With such a range and price point, I would have though it would be a great competitor to the Bentley Bentayga, Range Rover Autobiography, and other similar car, not the Model X.
not too many people know that. How many tractors did they sell back in those days? I mean look at the Lexus LFA in 2012, amazing car for Aventador money, How many people would take the LFA over a Aventador right now?
Ford success in Europe started out with slave labour in Germany. it boosted their capital, their existence that kept them alive until the bailout from Bush and Obamma
starchaser28 Hmm.....So Ford developed faster cars........and faster cars....all doing 5mph in traffic jams.....At least you could collect the manure from the horse and put it on the food garden.....Adding value to the journey and no road tax or fuel tax or VAT or car tax.....5mph sounds good value then!
Through my wife, I know of an engineer who left a well paid job, to join Dyson's project. He was consequently out of a job. I'm not blaming Dyson, but did he not learn anything from Tesla's gargantuan battle against, fossil-fuelled, 'Big Auto'? It was obviously not going to be a walk in the park, was it?
The car market is one of the most competitive in the world. There is easier markets to crack than the car market. Even Apple has decided not to enter it despite spending tons of money on their car project. Dyson would be better off licensing the battery technology to car makers.
@@joeyknight8272 Apple has a car project called Titon. They hired engineers and have invested tons in R&D but it is looks like they decided to not enter the car market because it's too competitive and the margins are too low. Apple would probably be better off buying a stake in VW or Mercedes then starting their own car division.
@@AutoTraderTV "spewing out emissions"........exhaust emissions are measured in ppm (parts per million). Nothing has been manufactured for decades that is simply allowed to "spew". Is a tired old cleche for cheap effect all you are capable of coming up with? Furthermore no manufacture would reject an easy and cheap way of meeting ever tightening emissions regs. You are just repeating conspiracy theory garbage Rory. At least in analysing the cost of building electric you gave the manufacturers some credit
@@xtc2v The suspicion has to be that Dyson's idea for emission reduction just did not work as well as he pretends or, if it did work at all, was far too expensive, or, most likely, it could not operate over the distance legislation demands (80,000 miles or more).
@@geraldryan7544 Agreed, otherwise VW group would have used it as a simple fix for their emissions scandal! In fact, all car manufacturers would I'm sure prefer a zero emission ICE car over the massive investment needed for producing and EV....I would wager that the Dyson filter didn't work!
I wrote an article for a business magazine on the foolhardiness of Dyson's electric car project. I called it his Sinclair C5 moment. He had experimental battery technology which he was trying to commercialize at light speed. Most other solid state battery researchers thought that the potential for a commercial battery was five to ten years longer than the timescale Dyson had given himself. Dyson also chose to start from scratch. His potential competitors, the existing car manufacturers, already had production lines. His potential competitors had existing car models. He was building something completely new when his competitors were engaged in product modification. He had small capacity. His potential competitors had huge capacity to produce. Dyson was developing his own battery technology, not linking to an existing supplier. Again more cost. Dyson was trying to develop a new battery technology, smaller lighter batteries but with faster charging times and greater capacity. There were lots of rumours that said batteries were unable to provide the power output demanded by the Dyson Car. this is exactly the problem Sinclair had with the C5. Sinclair had developed a new battery technology (something he had been working on for decades) BUT his batteries weren't ready for commercial launch so the C5 was a busted flush that had to be pedalled up the slightest of hills. Dyson could have gone into a joint venture to supply his new battery technology to the existing car industry. By focusing on the battery alone rather than trying to build a new car from scratch, he may have got better results. Instead, at the launch of his car project, Dyson chose to slag off the existing car industry and go it alone. It was always going to be a problem for Dyson to launch his new car at a competitive price. He was operating at the edge of commercial viability with his battery technology add a lack of economies of scale and existing vehicle parts -suspension, brakes, etc, his car was always going to e hugely expensive and produced in small batches. Just look at the issues Tesla had when demand exceeded their production capacity.
For many years I designed and manufactured systems for commercial vehicles. I loved working on the most complex and unusual ones. It is fun to invent some new way of making a thing work. It was quire engrossing. The very hardest part of that job was knowing when to walk away, when to call a customer and admit that I couldn't make a gizmo that fit their requirements. Often I would go back and revisit these rare failures and try again.. and again, often spending unjustifiably large sums. I didn't have Dyson's budget but I understand the emotion, and I feel his pain.
Exactly. Selling $90 vacuum cleaners for $500 and everybody talks about it. "I got a Dyson!" When you build a brand, you can't cheapen it by low prices. How many people bought up to an iPhone just to show off that they have an iPhone. Same with a Dyson car. Those of us who didn't buy up to a Dyson or an iPhone would probably not buy up to a Dyson car. But there a plenty of people who would. Dyson just needs to bring together the capital, partners, suppliers, employees to make it happen. Just in case he didn't know, Tesla's patents are out there, just ask Xpeng.
@@allall-hz2ji someone doesnt know shit, but it's okay we need stupid people like you for our society to function, low IQ is actually needed to keep the world going.
@@TheGreenGolem VW are, they made it look easy with the ID.3! Showed Tesla how a REAL car manufacturer gets shit done! They can close the books now the big boys are here!
To be fair half a billion is small money in the car company world. That's about the cost of retooling a medium sized factory. I'm impressed all that design and testing work only cost £500million
dont be so sure. its capex. and they are writing it off. they will adjust against other profits of the company. and we are not sure how much tax breaks they got for green energy project. dont get me wrong. they will lose money. just not as much as the headlines make it out to be.
A significant amount of that money was UK government grants. Dyson then buggered off to Singapore to cut his tax bill and to avoid future inheritance tax.
Dyson is way ahead of the time!!! This project will surely comeback, it must! He's a visionary, some people don't understand. We need such people, the world needs such people.
If batteries were the biggest cost. I Wonder why he didn’t just trim the range down to say 3-400miles this way he has a product to start off. Sale some units and in future release your 1000mile car once the market is more familiar with the brand. Perhaps he tried to do too much with his first product.
When the manufactures claim, say 300 mile range, that's usually in ideal weather conditions on flat roads. So out in the real world it'll certainly be less. Factor in battery degradation over a few years & the range anxiety could become a real problem.
@@ONYX-365 Not when it comes to the 100kwh Model S & X that Dyson was trying to compete with. 300 Miles is not efficient for a 100kwh Pack. That's in bad condtions.
@@ONYX-365 "Factor in battery degradation over a FEW years" LIES! Battery does not massively degrade around 8 Years. It plateaus for several years under 10%. That is a well known statistics of Lithium Ion BEVs real world fleet data.
@@nitin577 Before Elon Musk got involved, it was a 'hobby' company. It was Elon who took it from a project to build an electric sports car, and moulded into a software, energy, and auto company for the mass market...olong side Spacex, Starlink, Neurolink and Open AI, all simultaneously. You try doing that.
Somethings didn't arrive. The project manager was promised SSB batteries, they still haven't arrive. The project manager couldn't foresee that Dyson would choose to build a factory in one of the most expensive cities on the planet.
"If anyone can make an electric car work it's him, surely!" No. Not at all. We generally struggle to understand that the automotive industry is one, if not THE most complex industry in the world. The level of optimization it has gone through in the last century it's something not easy to comprehend, the amount of regulations and standards it has to meet is overwhelming, and it doesn't stop here... all of this while mantaining rigorous quality control AND the production rates of a can factory, oh, and don't forget the post-sell support and assistance and the practically non existent margins in all but a few segments. That's why Tesla still struggles to achieve the QC of even the cheapest japanese or european citycar, and that's why NO, having distrupted the vacuum cleaner market is not a qualification to make a big splash in this incredibly hard industry sector.
I agree. I've been a development engineer for most years of the last 24. It is sodding difficult and sodding expensive. My years outside of the automotive industry were as a development engineer in the aero-engine industry. Damn, they ARE expensive. Don't think you';; get many start-ups competing with the Trent 700 !
You're of talking out your butt really. He messed up because he worked backwards he designed the car before sorting out his supply chain, when he got around to doing so it was a surprise. It can and has happened to others in every industry. It can be said Tesla only exists because they managed a deal with Panasonic for batteries, there were other EV manufacturers when coming out along with Tesla when it. Tesla secured a battery the others didn't, Tesla is here the others are not. Same thing is happening with Dyson. The crap you spouted has nothing to do with that.
@@ExileXCross do you realize the reasons you gave for Tesla's success doesn't negate the points of the original comment? And why would you insult a random person on the internet for a perceived differing opinion?
@@ExileXCross Musk had the capabilities, ie lots of very cash rich friends, It was his Hollywood friends that save Space X, to raise money to build his own battery factory. Dyson already has such a factory and it been expanding for years.
Tesla is creating a full package, owning the car the batteries, the data, self-drive, software, insurance, and data network ie Starlink. it could be a bit like Amazon in that the full fast delivery package becomes so good no one else can compete. Maybe Dyson's realization is it's not just hardware.
Too much about his ego and profit , so it won't end up being as truly revolutionary. Profit is the shavkle electric vehicle's are bound too. Yes I know you're going to say we have to make money. Notice how much cleaner the world is since it was stopped in its tracks. We could find a way to adjust and live so this could continue. But we don't care enough.
@@LafemmebearMusic NASA didn't operate the Space Shuttles with profit in mind and they ended up being so expensive that they had to cancel the entire program. Today Musk is shuttling people to the Space station, not only at a MUCH lower cost than what it used to cost NASA 10 years ago, but even much less than what it costs NASA to utilize the Russian Soyez rockets to take the Astronauts up... and that's INCLUDING a tidy Profit for SpaceX. Profits serve a purpose, not only as seed money for expanded research and development, but also as a catalyst to improve efficiency.
Don't forget Tesla Solar! You can now get a V3 Tesla Solar glass tile roof and 2-V2 Powerwalls for less than installing a Metal Roof, a Barrel Tile Roof or concrete tile roof, by the time you factor in energy savings. Also, Tesla will soon roll out software that will allow their PowerPacks located all around the world at their charging stations, along with your Powerwall and your car to all connect to the Grid to become a virtual power company. Saving excess energy to then give back to the grid during peak times.
i think this is one of the times Dyson got it all wrong.. instead of trying to make one of the most high quality expensive heaviest cars in the world.. he should of concentrated on developing one of the cheapest high quality lightest cars in the world ... he owns advanced plastic mouldings facility's .. he owns advanced battery factory's.. and he owns advanced electric motor manufactures.. he had the technology and the mind to make something different .. but sadly he went for beefing up something that was already there
Something you didn’t mention Rory - Patents! All of this design and innovation is not completely wasted. I imagine Dyson have created innovations they will hope to share with other car companies during this project. Motors, batteries for example. I expect Dyson will end up recouping and in fact making money from this in the long run.
And yet Elon because he is vertically integrated can sell an SUV for $60,000 and make 25% margin. Dyson on the other hand has to buy technology to build his car
For Dyson to sell the product in the UK the 600 mile range doesn’t make sense. However if his intended audience is the USA then it makes total sense. My children just came up from Texas to see me, that trip was 875mi. one way, about 14 hours nonstop driving. Even with shorter trips you would still have to figure in excess power for air conditioning, heating, mountainous terrains, battery pack heaters, etc, etc,.
Car making business is a very heavy capital investment. Tesla spent more than $10 billions to build up all supply chain and factory over a period of 10+ years. In some quarter, Tesla spent like $1billion on capx. Dyson lost $500M is like nothing.
About the 600 mile range, that might not be a huge asset in the UK, but in the US, that would really relieve much of the range anxiety around electric cars. It is not all that uncommon to drive 1000 miles a day for a long trip here, so the 600 mile range would have made the recharging stops so much less frequent.
@johnDomain Tesla is beyond amazing, it's scary where they are now. Going to be an Anti-Trust problem in over a decade. Newest Surviving Automaker going to be a Bully. Once thought Impossible.
Ahmed Alhashmi Oh I have. It was actually closer to 7%. The overall percentage is largely irrelevant and of course an ICE and BEV don’t have not a lot in common. One of the hardest parts of car manufacture is the chassis as there’s tonnes of red tape, safety regulatory rules to abide by. That’s why they got help from Lotus. That’s why most car companies share chassis between models. As this is the foundation of the car you cannot say the roadster was from scratch. But there’s no shame on Tesla getting help from Lotus as they are one of the best when it comes to building lightweight sports cars
You've hit the nail on the head with the partnership angle; Dyson should've partnered up with an established part of the supply chain for EVs or at least another manufacturer. Even the mighty Tesla compromised on this; the first Tesla-powered EV had a Toyota badge, the second was a modified Lotus design and the third, while very much a Tesla design, had Mercedes switchgear in the interior because they knew what corners could be cut at that stage. The range-you-think-you-need is another good point; people don't actually need to go as far as they think they do in one go. But they do need to be able to charge up as quick as they can with an internal combustion engine, which currently isn't possible no matter how much you spend on an EV. So perhaps Dyson should've looked at creating a charger/battery combination that could rival refuelling times of a petrol/diesel pump. That would be truly revolutionary.
Cool vid. Very nicely put together. I would feel more sorry for Dyson, I appreciate his ambition, but having owned a couple of Dyson prods myself, I personally think they’re actually not that special, overpriced and overhyped.
600 mile car journey does make sense. It makes sense since people want to "charge" their car less and have the freedom knowing that it will run out of juice after 600 miles. I feel Dyson should be in talks with TOGG and now allow his technology to go to waste.
What is clear is that Dyson didn’t know how to build high end electronic systems from scratch nor did they know how to build their own battery system, in other words he didn’t know how to actually make the thing work. However I think the problem was that in the UK they treated the project as a sure thing. That grew expectations to levels that were not achievable
I was thinking the same thing. but good old Clive lost the lot but his vision and idea still can be seen today in Mobility scooters. At least James pulled the plug lol.
Paddy Coleman Hmm! I remember seeing the Sinclair C5 aerial poking up over my car bonnet at traffic lights......almost forgetting the blooming C5 thing was there! C5Good on a bike lane maybe due for a refurbishment! Is Sinclair still alive....if so somebody should tell him....Imagine a whole Supermarket car park with 2021 model C6’s....complete with shopping basket....Er? Handbasket.
@@SKYLIMI TBH, i don't like or respect Dyson, he built his business up in the UK then moved the manufacturing side abroad for the cheap labour, so we give him a knighthood. He is a pro brexit spokesman but moved his hq to Singapore for the lower corporation tax, if he actually gave a shit for the UK he could move back here.
Very nice summary of the story. I work in the Auto industry as an engineer and followed Dyson from the start of its EV project. They really were wildly naive from the start. Saying they were "Ambitious" was a more kind way of putting it. From the start, senior level Dyson employees were ringing alarm bells that the EV project could bring the company down. Just read some of the Glassdoor reviews. A more fundamental issue was their urge to re-engineer every aspect of the car. They were literally trying to re-invent the wheel. This is where Tesla excels; Tesla leans heavily on Tier1 suppliers to bring in existing hardware with no radical customizations. Instead of all-out hardware superiority, Tesla also banked on software and they are 5 years ahead of even the big Auto players. Dyson EV had no chance. Dyson does well with their premium consumer products and they are really nice to use. However, from an objective technical view, they are over engineered, over priced & not that robust (a philosophy that does not work for new EV companies). What vacuum cleaner does the local car wash use.... its a Karcher, Hoover or a Henry.
So the Cybertruck 3 motor ~$70k and Dyson $200k so total product proposition failure. His target should have been Defender X P400 ~£100k that was easy to beat with an EV with Magna and Ineos on board?
John Dinsdale no one in the traditional car manufacturing has the knowledge to develop electric systems . That has been the biggest problem car manufacturers face. They were used to just buy components but it turns out no one knows how to build them.
Seems to me Dyson needs to re engineer his car. One loose weight Two settle for a less miles per battery charge Three offer a 10 year warranty. Hes then got a winner
Mr Dyson be like: "We are building an electric car" Dyson Engineers be like: "Should we tell him? Dyson Accountants be like: "No, we'll tell him after the prototype production is complete" Mr Dyson: "This car is expensive to make, I wish someone had told me this sooner"
Hi Rory! I just have a question. Couldn't James Dyson have NOT made the car so ambitious since it was going to have some cool features(like the range etc.)? Couldn't he have made the car for example a 5 seater and not want to make it have a 600 mile range? What if he didn't make the car as cool as it looks and step it down a bit so it would be more affordable and not £150,000 just to make profit of it. Also, couldn't he have made the car with another automotive company that was willing to invest in this project? Finally about the exhaust he made, couldn't he use it if he were to make a diesel SUV instead of an electric so the cost lowers? I mean he could have tried to sell it again now since going green and diesel is a problem now. Thanks and I hope you can answer my questions! Regards, Alex
He could have done all of those things (dumbed it down), but that's not Dyson's style. That's why they've been so successful elsewhere. I'm not sure the exhaust filter he invented would catch on today due to the fact we now have diesel particular filters and AdBlue. -Rory Thanks Alex.
What I know is that the price of 'most' electric cars is prohibitively high for most of us. It occurred to me that if I bought a five year old Nissan Leaf costing roughly 5 grand, I could then buy a new battery from Nissan and virtually have a new car. I have read that Nissan will sell you the lastest battery they have for roughly 5 grand also. So all in all it costs somewhere close to 10 grand; that could be pounds or dollars, Which by my reckoning is considerably cheaper than most EV's out there. And apart from anything else, who in there right mind buys a new car these days......
Nicely done, Again! It's refreshing to have an automotive journalist be even handed when talking about environmental concerns, and not whinge and moan about the reality that our current car tech is problematic. I could see you taking this even further, would love to see you interview Dyson about this, I think there are good stories ti be heard!
I've always been of the impression that dyson products are overrated , on a different note the guy who presented this video is was excellent , very informative .
You got to be kidding me, right?! I too own 2 of his Dyson vacuum cleaners and over time found they were poorly designed and funny enough both batteries had to be replaced eventually! Thanks God he’s not designing a car let alone a EV!
Great video I've never been convinced by anything made by Dyson In my mind Dyson products are just too expensive for what they are and they feel like gimmicks wrapped in stylish shaped plastic
I am an early adapter. The primary reason I bought a 2014 Model S, P-85 was because of the Supercharger network Tesla was developing even back then. Today that system allows me to recharge (for free for as long my P-85 exists ... a benefit no longer available) on the Interstate system at stations no further than 150 miles apart. The reality of my Tesla being a quality, over 90% efficient, vehicle notwithstanding.
evrim Kaya There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. All the "tax the rich" idiots fail to realise that the rich simply go elsewhere when you tax them too much, and you end up getting nothing at all.
It's a very size efficient car. Three row wagon/crossover the size of a midsize sedan. The flat floor frees up space inside. I love they also put in minivan styled sliding doors.
In my opinion, as an electric car owner, a 500mi range electric car would totally be welcome. Once all the range loss variables are taken into account, this would be a great number. Taking into account cold weather, higher speed driving, towing, charging to 90%, battery degradation, and charger speed and location, a 500mi theoretical range could be knocked down to a useable 300-400mi range pretty quickly. A 600mi range is probably a little overkill though (although maybe for towing).
I know people and partners who worked with him that would take opposite view (ruthless control freak is one comment). Personally, I had one of his products and I hold that the company sells massively overpriced and poorly engineered, unreliable crap (or semi crap) - but with design panache and good marketing. Ulimate in PT Barnum style over any substance .
@@bbbf09 I agree. Most of these companies are built on marketing. I'm not one of his fans. He's not a serious dude. Stick to overpriced vacuum cleaners.
I'm a venture capitalist & I'm currently working on an indigenous electric vehicle in India!!! we're facing more or less the same problem as Dyson but we have found a way around it!!! the Dyson EV is a 100% viable project can be materialized in less than 24 months!!! No, I'm not kidding!!!
Elon only owns 20% of Tesla. Like Tesla Dyson would need a good business plan to attract investments to challenge or do a Tesla. Dyson would need to change the mane to get investors.
@@giths19 He wouldn't need to "Challenge" Tesla. His goal was to challenge the other automakers and I for one am sad that he didn't have the balls to follow through. Let's keep in mind that at one point Tesla AND SpaceX were hemorrhaging money and Elon decided to go ALL IN and basically put all of his money into saving BOTH companies. His gamble has now paid off and he's worth BILLIONS because of it. Hell, if things keep going the way they've been going he could be the worlds first TRILLIONAIRE. Part of the reason for that is because people like Dyson and Apple and many others have dropped the ball with Electric cars and are leaving it all for Tesla. Oh well, more market share for Tesla to take over as the world transitions from ICE cars to Electric.
Dyson used a key phrase 'commercially viable'. Tesla has non stop had to go cap in hand to keep them afloat and has never made a year on year profit in the16 years of its operation and that's on top of any number of government subsidies. Space X had 7 decades of rocket science to build on along side having access to; modern materials, tech and computers and STILL took 7 years longer to do something NASA did 6 decades ago.
I assumed Dyson's car would be on the other end of the scale: the ultra affordable people's car - the Beetle, the Fiat 500, but electric. Ah well. I like Rory in this format. Classy.
No you can he was vain and irrational, the man has been a bit off in general lately. He was massively pro-Brexit but then once he got his way he moved Dysons HQ across to Singapore along with his residence.
His priority should have been to make the first 200 mile range electric car for under $20 k. Leave out all the frills of a Tesla and just make a utilitarian people box that runs on magnet-juice.
That's a good idea, but doesn't work due to battery economies of scale. Unless one spent about 10 billion pounds, it's not possible to build a small EV profitably due to battery costs. Large volume battery production is needed to drive down battery costs. It's a reason Hyundai/Kia build so few EVs and why Tesla can built them at a massive gross profit: battery economies of scale. It's all about battery costs and investing billions to lower them.
Sometimes people tend to buy stuffs on the base of "Just in case". Just like how some of pickup truck owners buy pickup and never actually use neither the bed or the towing capability. When asked, some of them would probably say "But someday I'm probably gonna need it".
Exactly. Each passenger is more dead weight and significantly reduced range. Put four adults in the car and the range is 50 miles, unless you use the air conditioner which is 25 mile range, and going up a steep hill knocks it down to 10 mile range. And of course the battery has lost 50% of it's charge capacity in 5 years; new batteries will set you back $15,000. Definitely lease, don't buy. In five years technology will be 10 times better and a new car will have better range...for a much higher price
A Brazilian dude made It out of a wash machine's engine and gel batteries, sometimes peopple doesn't matter How smart they are, they try to reinvent the Wheel.
I couldn't afford to buy one but I would love to own one. I'd pick that over a Tesla anyday. I know I am going to aggravate all you Tesla fanboys, but I think Tesla is overrated. There. I said it
@@kakerake6018 Watch some of Rich Rebuilds videos too see how p*ss poor their customer service is, their impressions on right to repair, their impressions on disabling features over the air because they say so and just how poor some of the build quality on their vehicles is and that's before you engage with the self righteous tw*ts that are part of the cult of Musk, indoctrinated in to his cabal by their ownership of one of the vehicles.
@@L8ugh1ngm8n1 Tesla is mostly followed like a cult due to the company and Musk having an inhumane drive to change the world and do it with software at the core. I would have bought my Telsa even if it had no doors let alone give a damn about customer support or build quality. May I add besides the doors having a terrible noise while closing them I find the Model 3 has a great quality overall.
You are correct Rory, the real test is demand. All the car companies research their public needs.just sitting back and dreaming of a 2 1/2 ton 7 seater vehicle is crazy. where's the market for such a machine? Car companies need and rely on volume. So Dyson should have cut his cloth to suit the market. Trouble is, as you rightly pointed out, the big boys had done their research and realised they could not do it on their own. Billions were needed, Dyson was out a country mile.The writing was on the wall before electric cars were even thought of. Just look how many car companies have died or amalgamated .
I can see an opportunity here. We have a state of the art car factory in Swindon ( the now defuct Honda plant), only 20 miles from Dysons HQ. We have unemployed engineers and technicians who could go back to work. The government should offer to fund the rest of the project, and Dyson could agree a deal, that if it makes money, they'll pay it back. He could scale down the design to a 5 seater with a 400 mile range and probably match Tesla. Then from this scale it down even further a 4 seater with a 200 mile range for sub 30k and he's got a winner. To have these two assets so close together and mothball both of them seems crazy to me!
With his level of innovation, a car (even with his name) was an exciting prospect. But yeah, probably too ambitious. Despite the popularity of SUV's (questionable), maybe his efforts should have gone more towards reinventing the sedan. (ie Jaguar I Pace). SUV's I feel are over played. Yeah you have a more commanding view of the road. But if everyone is in a SUV, you're back to where you started. Also, with European roads, a SUV is overkill.
Dyson killed his EV project when he realised he doesn't have any of the expertise to make one. Also, Dyson products are worthless: they dont work well and die young. We owned two of his expensive vacuum cleaners and none cleaned well but both broke in a short time. Our Miele vacuum cleaner is 6 years old and still looks and acts new. And it was cheaper than a Dyson, strangely. I think Dysons are for morons.
I've have 2 dysons one a dc14 since 2007 bought from Curry's half price still working perfectly all parts are available on e-bay very cheap. Some people throw them away I usually end up fixing there old Dyson for £7 in parts. The whole thing comes apart like a kit with hardly any tool. If the car was as well made as his vacuum cleaner they were probably worth £150k especially if they lasted 20+ years
Rory is a superb communicator, he was wasted on TG. No one needs 600 mile range so as he said it was a pointless exercise. My first EV is an MG ZS EV, Low cost , high spec and enough range for me 90% of the time, when it isn’t I will plan journeys carefully. Of course I would not turn down an ipace or Tesla X but I dont need them.
Dyson knows how to make money. He wants to make profit like the profit he makes on vacuum cleaners. Tesla are losing billions and not going to go to real profit ever. If he is saying that he needs to sell a car for $180000 so this is the price Tesla needs to sell the model 3
This is basically a regurgetation of the CAR manazine story from about 2 months ago. They even show the pictures and pages in absence of any direct contact with James Dyson. Let's put it down to working limitations due to Covid as you are usually much better on it than this. In terms of cost Dyson is right that he won't make money. Tesla almost never have and the mainstream car manufacturers are struggling to make viable cost effective alternatives for consumers. For VW, Ford etc. think of it like this - cost of an EV = the ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle plus/minus about $12k. Growing numbers of customers are interested in EVs but until Total Cost of Ownership (through govt incentives and economies of scale) is at or close to parity to ICE then low take up and residual values will hold us all back from mass adoption.
Competing in the car industry is in itself an extremely tough job, and competing in it as a complete newcomer offering electric cars exclusively, against companies with many decades of experience behind them, AND WHO ARE BEING AWARDED HUGE SUBSIDIES TO DEVELOP e-CARS is practically mission impossible. So even Dyson failed in this quest. I am aware that electric cars are a technological challenge, but basically the motorisation must be simpler than that of a car which uses a combustion engine, so what is the big deal with the development costs ? Dacia has announced the launch of an electric car for next year, starting at around €11000, so if Dacia can do it, why did Dyson fail ??? I believe that the whole thing collapsed because Dyson wanted to show the world that he can do not only things that the car industry can do, but that he can do them much better ! If the concept had been a medium-sized car with an acceptable range, without all the gimmicks, then I believe that Dyson could have been successful in the car industry, too. 🤷🏼♂️
Mr James Dyson is a smart man. He knows the difference between passion for electric cars and reality. I believe he can build the electric car with another major car manufacturer if he wanted. Looks like he wanna spend more time with his family.
My Triumph bike had a range of about 130 miles and it never stopped me going anywhere. Because refuelling was quick and easy. No reason why electric cars can't be the same. Save costs by making a modest electric car with a 200 mile range and top speed of 100mph. Spend some of that half a billion quid on infrastructure, like Tesla did, and improving charge rates. I'm sure the process of refuelling a Ford Model T in 1908 wasn't as effortless as filling a modern car today. Things will improve.
Always dismissed the idea of a car made by a "vacuum cleaner company" but hearing more about the man himself i must say i really reapect his approach and ingenuity. Really informative vid btw👌
Cars (yes the internal combustion engine ones) made the modern city possible - they saved them from the tons of horse manure that previously filled city streets.
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What would win? 1 Tesla-sized Dyson, or 3 Dyson-sized Teslas?
That's hard question two Dysons
i used to work for Dyson, they should just stay with making vacuum cleaners
With such a range and price point, I would have though it would be a great competitor to the Bentley Bentayga, Range Rover Autobiography, and other similar car, not the Model X.
One Dyson sized Tesla, clearly ;)
Tesla are not only cool functional and fast... they are also desirable and commercially viable. Dyson stumbles badly at the last hurdle.
“A car named after a vacuum cleaner for Lamborghini money”? I don’t know. Why not? Lamborghini started out as a tractor manufacturer.
not too many people know that. How many tractors did they sell back in those days? I mean look at the Lexus LFA in 2012, amazing car for Aventador money, How many people would take the LFA over a Aventador right now?
People pay Landrover money for ice powered vehicles I doubt it's as big an issue as presented
Peugeot started in 1810 making salt and pepper shakers.
Ford success in Europe started out with slave labour in Germany. it boosted their capital, their existence that kept them alive until the bailout from Bush and Obamma
It was supposed to be funny
"“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford
starchaser28 Hmm.....So Ford developed faster cars........and faster cars....all doing 5mph in traffic jams.....At least you could collect the manure from the horse and put it on the food garden.....Adding value to the journey and no road tax or fuel tax or VAT or car tax.....5mph sounds good value then!
Bang on..!! Comment
@@1SpudderR well.. So how many horses do you own.. And how many of them you think you would need to travel a 600 miles.
The point here, is that he asked first.
He didn't invent the automobile and he was a huge racist.
Through my wife, I know of an engineer who left a well paid job, to join Dyson's project. He was consequently out of a job. I'm not blaming Dyson, but did he not learn anything from Tesla's gargantuan battle against, fossil-fuelled, 'Big Auto'? It was obviously not going to be a walk in the park, was it?
The car market is one of the most competitive in the world. There is easier markets to crack than the car market. Even Apple has decided not to enter it despite spending tons of money on their car project. Dyson would be better off licensing the battery technology to car makers.
Does one get the impression Dyson is a vain individual? Could have got some tips from Elon simply by observing or tweeting.
Elon Musk has 100 ton balls. See also the space launch on Wednesday.
@@almac9203 apple ?
@@joeyknight8272 Apple has a car project called Titon. They hired engineers and have invested tons in R&D but it is looks like they decided to not enter the car market because it's too competitive and the margins are too low. Apple would probably be better off buying a stake in VW or Mercedes then starting their own car division.
Holy smokes, just dawned on me that Rory is a good enough journalist that he needn't be hooning about to keep my interest piqued
👍🏾
@@AutoTraderTV "spewing out emissions"........exhaust emissions are measured in ppm (parts per million). Nothing has been manufactured for decades that is simply allowed to "spew". Is a tired old cleche for cheap effect all you are capable of coming up with? Furthermore no manufacture would reject an easy and cheap way of meeting ever tightening emissions regs. You are just repeating conspiracy theory garbage Rory. At least in analysing the cost of building electric you gave the manufacturers some credit
@@xtc2v The suspicion has to be that Dyson's idea for emission reduction just did not work as well as he pretends or, if it did work at all, was far too expensive, or, most likely, it could not operate over the distance legislation demands (80,000 miles or more).
@@geraldryan7544 Agreed, otherwise VW group would have used it as a simple fix for their emissions scandal!
In fact, all car manufacturers would I'm sure prefer a zero emission ICE car over the massive investment needed for producing and EV....I would wager that the Dyson filter didn't work!
@@brownpartnership11 Nothing is cheaper than a bit of software that can run on a computer chip you have to have in the car anyway!
Love these type of vids!
Great video idea.
yep me too! :)
Rory is so good at this.
What video
@@APAstronaut333 Google "Hungry bitches video" watch it completely from beginning to end then come back and comment what you think 😆
I wrote an article for a business magazine on the foolhardiness of Dyson's electric car project. I called it his Sinclair C5 moment. He had experimental battery technology which he was trying to commercialize at light speed. Most other solid state battery researchers thought that the potential for a commercial battery was five to ten years longer than the timescale Dyson had given himself. Dyson also chose to start from scratch. His potential competitors, the existing car manufacturers, already had production lines. His potential competitors had existing car models. He was building something completely new when his competitors were engaged in product modification. He had small capacity. His potential competitors had huge capacity to produce.
Dyson was developing his own battery technology, not linking to an existing supplier. Again more cost. Dyson was trying to develop a new battery technology, smaller lighter batteries but with faster charging times and greater capacity. There were lots of rumours that said batteries were unable to provide the power output demanded by the Dyson Car. this is exactly the problem Sinclair had with the C5. Sinclair had developed a new battery technology (something he had been working on for decades) BUT his batteries weren't ready for commercial launch so the C5 was a busted flush that had to be pedalled up the slightest of hills.
Dyson could have gone into a joint venture to supply his new battery technology to the existing car industry. By focusing on the battery alone rather than trying to build a new car from scratch, he may have got better results. Instead, at the launch of his car project, Dyson chose to slag off the existing car industry and go it alone.
It was always going to be a problem for Dyson to launch his new car at a competitive price. He was operating at the edge of commercial viability with his battery technology add a lack of economies of scale and existing vehicle parts -suspension, brakes, etc, his car was always going to e hugely expensive and produced in small batches. Just look at the issues Tesla had when demand exceeded their production capacity.
What a nicely reasoned set of points. Well put.
puts what tesla has achieved in perspective.
so true... sobering and awe inspiring at the same time
Tesla spent years doing small scale sports car conversions, it didn't come out of nowhere. Still a very impressive entry into the market!
With taxpayers money, you mean?
@@predragbalorda I wont hurt your mind by telling you about taxpayer money and oil companies. I know you can't handle it.
@@larskefka3373 no you won't
For many years I designed and manufactured systems for commercial vehicles. I loved working on the most complex and unusual ones. It is fun to invent some new way of making a thing work. It was quire engrossing. The very hardest part of that job was knowing when to walk away, when to call a customer and admit that I couldn't make a gizmo that fit their requirements. Often I would go back and revisit these rare failures and try again.. and again, often spending unjustifiably large sums.
I didn't have Dyson's budget but I understand the emotion, and I feel his pain.
$150,000 for a luxury SUV from a guy that sells $39.95 Hidden-Bladed, "BLADE-LESS" fans for $500.00! And you are surprised?
Spencer Bardell ....???he didn’t make any or offer any for sale so there was no price.
You are talking about him like he’s the bad guy lmao..
@@paulmcgreevy3011 Watch the video. Dyson stated he would need to sell at that price to make profit..so that's his base price.
Exactly. Selling $90 vacuum cleaners for $500 and everybody talks about it. "I got a Dyson!" When you build a brand, you can't cheapen it by low prices. How many people bought up to an iPhone just to show off that they have an iPhone. Same with a Dyson car. Those of us who didn't buy up to a Dyson or an iPhone would probably not buy up to a Dyson car. But there a plenty of people who would. Dyson just needs to bring together the capital, partners, suppliers, employees to make it happen. Just in case he didn't know, Tesla's patents are out there, just ask Xpeng.
@@foxtrotwolf6081 the iPhone is different since you can not (same OS) get the same elsewhere; you can get a Dyson like vacuum elsewhere
This basically just shows how good Tesla has become as an EV manufacturer.
Lol 😂
@@allall-hz2ji someone doesnt know shit, but it's okay we need stupid people like you for our society to function, low IQ is actually needed to keep the world going.
its not only tesla.. look at hyundai kona/kia e-niro
Agreed, I mean, everyone was laughing when tesla ran into a million production issues with the model 3. Bet no one is laughing now.
@@TheGreenGolem VW are, they made it look easy with the ID.3! Showed Tesla how a REAL car manufacturer gets shit done!
They can close the books now the big boys are here!
‘Little bit too emotionally attached’ huh...the man spent half a BILLION pounds on it!!!
aleast he wasn't like delorean caught by drugs
To be fair half a billion is small money in the car company world. That's about the cost of retooling a medium sized factory. I'm impressed all that design and testing work only cost £500million
dont be so sure. its capex. and they are writing it off. they will adjust against other profits of the company. and we are not sure how much tax breaks they got for green energy project. dont get me wrong. they will lose money. just not as much as the headlines make it out to be.
Donald Escobar Hmm? His Brain drain........ing ...money!
A significant amount of that money was UK government grants. Dyson then buggered off to Singapore to cut his tax bill and to avoid future inheritance tax.
Dyson is way ahead of the time!!! This project will surely comeback, it must! He's a visionary, some people don't understand. We need such people, the world needs such people.
No he isn't, he's a con man selling ordinary products with a slightly different design for ridiculous prices, and you're all falling for it.
Rory, great video, clear, concise, informative and entertaining. Good job. Thanks
Very informative video! Love that it never looks like your reading from a teleprompter. You always seem to do thorough research on your subject.
I really enjoy your “mini documentary” videos. You’re an excellent presenter for them.
"Who on want to buy a car named after a vacuum cleaner for Lamborghini money?
Rory out here flexing on us with MBA level food for thought 😂
My flex-seal cavity
@@APAstronaut333 Sempre!
ISO Rivolta Bizzarini, yeah who would buy a car named after a domestic appliance, and pay more for it than a Ferrari 250 GTO?
and speaking of Lamborghini in the 60's... who would want to buy a car named after a tractor for Ferrari money?
Mitsubishi makes tv sets. So much for your pseudo MBA high thoughts.
If batteries were the biggest cost. I Wonder why he didn’t just trim the range down to say 3-400miles this way he has a product to start off. Sale some units and in future release your 1000mile car once the market is more familiar with the brand.
Perhaps he tried to do too much with his first product.
When the manufactures claim, say 300 mile range, that's usually in ideal weather conditions on flat roads.
So out in the real world it'll certainly be less. Factor in battery degradation over a few years & the range anxiety could become a real problem.
Yeah everything start small
Tesla threw the whole kitchen sink in right out the gate. They just arrived at 'Normal' with the Model 3 and Y
@@ONYX-365 Not when it comes to the 100kwh Model S & X that Dyson was trying to compete with. 300 Miles is not efficient for a 100kwh Pack. That's in bad condtions.
@@ONYX-365 "Factor in battery degradation over a FEW years" LIES!
Battery does not massively degrade around 8 Years. It plateaus for several years under 10%. That is a well known statistics of Lithium Ion BEVs real world fleet data.
Another great and informative video, keep up the good work Rory 👍👍👍
"If anyone can make an electric car work, it's him (James Dyson)."
Elon Musk has entered the chat.
More like the engineers hired by Musk. Don't allow Elon to take their credit.
Callum Ja as if Dyson didn't employ engineers as well. What's your point, exactly?
Elon wasn't the Mastermind behind Tesla... He backed the people who started it
@@nitin577 Before Elon Musk got involved, it was a 'hobby' company. It was Elon who took it from a project to build an electric sports car, and moulded into a software, energy, and auto company for the mass market...olong side Spacex, Starlink, Neurolink and Open AI, all simultaneously. You try doing that.
@@cbromley562 You're forgetting he has teams doing all those jobs and he's the one taking all the credit.
A good project manager would have known the cost of things very early in the project. Something shady was going on here.
I think he could not get suitable team for his project.
Maybe so, big auto ganged up and prevented him getting batteries or software at a decent price??
@@bernardfender5147 There is a battery shortage right now.
Somethings didn't arrive. The project manager was promised SSB batteries, they still haven't arrive. The project manager couldn't foresee that Dyson would choose to build a factory in one of the most expensive cities on the planet.
@@bernardfender5147 His was building his own batteries and hired his own software team.
"If anyone can make an electric car work it's him, surely!"
No. Not at all. We generally struggle to understand that the automotive industry is one, if not THE most complex industry in the world. The level of optimization it has gone through in the last century it's something not easy to comprehend, the amount of regulations and standards it has to meet is overwhelming, and it doesn't stop here... all of this while mantaining rigorous quality control AND the production rates of a can factory, oh, and don't forget the post-sell support and assistance and the practically non existent margins in all but a few segments.
That's why Tesla still struggles to achieve the QC of even the cheapest japanese or european citycar, and that's why NO, having distrupted the vacuum cleaner market is not a qualification to make a big splash in this incredibly hard industry sector.
I agree. I've been a development engineer for most years of the last 24. It is sodding difficult and sodding expensive.
My years outside of the automotive industry were as a development engineer in the aero-engine industry.
Damn, they ARE expensive. Don't think you';; get many start-ups competing with the Trent 700 !
You're of talking out your butt really.
He messed up because he worked backwards he designed the car before sorting out his supply chain, when he got around to doing so it was a surprise. It can and has happened to others in every industry. It can be said Tesla only exists because they managed a deal with Panasonic for batteries, there were other EV manufacturers when coming out along with Tesla when it. Tesla secured a battery the others didn't, Tesla is here the others are not. Same thing is happening with Dyson. The crap you spouted has nothing to do with that.
@@ExileXCross do you realize the reasons you gave for Tesla's success doesn't negate the points of the original comment? And why would you insult a random person on the internet for a perceived differing opinion?
That century of optimisation is essentially being thrown in the bin at the moment an manufacturers have a nearly blank slate to work with.
@@ExileXCross Musk had the capabilities, ie lots of very cash rich friends, It was his Hollywood friends that save Space X, to raise money to build his own battery factory. Dyson already has such a factory and it been expanding for years.
Tesla is creating a full package, owning the car the batteries, the data, self-drive, software, insurance, and data network ie Starlink. it could be a bit like Amazon in that the full fast delivery package becomes so good no one else can compete. Maybe Dyson's realization is it's not just hardware.
Too much about his ego and profit , so it won't end up being as truly revolutionary. Profit is the shavkle electric vehicle's are bound too. Yes I know you're going to say we have to make money. Notice how much cleaner the world is since it was stopped in its tracks. We could find a way to adjust and live so this could continue. But we don't care enough.
@@LafemmebearMusic NASA didn't operate the Space Shuttles with profit in mind and they ended up being so expensive that they had to cancel the entire program. Today Musk is shuttling people to the Space station, not only at a MUCH lower cost than what it used to cost NASA 10 years ago, but even much less than what it costs NASA to utilize the Russian Soyez rockets to take the Astronauts up... and that's INCLUDING a tidy Profit for SpaceX. Profits serve a purpose, not only as seed money for expanded research and development, but also as a catalyst to improve efficiency.
Don't forget Tesla Solar! You can now get a V3 Tesla Solar glass tile roof and 2-V2 Powerwalls for less than installing a Metal Roof, a Barrel Tile Roof or concrete tile roof, by the time you factor in energy savings. Also, Tesla will soon roll out software that will allow their PowerPacks located all around the world at their charging stations, along with your Powerwall and your car to all connect to the Grid to become a virtual power company. Saving excess energy to then give back to the grid during peak times.
i think this is one of the times Dyson got it all wrong.. instead of trying to make one of the most high quality expensive heaviest cars in the world.. he should of concentrated on developing one of the cheapest high quality lightest cars in the world ... he owns advanced plastic mouldings facility's .. he owns advanced battery factory's.. and he owns advanced electric motor manufactures.. he had the technology and the mind to make something different .. but sadly he went for beefing up something that was already there
Haha. If its the same batteries he used in his cordless vacuum cleaners then it would never be off the charger.
I feel you 😂
correct answer
Something you didn’t mention Rory - Patents! All of this design and innovation is not completely wasted. I imagine Dyson have created innovations they will hope to share with other car companies during this project. Motors, batteries for example. I expect Dyson will end up recouping and in fact making money from this in the long run.
@1:30 “who on earth is buying a car named after a vacuum cleaner for Lamborghini money” GOLD 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
And yet Elon because he is vertically integrated can sell an SUV for $60,000 and make 25% margin. Dyson on the other hand has to buy technology to build his car
For Dyson to sell the product in the UK the 600 mile range doesn’t make sense. However if his intended audience is the USA then it makes total sense. My children just came up from Texas to see me, that trip was 875mi. one way, about 14 hours nonstop driving. Even with shorter trips you would still have to figure in excess power for air conditioning, heating, mountainous terrains, battery pack heaters, etc, etc,.
This all sounds like a lot of BS marketing
I totally agree. 600 mile range?? Yeah, right!
That's Dyson all round.
@@MaximilianvonPinneberg i agree, lots of big words, grabbed some Gov money and then leg it, thats Dyson
Car making business is a very heavy capital investment. Tesla spent more than $10 billions to build up all supply chain and factory over a period of 10+ years. In some quarter, Tesla spent like $1billion on capx. Dyson lost $500M is like nothing.
For someone who is such a brilliant businessman, you'd expect him to have figured out the business case for this car long before he did.
Man like Rory dropping knowledge!
He could have pulled it off with government loans like Tesla, and having high end models to begin with for early adopters to offset the cost.
About the 600 mile range, that might not be a huge asset in the UK, but in the US, that would really relieve much of the range anxiety around electric cars. It is not all that uncommon to drive 1000 miles a day for a long trip here, so the 600 mile range would have made the recharging stops so much less frequent.
Shows how amazing Tesla is, they started from scratch. All respect to Dyson.
@johnDomain The fact that they're the leader in EVs? That no other company managed to catch up
@johnDomain Tesla is beyond amazing, it's scary where they are now. Going to be an Anti-Trust problem in over a decade. Newest Surviving Automaker going to be a Bully. Once thought Impossible.
Tesla started off from a Lotus. This car is 100% built from the ground up.
@@TheLewisw1396 You haven't been following. They ended up only using 5%, and they had to re-engineer and redesign the rest.
Ahmed Alhashmi Oh I have. It was actually closer to 7%. The overall percentage is largely irrelevant and of course an ICE and BEV don’t have not a lot in common. One of the hardest parts of car manufacture is the chassis as there’s tonnes of red tape, safety regulatory rules to abide by. That’s why they got help from Lotus. That’s why most car companies share chassis between models. As this is the foundation of the car you cannot say the roadster was from scratch. But there’s no shame on Tesla getting help from Lotus as they are one of the best when it comes to building lightweight sports cars
You've hit the nail on the head with the partnership angle; Dyson should've partnered up with an established part of the supply chain for EVs or at least another manufacturer.
Even the mighty Tesla compromised on this; the first Tesla-powered EV had a Toyota badge, the second was a modified Lotus design and the third, while very much a Tesla design, had Mercedes switchgear in the interior because they knew what corners could be cut at that stage.
The range-you-think-you-need is another good point; people don't actually need to go as far as they think they do in one go. But they do need to be able to charge up as quick as they can with an internal combustion engine, which currently isn't possible no matter how much you spend on an EV. So perhaps Dyson should've looked at creating a charger/battery combination that could rival refuelling times of a petrol/diesel pump. That would be truly revolutionary.
Cool vid. Very nicely put together. I would feel more sorry for Dyson, I appreciate his ambition, but having owned a couple of Dyson prods myself, I personally think they’re actually not that special, overpriced and overhyped.
I agree, both my Dyson vacuums fell apart.
True, they were great when first came out, pioneered the cyclonic vacuum but other people do the same thing cheaper now.
600 mile car journey does make sense. It makes sense since people want to "charge" their car less and have the freedom knowing that it will run out of juice after 600 miles. I feel Dyson should be in talks with TOGG and now allow his technology to go to waste.
More videos with studies like this! All new content has been 🔥
What is clear is that Dyson didn’t know how to build high end electronic systems from scratch nor did they know how to build their own battery system, in other words he didn’t know how to actually make the thing work. However I think the problem was that in the UK they treated the project as a sure thing. That grew expectations to levels that were not achievable
The Dyson equivalent of the Sinclair C5.
I was thinking the same thing. but good old Clive lost the lot but his vision and idea still can be seen today in Mobility scooters. At least James pulled the plug lol.
Paddy Coleman Hmm! I remember seeing the Sinclair C5 aerial poking up over my car bonnet at traffic lights......almost forgetting the blooming C5 thing was there! C5Good on a bike lane maybe due for a refurbishment! Is Sinclair still alive....if so somebody should tell him....Imagine a whole Supermarket car park with 2021 model C6’s....complete with shopping basket....Er? Handbasket.
A Dyson vacuum in India costs around 870$ and expecting a reasonable priced car from dyson is unimaginable...
Dyson, the tax avoiding arch-BRexiter blowing half a £bill? Hahahahahahaaaaa....
loose change to a british hating bell end like Dyson...
How to blow your own country, produce in China, sell in the UK and pay no tax,this is the way
@@SKYLIMI I thought Dysons were made in Malaysia, not China.
@@davesy6969 You're right, it's a pity that nothing came out with the car, but he would build it in Malaysia or UK 😀
@@SKYLIMI TBH, i don't like or respect Dyson, he built his business up in the UK then moved the manufacturing side abroad for the cheap labour, so we give him a knighthood.
He is a pro brexit spokesman but moved his hq to Singapore for the lower corporation tax, if he actually gave a shit for the UK he could move back here.
Very nice summary of the story.
I work in the Auto industry as an engineer and followed Dyson from the start of its EV project. They really were wildly naive from the start. Saying they were "Ambitious" was a more kind way of putting it. From the start, senior level Dyson employees were ringing alarm bells that the EV project could bring the company down. Just read some of the Glassdoor reviews.
A more fundamental issue was their urge to re-engineer every aspect of the car. They were literally trying to re-invent the wheel. This is where Tesla excels; Tesla leans heavily on Tier1 suppliers to bring in existing hardware with no radical customizations. Instead of all-out hardware superiority, Tesla also banked on software and they are 5 years ahead of even the big Auto players. Dyson EV had no chance.
Dyson does well with their premium consumer products and they are really nice to use. However, from an objective technical view, they are over engineered, over priced & not that robust (a philosophy that does not work for new EV companies). What vacuum cleaner does the local car wash use.... its a Karcher, Hoover or a Henry.
So the Cybertruck 3 motor ~$70k and Dyson $200k so total product proposition failure.
His target should have been Defender X P400 ~£100k that was easy to beat with an EV with Magna and Ineos on board?
John Dinsdale no one in the traditional car manufacturing has the knowledge to develop electric systems . That has been the biggest problem car manufacturers face. They were used to just buy components but it turns out no one knows how to build them.
@@irisfailsafe Magna do and created the jaguar ipace , Mr Dyson needs to learn humiliate and ask for help
Seems to me Dyson needs to re engineer his car. One loose weight Two settle for a less miles per battery charge Three offer a 10 year warranty. Hes then got a winner
His hoovers aren’t that good so I wouldn’t spend any money on one of his cars.
debatable
Mr Dyson be like: "We are building an electric car"
Dyson Engineers be like: "Should we tell him?
Dyson Accountants be like: "No, we'll tell him after the prototype production is complete"
Mr Dyson: "This car is expensive to make, I wish someone had told me this sooner"
Hi Rory!
I just have a question.
Couldn't James Dyson have NOT made the car so ambitious since it was going to have some cool features(like the range etc.)? Couldn't he have made the car for example a 5 seater and not want to make it have a 600 mile range? What if he didn't make the car as cool as it looks and step it down a bit so it would be more affordable and not £150,000 just to make profit of it. Also, couldn't he have made the car with another automotive company that was willing to invest in this project? Finally about the exhaust he made, couldn't he use it if he were to make a diesel SUV instead of an electric so the cost lowers? I mean he could have tried to sell it again now since going green and diesel is a problem now.
Thanks and I hope you can answer my questions!
Regards,
Alex
He could have done all of those things (dumbed it down), but that's not Dyson's style. That's why they've been so successful elsewhere. I'm not sure the exhaust filter he invented would catch on today due to the fact we now have diesel particular filters and AdBlue. -Rory Thanks Alex.
What I know is that the price of 'most' electric cars is prohibitively high for most of us. It occurred to me that if I bought a five year old Nissan Leaf costing roughly 5 grand, I could then buy a new battery from Nissan and virtually have a new car. I have read that Nissan will sell you the lastest battery they have for roughly 5 grand also. So all in all it costs somewhere close to 10 grand; that could be pounds or dollars,
Which by my reckoning is considerably cheaper than most EV's out there. And apart from anything else, who in there right mind buys a new car these days......
Serious review from the man himself
Nicely done, Again! It's refreshing to have an automotive journalist be even handed when talking about environmental concerns, and not whinge and moan about the reality that our current car tech is problematic. I could see you taking this even further, would love to see you interview Dyson about this, I think there are good stories ti be heard!
Great piece Rory 👍🏾
I've always been of the impression that dyson products are overrated , on a different note the guy who presented this video is was excellent , very informative .
Our family drives to Munich from London nearly every year! (Supply & Demand 😂)
You want to pay £150,000 for FIVE drives to Munich?
You got to be kidding me, right?! I too own 2 of his Dyson vacuum cleaners and over time found they were poorly designed and funny enough both batteries had to be replaced eventually! Thanks God he’s not designing a car let alone a EV!
Great video
I've never been convinced by anything made by Dyson
In my mind Dyson products are just too expensive for what they are and they feel like gimmicks wrapped in stylish shaped plastic
I am an early adapter. The primary reason I bought a 2014 Model S, P-85 was because of the Supercharger network Tesla was developing even back then. Today that system allows me to recharge (for free for as long my P-85 exists ... a benefit no longer available) on the Interstate system at stations no further than 150 miles apart. The reality of my Tesla being a quality, over 90% efficient, vehicle notwithstanding.
As we know that he is a major tax dodger, we can't exactly say that he sunk his personal money now, can we?
evrim Kaya There is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. All the "tax the rich" idiots fail to realise that the rich simply go elsewhere when you tax them too much, and you end up getting nothing at all.
one of the biggest farm owners in the uk.......must like farming......or is there another reason.......💰💰💰
and he used tax payers money
It's a very size efficient car. Three row wagon/crossover the size of a midsize sedan. The flat floor frees up space inside. I love they also put in minivan styled sliding doors.
He can't even make his cordless vacuums last more than 50 mins how he gonna make an EV
He surely can make them last much longer. But are you paying.
Also the Dyson air filter was terribly designed
I make $10 everytime I sell a dyson vacuum so 50 mins is a long time.
In my opinion, as an electric car owner, a 500mi range electric car would totally be welcome. Once all the range loss variables are taken into account, this would be a great number. Taking into account cold weather, higher speed driving, towing, charging to 90%, battery degradation, and charger speed and location, a 500mi theoretical range could be knocked down to a useable 300-400mi range pretty quickly. A 600mi range is probably a little overkill though (although maybe for towing).
Dyson is so admirable. He’s so passionate in what he does. Hats off to this great man even though the car project didn’t work out.
I know people and partners who worked with him that would take opposite view (ruthless control freak is one comment). Personally, I had one of his products and I hold that the company sells massively overpriced and poorly engineered, unreliable crap (or semi crap) - but with design panache and good marketing. Ulimate in PT Barnum style over any substance .
bbbf09 cool bro.
@@bbbf09 I agree. Most of these companies are built on marketing. I'm not one of his fans. He's not a serious dude. Stick to overpriced vacuum cleaners.
I'm a venture capitalist & I'm currently working on an indigenous electric vehicle in India!!! we're facing more or less the same problem as Dyson but we have found a way around it!!! the Dyson EV is a 100% viable project can be materialized in less than 24 months!!! No, I'm not kidding!!!
It might have had a 600 mile range if they got around to inventing the battery.
Great stuff. Those comments about automanufactures are spot on. The emissions lab is see as a necessary evil, an unwanted overhead.
So even after Elon showing them the way a decade ago,they cant replicate what hes done.
...at the same time creating Space X
Elon only owns 20% of Tesla. Like Tesla Dyson would need a good business plan to attract investments to challenge or do a Tesla. Dyson would need to change the mane to get investors.
@@giths19 "only"
@@giths19 He wouldn't need to "Challenge" Tesla. His goal was to challenge the other automakers and I for one am sad that he didn't have the balls to follow through. Let's keep in mind that at one point Tesla AND SpaceX were hemorrhaging money and Elon decided to go ALL IN and basically put all of his money into saving BOTH companies. His gamble has now paid off and he's worth BILLIONS because of it. Hell, if things keep going the way they've been going he could be the worlds first TRILLIONAIRE. Part of the reason for that is because people like Dyson and Apple and many others have dropped the ball with Electric cars and are leaving it all for Tesla. Oh well, more market share for Tesla to take over as the world transitions from ICE cars to Electric.
Dyson used a key phrase 'commercially viable'. Tesla has non stop had to go cap in hand to keep them afloat and has never made a year on year profit in the16 years of its operation and that's on top of any number of government subsidies.
Space X had 7 decades of rocket science to build on along side having access to; modern materials, tech and computers and STILL took 7 years longer to do something NASA did 6 decades ago.
The battery technology for cars is getting better but still needs a lot more improvement to become more popular and a more viable option
If Dyson was 30 years younger he may be the next steve jobs
He's not as rich as Jobs is he, but he's happy?
I assumed Dyson's car would be on the other end of the scale: the ultra affordable people's car - the Beetle, the Fiat 500, but electric. Ah well.
I like Rory in this format. Classy.
John Knight yes, because his vacuums, hairdryers and fans are clearly all aimed at the budget conscious...
You can't argue that Dyson's heart was in the right place.
Ah, yes you can. This was an expression of pique. He was being emotional and irrational.
No you can he was vain and irrational, the man has been a bit off in general lately. He was massively pro-Brexit but then once he got his way he moved Dysons HQ across to Singapore along with his residence.
Dyson's heart was and IS in mo money. Get a clue.
His priority should have been to make the first 200 mile range electric car for under $20 k. Leave out all the frills of a Tesla and just make a utilitarian people box that runs on magnet-juice.
That's a good idea, but doesn't work due to battery economies of scale. Unless one spent about 10 billion pounds, it's not possible to build a small EV profitably due to battery costs. Large volume battery production is needed to drive down battery costs. It's a reason Hyundai/Kia build so few EVs and why Tesla can built them at a massive gross profit: battery economies of scale.
It's all about battery costs and investing billions to lower them.
Or, smoke & mirrors that was never going to work?
Dyson - the fact that he is Britain's wealthiest person is utterly shocking
Right.
From selling expensive fragile Hoover's. Give me a Henry every time. You get ,3 of them for one Dyson. Rip off.
Rory: “surely, if anyone can make it work it’s him!”
Musk: “Hold my 🍺”
A friend was put on a Dyson ventilator in hospital. Nurse said he’s picking up nicely...
👏🏾
Did the Dyson suck 🤪 It only ran for 14 mins 😂
A almost 8 min vídeo that felt like 2 min
Great structure, kept my attention, congrats!
Dyson hand dryer yet but Hoovers no I’ve got 1 in my shed and I get back to Miele
Miele make dyson look like plastic trash
Paul Green You kind of read my mind but I didn’t want to be so cynical on Daison, 😂
We have the hand dryers in our workplace. Not very hygenic at all.
it's always good to have options and competition so that buyers/customers can gain
_Why go for a 7-seater 🤔 aren't the majority of car trips just the driver, maybe 1 passenger.._
Sometimes people tend to buy stuffs on the base of "Just in case". Just like how some of pickup truck owners buy pickup and never actually use neither the bed or the towing capability. When asked, some of them would probably say "But someday I'm probably gonna need it".
@@Arpin_Lusene Good point! I get the pick-up appeal, and some people like the styling 😀
But not many mini-vans come to mind that look good, imo.
Exactly. Each passenger is more dead weight and significantly reduced range. Put four adults in the car and the range is 50 miles, unless you use the air conditioner which is 25 mile range, and going up a steep hill knocks it down to 10 mile range. And of course the battery has lost 50% of it's charge capacity in 5 years; new batteries will set you back $15,000.
Definitely lease, don't buy. In five years technology will be 10 times better and a new car will have better range...for a much higher price
Most private car trips are for 1 person within 20 miles of home. Huge SUVs are not the answer. And any EV can do 30 miles a day.
A Brazilian dude made It out of a wash machine's engine and gel batteries, sometimes peopple doesn't matter How smart they are, they try to reinvent the Wheel.
I couldn't afford to buy one but I would love to own one. I'd pick that over a Tesla anyday. I know I am going to aggravate all you Tesla fanboys, but I think Tesla is overrated. There. I said it
And why is it overrated?
@@kakerake6018 Watch some of Rich Rebuilds videos too see how p*ss poor their customer service is, their impressions on right to repair, their impressions on disabling features over the air because they say so and just how poor some of the build quality on their vehicles is and that's before you engage with the self righteous tw*ts that are part of the cult of Musk, indoctrinated in to his cabal by their ownership of one of the vehicles.
@@L8ugh1ngm8n1 Tesla is mostly followed like a cult due to the company and Musk having an inhumane drive to change the world and do it with software at the core. I would have bought my Telsa even if it had no doors let alone give a damn about customer support or build quality. May I add besides the doors having a terrible noise while closing them I find the Model 3 has a great quality overall.
You are correct Rory, the real test is demand. All the car companies research their public needs.just sitting back and dreaming of a 2 1/2 ton 7 seater vehicle is crazy. where's the market for such a machine? Car companies need and rely on volume. So Dyson should have cut his cloth to suit the market. Trouble is, as you rightly pointed out, the big boys had done their research and realised they could not do it on their own. Billions were needed, Dyson was out a country mile.The writing was on the wall before electric cars were even thought of. Just look how many car companies have died or amalgamated .
Narrator: "If anyone can make it work, it's him surely."
Elon Musk: I beg to differ
@@AzathothsAlarmClock $465M, which they paid back with interest.
I can see an opportunity here. We have a state of the art car factory in Swindon ( the now defuct Honda plant), only 20 miles from Dysons HQ. We have unemployed engineers and technicians who could go back to work. The government should offer to fund the rest of the project, and Dyson could agree a deal, that if it makes money, they'll pay it back. He could scale down the design to a 5 seater with a 400 mile range and probably match Tesla. Then from this scale it down even further a 4 seater with a 200 mile range for sub 30k and he's got a winner. To have these two assets so close together and mothball both of them seems crazy to me!
With his level of innovation, a car (even with his name) was an exciting prospect. But yeah, probably too ambitious. Despite the popularity of SUV's (questionable), maybe his efforts should have gone more towards reinventing the sedan. (ie Jaguar I Pace). SUV's I feel are over played. Yeah you have a more commanding view of the road. But if everyone is in a SUV, you're back to where you started. Also, with European roads, a SUV is overkill.
Agree, but Jaguar iPace is a SUV.
Great piece of journalism Rory. Never know about the Dyson exhaust.
Dyson killed his EV project when he realised he doesn't have any of the expertise to make one. Also, Dyson products are worthless: they dont work well and die young. We owned two of his expensive vacuum cleaners and none cleaned well but both broke in a short time. Our Miele vacuum cleaner is 6 years old and still looks and acts new. And it was cheaper than a Dyson, strangely. I think Dysons are for morons.
I've have 2 dysons one a dc14 since 2007 bought from Curry's half price still working perfectly all parts are available on e-bay very cheap. Some people throw them away I usually end up fixing there old Dyson for £7 in parts. The whole thing comes apart like a kit with hardly any tool. If the car was as well made as his vacuum cleaner they were probably worth £150k especially if they lasted 20+ years
Rory is a superb communicator, he was wasted on TG. No one needs 600 mile range so as he said it was a pointless exercise. My first EV is an MG ZS EV, Low cost , high spec and enough range for me 90% of the time, when it isn’t I will plan journeys carefully. Of course I would not turn down an ipace or Tesla X but I dont need them.
Dyson knows how to make money. He wants to make profit like the profit he makes on vacuum cleaners. Tesla are losing billions and not going to go to real profit ever. If he is saying that he needs to sell a car for $180000 so this is the price Tesla needs to sell the model 3
Tesla has driven down costs, rolling profits into aggressive expansion on three continents. They're in debt, but so are their competitors.
Dyson should make some type of air purifier for big cities
IntenseNetwork Aren’t thèse already called trees?
This is basically a regurgetation of the CAR manazine story from about 2 months ago. They even show the pictures and pages in absence of any direct contact with James Dyson. Let's put it down to working limitations due to Covid as you are usually much better on it than this.
In terms of cost Dyson is right that he won't make money. Tesla almost never have and the mainstream car manufacturers are struggling to make viable cost effective alternatives for consumers. For VW, Ford etc. think of it like this - cost of an EV = the ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle plus/minus about $12k. Growing numbers of customers are interested in EVs but until Total Cost of Ownership (through govt incentives and economies of scale) is at or close to parity to ICE then low take up and residual values will hold us all back from mass adoption.
Competing in the car industry is in itself an extremely tough job, and competing in it as a complete newcomer offering electric cars exclusively, against companies with many decades of experience behind them, AND WHO ARE BEING AWARDED HUGE SUBSIDIES TO DEVELOP e-CARS is practically mission impossible. So even Dyson failed in this quest. I am aware that electric cars are a technological challenge, but basically the motorisation must be simpler than that of a car which uses a combustion engine, so what is the big deal with the development costs ? Dacia has announced the launch of an electric car for next year, starting at around €11000, so if Dacia can do it, why did Dyson fail ??? I believe that the whole thing collapsed because Dyson wanted to show the world that he can do not only things that the car industry can do, but that he can do them much better ! If the concept had been a medium-sized car with an acceptable range, without all the gimmicks, then I believe that Dyson could have been successful in the car industry, too. 🤷🏼♂️
and that's why Tesla is so far ahead of the rest. Dyson arrived 10 years too late
nonsense this man is already really rich he doesnt need to make EVs and many other companies are making EVs too
Mr James Dyson is a smart man. He knows the difference between passion for electric cars and reality. I believe he can build the electric car with another major car manufacturer if he wanted. Looks like he wanna spend more time with his family.
My Triumph bike had a range of about 130 miles and it never stopped me going anywhere. Because refuelling was quick and easy. No reason why electric cars can't be the same.
Save costs by making a modest electric car with a 200 mile range and top speed of 100mph.
Spend some of that half a billion quid on infrastructure, like Tesla did, and improving charge rates.
I'm sure the process of refuelling a Ford Model T in 1908 wasn't as effortless as filling a modern car today. Things will improve.
Always dismissed the idea of a car made by a "vacuum cleaner company" but hearing more about the man himself i must say i really reapect his approach and ingenuity. Really informative vid btw👌
Cars (yes the internal combustion engine ones) made the modern city possible - they saved them from the tons of horse manure that previously filled city streets.
wow a car that cleans itself and sweeps the streets want 1