want to do next.
Under this lens, I don't get why a person would have to make up issues that don't exist. : (
(I am curious, if you are familiar with: HNLP, Clean Language, or Jorgen Rasmussen?)
New TheraminTrees video? Oh goodness, yes.
I really liked the way you broke down the IAT. It primarily relies on cognitive heuristics based on the frequency of exposure to such categories rather than how we really feel about them. It's just a matter of which feelings our minds might conjure in the instant that we are told to make connections as quickly as possible, whether they match out outlooks or otherwise.
Top shelf work as usual, TT! :) Yours is one of the few channels I stop what I'm doing to watch whenever you release something new.
I got an Islam add at the start of this video... I turned away from Islam thanks to your help and the help of other UA-cam channels such as aaron ra and a couple of other scientists. I thanks y'all for lifting that pressure and weight off my shoulders. Peace and the best to all of you! :)
Love the connection u made between motives, transgressions, and biases. I've never tied them together like that. Thanks for always delivering therapeutic and insightful, fact-based content
Your videos can truly have a therapeutic effect on viewers. I always feel relieved and enriched watching them.
A lot of my current mental health issues are a direct result of religion, family, school, and community teaching that attributes (that I secretly knew were true about myself) were wrong, sinful, an abomination, and deserved eternal damnation.
I learned to hate myself and built a facade which I lived behind, living out the expectations of those around me, never living my own wants and desires.
It is a long, hard process to learn to love yourself and learn who you really want to be after subverting your own ego for 30 years.
yes, it is after some fourtyfive years for me. just that i am not as lucky as you seem to be regarding finding an understanding therapist. mine are like the ones in this video, and i have tried more than three dozens.
@@hermione3muller674 - I'm not that lucky. Been to several dozen. The good ones that seem like they can help always end up getting refused by insurance, and the rest are the same as your experiences.
I never seem to get more than a few months with the good ones before insurance refuses to pay for the good ones, so it is always a constant game of try to find another new good one that insurance will actually cover.
@@thotslayer9914 - My profile pic? From a comic I really like called Kim & Kim.
@@thotslayer9914 - yes, Humanist for the past 6 years or so.
All my equilibrium and good moral are the result of religion and the words of Christ. If it were by the modern society moral, narcisistic personas, deviations, excesses, aberrations, etc, i would be lost long ago !
10:49
I asked for evidence, but she simply reacted like a was being a difficult client. All I wanted was a solid reason to be judged as merely an ideological problem and not as a whole human being. I soon left after experiencing suicidal urges, which they viewed as "progress".
That was my concern with his suggestion...a lot of therapists or religious types are well versed in describing the reasons their services are needed. If someone is talking to them odds are that individual is in an emotion state predisposed to believe them as well.
As someone who has had no religious indoctrination, no real doctrines to speak of, no abuse, only love, your videos are still of immense value.
Both for understanding those who have had trauma, and to understand the reistance to normbreaking behaviour, and not judging people for norm breaking behaviour.
99% of the time, when someone is shamed for norm breaking behaviour (that’s not harmful) it’s to defend their own behaviour.
Understanding that their attack on your behaviour is not in fact an attack, but a defense of their own makes it much easier to deal with. Both in terms of not being angry with them, and in understanding how to get them to accept the norm breaking behaviour.
If you’ve never experienced this you don’t have to go as far to break from your religion, change gender or anything huge like that. Simply go vegetarian or vegan and notice how people around you, without you saying a word, starts to justify eating meat and sometimes even go as far as to state how annoying vegans are for pushing their way of life in their face.
There are so many norms we are not aware of until they are broken and people freak out trying to defend the norm.
This channel deserves so many more subs
I love your work. Thank you very much for these videos.
Being nonjudgmental and not making assumptions should be the first thing they teach you in psychology.
Just BRAVO on another mind blowing presentation. SOOO much info here. That opening quote about fraudsters; GENIUS. That opening group therapy mentoring session discussion: eye opening. That’s reminiscent of my many discussions with the congregation overseers related to the problems I’ve identified in the Faith of JW. So many hours were spent with the overseers attacking me, launching accusations, making assumptions, laying out red herrings etc. It was all quite chilling. Your statement, “When we learn to accept spurious reasons as a basis for our thinking, religious leaders can apply the sin label to whatever they like, and we fall unthinkingly in line”, is so powerful. The JW policy on blood transfusion is an excellent example of that. Sadly, and in my opinion, criminally, countess children have paid the ultimate price for their parents unthinkingly falling in line with this constantly changing policy. Thank you for such brilliant productions. Blessings.
Thank you so much for pointing out the flaws with the implicit bias test. I had to take it as part of a college ethics class, when I had taken a class about diversity and race relations the semester before (both classes are required at my college). What you brought up about people who are aware of stereotypes being rated as more biased made my results make much more sense. I'm not a Klan recruit waiting to happen, I had just been taught about what stereotypes exist and why they can be harmful. That and my hand-eye coordination is terrible even without swapping categories just when I'm starting to get the hang of it. XP
I can recall on my mind how I felt everytime at the end of every single one of your videos.
And I just felt great. Such a clear, well-written, good-intentioned, reason&science-based talk... It makes me so happy to watch and learn through it. Thank you.
Using an umbrella is rejecting god's love in the form of the nourishing rain he provides the earth, and is attempting to separate oneself from his creation! Let the rain flow over you and accept his gifts!
Space travel is a fleshly attempt to defy the infinitude of God, and must be reconciled by looking deeply into your heart instead.
Space travel is for people who are insecure about their life on earth, and who think they can escape their problems by physically moving from them. You should sort your life out before you leave.
@@alyosha3563 I've met surprisingly many people who deeply, powerfully believe what you just said. It's depressing.
I usually go to open-minded observant people if I want feedback about myself. Those people have really helped me to improve myself. I hate it when people give me false feedbacks as it feeds my paranoia.
A good therapist doesn't tell you what might be wrong with you throughout your sessions. A good therapist will tell you they think you're ready to leave after seemingly no progress has been made.
An exceedingly bad therapist will tell you the latter as well.
Can you explain more? I don’t fully understand your take.
@@deez9966 this comment point is very clear bro
@@-ss-8606 not really
@@-ss-8606 I'm not getting it either. OP is saying that a good therapist will perform a certain action... but that a bad therapist will perform that same action. Isn't that a contradiction? I think he needed a better distinction.
@@lunamaster123 I don't get it either. Hes saying this behavior is shared between both good and bad therapists. Its not necessarily a contradiction, but I'd love to know how the action fits into both categories.
This is exactly what my early studies of psychology taught me, to assume personal motives behind every action, which turned me into a very paranoid person who would over-analyze everything everyone did and falsely play the mind reader...when it turns out that a lot of actions have no real intentions behind them and a lot of people are just not thinking about what they are doing, and if they are, they aren't thinking about you when they are doing it. Very little is personal. Don't play psychic detective. Use Occams Razor - The principle that the simplest explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually the truth
It's basically a faith-based approach isn't it - looking for esoteric signs and messages. Every meaningless detail becomes potent. Clients who come to therapy for help working through problems get endlessly dumped on with the therapist's red herring fantasies. Like going to a doctor and ending up with more injuries/diseases.
The only time I was in Therapy, the therapist said "You are unconsciously flawed and that's alright, flaws make a person, positive flaws are not bad. If everyone didn't have something different... a unique flaw, then life would be boring." That made me happy to hear, that my flaws are a facet of myself and not one that defined me.
But yeah, just being told you're flawed and that's not good or you're not innately good is rather ugly.
TT your videos aren't just packed with insight, they are a delight for the senses. Absolutely adore all your work.
that beginning segment about the therapy course reminds me of a therapist i used to see as a teenager. when i told her about my life, and how me and my siblings had a few inside jokes, like the youngest being a clone of me because she looked exactly the way i did as a baby, she insisted i had a complex about being the "only real child" of the family. she also attributed me liking to swing at playgrounds as some deep, psychological tie to my childhood best friend, instead of logically assuming i just liked playing.
there were other major issues with the way she practiced, but those always stuck out to me as odd behavior, and i feel a bit sad to know that this might just be something she was taught to do; to assume ulterior motives or deeper reasons for everything a patient says or does.
Re: comparison of non-virgins to 'used goods' -- it's not even just the condemnation of harmless sexual behavior, just think about the message that gives to people who lost their virginity by non-consensual force. They're now irrevocably 'contaminated' by something outside of their control. Horrible message for victims.
Thank you so much for this video. It's given me a lot to think about, not just with religion, but with my own mental health in therapy and as a whole with automatic assumptions of others around me.
You have given me a great deal to think about when it comes to the human mind and how we deal with others around us, beliefs we share and differ on, as well as the aspect of learning how to better alter my perspectives on society around me, to further benefit my inclusivity and care for others.
This has legitimately been the best vid I've seen all week. Totally sharing this.
Insightful and impressively-animated like always. Keep up the great work, my friend. A few years ago, I was a member of a dogmatic religion, but thanks to your work and the work of others, I've learnt to self-reflect and only accept things on solid rational grounds. You've made a huge change in my life, and that change naturally cascades onto my social circle in a society in dire need for some rationality and skepticism. Thank you, TT.
Hey Tranquil - really good to see your name pop up! Hope you're doing great ;8)
I worked in the mental health field for 15 years and never encountered the kind of unethical behavior you describe here. Please tell me you reported it to the appropriate licensing authorities!
crispmom I’ve been in therapy and raised by a psychiatrist and psychologist. Both original sin and the myth of redemption drives the entire project.
What are you talking about psychiatrist used electroshock torture for years on clients that had no idea what was going on.
Where have you been? Ever heard of Jordan Peterson? He's a big proponent of the concept of Sin. He calls it "twisting the fabric of reality" and says you ought to be terrified of it, and if you "break the rules", God help you! While showing a picture of Moses and the ten commandments.
@@rowantree2881that gives him too much merit, I would rather call him a pseudo intellectual who happens to have his hand in politics.
You would be naïve to believe specific roles don't fall to corruption. Even the most beneficial concept can become a toxic idea when abused... Take social justice and the metoo movement for example. Both had virtuous intentions, but became infested by corrupt individuals that abuse them for their own personal gain regardless of who is hurt. True not every circle is touched by corruption, but that's the thing. Ignorance is something that aids the growth of corruption within outer groups. The Metoo movement made sex relations worse, social justice is abused by sociopaths, police officers going mad with power. Anything that gives you a hint of power has the capability to sow the seeds of corruption.
@TheraminTrees You are doing such important work! It looks like there is always someone ready to take advantage of our perceived flaws. Watchtower elders certainly do that.
It's the same age-old routine isn't it - sell a 'sickness' then sell the 'cure'.
@@TheraminTrees Exactly! :/
Just keep in mind to prioritize safety first before thinking to talk back and ask for evidence. People like closet exmuslims should, or would understand why.
I have asked religious folks for evidence of their claims, and have received a lot of verbal abuse. These sort of people are nowhere near as certain of stuff as they pretend to be.
@@douglaswilliams7720 that's the exact reason. They know they are living a lie and they like it, so they get mad at you if you try to break the illusion
I just found your channel and I love how calmly you explain things. I'm an ex-mormon,now atheist,and the way you talk about these serious issues with religion is very professional and done in such a way that it is very soothing because of your nonchalance. It's still very thought provoking but I find I'm able to think calmly about the topic and about the best ways I personally can help to stop the madness religion spreading.
You're a very wise man. It would be interesting to see you do a video with Telltale. He also is an atheist and also makes great videos on topics like these.
I find that its really difficult to talk to my father about religion, and this is one sticking point we conflict on.
I tell my father "Humans may not be perfect, but we arent wretched or vile by nature. We care about goodness, and badness, we care about each other. "
And he tells me to talk to god about it.
Which cupcake would you rather have? The one made by a chef or the one made by someone who had never made cupcakes before?
I’ll never forget how ridiculously my (Catholic) high school religion teacher answered me when I questioned the logical fallacy surrounding the Biblical story of Moses trying to get the Pharaoh to release him and the enslaved Jews of Egypt. In the story, Moses pleas with the Pharaoh between ten seperate plagues (one of which is God performing genocide on innocent Egyptian children) to let the Jews leave, and even though the Pharaoh comes close to letting them go on several occasions, more and more with the devastation of each plague, the Bible overtly says that God “hardened the Pharaoh’s heart” so that he’d say no every time. I asked my teacher why that was fair in any capacity... why would God want his people released but then intentionally, forcefully create more of an obstacle by making it impossible for the Pharaoh to comply? Like, the Pharaoh was a human too, a child of God, so why was his free will to answer logically and authentically taken away actively by God?? My teacher, confidently as ever, made a jumbled, contradictory word salad nothing answer, something along the lines of “Well if God hadn’t hardened the Pharaoh’s heart, then it wouldn’t have been so hard for him to let them go; God was simply testing the Pharaoh’s true character by not letting him free the slaves so easily... like... what?!? I still think about that a lot. The most disrespectful part about answers like that is that it actively, unquestioningly commands you to not think or question the motives of God. So as a high schooler talking with my 50-something-year-old teacher, of course I felt like I had to buy that answer to be a good Catholic. It would have been inappropriate and a taboo to continue civilly debating with her in front of the class. After all, she spoke with such certainty, I must be the one who doesn’t understand. Needless to say, years later, I can recognize it for the bullshit absurd nonsense that it is. It’s brain-washing. It’s damaging. It’s abusive, and wholly indicative of an abusive environment/lifestyle. Ugh
Hi Theramin. Just in case you missed my reply on my channel: "Great to hear from you my friend. Ex-Muslim is fine. I don't like labels but Ex-Muslim is unavoidable and it is after all helpful in breaking the taboo on leaving Islam. Thank you. I am honoured."
My dad was a pastor and my mom was a religious therapist. It’s only been recently I’ve been able to relearn that I am not fundamentally flawed and it only sprouted after I gave myself the unconditional love I deserved growing up.
I deeply appreciate the videos youre creating. The approach you have to solving these kinds of problems is extremely refreshing in its absolute honesty, thank you.
These kinds of manipulations aren't limited to religion and its illegitimate child, the mental health complex. You can see it pervading all of society on every level, particularly politics, the law, and class relations, especially in how "decent society" talks about and treats the poor.
I see it every day where I work. The rich elites consider everyone not an elite to be a parasite. They made the worst working conditions known to mankind and getting written up or fired often means you didn't have the right beliefs or friends, has nothing to do with ability. Old Klingon saying sums this up perfectly: "Klingons don't go to Rura Pente"
Only sexual activity that should be called bad is cheating. You make a promise to someone that you are exclusive, and instead of simply breaking up with them first to go after the new person you sneak around their back. While the cheated may blame the cheater they also often blame themself, thinking that if they were better in some way then they would not have been cheated on. If they had nothing wrong with them this causes terrible psychological harm since they are now searching for problems that do not exist. They also take a major blow to their ability to trust.
I'm going to assume you forgot that rape existed.
I’d eat the licked cupcake while staring at the teacher lmao
Saaaaame
I'd be too tempted to do something COMPLETELY inappropriate to that cupcake... and stare at the teacher the whole time... ;o)
I discovered your channel by accident. I am so grateful for them. Thanks to you, I started to reexamine things that I have experienced due to my involvement in Catholic Church. Even though I have been an atheist for five years, I still can feel the consequences of me being religious - especially how my sexuality and self image is still warped because of childhood indoctrination. Thank you for everything. What you do is very important and needed. I hope I have discovered your channel when I was in my early teens...
This channel has some of the best written videos in the entire history of UA-cam. Sheer brilliance! Thank you for your hard work!
Estas bonaj sed la plej bonaj? Tute ne! Li komparis religioj kiel li diris la religiaj homoj faras komparojn.
@@jesusacuna309 Cxi estas pli profunda ol tio. Li klarigis, ke multaj de la sociaj problemoj estas kawzitaj de religioj.
mi ne atendis trovi komentojn en esperanto ĉi tie XD
True! Furthermore, you could score “low biased” on IAT and still support policies, laws, and groups that harm/discriminate. Even after getting a degree in Ethnic Studies, I’m still finding myself experiencing biased thoughts that I step back and evaluate the truth and use of it? like the existence biases themselves are not what makes a person immoral (though moral action requires an analysis of beliefs and biases). Nor is working through biases a one stop check to see if you are or aren’t; its what ones do we have? Against whom? To what extent? How does it manifest? What informed this perspective? What might the person involved in this bias think of said bias? And its a constant flow of evaluation and inquiry, because our biases can change. And you often don’t find out what they are until you interact across identity & ideological boundaries. Also, the denial of existing biases in favor of the delusion of purity (pursuit of “wokeness”), or as a response to shaming (that comes from false equivalencies in my field “silence is violence”) also seem to inhibit the ability to address biases directly because in effort to not be seen as immoral people will virtual signal or perform activism, which is later used as evidence of their ‘nonbias’ or as gaslighting technique against someone discussing the discrimination they experienced from that person. Or some parade behind the mask of understanding and caring in public, but never has any biases challenged bc they have effectively convinced people that they dont have any biases. By nature of concepts presented in my degree namely looking into labour, land, and legal histories (which are the context and mother of the current issues) and just how deep white supremacy runs in the creation of this settler nation, I wouldnt go so far to say the existence of unconscious biases in everyone is a myth, rather that the purist political framing of them as sin (not all biases are even bad) or their presence equating the person as evil is the myth. Idk I kinda think the construct of purity is the root of all ‘evil’. Especially when you see that Race, Caste, Sexual Orientation, nationalism etc. all have been constructed with the dominant group considered the most “pure”.
"Because you're perfect just the way you are"
Nice idea in theory, but in practice, we call that "narcissism". People have a hard time admitting their own flaws. And nobody's perfect anyways. When you get complacent about your flaws is when the real danger sets in, and a lot of times things that might seem harmless on the surface have hidden pitfalls lurking in the background independent of stigma.
Yep, complacency over our flaws doesn't set us up for anything good. Don't know where the "Because you're perfect just the way you are" quote comes from, but yes - false idealising is of course just as much a distorted practice as false pathologising. Whatever kind of comments come our way, positive or negative, it's useful to ask 'Is that true?'
@@TheraminTrees Wasn't really a quote, per se, but rather a natural follow up to the "Don't let anyone tell you you're flawed" philosophy you seemed to be espousing throughout this video. That whole huge self-esteem movement that was really popular a few decades ago which everyone blames for ruining Millenials, you know? I assumed you were subscribed to the notion of "If it doesn't bother you it's not a problem," which I have seen getting championed a lot in the age of social justice, but I'm glad to hear that's not the case. The question is drawing the line between reading too deeply and addressing issues that we cannot recognize as issues without either a lot of introspection or therapy.
I also wanted to say that I believe the underlying purpose behind the social pressures and stigma you called out in the video are all societal responses to behaviours whose harm isn't consistent or immediately obvious. For example, even though casual sex isn't usually harmful to the individual, no one can deny that sex can be an intensely emotional interpersonal experience, and that always carries the risk of strong emotional reactions that aren't always going to be reciprocated. If it was an act truly incapable of harm, rape wouldn't be such a horrific and unforgivable crime. It makes sense why people would therefore invent a more immediate harm to compensate for the fact that such behaviour has random or subtle consequences. I feel it is too harsh to condemn insitutions and ideologies that create artificial consequences as being controlling and manipulative- I don't think, in most cases, it comes from a place of malice. I think most of the time these practices are shunned for reasons that make perfect sense from a larger-picture perspective, even if it does seem cruel or bigoted on the individual level.
I stated very clearly that when we're given evidence of flaws and harm, we have something to explore. The video made a repeated distinction between substantiated allegations, which do warrant reflection, and non-substantiated allegations, which don't. There's absolutely no hint of me arguing for a blanket dismissal of all allegations of flaws - that would be ridiculous.
Negotiating sex with all its complexity is part of being an adult. Of course the emotional stakes can feel very high for some individuals - and I think it's extremely beneficial to discuss the kinds of complexities, particularly unexpected ones, that sexual experiences can throw up. The answer - as is so often the case - is to talk frankly and honestly about all this stuff: including all the emotional and physical risks and all the variations and preferences. Stigma is a great way of shutting down all of that important discussion - leaving people isolated and uninformed. Ironically, it's the pedalling of stigma itself that directly contributes to all the problems it's claimed to protect against - by keeping people in fear and ignorance. We have an increased capacity to make more responsible choices when we educate ourselves.
@@TheraminTrees That's very true, but nuanced discussion isn't a practical solution for society-level issues. The fact is, a lot of people simply don't want to talk about these things. And in the abscence of that, people are going to rely on conditioning methods to control potential threats to interpersonal relationships. It's a defense mechanism, only on the level of the collective unconscious. And of course, like all psychological defense mechanisms, it can cause a lot of issues when inappropriately or excessively used. That doesn't mean the mechanism is a bad mechanism or is "broken"- it's just a crude and simple solution to a complex problem.
Education is a very practical part of the solution - these matters are rarely simple; solutions are often multifactorial. If a lot of people don't want to talk about these things, hey, that's up to them - but their wilful ignorance shouldn't impact on others who do want discussion. Of course what's often the case is that it isn't just about individuals deciding they don't want to talk about these issues themselves - it's often about their desire to stop other people talking about them.
Awesome!!! This is always a highlight. Thank you for sharing a new video!
hey man i love this vid a lot especially the opening. I at one point assumed people had an ulterior motive, without even realizing that not everything has to have or does have a hidden meaning in them. Which is what I always try to find in people! I feel stupid for thinking that but now I can do better so thank you
*As a closeted Ex-Muslim who just came home from a .. 'very lovely, peaceful and not crazy' lecture at a mosque, listening to the soothing voice and logical sense in this video calms me greatly. Instant subscribe from me lol*
Thanks. It's been hugely heartening to see a groundswell of ex-Muslim voices emerging in recent years. The risk of speaking up can be high but that risk is being spread by more voices. I'll be promoting some great ex-Muslim UA-cam channels soon.
@@TheraminTrees No need for thanks tbh. Unfortunately, it's still a bit too dangerous to openly state one is an Ex-Muslim (as you can tell from the crappy filters i'm using in my selfie in a foolish attempt to hide my identity), but hopefully one day.. genuine and honest individuals will come together to stand for freedom of speech.... One day xD
If the said religious mentor doesn't recognise the difference between a cupcake and a person, when he's looking for a sexual outlet, I would politely refuse any dinner invitation, that's for sure.
My ex-girlfriend was a counsellor.
One day, she attended a training course in which she and her fellow students were “taught” that they were all unconsciously racist and that they needed to acknowledge this when working with BAME clients.
They were shown a video showing how they were supposed to act. In this video, an Asian woman came to speak to a white therapist about a problem that had nothing to do with race. At the outset, the therapist made a point of saying to the client that he acknowledged that he was racist. This made the client uncomfortable as the idea that he might be racist had not even occurred to her and his admission that he was “racist” came out of the blue and was not relevant to her problem. But still, the audience applauded.
Sounds funny. I'd laugh if my counselor told me they were unconsciously racist.
Same but in an all school meeting with everyone in my school from grades 6-12 present.
this is a bizarre bastardisation of the simple idea of cultivating awareness of one's biases lol
I really do appreciate your objective view as it helps me learn new boundaries for my self and others everyday. Thank you
Things like your example in the beginning are what leads to Psychology being looked down on by many scientists and dismissed as a "soft science" so often.
A competent Sceptic on UA-cam?
My word!
When a Christian says "there's no justice in punishing one person for the sins of others"...they completely undermine the entire Jesus myth.
That’s apologist for ya
That isn't the concept of sin in Christianity. Paul for example executed Christians in mass numbers. He turned away from his actions and seek forgiveness. I'm a non-believer in anything. This one makes sense to me. When you make a mistake and everyone does how do you say you're sorry? It's impossible to fix the mistake it's been done. To move on with your life and not dwell on it you need to wash your sin from you. Atheists and agnostics can only ignore those mistakes. Christians have a way to wash their mistakes if all actions are turned away from.
This seems logical to me. i wish I believed then I could wash my mistakes.
@@OxAO The whole point of the Jesus myth is that an innocent (Jesus) takes the punishment due the guilty (sinners)...and that's suppose to be justice.
Therefore, Christians who say "there's no justice in punishing one person for the sins of others"...undermine the foundation of their religious mythos.
@@TheHigherVoltage I agree with you if that was all there was to it. It isn't.
Simple example:
talking to my wife in the proper context of what it means:
"I'm sorry honey I was careless and broke your moms vase. I will try to be less careless" "god forgive me" (for strict interpretation and washing of sin)
In your example by itself I would tell my wife
"God forgave my carelessness when I broke your moms vase. God forgave me. we're good." (there is only washing of sin)
Notice the difference. "turned away from my actions and seek forgiveness from all those that where involved"
Sorry. That statement by itself makes no sense at all and it is a complete miss understanding of what it means.
@@OxAO You example isn't what Christian doctrine teaches, which is :
- every sin, no matter how great or small, is to be punished.
- either the sinner (the guilty) pay for their sins, or Jesus does (an innocent)
You asking your wife for forgiveness for busting her mom's vase is not good enough. Someone has to be punished for the crime. There is no simple 'washing of sins'. Someone has to be punished for each and every sin committed in Christian doctrine.
You're skipping over the entire purpose of Jesus being murdered in the mythology.
My highschool English class had to take the unconscious bias test among others once. Interestingly enough, the reliability and the disclaimer weren't mentioned by my teacher.
Religious indoctrination really made me believe I was a born sinner and inherently flawed as a kid, I promise to myself I'll never subject my children to such nonsense.
PS this channel is criminally underrated
@Time to Reason i think I'll also try and learn about less dogmatic belief systems like Buddhism
A I As far as original sin goes, everybody is guilty of wrongdoing. We all know that. That doesn’t mean you need hate yourself or fight fearfully to make it up to God. That’s what Christianity’s concept of forgiveness is all about. We are all guilty, we all know that, but God forgives it all if we just humble ourselves, confess it to Him, and ask forgiveness.
@@Numba003 we aren't fundamentally guilty, you have to do things to be guilty of. It's just manipulation.
@@spinecho609 Hello. Naturally, I disagree, and please allow me to explain some of the reasons why.
Firstly, by looking down on this form of "manipulation," you're recognizing a system of morality in that manipulating others is wrong. As such, if you've ever manipulated someone in some way, you have committed a wrong action and are "guilty." As humans, we naturally have standards of behavior in our communities, and we naturally violate those very standards of behavior. I would argue that, whether you are religious or not, we humans are indeed fundamentally guilty.
Secondly, "manipulation" is a very loaded word. If we use that word lightly, we could call any form of external motivation a form of "manipulation." Human society is built on training people into proper behaviors, usually with external motivators, in particular at our earliest ages. Is teaching children values and cohesive behaviors not a good thing?
Thirdly, regardless of my manipulation into my thinking or lack thereof, I have done things that I choose to recognize as being wrong things. I imagine you too choose to recognize that some of your own actions committed in the past have been morally bad things to do. If that is indeed the case, we're just arguing semantics. Everybody has chosen to do bad things at some stage of their life, big or small.
I look forward to reading your response my friend. :)
Thank you so much for talking about this whole implicit bias nonsense! It is becoming increasingly pervasive in my work place and it is incredibly toxic for human interactions!
Holy shit, this has redoubled my desire to become a therapist. This kind of shit can't keep happening, it's utterly disgusting
I dearly wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors
We simply are our ideas, when these go wrong, we blame ourselves in some way, through our poor intelligence (intelligence is a concept), through our psychology (the concept of psychology is an interesting one, it helps ideas analyze ideas), through metaphysics (some kind supernatural realm working on us).
We blame anything but the ideas, because ideas are like computer code and such code lives in the virtual space we call "mind", ideas perpetuate themselves, usually pushing away those that interfere with its space and perpetuation (cultures and counter cultures). If replaced, another idea that conforms to the new "vision" will take its place, perpetuating itself.