The Tortured Poets Department: A Deep Dive
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Read the full 200,000-word deep dive here: linktr.ee/meatthattalks
A few post-production notes:
1) I realize that I continually refer to the "In Summation" poem as the album's 'prologue' but it seems that most people consider it to be an epilogue instead. Personally, I find that the album is much more easily understood and analyzed if the poem is read before you dive into it, and I think Taylor was very much aware that most people would be reading it before they listened for the first time (especially if they bought a physical copy of it), so I still think it's appropriate to think of it as a prologue.
2) I've heard different theories about two of these tracks since I initially recorded this that I wish had been included in my analyses here. The first is that 'The Alchemy' seems to have as much to do with Taylor returning to touring as it does about her relationship, and upon a closer inspection of the lyrics, I completely agree. I think that song has several layers of meaning and one of them is absolutely her retaking the throne of 'biggest live entertainer in the world'. The second is 'The Bolter', which many people have connected to Idina Sackville, and I definitely buy that Taylor is playing with parallels between herself and Idina similar to those on The Last Great American Dynasty.
00:00 Intro
06:38 "In Summation" Poem
09:42 Fortnight
13:58 The Tortured Poets Department
18:15 My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
22:41 Down Bad
26:08 So Long, London
29:11 But Daddy I Love Him
32:59 Fresh Out the Slammer
35:57 Florida!!!
39:37 Guilty as Sin?
42:50 Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?
46:20 I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
49:51 loml
53:15 I Can Do It with a Broken Heart
56:59 The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
1:00:15 The Alchemy
1:02:25 Clara Bow
1:05:48 The Black Dog
1:08:07 imgonnagetyouback
1:10:14 The Albatross
1:13:54 Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus
1:16:17 How Did It End?
1:20:09 So High School
1:22:13 I Hate It Here
1:25:12 thanK you aIMee
1:28:18 I Look in People's Windows
1:31:17 The Prophecy
1:34:37 Cassandra
1:37:30 Peter
1:40:08 The Bolter
1:43:18 Robin
1:46:32 The Manuscript
1:50:32 Outro & Song Rankings
Imagery in this video is licensed from Frimufilms & Freepik. - Розваги
Dear UA-cam Algorithm, please boost this man's content. :chefs kiss:
16 minutes in and wondering why you don’t have a million followers. The critics who reviewed the album should have seen this thesis first, before writing their nonsense. I love your analysis and presentation. Great cadence, clearly spoken.
I don't think those "professional critics" are trying to actually LISTEN to the record. They will give their half-baked opinions on a record after listening to it once, and move onto the next one without letting themselves to process it.
I know right? I'm rewinding constantly and have listened so many times.
My bad Peter, got so entranced, forgot to comment each of those times!
Subbed.
Thank you so much for this 😊
I hate the way reactors rush to be first - the quality of the product really suffers.
100% agree with this!! This is the deep dive/reaction video I have been waiting for! So thoughtful, intelligent and respectful! Please keep giving us this amazing content!
Taylor and the 'short term' flame have been playing cat and mouse since 2014 and this is essential information to understanding that the 'short term' relationship has longer roots and would count as a rekindling. They hooked up briefly. There are pictures or something from the show that night. A decade. He would have been 25. They've been calling each other out back and forth in songs and t-shirts. They even tried to collaborate toward the end of Taylor's long-term relationship... which... may have hastened things? Chloe & Co. is about the short, intense relationship. LOML is also about the short intense relationship. Peter is about this person... meeting her when he was 25 and promising to get his act together so he could come back and be with her.
Im a 62 year old man who grew up on prog rock and has listened to a wide variety of genres from all over the world, often in what I see now as a somewhat sad, hipstery, "its great because it's avant garde, difficult, obscure or cult," and "never country or pop" way, which had me ignoring or dismissing Taylor Swift until I almost accidentally started listening to Midnights and devoured her discography with an obsession I've rarely felt for anything (and I've had my share of musical obsessions). No-one who knows me understands what has happened to me since. I think they worry in the same way they might if I told them I was starting to see how much Scientology had to offer. I haven't been able to figure out how to explain why they should just listen and hear what I've heard. You have managed the exact lieraray analysis and deep dive that I wish they would all sit down and hear. Unfortunately, that's not how it works, but thanks all the same for reminding me I'm not crazy for believing TTPD is a masterpiece and Taylor Swift is in a class of her own.
Much like yourself. Cheers.
And it’s fun!! It’s fun to be a part of something that she brings her fans in on, that she sprinkles Easter eggs into all facets of her musical journey!
Also- as for “imgonnagetyouback” being stylized all one word- listen to the 1975’s “fallingforyou” for some lyrical parallels. (That song was also dedicated to Taylor by a certain frontman once upon a time)
Fabulous analysis. As only a casual swift listener, and someone who doesn't follow her life this was appreciated and surprisingly reaffirming in my own experience listening to this album. The discourse around it was odd to me, I thought it to be clear in concept.
I believe the “almost drowned when she was 6 in frigid water” is a metaphor for her 6th album (reputation). And she’s not literally talking about being a child, but more like her life throughout her fame.
First, I want to say, I've read your whole deep dive & I'm still watching all the videos cause the cadence of your speech itches my brain in the best way & I love the way you talk about Taylor & her work from a an objective, music focused place. I really appreciate that you don't want to paternity test Taylor's songs, I wish more people could look at them in that light.
That being said, there are a few things I think you miss by not being overly knowledgeable about her relationships outside of what she puts in her lyrics, mainly that, though they only officially dated for that short manic phase between Joe & Travis, previous to that, Matty & Taylor had a decade long history of almosts which she refers to often throughout these songs.
There are few instances where your interpretation misses the mark earlier in the album due to not knowing this, but what lead me to commenting was the song Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus where you interpreted as being about a different relationship entirely is actually almost definitely about Matty. They met when they were 25, & she was immediately infatuated, but he was hard into drugs at the time & they didn't get together, this song is about how they kept watching each other be with other people throughout that decade rather than being together. You even mentioned it being reminiscent of both Question...? & Maroon, which are both thought to be about him.
Similarly Peter (& Cardigan) are thought to be about Matty (during their manic relationship at one of the Eras shows Matty attended Taylor mouthed "This is about you, you know who you are, I love you" right before singing Cardigan, something he'd done days previous at a 1975 concert before a song of theirs thought to be about her) & about how even though she dated other people she was really waiting for him to grow up to come be with her.
Anyway, away from the Matty of it all, The Bolter we're pretty sure is similar to The Last Great American Dynasty where she's telling someone else's story & relating their experience to her own. This time the story being told is about Idina Sackville.
I am in total agreement here.
Well, my Friday night plans are sorted.
i definitely think robin is about dessner’s kid and possibly her wanting to protect the childhood innocence she lost. it connects to seven and would’ve could’ve should’ve and never grow up in my opinion
JFC this is good. UA-cam boost this! The only thing I think you may not know is that Taylor and Matty have had a "what if" for a decade.
I don't usually comment, but this video hit me as something I really needed about this album. It feels like listening to a University lecture about a great artist. Women's achievements in the arts often get minimized or even erased. I discovered Taylor when I noticed something strange about the media's portrayal of her. When I found her work, it was so rich, deep, and evolving, it makes you want to shout from the rooftops "do you see what she is doing, this is incredible!" It's difficult to compare her career to anyone at this point. I just crave analysis that appreciates the layered complexity! Thank you for recognizing this historic moment in her career.
Peter is about Matty. They first hooked up 10 years ago and remained in contact and even “friends “, all along. This was not a short term relationship
Did I watch all of these on TikTok? Yes. Am I going to watch this through over and over? Also yes.
Thanks for your insights. It made the album better for me, and I didn’t think that was possible.
This is the best TTPD review and also the best TTPD analysis. Thank you so much!
The Albatross is my absolutely favorite song on the entire album
Been hoping for exactly this video from you!! Of all the (many) interpretations of ttpd I’ve read and watched, this is by far the most well-articulated and thoroughly considered. Keep up the fantastic work!
this is so far the best video talking about this album that I've seen! I really appreciate that you focus on the art and not the celebrity gossip! it's a good album even if you don't know all the lore but I was too fascinated to not to in depth research myself. I'm so happy videos like this exist!
Such a great video! ❤
I do have an open mind about being wrong before I get into it 😅 all interpretations are interesting.
I remember being on Tumblr back in 2014 when MH and TS were flirting on there and wearing each other's merch. this whole thing has been wild.
in my opinion, my boy, the black dog, and loml only make sense if they're mostly about Matty. but to understand a lot of this it's vital to know some background that I wouldn't usually expect anyone to know.
They've known each other since 2014 and were flirting online at that point. She dedicated Cardigan to him after he dedicated a song to her on stage. He sang fallingforyou to her in 2014 on stage. I could write a very long essay just on all the sonic and lyrical references to the 1975 alone.
"I felt more when we played pretend than with all the kens" Matty is not a Ken and Joe definitely is. also the end of my boy only breaks his favorite toys she said stole my tortured heart then said I'm better off but I'm not which alludes to how he ghosted her in down bad. the idea being that he "tail tucked between your legs your leaving" because he couldn't handle the media and fan backlash to their dating and "told me I'm better off". He abducted her like the alien in down bad, love bombed her, then ghosted.
Down Bad is an alien abduction 👽 🛸 The 1975 have a song called An Encounter.
Guilty as Sin? mashes up well with About You by The 1975. In that song she mentions the song 💡The Downtown Lights by The Blue Nile, which The 1975 sampled in Love It If We Made It. The 1975 also has a song called Mine. "written mine on my upper thigh in my mind".
The beginning of imgunnagetyouback sounds exactly like the beginning of Looking For Somebody (To Love) by The 1975. both produced by Jack Antonoff.
The song also references their song fallingforyou where he mentions "my bike and your big house".
She mentions The Starting Line in two different songs. (The Black Dog & Fresh Out the Slammer) The 1975 performed Best of Me by The Startling Line live and made a shout out to 30 year olds.
"7 bars of chocolate" The 1975 has a song called Chocolate. 🍫
In loml she said "the decade played us for fools" that was the decade they were apart. the line about her being with someone that might have bullied him in school could be about when she was seeing Calvin Harris.
loml is all about heaven impressionist paintings that turned out to be fakes, a con man etc. it all fits with Matty's story so far. he's the cinephile in black and white and a suit and tie because that's the entire 1975 aesthetic.
I think she weaved little pieces about Joe throughout the album as well but his main songs are So Long London and How Did It End? she said most of what she needed to say about Joe directly in her last several albums. Fresh out the slammer is about both, the cage of the Joe relationship and then my first call will be to, the guy I've held a candle for since 2014.🕯️
through the songs about Joe "you say I abandoned the ship but I was going down with it" etc. we can see that she probably left Joe and Matty ghosted her. so when she says "I'll never leave. Never mind" they are the man saying those words, since those lyrics are in quotation marks. so that makes me think MH, since HE left her. And she left Joe. "till I'd need to go be free"
In the manuscript, I feel there is a deeper aspect to the song besides who she might be singing about. The subject matter can be summed up as her simply reflecting back on multiple relationships and the whole of her dating life. The deeper aspect comes with the appreciation of her story telling. Taylor starts the song off as a narrator, singing in the 3rd person, telling the story of a woman who "rereads the manuscript of the entire torrid affair" which seems to be a compilation of several of her past relationships. So now, the question should be asked, who exactly is Taylor telling this story too? She continues singing the entire song in the 3rd person. Recounting dating boys her own age, then looking back again to an older partner and how it made her feel. But then, the syntax changes to a 1st person account during the last few lines of the song. Taylor says, "The only thing that's left is the manuscript, one last souvenir from my trip to your shore". At this point, she is now directly addressing the person she's been telling the story too. Imagine when she began this new relationship with Travis and maybe wanted to put his mind at ease to the fact that her entire career and every night on stage, she sings about her past relationships. Is she possibly explaing to him that, even though she "rereads the manuscript", AKA, singing about past lovers, she is giving those stories to her fans and the stories are now just stories? They aren't hers anymore. Or, like she has also said, what's past is past.
Your analysis has been so good and on point, I'm confused by your confusion with the track I hate it here. She may have loved London, but she seems to have hated being stuck there, not able to really shine. So she retreated to her secret garden, folklore and evermore, and the lunar landscapes, midnights. And I imagine one might feel worthless, when left at the house by the Heath.
I could be wrong
I think I Hate It Here is about her hating being in this world with all of its judgemental people and critics. I also think she hates what is happening politically in this country with the assault on women's rights, gay rights, and racist hateful people. So when it's all too loud and she feels like there is no hope she goes to other places in her mind where she has created a happy accepting kind of place where she and her love can be together and live in peace. I hate it here sometimes too so I get it.
Fabulous 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Wow, you should have a billion views and follwers. I found you on TikTok and I had to subscribe. you have a forever follower ♡
This is the first and only review I've seen that even comes close to capturing the full depth and "kaleidoscopic" (perfect word) lyrical and emotional heft of this album. You've delivered a MUST watch for fans. And I would dare non-fans to honestly listen and engage with an interpretation that is the absolute antithesis of the pitifully casual dismissal to which far too many people usually resort when misunderstanding and mischaracterizing Taylor Swift and her art. Thank you for this! 👏👏🤍🖤✨
Absolutely Brilliant Review! You must be exhausted!
👏👏👏 well damn. You approach the album from such a place of sincere positivity and admiration. And you pointed out some really nuanced parallels and themes that I've not seen anyone explore to this level of detail. Really enjoyed this essay / video ❤
This is such a good analysis and so accurately answers a lot of the questions people who don’t like this album have. I have to admit that on the very first listen i was a little disappointed and because i love her so much i gave it the benefit of the doubt and waited to listen until i was in the right headspace to really focus on these things. when i sat down and really listened to it I was reminded of why I’m so in love with her story. It’s like watching the 11th movie in a series for me; it makes sense to me that it wouldn’t be a favorite for casual listeners. This album hits different when you are invested in the main character in the story- it’s like reading the eleventh book in a series and saying you didn’t like it. When people get mad at swifties for saying it’s because they don’t get it, I think it’s because it’s taken in this condescending way. Speaking for myself and I think a lot of Swifties out there, it’s not meant in a pretentious “oh you just didn’t GET IT” way that i think it’s commonly taken as, it’s more meant that it’s OKAY that you don’t care enough about this woman’s story to decode the continuations of themes and motifs from the past albums you listened to casually- but it’s not really written for the casual listener. There’s a reason this album has broken so many records and it isn’t because she has a crowd of mindless fans that will love anything she puts out- it’s because she writes these stories for the people dedicated enough to look deeper and are so invested in the story she’s written over the entirety of her career that just so happens to be autobiographical. We care about her because we have put in effort to understand not just how the song sounds but why she made the choices that made her song sound like that and use the words that she uses. We’re given the privilege of seeing a real actual life through someone else’s eyes that we can critique and relate to and that’s something’s super special. This album isn’t a “bop along to it on the way home from work” album. There are so many albums written that way that are incredible, but this album is like listening to the next audiobook in the series you’ve been waiting to hear for years while you get little clips of what could be included from other people just looking from outside the main character’s perspective. Both are important and loving or not loving either type is a perfectly valid way to feel.
I don’t know if this sounds a little rant-y but i guess it’s just why I think people get so defensive of Taylor Swift and her discography- it’s a strange dichotomy of her music being a story we’re invested in and also the real life experiences of a real life person. We experience the pain and emotional consequences of the “plot” this character goes through in her albums while simultaneously interacting and witnessing the real-life “plot” and antagonists in the story.
Really, really enjoyed your perspective and deep dive on this complex work of art.
Thank you!
It is thought that Robin is about Arron Desner’s son as he is credited as a co-writer.
30:06 👏👏👏 exactly! you get it 🤍
I saw it all on tik tok and just hopping on here the say congrats again! I appreciate your quality analysis that manages to be deep and succinct enough to dive into the lyrics , background and sounds while remaining entertaining! I found myself going back to listening my favorite songs after your analysis and also going back to the ones that did not get my attention that much after a few listens and growing love for that track.
Respect for not falling into frivolous - gossipy content!
I think this album absolutely could not be revised quickly. As most well known publications did . It requires some headspace and emotional investment.
you..are..so..GOOD!
Thank you for this! You put into words most of what I’ve been thinking and feeling. From my first listen I’ve thought this album is thrilling. Messy, sprawling, shocking, confessional, confrontational, points where I felt I was seeing/hearing things I shouldn’t be. Excellent songwriting and production. I hear something new each time I listen.
I already knew your work (I read your TTPD review when it was published on Reddit) but I remain impressed. Thank you for this podcast, I finally cleaned my fridge listening to it!
I loved every moment of this. So well done and well researched, and I loved your introduction speaking on Taylor as an artist and the TTPD album in general. Bravo!
Thanks very much for this perspective, i find it refreshingly different from the gossip like versions. Taylor's fan base (some) seems to want the gossip rather than the art.
As a recent entrant into the Swiftiverse, I was triggered by the initial vocals in "How did it end" -> "This womans work" by Kate Bush. Similar creative endeavours and journeys, decades apart. A critical difference is that Kate is shy whereas Taylor is not. The parallels I see are the fans chasing their object of worship into hiding, 13+ years for me and Kate.
Anyway, thank you for this work and the effort shared.
Peter is about Matty. They first hooked up 10 years ago and remained in contact and even “friends “, all along. This was not a short term relationship. Taylor even told Matty, this song is about you, I love you, before singing Cardigan at the Eras tour.
Are you the dude from Reddit?!?!?! Omg no way!
Ok I don’t know how I have gone all this time without finding your Chanel! Thank you for your intelligent dissection of this double album!!! Within 7 minutes, I was hooked! You have a new subscriber!
Let me add that your analysis is phenomenal, especially not being deeply familiar with her lore. I’m now going back through your videos for more.
Love your analyses!!! Thank you so much for all of this work! It’s priceless treasure for the true fan and the novice listener alike!!! ❤
the best review yet....your message about Robin, nostalgia, time passing and aging was just so heartbreaking to me :( As someone who just turned 30 it really hit different
Not sure if anyone has answered your question about the beginning of imgonnagetyouback, but my theory:
On Mattie’s 1975 album Being Funny in a Foreign Language, he has a song called Fallingforyou (Yes - written like that on the album) and the beginning of a song called) sounds eerily similar.
This girl is so brilliant.
Excellent!!
I cant wait to see more of your takes on whatever you decide to move on to... i believe you deserve a million followers... i cant wait to read your work, you are amazing, thank you for this!
Imgonnagetyouback is a sequel to Blank Space, hence, no blank spaces
Excellent analysis, thank you. I can’t wait to read ur essay. I’ve subbed and look forward to ur future video essays.
This was an incredibly insightful listen all the way through. You really helped me understand the genius of The Albatross specifically. Thank you for the thoughtful content ❤️
I think the metaphor in the bolter might refer to her being 6 albums into her career when she was almost 'drowned'. I believe "slam of the door, call her a whore" references back to the lyrics of high infidelity (lock broken, slur spoken) and the events of getaway car. Just my interpretation anyway❤
My friend, “Cardigan” is hardcore about Matty, not Joe.
This in incredible work.
You. This. Amazing. New sub!
I love your thorough reviews. Your thoughts are unique and interesting and well laid out. I enjoy listening to you ❤
Oh, and Taylor and Matty met when they were 25
Also would your interpretation of “Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus” change if you knew that Taylor had a long on/off situationship with Mattie? And How Did it End feels like a nod to him just ghosting her, as in the line in “Smallest Man Who Ever Lived” when she says “And in plain sight you hid/But you are what you did.” He ghosts her, hides from her, but is publicly out for the rest of the world to observe.Just my humble opinion.
If you have time you should cut these down and make them into shorts/TikToks. People would flock to your channel so quick
They are on tik tok!
@@nataliasalas9090 oh! Great! I don't use TikTok much
Robin speaks about the kelce brothers when young!!!!! Plus Jason is known for his Batman mask and Travis is robin!!!!! Think about it and listen again