Don't worry, I'm sure you guys will find what you need to patch the hole for next season and it will be your turn then to do this. For now I just hope my Habs can lead the way and bring the cup and then hopefully you guys can make it back to back Canada cups
Its a safe and warm feeling watching the habs play there game and Price playing like 2014 Price! You all would enjoy it. Just start singing with us. "Ole ole ole ole"
@@efng21 why you got to be like that man. They complemented the podcast. Also said they like hockey but also other things you don’t got to come at them for saying that they like the podcast for maybe a different reason then you
@@haydenwhite5877 Thank you, that's exactly it. The hockey talk is good, the non-hockey stuff gives it the extra. The crash course on random historical topics, zoo stories are always good for a laugh and whatever random tangent the guys go on.
That's one thing that's really pissing me off about leafs fans right now. Canadians are an absolute powerhouse and have proved they are just a better team but leafs fans prefer to pretend they are garbage so they can stew in hate over their team losing.
@@ldgt1 no I'm saying he was unfairly abused his whole career but when he was younger he wined to the refs so didn't get the sympathy McDavid is getting
Congrats to the montreal canadiens in sweeping my jets. You guys deserved this series as we just couldnt recover. Ps: its okay steve my opinion on the leafs hasnt changed either , nothing special
@@kenised tell me you don’t watch the games without telling me you don’t watch the games. it really isn’t boring. the islanders have scored more 5v5 goals than any other team in the playoffs over the past three years. look at the game last night; 5-4. youre just salty, like every other whiny hockey fan that says the same thing, that the islanders don’t have a pampered, overhyped superstar to point to (a la crosby, mcdavid, matthews). the islanders are deep. cizikas is the best 4th line center in hockey. pageau is probably the best 3rd line center in hockey. beau and barzal are electric. pelech and pulock are a top 3 defensive pairing in the league. calling them boring is lazy and not true.
It is true that Yzerman became a better defensive player when Bowman came in. It is true that those Red Wings teams were amazing and Yzerman's decline in scoring coincided with lower scoring league-wide, but it's undeniable that Stevie focused on becoming defensively elite because of Bowman and it contributed to those Cups.
It’s not that Steve Yzerman didn’t become an important part of the red wings by becoming good defensively. It’s the narrative that Steve Yzerman learned to win by sacrificing goals to play a 200 foot game. When in reality we has already like 13 years into his career and in his 30s, he needed to become good defensively to remain an affective player because he wasn’t that guy anymore. Plus it wasn’t him learning how to be good defensively that won them the cups, it was having a stacked team with tons of future hall of gamers on it. So it can be true that he was better defensively and that helped with the cups but it was more out of necessity rather than choosing to sacrifice
@@nolan2235 Kyle, you're right. Nolan, the notion that Yzerman wasn't effective anymore and that he had to play defense because of that is flat out wrong. But I love how people bend recent history to fit their narrative. Yes the Wings spend a lot of money and I am weeping for the Leafs that they had no money to spend and that they never tried to spend their way to the cup. Ahhh, poor Leafs. They would have tried if they had any money I guess. Ahhhhhhh.. So the '' they simply bought their way to the cup'' is bullshit too. With Yzerman their first final was in 95 the last one in 2002. In that span, the League was dominated by three Western Conference Teams a) in the Standings and b) in he Play Offs. I love how Adams has strong a opinion but he doesn't know that important fact. These three teams were the Wings, the Stars and the Avalanche. In that span one of these three was the Western Conference participant in the Finals. They won six of eight cups. The Wings have won three . Between 96 and 02 the Wesern Conference Final was always played out between 2 of the 3 Teams. They were all filled with Superstars, Hall of Famers and fantastic players.
@@nolan2235 “When Jimmy Devallano approached me about coaching the Wings, I knew they had a lot of offense and weren’t a team starting from the bottom. They had some good players, but in the playoffs, they couldn’t get it done. Offense is a great thing, but a lot of times it can dry up, especially in the playoffs if you face a hot goaltender. Maybe you’ve feasted on the power play, but you may not get as many opportunities so you have to have a well-rounded team. Steve was a great offensive player and smart, but he wasn’t paying as much attention to defense because he was counted on to score. I told him that for this team to win his individual production was going to dip because he had to play more defense. He was an ultra-competitor, and I didn’t have to twist his arm because he wanted to win a Stanley Cup. The players respected him and they were going to follow suit, and if they didn’t, they weren’t going to stay. Steve worked hard on his faceoffs, and we started having him kill penalties. We had other great scorers like Sergei Fedorov, and had enough scoring, but we just needed to play some sound defense. We were fortunate that when we needed a player Mr. Ilitch let us do that.” - Scotty Bowman
I'm a Boston homer and I could concede the Marchand argument because he's more known outside Boston for being "the rat" than for being an elite player. I'll die on the Bergeron hill though.
Love the hockey talk. The discussion on Ryerson was a bit misleading however. He was not the architect of the Residential School system. He was an architect of a school system for indigenous peoples in Ontario before residential schools were a thing. These schools are not analogous to the horrow shows of what ended up being the residential school system in Canada. You can read more about it here: www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/egerton-ryerson-being-misjudged/
Here is an except describing the schools for indigenous people that Ryerson oversaw: “Two schools were established. They would be supervised by the government, and run by the Methodists, just like most of the on-reserve schools. They differed markedly from later residential schools, however. Teaching was done by teachers trained for the regular school system, not by the clergy, and children could speak their own language. Attendance was voluntary. Religion was a subject in the curriculum, not a tool of forced conversion and assimilation. As a devout Christian, Ryerson would have been horrified by the abuses and cruelties later perpetrated on Indigenous children by residential schools.”
We need to stop talking about the "big four" in relation to cap strain. Nylander makes less than $7m (70th overall in the league) and is a steal at that price. It's the "big three" all making $11m'sh that is limiting what we're able to do financially.
Peeps mostly remember than having him sign at fair market was worst than pulling teeths for management! That's why he is lumped with the other three would be my guess...
@@SF1886 He's played centre and his only problem is being switched back and forth because playing C is much different than playing wing. He was nearly a goal a game player the whole playoffs. On top of that Nylander does a lot more in his own end than people give him credit for. He's constantly digging for pucks, he knows how to get them to Holl who is fantastic at making sure the puck exits with possession and the stats prove that. You watch the game going, ok when does Nylander do something I don't like so I can chirp him. So you see something here or there and you go, "awww see, what a screw up."
It’s great to live in another fan bases head, isn’t it? I enjoyed it throughly as a Hawks fan when we had a rent free penthouse in the Blues fan’s heads.
Jesse Blake: the Islanders are just so painfully boring to watch, I have to turn it off. I hate that style of hockey NY Islanders (Saints): most goals in the playoffs
Blown away by the intelligent conversation about Egerton Ryerson (1:08:49)! Was not expecting to listen to a hockey podcast and learn about Canadian history. The way Adam & Jesse explained how access to information today is causing us to re-evaluate history was fascinating (1:22:00)! Thanks guys!
Loved that they talked about that, much respect to these guys its important extremely every statue should be ripped down of those who was a detriment to other people's culture, families, lifestyles etc
The NHL doesn’t need to copy the NBA; call penalties when they’re deserved, stars or not. We shouldn’t tarnish the authenticity of the game for “marketability”.
The amount of $10 million men in the 2nd round is less of a comment on how many stars are playing, and more an interesting thing to think about in regards to cap management.
Idk if the islanders have “way way less talent” then any other team that was knocked out in the first round. Yeah if you took the top 5 players from each team the islanders may not be as good, but you start getting deeper the other teams will just run out of players, and right when that other team reaches its fourth line, the islanders throw out theirs with Martin, clutterbuck, and cizikas, and they just beat up on anyone. Really really deep team with some insanely underrated talent like Nelson, Pagaeu, palmierri, Bailey, baeuvilliar, and probably the best defense duo in the league with Pelech and puloch who are able to completely shut down the penguins and bruins best players clearly
I think that's what we've been saying. They've made the best of what they have... like the squeezed every drop of talent out... and squeezed the life out of the teams they've faced. Play to your strengths, manage your weakenesses.
I love that you guys think you're being smart by talking about the Marner deal as a bad thing when you were cheering when he signed. He plays astoundingly well, generates and scores goals and you're whining about it. Yes, he had a bad series. Yes, there needs to be improvement, but that doesn't mean you get rid of him immediately. The moment Marner gets traded, that team that gets him wins the cup. Almost guaranteed. This is truly pathetic and hypocritical analysis by you, and I wish you could see it.
Until Marner gets over his nerves then he ain't winning nothing! It's almost comical how awful he looks due to nervousness. And he will not help any other team either until he sees a therapist or something, he's as nervous as I would be out there, and yet he's been in these stressful situations his whole life!
@@creepyrobsta5509 and yet he performs well in the regular season, which gets us to the playoffs. Remove that and we're minus 47 assists and 20 goals, which doesn't get us to the playoffs. So maybe a 24 year old needs help in the nervousness arena in the playoffs. So what? He will get over it. The idea these guys are holding a mental health issue against Marner, and whining about salary and saying to essentially blow the team up over one contract is ridiculous and hypocritical.
Steve talking about the islanders!? I am so here for this! Luv you guys! #LGI Edit: oof Jesse's take on defensive hockey is mind-boggling. Maybe if the Toronto Maple Leafs had a little bit more of what the Islanders have they wouldn't be on the golf course right now.
Both can be true tho. The way the islanders play can be/is a winning strategy and they do well because the NHL perpetuates that style of play through parity and officiation. But it’s boring to watch. If every team played like Colorado who are super fast and fun, hockey would gain way more viewership and be more exciting to watch. But to each their own I guess too. I just see the other major sports going towards more offence and out rating hockey consistently.
No disrespect to the Islanders, becuse at the end of the day winning is all that matters, but as a non Islanders fan I find their style of play to be extremely boring. And I think that's the point Jesse was trying to make. It's like the 90s with the Devils. Devils fans loved it, but casual fans hated it.
@@nolan2235 it's not like the bruins are scoring a ton of goals so why aren't they boring? You honestly think this series has been boring? On either team's end?
@@csolivais1979 again it boggles my mind that you or anyone else would think that this series has been boring! I love Steve and the crew but the fact that Toronto barely scored any goals and everyone screaming about high offense high offense and so little teams producing that is hypocritical.
I think it’s safe to say the Maple Leafs right now are the pre-04 Red Sox, of the NHL. A team which had significant success in the early years of the league, in one of the most important markets in said league. Legendary players, past and present, loyal passionate fans, long championship drought, and enough tragic heartbreak to make Titanic look like a comedy by comparison.
Marner definitely deserves a lot of the blame, but its hard to put it all on him. The Leafs just needed one thing to go right, and none did. If Tavares, or Foligno didn't get hurt, if Hyman or Matthews produced a little more, if Simmonds, Mickeyev, Brooks or Engvall got a goal. If Galchenyuk, Dermott or Sandin just didn't make some of the worst passes in history, the Leafs win. Yes Marner definitely did not live up to his ability, but the Leafs just needed one thing to happen and they would have won. And lets not forget, 2018 Marner led the series in scoring, 2019 Marner had 2 huge goals to win game 1 and 3 amazing blocks to win game 5. In 2020, Marner was the reason for all 3 goals in the miracle comeback. He has had good playoff moments, and to blame this entire thing on Marner when Hyman was a non factor and the Rocket Richer winner got 1 goal, seems a little dramatic.
The way they ignore calls in the playoffs has to be hurting the NHL's ratings in the long run. 17/18 of the top paid players are out of the playoffs which would draw more fans if the star players would actually get some calls.
Maybe if good players didn't stay/go to non playoff teams for a ton of money (Panarin to the Rangers, Jack Eichel staying in Buffalo, Erik Karlsson to a San Jose team on the decline) more "stars" would make the playoffs. According to Capfriendly.com 11 of the top 20 cap hits made the playoffs and 4 (Carey Price at #9, Andrei Vasilevskly, Nikita Kucherov and Mark Stone tied at #16) maybe the issue is more an indicative of the fact that top heavy teams like Toronto and Edmonton aren't the way to go in the playoffs since deeper, more financially balanced teams like Tampa, Boston, the Islanders and even Vegas seem to more consistently make deeper playoff runs.
@@ulmwilliams57 Tampa's not a great example. Look at that team on capfriendly. They have so many huge contracts, they just have the right superstar players that are at the right stage of their career.
@@Marixa1979 the reason I picked the Lightning is that while they have a lot of huge contracts they were savvy/ruthless enough to keep everyone's cap hit under $10mil, they're gonna be in absolute cap hell this offseason for sure, but they'll have won 1 or 2 cups before they lose that talent in the crunch to come. Contrast this with a team like the Leafs that has 50% of the Cap tied up in 4 players and can't keep mid tier guys around as a result
Do you remember watching the Devils in the 90s? It's boring. The Islanders are a good team, don't get me wrong, but it's boring if you are not an Islanders fan.
@@csolivais1979 it’s really not. you know who is boring; the oilers and the leafs. watching regular season teams crumble in the playoffs is boring. the islanders play fun playoff hockey; the hits, the clean passing, the putting the bodies on the line for blocks, the sneaky good players in barzal, beau, pageau, nelson, bailey, one of the best d pairings in the league (pelech, pulock). they aren’t colorado or VGK but they’re different. colorado and VGK are like coke; fast, loose, exciting, but short lived. the islanders are a glass of whisky and cigar; slow, steady, comfortable, interesting. both have their place in hockey.
I have been a Red Wings fan since 1982. What was said about Shanahan being the player that changed everything in Detroit is incorrect. Bowman was brought in after we lost in Round 1 in 1993. When the team lost again in Round 1 in 1994 Bowman completely restructured the team. The first step was Mike Vernon trade. The 1995 Red Wings were fantastic. We went to The Cup Finals, only losing 2 games along the way. That team knew how to win but The Devils who did win beat us. The following season we lost in the conference finals to The Champs that season Colorado. At the start of the 1997 season we traded for Shanahan. He was a big part of how The Wings were finally able to slay the dragon that was Colorado but he wasn't THE reason.
22:22 Is Jesse only excited by the puck going to the net? Why hate the Isles' game *that* strongly? There's a lot more fun to hockey than shots and the Isles led in playoff goals when this was uploaded, Bruins also shot A LOT so I'm not sure what the problem is, the most boring game the Isles played that I saw was the last regular season game against the Caps in 2015
the islanders, who have scored the most goals of any team this postseason, is a boring, defense-only snooze fest. LMAO. just admit you don’t watch the games and regurgitate stale talking points.
In terms of the Amazon documentary, I think they got the 2nd best ending possible. The best obviously being the Leafs winning it all. But like for their series trying to disect what went wrong, and maybe picking up early warning signs could be way more fascinating than if the Leafs were to make the Final 4 then lose in like 5 or 6 games. That would've be such an anti-climax for their TV Show.
I love how people bend recent history to fit their narrative. Yes the Wings spend a lot of money and I am weeping for the Leafs that they had no money to spend and that they never tried to spend their way to the cup. Ahhh, poor Leafs. They would have tried if they had any money I guess. Ahhhhhhh.. So the '' they simply bought their way to the cup'' is bullshit too. With Yzerman their first final was in 95 the last one in 2002. In that span, the League was dominated by three Western Conference Teams a) in the Standings and b) in he Play Offs. I love how Adams has strong a opinion but he doesn't know that important fact. These three teams were the Wings, the Stars and the Avalanche. In that span one of these three was the Western Conference participant in the Finals. They won six of eight cups. The Wings have won three . Between 96 and 02 the Wesern Conference Final was always played out between 2 of the 3 Teams. They were all filled with Superstars, Hall of Famers and fantastic players.
Question for Steve, Do you think the 2013 Chicago Blackhawks were good? (I’ll assume you say yes because they very clearly were) Why were they down 3-1 against Detroit? By your logic good teams should never be down 3-1 yet there’s countless examples of it.
I genuinely don't enjoy watching playoff hockey. Its boring, the rules are removed and its no longer hockey. I want to watch hockey, not who can get away with more infractions because the integrity of the league is at an all time low. I want to watch hockey were everyone's situation is the same, not every American team effectively having 40% more cap space because of taxes. I love watching the leafs play, i hate how they cant play the playoff game because they are trying to play hockey, and every team they play against is trying to run the other team out of the building every time. Mcdavid had 40 infractions against him in 4 games and drew exactly 0 penalties. Its a broken system and league playoffs take the highly skilled version of hockey and dumbs it down so everyone can play, except of course the highly skilled players.
maybe the reason the highest paid players are not in the playoffs anymore is because they take too much of the salary cap meanwhile it has nothing to do with officiating!
Problem: What is the regular season actually worth? The NHL has a real Jekyll and Hyde thing going on with season vs. playoffs. Colorado/Vegas winning it all is the only way you can argue the regular season has value anymore.
Steve it hurts bad but we are not built for playoff hockey. They get those greasy goals and capitalize on it. We dont have that. We want fancy goals not just goals
I understand the point you're trying to make, when you talk about Ryerson. The issue I have is that you dramatically exaggerate what he did. He was quoted as saying something about "instilling 'civilization' in [indigenous communities]". Admittedly, a pretty shity thing to say. However, he was long dead before the first real residential schools started. He played almost no role in their actual creation. None. I even read an article, I think the National Post I want to say, talking about how one of his most trusted friends was an Ojibway priest, and he even spoke Ojibway himself. He apparently had close ties and connections to indigenous communities at the time. Again I get the overall point you're making here, but it's important to get all of the facts straight. Did he say something terrible once? Yes he did. And we should talk about that more, and provide adequate historical context. But there are WAY worse people that we need to worry about. This just isn't the hill to die on. I'm also not a fan of the idea of mass mobs tearing down historical pieces, whether good or bad. This time it's a statue. Is it a book burning next week? But that's a separate issue. Btw, this is coming from an Indigenous person, not that it should matter.
Ryserson isn't being erased from history or burnt, the school with his name on it is being rebranded. Companies do this all the time to try and resuscitate their profits, but it becomes a social issue and suddenly everyone loses their minds. It's all just polemic.
the storyline that the islanders are “boring” and “way, way, way less talented” is honestly lazy and unfounded at this point. you’re just repeating old talking points because everyone else is saying it. watch the games. you’re telling me big hits, timely goals and fantastic goaltending is boring? nah it’s intense and enthralling. you’re telling me the team that has the best fourth line, the best fourth line center in hockey (cizikas), the best third line center (pageau), one of the best d pairings (pelech, pulock), electric young studs in barzal and beau, and unsung vets in nelson, bailey, palmieri, eberle is an untalented team? you can be talented without have the overpaid, pampered star.
Vegas dominated them in game 2 but took a terrible penalty which cost them in ot otherwise it could have been 3-1 Vegas because wow these 3 games they have been good
Trocheck scored 34 points in 55 games the year after his breakout 75 point season. The following year when he was traded 36 in 55. The Panthers thought he peaked and if he stayed in Florida they are probably right. Haula scored 55 in 76 with Vegas his first year and then had a few injuries the next two years even playing just 15 games in 18-19. For Florida who was cutting costs moving a 50 point guy in Trocheck for Haula a potential 50 point guy some depth and prospects it's not a bad swap. The problem is in Carolina Trocheck has thrived with superior talent around him and now looks a lot closer to the 75 point guy than the 55 point guy he was every other year.
Teams Go through waves and right now they're a hot team. Somebody tell me again how the playoffs aren't a completely random dice roll that just favours whatever team is going through one of these ways or on a hot streak? We should be celebrating the first team in the NHL every year with the parade. That is a true testament to the best team in the NHL through a long hard arduous season. There is no luck involved in finishing first in the NHL during the regular season. There is a whole ton of luck in winning the playoffs.
As a Leafs fan, the Montreal series was painful. However, Montreal had a great start and played well in the 1st half of the season. They limped into the playoffs but found their game again. Habs aren't a bad team, just surprising.
Everyone keeps forgetting that Hall would’ve cost too much cap space and who knows if he ‘truly’ wanted to come to Toronto, that’s why Boston only paid a second round pick cause that’s where he wanted to go…enough with the “we should’ve gone for Hall” takes
@@efng21 Also that's not ignorance idiot, there is a case for general lack of knowledge, not ignorance, as ignorance points to a larger issue as a whole, whereas this is pointing towards the pettiness of one person, you.
I love how all three of these guys can’t see how the North is the weakest. By far. No team defence. Great offence but virtually no team defence. It was a glorified OHL. Yes the other divisions had shitters but the North had 7 teams and they all choked in the playoffs except Montreal
One point I’d like to add.Mitch Marner demanded to be overpaid due to the fact that Lou never gave him the bonuses he felt he deserved on his previous contract.
Steve pegged Logan Paul bang on. I live in Japan now (from Vancouver) and he really embarrassed himself here. The Japanese hated him. It's sad that that's how you get famous and make money on the internet but basic guys who like yourself who make sincere stuff can't. It's messed.
Comparing McDavid's 8 games without drawing a penalty (which is a bit of a stretch) to *basketball*, the game with the most ridiculous foul rules of all time, is insane.
Brad Marchand is a top 5 player in the league Pasta is a star. Hall is argueable still a star.. MacKinnon is a bonafied star. Price is a star. Fluery is a star. I mean the only team without star talent is the Islanders.
I think the Isles have several stars...they just do not shine as brightly because they play defense first- they have commitment to a 200 foot game. There are several players who can score when needed....
@@georgebartlett8576 They do not. It's got nothing to do with defense first most of the "stars" were part of the team before the Trotz era. They simple aren't that good. Barzal is a number 2 center on most of the better teams in the league and he is argueably the best player they have. They play the trap for a reason. Because they don't have enough talent to do anything else. Nashville and Washington both played more open systems under him. He adjusted to what he had.
Hall is not a star. Marchand is super talented, but a bonehead who commits stupid penalties. Not top 5. maybe top 10. Pastrnak is very offensively skilled, but incredible one dimensional. He is pretty much invisible unless he has the puck on his stick on the right dot. Not a star in my opinion, but a great goal scorer. Mackinnon is a star. Fleury is a star. I would say Mark Stone is better than anyone on boston too. The islanders have the deepest team left in the playoffs. I do think they have stars that aren’t known as stars yet, but will be soon (barzal, pelech, pulock, sorokin, beau, oliver wahlstrom). plus, i would say the islanders best players play a more complete game than almost any other teams “stars.”
@@exturkconner your definition of star is ridiculously narrow and over relies on goals. goals aren’t the only metric. i’m sorry auston matthews may be a rocket richard winner, but if he can’t do it in the playoffs he is not a star. he is a very talented offensive weapon, but not a star in my book until he adds to his game and wins in the playoffs.
@@MrMtc228 Seems like your definition is the narrow one. And also very obtose. Bad players can have good playoff runs that doesn't make them stars. And certainly the player who's likely to be the best goal scorer of the next generation is a star. And I stand by what I said Brad Marchand 100% is a top 5 player. He draws way more penalties than he takes and is dynamic both offensively and defensively. He's an every situation player.
If you look around your city and google the people schools are named after and google the statues of colonialists and straight up bad people, you start to wonder why we're still honoring them.
As a Red Wings fan, I’d instead say the more relevant comparison is to the early 2000s Wings, where we had amazing regular seasons but then lost in first round upsets to Anaheim, Edmonton, and Calgary - the teams that beat us always made it to the cup finals, but it didn’t make the disappointment any softer. All it took was a few more years of seasoning and experience, as well as some luck from the hockey gods - for us to finally make it to the back to back cup finals against Pittsburgh
One of the top 17 cap hits in the league is still playing, that is an indictment of the game and its officiating, a blatant one. This league skews towards clutch and grab and grinding in the playoffs and they are proud of it. This game is broken. Adam is right, perhaps the best thing we'll see happen to this game is US broadcasters paying big bucks for NHL rights.
Lmao Steve's takes on who's a star left in the playoffs is absolutely ridiculous. To even hesitate on whether or not Marchand and Bergeron are stars is insane. There's tons of stars left in the playoffs, they just are paid significantly less than the highest paid stars.
Not enough time on Mang in the WHC, but understandable. Watch this dude next year. He was MVP for the Flames this year, and he'll double that next year.
Habs fellas. Take notes for dubas and keefe. That’s how you close. Time to stop being salty and check out the games they are playing. Shots 40-16, o zone time almost 2-1. That’s a good team.
And yes Stevie did take a back seat to goal scoring because Scotty told the entire team buy into this system or go somewhere else and guys like Sergei hated being in that position until he started getting recognition to play consistently. Steve Yzerman was always on and never took a shift off and unlike you sad saps i watched them win 4 stanley cups being a teen early 20s so i got to enjoy every win. Cant wait to be back where we belong.
Adam you'll be somewhat happy to know that the US Congress voted and passed a bill to rename the US bases named after Confederates to people who aren't traitors! The President approved a Commission and they're working on changing them over the next 3 years. Thanks as always for the history corner.
I disagree that every statue needs to be of someone who lived like a saint, the reality is very few people important/remarkable enough to warrant a statue throughout history have lived without doing terrible things. A statue could be of a saint, a villain, or just someone who made an impact in any major way. It's just history written in the form of a sculpt, a visual representation that might spread knowledge more effectively than a page written in a history book on a dusty library shelf.
I agree with you. Statues have value as a point of potential interest, frequently of the location they are placed. they can have uses to those who actually care enough to look into what event or person they are about. it's not a statues fault the populace around it doesn't know how to use it as a point of discovery, especially when what gets put in it's place has less historical value. I prefer recontextualization if it must be done with a chisel as opposed to a sledgehammer, but the sledgehammer is more the in thing.
Now that the Habs are through: if they lose to either Vegas or Colorado, the North Division still doesn't come out looking too bad. Those are the top two teams in the league, they may slaughter all comers. Only the teams that got wiped by the 18th seed should be embarrassed.
Lou = 3 Cups Kyle = Calder Cup with Mariles, Lou = no player under over 10M Kyle = 3 players over 10M Lou's team = heart Kyle's team = All skill no will Kyle gave up a first and fourth for a likely rental in Foligno Kyle has traded way the Leafs depth ( Kapanen, Johnsson, Kadri ( Barrie Kerfoot) Lou = hires an experienced coach that won a Stanley Cup Kyle = hires a Keefe a coach with hardly any coaching experience in the NHL Kyle's we can and will motto has pretty much screwed this team! In conclusion: They got kept the wrong GM Oh I forgot to add Kyle: will likely lose Hyman
Ted Rogers University. The business school is already named after him and you get to keep the Ram. (Also Reyerson becomes named after a U of T and York alum which I think is hilarious)
Steve, Adam, and Jessie, on the next podcast can you guys talk about how bruce Cassidy got fined for his comments about the officiating but Trotz recieved nothing for calling Bergeron a cheater. The following game not a single islanders player got kicked out of the faceoff dot, while bergeron got kicked out 4 times. I am trying to view this from an objective perspective and this really frustrates me. I would love to hear your guys opinoin on this
Oh boy...that Lou Lamerello stat main me howl...hes won 6 series since leaving the Leafs org..oh boy. I knew the Leafs should have kept him until at least the contract negotiations were finished.
@@KneeJerkReactions13 As of now, the team that swept the Oilers just got swept by the team who barely beat the Leafs. The Oilers got swept in their first legitimate play-off appearance since 2017 (The 2020 Play-in apparently doesn't count) and the team responsible for that sweep, in turn, couldn't even score one win against a team who has a great goalie, and maybe two good scorers. The Oilers lost to a team of losers and that makes them double losers and I hate this team. -Signed, an Oilers fan
If the stars belong in the playoffs, they will make it there. This is disregarding Patrick Kane (won 3 times), Sidney Crosby and Malkin (won twice), Ovechkin, Bergeron, Pasta, Marchand, Fleury, Thornton, Stamkos, Kucherov, Marleau, McDavid, Draisaitel (spelling) and more have all been past round 1. AND, if you cannot beat boring hockey, you don't belong in the playoffs. It's a legit strat, quit complaining.
"It's just the top three goalies in wins." Never mind that Grubauer leads the league with Varlamov with 7 shutouts, but distinguishes himself as both under 2.0 GAA, which is 2nd among goalies who played at least 20 games (the only other two are Fleury and Nedeljkovic), and .922%, which is 8th among goalies who played at least 20 games, and 2nd to only Vasilevskiy of those who played at least 40 games, which of which there are only 5 in this 56-game season. Vas certainly should win it IMO, for nothing else but his sv% vs the amount of shots Tampa allows (2nd most in the league to Hellebuyck), but Grubauer is legitimately in the conversation.
I'm going to make the saddest fan post on a five week old podcast, but here goes: I agree with Steve that the legend of Yzerman learning to love defense is pretty overblown, but as someone who lived and died with that team as a teenager and young adult, it's not totally fiction. What a lot of people don't remember is that the Wings hired Scotty Bowman in 1993, not after we got swept by New Jersey in the SCF in 1995. At first Bowman tried what all the other coaches tried with a team like Detroit - he played Yzerman and Fedorov a lot and we won a bunch of regular season games by outscoring people. But when we hit the playoffs, we'd choke - the year before against Toronto, without Bowman, we ran into a hot goalie, but the real franchise defining choke job was the one WITH Bowman, against Arturs Irbe and the San Jose Sharks. We absolutely could not deal with the trap, and we lost the series on a couple of Chris Osgood gaffes. So the narrative about the Wings became that we don't play defense and the goalie sucks; both of which might have been fair but also described other teams that got out of the first round, like ever. So Bowman went to Yzerman and told him we were going to do our own trap; called the left-wing lock. And in order to do that, we were going to have to roll four lines because playing defense wears you out more than scoring goals, or something. And Yzerman agreed, because he wanted to get out of the first round before we traded him, so he sold that idea to the rest of the roster. We also went out and got Vernon, because literally he was a goalie who had won a cup and thus we assumed he could you know, win a cup. Some combination of a veteran goalie, Yzerman buying into the trap, rolling four lines and selling that to the rest of the team, is why we went to the cup final in 1995. But the funny thing about Shanahan is that he doesn't even really come into the story until after we got over that hurdle, and found out we weren't an elite team yet. I don't know if you remember the Stanley Cup final against New Jersey, but we got absolutely mauled. Like they beat us into such a pulp that by game 3 you could see Wings forwards physically flinching before they went into a corner or after a puck in the offensive zone. They hit us, and hit us, and hit us until we quit. And the defining image from that series is still Vyacheslav Kozlov lying face down, half unconscious after Scott Stevens took his head off with a blindside check in game 2. Weird side story, that hit, which was absolutely not Kozlov's fault and should never have been legal, made Kozlov the poster-boy for the new "Soft Wings Never Win" narrative that was building at the time. It wasn't fair, Kozlov was a pretty tough guy and he played hurt, he was just a perimeter player - like a really dollar store kinda version of Mitch Marner. Everyone knows what happened in 1996 however; that was the year Colorado gooned us to death in the Western Conference Final and Claude Lemieux re-arranged Chris Draper's face with one of the dirtiest hits I've ever seen in my life as a hockey fan. After that series, the narrative was locked in - the Wings were a defensively responsible, highly-skilled, bunch of soft serve ice cream cone Europeans and Russians who would never win a Stanley Cup even with Yzerman; who was also hurt in the series. We traded for Shanahan two games into the next season pretty much entirely because of that hit on Kozlov, and the Lemieux "check" on Draper. The other thing is that a lot of people don't remember who we shipped out in that trade to get Shanahan - specifically Paul Coffey and Keith Primeau; guys who didn't really buy into the trap and played, yes, soft. Also the other thing people forget is that Shanahan wasn't just some random tough guy. We was like a #2 overall draft pick power forward who would put out 30 goal seasons at various points in his career. It's not like we traded for Colton Orr; would the Toronto Maple Leafs be better with one of the Tkachuk brothers? Sure, but so would most teams in the NHL and those guys don't come cheap. That's the level of player Shanahan was, if not slightly more valuable even. Anyway, I agree with Steve that folks simplify the story; but there's also an alternate universe out there were Steve Yzerman says "no, I want my 22 minutes a night and 100 points a season" and we trade him for Yashin, causing Bowman to retire four years early and never winning the cup. Anyway, thanks for letting me "remember some guys" and happier times for the franchise I root for.
The Red Wings weren’t just a team that could spend a ton of money. They spent it on the right players. They were 4th in payroll in 97 and 6th in 98. There were teams spending more and close to as much and either missing or barely scraping in the playoffs. The Rangers were spending $40 million and were just above .500. The Leafs were spending within $3-4 million less than Detroit and were last in the division in both years.
Fair point Adam...but what we find "unacceptable" changes as well. Do we accept Tommy Douglas despite being a eugenicist [Master degree in 1933 on the "abnormal family"]?
Why are we acting like hall would’ve picked Toronto 😳 if they have a history of losing I’m pretty sure Toronto would be his last resort. Also Tavares was such an over payment. This dude doesn’t deserve anything more than 8M, they could’ve save a couple mill on the cap
I like watching the Islanders. Barzal is an amazing, entertaining player. Eberle, Beauvillier, Bailey, Palmeiri, these are not just boring defensive players. The fourth line is the most fun to watch of all the fourth lines in hockey. Hate the take by these guys.
aaaaaand Habs just swept the Jets
@@ktowniecity7269 hot take, but not a chance in hell
@@ktowniecity7269 If it were random the leafs would've won at least 1 cup in the last 50 years.
@@ktowniecity7269 silly boy
Imagine winning 2 series on consecutive Monday nights 😒must be nice
It's warm and fuzzy, you'd like it
Don't worry, I'm sure you guys will find what you need to patch the hole for next season and it will be your turn then to do this. For now I just hope my Habs can lead the way and bring the cup and then hopefully you guys can make it back to back Canada cups
Can confirm, it is very nice
Its a safe and warm feeling watching the habs play there game and Price playing like 2014 Price! You all would enjoy it. Just start singing with us. "Ole ole ole ole"
🙃
As a casual hockey fan, the non-hockey content of SDPN makes it so much more engaging than other "pure" hockey podcasts. 👍
@@efng21 why you got to be like that man. They complemented the podcast. Also said they like hockey but also other things you don’t got to come at them for saying that they like the podcast for maybe a different reason then you
@@haydenwhite5877 Thank you, that's exactly it. The hockey talk is good, the non-hockey stuff gives it the extra. The crash course on random historical topics, zoo stories are always good for a laugh and whatever random tangent the guys go on.
@ 😂😂😂 You’re a knob
@ sure pal, stay mad
Full respect to Jesse defending the HABS
I sometime wish Jesse got to mute to other two (without them knowing) for five minutes every show and just talk about whatever, he's too funny!
He’s the sane, rational one. They need him.
That's one thing that's really pissing me off about leafs fans right now. Canadians are an absolute powerhouse and have proved they are just a better team but leafs fans prefer to pretend they are garbage so they can stew in hate over their team losing.
@@jdstibbs4242 or you could call them a juggernaut
@@nathanaunger6093 YES!
"Does Sidney Crosby have to put up with this?" Yes. Yes, always has. He has drawn a single penalty in each of the last 3 years (playoffs/bubble).
also Sid grew a pair about 4 years ago when he slashed Methot s thumb off. He figured it out, playoffs dont get called fair, refs suck. Deal with it.
lol more like the last 15 years he just used to wine to the refs about so he got no sympathy
@@KyleMacSkill living in 2006
@@ldgt1 no I'm saying he was unfairly abused his whole career but when he was younger he wined to the refs so didn't get the sympathy McDavid is getting
@@KyleMacSkill there's an h in whine
Congrats to the montreal canadiens in sweeping my jets. You guys deserved this series as we just couldnt recover.
Ps: its okay steve my opinion on the leafs hasnt changed either , nothing special
41-16 was rough af. Dubois needs to be sent packing, he was one of the Habs best players.
Your opinion is right lol
Jesse really mad the islanders play really good defense
I know 🤣 it’s a great defensive strategy. The team can’t score if they don’t have the puck. I can’t believe he whined about that
@@MAL8916 It might be good strategy but it's incredibly boring to watch.
@@kenised tell me you don’t watch the games without telling me you don’t watch the games. it really isn’t boring. the islanders have scored more 5v5 goals than any other team in the playoffs over the past three years. look at the game last night; 5-4. youre just salty, like every other whiny hockey fan that says the same thing, that the islanders don’t have a pampered, overhyped superstar to point to (a la crosby, mcdavid, matthews). the islanders are deep. cizikas is the best 4th line center in hockey. pageau is probably the best 3rd line center in hockey. beau and barzal are electric. pelech and pulock are a top 3 defensive pairing in the league. calling them boring is lazy and not true.
Kings of the North. The Habs just swept the Jets. And to conclude my night, I’m listening to my favourite podcast
Go Habs Go 🔵⚪️🔴
It is true that Yzerman became a better defensive player when Bowman came in. It is true that those Red Wings teams were amazing and Yzerman's decline in scoring coincided with lower scoring league-wide, but it's undeniable that Stevie focused on becoming defensively elite because of Bowman and it contributed to those Cups.
It’s not that Steve Yzerman didn’t become an important part of the red wings by becoming good defensively. It’s the narrative that Steve Yzerman learned to win by sacrificing goals to play a 200 foot game. When in reality we has already like 13 years into his career and in his 30s, he needed to become good defensively to remain an affective player because he wasn’t that guy anymore. Plus it wasn’t him learning how to be good defensively that won them the cups, it was having a stacked team with tons of future hall of gamers on it. So it can be true that he was better defensively and that helped with the cups but it was more out of necessity rather than choosing to sacrifice
@@nolan2235 Kyle, you're right. Nolan, the notion that Yzerman wasn't effective anymore and that he had to play defense because of that is flat out wrong.
But I love how people bend recent history to fit their narrative. Yes the Wings spend a lot of money and I am weeping for the Leafs that they had no money to spend and that they never tried to spend their way to the cup. Ahhh, poor Leafs. They would have tried if they had any money I guess. Ahhhhhhh.. So the '' they simply bought their way to the cup'' is bullshit too.
With Yzerman their first final was in 95 the last one in 2002. In that span, the League was dominated by three Western Conference Teams a) in the Standings and b) in he Play Offs. I love how Adams has strong a opinion but he doesn't know that important fact.
These three teams were the Wings, the Stars and the Avalanche.
In that span one of these three was the Western Conference participant in the Finals. They won six of eight cups. The Wings have won three . Between 96 and 02 the Wesern Conference Final was always played out between 2 of the 3 Teams. They were all filled with Superstars, Hall of Famers and fantastic players.
@@nolan2235 “When Jimmy Devallano approached me about coaching the Wings, I knew they had a lot of offense and weren’t a team starting from the bottom. They had some good players, but in the playoffs, they couldn’t get it done. Offense is a great thing, but a lot of times it can dry up, especially in the playoffs if you face a hot goaltender. Maybe you’ve feasted on the power play, but you may not get as many opportunities so you have to have a well-rounded team. Steve was a great offensive player and smart, but he wasn’t paying as much attention to defense because he was counted on to score. I told him that for this team to win his individual production was going to dip because he had to play more defense. He was an ultra-competitor, and I didn’t have to twist his arm because he wanted to win a Stanley Cup. The players respected him and they were going to follow suit, and if they didn’t, they weren’t going to stay. Steve worked hard on his faceoffs, and we started having him kill penalties. We had other great scorers like Sergei Fedorov, and had enough scoring, but we just needed to play some sound defense. We were fortunate that when we needed a player Mr. Ilitch let us do that.” - Scotty Bowman
I’m sure the Habs pay Price’s price like this:
Regular Season: 1.5M
Playoffs: 9M
That's about right
@@wagglewiggle nope more like 0.5M and 10M
Jesse’s islanders take aged.......... rather poorly tonight lmao
as is tradition
Jesses take on literally everything ages badly because he knows nothing about hockey
Steve I love you but really acting like Marchand isn’t a star? I don’t even like the guy but he’s one of the most well known players in the league
I'm a Boston homer and I could concede the Marchand argument because he's more known outside Boston for being "the rat" than for being an elite player. I'll die on the Bergeron hill though.
@@ngrosskurth Yeah, Bergeron is a class act.
Love the hockey talk. The discussion on Ryerson was a bit misleading however. He was not the architect of the Residential School system. He was an architect of a school system for indigenous peoples in Ontario before residential schools were a thing. These schools are not analogous to the horrow shows of what ended up being the residential school system in Canada. You can read more about it here: www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/egerton-ryerson-being-misjudged/
Here is an except describing the schools for indigenous people that Ryerson oversaw:
“Two schools were established. They would be supervised by the government, and run by the Methodists, just like most of the on-reserve schools. They differed markedly from later residential schools, however. Teaching was done by teachers trained for the regular school system, not by the clergy, and children could speak their own language. Attendance was voluntary. Religion was a subject in the curriculum, not a tool of forced conversion and assimilation. As a devout Christian, Ryerson would have been horrified by the abuses and cruelties later perpetrated on Indigenous children by residential schools.”
We need to stop talking about the "big four" in relation to cap strain. Nylander makes less than $7m (70th overall in the league) and is a steal at that price. It's the "big three" all making $11m'sh that is limiting what we're able to do financially.
I agree , although a steal is a bit generous. Its value though.
Peeps mostly remember than having him sign at fair market was worst than pulling teeths for management!
That's why he is lumped with the other three would be my guess...
He would be a steal if he played centre and contributed in his own end
@@SF1886 He's played centre and his only problem is being switched back and forth because playing C is much different than playing wing. He was nearly a goal a game player the whole playoffs. On top of that Nylander does a lot more in his own end than people give him credit for. He's constantly digging for pucks, he knows how to get them to Holl who is fantastic at making sure the puck exits with possession and the stats prove that. You watch the game going, ok when does Nylander do something I don't like so I can chirp him. So you see something here or there and you go, "awww see, what a screw up."
As an islanders fan i already love the title
23:53 Your welcome!
Jesse also ate his channel switch last night lmfao
It’s great to live in another fan bases head, isn’t it? I enjoyed it throughly as a Hawks fan when we had a rent free penthouse in the Blues fan’s heads.
bro i was screaming nathan mackinnon at my computer when they were trying to name hockey stars
Jesse Blake: the Islanders are just so painfully boring to watch, I have to turn it off. I hate that style of hockey
NY Islanders (Saints): most goals in the playoffs
Dubas gets rinsed in trades and contract talks, but hey other than that he's great. LOL
Not even man. Even if he was hurt he should be better he played like a healthy scratch depth forward this whole season almost
Blown away by the intelligent conversation about Egerton Ryerson (1:08:49)! Was not expecting to listen to a hockey podcast and learn about Canadian history. The way Adam & Jesse explained how access to information today is causing us to re-evaluate history was fascinating (1:22:00)! Thanks guys!
Loved that they talked about that, much respect to these guys its important extremely every statue should be ripped down of those who was a detriment to other people's culture, families, lifestyles etc
Steve Dangle vs Floyd Mayweather when?
The NHL doesn’t need to copy the NBA; call penalties when they’re deserved, stars or not. We shouldn’t tarnish the authenticity of the game for “marketability”.
Unfortunately they already have and it’s only going to get worse.
The amount of $10 million men in the 2nd round is less of a comment on how many stars are playing, and more an interesting thing to think about in regards to cap management.
Back at it
S
Woo!
The Leafs.....back at it.
@@masonjones582 D
Adam Wylde is salty as hell lmao
Idk if the islanders have “way way less talent” then any other team that was knocked out in the first round. Yeah if you took the top 5 players from each team the islanders may not be as good, but you start getting deeper the other teams will just run out of players, and right when that other team reaches its fourth line, the islanders throw out theirs with Martin, clutterbuck, and cizikas, and they just beat up on anyone.
Really really deep team with some insanely underrated talent like Nelson, Pagaeu, palmierri, Bailey, baeuvilliar, and probably the best defense duo in the league with Pelech and puloch who are able to completely shut down the penguins and bruins best players clearly
I think that's what we've been saying. They've made the best of what they have... like the squeezed every drop of talent out... and squeezed the life out of the teams they've faced. Play to your strengths, manage your weakenesses.
Islanders have the most goals in the playoffs by any team this season.
North vs west ; central vs east its the only way it'll work out
😄😄😄 Habs sweep and Islanders win a big game 5 in Boston as this is dropping.
Meanwhile hellebuyck becoming A one man team
I love that you guys think you're being smart by talking about the Marner deal as a bad thing when you were cheering when he signed. He plays astoundingly well, generates and scores goals and you're whining about it. Yes, he had a bad series. Yes, there needs to be improvement, but that doesn't mean you get rid of him immediately. The moment Marner gets traded, that team that gets him wins the cup. Almost guaranteed. This is truly pathetic and hypocritical analysis by you, and I wish you could see it.
Until Marner gets over his nerves then he ain't winning nothing! It's almost comical how awful he looks due to nervousness. And he will not help any other team either until he sees a therapist or something, he's as nervous as I would be out there, and yet he's been in these stressful situations his whole life!
@@creepyrobsta5509 and yet he performs well in the regular season, which gets us to the playoffs. Remove that and we're minus 47 assists and 20 goals, which doesn't get us to the playoffs.
So maybe a 24 year old needs help in the nervousness arena in the playoffs. So what? He will get over it.
The idea these guys are holding a mental health issue against Marner, and whining about salary and saying to essentially blow the team up over one contract is ridiculous and hypocritical.
SDPN.. Shattered Dreams Production Network
lol... oh my god
Dustin Runnels likes this.
@@ngrosskurth lol .. You got it
Steve talking about the islanders!? I am so here for this! Luv you guys! #LGI Edit: oof Jesse's take on defensive hockey is mind-boggling. Maybe if the Toronto Maple Leafs had a little bit more of what the Islanders have they wouldn't be on the golf course right now.
Surprised me 2
Both can be true tho. The way the islanders play can be/is a winning strategy and they do well because the NHL perpetuates that style of play through parity and officiation. But it’s boring to watch. If every team played like Colorado who are super fast and fun, hockey would gain way more viewership and be more exciting to watch. But to each their own I guess too. I just see the other major sports going towards more offence and out rating hockey consistently.
No disrespect to the Islanders, becuse at the end of the day winning is all that matters, but as a non Islanders fan I find their style of play to be extremely boring. And I think that's the point Jesse was trying to make. It's like the 90s with the Devils. Devils fans loved it, but casual fans hated it.
@@nolan2235 it's not like the bruins are scoring a ton of goals so why aren't they boring? You honestly think this series has been boring? On either team's end?
@@csolivais1979 again it boggles my mind that you or anyone else would think that this series has been boring! I love Steve and the crew but the fact that Toronto barely scored any goals and everyone screaming about high offense high offense and so little teams producing that is hypocritical.
I think it’s safe to say the Maple Leafs right now are the pre-04 Red Sox, of the NHL. A team which had significant success in the early years of the league, in one of the most important markets in said league. Legendary players, past and present, loyal passionate fans, long championship drought, and enough tragic heartbreak to make Titanic look like a comedy by comparison.
jesse complaining because the islanders are too good defensively... a true fan enjoys all aspects of the game
Marner definitely deserves a lot of the blame, but its hard to put it all on him. The Leafs just needed one thing to go right, and none did. If Tavares, or Foligno didn't get hurt, if Hyman or Matthews produced a little more, if Simmonds, Mickeyev, Brooks or Engvall got a goal. If Galchenyuk, Dermott or Sandin just didn't make some of the worst passes in history, the Leafs win. Yes Marner definitely did not live up to his ability, but the Leafs just needed one thing to happen and they would have won. And lets not forget, 2018 Marner led the series in scoring, 2019 Marner had 2 huge goals to win game 1 and 3 amazing blocks to win game 5. In 2020, Marner was the reason for all 3 goals in the miracle comeback. He has had good playoff moments, and to blame this entire thing on Marner when Hyman was a non factor and the Rocket Richer winner got 1 goal, seems a little dramatic.
didn't start watching hockey because of big names. i started because of teams, specifically wanting to see the Leafs improve. so much for that.
The way they ignore calls in the playoffs has to be hurting the NHL's ratings in the long run. 17/18 of the top paid players are out of the playoffs which would draw more fans if the star players would actually get some calls.
nonsense
Last one is price?
Maybe if good players didn't stay/go to non playoff teams for a ton of money (Panarin to the Rangers, Jack Eichel staying in Buffalo, Erik Karlsson to a San Jose team on the decline) more "stars" would make the playoffs. According to Capfriendly.com 11 of the top 20 cap hits made the playoffs and 4 (Carey Price at #9, Andrei Vasilevskly, Nikita Kucherov and Mark Stone tied at #16) maybe the issue is more an indicative of the fact that top heavy teams like Toronto and Edmonton aren't the way to go in the playoffs since deeper, more financially balanced teams like Tampa, Boston, the Islanders and even Vegas seem to more consistently make deeper playoff runs.
@@ulmwilliams57 Tampa's not a great example. Look at that team on capfriendly. They have so many huge contracts, they just have the right superstar players that are at the right stage of their career.
@@Marixa1979 the reason I picked the Lightning is that while they have a lot of huge contracts they were savvy/ruthless enough to keep everyone's cap hit under $10mil, they're gonna be in absolute cap hell this offseason for sure, but they'll have won 1 or 2 cups before they lose that talent in the crunch to come. Contrast this with a team like the Leafs that has 50% of the Cap tied up in 4 players and can't keep mid tier guys around as a result
Put some respect on the islanders name this team is Lou version of the devils of the 90’s
Do you remember watching the Devils in the 90s? It's boring. The Islanders are a good team, don't get me wrong, but it's boring if you are not an Islanders fan.
@@csolivais1979 it’s really not. you know who is boring; the oilers and the leafs. watching regular season teams crumble in the playoffs is boring. the islanders play fun playoff hockey; the hits, the clean passing, the putting the bodies on the line for blocks, the sneaky good players in barzal, beau, pageau, nelson, bailey, one of the best d pairings in the league (pelech, pulock). they aren’t colorado or VGK but they’re different. colorado and VGK are like coke; fast, loose, exciting, but short lived. the islanders are a glass of whisky and cigar; slow, steady, comfortable, interesting. both have their place in hockey.
I have been a Red Wings fan since 1982. What was said about Shanahan being the player that changed everything in Detroit is incorrect. Bowman was brought in after we lost in Round 1 in 1993. When the team lost again in Round 1 in 1994 Bowman completely restructured the team. The first step was Mike Vernon trade. The 1995 Red Wings were fantastic. We went to The Cup Finals, only losing 2 games along the way. That team knew how to win but The Devils who did win beat us. The following season we lost in the conference finals to The Champs that season Colorado. At the start of the 1997 season we traded for Shanahan. He was a big part of how The Wings were finally able to slay the dragon that was Colorado but he wasn't THE reason.
22:22 Is Jesse only excited by the puck going to the net? Why hate the Isles' game *that* strongly? There's a lot more fun to hockey than shots and the Isles led in playoff goals when this was uploaded, Bruins also shot A LOT so I'm not sure what the problem is, the most boring game the Isles played that I saw was the last regular season game against the Caps in 2015
the islanders, who have scored the most goals of any team this postseason, is a boring, defense-only snooze fest. LMAO. just admit you don’t watch the games and regurgitate stale talking points.
Are you guys hockey fans or just Leafs homers...? Come on
In terms of the Amazon documentary, I think they got the 2nd best ending possible. The best obviously being the Leafs winning it all.
But like for their series trying to disect what went wrong, and maybe picking up early warning signs could be way more fascinating than if the Leafs were to make the Final 4 then lose in like 5 or 6 games. That would've be such an anti-climax for their TV Show.
Pokemon, you always lose
I love how people bend recent history to fit their narrative. Yes the Wings spend a lot of money and I am weeping for the Leafs that they had no money to spend and that they never tried to spend their way to the cup. Ahhh, poor Leafs. They would have tried if they had any money I guess. Ahhhhhhh.. So the '' they simply bought their way to the cup'' is bullshit too.
With Yzerman their first final was in 95 the last one in 2002. In that span, the League was dominated by three Western Conference Teams a) in the Standings and b) in he Play Offs. I love how Adams has strong a opinion but he doesn't know that important fact.
These three teams were the Wings, the Stars and the Avalanche.
In that span one of these three was the Western Conference participant in the Finals. They won six of eight cups. The Wings have won three . Between 96 and 02 the Wesern Conference Final was always played out between 2 of the 3 Teams. They were all filled with Superstars, Hall of Famers and fantastic players.
Question for Steve,
Do you think the 2013 Chicago Blackhawks were good? (I’ll assume you say yes because they very clearly were)
Why were they down 3-1 against Detroit? By your logic good teams should never be down 3-1 yet there’s countless examples of it.
I genuinely don't enjoy watching playoff hockey. Its boring, the rules are removed and its no longer hockey. I want to watch hockey, not who can get away with more infractions because the integrity of the league is at an all time low. I want to watch hockey were everyone's situation is the same, not every American team effectively having 40% more cap space because of taxes. I love watching the leafs play, i hate how they cant play the playoff game because they are trying to play hockey, and every team they play against is trying to run the other team out of the building every time. Mcdavid had 40 infractions against him in 4 games and drew exactly 0 penalties. Its a broken system and league playoffs take the highly skilled version of hockey and dumbs it down so everyone can play, except of course the highly skilled players.
Me : Every time Jesse speaks 🤮
Blow me Jesse. Go Islanders!!!!!
And BTW, the Isles have the most goals in the playoffs right now.
Flower is winning the vezina
maybe the reason the highest paid players are not in the playoffs anymore is because they take too much of the salary cap meanwhile it has nothing to do with officiating!
Problem: What is the regular season actually worth? The NHL has a real Jekyll and Hyde thing going on with season vs. playoffs.
Colorado/Vegas winning it all is the only way you can argue the regular season has value anymore.
22:50 I think you mean the best hockey! 💙🧡😁
He’s just salty. LET’S GO ISLANDERS!
I’d be willing to wager the number of subscribers of this podcast drop a good, 35-50% if the Leafs were any good... But they aren’t and here we are!
Steve it hurts bad but we are not built for playoff hockey. They get those greasy goals and capitalize on it. We dont have that. We want fancy goals not just goals
I understand the point you're trying to make, when you talk about Ryerson.
The issue I have is that you dramatically exaggerate what he did. He was quoted as saying something about "instilling 'civilization' in [indigenous communities]". Admittedly, a pretty shity thing to say.
However, he was long dead before the first real residential schools started. He played almost no role in their actual creation. None.
I even read an article, I think the National Post I want to say, talking about how one of his most trusted friends was an Ojibway priest, and he even spoke Ojibway himself. He apparently had close ties and connections to indigenous communities at the time.
Again I get the overall point you're making here, but it's important to get all of the facts straight. Did he say something terrible once? Yes he did. And we should talk about that more, and provide adequate historical context. But there are WAY worse people that we need to worry about. This just isn't the hill to die on.
I'm also not a fan of the idea of mass mobs tearing down historical pieces, whether good or bad. This time it's a statue. Is it a book burning next week? But that's a separate issue.
Btw, this is coming from an Indigenous person, not that it should matter.
Ryserson isn't being erased from history or burnt, the school with his name on it is being rebranded. Companies do this all the time to try and resuscitate their profits, but it becomes a social issue and suddenly everyone loses their minds. It's all just polemic.
the storyline that the islanders are “boring” and “way, way, way less talented” is honestly lazy and unfounded at this point. you’re just repeating old talking points because everyone else is saying it. watch the games. you’re telling me big hits, timely goals and fantastic goaltending is boring? nah it’s intense and enthralling. you’re telling me the team that has the best fourth line, the best fourth line center in hockey (cizikas), the best third line center (pageau), one of the best d pairings (pelech, pulock), electric young studs in barzal and beau, and unsung vets in nelson, bailey, palmieri, eberle is an untalented team? you can be talented without have the overpaid, pampered star.
Vegas dominated them in game 2 but took a terrible penalty which cost them in ot otherwise it could have been 3-1 Vegas because wow these 3 games they have been good
Trocheck scored 34 points in 55 games the year after his breakout 75 point season. The following year when he was traded 36 in 55. The Panthers thought he peaked and if he stayed in Florida they are probably right. Haula scored 55 in 76 with Vegas his first year and then had a few injuries the next two years even playing just 15 games in 18-19. For Florida who was cutting costs moving a 50 point guy in Trocheck for Haula a potential 50 point guy some depth and prospects it's not a bad swap. The problem is in Carolina Trocheck has thrived with superior talent around him and now looks a lot closer to the 75 point guy than the 55 point guy he was every other year.
I need Adam to stop talking to me about my genitals with so much enthusiasm.
Teams Go through waves and right now they're a hot team. Somebody tell me again how the playoffs aren't a completely random dice roll that just favours whatever team is going through one of these ways or on a hot streak? We should be celebrating the first team in the NHL every year with the parade. That is a true testament to the best team in the NHL through a long hard arduous season. There is no luck involved in finishing first in the NHL during the regular season. There is a whole ton of luck in winning the playoffs.
As a Leafs fan, the Montreal series was painful. However, Montreal had a great start and played well in the 1st half of the season. They limped into the playoffs but found their game again. Habs aren't a bad team, just surprising.
Everyone keeps forgetting that Hall would’ve cost too much cap space and who knows if he ‘truly’ wanted to come to Toronto, that’s why Boston only paid a second round pick cause that’s where he wanted to go…enough with the “we should’ve gone for Hall” takes
@@efng21 Explain three ways if there are multiple.
@@efng21 Don't call him ignorant just because you're a sad pathetic Leafs fan.
@@efng21 Also that's not ignorance idiot, there is a case for general lack of knowledge, not ignorance, as ignorance points to a larger issue as a whole, whereas this is pointing towards the pettiness of one person, you.
The Habs aren't a great team. The Jets suck ass. The Leafs blew it.
I love how all three of these guys can’t see how the North is the weakest. By far. No team defence. Great offence but virtually no team defence. It was a glorified OHL. Yes the other divisions had shitters but the North had 7 teams and they all choked in the playoffs except Montreal
One point I’d like to add.Mitch Marner demanded to be overpaid due to the fact that Lou never gave him the bonuses he felt he deserved on his previous contract.
There's no bloody chance that Lou would've caved to Marner's demands of $11M per season.
Marner never deserved those bonuses
Steve pegged Logan Paul bang on. I live in Japan now (from Vancouver) and he really embarrassed himself here. The Japanese hated him. It's sad that that's how you get famous and make money on the internet but basic guys who like yourself who make sincere stuff can't. It's messed.
Be fair guys. No matter who comes out of the North isn't beating many other teams
Comparing McDavid's 8 games without drawing a penalty (which is a bit of a stretch) to *basketball*, the game with the most ridiculous foul rules of all time, is insane.
Brad Marchand is a top 5 player in the league Pasta is a star. Hall is argueable still a star.. MacKinnon is a bonafied star. Price is a star. Fluery is a star. I mean the only team without star talent is the Islanders.
I think the Isles have several stars...they just do not shine as brightly because they play defense first- they have commitment to a 200 foot game. There are several players who can score when needed....
@@georgebartlett8576 They do not. It's got nothing to do with defense first most of the "stars" were part of the team before the Trotz era. They simple aren't that good. Barzal is a number 2 center on most of the better teams in the league and he is argueably the best player they have. They play the trap for a reason. Because they don't have enough talent to do anything else. Nashville and Washington both played more open systems under him. He adjusted to what he had.
Hall is not a star. Marchand is super talented, but a bonehead who commits stupid penalties. Not top 5. maybe top 10. Pastrnak is very offensively skilled, but incredible one dimensional. He is pretty much invisible unless he has the puck on his stick on the right dot. Not a star in my opinion, but a great goal scorer. Mackinnon is a star. Fleury is a star. I would say Mark Stone is better than anyone on boston too. The islanders have the deepest team left in the playoffs. I do think they have stars that aren’t known as stars yet, but will be soon (barzal, pelech, pulock, sorokin, beau, oliver wahlstrom). plus, i would say the islanders best players play a more complete game than almost any other teams “stars.”
@@exturkconner your definition of star is ridiculously narrow and over relies on goals. goals aren’t the only metric. i’m sorry auston matthews may be a rocket richard winner, but if he can’t do it in the playoffs he is not a star. he is a very talented offensive weapon, but not a star in my book until he adds to his game and wins in the playoffs.
@@MrMtc228 Seems like your definition is the narrow one. And also very obtose. Bad players can have good playoff runs that doesn't make them stars. And certainly the player who's likely to be the best goal scorer of the next generation is a star. And I stand by what I said Brad Marchand 100% is a top 5 player. He draws way more penalties than he takes and is dynamic both offensively and defensively. He's an every situation player.
If you look around your city and google the people schools are named after and google the statues of colonialists and straight up bad people, you start to wonder why we're still honoring them.
As a Red Wings fan, I’d instead say the more relevant comparison is to the early 2000s Wings, where we had amazing regular seasons but then lost in first round upsets to Anaheim, Edmonton, and Calgary - the teams that beat us always made it to the cup finals, but it didn’t make the disappointment any softer. All it took was a few more years of seasoning and experience, as well as some luck from the hockey gods - for us to finally make it to the back to back cup finals against Pittsburgh
One of the top 17 cap hits in the league is still playing, that is an indictment of the game and its officiating, a blatant one. This league skews towards clutch and grab and grinding in the playoffs and they are proud of it. This game is broken. Adam is right, perhaps the best thing we'll see happen to this game is US broadcasters paying big bucks for NHL rights.
Lmao Steve's takes on who's a star left in the playoffs is absolutely ridiculous. To even hesitate on whether or not Marchand and Bergeron are stars is insane. There's tons of stars left in the playoffs, they just are paid significantly less than the highest paid stars.
Not enough time on Mang in the WHC, but understandable. Watch this dude next year. He was MVP for the Flames this year, and he'll double that next year.
I am wondering why Adam lectures about the purpose of University when he dropped out before learning the purpose of University.
Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand, Pasta, McAvoy, Carlo and Rask total 41 millions.
Which is why as a Bruins fan I don't see Rask resigning this summer.
Habs fellas. Take notes for dubas and keefe. That’s how you close. Time to stop being salty and check out the games they are playing. Shots 40-16, o zone time almost 2-1. That’s a good team.
No... pass
And yes Stevie did take a back seat to goal scoring because Scotty told the entire team buy into this system or go somewhere else and guys like Sergei hated being in that position until he started getting recognition to play consistently.
Steve Yzerman was always on and never took a shift off and unlike you sad saps i watched them win 4 stanley cups being a teen early 20s so i got to enjoy every win.
Cant wait to be back where we belong.
Adam you'll be somewhat happy to know that the US Congress voted and passed a bill to rename the US bases named after Confederates to people who aren't traitors! The President approved a Commission and they're working on changing them over the next 3 years. Thanks as always for the history corner.
Dangle needs therapy now . i saw the moment in game 7 when you saw 60k in chat then realized its over hahaha
I disagree that every statue needs to be of someone who lived like a saint, the reality is very few people important/remarkable enough to warrant a statue throughout history have lived without doing terrible things. A statue could be of a saint, a villain, or just someone who made an impact in any major way. It's just history written in the form of a sculpt, a visual representation that might spread knowledge more effectively than a page written in a history book on a dusty library shelf.
I agree with you. Statues have value as a point of potential interest, frequently of the location they are placed. they can have uses to those who actually care enough to look into what event or person they are about. it's not a statues fault the populace around it doesn't know how to use it as a point of discovery, especially when what gets put in it's place has less historical value.
I prefer recontextualization if it must be done with a chisel as opposed to a sledgehammer, but the sledgehammer is more the in thing.
Now that the Habs are through: if they lose to either Vegas or Colorado, the North Division still doesn't come out looking too bad. Those are the top two teams in the league, they may slaughter all comers. Only the teams that got wiped by the 18th seed should be embarrassed.
Lou = 3 Cups Kyle = Calder Cup with Mariles,
Lou = no player under over 10M Kyle = 3 players over 10M
Lou's team = heart Kyle's team = All skill no will
Kyle gave up a first and fourth for a likely rental in Foligno
Kyle has traded way the Leafs depth ( Kapanen, Johnsson, Kadri ( Barrie Kerfoot)
Lou = hires an experienced coach that won a Stanley Cup
Kyle = hires a Keefe a coach with hardly any coaching experience in the NHL
Kyle's we can and will motto has pretty much screwed this team!
In conclusion: They got kept the wrong GM
Oh I forgot to add Kyle: will likely lose Hyman
Montreal gets swept in round 3.
We heard that one 2 times already, so it kinda lost it's impact at this point
The Maple Leafs are out of it eliminated isn't it time Steve shaves lol
Ted Rogers University. The business school is already named after him and you get to keep the Ram. (Also Reyerson becomes named after a U of T and York alum which I think is hilarious)
Steve, Adam, and Jessie, on the next podcast can you guys talk about how bruce Cassidy got fined for his comments about the officiating but Trotz recieved nothing for calling Bergeron a cheater. The following game not a single islanders player got kicked out of the faceoff dot, while bergeron got kicked out 4 times. I am trying to view this from an objective perspective and this really frustrates me. I would love to hear your guys opinoin on this
Habs sweeping as we speak.
I love how offended people get that the Isles dummy their team and have to change the channel.
Jesse would rather watch the NBA which is 1,000 times more boring than 20 years ago.
Oh boy...that Lou Lamerello stat main me howl...hes won 6 series since leaving the Leafs org..oh boy.
I knew the Leafs should have kept him until at least the contract negotiations were finished.
Every Habs win in this series really just makes the Oilers just look worse
@@KneeJerkReactions13 As of now, the team that swept the Oilers just got swept by the team who barely beat the Leafs. The Oilers got swept in their first legitimate play-off appearance since 2017 (The 2020 Play-in apparently doesn't count) and the team responsible for that sweep, in turn, couldn't even score one win against a team who has a great goalie, and maybe two good scorers. The Oilers lost to a team of losers and that makes them double losers and I hate this team.
-Signed, an Oilers fan
If the stars belong in the playoffs, they will make it there. This is disregarding Patrick Kane (won 3 times), Sidney Crosby and Malkin (won twice), Ovechkin, Bergeron, Pasta, Marchand, Fleury, Thornton, Stamkos, Kucherov, Marleau, McDavid, Draisaitel (spelling) and more have all been past round 1. AND, if you cannot beat boring hockey, you don't belong in the playoffs. It's a legit strat, quit complaining.
Hot Habs Summer
"It's just the top three goalies in wins."
Never mind that Grubauer leads the league with Varlamov with 7 shutouts, but distinguishes himself as both under 2.0 GAA, which is 2nd among goalies who played at least 20 games (the only other two are Fleury and Nedeljkovic), and .922%, which is 8th among goalies who played at least 20 games, and 2nd to only Vasilevskiy of those who played at least 40 games, which of which there are only 5 in this 56-game season.
Vas certainly should win it IMO, for nothing else but his sv% vs the amount of shots Tampa allows (2nd most in the league to Hellebuyck), but Grubauer is legitimately in the conversation.
I'm going to make the saddest fan post on a five week old podcast, but here goes: I agree with Steve that the legend of Yzerman learning to love defense is pretty overblown, but as someone who lived and died with that team as a teenager and young adult, it's not totally fiction.
What a lot of people don't remember is that the Wings hired Scotty Bowman in 1993, not after we got swept by New Jersey in the SCF in 1995. At first Bowman tried what all the other coaches tried with a team like Detroit - he played Yzerman and Fedorov a lot and we won a bunch of regular season games by outscoring people. But when we hit the playoffs, we'd choke - the year before against Toronto, without Bowman, we ran into a hot goalie, but the real franchise defining choke job was the one WITH Bowman, against Arturs Irbe and the San Jose Sharks. We absolutely could not deal with the trap, and we lost the series on a couple of Chris Osgood gaffes. So the narrative about the Wings became that we don't play defense and the goalie sucks; both of which might have been fair but also described other teams that got out of the first round, like ever.
So Bowman went to Yzerman and told him we were going to do our own trap; called the left-wing lock. And in order to do that, we were going to have to roll four lines because playing defense wears you out more than scoring goals, or something. And Yzerman agreed, because he wanted to get out of the first round before we traded him, so he sold that idea to the rest of the roster. We also went out and got Vernon, because literally he was a goalie who had won a cup and thus we assumed he could you know, win a cup. Some combination of a veteran goalie, Yzerman buying into the trap, rolling four lines and selling that to the rest of the team, is why we went to the cup final in 1995.
But the funny thing about Shanahan is that he doesn't even really come into the story until after we got over that hurdle, and found out we weren't an elite team yet.
I don't know if you remember the Stanley Cup final against New Jersey, but we got absolutely mauled. Like they beat us into such a pulp that by game 3 you could see Wings forwards physically flinching before they went into a corner or after a puck in the offensive zone. They hit us, and hit us, and hit us until we quit. And the defining image from that series is still Vyacheslav Kozlov lying face down, half unconscious after Scott Stevens took his head off with a blindside check in game 2. Weird side story, that hit, which was absolutely not Kozlov's fault and should never have been legal, made Kozlov the poster-boy for the new "Soft Wings Never Win" narrative that was building at the time. It wasn't fair, Kozlov was a pretty tough guy and he played hurt, he was just a perimeter player - like a really dollar store kinda version of Mitch Marner.
Everyone knows what happened in 1996 however; that was the year Colorado gooned us to death in the Western Conference Final and Claude Lemieux re-arranged Chris Draper's face with one of the dirtiest hits I've ever seen in my life as a hockey fan. After that series, the narrative was locked in - the Wings were a defensively responsible, highly-skilled, bunch of soft serve ice cream cone Europeans and Russians who would never win a Stanley Cup even with Yzerman; who was also hurt in the series. We traded for Shanahan two games into the next season pretty much entirely because of that hit on Kozlov, and the Lemieux "check" on Draper.
The other thing is that a lot of people don't remember who we shipped out in that trade to get Shanahan - specifically Paul Coffey and Keith Primeau; guys who didn't really buy into the trap and played, yes, soft. Also the other thing people forget is that Shanahan wasn't just some random tough guy. We was like a #2 overall draft pick power forward who would put out 30 goal seasons at various points in his career. It's not like we traded for Colton Orr; would the Toronto Maple Leafs be better with one of the Tkachuk brothers? Sure, but so would most teams in the NHL and those guys don't come cheap. That's the level of player Shanahan was, if not slightly more valuable even.
Anyway, I agree with Steve that folks simplify the story; but there's also an alternate universe out there were Steve Yzerman says "no, I want my 22 minutes a night and 100 points a season" and we trade him for Yashin, causing Bowman to retire four years early and never winning the cup.
Anyway, thanks for letting me "remember some guys" and happier times for the franchise I root for.
Dangle Navy strong right now we need help through this bro we need some answers lol
Steve needs to have a hockey summit with THG.
Steve's incapacity to give Montreal any credit whatsoever makes me smile. Please continue, your tears are so salty and delicious.
The Red Wings weren’t just a team that could spend a ton of money. They spent it on the right players. They were 4th in payroll in 97 and 6th in 98. There were teams spending more and close to as much and either missing or barely scraping in the playoffs. The Rangers were spending $40 million and were just above .500. The Leafs were spending within $3-4 million less than Detroit and were last in the division in both years.
Fair point Adam...but what we find "unacceptable" changes as well. Do we accept Tommy Douglas despite being a eugenicist [Master degree in 1933 on the "abnormal family"]?
Why are we acting like hall would’ve picked Toronto 😳 if they have a history of losing I’m pretty sure Toronto would be his last resort. Also Tavares was such an over payment. This dude doesn’t deserve anything more than 8M, they could’ve save a couple mill on the cap
You don’t care if people disagree with you? Can I borrow your crystal ball Adam?
I like watching the Islanders. Barzal is an amazing, entertaining player. Eberle, Beauvillier, Bailey, Palmeiri, these are not just boring defensive players. The fourth line is the most fun to watch of all the fourth lines in hockey. Hate the take by these guys.