The best part about seven is that they don't really show the violence or gore but yet make it feel so disturbing and a lot more haunting than any other movie
That's how I felt with the death for "lust". They didn't show anything startling per say, but it was just the emotion from the guy with that horrible strap on that really got under my skin. I still remember it to this day and I've only seen the movie twice.
Nothing they'd show would be as horrifying as what our minds can think up at this point in the movie. I find it really genius that the movie started with showing the gore with the first few kills just enough to put the viewer in the proper mindset and then dials it down to make space for the mind to do its work. The Lust guy helps it but the kicker is the polaroid of the tool that he was forced to use - this is what kicks the imagination into overdrive.
@Persephone Black I was going to say the same thing about Lust! If anything it makes the horror more acute as the realization of what actually took place slowly sinks in. Brrrrrr! I get shivers just thinking about it! :/
This is the ultimate way to make a movie. This is what horror movies used to be like, and I miss them Soooo much. There was a time when they weren't all just blood guts and gore.... But when the story itself and what not, is enough to freak you out. Hasn't been one like that for a long time.
He did a similar thing in the CUBE video, where he was talking about Joseph Campbells "Hero with many faces" as while he played a clip from the movie where a dude gets his face melted off or some shit.
@Alexander Supertramp what if the head in the box is fake and he did not kill his wife or its someone else's head....no one ever thinks that maybe he was bluffing to get mills to snap?
@KeoneArt thriller is a sub genre of horror. As Vincent price said "The foulest stench is in the air The funk of forty thousand years And grisly ghouls from every tomb Are closing in to seal your doom And though you fight to stay alive Your body starts to shiver For no mere mortal can resist The evil of the thriller"
Sloth and Lusts reaction are forever engraved into my brain. I can still close my eyes and see those poor fucks. What a classic grim and macabre piece of cinema. Your videos are always a treat Ryan.
The atmosphere in Se7en is nauseating - so grimy, bleak and dirty you feel like the flies are buzzing around you constantly. Alan Parker's Angel Heart is one of few equals I can think of.
Well spotted. One of the first things I noticed when watching Angel Heart was how it’s lurid, grimy production design and cinematography so closely resembled Se7en. Good to know I wasn’t the only one.
However, unlike Angel Heart, Se7en is better written and you see (not hear) how Se7en's universe is put together. In Angel Heart, the story is told (not really seen and felt). You hear about the story of how they got the body more like heresy, which isn't really horrific or scary . In Se7en you get the visual of the story, which makes the story grim and horrific. You're also able to feel the atmosphere...which is why I love this story more than I do Angel Heart.
I would argue with your characterizations of Somerset and Mills respectively, as well as John Doe. Somerset's intrigued and almost reverent attitude towards John Doe reflects his own jaded cynicism about the world, which is the crux of his character arc. He starts off ready to give up and move out to the country, convinced the city is so irredeemably rotten and evil that he can't do any good anymore - this is a reflection of John Doe's similarly pessimistic perspective, in that he commits the murders out of a sense of disgust. This contrasts with Mills' energized, somewhat naive perspective that he wants to do as much good as possible in the worst place he can find. He and Somerset have a conversation in a bar where Mills challenges Somerset's decision to give up and abandon the good fight, and it resonates enough to make Somerset throw his ticky clock later. The final sequence is a battle for Somerset's soul between Doe and Mills, particularly the conversation between Doe and Mills in the car - Somerset silently hears Doe giving a voice to his own internalized repulsion at the sheer magnitude of human folly and evil in the world, while Mills' platitudes and arguments seem to ring hollow. But when it's all said and done, after Doe has destroyed Mills and butchered his family, Somerset can no longer deny the toxicity of that voice after seeing such a personal human fallout. The ending sees him finally snapping out of his apathy, realizing that such unmitigated pessimism and hatred is just another permutation of evil in the world, and accepting his personal responsibility to continue fighting it.
In truth there's no other outcome that Mills as a character could have chosen. If we're to believe in the realism of Se7en's narrative then Doe would be out on the street if he had lived. It's a paradox. It's an unwinnable game and Mills chose the only option satisfactory to him which was to kill Doe for his evil actions and not allow him a soapbox to spout his sickness upon copycats and others of ill intent. Yes, there would be more Does and more death, Mills will not get a happy ending but Somerset's understanding and reasoning, just as the authority figures in A Clockwork Orange, are inherently flawed because they believe understanding and change of even the most sick is paramount over past actions. The naivety of understanding to the most heinous is the downfall of good intentions, to allow goodwill and release at the behest of time served to those who damage so brutally is the downfall of justice and the furthering of public unrest. In short to remove and make things less personal only allows more pain, but of course there's argument on the contrary but that is the complexity of the complete narrative of Se7en, you can try to comb it and you'll still come up with an mirroring counter-equation.
humanity maybe a paradoxical idiot in a nutshell but this is a rather well done character arc and moment. @@RyanHollinger all 3 of them are just slight different aspects of humanity itself form the cynical giving up on the whole of it. to the Justice nativity finally to the broken aspects of pessimism. its an interesting trifecta to focus on.
Hello, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your views on "Seven". I love this film. I watch it every time it's on TV, providing there are few, if no commercials. David Fincher is such a genius. His films and the fire they put under me...it's like taking a class, if I like a film. I just want to know everything about everything. Thanks again for putting your excellent brain to my favorite film!
The "lust" murder always makes me ill. I only saw the movie twice because of it. I consider this a very well executed psychological horror movie. I watch horror movies constantly and very few have actually every made me uncomfortable.
Persephone Black I actually couldn’t remember what happened to the lust victim. It’s been a while since I’ve seen this movie, so I couldn’t remember. I looked it up and now I also feel ill. This movie is both messed up beyond belief and also amazing.
My mom died last month, my uncle the month before, another uncle this month, on my birthday, no less. I was supposed to go see Guster in New Orleans this weekend, but my ride bailed and I'm out 120.00 for the tickets. I'm in a world of misery. In all of this, you upload a new video, and for eleven minutes and twenty-two seconds, I'm happy. I am at peace. I just wanted to say all of that, to let you know that you and your videos mean a lot to me and so many others. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you, Ryan Hollinger.
I'm so very sorry for all the loss you are suffering. I hope these videos, and other things that bring you joy and peace, will sustain you until things get easier. Please take care of yourself in the best way you know how.
Ryan Hollinger my fiancé hates this movie because of this box. Not the gore, not the violence, not the philosophy, just what is in that box and of course is scared that it will happen to me. I still enjoyed the video though
@@RyanHollinger Oh Gawwwd Ryan! WHATS IN THE BOX MAN?!?! WHATS IN THE BOX? oh lorrrddd. Also, most people don't actually even count the sins, or notice what it actually is, and think that Envy is the final sin that Kevin Spacey's character, John Doe does.... But it's actually wrath, that Brad Pitt carries out. I'm super glad that you actually picked up on that. So many people don't. Hell, the first time I watched it I didn't realize it until the following day. Lol
@@homegrowntwinkie Interesting too because punishment for sin in the middle ages wasn't always death or direct punishment to individual...It could be taking things away or even killing their family...So John Doe followed suit by taking something from Mills (has wife + unborn child) and allowing his weather to flourish as a double whammy for Envy and Wrath.
My wife and I saw this a hundred years ago in the theater. We still “fight” about what Mills should have done in the end. Now one of our kids agrees with me and the other with her so the family is still split.
Wether I agree or not I can't blame him for doing it. It would be hard not to do when you got a gun on you and the evil right there. I probably woulda done the same really.
contains spoilers: the thing with anger is that you can't always control it. I myself always need to distance myself from the thing that has made me angry before I can make objective decisions. Otherwise I am not capable of it. And Mills was in a Situation where he just couldn't distance himself. I mean how? He lost his wife and his unborn child and was confronted in the worst ever situation. The anger got the best of him and he shot John Doe. I can totaly understand why he did it.
Worst part about ”sloth” isn’t the gruesome imagery of a barely living human, it’s the fact that I can see the actors arm lying ”hidden” next to the body giving him 3 arms, and it can’t be unseen. But the first time I saw it I was traumatized.
Before seeing it in the theaters in '96 a friend of mine that had seen it first tried to warn me without giving the ending away. I was still horrified but she'd at least warned me of the sloth scene and told me when I see the Christmas tree air fresheners to steel myself. To this day I can not look at those damn things without thinking of this movie.
That scene with the seemingly dead strapped down guy coughs into life is incredible. I watched SE7EN at the cinema, and nigh on the whole audience collectively crapped themselves at that bit haha!!! Possibly the best thriller of all time!!!
i like how he can look past the surface level of a movie while watching it and see it for what it really is aka a thematic narrative...too many people focus on non important stuff when watching a film like looking at the film books show generic characters as more than just ideal vessels which is their usual purpose like in the film to move plot..they don't actually usually matter that much.what they represent from the writing side does..its better to look at characters as numbers and ideals more than people you know...its how you transcend your movie experience
Analyzing Male Slavery motnyet but it was a big open secret in Hollywood for a long time. He will most likely not get in much trouble or any trouble at all. I’m sure every one of his victims won’t have a trial. But oj got away with murder and so do plenty of people.
Analyzing Male Slavery it’s not proof homie. I’m saying it’s more likely to be true when there are hella rumors about it already and they have lasted for years. Did I say to throw him in jail? No dude. You must feel real bad ass acting hella aggressively to everyone hahaha. You’re acting like he’s your uncle or some shit, love the fake outrage. Who’s the real mental case here? Hmm.
I think that the most brutal part of John's psycopathy, is when Kevin Spacey broke the script when the reveal that David Mills was going to be a father happened, he was supposed to say "Oh you didnt know" while talking to Mills, but he turned to SUMMERSET. and said to HIM ''oh.... he didnt know" just... incredible
I couldn't believe how Doe was so smug and gleeful to have added so much more unexpected pain to Mills... the EVIL of it was overwhelming! Can you imagine getting joy out of utterly ripping someone's world apart!?? I know there are truly people that evil but I just can't imagine HOW! I almost cry just for accidentally hurting someone's feelings.
I still remember being physically affected by the ending. My heart rate rose at the point where Pitts character comes to the realization of what's in the box.
Fincher is one of those very few directors that make films that are not only unsettling in a stylish way but become so well embedded in your psyche that you _never_ forget both small details and the overall film, demanding repeated views.
10:24 I see that Game Grumps shirt behind you. I already respected you a ton before but now it's on a whole new level. Keep doing what you're doing bud, we all love it.
Fight Club might be my favorite Fincher movie, but this is one of very few movies that makes me feel anxious and tense everytime I watch it. Perfection
John Doe made Lechter look like an amateur boy scout.Se7en is a better horror movie than 99% of horror movies. Some of the stuff was over the top, but all technically possible. Sloth is the best jump scare I've ever seen(saw it opening weekend, packed theater and when he sat up the entire room went crazy) For me, lust was the worst, the idea of the guy forced at gunpoint to tear that girl to death...brutal.
Se7en is one of my favorite films, and I'm so glad you're taking a look at it! The way it was filmed gives it a timeless feel, like, if you watched it today you wouldn't be able to tell it was made in 1995, aside from the outdated computers present in the film. But David Fincher really nailed the tone and feel of the film, and the first time I watched it the ending had me blindsided. But the little clues you pick up on repeat viewings enhances the experience.
My dad wont watch this movie again because of Sloth. He said its one of the only moments that terrified him in a movie, and he cannot forget the haunting nature of that scene.
as i watched seven and i eventually got gist of the deaths and expected to see death/gore in a macabre way, my eyes were still unprepared as each death came forth, but yet it was so hard to look away. (love the weekly vids, always look forward to watching!)
Also cool how after we feel like we’re prepared to look at the next grisly image, the next kill (lust) makes us imagine how the body looked like, all in our heads. David Fincher you sick fuck.
I like that they didn’t show the acts being done... We’re with the Detectives in the story. We assessed the situation just as the Detectives did, by looking around and thinking. Probably my favorite movie of all time, and if not, it’s absolutely in my top three
Ryan, I am always so amazed at your writing in these essays, everything is so well said and structured! You must have had a really good Grade in English class
I have mixed feelings about this video. On the one hand there are some fascinating fragmentary insights about the film. On the other hand, I cannot figure out what this essay is actually trying to argue. I'm sorry, but the argument, if there is one, is buried beneath too many sentences with peculiar syntax and lots of vague, airy abstractions. But hey, I'm a dummy and probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Could someone please summarize the argument for me in a sentence or two?
I tend to agree. I like Ryan, he seems to love his craft with a passion. but in this video particularly he broached a subject that maybe cant be argued effectively in 11 minutes, leading to a more fragmented analysis than it should have been.
I ADORE this movie. It was my favorite when I was young, and influenced my writing to a massive degree. That sense 'f "this feels real, even though it's unbelievable" is something I try my hardest to use in the atmosphere of my own fictional worlds. It's so mystifying, and creepy. Yet not overwhelming and depressing as most "realism" seems to be.
Se7en is the only film that has ever truley terrified me. Sloth and lust specifically cost me about two weeks of sleep. I've only been able to watch it one time. It's an incredible film, but i don't know if I can ever watch it again.
you should watch "i saw the devil" and please watch the korean movie by that name as its a vastly different film from the american one (different script. just same title) its about a man losing his family in a car crash and he decides to take revenge on the person who did this thats all im gonna say
One of the worst korean movies I have ever seen, try writing in paper the acts and you will see how stupid it is. Filled with "revenge porn", pretty girls getting killed and raped with angles made to show the scene as sexy even with the one who is a kid. The cop is an idiot, the movie too long, if you are smart enough the end can be guess after an hour. Try The revenge trilogy.
@@PalitoSelvatico Or Bedeviled. It's one of those times when rooting for the revengeful party is entirely legit and it's played with the hopelessness the entire situation requires.
I just watched seven for the first time after being aware of it for years. I knew about the 'whats in the box' bit and for some reason I'd always thought it was like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, and you never found out what was in it. So leading up to the ending I was a bit disappointed, thinking to myself it'd be so much better if we actually found out what was in there. God I was satisfied.
One of my five most fave movies of all time. Brilliantly acted. Brilliantly written. Kevin Spacey was both insane and a genius at the same time. Pitt had some classic lines. And Morgan Freeman was his usual awesome self!!!!
SE7EN is a movie that I absolutely love, but only rewatch sparingly, because I want to let myself forget as much of it as possible for my next rewatch. The fact that it plays so well with realism and surrealism just makes those horror moments truly horrific.
Always great videos dude. Really loved this one though, SE7EN is one of my all time favorite movies. The performances are amazing, the cinematogrpahy is perfect, the writing, all of it. Just an exceptional movie and your breakdown of it was just as good. Keep creating dude, always look forward to your uploads.
I love listening to Ryan Hollinger talking about horror movies! I consider myself a smart person but some of the stuff he says is on another level. I honestly can't get enough of his movie breakdowns! Keep up the great work bro,was so happy you finally did one of my favorites last week 'The Ruins!'
Try thinking outside the box... while others have their heads stay inside the box, quite literally ;) Love your videos Ryan, especially your choice of movies (thank you for making me watch some I did not see yet, "Ghost Stories" e.g.)
What I love about the film is you never know what city it takes place in, the weather which is constantly dull and raining changes to a sunny day in a sand environment juxtaposes the climax of the film
Thank you for the fantastic analysis Ryan. Since you delved into the thematic complexities of the film, I’ll just extol the virtues of the film from an aesthetic standpoint. There are few 90’s films that have visually aged as gracefully as Seven. Maybe I can chalk that up to the fact that the film is set in an undisclosed year and city. If it weren’t for the scenes that were shot in the Bradbury building, I’d be hard pressed to tell it was Los Angeles. The opening title sequence alone sparked countless imitators and for good reason. Had someone else helmed this film, it could’ve very well have been a run of the mill police procedural. However, in Fincher’s hands it’s just cinematic gold.
A wonderful analysis like always!! I also couldn't help but compare Somerset and Will Graham from the Hannibal series, as they are both criticized and ridiculed for approaching serial killer logic not as ridiculous, but with the same value as any other point of view. Can't wait to see what other horror genres you analyze!! Keep it up!!
I recently started binging your channel. i love horror movies so much and your discussion really have me looking that them in a new and interesting way. you've talked about 'it follows' a couple times, but i don't see a full video on it. it is honestly one of my all time favorite underrated horror movies. i would love to see you do a full piece on it.
SE7EN is my favourite Fincher film (followed by Fight Club) and my all-time favourite film. Panic Room is so underrated and largely forgotten about, sadly. Zodiac and Gone Girl are excellent, and I make no apologies for still loving Alien 3 and it's wonderful bleakness. I just saw The Killer and loved it, and The Game is unappreciated as well. His other works are lower down the pole than the ones I have mentioned for me, but are still great, including his TV work. I still haven't seen Mank though. Excellent video, much appreciated.
When I first saw Seven at the movies, at a very dangerous movie theater in New York City's Time Square, I had originally had this thought that John Doe played by Kevin Spacy, was not a psychopath, but an angel testing Brad Pitts characters sanity, and his threshold to sin. John Doe was a Lovecraftian existential angel to show us what we become in a mad world, Summerset passed that test years ago, and Brad Pitts flawed character was now taking the test, his cynicism along with bits of wanting to believe brought him down to the slippery slope of existentialism, and self-realization, and madness, yes The Lovecraftian angel. Like a moral version of singularity when getting sucked down a black hole!
@@khartog01 was just a symbolism in itself, the way he holds his hands open with the bloody shirt in the bloody hands, or you could just see you as another victim of lovecraftian Terror that just passes it on
Se7en introduced me to the world of David Fincher. Watched it when I was a kid, thank you awesome film obsessed family, and I still adore it. But OMFG I had no idea about Dr Coxs!!!! Know this film almost line for line and had no idea!!
Another great movie choice, Ryan. You keep making these videos and I'll keep watching them. Gone Girl is my favorite Fincher movie by far. BTW the glasses work for you, Buddy.
Have you seen Mindhunter on Netflix? Fincher is a producer and directs several episodes. I am in my second watch through of S. 1 and am loving it. So, so good.
Your point of us as an audience accepting those gruesome and dark themes to be our reality and what life and the world is really resonates with me on so many levels, I mean it seems to be a good thing to be stressed out, depressed and burnt out nowadays, almost as if this is what gives our life true value. I wonder why that is? On the other hand you have polished Instagram accounts that are said to be pretended happiness and 'fake'. What a bizarre state we are in as a society. Anyone with me?
In my opinion, Se7en is fincher's best directed movie, especially visually. I'm not sure who the cinematographer is, but I think Se7en is a masterclass in how the visual style and feel of a movie can not only enhance, but go beyond even the dialogue and acting, to convey a sense of despair, dread, and doom. It's a reflection that truly is I here t in late capitalism.... Nothing to live for, nothing to die for.
I absolutely love the atmosphere, my only gripe is that I wish it was a little lighter, as in physically, I watched this in a pitch black room with my brightness at 100 and it was just hard to see
Tbh I identified with Somerset WAY more than Mills. Somerset was an albeit jaded professional who claimed to be apathetic but clearly cared for people through the painstaking labor he put into solving cases. Mills, however, felt like a petulant teenager throwing tantrums everytime he was asked to do a little more work than he was expected to do or anytime his ego was challenged. He claimed to care, but then only threw around slurs and screamed at people whenever he got the chance
I always felt it was about urban and moral decay in our modern age. Which at the time it was in theaters was the mid 90s when NYC wasn't remotely cleaned up yet and the memories of Grimy cities were still fresh in most minds.
As far as I know(watched it a couple weeks ago) he actually was pardoned, due to it being a crime of passion/heat of the moment type deal, and it's slightly more apparent when Morgan Freeman tells the guys hauling off Brad Pitt to "take good care of him" so I believe that he's actually pardoned, but fired from being a cop, and receives treatment for psychological reasons(obviously)
Yeah, no jury convicts him. DA wouldn’t push for “death row all the way”. Far from a happy ending (probably spends rest of his life in a psych ward) or pops himself.
*Favourite DAVID FINCHER movie??? GO!* I wanna see some love for Panic Room!
It'll have to be Se7en. It is my favorite movie of all time. I might watch Panic Room sometime later.
Gone Girl is the best and my most favourite Fincher film but Alien 3 is still a great film with a perfect script.
@@Silhouetters Se7en is best David Fincher film.
For different reasons Fight Club, Zodiac ant The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
David fincher is a god
The best part about seven is that they don't really show the violence or gore but yet make it feel so disturbing and a lot more haunting than any other movie
That's how I felt with the death for "lust". They didn't show anything startling per say, but it was just the emotion from the guy with that horrible strap on that really got under my skin. I still remember it to this day and I've only seen the movie twice.
Nothing they'd show would be as horrifying as what our minds can think up at this point in the movie. I find it really genius that the movie started with showing the gore with the first few kills just enough to put the viewer in the proper mindset and then dials it down to make space for the mind to do its work.
The Lust guy helps it but the kicker is the polaroid of the tool that he was forced to use - this is what kicks the imagination into overdrive.
@Persephone Black I was going to say the same thing about Lust! If anything it makes the horror more acute as the realization of what actually took place slowly sinks in. Brrrrrr! I get shivers just thinking about it! :/
@Tayyab Hussain yeah just like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (from the 70s). It’s not a gory movie, but it feels gory.
This is the ultimate way to make a movie. This is what horror movies used to be like, and I miss them Soooo much. There was a time when they weren't all just blood guts and gore.... But when the story itself and what not, is enough to freak you out. Hasn't been one like that for a long time.
The true brutal realism in this video was the reality that Ryan made this whole video while waiting for his PS4 to finish a download
Those download speeds be better killers than Jason, Michael, and Freddy combined
" '... the world is a good place and worth fighting for.'
I agree with the second part."
That ending line always stuck with me.
Lee Kalba Same. It’s become a life mantra
Me Too Fam!!!!
Bingo.
“Think outside the box”
I see what you did there, you sick, sick man...I love it!
I was nearing the end of the video and as I read your comment, I heard him say it in the video. Always freaks me out when that happens.
WHAT IN THE BOX's
He did a similar thing in the CUBE video, where he was talking about Joseph Campbells "Hero with many faces" as while he played a clip from the movie where a dude gets his face melted off or some shit.
@Alexander Supertramp what if the head in the box is fake and he did not kill his wife or its someone else's head....no one ever thinks that maybe he was bluffing to get mills to snap?
@@big-loss_9043 he just told you
This movie is a masterpiece in psychological horror. To me I don’t see any faults in what the film is trying to be.
KeoneArt well yes it is mostly a thriller. but i do think that it does have a lot of horror elements
@KeoneArt thriller is a sub genre of horror. As Vincent price said "The foulest stench is in the air
The funk of forty thousand years
And grisly ghouls from every tomb
Are closing in to seal your doom
And though you fight to stay alive
Your body starts to shiver
For no mere mortal can resist
The evil of the thriller"
Jimbo Goat I absolutely agree, it’s a near flawless film and probably my favourite crime thriller of all time
I had seen million of Horror movies in my life, yet not alot moments disturbed me and left me uneasy the way as the Sloth victim scene from Se7en...
David Fincher said if he could remake Seven today, he'd do it differently, so maybe there is room for improvement
Sloth and Lusts reaction are forever engraved into my brain. I can still close my eyes and see those poor fucks. What a classic grim and macabre piece of cinema. Your videos are always a treat Ryan.
@The Big Bad White Man Me too.
Wrath and envy combined takes the cake for me
Saying poor fucks while mentioning lust is kinda disturbing..
For me it was Sloth and Gluttony..
SLOTH for me with lust coming in almost the same only because the sloth one lasted a year. But getting raped with a knife....😳
The atmosphere in Se7en is nauseating - so grimy, bleak and dirty you feel like the flies are buzzing around you constantly. Alan Parker's Angel Heart is one of few equals I can think of.
I felt like I needed a shower when I came out of the theater after seeing Se7en. A shower and some counseling.
Well spotted. One of the first things I noticed when watching Angel Heart was how it’s lurid, grimy production design and cinematography so closely resembled Se7en. Good to know I wasn’t the only one.
I got that sensation from Jacob's Ladder also, but it feels like the flies are buzzing around _inside_ you.
I love Angel Heart. One of my all time favourite films.
I know who i am.
However, unlike Angel Heart, Se7en is better written and you see (not hear) how Se7en's universe is put together. In Angel Heart, the story is told (not really seen and felt). You hear about the story of how they got the body more like heresy, which isn't really horrific or scary . In Se7en you get the visual of the story, which makes the story grim and horrific. You're also able to feel the atmosphere...which is why I love this story more than I do Angel Heart.
I would argue with your characterizations of Somerset and Mills respectively, as well as John Doe. Somerset's intrigued and almost reverent attitude towards John Doe reflects his own jaded cynicism about the world, which is the crux of his character arc. He starts off ready to give up and move out to the country, convinced the city is so irredeemably rotten and evil that he can't do any good anymore - this is a reflection of John Doe's similarly pessimistic perspective, in that he commits the murders out of a sense of disgust. This contrasts with Mills' energized, somewhat naive perspective that he wants to do as much good as possible in the worst place he can find. He and Somerset have a conversation in a bar where Mills challenges Somerset's decision to give up and abandon the good fight, and it resonates enough to make Somerset throw his ticky clock later. The final sequence is a battle for Somerset's soul between Doe and Mills, particularly the conversation between Doe and Mills in the car - Somerset silently hears Doe giving a voice to his own internalized repulsion at the sheer magnitude of human folly and evil in the world, while Mills' platitudes and arguments seem to ring hollow. But when it's all said and done, after Doe has destroyed Mills and butchered his family, Somerset can no longer deny the toxicity of that voice after seeing such a personal human fallout. The ending sees him finally snapping out of his apathy, realizing that such unmitigated pessimism and hatred is just another permutation of evil in the world, and accepting his personal responsibility to continue fighting it.
Absolutely! Totally a perspective I can get behind, but through time I’ve come to reinterpret my feelings towards both of them.
Y-you too...
In truth there's no other outcome that Mills as a character could have chosen. If we're to believe in the realism of Se7en's narrative then Doe would be out on the street if he had lived. It's a paradox. It's an unwinnable game and Mills chose the only option satisfactory to him which was to kill Doe for his evil actions and not allow him a soapbox to spout his sickness upon copycats and others of ill intent. Yes, there would be more Does and more death, Mills will not get a happy ending but Somerset's understanding and reasoning, just as the authority figures in A Clockwork Orange, are inherently flawed because they believe understanding and change of even the most sick is paramount over past actions. The naivety of understanding to the most heinous is the downfall of good intentions, to allow goodwill and release at the behest of time served to those who damage so brutally is the downfall of justice and the furthering of public unrest. In short to remove and make things less personal only allows more pain, but of course there's argument on the contrary but that is the complexity of the complete narrative of Se7en, you can try to comb it and you'll still come up with an mirroring counter-equation.
humanity maybe a paradoxical idiot in a nutshell but this is a rather well done character arc and moment. @@RyanHollinger all 3 of them are just slight different aspects of humanity itself form the cynical giving up on the whole of it. to the Justice nativity finally to the broken aspects of pessimism. its an interesting trifecta to focus on.
Hello, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your views on "Seven". I love this film. I watch it every time it's on TV, providing there are few, if no commercials. David Fincher is such a genius. His films and the fire they put under me...it's like taking a class, if I like a film. I just want to know everything about everything. Thanks again for putting your excellent brain to my favorite film!
The "lust" murder always makes me ill. I only saw the movie twice because of it. I consider this a very well executed psychological horror movie. I watch horror movies constantly and very few have actually every made me uncomfortable.
Persephone Black I actually couldn’t remember what happened to the lust victim. It’s been a while since I’ve seen this movie, so I couldn’t remember. I looked it up and now I also feel ill. This movie is both messed up beyond belief and also amazing.
@@coreyhand3138 he forced to have an intercourse with an escort with a chastity that had blades and shit
@@aryasenaputra3226 wait so blades and shit went into his dick?
jin adachi no the opposite
@@lunebadru5997 i mean probably? But he sure as hell fucked her with blades and shit
My mom died last month, my uncle the month before, another uncle this month, on my birthday, no less. I was supposed to go see Guster in New Orleans this weekend, but my ride bailed and I'm out 120.00 for the tickets. I'm in a world of misery.
In all of this, you upload a new video, and for eleven minutes and twenty-two seconds, I'm happy. I am at peace. I just wanted to say all of that, to let you know that you and your videos mean a lot to me and so many others. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you, Ryan Hollinger.
You have my sympathy. I hope things start looking up for you in the near future.
Word Unheard You’re strong. You’ll find peace soon
I'm so very sorry for all the loss you are suffering. I hope these videos, and other things that bring you joy and peace, will sustain you until things get easier. Please take care of yourself in the best way you know how.
Much love to you my friend
@@kateroche5852
Thank you. That means a lot to me. I did get to see that concert on March 30th, so SOMETHING went right this month.
When you said "outside the box", you showed a shot of a box from the movie. 🤨
You saw what I did there
Ryan Hollinger my fiancé hates this movie because of this box. Not the gore, not the violence, not the philosophy, just what is in that box and of course is scared that it will happen to me. I still enjoyed the video though
@@RyanHollinger Oh Gawwwd Ryan! WHATS IN THE BOX MAN?!?! WHATS IN THE BOX? oh lorrrddd.
Also, most people don't actually even count the sins, or notice what it actually is, and think that Envy is the final sin that Kevin Spacey's character, John Doe does.... But it's actually wrath, that Brad Pitt carries out. I'm super glad that you actually picked up on that. So many people don't. Hell, the first time I watched it I didn't realize it until the following day. Lol
@@homegrowntwinkie Interesting too because punishment for sin in the middle ages wasn't always death or direct punishment to individual...It could be taking things away or even killing their family...So John Doe followed suit by taking something from Mills (has wife + unborn child) and allowing his weather to flourish as a double whammy for Envy and Wrath.
My wife and I saw this a hundred years ago in the theater. We still “fight” about what Mills should have done in the end.
Now one of our kids agrees with me and the other with her so the family is still split.
Wether I agree or not I can't blame him for doing it. It would be hard not to do when you got a gun on you and the evil right there. I probably woulda done the same really.
contains spoilers:
the thing with anger is that you can't always control it. I myself always need to distance myself from the thing that has made me angry before I can make objective decisions. Otherwise I am not capable of it. And Mills was in a Situation where he just couldn't distance himself. I mean how? He lost his wife and his unborn child and was confronted in the worst ever situation. The anger got the best of him and he shot John Doe. I can totaly understand why he did it.
No idea what I would do in the situation, but as a viewer, I thought it was really dumb of him.
...
How old are your kids!?
If i was Mills i would shoot him, not in the head but in the hand so he can feel pain and that his plan fails
Worst part about ”sloth” isn’t the gruesome imagery of a barely living human, it’s the fact that I can see the actors arm lying ”hidden” next to the body giving him 3 arms, and it can’t be unseen.
But the first time I saw it I was traumatized.
after finishing Se7en for the first time I just stared blankly and said: "I was not prepared for this."
DarkWolfSVK yup. It’s pretty fkd up. One of my favs tho.
No one is.
I was and I still walked away... honestly I don't have the words for it
Before seeing it in the theaters in '96 a friend of mine that had seen it first tried to warn me without giving the ending away. I was still horrified but she'd at least warned me of the sloth scene and told me when I see the Christmas tree air fresheners to steel myself. To this day I can not look at those damn things without thinking of this movie.
That scene with the seemingly dead strapped down guy coughs into life is incredible. I watched SE7EN at the cinema, and nigh on the whole audience collectively crapped themselves at that bit haha!!! Possibly the best thriller of all time!!!
IKR!? Lol
I love the fact your looking at all different aspects of the horror genre, keep up the good work my man!
conn1239 Ryan’s a bad ass. I love this channel, but has he done Martyrs yet?
i like how he can look past the surface level of a movie while watching it and see it for what it really is aka a thematic narrative...too many people focus on non important stuff when watching a film like looking at the film books show generic characters as more than just ideal vessels which is their usual purpose like in the film to move plot..they don't actually usually matter that much.what they represent from the writing side does..its better to look at characters as numbers and ideals more than people you know...its how you transcend your movie experience
How ironic that the person who was punishing the kiddie fiddler, in the movie would later turn out to be one himself, in real life. Is Se7en now meta?
Mother McCree, your comment just reminded me of that fact. Wow, that does create an entirely new concept of meta. Wow, thanks for this.
People play what they afraid to say out loud.
Last I heard these were all allegations? Especially that kid who lied to a drunk Spacey regarding his age.
Analyzing Male Slavery motnyet but it was a big open secret in Hollywood for a long time. He will most likely not get in much trouble or any trouble at all. I’m sure every one of his victims won’t have a trial. But oj got away with murder and so do plenty of people.
Analyzing Male Slavery it’s not proof homie. I’m saying it’s more likely to be true when there are hella rumors about it already and they have lasted for years. Did I say to throw him in jail? No dude. You must feel real bad ass acting hella aggressively to everyone hahaha. You’re acting like he’s your uncle or some shit, love the fake outrage. Who’s the real mental case here? Hmm.
The real horror is that 7 8 9.
I'd love an Ei8ht and a N9ne. Or maybe some prequels. How about 5ive and 6ix? 4our? Thr3e? ...
Tw2?
@@mikecunningham4682 thr3e sounds good.
Oh no, no, no, he didn't! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Ugh. Bad puns
I think that the most brutal part of John's psycopathy, is when Kevin Spacey broke the script when the reveal that David Mills was going to be a father happened, he was supposed to say "Oh you didnt know" while talking to Mills, but he turned to SUMMERSET. and said to HIM ''oh.... he didnt know" just... incredible
I couldn't believe how Doe was so smug and gleeful to have added so much more unexpected pain to Mills... the EVIL of it was overwhelming! Can you imagine getting joy out of utterly ripping someone's world apart!?? I know there are truly people that evil but I just can't imagine HOW! I almost cry just for accidentally hurting someone's feelings.
I still remember being physically affected by the ending. My heart rate rose at the point where Pitts character comes to the realization of what's in the box.
I was 18 I think. I hadn't reacted to a movie in this way since I'd watched Aliens at the age of 10
Fincher is one of those very few directors that make films that are not only unsettling in a stylish way but become so well embedded in your psyche that you _never_ forget both small details and the overall film, demanding repeated views.
Probably not the best video to watch while eating, but hey
😂
that's business babey
Indeed! My melon had to wait.
Just munched some delightful stewed tomatoes... ;D
Absolutely love this film - you focused a lot on sloth but the lust murder is what gets to me. Leland orser COMMITTED to that scene and it shows
He later plays the same panicked victimized victim in another movie “Alien Resurrected “
10:24 I see that Game Grumps shirt behind you. I already respected you a ton before but now it's on a whole new level. Keep doing what you're doing bud, we all love it.
Fight Club might be my favorite Fincher movie, but this is one of very few movies that makes me feel anxious and tense everytime I watch it. Perfection
“What the fuck am I doing with my life”
...Good work.
John Doe made Lechter look like an amateur boy scout.Se7en is a better horror movie than 99% of horror movies. Some of the stuff was over the top, but all technically possible. Sloth is the best jump scare I've ever seen(saw it opening weekend, packed theater and when he sat up the entire room went crazy) For me, lust was the worst, the idea of the guy forced at gunpoint to tear that girl to death...brutal.
Se7en is one of my favorite films, and I'm so glad you're taking a look at it! The way it was filmed gives it a timeless feel, like, if you watched it today you wouldn't be able to tell it was made in 1995, aside from the outdated computers present in the film. But David Fincher really nailed the tone and feel of the film, and the first time I watched it the ending had me blindsided. But the little clues you pick up on repeat viewings enhances the experience.
I love how you kept calling him dr Cox I’d love to see a video about scrubs from you 😂
Hey Ryan, I'd love it if you talked about one of my favorite sci-fi's, District 9.
That would be awesome, Jeremy! It's got my vote! ;)
Interestingly enough, I was just thinking of District 9 while watching this video. Would quite like to hear Ryan’s take on that film.
such an under appreciated film, i vote yes
Yes!
Underrated movie
When you realize that Fincher would be the perfect batman director.
The Sloth victim is by far the creepiest and most disturbing one, thank you Rob Bottin.
My dad wont watch this movie again because of Sloth. He said its one of the only moments that terrified him in a movie, and he cannot forget the haunting nature of that scene.
Ryan I love you; I was just rewatching Se7en today thinking how sad I was you hadn't made a video on it yet, and here you are being amazing again.
Finally talking about a movie I have already watched!
Not related to the video, but I just wanted to say your channel is one of my favorites on UA-cam, keep up with the good work!
This has to be my favorite in-depth movie discussion channel. Your style of presentation is genius and unique! Thank you!
10:02 that "thinks outside the box" combined with the box from the movie was pretty clever. Nice one!
as i watched seven and i eventually got gist of the deaths and expected to see death/gore in a macabre way, my eyes were still unprepared as each death came forth, but yet it was so hard to look away.
(love the weekly vids, always look forward to watching!)
Also cool how after we feel like we’re prepared to look at the next grisly image, the next kill (lust) makes us imagine how the body looked like, all in our heads. David Fincher you sick fuck.
Ryan is killing it with the amount of content lately!
Literally one of my favorite movies of all time, the suspense and horror combination is one of the greatest ever put to film.
I like that they didn’t show the acts being done... We’re with the Detectives in the story. We assessed the situation just as the Detectives did, by looking around and thinking.
Probably my favorite movie of all time, and if not, it’s absolutely in my top three
Ryan, I am always so amazed at your writing in these essays, everything is so well said and structured! You must have had a really good Grade in English class
Is this the movie where he's like *_"WHAT'S IN THE BOX??"_*
You make incredibly well written and edited video essays and I appreciate you
Ryan, I think this may be your best video yet.
His videos have been steadily getting better over time. He's definitely in the groove, for sure! :)
To say Se7en got under my skin is an understatement. It was incredible, and I won’t ever watch it again.
Seven was a break through film, it inspired a lot of film makers.
I haven’t seen this junior high. I was obsessed with Sloth.
I have mixed feelings about this video. On the one hand there are some fascinating fragmentary insights about the film. On the other hand, I cannot figure out what this essay is actually trying to argue. I'm sorry, but the argument, if there is one, is buried beneath too many sentences with peculiar syntax and lots of vague, airy abstractions.
But hey, I'm a dummy and probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
Could someone please summarize the argument for me in a sentence or two?
Frank McManus the movie challenges our perceptions of “realism” and “meaning”
I agree with you, tbh. This video is over-analysis to the point of incoherence.
There's a comment above by @Alex Furnas which I feel is a clearer explanation.
He’s usually coherent and precise but this video was all over the place , in my opinion
I tend to agree. I like Ryan, he seems to love his craft with a passion. but in this video particularly he broached a subject that maybe cant be argued effectively in 11 minutes, leading to a more fragmented analysis than it should have been.
Let's just say the line "WHAT"S IN THE BOX?!?!?!" will always remain with me
jeez, I'm early! Ryan, I love your videos! Cheers from Croatia, brother!
I ADORE this movie. It was my favorite when I was young, and influenced my writing to a massive degree. That sense 'f "this feels real, even though it's unbelievable" is something I try my hardest to use in the atmosphere of my own fictional worlds. It's so mystifying, and creepy. Yet not overwhelming and depressing as most "realism" seems to be.
Well, found my favorite video of his. I swear, these keep getting better!
Se7en is the only film that has ever truley terrified me. Sloth and lust specifically cost me about two weeks of sleep. I've only been able to watch it one time. It's an incredible film, but i don't know if I can ever watch it again.
you should watch "i saw the devil"
and please watch the korean movie by that name as its a vastly different film from the american one (different script. just same title)
its about a man losing his family in a car crash and he decides to take revenge on the person who did this
thats all im gonna say
One of my favorite films! That film is the reason I love Korean movies
One of the worst korean movies I have ever seen, try writing in paper the acts and you will see how stupid it is. Filled with "revenge porn", pretty girls getting killed and raped with angles made to show the scene as sexy even with the one who is a kid. The cop is an idiot, the movie too long, if you are smart enough the end can be guess after an hour. Try The revenge trilogy.
@@PalitoSelvatico Or Bedeviled. It's one of those times when rooting for the revengeful party is entirely legit and it's played with the hopelessness the entire situation requires.
I just watched seven for the first time after being aware of it for years. I knew about the 'whats in the box' bit and for some reason I'd always thought it was like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction, and you never found out what was in it. So leading up to the ending I was a bit disappointed, thinking to myself it'd be so much better if we actually found out what was in there. God I was satisfied.
Help. I can’t stop binge watching your videos. Quality content.
One of my five most fave movies of all time. Brilliantly acted. Brilliantly written. Kevin Spacey was both insane and a genius at the same time. Pitt had some classic lines. And Morgan Freeman was his usual awesome self!!!!
SE7EN is a movie that I absolutely love, but only rewatch sparingly, because I want to let myself forget as much of it as possible for my next rewatch. The fact that it plays so well with realism and surrealism just makes those horror moments truly horrific.
Such a good crime horror, with a good twist at the end
Always great videos dude. Really loved this one though, SE7EN is one of my all time favorite movies. The performances are amazing, the cinematogrpahy is perfect, the writing, all of it. Just an exceptional movie and your breakdown of it was just as good.
Keep creating dude, always look forward to your uploads.
I am so happy every time you uploaded a new video you truly put a lot of passion in them I hope you go far much love!💗
I love listening to Ryan Hollinger talking about horror movies! I consider myself a smart person but some of the stuff he says is on another level. I honestly can't get enough of his movie breakdowns! Keep up the great work bro,was so happy you finally did one of my favorites last week 'The Ruins!'
Fantastic work once again Ryan. :o
I love it.
👏👏👏
When he coughed my soul left my body for a second
Yes! Great to see you cover Seven, as it's one of my favorite thrillers.
Try thinking outside the box... while others have their heads stay inside the box, quite literally ;)
Love your videos Ryan, especially your choice of movies (thank you for making me watch some I did not see yet, "Ghost Stories" e.g.)
What I love about the film is you never know what city it takes place in, the weather which is constantly dull and raining changes to a sunny day in a sand environment juxtaposes the climax of the film
Thank you for the fantastic analysis Ryan. Since you delved into the thematic complexities of the film, I’ll just extol the virtues of the film from an aesthetic standpoint. There are few 90’s films that have visually aged as gracefully as Seven. Maybe I can chalk that up to the fact that the film is set in an undisclosed year and city. If it weren’t for the scenes that were shot in the Bradbury building, I’d be hard pressed to tell it was Los Angeles. The opening title sequence alone sparked countless imitators and for good reason. Had someone else helmed this film, it could’ve very well have been a run of the mill police procedural. However, in Fincher’s hands it’s just cinematic gold.
Ryan my man, you've been pumping ou video after video. Don't forget to take a break or space the videos more out.
Hi Ryan, signed up on Patreon. I have dedicated a small amount each month to support the channels I watch the most. Thanks for all the great content.
No matter how many times I’ve seen this movie I still enjoy it like it’s the first time
A wonderful analysis like always!! I also couldn't help but compare Somerset and Will Graham from the Hannibal series, as they are both criticized and ridiculed for approaching serial killer logic not as ridiculous, but with the same value as any other point of view. Can't wait to see what other horror genres you analyze!! Keep it up!!
What an insightful thought!
I recently started binging your channel. i love horror movies so much and your discussion really have me looking that them in a new and interesting way. you've talked about 'it follows' a couple times, but i don't see a full video on it. it is honestly one of my all time favorite underrated horror movies. i would love to see you do a full piece on it.
SE7EN is my favourite Fincher film (followed by Fight Club) and my all-time favourite film. Panic Room is so underrated and largely forgotten about, sadly. Zodiac and Gone Girl are excellent, and I make no apologies for still loving Alien 3 and it's wonderful bleakness. I just saw The Killer and loved it, and The Game is unappreciated as well. His other works are lower down the pole than the ones I have mentioned for me, but are still great, including his TV work. I still haven't seen Mank though.
Excellent video, much appreciated.
By far in my top 5. I will never truly know how a film can be this disturbing without actually showing us much at all. Pure brilliance in my opinion!
This was also one of my first exposures to horror as a child.
Did anyone else silently yell "DETECTIVE!!!" to themselves when he showed the clip of Kevin Spacey with his fingers wrapped in the police station?
When I first saw Seven at the movies, at a very dangerous movie theater in New York City's Time Square, I had originally had this thought that John Doe played by Kevin Spacy, was not a psychopath, but an angel testing Brad Pitts characters sanity, and his threshold to sin. John Doe was a Lovecraftian existential angel to show us what we become in a mad world, Summerset passed that test years ago, and Brad Pitts flawed character was now taking the test, his cynicism along with bits of wanting to believe brought him down to the slippery slope of existentialism, and self-realization, and madness, yes The Lovecraftian angel. Like a moral version of singularity
when getting sucked down a black hole!
That would explain how he was able to mail a severed head while wearing a bloody shirt and not rouse any suspicion.
@@khartog01 was just a symbolism in itself, the way he holds his hands open with the bloody shirt in the bloody hands, or you could just see you as another victim of lovecraftian Terror that just passes it on
Se7en introduced me to the world of David Fincher. Watched it when I was a kid, thank you awesome film obsessed family, and I still adore it. But OMFG I had no idea about Dr Coxs!!!! Know this film almost line for line and had no idea!!
I genuinely went on UA-cam going Ryan hollinger better have a new video or am coming off then this was the first video in my recommended
Another great movie choice, Ryan. You keep making these videos and I'll keep watching them.
Gone Girl is my favorite Fincher movie by far.
BTW the glasses work for you, Buddy.
It's quite a thing to ponder, in hindsight, why Spacey was so good in these roles.
Love your videos I always look forward to seeing the notification pop up
Loved the atmosphere of the movie...and that ending....
You have now made me go want to watch Seven in full
I remember watching this for the first time and feeling like I was falling down a rabbit hole
Have you seen Mindhunter on Netflix? Fincher is a producer and directs several episodes. I am in my second watch through of S. 1 and am loving it. So, so good.
It's such a great series!!! I can't wait for the second season!
Your point of us as an audience accepting those gruesome and dark themes to be our reality and what life and the world is really resonates with me on so many levels, I mean it seems to be a good thing to be stressed out, depressed and burnt out nowadays, almost as if this is what gives our life true value. I wonder why that is? On the other hand you have polished Instagram accounts that are said to be pretended happiness and 'fake'. What a bizarre state we are in as a society. Anyone with me?
In my opinion, Se7en is fincher's best directed movie, especially visually. I'm not sure who the cinematographer is, but I think Se7en is a masterclass in how the visual style and feel of a movie can not only enhance, but go beyond even the dialogue and acting, to convey a sense of despair, dread, and doom. It's a reflection that truly is I here t in late capitalism.... Nothing to live for, nothing to die for.
I absolutely love the atmosphere, my only gripe is that I wish it was a little lighter, as in physically, I watched this in a pitch black room with my brightness at 100 and it was just hard to see
I love the use of the Atlantis sountrack, it provokes an ambiguous feeling
Tbh I identified with Somerset WAY more than Mills. Somerset was an albeit jaded professional who claimed to be apathetic but clearly cared for people through the painstaking labor he put into solving cases. Mills, however, felt like a petulant teenager throwing tantrums everytime he was asked to do a little more work than he was expected to do or anytime his ego was challenged. He claimed to care, but then only threw around slurs and screamed at people whenever he got the chance
Detective Somerset? Is he finding out where the all the missing cider has gone?
?
@@5Detective Just search up Somerset in England
You called him "Dr Cox" 😄 love it!
Can you talk about Donnie Darko? (Or even further, the two versions compared?) I would love to see your take on this. (NOT S. Darko)
I always felt it was about urban and moral decay in our modern age. Which at the time it was in theaters was the mid 90s when NYC wasn't remotely cleaned up yet and the memories of Grimy cities were still fresh in most minds.
I love that I'm not the only one that will forever know/refer to him as Dr. Cox.
I always thought it'd be funny if brad was pardoned by the president after the movie ended.
Absolute deflation.
As far as I know(watched it a couple weeks ago) he actually was pardoned, due to it being a crime of passion/heat of the moment type deal, and it's slightly more apparent when Morgan Freeman tells the guys hauling off Brad Pitt to "take good care of him" so I believe that he's actually pardoned, but fired from being a cop, and receives treatment for psychological reasons(obviously)
Yeah, no jury convicts him. DA wouldn’t push for “death row all the way”.
Far from a happy ending (probably spends rest of his life in a psych ward) or pops himself.
I don't think it wouldn't have mattered much, to be honest.