You mean, your issue is people with different views… discussing their views? Or do you mean that you think people get too аggrеssive and аrgumentative, and that they should discuss them more “civilly”?
@@1NameGoesHere so it’s too much of people just regurgitating their own talking points without actually listening to the other side’s positions? So in that case the issue is not with the goal of the series itself - it’s actually that it fails to achieve its own goal of reaching a “middle ground”?
@@alexbennet4195 I don't believe that finding the middle ground is actually Jubilee's goal. that may be what they tell you, but that's not why the producers put the show together. they knew people like conflict, and that if they put up videos of people arguing, they could sell that premise to advertisers.
As well as their clear preference for platforming and amplifying the voices of corporate astroturfed professional reactionaries usually against significantly smaller normie libs and leftist content creators.
It has indeed changed but we need to understand and remember we're surrounded by the bad actors, bad faith people this video mentions. Showing them reminds us we need to be prepared to deal with people like them, they're real, some of them are stupid and brutally uneducated, but they exist.
@@MrSomnixwhich video was this? (Genuinely asking. I don’t watch every video from this channel, and I’d like to judge for myself whether or not that’s true.)
@MiraBoo this video around the 10:50 mark. Pete is a shining star amongst the democratic party at the moment and showing conservatives I know his speeches about things like abortion has caused a lot of people to understand left-leaning points, even those engrained in the religious right. Theres plenty to hate the Democrats for, Pete is not one of them and the only reason I could think that a left-leaning commentator would have such vitriol for them would be that he's not commie enough.
@@MrSomnix Oh, that part was so brief that I paid no mind to it. I figured (based on what he said) that his issue had more to do with how Pete got his position. In my anecdotal experience, most people (Dems, Republicans, and others) usually view Pete quite favorably.
I felt so bad for him he looked like he was genuinely advocating and trying to have a tough conversation. It’s such a slap in the face to have to deal with radical centrists and argue with the far right
@@LocoGeorge123 human rights for convicts is such a important topic that nobody wants to talk about, majority of people still think convict does not deserve any right. they give him hope just for him to realize it's all a joke
It's gross, they gave life to all the hate in a youtube comment section. They purposely skew the overton window for clicks. They are garbage. Their mission statement is a bold faced lie.
I don't think it's really "skewing" the overton window. The overton window is shifting to the right. The narrative is dominated by right wing rhetoric. Democrats see it, that's why they are adopting right wing policies like securing the border, increasing police budgets, supporting drilling and fracking, removing social safety nets, lowering taxes on the wealthy, etc. Universal healthcare was a major point of debate before 2016 and was haralded by many democrats, now people get laughed out of the room when they bring it up. The liberal progressivism of the obama era is dying, people aren't showing up and voting for it. Our federal government is now dominated by what was seen as the extreme far right before 2016, and they are implementing plans that will have consequences to be felt for generations. In all likelihood even if the democrats take back the white house and congress in 2028, they will look a lot more like the Bushes and Reagan and less like Bernie Sanders or AOC.
I'm so glad you made this video. Why was she such a popular X-Men character? Because she dressed cool? Making fireworks with your hands is like, barely even a superpower
They did Jubilee dirty sometimes. Someone who creates high energy blasts from her hands without the use of metal or electricity? Sounds like the perfect person to fight Magneto. But that's beside the point, which is: a Jubilee was a huge party, hundreds of years ago during fuedal times, where the landlords would forgive everyone's debts. This show is an even bigger disgrace to that idea
I recognize my comment might seem ambiguous given my username; I am unambiguously on the side of the people who were kidnapped and made to perform forced labor.
Speaking from 30 years of fat shaming, it's just bullying it doesn't make people lose weight, kicking us in the butt doesn't kickstart our metabolism it's just bullies being mean for the sake of sadism getting off on our pain
So don´t show them your pain. Just say you pity them. Remind them your life is happy and you are loved, and their lives are full of hate and ugliness that dwells inside them. Say the world is beautiful and glorious and it is a shame they will never see it because they only have eyes for ugliness and hate. They wish to use you so they can feel big, shrink them and remind them their true place, in the trash.
@@MJCKCA I think it's not quite as simple, as normalizing some things removes barriers, but doesn't affect anyone's current state anymore. So while a general sense of being obese and likely unhealthy can have a preventative effect because the feeling of shame serves as a signal that you're doing something of social consequence and might want to think on it, simply bullying people into becoming thin just isn't a thing. It's a typical "works for me" argument and if those guys in that crowd were in the same situation, same disposition, they'd at best be skinny fat and busy deluding themselves. Fundamental attribution error at work.
@@Hosenanzugtasche the fundamental problem with the stance of "normalizing removes barriers" is that being fat is not "normalized", it's just not ridiculed as much as it was in the 90's. It's not like people feel their weight is "the norm" when the clothes they like don't fit, or the health consultants won't stop recommending you to "lose weight" to any symptom you have, among multiple other things. Saying it's been normalized just because fit people don't perceive the small things doesn't mean there are no barriers
the fact that they had the audacity to have a disclaimer in one of their more recent videos about hate comments, "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all." Are they insane? Do they not see the content they're pushing out? How could you possibly expect a topic as controversial as Palestine v Israel or literally anything involving Kirk and Shapiro to not stir up the normal general public?
"if you don't like what you see don't bother commenting, just go watch something else. We don't need your criticism here, we are trying to find the middle ground" - a Jubilee producer, probably.
That moment with the former convict leaving the show was honestly heartbreaking. This video did a great job explaining the problem with Jubilee's format but that man understood it instantly better than anyone else.
@@swartley In regards to the guy walking off the set, the question of 'Do certain people deserve legal rights?' supposes that it's something worth debating and the format of Jubilee gives equal weight to both sides. Plus, it's kinda wack having to argue for why you deserve rights with someone who believes that you don't. That's my take on it.
This is why it is important to value evidence also. If you have a position that lacks evidence (conversion therapy and flat earth) they are by definition not valid positions therefore you cant say there are two sides to an issue
I agree with you, though there are many out there who believe the facts are just made up to support their oppositions position for any set of beliefs. It's a delusional world view for those that accept the facts and entirely rational for those that reject them.
@@jonmartinson6830 That's not a compelling argument to convince someone to abandon a core feature of their identity. Religion is real, there is evidence of its existence even if there is no evidence for their specific beliefs.
I stopped watching Jubilee a while ago for this exact reason. The only Jubilee video I recently watched was the one with Pete Buttigieg which, admittedly, I did find interesting but that’s more due to how Pete conducts himself as a public servant and leader
Wisecrack? More like Wokecrack, with host Wokle Burns. Maybe stop drinking so much Yes please coffee and you wouldn't be so awake. (I actually love the channel if it isn't clear)
I love the first part of this comment and hate that we're in a world right now where the last part needs to be included because weirdos like this actually exist
I will give one devil’s advocate. I was a young earth creationist until I saw the Ken Ham v Bill Nye debate, so while one could argue it gave Ham a platform it also gave Nye a platform. Again I agree with Burns’ overall argument but there might be a silver lining
I think the important difference between that debate and Jubilee debates is the curation, like Ham and Nye are both pretty well educated in their chosen fields and are equally skilled in communicating to an audience. Plus, I think debates are a tool, so maybe the Ham v Nye debate was just a good use of the tool and Jubilee is going for a world record of ways to use a single tool.
@@Nerdish-o6o Curation seems key in a lot of ways. The right pattern of speech can make someone seem like they won even if they said nothing so properly mediated conversation topics and flow can be key for accurate reactions from people on the topic of debate
Jubilee in my mind is trashy day time TV. The people who make it though seem to think they are making groundbreaking art. And are incapable of taking criticism, so it's kinda a waste of time making constructive criticism to them.
Good. Preferbaly no one should have to watch that garbage, I hadn't heard it till that conservative talkperson was against 25 "woke" students, after watching some of it, it was incredibly disappointing, it wasn't a debate, it was an argument without much ground rules, apart from the ones that only apply to the liberal or leftist folks in there.
as soon as they brought on myron and allowed him to basically tell people to their face "you are worthless and should die", i knew that it was never about finding middle ground for jubilee. the contestants that dealt with him are SO patient, and i hope they're okay mentally after dealing with his bigotry.
So happy your this video was made, we need more people roasting jubilee. Enough is enough, eventually they will have a video that says, "Middle Ground: Slavers or Slave advocates vs Human rights."
Not all opinions are valid or deserve air time. I hate that people think being "unbiased" is giving all views a voice. The Earth is not flat. No debate needed. Slavery is wrong, no debate needed. Children shouldn't go hungry, no debate needed. Anything opposed to these ideas (and some others) does not need to be heard or given time to spread.
As someone who used to be a fan of Jubilee, they USED to make wholesome, Asian related skits like WongFu Productions. They weren't as good as WongFu but they had some relatable stuff. Then they got their first viral video and they've just been doing nothing but clickbait outrage videos. I stopped watching their garbage years ago.
Ironically, the greatest thing that could happen for the majority of the world would be a jubilee, but I mean the original jubilee, the forgiveness of all debts.
I was in high school when Trump won in 2016 and one of my teachers said something that still rings true, he said that we now live in a post-truth world. Nobody is interested in critically analyzing the facts and evidence. Everyone thinks that any facts or evidence that contradicts any aspect of their belief system must be an attempt to decieve them, and so our society is being modelled after the biases, prejudices and gut feelings of a smaller and smaller minority of people with the most exteme beliefs. Whoever can say the most contentious rhetoric, the stuff that gets the most attention from both supporters and detractors, ends up controlling the narrative and the overton window shifts along with them. This is why the republican party has become the party of what was only a couple years ago considered the "alt right", and liberal progressivism that was considered the dominant position in the Obama era is now being considered extremist and the democrats are moving further and further right.
The difficulty in having an honest debate among the parties is that they are not aligned on their basic premises and therefore will argue past each other. It's like having a boxing match where the participants enter separate, but adjacent rings. They can see their opponent and the strikes, but never feel them. Premise alignment needs to happen first, but that's often so basic and technical that it doesn't make good television. For example defining what rights are, what are the criteria for those rights, analyzing a specific group and determining if they meet those criteria, teasing out any exceptions, the philosophy of those exceptions, and if there are contradictions in application. It's long and is boring and won't get clicks.
There is no "middle ground" when talking about human rights. You are either for people having rights or against it, and if you are against it you yourself do not deserve any rights. The people against human beings being human beings have never in their life had to fight for rights of their own.
I'm confused by the complaint over Pete Buttigiege's rise. Michael seemed to be saying that previous elections should be what leads someone to be viable for future leadership roles and that Pete hadn't achieved this due to his being appointed secretary of transportation, but in making his point, Michael laid out three steps in Pete's rise, only one of which was through appointment, the other two being because "people voted for [him] and liked [him]." Sure his rise was quicker than most, but the only reason he got "anointed" by "the democratic establishment" is because they saw a rising star in the democratic party based on him "somehow having done pretty well" in the 2020 primary. And if he were to become a presidential nominee in the future he'd almost certainly have to primary again, which means he'll need to be liked and voted for. I'm left wondering if Michael thinks politicians, or presidential hopefuls, should never be offered or accept political appointments, and their achievements should be electoral 100% of the time, which if so.... is kind of weird. ngl.
I think the argument being made has to do with qualification and credentials. Being a mayor doesn't guarantee having the skill in either category to oversee the Department of Transportation.
@@Hawkenwhacker I hear you but if that was his point he made it in a pretty convoluted way. It sounded to me like he was more upset about Pete being tee'd up for a future presidential administration than him lacking expertise in transportation. My own guess at what led Michael to disparage Buttigiege's rise is that in 2020, after Joe Biden, Pete Buttigiege was the front-runner in terms of "establishment" Democratic contenders, having won Iowa. Despite this, after the South Carolina primary went to Biden, he was the first of the non-progressive hopefuls to drop out and endorse Biden, with the rest of contenders quickly following suit. This shored up Biden's support, and essentially turned the rest of the campaign into a two man race between him and Bernie Sanders (with the possible exception for Elizabeth Warren who wouldn't drop out till much later and if anything drew away support from Bernie). So I think for many people, Biden's later appointment of Buttigiege had the appearance of a corrupt "quid pro quo" to make Bernie lose and have the race go to Biden. 2 things though; 1. if this was Michael's point he still didn't do a good job of making it. And 2. making deals and bargains is fundamental to politics, so thinking it's corrupt to exchange one political loss for the potential of a future political gain seems, at least to me, misguided at best. Bernie got outplayed, but he also knew the game he was playing. It was on him to win the majority of votes whether he was facing one establishment candidate or a dozen.
Many people that influence the public discourse do not operate in good faith to seek the best solution but instead simply want their side to win at all costs, intellectual integrity be damned.
The way I see it, finding the middle ground is not so much about validating a ridiculous or immoral pov, but rather it's about validating whatever life experiences the other person has had that got them to this point, and in so doing then maybe you get them to extend the same courtesy to you and hopefully see you as a human who is just humaning and not trying to get the country to implode on itself. To me it beats the alternative, which is dismissing the other side as dumb or evil, thus alienating them and making sure your "irreconcilable differences" stay actually irreconcilable. To be clear this doesn't mean validating (for example) homophobia, but acknowledging that someone's upbringing may have encouraged that stance... But they are still human and still learning, all of us are. That said, the dude that said that "fat people deserve to be laughed at" has some nerve shaming anyone for their appearance when he himself looks like he escaped a videogame from the late '90s.
Jubilee treats it as if both sides has merits. A bigoted/unscientific side shouldn't platformed. There's no middle ground between reason and lack off. A debate is between both sides that not only have merit and study, but also when both sides are interested in edification. Jubilee is only interested in views, their livelihood is based on the algorithm of engagement and not actual validity of ideas. You can see this example most sharply when Ben Shapiro was smiling through out his episode. He knows he doesn't have to be correct, his interest is in getting paid and expanding his reputation. He doesn't lose anything from "losing the debate", he still gets paid.
I liked jubilee when it first started and made actually good debates with genuine conversations but then it just went off the rails and into the toilet
День тому+2
For a moment, I thought this was about the virtuous practice of Jubilee. Instead, I discovered this was really about the spiritual successor to the Jerry Springer Show.
Important video, glad you are not afraid to discuss the legitimacy of other channels, I do think there is a logical problem with your argument, since you explain a lot of problems related to philosophy with the help of the channel's scientific content and a lot of scientific problems with the help of philosophers' content, there is a significant difference between a discussion of Republicans and Democrats who live in the same country, and scientists and those who do not believe in vaccines. The second debate is at best unnecessary and at worst causes the spread of misinformation, but in my opinion the first debate is important, democracy is based on social polarization and hard concessions if you don't hear the other side at all, then there will be no democracy. There are important arguments for both the pro-guns and the opponents, there are good arguments for both the Israeli and Palestinian sides, it is important to discuss what fat shaming does to a person mentally, but also to give space to say that the idealization of obesity is a negative thing, there is no doubt that people like the idiot who laughs at fat people, or people Those shouting from the river to the sea should not reach a place where they can be heard, but the discussion between different philosophical parties is important. Another comment said it well, the problem is not finding the middle ground but the argument in the videos
Aw dang, I have disagreements with Alain Badiou's materialist epistemology, I sure hope Jubilee sets up a video where we can debate while playing musical-chairs or something.
Jubilee could've been something potentially really interesting, instead it's worse than trash, it's actively spreading and giving legitimacy to harmful ideas and opinions to a wider audience.
Brilliant. Thanks for the enlightenment on something I've felt for a long time but could grasp my comprehension on. I can't believe I hadn't subscribed to you yet.
I realized this effect just after Roe was overturned. The conservative framing of the spectrum of abortion accessibility as "no abortion" to "choice of abortion until viability and/or medically necessary" makes it so easy to label the already centrist position of "choice" as extremist and thereby demand a "compromise" which can only restrict access. The Platonic ideal of this debate would have the spectrum be "no abortions" to "all abortions" at which point a utopian constituency could have a debate and let the chips fall where they may.
Fiiiiinally! Thank you! Thank you for someone finally acknowledging and calling out Jubilee's heel turn. I've felt it was coming for quite a while before it finally happened but the vibes where there years before. There were a few months befoee it actually happened when it was obvious from their content that there were discussions being had behind the scenes about which way to go. If you are reading this, no it wasn't all in your head there for a while. Yes, Jubilee did change. You weren't going crazy. You have been gaslit. Thank you!
Most of the time they present it as left vs right, when in reality it’s just liberal (which is moderately right wing) vs conservatives which is far right. They almost never have any communist or socialist on. They’re trying to find a middle ground that is going right wing.
So, I once signed up to be in a Jubilee video. It was a middle ground about being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints versus ex members. I was so excited when I actually got a response back and was asked to come be a part of it! However, a major family thing happened, and I was no longer able to come. That was all the way back in 2020. They never made the video, and I now when I look , realize it might've actually been a very difficult situation, and I'm grateful now I never went. I was excited because I wanted to share my beliefs in a safe place, but now I realize I might've just been attacked.
drama baiting clicks has def helped lead to the devolution of political discourse. You are never allowed to have nuanced takes online, cause thats not easily captured in a short clip or tik tok. All recent attempts at debate and discourse is just yelling talking points at each other instead of trying to find new understanding. IDK how you ever fix that. Its almost like the medium prevents it. I also blame dems for not counter messaging enough tho and capitulating to right wing framing on almost every issue.
The really scary part of accepting that truth exists and discourse is not just about averaging extreme viewpoints, is that perhaps we are objectively wrong about something. Yes, of course, the world is round, slavery is wrong, and trans people deserve rights. But what are the positions we hold that can be legitimately challenged? Why do we suppose we are always on the right side?
Gong show entertainment. This used to be called “balanced journalism” and it’s what led people to believe that global climate change was undecided science.
I’m a big fan of the Wisecrack content, but English isn’t my first language, and it’s tough to focus on the subject with the background music playing a bit too loud. Is there a way on UA-cam to lower the volume or turn it off altogether?
The shock factor gets views! But so does honest, genuine content like yours. If your goal is to just get views, what they're doing works... but can't be sustained.
"If someone says it's raining and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out of the fucking window and find out which is true."
Crazy how out of the huge variety of videos i have seen, the one group/podcast that keeps getting dissed by everyone is Fresh n Fit 😂😂😂 The old saying: everything in moderation, including moderation. Solid vid as always
It’s crazy how ideological WISECRACK has become. I’m not part of either extreme, but I used to be a fan of this group when they spoke more about film and their philosophical implications. But the opinions of these creators are clearly damning of a certain. Not nearly as explorative as they used to be. Every time I see a new video, i honestly feel more annoyed than more videos from jubilees. I think this is a dishonest representation of those videos. They’re not perfect, but I do feel they “attempt” to be fair. This channel is clearly meant to discredit the free speech they find “objectively wrong”. Ideologically driven. Fuck all that
I saw the title and thought what could be wrong with debt forgiveness and a fresh start for everybody every 5 or 10 years . Then i saw it was that tv show and i dont think we have time for everything that is wrong with it
10/10 Video using hip-hops introduction to the music scene to explain material dialectics... *chefs kiss* I'm loving the direct Wisecrack is going into.
14:32 lol yep, that Logan Roy "you are not serious people" quote has definitely been popping in my head lately. I'm all for this video. The election really has me contemplating how helpful a lot of this political content and online discourse actually is
I always bring up the same comic as an example of why the center is not always the moral position. I do not know the original artist but it is a street with Civil Rights leaders on one side and a KKK rally on the other. In the middle of the street a lone man holds up a sign that says 'compromise'. That really boils down the point as directly as it can be.
I'm glad more people are calling this awful channel out. I watched a couple of random videos of theirs and I liked them even though parts of it made me a little mad. And then i realised that's what they want. They want people on both sides seething after hearing people on the other side saying things they find outrageous. And like you said, it's not like they're getting two different groups to debate something like abortion in a respectful decent way. They're getting 2 different groups to debate stuff in a way that they'll never come to an agreement. Plus the sides are often "I'm x person" vs "x people should die"
The Overton Window in America is so far right! The whole thing here seems pretty performative though. Like people just spitting hot takes to gain exposure, or something. (I don't know, I'm too old for this sh1t!)
Jubilee presents the veneer of an intellectual debate, while platforming prominent people with extremist positions on the "topic" (e.g. Myron) and usually doesnt do the same for the common sense side. This doesnt even get into the idea of a debate in this day and age, where its more about spectacle and talking points, sending your message to the broader audience, instead of trying to reason with your opponent to have them understand your position and change their mind.
Also, Jubilee presenting loaded questions that have implications that are sometimes as bad as dehumanization, e.g. the criminals don't deserve certain legal rights.
I think Matt Bernstein, Saji Sharma, and a few others have made similar videos critical of Jubilee highlighting their major issues, with Matt speaking on how their original videos changed to today's kind of videos as they got more attention and more money
What is your dream Jubilee debate?
Marvel vs DC
10 concentration camp apologists vs 1 Simon Wiesenthal
Marvel Vs Capcom @@sb76117
Bodybuilders vs bolemics
the 'my pillow guy' debates college students and tries to guess which one is an undercover politics twitch streamer
For me, this problem with Jubilee is that finding the middle ground isn’t the point.
The arguing is.
yes.
You mean, your issue is people with different views… discussing their views? Or do you mean that you think people get too аggrеssive and аrgumentative, and that they should discuss them more “civilly”?
@@alexbennet4195 I think they mean the sport of arguing rather than understanding each other.
@@1NameGoesHere so it’s too much of people just regurgitating their own talking points without actually listening to the other side’s positions? So in that case the issue is not with the goal of the series itself - it’s actually that it fails to achieve its own goal of reaching a “middle ground”?
@@alexbennet4195 I don't believe that finding the middle ground is actually Jubilee's goal. that may be what they tell you, but that's not why the producers put the show together. they knew people like conflict, and that if they put up videos of people arguing, they could sell that premise to advertisers.
Props to Wisecrack for calling out Jubilee for not being about discussion but clickbait outrage.
As well as their clear preference for platforming and amplifying the voices of corporate astroturfed professional reactionaries usually against significantly smaller normie libs and leftist content creators.
So they basically profit off people's misery,don't they?Jubilee really is shameless.
Doesn't everyone say that?
I mean...they're right, but giving them props for this is like giving them props for calling out Tump.
Not exactly a unique viewpoint.
I feel that now they have been Ragebait which made me sad cuz in the beginning, they used to have substance
1 Philosophy youtuber vs. 25 Jubilee producers when?
ANY PLACE ANY TIME
No way he would do it
HOLY SHIT I'M NOT CRAZY. Jubilee has gotten so WEIRD.
YOU ARE NOT CRAZY.
It has indeed changed but we need to understand and remember we're surrounded by the bad actors, bad faith people this video mentions. Showing them reminds us we need to be prepared to deal with people like them, they're real, some of them are stupid and brutally uneducated, but they exist.
Same. I used to be a fan but now I have a hard time finishing an upload.
Astronaut pointing a gun at another astronaut: always has been
Jubilee has always been this way. They never correct lies or conspiracy theories. I realized this when I started watching them in 2020
Jubilee has the aesthetics of an empathetic centrist platform but the praxis of a nihilistic capitalist machine.
well put.
@@WisecrackEDUthis comment applies to your shit too after that tankie ass Pete ramble
@@MrSomnixwhich video was this? (Genuinely asking. I don’t watch every video from this channel, and I’d like to judge for myself whether or not that’s true.)
@MiraBoo this video around the 10:50 mark. Pete is a shining star amongst the democratic party at the moment and showing conservatives I know his speeches about things like abortion has caused a lot of people to understand left-leaning points, even those engrained in the religious right.
Theres plenty to hate the Democrats for, Pete is not one of them and the only reason I could think that a left-leaning commentator would have such vitriol for them would be that he's not commie enough.
@@MrSomnix Oh, that part was so brief that I paid no mind to it. I figured (based on what he said) that his issue had more to do with how Pete got his position. In my anecdotal experience, most people (Dems, Republicans, and others) usually view Pete quite favorably.
I think the smartest person on Jubilee is that guy that walked off.
indeed.
I felt so bad for him he looked like he was genuinely advocating and trying to have a tough conversation. It’s such a slap in the face to have to deal with radical centrists and argue with the far right
“It just don’t make sense”
Yes sir you are exactly right, it doesn’t.
What episode is that?
@@LocoGeorge123 human rights for convicts is such a important topic that nobody wants to talk about, majority of people still think convict does not deserve any right. they give him hope just for him to realize it's all a joke
Rap name: Lil' Accountability
Accountahillability
That's the real name
Lil’ Shit
That's a fire name XD 😂
Winner 🥇 right here
It's gross, they gave life to all the hate in a youtube comment section. They purposely skew the overton window for clicks. They are garbage. Their mission statement is a bold faced lie.
Because… they had a couple of people on who were аssholes to fаt people? That’s not actually the “ехtreme rіght”
Preach.
I prefer windows that are under a ton
I don't think it's really "skewing" the overton window. The overton window is shifting to the right. The narrative is dominated by right wing rhetoric. Democrats see it, that's why they are adopting right wing policies like securing the border, increasing police budgets, supporting drilling and fracking, removing social safety nets, lowering taxes on the wealthy, etc. Universal healthcare was a major point of debate before 2016 and was haralded by many democrats, now people get laughed out of the room when they bring it up. The liberal progressivism of the obama era is dying, people aren't showing up and voting for it. Our federal government is now dominated by what was seen as the extreme far right before 2016, and they are implementing plans that will have consequences to be felt for generations. In all likelihood even if the democrats take back the white house and congress in 2028, they will look a lot more like the Bushes and Reagan and less like Bernie Sanders or AOC.
damn, never saw that clip of a guy walking off before, thank you for adding that. THAT DUDE WAS BASED AF
yeah that dude rips.
What episode is that? Thanks
Looks like the cops vs ex convicts @@pattheticc
Why did he walk away for exactly?
@@justnickplease5756he realized he didn’t have a seat at the table but was actually on the menu instead.
I'm so glad you made this video. Why was she such a popular X-Men character? Because she dressed cool? Making fireworks with your hands is like, barely even a superpower
Lowkey unironically me watching xmen 97
They did Jubilee dirty sometimes. Someone who creates high energy blasts from her hands without the use of metal or electricity? Sounds like the perfect person to fight Magneto. But that's beside the point, which is: a Jubilee was a huge party, hundreds of years ago during fuedal times, where the landlords would forgive everyone's debts. This show is an even bigger disgrace to that idea
Middle ground in 1700s :Slavers vs slaves
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
I recognize my comment might seem ambiguous given my username; I am unambiguously on the side of the people who were kidnapped and made to perform forced labor.
"There are good people on both sides"
" well I'd argue that they were happy working under constant threat of violence for free"
"the wealth class deserves charitye"
That guy at the end who ripped his mic off is the real king
100% Good for him
What exactly happened there? I'm so curious!
the correct answer is to not play the game
Speaking from 30 years of fat shaming, it's just bullying it doesn't make people lose weight, kicking us in the butt doesn't kickstart our metabolism it's just bullies being mean for the sake of sadism getting off on our pain
good thing im a fat masochist
The argument in favor of fat shaming doesn't even make sense. "Oh thanks, I didn't notice I was fat, nobody has ever told me that, thank you".
So don´t show them your pain.
Just say you pity them. Remind them your life is happy and you are loved, and their lives are full of hate and ugliness that dwells inside them. Say the world is beautiful and glorious and it is a shame they will never see it because they only have eyes for ugliness and hate.
They wish to use you so they can feel big, shrink them and remind them their true place, in the trash.
@@MJCKCA I think it's not quite as simple, as normalizing some things removes barriers, but doesn't affect anyone's current state anymore. So while a general sense of being obese and likely unhealthy can have a preventative effect because the feeling of shame serves as a signal that you're doing something of social consequence and might want to think on it, simply bullying people into becoming thin just isn't a thing. It's a typical "works for me" argument and if those guys in that crowd were in the same situation, same disposition, they'd at best be skinny fat and busy deluding themselves. Fundamental attribution error at work.
@@Hosenanzugtasche the fundamental problem with the stance of "normalizing removes barriers" is that being fat is not "normalized", it's just not ridiculed as much as it was in the 90's.
It's not like people feel their weight is "the norm" when the clothes they like don't fit, or the health consultants won't stop recommending you to "lose weight" to any symptom you have, among multiple other things. Saying it's been normalized just because fit people don't perceive the small things doesn't mean there are no barriers
the fact that they had the audacity to have a disclaimer in one of their more recent videos about hate comments, "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all." Are they insane? Do they not see the content they're pushing out? How could you possibly expect a topic as controversial as Palestine v Israel or literally anything involving Kirk and Shapiro to not stir up the normal general public?
"if you don't like what you see don't bother commenting, just go watch something else. We don't need your criticism here, we are trying to find the middle ground" - a Jubilee producer, probably.
That moment with the former convict leaving the show was honestly heartbreaking. This video did a great job explaining the problem with Jubilee's format but that man understood it instantly better than anyone else.
Can you please explain this to me? I am genuinely not understanding. Thank you.
@@swartley In regards to the guy walking off the set, the question of 'Do certain people deserve legal rights?' supposes that it's something worth debating and the format of Jubilee gives equal weight to both sides. Plus, it's kinda wack having to argue for why you deserve rights with someone who believes that you don't.
That's my take on it.
jubilee bringing myron is actually unforgivable
yeah - that's the point at which it seemed clear that they truly do not care about anything other than stirring up conflict for clicks.
yeah, the last people who need to be platformed to a wider audience.
@@WisecrackEDU yup
@@deadhead4077 yea pretty much
free speech? i guess?
This is why it is important to value evidence also. If you have a position that lacks evidence (conversion therapy and flat earth) they are by definition not valid positions therefore you cant say there are two sides to an issue
I agree with you, though there are many out there who believe the facts are just made up to support their oppositions position for any set of beliefs. It's a delusional world view for those that accept the facts and entirely rational for those that reject them.
Some positions are not testable. You're not going to convince people that religion isn't valid just because there's no direct evidence of God.
Hitchens razor: That which is presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
@@jonmartinson6830 That's not a compelling argument to convince someone to abandon a core feature of their identity. Religion is real, there is evidence of its existence even if there is no evidence for their specific beliefs.
That would mean no progress, as a hypothesis can't have evidence without it being tested, but the lack of evidence can have it dismissed.
I stopped watching Jubilee a while ago for this exact reason. The only Jubilee video I recently watched was the one with Pete Buttigieg which, admittedly, I did find interesting but that’s more due to how Pete conducts himself as a public servant and leader
That's rich for a man to say that women wanting an abortion is just them trying to get out of taking responsibility for their actions.
I don't think he knows where babies come from.
Next on my feed will be
The problem with Wisecrack 🗿
made by Wisecrack.
20 Wisecrack haters against Michael Burns
But Michael burns is on the hater side, and Michael Burns is represented by Lux
The Wisecrack Situation is Crazy
@@Andres-3000 but surprise it's Jared and he tells them how weird they all are for still commenting wisecrack used to be better
Wisecrack? More like Wokecrack, with host Wokle Burns. Maybe stop drinking so much Yes please coffee and you wouldn't be so awake. (I actually love the channel if it isn't clear)
this comment rules and I want you to know I love and appreciate you.
Yes I woke up and I will be woke.
I love the first part of this comment and hate that we're in a world right now where the last part needs to be included because weirdos like this actually exist
I'm more woke than most. I take lots of naps and I manage to wake up every single time.
I will give one devil’s advocate. I was a young earth creationist until I saw the Ken Ham v Bill Nye debate, so while one could argue it gave Ham a platform it also gave Nye a platform. Again I agree with Burns’ overall argument but there might be a silver lining
fair point!
I think the important difference between that debate and Jubilee debates is the curation, like Ham and Nye are both pretty well educated in their chosen fields and are equally skilled in communicating to an audience. Plus, I think debates are a tool, so maybe the Ham v Nye debate was just a good use of the tool and Jubilee is going for a world record of ways to use a single tool.
@@Nerdish-o6o Curation seems key in a lot of ways. The right pattern of speech can make someone seem like they won even if they said nothing so properly mediated conversation topics and flow can be key for accurate reactions from people on the topic of debate
Rap name: Lil Man Complex.
You win. This is now that guy's rap name forever. I don't even remember his government name. He is now only Lil Man Complex.
@ 😂🤣😂 He is!
Jubilee in my mind is trashy day time TV. The people who make it though seem to think they are making groundbreaking art. And are incapable of taking criticism, so it's kinda a waste of time making constructive criticism to them.
My offering to the Algod, may this content be elevated.
your sacrifice will not be in vain
Amen. 🙏
As someone who’s never heard of Jubilee this was quite a trip
Good. Preferbaly no one should have to watch that garbage, I hadn't heard it till that conservative talkperson was against 25 "woke" students, after watching some of it, it was incredibly disappointing, it wasn't a debate, it was an argument without much ground rules, apart from the ones that only apply to the liberal or leftist folks in there.
as soon as they brought on myron and allowed him to basically tell people to their face "you are worthless and should die", i knew that it was never about finding middle ground for jubilee. the contestants that dealt with him are SO patient, and i hope they're okay mentally after dealing with his bigotry.
It's wierd how X-men's Jubilee creates sparkes of light yet Jubilee on UA-cam creates sparkes of plight.
I guarantee that dude who wrote “why women deserve less” wrote the entire thing in his notes app on his phone
So happy your this video was made, we need more people roasting jubilee. Enough is enough, eventually they will have a video that says, "Middle Ground: Slavers or Slave advocates vs Human rights."
Not all opinions are valid or deserve air time. I hate that people think being "unbiased" is giving all views a voice. The Earth is not flat. No debate needed. Slavery is wrong, no debate needed. Children shouldn't go hungry, no debate needed. Anything opposed to these ideas (and some others) does not need to be heard or given time to spread.
Banning abortion causes more death than saves lives.
the asymmetry of bullshit
As someone who used to be a fan of Jubilee, they USED to make wholesome, Asian related skits like WongFu Productions. They weren't as good as WongFu but they had some relatable stuff. Then they got their first viral video and they've just been doing nothing but clickbait outrage videos. I stopped watching their garbage years ago.
The irony of the Fresh & Fit guy saying we've gotten away from our ability to shame others is the very reason he has a voice and a podcast.
Ironically, the greatest thing that could happen for the majority of the world would be a jubilee, but I mean the original jubilee, the forgiveness of all debts.
Rap name: MackelLess
nice
I was in high school when Trump won in 2016 and one of my teachers said something that still rings true, he said that we now live in a post-truth world. Nobody is interested in critically analyzing the facts and evidence. Everyone thinks that any facts or evidence that contradicts any aspect of their belief system must be an attempt to decieve them, and so our society is being modelled after the biases, prejudices and gut feelings of a smaller and smaller minority of people with the most exteme beliefs. Whoever can say the most contentious rhetoric, the stuff that gets the most attention from both supporters and detractors, ends up controlling the narrative and the overton window shifts along with them. This is why the republican party has become the party of what was only a couple years ago considered the "alt right", and liberal progressivism that was considered the dominant position in the Obama era is now being considered extremist and the democrats are moving further and further right.
I never watched Jubilee since I never knew about it. Thanks, Michael, for showing me another YT channel to avoid that causes brain rot.
The difficulty in having an honest debate among the parties is that they are not aligned on their basic premises and therefore will argue past each other.
It's like having a boxing match where the participants enter separate, but adjacent rings. They can see their opponent and the strikes, but never feel them.
Premise alignment needs to happen first, but that's often so basic and technical that it doesn't make good television.
For example defining what rights are, what are the criteria for those rights, analyzing a specific group and determining if they meet those criteria, teasing out any exceptions, the philosophy of those exceptions, and if there are contradictions in application.
It's long and is boring and won't get clicks.
This is me learning what Jubilee is in real time. Thanks Wisecrack!
I'm glad you didn't have to know about it until now!
Ditto. I thought for a second you were railing against the Biblical practice or debt forgiveness, or the X-Man…
I have been waiting for this video for months. Less than 10 mins in and it already did not disappoint at all.
There is no "middle ground" when talking about human rights. You are either for people having rights or against it, and if you are against it you yourself do not deserve any rights. The people against human beings being human beings have never in their life had to fight for rights of their own.
9:28 “living in the comments” should be his rap name
“Straight out of the comments”
@ we can’t assume he’s straight lol
@@Neighthanyelling indeed, indeed 😂
I'm confused by the complaint over Pete Buttigiege's rise. Michael seemed to be saying that previous elections should be what leads someone to be viable for future leadership roles and that Pete hadn't achieved this due to his being appointed secretary of transportation, but in making his point, Michael laid out three steps in Pete's rise, only one of which was through appointment, the other two being because "people voted for [him] and liked [him]." Sure his rise was quicker than most, but the only reason he got "anointed" by "the democratic establishment" is because they saw a rising star in the democratic party based on him "somehow having done pretty well" in the 2020 primary. And if he were to become a presidential nominee in the future he'd almost certainly have to primary again, which means he'll need to be liked and voted for.
I'm left wondering if Michael thinks politicians, or presidential hopefuls, should never be offered or accept political appointments, and their achievements should be electoral 100% of the time, which if so.... is kind of weird. ngl.
I think the argument being made has to do with qualification and credentials. Being a mayor doesn't guarantee having the skill in either category to oversee the Department of Transportation.
@@Hawkenwhacker I hear you but if that was his point he made it in a pretty convoluted way. It sounded to me like he was more upset about Pete being tee'd up for a future presidential administration than him lacking expertise in transportation.
My own guess at what led Michael to disparage Buttigiege's rise is that in 2020, after Joe Biden, Pete Buttigiege was the front-runner in terms of "establishment" Democratic contenders, having won Iowa. Despite this, after the South Carolina primary went to Biden, he was the first of the non-progressive hopefuls to drop out and endorse Biden, with the rest of contenders quickly following suit. This shored up Biden's support, and essentially turned the rest of the campaign into a two man race between him and Bernie Sanders (with the possible exception for Elizabeth Warren who wouldn't drop out till much later and if anything drew away support from Bernie). So I think for many people, Biden's later appointment of Buttigiege had the appearance of a corrupt "quid pro quo" to make Bernie lose and have the race go to Biden.
2 things though; 1. if this was Michael's point he still didn't do a good job of making it. And 2. making deals and bargains is fundamental to politics, so thinking it's corrupt to exchange one political loss for the potential of a future political gain seems, at least to me, misguided at best. Bernie got outplayed, but he also knew the game he was playing. It was on him to win the majority of votes whether he was facing one establishment candidate or a dozen.
Mike I'm a man and that is false I want to sleep with muitple men.
thank you for clarifying and spreading the truth
Many people that influence the public discourse do not operate in good faith to seek the best solution but instead simply want their side to win at all costs, intellectual integrity be damned.
The way I see it, finding the middle ground is not so much about validating a ridiculous or immoral pov, but rather it's about validating whatever life experiences the other person has had that got them to this point, and in so doing then maybe you get them to extend the same courtesy to you and hopefully see you as a human who is just humaning and not trying to get the country to implode on itself. To me it beats the alternative, which is dismissing the other side as dumb or evil, thus alienating them and making sure your "irreconcilable differences" stay actually irreconcilable.
To be clear this doesn't mean validating (for example) homophobia, but acknowledging that someone's upbringing may have encouraged that stance... But they are still human and still learning, all of us are.
That said, the dude that said that "fat people deserve to be laughed at" has some nerve shaming anyone for their appearance when he himself looks like he escaped a videogame from the late '90s.
I thought that you were going to throw shade on Jubilee from the XMen. *Wrath Spared*
no way that Jubilee rips
i’ve been hearing similar sentiment about jubilee for a while now, you put it very eloquently & gave some great examples
0:29 I will be seeing this in my nightmares for the foreseeable future
There's something here about how respect for individuality promotes misinformation due to elevating the opinions of ignorant loudmouths.
Who decides what truth is? Who decides what is a sincere belief and what is just hateful, conspiratorial fluff?
jubilee seems like the pseudo intellectual equivalent to kids putting a couple of spiders in a cup and shaking it up to get them to fight.
Jubilee treats it as if both sides has merits. A bigoted/unscientific side shouldn't platformed. There's no middle ground between reason and lack off. A debate is between both sides that not only have merit and study, but also when both sides are interested in edification.
Jubilee is only interested in views, their livelihood is based on the algorithm of engagement and not actual validity of ideas. You can see this example most sharply when Ben Shapiro was smiling through out his episode. He knows he doesn't have to be correct, his interest is in getting paid and expanding his reputation. He doesn't lose anything from "losing the debate", he still gets paid.
I liked jubilee when it first started and made actually good debates with genuine conversations but then it just went off the rails and into the toilet
For a moment, I thought this was about the virtuous practice of Jubilee. Instead, I discovered this was really about the spiritual successor to the Jerry Springer Show.
Not having watched one of these, the simple text pop-ups of "I am great at sex" and "I am afraid of death" are hysterical.
Important video, glad you are not afraid to discuss the legitimacy of other channels, I do think there is a logical problem with your argument, since you explain a lot of problems related to philosophy with the help of the channel's scientific content and a lot of scientific problems with the help of philosophers' content, there is a significant difference between a discussion of Republicans and Democrats who live in the same country, and scientists and those who do not believe in vaccines. The second debate is at best unnecessary and at worst causes the spread of misinformation, but in my opinion the first debate is important, democracy is based on social polarization and hard concessions if you don't hear the other side at all, then there will be no democracy. There are important arguments for both the pro-guns and the opponents, there are good arguments for both the Israeli and Palestinian sides, it is important to discuss what fat shaming does to a person mentally, but also to give space to say that the idealization of obesity is a negative thing, there is no doubt that people like the idiot who laughs at fat people, or people Those shouting from the river to the sea should not reach a place where they can be heard, but the discussion between different philosophical parties is important. Another comment said it well, the problem is not finding the middle ground but the argument in the videos
Aw dang, I have disagreements with Alain Badiou's materialist epistemology, I sure hope Jubilee sets up a video where we can debate while playing musical-chairs or something.
Thanks for saying it. Every video recently has been unhinged.
I've always liked the quote "It's possible to be so open minded your brain falls out"
Jubilee could've been something potentially really interesting, instead it's worse than trash, it's actively spreading and giving legitimacy to harmful ideas and opinions to a wider audience.
Thank you for expressing my exact thoughts on this!
Brilliant. Thanks for the enlightenment on something I've felt for a long time but could grasp my comprehension on. I can't believe I hadn't subscribed to you yet.
Guy's rap name should be dipshizzle mcgizzle
I realized this effect just after Roe was overturned. The conservative framing of the spectrum of abortion accessibility as "no abortion" to "choice of abortion until viability and/or medically necessary" makes it so easy to label the already centrist position of "choice" as extremist and thereby demand a "compromise" which can only restrict access. The Platonic ideal of this debate would have the spectrum be "no abortions" to "all abortions" at which point a utopian constituency could have a debate and let the chips fall where they may.
For the algorithm!
For this to get attention, &
For the algorithm!
Fiiiiinally! Thank you! Thank you for someone finally acknowledging and calling out Jubilee's heel turn. I've felt it was coming for quite a while before it finally happened but the vibes where there years before. There were a few months befoee it actually happened when it was obvious from their content that there were discussions being had behind the scenes about which way to go.
If you are reading this, no it wasn't all in your head there for a while. Yes, Jubilee did change. You weren't going crazy. You have been gaslit. Thank you!
11:59 "Satanists vs. Major religions" is one of the stupidest things I've read in while.
I’m so happy not a single video from them has been proposed in my feed in 20 years 🎉
Most of the time they present it as left vs right, when in reality it’s just liberal (which is moderately right wing) vs conservatives which is far right. They almost never have any communist or socialist on. They’re trying to find a middle ground that is going right wing.
Great video! Thank imma show some friends on a small 2 hour car ride we have today 😃 thanks for the hard work guys and gals!
have a safe/fun drive!
@@WisecrackEDU will do! Going to play a gig with my pop punk/emo band!
Love your videos!
So, I once signed up to be in a Jubilee video. It was a middle ground about being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints versus ex members. I was so excited when I actually got a response back and was asked to come be a part of it! However, a major family thing happened, and I was no longer able to come. That was all the way back in 2020. They never made the video, and I now when I look , realize it might've actually been a very difficult situation, and I'm grateful now I never went.
I was excited because I wanted to share my beliefs in a safe place, but now I realize I might've just been attacked.
drama baiting clicks has def helped lead to the devolution of political discourse. You are never allowed to have nuanced takes online, cause thats not easily captured in a short clip or tik tok. All recent attempts at debate and discourse is just yelling talking points at each other instead of trying to find new understanding. IDK how you ever fix that. Its almost like the medium prevents it. I also blame dems for not counter messaging enough tho and capitulating to right wing framing on almost every issue.
The really scary part of accepting that truth exists and discourse is not just about averaging extreme viewpoints, is that perhaps we are objectively wrong about something.
Yes, of course, the world is round, slavery is wrong, and trans people deserve rights. But what are the positions we hold that can be legitimately challenged? Why do we suppose we are always on the right side?
I never heard of Jubilee, but I would watch the episode with Michael Burns in it.
Gong show entertainment. This used to be called “balanced journalism” and it’s what led people to believe that global climate change was undecided science.
i'll just keep it simple - if im within arm's reach of shapiro or kirk.... i ain't gonna be debating them lol
I’m a big fan of the Wisecrack content, but English isn’t my first language, and it’s tough to focus on the subject with the background music playing a bit too loud. Is there a way on UA-cam to lower the volume or turn it off altogether?
The shock factor gets views! But so does honest, genuine content like yours. If your goal is to just get views, what they're doing works... but can't be sustained.
"If someone says it's raining and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out of the fucking window and find out which is true."
What did she ever do to YOU??
This is about the mutant with the yellow jacket, right?
Crazy how out of the huge variety of videos i have seen, the one group/podcast that keeps getting dissed by everyone is Fresh n Fit 😂😂😂
The old saying: everything in moderation, including moderation.
Solid vid as always
11:49 “asking for a friend” 😂
It’s crazy how ideological WISECRACK has become. I’m not part of either extreme, but I used to be a fan of this group when they spoke more about film and their philosophical implications. But the opinions of these creators are clearly damning of a certain. Not nearly as explorative as they used to be. Every time I see a new video, i honestly feel more annoyed than more videos from jubilees. I think this is a dishonest representation of those videos. They’re not perfect, but I do feel they “attempt” to be fair. This channel is clearly meant to discredit the free speech they find “objectively wrong”. Ideologically driven. Fuck all that
I saw the title and thought what could be wrong with debt forgiveness and a fresh start for everybody every 5 or 10 years . Then i saw it was that tv show and i dont think we have time for everything that is wrong with it
I really like the part about how jubilee has a problem (and is one) ❤
10/10 Video using hip-hops introduction to the music scene to explain material dialectics... *chefs kiss* I'm loving the direct Wisecrack is going into.
25:29 this is my favorite part🥰🥰🥰
14:32
lol yep, that Logan Roy "you are not serious people" quote has definitely been popping in my head lately. I'm all for this video. The election really has me contemplating how helpful a lot of this political content and online discourse actually is
Ooooo fresh Wisecrack, hot off the press. Jubilee is wild.
I always bring up the same comic as an example of why the center is not always the moral position. I do not know the original artist but it is a street with Civil Rights leaders on one side and a KKK rally on the other. In the middle of the street a lone man holds up a sign that says 'compromise'. That really boils down the point as directly as it can be.
Lil Recently Divorced Dad
nice.
I'm glad more people are calling this awful channel out. I watched a couple of random videos of theirs and I liked them even though parts of it made me a little mad. And then i realised that's what they want. They want people on both sides seething after hearing people on the other side saying things they find outrageous. And like you said, it's not like they're getting two different groups to debate something like abortion in a respectful decent way. They're getting 2 different groups to debate stuff in a way that they'll never come to an agreement. Plus the sides are often "I'm x person" vs "x people should die"
White Rapper = Florida Man
The funny thing is that the marvel/DC middle ground was treated as a throwaway but that was actually valid debate subject matter
The Overton Window in America is so far right!
The whole thing here seems pretty performative though. Like people just spitting hot takes to gain exposure, or something. (I don't know, I'm too old for this sh1t!)
Jubilee presents the veneer of an intellectual debate, while platforming prominent people with extremist positions on the "topic" (e.g. Myron) and usually doesnt do the same for the common sense side. This doesnt even get into the idea of a debate in this day and age, where its more about spectacle and talking points, sending your message to the broader audience, instead of trying to reason with your opponent to have them understand your position and change their mind.
Also, Jubilee presenting loaded questions that have implications that are sometimes as bad as dehumanization, e.g. the criminals don't deserve certain legal rights.
I think Matt Bernstein, Saji Sharma, and a few others have made similar videos critical of Jubilee highlighting their major issues, with Matt speaking on how their original videos changed to today's kind of videos as they got more attention and more money
25:32 Desires expressed 😂
Most sane Jubilee person