Speed Metal Bands Debate with Martin Popoff | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- LOCK HORNS: SPEED METAL revisits the heyday of '80s metal to add a new branch to our metal family tree. Special guest host Daniel Dekay welcomes back guest journalist and author Martin Popoff to debate the most essential bands of this style. Join us LIVE on Thursday May 4 at 4pm EST. And don't forget: come ready to fight!
Subscribe to BangerTV: bit.ly/1KkhxWW
Sign up for updates: bangertv.com/
Like us on Facebook: on. 1KkhNW6
Follow us on Twitter: bit.ly/1Rkm5SL
Follow us on Instagram: bit.ly/1KkigY8
Check out BANGER's Apple Music playlists: applemusic.com/...
Watch more Lock Horns Debates:
bit.ly/2cCPcTG
bangertv.com
Daniel did a great job. Hope he gets to host another episode in the future!
Also, Martin Popoff totally needs to host a podcast (if he doesn't already).
Martin's knowledge of old metal is very impressive.
I want to be that guy
Martin Popoff is excelent for this type of shows, he knows his shit and make great arguments and comments.
Wow, Daniel is a good host.
UtopiaDistopica I don't know how much, if any, experience he has, but he really did do a great job and sounds A LOT like Sam.
Addendum: having watched the whole episode now, he has to have a lot of experience.
he was a little off on the beginning but relaxed and got better by the time they were talking about venom
Speed Metal is usually considered less abrasive and more melodic than thrash metal, showing less influence from hardcore punk. However, speed metal is usually faster and more aggressive than traditional heavy metal, also showing more inclination to virtuoso soloing and featuring short instrumental passages between couplets also Speed Metal songs frequently make use of highly expressive vocals, but are usually less likely to employ 'harsh' vocals than thrash metal songs
That's the same idea I had, but for Popoff another characteristic of Speed is having a low-fi sound, that's new for me, I know Venom wasn't very picky about their production hehe, but I wouldn't consider them as the typical and most iconic SM band.
I pretty much agree with that description, was into all those bands coming up the ranks back then. But got into Thrash more, and then the more obscure technical Thrash bands \m/.
Would a band like Loudness be speed metal?
So neoclassical (yngwie) seems much closer to speed metal than thrash metal...
Re: Loudness ("Devil Soldier" July 21 1982) - I would think so, along with Accept ("Restless and Wild" Oct. 2 1982) they released albums that had "speed metal" songs before Metallica's Kill 'em All (July 25 1983) :). Exciter's "Heavy Metal Maniac" came out before Kill 'em All as well on Jan. 14 1983. Also Loudness ("Law of the Devil's Land" Jan. 21 1983) and Savatage ("Sirens" Nov. 1 1983).
This is pretty far from my usual tastes in metal, but holy shit did I enjoy this episode! Daniel pulled it off really well for his first time hosting Lock Horns and it's always a pleasure to see Martin Popoff as guest on the show.
I love your excitement Daniel Dekay, was fun watching you! Please host again!
it starts at 4:40 your welcome ;)
music professor ! *you're
really? The guy just saved you 4 minutes of blank noise and stare and you retribute him with grammar nazi shit?
daliend exactly
thanks :)
ThanKes dU'de XD
I believe that Fenriz from darkthrone has that speed metal wheel tattooed on his arm!
Bring back 80s speed metal
No agent steeel?
they've been the quentisensial american speed metal band ,since 1984
Agent steel is there
@@fungifago Thanks for telling me
Good job Daniel. You should make your own show on Banger or elsewhere !
Thanks! You can catch Daniel on BangerTV doing interviews regularly. More coming soon!
Fantastic job Daniel ! really enjoyed this as i lived through that whole early eighties period and i have to say , to this day , i still ain't sure what "speed" metal is ? great vid ..... again .rock on dudes
FYI, 'penultimate' means 'second to last'.
Love the show!
Scanner - Germany. Perfect Speed Metal Band.
Damon Scott: also Terminal Earth, Ball of the Dammed and my personal favorite Mental Reservation.
I think Terminal Earth is my all time favorite album but I always considered that pure power metal.
Two cool new Speed/Heavy bands with badass vocals :
Vanik, Lethal Shock
MrOvipare Vanik! nice! Check out Vulture too
Thanks Daniel to bring up RANGER, they are great. Best in Finland right now!!!!!
Speed metal to me is the first two Anthrax albums..Agent Steel.. Megadeth.Flotsam.
Powermad
Exciter
Helstar
Fine line between power metal and 80s speed metal
Some of this was right on and others made me angry just like any pedantic genre debate should. Speed metal is an extremely broad yet specific genre that almost boils into a math equasion. Take Motorhead and Judas Priest and find the average for the starting point. The end is when Power Metal and Thrash split into separate genres. To me Accept is the definition of speed metal because it the middle point between everything. Helloween is the end of speed and start of Power while Annihilator stylistically is the end border between Speed and Thrash. Speed is that grey area and that's why it can be so easily split into the cleaner Iron Maiden/Dio influenced side and more aggressive Motorhead/Vemon influenced side. Sex Machineguns out of Japan seemed like the refinement of the Speed Metal sound. Fast technical and clean but still aggressive with a raspy edge. Traditional metal with the speed cranked up.
John Stevens YES to all that comment!
John Stevens very good post
Where's Holy Terror, Living Death, Destructor, Agent Steel? I don't understand metal anymore... :(
Agreed. Agent Steel should be up there!
Abattoir !
Does anyone else agree that Agent Steel is definitely speed metal but they are the only speed metal band that doesn’t sound remotely like any other examples of speed metal?
@@ScreamBloodyGwar I do
This is one of the best episodes of Lock Horns- full of great knowledge, geeky enthusiasm and energy. Awesome stuff!
Daniel Dekay was a fucking excellent host!
Major props to Banger in getting some really fantastic hosts and guests lately. Dekay has been a great host and guest and Sarah's reviews are some of the BEST metal record reviews I have seen online.
Terrific.
Thanks! Means alot. We want to represent the diversity of the metal community with people who live it and love it. More to come!
What about Savage Grace and the Master of Disguise album?
One of the best
They werent turtley enough for the turtle club
Motorhead were Speed Metal before there was a term for that Genre
Motorhead were the Definition of Speed Metal \m/
They are a big big influence, no argument about that but only aims of their songs were under the speed metal genre, but they were far more diverse from almost bluesy metal at times to Punk influenced metal. I would put Venom instead since they took Motorheads heaviest and fastest music and took it further and dirtier
Thin Lizzy and UFO predate Motorhead and they were kinda fast as well.
That was a fantastic episode of Lock Horns. You'll need to revisit that branch down the line so you can put some of the newer bands on there.
Speed Metal has always been my favorite metal sub genre. I can’t believe lots of people try to invalidate it. My picks for favorite speed metal songs “Killing Machine” by Living Death, “Thundersteel” by Riot, “Roadwar” by Risk.
I’m happy there is new speed metal bands out now too! Vulture is a great example of that.
Great episode guys! I thought Daniel did a great job filling in for Sam. He really brought his own personality to the gig. Of course Martin is always a great guest, so much knowledge, and his positions are always well thought out and researched. This was a good bounce back after last week's Essential Death Metal albums episode, which turned into a bit of a debacle in my view. I was so glad Daniel brought up Ranger at the end, I was really hoping they would get added. Some other newer bands worthy of mention: Whipstriker, Savage Master, Baphomet's Blood and Vulture.
I for one really enjoyed Daniel as a host
Well done Daniel. Not easy taking on the hosting duties, but you nailed it. Lots of enthusiasm and knowledge. And what more can you say about Martin that hasn't already been stated. He's called the walking encyclopedia of metal for a reason !
Whoo hoo!! Metal Church finally in the proper branch. They are not thrash, the were early power metal/ speed metal. Thrust???Holy shit man.. Posers will die!!
Metal Church were a thrash/power/speed mix. There's thrash influence and riffs throughout their early albums.
Peter, maybe you should switch the genres.. metal church is a speed / power metal band
Good shit Daniel, I'd love to see you more often either as a guest or a host
WARRANT - THE ENFORCER!
Not one mention of Acid. They were just as important (and contemporaneous) as Exciter.
Glenn, Why wasn't Steeler mentioned? Their self titled lp was released back in 1983..after yngwie immigrated to the States
That's right I heard them from Ian Christie's Sound of the Beast under proto Thrash Metal or Speed Metal.
Acid and Killer are two classic speed metal bands out of Belgium.
love all the Voivod shirts abounding on this channel.
Going back and watching some of the missed two West Coast bands I think you missed are Vicious Rumours and Abbatoir! Just my two cents.
Although they derived into Thrash, Anthrax 1st. album is an absolute Speed Metal classic. And I'm not sure how to categorize Motörhead, probably they are a genre by their own.
Morbidous I've never considered anthrax thrash, among the living is their only thrash album in my opinion
I've gotten into debates with people about Fistful of Metal really being Speed Metal and not Thrash. I would even say Slayer's Show No Mercy is more Speed Metal than Thrash. The only debut album IMO to come from the big 4 that sounded like Thrash was Kill Em All.
I'm an old fucker from the 80s.. Scott Ian did a interview in 85 promoting Spreading the Disease and said Anthrax plays power metal...I heard it with my own metal sizzled ears
INC. UBUS don’t forget, at the time the term thrash didn’t exist yet. I don’t think power metal meant then what it does now either(hell, Anselmo called Pantera a Power Groove).
This episode was fucking exciting, intense and enriching for me. Popoff´s knowledge is next level. So great to see that the team at Banger is growing, its always great to see Sam, but Daniel did also amazing by giving humor to the show and being himself all the time (not that Dunn isn´t). Fucking love this show, you literally have the discussions that I would like to have in my daily life with random people or friends.
Stay true.
Thanks man. Means a lot!
Daniel givin' Ohio some love with the Vindicator shirt. Speaking of Ohio, I feel like Ohio & all other US states & Canadian provinces could have their own episodes' worth of material. I know you guys just did the episode on Canada as a whole, but I'm sure each region/province has its own distinct sound and history(i.e. Quebec black metal) just as each state seems to have its own distinct sound and history, save the obvious we've all heard 80 gazillion times (Bay Area thrash, Florida death, NOLA sludge, etc). Thoughts?
Zoetrope
Country of origin:
United States
Location:
Chicago, Illinois
Status:
Split-up
Formed in:
1977
Genre:
Speed/Thrash Metal
Chicago metal
In regards to the new(er) members of the Banger family, Sarah and Bradley clicked with me right away; however, I had not been that impressed with Daniel. That changed today. After the first few minutes of trying to impersonate Sam, he feel into a groove and made the show his own. Great commentary and knowledge from Martin as always. If Sam is ever out of town again, Daniel has proven to be a good guest host.
Daniel did a good job. He should be a co-host with Sam from time to time. I think it would be a good combination.
Raven- they were awesome and they were promoted as a speed metal band. Razor was good, Anvil was awesome and wow Sacrifice!! Haven't thought about them since the 80's. Boys we need Mercyful Fate on this branch.
Daniel is a really good host, knowledgeable and he looks like a nice guy. Martin is always awesome.
I can't believe no one even mentioned Holy Terror.
glad to see Daniel touring with EXCITER these days!
Helstar is a great example of a speed metal band. Speed is a major component of their musical personality. They are fast and precise and slightly more refined than thrash. Powermad has to be in there as well. Regarding Motorhead: Hell yeah! They were ON SPEED. But maybe they are "Proto-Speed".
Daniel is a great host! Dont mind him taking the rains in the future \m/
At first he was kinda shy, but Daniel did pretty well in the end, put him on any day, congratulations.
So sad I couldn't see this live, great show, one of the best "Lock Horns" about genre discussion
This episode should have gone in for another hour. You know it's good when you find it hard to believe that an hour has already gone by.
Motörhead: The Heaviness of Black Sabbath combined with the Speed of the Ramones
Speed Metal is Thrash Metal without Hardcore Punk aggression and harsh vocals infkuece. And Power Metal is Speed Metal with even faster and greater, melodic, grander, epic sound, "operatic" vocals, and even influence from Neoclassical and Symphonic music
I always thought speed metal and thrash metal were the same! At least that's what MTV said when it first came out!!
Liege lord , iron angel , agent steel , manilla road , running wild , thundersteel ( riot ), walls of jericko ( helloween ) , angel dust , blind guardian ( early )
Metal Church can also be called Speed Metal especially the first 2 records
Honestly can't believe that Germany's Warrant wasn't added. Their album "The Enforcer" came out in the mid 80's and has a pure speed metal sound. Even 2014's "Metal Bridge" is a fucking awesome album.
The fact that Griffin from Germany weren't even mentioned sort of sucks they're massively underrated, and would fit perfectly on this branch.
Priest had some real fast stuff : Painkiller Exciter Freewheel Burning Hard as Iron and Tons more 🤘
slash6662000 Freewheel burning is a great metal song..However , Defenders was a heavier handed sounding lp.
Speed metal was dead by 1984
MIDNIGHT!
This episode was really great. I saw this one from the archives as I wasn't able to watch and participate live in the comments field 🤘 But boy, you guys really made me sweat for a while there 😂 A speed metal branch without Agent Steel wouldn't have made any sense in my head, so big ups to the one bringing them out in the debate. 🤘
I still think Riot should be on here just due to the fact that they were playing speed metal in the 70s years before Exciter or Raven. Even if they went "power" metal. Didn't Helloween kinda go the same route. Early stuff is speed metal and later stuff is power metal?
Guitarbro221 agreed.
yes,they did, guitar.. the Helloween ep& walls of Jehrico were speed metal... until kai hansen couldn;t handle singing & playing guitar
*SAVAGE GRACE* - probably one of the only bands that defines "speed metal" perfectly and made some of the best speed metal songs ever. come on guys, seriously eh.
YES I THINK SPEED METAL IS 78-85 NWOBHM N THRASH COOL WITH ME MOTORHEAD BEING ONE OF THE EARLY ONES N I THINK EVEN RIOT FROM NYC WAS A VERY FAST N POWERFULL BAND !!!!!
Omg Sam I Love you but I was so fucking excited to see that the host was Daniel decay, i fuckin love the dude
where in the hell can I buy those rock band logo magnets? I soo want them. to put on my refrigerator.
You need to remember that back in the day,it was a easy way to identify what bands you were into to others without a list.
I LOVE RIOT NARITA ROAD RACING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 VERY FAST N GREAT GUITAR BAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MARK REAL !!!!!!!! FIRE DOWN UNDER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awesome! Love the debates with Martin, he seems to really know his stuff! ;)
Great episode. Honourable mention to Bezerker from Adelaide South Australia. They were awesome speed metal.
One of the reasons why people are confused about Speed Metal is because Speed Metal is nothing more than fast Heavy Metal or D-Beat, UK82 drum pattern (Motorhead, G.B.H., Sacrilege, Discharge); it's more of a style that, during the early to mid 80's, any Metal band could easily adopt. What I mean by any band adopting this style is presentable in The Speed Kills Compilation album. Whether one was playing Glam, Black, Power, etc, in the early to mid 80's, any of these sub-gneres that a band was in could incorporate the Speed Metal playing style into their music. Back in the day (80-85 and to some extent 86) Heavy Metal was a giant melting pot of ideas were nothing wasn't too specific. By the mid to late 80's, metal bands started to play more of a specific, refined, standard style with a particular sound in which one could easily identify the sub-genre of the Metal band with a little bit of ease (which is not a bad thing).
Bands like Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax, Megadeth during the early to mid 80's were not purely Thrash Metal till they adopted more of a standard and refined sound or by playing aggressive and more abrasive than their previous records, which eventually would occur by mid to late 80's. The big 4 are part of the early generation of the so called "Thrash" Metal or Speed Metal along with bands like Artillery, Exciter, Agent Steel, Anvil, Bathory Savage Grace, Exodus, Raven, Laaz Rockit, Slayer, Venom, Kat, etc, which would later influence a bunch of later generation and modern Metal bands that would play more of a standard, refined sub-genres of Metal which most us come to know as Thrash, Black, Death, Power, etc.
Although the early generation of Metal bands were the first to pioneer the ideas of these sub-genres along with the combination of N.W.O.B.H.M., UK82, Metal Punk, 80's Power Metal, 80's Black Metal, 80's Prog Metal, D-Beat, early Glam Metal, Epic Metal, etc, which would influence countless of mid to late 80's and today's modern Metal bands.
So many great bands left out like ADX (French speed metal), Holy Terror Whiplash Holy Moses and Iron Angel
Since you guys mentioned Shrapnel, maybe there's a place for a "shred" chart? A great guest for that would be Brian Sword who is also Canadian and runs a channel on youtube that interviews a TON of Shrapnel shredders (amongst other musicians) and would probably have some solid insight on the line between shred that is more rock versus the more metal shred. Or perhaps Troy Grady who is a terrific analyst of guitar technique and a tremendous player himself. Certainly an episode that could include bands like Cacophony, Racer X, Yngwie, Tony MacAlpine, Marty Friedman, Phantom Blue and others. Could get a bit dicey since so many are solo artists that focused more on solos than riffs which tends to be more rock than metal but depending on how you want to expand the theme of the show you could get some of the more shred oriented thrash bands like Toxik or even Helstar on there too. I'd say the main goal would be to avoid getting any more extreme than that though as you'd quickly end up in tech thrash and eventually tech death territory.
Monstrous discussion!
Mercyful Fate belongs on multiple charts and one of those charts is right here under the Speed Metal umbrella.
what about toxik world circus?
Never understood this term. For me it's either thrash or NWOBHM.
Riot - Thundersteel. Nuff said.
Riot is a Power metal band
So where would you put Warfare? from the UK really fast and a bit punky but it's not quite thrash and a killer band
Has anyone heard "Whipping Queen" from Exodus's Demo Era. I believe that track set's a good example on bridging the Diano era Iron Maiden influence of heavy metal/speed metal into full on thrash metal.
Speed/Power metal Metal Church
Note to Martin Popoff:
Wouldn't Metal Church be a band that is a bridge between speed & power?
..best of the modern speed metal bands=ENFORCER and WOLF!
Love you mentioned the history behind the speed metal logo!
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR! One of the bands that stayed awesome even when they changed singers.
Great guest. I'm pretty much agreeing on everything, and speed metal is not that easy to categorize. Cool!
evil invaders should be added to enforcer, skull fist and striker
ENFORCER RIPS! Great mention, Alexander!
Now, I agree with Popoff's definition of speed metal for the most part, but i highly disagree with the "thrashier then thrash" thing. Thrash is all about that "locked down" (as he puts it), palm muted riff. A tight, precise attack on your senses.
I would have suggested and pushed for Artillery
Well, some bands like Metallica already existed when Restless & Wild was released, so I'm not so sure Fast as a Shark is the proto thrash song *par excellence* as Martin said. I'm thinking more in Sabbath's Symptom of the Universe or Motörhead's Overkill.
I didn't watch the debate live, and I've just just jumped to the final section of the video. So, I apologise in case this has been already considered : Do you think that, long before the term itself was coined, maybe Deep Purple's Highway Star was the first speed metal song of all time, or at least an inspiring precursor ?
Pete Canthropus for all it's worth, I think yes Highway Star is a precursor it showed that metal could be heavy, fast and melodic at the same time and it sounded damn good. Queen - Stone Cold Crazy is another early influence to Speed and Thrash.
on that same topic, not influencial at all but obscure Belgian band Blast released a song called Damned Flame in like 74 (recorded in 72 or 73 from what I understand) that's really impressive ahead of it's time speed. Listen to that song and tell yourself that was recorded in 72. That's crazy.
always thought Speed Metal was jus Heavy Metal sped up for example where Priest went on Ram in down an Painkiller. didn't know it was a point in time like NWOBHM
Its honestly a confusing broad blanket term, bands who play fast metal are under the speed metal moniker but not necessarily speed metal bands, the bands that were around the NWOBHM timeline between 1981-1983 as well as in other countries and before or around Thrash metal emerging scenery that played fast heavy metal or Punk influnced metal at a fast tempo but weren't Thrashy enough, like Accept, Venom(I would them Thrash though), Raven, Jaguar, Anvil, Exciter, Halloween, Agent Steel and Metal Church fit under speed metal
Razor,holy terror,sdi,exiciter,angel dust,iron angel,anvil...are legends of speed metal...
I may get some flack for this but speed metal is not a genre to me.When I hear the word "speed metal" I see it as a style used upon thrash and death and mostly Black metal.Metallica is not a speed metal sound but Fight fire with fir,Trapped under ice and thee one song that describes it the most is Whiplash.Exodus has a plethora of speed ot fast paced tremolo picking without tempo change and Slayer as well.How do you feel about my thoughts on this non genre of speed metal.
No dude you are right. It is nothing more than a playing style. Speed Metal is just fast Heavy Metal but the confusion from people is that they treat Speed Metal like it was a genre which it's not. That's why bands like Slayer, Metallica, Raven, Exciter, etc, appear on Compilations like Speed Kills is because all these bands play fast Heavy Metal, and it was a good marketing ad, and has nothing to do whether these bands were/are Black, Thrash, Power, etc. Overall, in the early to mid 80's it was a melting pot of all these sub-genres and nobody made a huge fuss about them but by today's standard everything has to have a hyper classification and when it comes to analyzing early 80's Metal it just makes things even worse and confusing.
@@felipe126929666 Best comment in here. You're absolutely right and you explain very well why speed metal has become such and obsolete term.
Daniel and martin were awesome. Need to mention the following. Iron angel laaz rockit vulture alagash demona mystik (early) warlock mystik. Sarah has a great article out in the interwebs regarding speed metal.
If Canada has great metal bands by all means give them credit it doesn't matter if the show is from Canada thanks to whatever whoever wherever puts out metal bands! Oh I remember back in 85' the first Megadeth shirt I had was from killings my business and business is good album...it had a Vic rattlehead skull on the backside and underneath it stated "The worlds state of the art speed metal band" but idk I thought of them as more thrash at that time.
Raven
Exciter
Anvil
Accept
Metal Church
Riot
Attacker
Running Wild
Savatage
Grave Digger
X-Japan
Grave Digger started as a speed metal band with their albums such as "Heavy Metal Breakdown " " Witch Hunter" and "War Games" but after the "Symphony Of Death" EP , they get into power metal with their classic album Heart Of Darkness and then Tunes Of War.
Growing up in that time (and having a vinyl copy of 'Speed Kills') speed metal to me was an early definition of thrash metal before the thrash style was fully formed, established and 'categorised.'
Speed metal debate Ep 2 must need
So, if Exciter is speed metal in part due to their higher vocals, wouldn’t anthrax also be? I think Anthrax is closer to exciter than the Bay Area Big4 guys.
Motörhead flirted with sooooo many styles, but most of those styles are in fact, fast paced. They don’t specifically fit in any category, Speed kinda works for me.
Priest NOT. Because they were one of the first bands to make faster tunes, but that was one or two per record. That’s not enough to define their style.
Damn I missed it. Glad this has been done.
Cranium is a Swedish Speed Metal band and a true Speed Metal band at that because most if not all the bands listed had other influences in their music
Here's what the interwebs say are Speed Metal bands: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_speed_metal_bands
wtf no helstar, nasty savage, hallows eve, liege lord ,living death, savatage tons of banzai metal blade bands
Savatage is a metal/ power& progressive power metal band from Tarpon Springs , Florida
Awsome episode 👍