Analyzing Evil: John Doe, From Se7en
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- Welcome everyone to the fifteenth episode of Analyzing Evil! Our feature villain for this video is John Doe from Se7en. I hope you enjoy, and thanks for watching. If you have any feedback or questions feel free to let me know below!
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#JohnDoe #Se7en #DavidFincher - Розваги
Analyzing Evil: Kevin Spacey
Exactly.
Innocent until proven guilty.
@@Ryokohbi he literally admitted to it lol
@@Donniedark60 source
@@Donniedark60 Has he?
Fun fact about the Sloth death, the actor playing the SWAT cop who leans in to check on the guy didn't know it was an actual actor, he thought it was just a dummy. So his frightened reaction was real.
Man, that guy could have had a heartattack.
Is this fact
@@JinxMarie1985 This is fact.
Fck, imagine you get offered to play "a guy so fat that he dies in the movie"
Woah thanks for sharing that! That's great 😆
Never has a villain with so little screen time made such an impact
Johan Liebert.
Hannibal Lector.
Ok, who's next?
Palpatine before the prequels
Sauron
Don Barzini
The Joker (Dark Knight)
@@PalladinPoker joker had loads of screen time bruh
@@benc77 he did? my bad.
EDIT: checked, 33 minutes isn't much in a 155 min film.
Brad Pitt's acting in the last scene is mind blowing. You can see his character's struggle unfold from his futile attempt to not succumb to his need for vengeance through to it's violent fruition. Very well written and directed too. Once he sees his dead wife's face in his mind's eye we all know he's lost the struggle even before he fires the first shot.
Ya but that “oh god” part was really bad compared to the rest of his acting in the movie
As another psycho villain once said,
“This is what happens when an unstoppable force (Mills) meets an immovable object (John Doe).”.
Mills spent the whole movie trying to get answers through force, yet in the climax when he meets his own match, he just didn’t know how to control himself anyone.
The part that bugged me the most about that last scene and still does to this day is...Why in all that is Holy, would Brad Pitt's character shoot John in the head first giving him a quick painless death? All the people he tortured and killed, including Brad's own wife, then all the mocking and goading, surely you would put a bullet in each knee, then his balls, then his gut, maybe each hand, wait a minute or 2 and THEN finish him off with a shot to the head? The result would have still been the same but at least he would have that sweet satisfaction that he made Doe suffer before he died.
No human in that situation would let John Doe off the hook so easily...
@@mariolisa2832 Yeah i just watched it last night stoned and wondered that aswell i mean for a minute there when he was fighting that urge to blast john doe i thought he was gonna start beating him or somthing
what? I thought that was very poor acting when he was like 'Oh mY G0d!?!'
John Doe is able to get a severed head delivered on Sunday while covered in blood without the cops being called on him. Truly impressive.
Maybe he knows some freaky nuns 🤷
FedEx runs Seven days a week.
@@NobodyCaresALot But what strings did he have to pull to get them to arrive at an exact time? That's some demon shit.
@@jameshill2450 he simply in the last has shipped a box to the same location in the past. Perhaps multiples times. Which allows him to assume when the truck will he show up. He doesn't know it will show up. Every phycopath knows that
You mean anyone else calling he cops on him..
I feel like we need an episode on Gustavo Fring
Good suggestion, but I feel like Fring should be worked up to a little. Maybe cover one of the other characters like Hector Salamanca or some of his family?
Maaaaan I loved Gus. Great character
When you look at it, W. W. is the evil one. The unperfect anti-hero?
@@tio5012 oh yeah for sure. Hank was probably the most morally “correct” if that’s even a thing. He was toxically masculine but 100000% correct in the grand scheme of Walt being a murderous egomaniac. And Gus did it for financial reasons which I mean isn’t “moral” but I wouldn’t consider that to be an inherent detriment to character. But Walter killed and made meth completely for ego and had no issue stomping on everyone in his way
This is a great suggestion. Breaking Bad has so many good characters that could be covered
I find this quote by Friedrich Nietzsche so fitting for Jon Doe. "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
Also Baldur's Gate II quote. :-)
Fits more for Brad Pitts character than it does for John doe.
@@manuelavercetti6493no , it's a quote by Friedrich Nietzsche. That was used in baldurs gate.
@@ttree7836 I agree Brad's character is more fitting. What would've been that most fitting is if Morgan's character became wrath. Since Freeman was fighting the good fight for so much longer.
this fits perfectly for him.
John Doe is in the top 3 of most evil characters ever in cinema. Worst yet, he wins. This movie traumatized me back then. Yet I still feel Seven is a film everyone should see. One watching wasn't enough for me.
Just finished watching this like 20 minutes ago it’s 3am and I can’t sleep 😭
MOST DEFINITELY!!!!!
Ironic how Spacey plays another villain that year who wins as well.
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing world he didn't exist."
"And like that, HE'S GONE."
na watch more films
@@vibinwpsilocybin1424 name other characters then
John Doe sees Brad Pitt's character as the innocent in "of human bondage." He is envious of the idealism of the young detective. Morgan Freeman represents realism to him, thus Freeman/Somerset does need to be punished.
Spot on. I also think the book written by William Somerset that is referenced, isn't meant to shine a light on John Doe's philosophy, but on Somerset's. He's a disappointed idealist who has now become a realist, but in the end becomes something of an idealist again by rejecting Doe's way of thinking, which is pretty much the grim 'realism' taken to it's ultimate extreme.
Agreed. I believe that he wants Somerset to bare witness to his works, as he's one of the only people capable of understanding him.
Exactly what I thought, you just put it in to words beautifully
Not sure that Phillip Carey was exactly innocent in the novel, tho. The callousness he showed toward the the women whom he rejected, for the sake of Mildred, who hated him, tells me that he was merely naive and selfish. The suicide of one of the women failed to move him. TBH I think the link between this particular novel and the character is the most tenuous on the list.
Punished for what? I never really understood that, why do people have to live by this “code”, I mean the ridiculous stuff like no sex before marriage and everything, not the reasonable stuff like not murdering someone
I'm intrigued by the fact that John Doe rode a taxi to the police station. He was covered in blood, on both his clothes and his hands, and yet he was able to to take a taxi to his destination. I wonder if this was intended to reinforce how apathy had overtaken the city.
yes...and it wasn't just Apathy that allowed him to do that....
Cab/ride share drivers see that and weirder on any given weekend.
Ok, perhaps that's a bit of hyperbole on my part. But, I used to drive Uber and Lyft. I can tell you without exaggeration that people do strange things and find themselves in outlandish circumstances.
I took people to jail, and picked them back up upon release.
I witnessed drug use, and drug deals, in my back seat.
I suspect I drove a number of abusers to the scenes of their crimes. I know I drove a lot of abused people away from their abusers.
I drove prostitutes from hotel appointment to hotel appointment. I witnessed sex acts - while the car was in motion. I was offered sex acts in lieu of charging the fare for the ride.
I was assaulted by intoxicated passengers.
I drove passengers to the hospital, when they were kicked out of the bars in which they were drinking, and were too incoherent to give me their address.
This is to say nothing of all the hours I spent removing trash, clothing, and discarded possessions (everything from worthless trinkets, to court documents, to sex toys) from my car...
All these things happened with regular people, who otherwise go about their business without raising many eyebrows.
I can tell you straight, a bit of blood and a mystery box might have been a little odd - but not so much it would have raised deafening alarm bells. It's a weird, weird world out there.
@kentgrady9226 money's money, my friend. Even if it's steeped in chaos.
I agree with you and think it is an overlooked moment in the movie.
He could have told the taxi driver that he was injured and that he wanted to report the culprit to the police before going to the hospital
Fun fact : Brad Pitt had genuinely broken his arm plus other injuries on the set while trying to do a risky scene.
Hey Tone'! Imagine finding you here.
@@ArthurKingoftheBritons404 that's a copycat, Ton' was shot from the side of his head
@@Klxisog or was he
@@rx_josh Moe Greene special
He didn't break his arm, exactly. During the chase scene, when he was going across the rainy, busy street, jumping over cars, he slipped and when he came down his hand went through a car window and his hand got deeply cut, pretty much down to the bone.
14:25 -15:05
Fun Fact: Director David Fincher actually found someone, who somehow took the time, beforehand, to write many of those notebooks, just to be seen for mere seconds in the movie and have a credit moment for themselves in the end credits. And if you look carefully at some of those pages, the person clearly put in a lot of detail.
:) love details like that. Shout out to the book person 👍👍👍
I swear to god I heard that David fincher and a buddy sat there writing all those notebooks and stuff ? I’m probably wrong lol
People like this absolutely exist, and that's more terrifying than all the monsters of human fiction.
Where? Can you show me one? Just one, that's all. Thanks!
@@LeatherCladVegan the Zodiac Killer, the Vampire of Düsseldorf, Jack the Ripper, Il Mostro Di Firenze, Ted Bundy and the really good ones are obviously not known since they are that good at comitting murder
@@Ehrenhaider_Akainu No offence but those are serial killers. John Doe's whole point is that he is not just another serial killer, but that what he has done in the film is incredibly special. He is not just Denis Rader with a penchant for scrapbooking.
@@LeatherCladVegan I’m here in my room
@@thenero9493 Lol.
I've always wondered why John Doe hid his note behind the glutton's fridge. He obviously wanted the police to find it, but it seems like almost blind luck that the coroner not only found the floor scrapings, but thought to refer them to Somerset, who then connected them to the fridge. I don't think there was anything like the wife's picture from the Greed scene pointing them where to look.
Also, I wish Se7en had gotten its alternate ending, where Somerset kills Doe for Mills. Doe targeted people who carried their sin in secret: the glutton was a shut-in, the lawyer was working late, the pederast was laying low to avoid the cops, the john was meeting in an anonymous sex club, and the egotistical model isolated herself in her final hours. I think he saw sin as something that cuts people off from not only God, but from each other. His plan assumed that when Mills family was taken away, he'd have nothing left, would be all alone, and couldn't bear to stay his hand. But having Somerset step in at the last minute would have been an affirmation of the core tenet of Catholic philosophy, which I think Doe completely misses; that someone else can step in and make the sacrifice for you. Somerset would be giving up a stellar, unblemished career and cozy retirement for a potential prison term to give Mills another chance. I respect the ending we got, but getting to see John Doe's plan come undone in the final act would have been immensely satisfying.
I've never heard of this alternate ending. It's wondeful. Thank you for sharing.
Considering how much he planned everything, I'm sure he had studied Somerset, knew he would be assigned the case and knew that he would figure it out within a certain amount of time. Like the pederast, they found him exactly 1 year into his punishment and as Somerset no doubt correctly pointed out, he planned this. A bit of luck sure as with all things, they could have assigned someone else, Somerset might have figured it out quicker or slower which would have screwed up his plans.
Imagining Morgan Freeman's character nonchalantly walking away from the severed head and coming back to John and capping the dude right in his smiling face is immensely satisfying, and it would have definitely been an interesting what-if
No the whole film is meant to be a dirty horrible experience a happy ending would not fit right at all IMO
I actually agree that the alternate ending would’ve been a good one as well. Particularly if he shot the guy in the torso, leaving him crying out in pain, said his line “I’m retiring” and then executed him. It would’ve been so satisfying for John to actually be alive and conscious enough to see his plan fall apart at the final hurdle.
I mean the fact God himself was one of the detectives trying to stop John Doe tells us that John Doe was not doing the Lord's work.
🤣🤣🤣
the fact?
@@tristanlanphere7736 Morgan Freeman has played the part of God in a role or two before
LOL
Lmao 😂 they arent in the same world as bruce almighty
John Doe, for me, is one of the most carefully crafted villans which ever will exist. A character with such depth, makes him almost a real person.
ur looking into it too much it isn't that deep
@@tristanlanphere7736Show me one single example of this character being shallow, please.
Quality film Se7en. Still feels pretty fresh 25 years later (unlike that 'Sloth' guy chained to the bed).
In a way what John Doe said. It is still analyzed today.
Chilling isn't it?
Nah that dude is pine fresh 🌲
"fresh"!?? Grayish'ed, rainy piece of film I've seen - well - since 1995...
..was a gloomy TEEN = counts doesn't it? ;-)
@@orarinnsnorrason4614 ..Yup! He would've ♥LOVED♥ Social Media - and #stopkillingMAKEBlog, for sure!
25 years? Fuck
The scariest part about John Doe is that in his own mind he is not Evil but a Vigilante who is willing to accept punishment for what hes done
The most tragic part is the society that we now exist fully in.
@@mrillis9259 evryone sees the evil in others but never themselves. Its a "Do as I say not as I do" kinda world and it feels gross
he is gambling that pitt's character will kill him.
However, Pitt could have easily chosen instead "fight him to the pain" as described in the "princess bride" leaving john to suffer in misery for decades.
But the writers wanted it to end that way so it did.
@@macmcleod1188 Thats the thing about Wrath as a sin. It feels justified. WHen someone cuts your wifes head off after trying to take your place it feels wrong to just let someone else punish him for you. Sins are generally compulsive animalistic behaviors and it wouldnt fit the theme of the movie if Pitt didnt become Wrath by the end
@@jacksypher3403 Sure. I'm just saying that John Doe had no idea what he might be getting himself into and the writer's gave Doe the easy way out.
I guess you are not familiar with "to the pain"...
Wesley: The first thing you lose will be your feet. Below the ankle. You will have stumps available to use within six months. Then your hands, at the wrists. They heal somewhat quicker. Five months is a fair average. Next your nose. No smell of dawn for you. Followed by your tongue. Deeply cut away. Not even a stump left. And then your left eye-"
And then my right eye, and then my ears, and shall we get on with it?" the Prince said.
Wrong!" Westley’s voice rang across the room. "Your ears you keep, so that every shriek of every child shall be yours to cherish-every babe that weeps in fear at your approach, every woman that cries 'Dear God, what is that thing?' will reverberate forever with your perfect ears.”
I someone killed my wife like that, I would make sure they lived as many decades as possible. And I would sleep well at night.
And this is what John Doe was really risking paying as a price.
When ever I look at old movies with Morgan Freeman, he always looks so much younger...while still being an old man. 😂
Because he literally would've been younger in the old movies?!
@@ametrineambrosia4929 nice reading comprehension
You should watch zefrank1's you tube video on Morgan Freeman in which he explains this phenomenon.
@@mikshinee87 😂😂😂
yeah...he was only 635 yrs old then; now I think he's 752...🤔
I admit I find it odd that John Doe would so thoroughly steep himself in Roman Catholic theology and literature but then quote John Milton, a puritan who was thoroughly anti-Romanist.
Could it relate to an awareness of his own hypocrisy, he ultimately is a sinner too, even according to his own disturbed reality?
Interesting. It might be that he is not catholic himself, just aware of its teachings on the sins and decided to use it as guide and inspiration as Sommerset points out during the dinner scene.
I don't really find it odd. Just like how Dante's The Divine Comedy became the template to Christendom's view of Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven, John Milton's works like Paradise Lost became the template as to how Good and Evil within mankind was explained...
Perhaps there's something to read into it, but it's not as though there aren't common philosophical threads between mainline Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. Their disagreements are mostly about ritual, church politics, and ancillary theology and philosophy, but they share a ton of the same fundamental theology, morality, and philosophy. Besides, it's not as though people in general aren't capable of pulling ideas from different sources. That's what intellectually minded people do, and that's certainly what he considered himself to be.
Those are carpenter’s tools. A connection to Christ most likely.
Does a connection to Christ scare people more?
Only to Christian believers huh? Boring to the rest of the world!
Hm. Didn't clue into that. Nice catch!
Well, Christ was supposedly a carpenter so.....
@@franklulatowskijr.6974 And some wood turning tools! 😁
One of the most interesting things about John Doe? In this film, you don't know who he is. You don't see Kevin Spacey's name in the opening credits and didn't know he was in the film until he shows up soaked in blood at the police station. About that, I read that the blood was supposed to be that of Mills's wife. This video today was brilliant- thank you!
In the movie the police chief (I think) says they tested the blood and it was partly the 'Pride' victim's, partly John Doe's own blood from removing his fingerprints and partly from some other, unidentified person.
@@Enzaio I don't think Mills wife blood will show the match if she ain't in the system (no criminal record)
@@MyHentaiGirl Thats probably why the third person (his wife) was unidentified.
Doe is essentially an absolute. You know a variety of the ways he's put together, but the individual is ultimately unknowable. (Stories are good with that.) The blood isn't just Mills' wife, it's the woman from Pride and his own. He has money from who-knows-where and presumably lives in some rep. of New York City where you can obsess over the details of the various bibles to your wicked heart's content. I'm not saying I've done that or anything, but I do try to write and I do think obsessively about things.
No murders yet, God willing.
Well and we’re over halfway through the movie and they seem to be stuck and then John Doe walks into the police station covered in blood. That is not a character introduction that you are in any way prepared for. And before we all knew the truth of Spacey’s life, him onscreen was a HUGE impact. Keyser Soze just showed up and you didn’t even know he was in the film.
Se7en was an adaptation of “The Divine Comedy”… Mills was “Dante”, Somerset was “Virgil”, the “CiTY” was purgatory, John Doe was the “Lord of Light: Lucifer”, each crime scene was a descent into Hell…
How can the city be Purgatory? Dante only entered Purgatory after emerging from the Inferno. There was no way of going backwards. The whole point of Purgatory was that you would stay where you are as a potential candidate for Heaven until you had bettered yourself enough to advance to the next stage.
Lines up pretty well actually. After the ring of Sloth, Dante enters Dis (the “city” of hell) and after the sloth victim the detectives find Joe Doe’s apartment.
The circle of Wrath has a subsection for suicides and Joe Doe does commit suicide in a manner of speaking.
@@royalewithcheese7 ring 5 is anger, which iirc does include sloth and wrath, but the ring with the s*icides is in Violence, ring 7. It's the second section of Violence, to be precise.
I'd say the irony of John Doe's entire plan is that he himself would never reach heaven, as he's clearly delusional in believing that this was a God given mission to him. What he's done is ultimately act as judge and executioner to others, despite being the same sinful person as everyone else. To an extent, he exhibits almost all of the sins within himself through it all, and will ultimately burn in hell. So in the end, there are no winners, only just further proving the utter sinfulness of the entire world. In that sense, John does win by proving his point, but in terms of him "getting away," he was no instrument of God but rather just another part of the symptoms of a sinful world.
He himself admitted that his sin was envy, i was honestly suprised hearing that from him considering how arrogant he is that he deluded himself into thinking that he's god's chosen out of trauma he's suffering from. i'm guessing something horrible happened to his family, which is why he's so emotional and determined about his goal.
He sloth in that he isnt a productive member of society he indulges himself gluttonously with the murders
Is prideful
envious
wrathful
greedy in that he goes too far killing the wife who hasnt done anything even by his warped standards and isnt satisfied with what he has and lustfully rapes her
He only admits to envy but hes guilty of all of the sins
Depends which part of the biblical god your talking about, the new testament and jesus? No he is going straight to hell. The old testament god who flooded the world killing everyone but one family, telling Abraham to take the promised land with force if needed, killing the entire Egyptian army to let moses and his people go free. That god I could see using someone like John Doe.
i think that the vile eye did realize that - he was just saying that last part of the video from doe's perspective.
that being said though, even if im right about this, i dont even think that doe himself thinks that he would go to heaven: hes very much aware that he is sinful, even if his perspective on the matter really fails to show how much of a fucking monster he is, and given his knowledge of catholic literature, i think he understands that while every case does require context, murderers generally dont get to go to heaven. not even for what he believes his cause is, because if he doesnt believe that the people he killed or fucked over didnt have a chance to be forgiven, then why would God give him a pass?
Exactly well written and is actually part of what I use to say to people when they say “oh if god exists why does bad things happen?” Bad things have been created as a result of unchecked appetites of desires from the hearts of wicked men in powerful places.
I don't believe John Doe read the Marquis de Sade for any form of sexual release, and I don't think he derived sexual gratification from his work--not consciously, at least. John Doe is an expert on sin and virtue, as you stated. It seems more likely that he read de Sade simply to get a better understanding into the mind of a reprobate--someone who is too far entrenched in sin to ever be redeemed.
The key to understanding John Doe is in knowing that he is a believer: he truly believes that what he is doing is the right thing. Doe is certainly self-righteous, since he's placed himself above mankind as its judge, jury, and executioner of the sentence... but he also, by and large, judges himself by that same standard. His interest in a book by de Sade, I think, could only apply to the scholarly aspect of his work, imo.
Another interesting detail is that Doe is probably guilty of many if not all of the seven sins, to some extent--as most people are. We all experience pride, lust, envy, greed, etc. But Doe is not the embodiment of any one sin, other than envy... which is what he judged himself for. Although Doe was prideful, the girl he punished for pride was, in his estimation, the apotheosis of pride, just like the gluttonous man was the embodiment of gluttony, the lawyer the embodiment of greed, etc.
Very good stuff. Enjoyed it. Happy holidays.
I think determining yourself as God’s chosen punisher would be the embodiment of pride.
@@chrisstans9606
John Doe is prideful, without doubt... but the argument can be made that his belief that he's "God's chosen" falls under the umbrella of insanity as opposed to pride.
Either way, he's not so prideful that he wouldn't be able to live if he was disfigured, like the girl who's nose he cut off. And, indeed, he was right about her.
I think John Doe would have called an ambulance rather than commit suicide over a severed nose, which is what made her the embodiment of pride... while Doe is only prideful. There's a huge difference there. Doe sought out people he considered the embodiment of a particular sin in order to teach--or preach--a specific lesson.
Calling The Marquis DeSade “irredeemable”? He advocated for many liberties and freedoms through his works and criticisms of society and religion. He was a pervert but his works were noble and intelligent.
@@SlitWristMisfit_
Yeah, irredeemable in the eyes of the church of de Sade’s day. I, personally, don't mind if someone wants to live the life of a libertine... as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.
And, I have to say, I do think de Sade might have been guilty of hurting other people? I draw the line at abusing children. De Sade isn’t exactly someone I would lift up as a role model, but you can debate that one with yourself. I'm not sure if that makes him irredeemable or not, but the church of his day would probably have labeled him a reprobate--someone who is damned, aka irredeemable.
That... and Envy. He admits to being envious, so he envies Sade for his sins.
Definitely one of the best detective thriller villains. Solid Se7en/7
You cornball 😍
AYE nice.
The fact that "Babe" (Movie about a cute pig) was nominated 7(!) times [won 1] and this masterpiece was nominated once [which it didn´t even win] tells us all there is to know about the Academy and bloody Hollywood
Bruh I just heard of this movie about 4 days ago on someone "top 50 favorites". Truly the best things are underrated and understated.
I guess they're sentimental and squeamish.
This movie should have got more nominations for sure, but don’t diss Babe that movies awesome!
why do people hate hollywood so much jeez
@@Jspore-ip5rk did someone just say se7en is understated? literally everybody talks about
There's something about religious themes in horror, thrillers or crime movies that fascinates me. Admittedly it's often done in an edgy shock-value way (or just as a lazy villain motive) but when it's done _well_ I find it genuinely chilling.
Cults are terrifying there usually they work well in horror movies. Midsommar is a good example.
The Mist's Ms Carmody was a good example. She was self righteous and over the top but it felt real.
If there was every an instance where a plea of temporary insanity would prevail in court, it would certainly apply to Detective Mills killing John Doe, who taunted him mercilessly about the grisly details of the murder of Mills' wife until he got him to snap.
26:55 "He even went so far as to plan a head"
Mm hmm...
lol - good catch. I missed that.
"The Devil will quote scripture to further his own ends." Old Proverb.
In many ways John reminds me of the character of self-appointed Reverend Harry Powell, played by Robert Mitchum in "Night of the Hunter", seemingly a pious and engaging minister with a greedy, sadistic and misogynistic personality who quotes "The Lord" to further his serial killings. Then there's a scene where he is blocked by an elderly woman of powerful true faith and it's implied that he's been talking to the other "Lord" all this time....
Se7en was far more scary/disturbing than any horror movie I’ve ever seen cuz all of the stuff in the movie is possible in the real world
Others I'd recommend:
Keyser Soze from The Usual Suspects
Daniel Plainview from There will be Blood [I WILL DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!]
Lee Woo-jin from OldBoy
Cathrine Tremell from Basic Instinct
Alex Forrest from Fatal Attraction
Amon Goeth from Schindler's List
Good suggestions. I'd also like to see Lou Bloom from nightcrawler.
Lee Woo-jin sends shivers down my spine, that sick bastard.
Amon Goeth is not a fictional character, though.
@@Groovy_Bruce True, however they did take liberties with his character in the movie.
Catherine tremell would be a good one
I would love to see more about John Doe. Please analyze the comics, too!
🤖+🐼 = lol!
@@chaosdweller The fuck?
I don't think I've ever seen a more fitting representation of Purgotory than Se7en's city. A nameless sluggish hellhole where nothing is ever completed, and nobody is ever satisfied, where light and good is drowned out and passion and ascension cannot exist
An interesting tidbit about the notebooks in the scene: someone who worked on the film actually hand-wrote all of those notebooks with full intent to make them just a pure stream of conciousness style of writing. Someone actually filled those notebooks with madness just for the authenticity of the props.
You can feel his presence throughout the film. They clearly took some inspiration from Exorcist 3, why wouldn't you? That film is underrated as hell. And later we got some films that took from Se7en like Resurrection which is a hidden gem, worth checking it out. Its lord Raiden vs a twisted dude who wants to resurrect God.....well, there can be only one.
The Exorcist 3 was Jeffrey Dahmer's favorite movie and he watched it before going out to kill. It was awful.
Exorcist 3 was a strange film ...but it was very good.
Didn't even know there was an Excorcist two let alone three. Is it the same priest? The Devil must be pissing himself that this guy keeps flexing on him lmao.
@@Revelations-hr9fg avoid Exorcist 2, it's an abomination. Part 3 is really strange like you have a Joker statue in one scene. Let's not forget the dream sequence where it looks like it's in a mosque with Samuel Jackson there.....wtf. The highlight is Brad Dourif, he's just incredible. And you get a famous jumpscare scene.
@@Revelations-hr9fg the thought of the devil unable to hold his ..or hers bladder makes me laugh
David Mills: Wait, I thought all you did was kill innocent people.
John Doe: Innocent?! Is that supposed to be funny? An obese man... a disgusting man who could barely stand up; a man who if you saw him on the street, you'd point him out to your friends so that they could join you in mocking him; a man, who if you saw him while you were eating, you wouldn't be able to finish your meal. After him, I picked the lawyer and I know you both must have been secretly thanking me for that one. This is a man who dedicated his life to making money by lying with every breath that he could muster to keeping murderers and rapists on the streets!
David Mills: Murderers?
John Doe: A woman...
David Mills: Murderers, John, like yourself?
John Doe: [interrupts] A woman! So ugly on the inside she couldn't bear to go on living if she couldn't be beautiful on the outside. A drug dealer, a drug dealing pederast, actually! And let's not forget the disease-spreading whore! Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face. But that's the point. We see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it. We tolerate it because it's common, it's trivial. We tolerate it morning, noon, and night. Well, not anymore. I'm setting the example. What I've done is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever.
David Mills: Delusions, John.
You can say what you want about Spacey but you can't deny the man is an acting pro
John Doe being the perfect example of the unassuming "grey man". How about "Machine" from Joel Schumacher's 8mm?
"I do it because I LIKE it" 😏
John Doe is DEFINITELY "gray man"!!!
I like to think that John has some connection to Mills. Particularly the story Mills tells of how he killed someone but can’t remember, the guy’s name. That would make the guy Mills shot, a “John Doe.” Or maybe I’m reading into it too much.
I do think you're onto something. While I doubt that Kevin Spacey is intended to be the man that Mills killed, it is interesting that Mills killed a John Doe, only to be targeted and stalked by another.
@@adulescentuluscarnifex8412 right? I thought maybe I was looking into shit, way too much. (Although that’s debatable when the movie is this good,)
I've always thought there was a special significance to that scene where Mills can't remember the name of the guy that was shot. Normally you'd think that a person seeing a traumatic and disturbing scene such as a shooting would easily recall the name of the victim even after a long while. Those memories would be seered into memory. But to Mills it was unintentionally forgettable as if it were just another day on the job. He realizes he should remember the name and berates himself for not recalling it - so he seems to understand the meaning and impact of his forgetfulness. I wish Somerset's character had vocalized his own thoughts and insight at that moment - instead we were left to come up with our own interpretation of Morgan Freeman's facial expressions.
@@SilentKnight43 right? The scene must have some kind of point besides establishing Mills’ character as being inattentive or forgetful. That was established when he asked an officer to buy him those Cliff notes books. I guess it could be used to establish Mills’ sin as wrath. John Doe could have learned that when he bribed the police for information. I can’t remember if Mills killed that guy in self defense or not. I mean, it’s not a sin to kill someone, but it is a sin to murder someone. Maybe the movie is implying that Mills unjustly murdered the man which is why John Doe targeted Mills and not Somerset. Or maybe John Doe picked his name to sort of troll and annoy Mills. Maybe it’s a coincidence and I am reading into too much. Still, very interesting to think about what the meaning of that scene is (the scene with Mills talking to Somerset about the shooting). Still, it’s great people are still dissecting the movie.
@@violatorut2003 Good points and insight. It's just one of those movies that can be dissected and interpreted in multiple ways. David Fincher is a very intelligent director and incorporates a lot of small detail in many of his scenes.
John Doe is such a realistic character that in some ways he's only technically fictional.
Actually he isn't real at all, he was invented by a guy.
And that's why people kinda love him.
@@bremensims6086 Yeah, he was invented by God.
Rich Pryor and God invented by men
@@DefenestrateYourself and men invented by crabs
I just want to say thank you for putting your talent in analysis & writing, out into the world.
The creepiest thing about John doe is that he's played by kevin spacey 👀 even more so now that he's been exposed. In my mind this is the guy he turns into after he's pushed out of hollywood.
Wait... you people thought i was normal? -Kevin Spacey probably
Explains it why the character was convincing. Takes a degenerate to portray one. It wasnt acting.
@@Andytlp that's a pretty slippery slope. So every actor who's ever portrayed a scumbag or villian is a bad person irl?
@@Jeremy-hx7zj I was half joking but with john doe there doesnt seem to be an actors veil if such thing exists. What i mean? It didnt feel at any point like it was an act. Take gary old man for example and when he plays asshole villain. The performance is great but you can tell hes acting. The closest opposite i can give you is keanu reeves. That guy has a thin character of whatever hes doing so you mostly just see him play a thin veiled character but its just always keanu. I think spacey drew from his life experience to give such a convincing performance that my bullshit meter didnt even register. If allegations are true then something has happened to him in early childhood possibly. its all very sad. For this to apply to other actors they have to have dirt on them made public.
He was never found guilty . Stop trying to shun those that haven’t been found guilty
That didn't age well😂
This is unsettling, yet oddly captivating.
As much as I hate the meme that mOvIeS tHeSe dAyS aRe wRiTteN bY mOrOnS fOr MoRoNs--since there are some decent, intelligent films still being made (mostly by studios like A24 and Focus Features), but even I can't imagine a modern writer going into as much detail as Andrew Kevin Walker did when he wrote this script. And to think he was working at a record store when he wrote it; I would've guessed he was a University Professor or something. The man is breathtakingly well-read.
A24 is the only studio that makes beautiful movies. It such a shame that these sorts of movies are now rare
Best movie ever! Still watch it a couple times a year. Also 8mm, miss the dark 90’s movies.
i feel like there's this subtle diversion that the movie made the audience into thinking that the sinner of Envy is
going to be Somerset as there is a little envy in him towards Mills' life; like he's alone and Mills has a wife, Mills would soon be a father unlike him who forced his past lover to abort their child which he regrets for years.
Well done. Spacey plays a great villain, I have often thought he taps into his own twisted self for his roles.
Now ..Your saying that in hindsight aren't you ...spacey isn't a serial killer he's a gay man that used his position of power to abuse people ...but let's face Hollywood is built on that shit...I'm not condoning anything he did but people knew what he was doing and because they wanted to get ahead they kept quiet ...there was a 15 year old that he touched up at a party ...what the fuck is a 15 year old boy doing unsupervised at an adult party
@@brendancronin3796 “if she didn’t want to get assaulted she shouldn’t dress like that”
don’t victim blame
@@brendancronin3796 "I'm not condoning it but.."
Yeah, just stop.
@@mangoburster5156 just because someone is " victim " doesn't mean they don't have their share of responsibility
@@mangoburster5156 I believe you’ve misinterpreted what they said. They were stating that people knew what was going on and allowed it to happen. They then questioned why a minor was at an adult-intended party unsupervised, and in that particular environment, which is more an observation towards what was going on and how deeply the depravity went. Yes, they mentioned they weren’t condoning it, which is a weird thing to add to the structure of their statement, but it doesn’t take away from the validity of their observation: It’s not the minor’s fault; it’s the people who allowed the minor to be put in that position.
Analyzing Evil: Dark Knight's Joker
Joker wasn’t evil
Joker bankrupted the mob, and weeded out the corruption in Gotham's DA and police department. I'd say he was actually the hero.
(Although he did have to "break a few eggs to make an omelet")
Analyzing Evil: Some good dude can fly, and he fights crime with his dick. Perhaps he has a magical shield with the American flag painted on it, or perhaps he is half-bat. It doesn't matter. The bad guy tries to be naughty, but the good guy flies across the Universe and stops him. Because he has magic powers. Yay. So engaging. So real. So relatable.
Fuck off with your super-hero shit. You idiots are ruining movies.
@@LeatherCladVegan you ruin shit by gate keeping, I can almost guarantee you haven’t even seen Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy because it doesn’t even follow the traditional sense of the marvel movies you’re bitching about. They feel like crime stories with Batman in them and Dark Knight is really just Joker calling out Batman’s methods for fighting crime as shit.
@@grammernotzi What about the boat scene? He tried to trick people into killing each other, and if they didn't, he'd kill both anyway
It`s impossible for casting to know how amazing of a job they did until recently
The fact that he wanted to be punished for his own sin, and willingly put himself at the mercy of Mills is very scary. He’s completely fearless.
On an aside, Morgan Freeman's Detective Somerset is one of my favourite fictional detectives.
John Doe is a villain who walks a fine line between superhuman/supernatural (Hannibal Lecter, the serial killer in The Poughkeepsie Tapes), and the fallible. He is JUST imperfect enough to be believable, and this is what makes him so frightening, IMHO. Seven is one of those rare films that, for me at least, does not lose its potency with repeat viewings. It puts in me a cold sweat every single time. The ending is among the most brilliant in all cinema. It's a landmark film. To paraphrase John Doe, it will be (and has been) puzzled over, and studied, and followed.
After reading the graphic novels, I felt most bad for the fat man. He was alone, depressed, struggling to lose weight and was the most innocent out of all his victims. The Sloth victim the most cruel yet left him with his life, what little of it he had left if he didn't die from the infection at the hospital. Nothing was really said if he survived or not...
Out of all his victims, the lawyer was the most deserving of his fate.
How are fat people evil? Choosing food out of either enjoyment or as a coping mechanism isn’t what you could consider evil.
Gluttony is a sin because the body is your temple
Idiots in this comment section trying to justify fat hatred as if fat people are all evil for being fat lol. Super cringe.
@@dusanradojkovic8190 That's what decades of religious brainwashing did to older generations. We WILL be better.
@John Barber not all fat people do; their sin is the inability to practice abstinence in the aspect of consumption, so it’s simply the lack of willpower to wield one’s own life as truly one’s own, which, if succeeded in, would be simultaneously contributing to an aesthetically and psychologically beautiful society.
I legit hadn’t thought of the “they had the chance to redeem themselves by practicing the seven virtues” angle before, and Se7en is one of my favorite movies of all time. Good video.
31 mins, dude youre spoiling us! Merry christmas and god bless my man.
I'm sure you'll get the vocal fans yelling "YESS! TIE THE COMICS IN!!": But I'll be real with you, most people won't care about that video as much as they would if you just made another one about a totally different character. Love your videos, can't wait till next time.
BOO! We want the comic analysis!!!
Twu
In my opinion, it seems like Sommerset is Virgil guiding Mills representing Dante. A new cop thats being introduced to a darker world by someone who has experience. Reminds me of the divine comedy. Can even see that the cops are involved but a bit outside of the brutality, again like dante and virgil observing the horror of hell's residents.
I just found this channel. I love the concept. I am a criminology major and this is up my alley for sure. John is what we call a mission killer. He believes that he has a higher purpose. Its a mask he wears to overshadow his apparent psychopathy
Can you please analyze Hannibal Lecter as portrayed by Anthony Hopkins?
I know right? I’m excited about that one! He’s trying to do that analysis soon. He’s doing his research and homework because of the supreme complexity of Dr. lecter. He wants to get everything right. I’m looking forward to this too
@@rawjones6849 if i may be honest, in my personal opinion Mads Mikkelsen's Hannibal is scarier. Because he barely displays any signs of being a deranged cannibal whereas Anthonys performance is to make him feel like a serial killer. I love Anthony as an actor tho.
@@jebaited9612 ikr, mads is way better
YES!!!
@@jebaited9612 I have to 100% agree with you.
A character that I would love to see that is rather minor is major Dieter Hellstrom from Inglorious Bastards
Yeah, I love that character. When I think of the stereotypical arrogant, intelligent, intuitive, 'evil' Nazi SS officer, it's Dieter Hellstrom's face I see.
@@cruddddddddddddddd yeah, I really hope he does it because he's a really underated character and his actor does a really good job but I'm not to confident that he will do a video on him
Minor Major, wasn't he in Catch-22?😂
@@doctorthirteen5727 I meant that his character in Inglorious Bastards was minor
"Klaus Barbi"
Knowing that he likes little boys in real life, makes this so much more creepy and scary.
How appropriate
That's hollyweird
He was never found guilty.
i binge-read the se7en comics a while ago and honestly they're just as good as the movie, so yes please do a video with them!
Suggestion for the next Analyzation:
Daniel Plainview from There will be Blood
not sure, but hasn't he done that one already? think i saw it in the suggestions next to a video
Absolutely. That what i had in mind as well
@@AwoudeX No he didnt
I drink your milkshakes!
I'd like to see that.
I let if he’s necessarily evil but I would say so. Warden Norton from Shawshank would be a good one to analyze.
The ending was pretty unrealistic to me personally. He was crying and pissing himself when the police came for him.
When you master the English language, could you get back to us? Thanks man.
Imagine if John Doe met with John Kramer, how their dialogue will be.
Imagine if john doe met with cosmo kramer.
oh my god. I would pay to see that.
😎✌😇Bro😇✌😎
Imagine bofa
John Kramer probably would have killed John doe
I still say that with all the emotional stress and in light of the staggering loss that detective David Mills suffered, there's no way in hell that he gets prison. A padded cell in a mental ward, perhaps, but not jail.
How about Elijah "Mr. Glass" Price for an upcoming video?
I would love to see you analyze any of the characters from Thomas Harris's works. Hannibal Lecter, Francis Dolarhyde, Jame Gumb, Mason Verger, Vladis Grutas.
That would be awesome
Thomas Harris is My favorite writer. Different writer, but read child 47, the only book I ever read that even comes close.
Thank you! I’ve loved this movie for so many years and watched it countless times, but you pointed out things I have never noticed or thought about.
Man, you got the perfect voice for this. A little James earl jones, little Casey casem, and just the right amount of Paul Harvey.
Excellent analysis, and timing too! I just watched this movie yesterday, for the first time. It was nice to see another person's perspective in detail. Thank you!
Fantastic work on this one. Really glad you let this episode become as long as it is, it would've seemed like a risk to make it over 30 minutes. It totally pays off. It's your depth of elaboration and your constant references from the movie that make this a real heavyweight punch of a character analysis.
It sounds like we're hearing Agent 47 brief/debrief about his targets haha. Badass.
I love how concise your videos are! Very interesting and in depth case study! Awesome video!!
Would love to see Analyzing Evil videos on history’s most evil and vile figures. It would be fascinating to see your take on Mangela, Goebbels, Hitler, Stalin, or Amin. Elizabeth Bathory in particular would be an interesting subject.
I disagree... The vile eye is glorifying intelligent writing and quality filmmaking... Not the evil itself, with real world people, that's exactly what he would be doing. All that scrutinizing and analysis has been done already. Pick up a book and read....
@@jamesthorne7789 I’m sorry that you take issue with my video suggestions. I actually finished a book of short biographies on the likes of Stalin, Hitler, Amin, and Bathory. I have watched several of his videos and find them fascinating. Wanting their take on those individuals means I respect what they do. Stay healthy!
Pretty sure there's no shortage of material on those ppl...
Captain cook he wasn’t so nice
Could you talk about Kevin from we need to talk about Kevin
rewatched it last month, it's so horrible to see
That poor child was doomed from the get go..
@Blunt Bandit 509 I'm referring to the titular character from the movie.
@@SusanKay- Yes, we know better now.
He certainly was committed. The way he closed his eyes in almost prayer to his Lord that he was coming home, right before Mills put a bullet through his brain certainly is telling.
@Ax4 Not necessarily I have prayed in public before whenever we go to a restaurant or because I'm outside enjoying nature
@Ax4 yeah, I mean there is public church temples mosques and synagogues so i don't think "god" if he exists would mind his followers praying in public
@Ax4 I am mostly atheistic but do celebrate some Hindu festivals and sing hindu hymns and if my mother offers me religious food offerings after she prays i don't decline. I am not a douche
@Ax4 i don't blame your intention these are troubling times
@Ax4 lots of misunderstanding and assumptions going on
As one man once said "living is easy with eyes closed misunderstanding all you see"
This is one of the movies I will never forget. It wasn’t necessarily “gory” but it was a film that really made you think. The actors, Freeman, Pitt and Spacey have a real way of showing depth throughout the movies. Probably a masterpiece in my opinion.
Really would love to see Mads Mikkelsens Hannibal. Nice video as always and greetings from Germany!
Since we've just highlighted one iconic villainous role of Kevin Spacey, why not another... Keyser Söze
I really want to give props to you for being one of the rare video essay channels with integrity. Most essayist in my experience extrapolate some personal interpretation and try to invert everything in the source material to fit their argument, while also willfully ignoring anything that might contradict it. You actually treat the source material with honesty and back all your points with logic.
I kinda think that his reading the Marquis work was less about it being part of John's makeup...but he did so for the inspirations for the Punishment for the "Lust" Sin. How that went about would definitely be up De Sade's alley.
Please analyze The Butcher from Gangs of New York.
Not evil.
@@pliit2101 How?
@@spacemarinechaplain9367 is scarface evil or Vito Michael or Sonny evil
The butcher is just a gangster or mob boss
@@jp-re2eu Gangsters and mobsters are definitely evil lmao. Don’t romanticize them.
@@jp-re2eu Yes to all of them. Gangsters are evil don’t buy into that “honor and loyalty” crap.
Damn, this video is amazing, i got so hooked, when I ended watching i didn't even realize that 30 mins passed, merry christmass, and keep up the good work
You’ve truly done an amazing upload on John Doe and done a deep dive into the mystery surrounding his past. All the clues are in the film but here you masterfully put all the pieces of the puzzle together. Brilliant analysis and thanks for your time and effort. You do all the hard work for us. All we have to do is sit back, relax, watch and learn.
Two more things to note in the apartment section:
1. 13:06 his bed also has no mattress. This may be A. because John stripped himself of the "privilege" of comfort because he believes that his work is much more important than his trivial human desires or B. because he's doing penance, because he believes that ALL humans are born with sin, himself not an exception.
2. At 13:00, there's a nice small detail in the fact that John arranged some of the photos/scans in the shape of a cross.
I know manga is not your style, but analizing evil: Griffith from Berserk is my wet dream right now
There's 3 movies that cover the Golden Age arch, don't forget.
And they cover most of the stuff from the original anime and that saga from the manga as well.
I don t think he watches anime but ...
There s a chance
Weeb
@@nasir6r996
Cheese.
Cheese
@Racist Person There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the 1997 anime.
I would be interested in your take on Carrie, her mother, and Chris Hargenson.
That would be interesting. Though too easy.
@@JinxMarie1985 Chris Hargenson yes. Carrie no. There are 3 different ways to interpret her. The book it more clearly, but there's still more than one interpretation.
Good call.
as someone who wrote a criminology essay on why john doe became ‘john doe’ and committed the murders in the films, seeing someone else analyse his character from a complete different perspective is wonderfully refreshing. I love the in-depth the analysis of each of doe’s library books is !
I would love to read your essay
I would totally be interested in seeing your analysis of how these comics could play into the movie.
Great breakdown of the Character. I am very excited for the day I see the upload for Hannibal Lector. Hopefully Mads Mikkelsen's Hannibal
I *just* watched Seven. Hell, yeah.
Throughly enjoyed your thoughtful and well-crafted analysis. Keep 'em coming.
Ledger's Joker and John Doe, two villains who don't need any back story to be effective. I don't need no comic book for se7en to explain it to me.
What's in the box!!!
I love John Doe, he genuinely terrified me for days. I'd find myself awake in the middle of the night thinking "what is my sin?" I would love to see you break down Verbal Kint from The Usual Suspects
the amount work and effort that went into the creation of this video shows that there are still people in this world that take pride in their work and you can see it in every aspect of this video. the editing, the commentary, the research, all must have taken days to compose, compress, and revise. you dont see many 30 minute videos of such quality these days. though the commentator, assuming he is also the creator, may sound monotone or convoluted in his dissection of one of my personal favorite films i must add, you can tell he takes pride in his work and for that i must commend you. thank you for the entertainment.
They sure picked the right actor to play this part. Only a psychopath can truly play a psychopath.